Uh oh...
 

Steve wrote:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...557842,00.html

Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald
Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in
the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be
filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal
investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General
Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior
U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses
committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention
facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

"The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action
to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not
be clearer," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for
Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the
legal action in Germany."

And so it begins. The Germans are not doing this. It all started with a
civil lawsuit filed in Germany the Center for Constitutional Rights.
Yet another American Left Wing hate group.

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/home.asp

In any case, Germany has no such jurisdiction over American citizens
regarding crimes committed in Iraq and/or Guantanamo Bay (an American
base and American territory).

Uh oh...
 

"bmovies" wrote in news:1163188511.583685.214560
@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:

In any case, Germany has no such jurisdiction over American citizens
regarding crimes committed in Iraq and/or Guantanamo Bay (an American
base and American territory).




That's apparently not accurate. From the article, "Germany was chosen for
the court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction"
allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take
place anywhere in the world."

Whether the US recognizes this jurisdiction is another matter.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Uh oh...
 

Scott Seidman wrote:
"bmovies" wrote in news:1163188511.583685.214560
@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:

In any case, Germany has no such jurisdiction over American citizens
regarding crimes committed in Iraq and/or Guantanamo Bay (an American
base and American territory).




That's apparently not accurate. From the article, "Germany was chosen for
the court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction"
allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take
place anywhere in the world."

Whether the US recognizes this jurisdiction is another matter.

--

It is accurate.

Look at that again: "From the article, "Germany was chosen for the
court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction"

I'll narrow it down to the more pertinent point: "German law provides
"universal jurisdiction"

German law.

"German law" does not supercede "American law". The United States is
not a party to"Universal Jurisdiction". Only a few European countries
so far have it (just who conquered who in WWII? :-)).

Germany, among other european countries, cannot just decide it has
"universal jurisdiction" over everyone and everything just like that.

Uh oh...
 

"bmovies" wrote in message
ups.com...

Scott Seidman wrote:
"bmovies" wrote in news:1163188511.583685.214560
@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:

In any case, Germany has no such jurisdiction over American citizens
regarding crimes committed in Iraq and/or Guantanamo Bay (an American
base and American territory).




That's apparently not accurate. From the article, "Germany was chosen
for
the court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction"
allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take
place anywhere in the world."

Whether the US recognizes this jurisdiction is another matter.

--

It is accurate.

Look at that again: "From the article, "Germany was chosen for the
court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction"

I'll narrow it down to the more pertinent point: "German law provides
"universal jurisdiction"

German law.

"German law" does not supercede "American law". The United States is
not a party to"Universal Jurisdiction". Only a few European countries
so far have it (just who conquered who in WWII? :-)).

Germany, among other european countries, cannot just decide it has
"universal jurisdiction" over everyone and everything just like that.

Does the name Noriega ring any bells?

Wolfgang

Uh oh...
 

"bmovies" wrote in news:1163189745.565637.102450
@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:

"German law" does not supercede "American law". The United States is
not a party to"Universal Jurisdiction". Only a few European countries
so far have it (just who conquered who in WWII? :-)).


I'm sure your legal opinion will really help Rummy out should he place foot
on German soil after they find him guilty of war crimes, and they slam in
into EuroGitmo.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Uh oh...
 

In article . com,
bmovies wrote:

Sorry guys. This is a FF channel so let's get our spelling right to
show those non-fly-fishers that we can spell.

It's not 'supercede'. It's 'supersede'.

(for those classicists - sedere, not cedere)

Lazarus
"German law" does not supercede "American law". The United States is
not a party to"Universal Jurisdiction". Only a few European countries
so far have it (just who conquered who in WWII? :-)).

Germany, among other european countries, cannot just decide it has
"universal jurisdiction" over everyone and everything just like that.

Uh oh...
 

Jonathan Cook wrote:
Scott Seidman wrote:

the court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction"
allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take
place anywhere in the world."

I'll have to remember that next time I hear about the
"arrogant" USA imposing its will on other countries...

Come on......tell the truth.......you never actually graduated from
high school, did you?

Wolfgang

Uh oh...
 

Come on......tell the truth.......you never actually graduated from
high school, did you?

Wolfgang

And that's a bad thing because?

Frank "valedictorian with no diploma" Reid

Uh oh...
 

Frank Reid wrote:
Come on......tell the truth.......you never actually graduated from
high school, did you?

Wolfgang

And that's a bad thing because?

Not a bad thing at all.......sorta makes you wonder why he lies about
it, ainna?

Frank "valedictorian with no diploma" Reid

And thereby hangs a tale, no doubt. :)

Wolfgang

Uh oh...
 

"Lazarus Cooke" wrote in message
news:111120060035481460%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid...
In article . com,
bmovies wrote:

Sorry guys. This is a FF channel so let's get our spelling right to
show those non-fly-fishers that we can spell.

It's not 'supercede'. It's 'supersede'.


You want spelling, check this out.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/229556422.html

Did the guy ever go to class?

Uh oh...
 

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:23:54 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


Does the name Noriega ring any bells?

Wolfgang

Still flippin' ticks me off that the US kidnapped him and tried him,
in my opinion illegally, in this country.

Sure, he was scum, but...
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Uh oh...
 

"Cyli" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:23:54 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


Does the name Noriega ring any bells?

Wolfgang

Still flippin' ticks me off that the US kidnapped him and tried him,
in my opinion illegally, in this country.

Sure, he was scum, but...
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Yes he was scum but if I recall, he was 'our boy' was he not? I think he is
in the company of Marcos and Pinochet if memory serves....

john

Uh oh...
 

"Cyli" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:23:54 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


Does the name Noriega ring any bells?

Wolfgang

Still flippin' ticks me off that the US kidnapped him and tried him,
in my opinion illegally, in this country.

Sure, he was scum, but...
--

And IIRC, it was moments before we handed back the Canal. Coincidence? Some
think NOT.

--riverman

Uh oh...
 

asadi wrote:
"Cyli" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:23:54 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


Does the name Noriega ring any bells?

Wolfgang

Still flippin' ticks me off that the US kidnapped him and tried him,
in my opinion illegally, in this country.

Sure, he was scum, but...
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Yes he was scum but if I recall, he was 'our boy' was he not? I think he is
in the company of Marcos and Pinochet if memory serves....

john

Yeah, U.S. diplomacy with respect to Noriega set a number of precedents
that are still paying rich dividends today. The same can be said for
the Shah of Iran, Saddam whatsisname and what would have been called,
in a more innocent (read, just as credulous as today) time, a cast of
thousands.

On the way home from work, yesterday I believe it was, I caught the
tail end of a piece on public radio about an effort currently underway
to clean up unexploded (if you'll pardon the term, bill) ordnance and
mines in Vietnam. You know, that lovely little vacation spot in
southeast Asia that some of you may still remember. More than thirty
years later, the U.S. army (and sundry other organizations) are still
cleaning up that little oops. And guess who is paying for it.

Now, I've got no offspring....or, at least none that I've been accused
of, anyway.....so it doesn't matter all that much to me, but those of
you who have may perhaps take some solace from the fact that yours (or
those who survive, anyway) and theirs will be paying for the current
party in Iraq for at least as long. As a matter of fact, judging by
the phenomenal success of the terrorist recruiting effort the Bush
administration has been waging there for the past few years, you may
rest assured that you great-grandchildren will still be paying for it
(in cash AND blood) while raising there own little broods of canon
fodder.

Furthermore......um.....hm......oh yeah, happy Veterans Day! :)

Wolfgang

Uh oh...
 

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 12:06:07 GMT, "asadi"
wrote:


"Cyli" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:23:54 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


Does the name Noriega ring any bells?

Wolfgang

Still flippin' ticks me off that the US kidnapped him and tried him,
in my opinion illegally, in this country.

Sure, he was scum, but...
--

Yes he was scum but if I recall, he was 'our boy' was he not? I think he is
in the company of Marcos and Pinochet if memory serves....

john


Yes. So many of 'our' allies are scum. Which we find out when they
turn on us or we turn on them. Surprize? Not really. I think we
supported Castro for quite a while, too, while he was in the mountains
and giving us a lever on the truly awful Batista, who was one of ours,
too. I happen to think Castro was one of our better choices, but, for
some odd reason, he didn't like or trust the American government. Go
figger.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli