The Figure 8 Cast
 

I learned a new cast called the Figure 8, some of you may already know this
one. It's used when you have obstruction behind you and throwing big flies
or weighted line when the roll cast just won't cut it. I have also use it
for throwing dry flies as well. For a right hander, I raise the rod to an
angle and make a circular motion counter clockwise in a loop. As the line
comes around, I make the 2nd loop, sort of a sweeping motion on the opposite
side (left shoulder), underneath in a clockwise direction which anchors the
line in the water and loads the rod. I then shoot the line towards the
target. It's a variation of a spey movement, a very pretty figure 8 cast
when done right, but also quite effective.



I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone would
like to share casting techniques, please do so.

fwiw,

-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
I learned a new cast called the Figure 8, some of you may already know this
one. It's used when you have obstruction behind you and throwing big flies
or weighted line when the roll cast just won't cut it. I have also use it
for throwing dry flies as well. For a right hander, I raise the rod to an
angle and make a circular motion counter clockwise in a loop. As the line
comes around, I make the 2nd loop, sort of a sweeping motion on the
opposite side (left shoulder), underneath in a clockwise direction which
anchors the line in the water and loads the rod. I then shoot the line
towards the target. It's a variation of a spey movement, a very pretty
figure 8 cast when done right, but also quite effective.


Isn't this the same cast they called *shadow casting* in the movie, "a River
Runs Through It?"

I generally use the Steeple cast or Sidearm cast, when I have trees or tall
bushes behind or around me. I rarely cast big flies, as my primary rod is a
3/4 weight and I fish small streams in NC.



I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone would
like to share casting techniques, please do so.

I don't know about othere folks, but I tend to use my wrist for casting. Of
couse, I am using a 3/4 weight rod and line, so casting isn't an overly
exerting exercise.

How many of uze guyz use your wrists?

Op

fwiw,

-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Opus" wrote in message
...

How many of uze guyz use your wrists?

Aye.

Wolfgang

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Opus" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
I learned a new cast called the Figure 8, some of you may already know
this one. It's used when you have obstruction behind you and throwing big
flies or weighted line when the roll cast just won't cut it. I have also
use it for throwing dry flies as well. For a right hander, I raise the
rod to an angle and make a circular motion counter clockwise in a loop.
As the line comes around, I make the 2nd loop, sort of a sweeping motion
on the opposite side (left shoulder), underneath in a clockwise direction
which anchors the line in the water and loads the rod. I then shoot the
line towards the target. It's a variation of a spey movement, a very
pretty figure 8 cast when done right, but also quite effective.


Isn't this the same cast they called *shadow casting* in the movie, "a
River Runs Through It?"

Sorry, not even close. I replayed the "shadow cast" that was performed in
the movie "A River Runs Through it" in slow motion, and have also taught
myself that cast. It's used to bring a fish to rise. It's performed by
actually turning the wrist in the opposite direction (facing the direction
of the back cast) with an ever-so-slight haul. Once the line is loaded in
the back, it's brought foward with a long sweeping motion and a front haul.
The fly is very low to the surface of the water to attact the attention of
the fish to rise.

I do feel it's over exagerated a bit, but during that time, slow cane rods
were of choice, and casting a line was a very smooth operation. The line
actually glides slower. I never thought it was ever an advantage until I
started casting bamboo. I've read great dry fly presesnters can actually get
a fish to take the fly in the air before the fly lands. I haven't done this
yet, but I'm working on it.


I generally use the Steeple cast or Sidearm cast, when I have trees or
tall bushes behind or around me. I rarely cast big flies, as my primary
rod is a 3/4 weight and I fish small streams in NC.

3/4 oz in weight?




I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone
would like to share casting techniques, please do so.

I don't know about othere folks, but I tend to use my wrist for casting.
Of couse, I am using a 3/4 weight rod and line, so casting isn't an overly
exerting exercise.

How many of uze guyz use your wrists?

Although I don't prefer it, I've met some pretty good wrist casters. The
only time I use my wrist is at the very end of the cast to flick the tip and
it's almost un-noticeable. What that does it get the line/fly to
straighten out for a soft presentation.
fwiw,
-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Opus" wrote in message
...

How many of uze guyz use your wrists?

Aye.

Wolfgang

We are talking about casting, RIGHT!

Op

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Opus" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Opus" wrote in message
...

How many of uze guyz use your wrists?

Aye.

Wolfgang

We are talking about casting, RIGHT!

Casting.....yes......among other things. :)

Wolfgang

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
Sorry, not even close. I replayed the "shadow cast" that was performed in
the movie "A River Runs Through it" in slow motion, and have also taught
myself that cast. It's used to bring a fish to rise. It's performed by
actually turning the wrist in the opposite direction (facing the direction
of the back cast) with an ever-so-slight haul. Once the line is loaded in
the back, it's brought foward with a long sweeping motion and a front
haul. The fly is very low to the surface of the water to attact the
attention of the fish to rise.

I was just curious, as I haven't used the figure 8 cast, so I thought it
might be the shadow cast. It's been a while zince I saw the movie, and as
best I could remember he used a sort of figure 8 motion. Oh well, not the
first or last time I'll be wrong!

I do feel it's over exagerated a bit, but during that time, slow cane rods
were of choice, and casting a line was a very smooth operation. The line
actually glides slower. I never thought it was ever an advantage until I
started casting bamboo. I've read great dry fly presesnters can actually
get a fish to take the fly in the air before the fly lands. I haven't
done this yet, but I'm working on it.


3/4 oz in weight?

No. 3 weight, 4 weight rod.

Although I don't prefer it, I've met some pretty good wrist casters. The
only time I use my wrist is at the very end of the cast to flick the tip
and it's almost un-noticeable. What that does it get the line/fly to
straighten out for a soft presentation.

Ok, yeah I do use my arm, for longer casts, but most of my action and
presentation come from my wrist, at the end of my cast.

However, on short casts, I will use nothing but my wrist. Or at least I use
to, when my wrists worked :~^ (

Presently, I can't even grip a rod, or a pen for that matter. Tomorrow will
change that, I hope!

Op

fwiw,
-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote


I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone would
like to share casting techniques, please do so.

fwiw,



The two I use most often are the Big Splat Cast and the Tangled Mess Cast
..... I don't have the writing skill to clearly explain the intricate
movements of each, but thankfully, the cast names themselves do a good job
of conveying the results.

The Figure 8 Cast
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone would
like to share casting techniques, please do so.

You can do all of the spey casts with a single-handed rod. It's like
roll casting on steroids. I recommend Simon Gawesworth's video.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The Figure 8 Cast
 

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:40:18 GMT, rw
wrote:

Tom Nakashima wrote:

I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone
would
like to share casting techniques, please do so.

You can do all of the spey casts with a single-handed rod. It's like
roll casting on steroids. I recommend Simon Gawesworth's video.


I'm not sure you can do "all" the spey cast with a single handed rod, but
you can do the majority of them.
Yes, I've met Gawesworth at the Golden Gate Casting Club, and seen his spey
videos, he is indeed outstanding.
The guy who was also fantastic was Hiro Tanaka from Japan who uses a shorter
spey rod. It's actually a 10' lightweight two handed rod. He was very
impressive with a quicker shorter rod.

I have no intentions of ever purchasing a two-handed fly rod, but I do enjoy
employing some of the useful spey techniques to the single handed rod, and
testing them on the river in a real fishing application.
fwiw,
-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Opus"
Presently, I can't even grip a rod, or a pen for that matter. Tomorrow
will change that, I hope!

Op


good luck, best wishes...

john

The Figure 8 Cast
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:40:18 GMT, rw
wrote:


Tom Nakashima wrote:

I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone
would
like to share casting techniques, please do so.

You can do all of the spey casts with a single-handed rod. It's like
roll casting on steroids. I recommend Simon Gawesworth's video.


I'm not sure you can do "all" the spey cast with a single handed rod, but
you can do the majority of them.
Yes, I've met Gawesworth at the Golden Gate Casting Club, and seen his spey
videos, he is indeed outstanding.
The guy who was also fantastic was Hiro Tanaka from Japan who uses a shorter
spey rod. It's actually a 10' lightweight two handed rod. He was very
impressive with a quicker shorter rod.

I have no intentions of ever purchasing a two-handed fly rod, but I do enjoy
employing some of the useful spey techniques to the single handed rod, and
testing them on the river in a real fishing application.
fwiw,
-tom


Tom,

It's obvious you're interested in fly casting techniques and improving
your skills. Just curious as to why you don't think you'll ever buy a
spey rod. FWIW, I doubted i'd ever be interested in spey rods too. With
Sage producing 11' "switch" rods in the lighter weights, it has me
rethinking my position..... I guess once a gearwhore always a gearwhore. ;-)

http://www.sageflyfish.com/default.asp?p=79

brians

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"asadi" wrote in message
t...

"Opus"
Presently, I can't even grip a rod, or a pen for that matter. Tomorrow
will change that, I hope!

Op


good luck, best wishes...

john

Thank you sir.

Hope to get on the water as soon as I remove the neck brace.

Op

The Figure 8 Cast
 

briansfly wrote:

Tom Nakashima wrote:

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:40:18 GMT, rw
wrote:


Tom Nakashima wrote:

I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If
anyone would
like to share casting techniques, please do so.


You can do all of the spey casts with a single-handed rod. It's like
roll casting on steroids. I recommend Simon Gawesworth's video.



I'm not sure you can do "all" the spey cast with a single handed rod,
but you can do the majority of them.
Yes, I've met Gawesworth at the Golden Gate Casting Club, and seen
his spey videos, he is indeed outstanding.
The guy who was also fantastic was Hiro Tanaka from Japan who uses a
shorter spey rod. It's actually a 10' lightweight two handed rod. He
was very impressive with a quicker shorter rod.

I have no intentions of ever purchasing a two-handed fly rod, but I do
enjoy employing some of the useful spey techniques to the single
handed rod, and testing them on the river in a real fishing application.
fwiw,
-tom



Tom,

It's obvious you're interested in fly casting techniques and improving
your skills. Just curious as to why you don't think you'll ever buy a
spey rod. FWIW, I doubted i'd ever be interested in spey rods too. With
Sage producing 11' "switch" rods in the lighter weights, it has me
rethinking my position..... I guess once a gearwhore always a gearwhore.
;-)

http://www.sageflyfish.com/default.asp?p=79

brians

Opps. This link will show you a Switch Rod

http://masl.to/?T57F4525E

brians

The Figure 8 Cast
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

I'm not sure you can do "all" the spey cast with a single handed rod, but
you can do the majority of them.

It's just a rod and a line and a force. One hand or two makes no
fundamental difference. Sure, you can spey cast a lot of heavy line with
two hands and a long rod, but the principle is the same with a light
line, one hand, and a relatively short rod.

Some of the most challenging flycasting I've experienced has been
floating the Middle Fork of the Salmon. It's mostly dry-fly fishing for
cutthroat. The highly structured river typically flows fast and the good
spots are sparse. You have to be able, in a moment, to pick up your fly
and cast to the right spot (usually downstream and toward the bank) with
the right mend. Meanwhile, another fisherman may be casting from the
other end of the raft, so you have to coordinate your backcasts. The
rower has to set everything up. You get one shot per spot, and then it's
on to the next one. Single-handed spey-like casts are really handy in
that situation.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"briansfly" wrote in message
news:FWZdh.622$qh.124@trnddc06...
Tom,

It's obvious you're interested in fly casting techniques and improving
your skills. Just curious as to why you don't think you'll ever buy a spey
rod. FWIW, I doubted i'd ever be interested in spey rods too. With Sage
producing 11' "switch" rods in the lighter weights, it has me rethinking
my position..... I guess once a gearwhore always a gearwhore. ;-)

http://www.sageflyfish.com/default.asp?p=79

brians


Brians,
Sage makes beautiful spey rods, we got to see them in action in San Mateo,
hosting the Sportsman show early this year. Don't get me wrong, I have
nothing against spey rods and in awe when I see a master performing spey
techniques. Last year I hooked and landed a good size steelhead with a
borrowed spey rod, and decided "this isn't for me!" Although I had the
steelie in control, I've felt very awkward probably due to the long length.
I'd much rather land one with a single handed rod.

Steve Rajeff (champion distance caster) designed a 11'6" 8wt. two handed rod
for G-loomis a few years ago. It's very lightweight and can be cast with
one hand, but it still didn't feel as good as a single handed rod, just my
personal preference. Orvis also makes a 107-7 10' 4pc 7wt with an extended
3" butt for $350.oo. I tend to like the fly-rods 9' and under.

Yes I do love casting techniques, but only the ones I could apply in a real
fishing application. My friend however can cast circles around me as
casting comes easy for him. I have to really have to work at it.
fwiw,
-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...
Tom Nakashima wrote:

I'm not sure you can do "all" the spey cast with a single handed rod,
but you can do the majority of them.

It's just a rod and a line and a force. One hand or two makes no
fundamental difference. Sure, you can spey cast a lot of heavy line with
two hands and a long rod, but the principle is the same with a light line,
one hand, and a relatively short rod.

The principle is not the same, however the motion of the rod is the same.
If you cast right handed for a two handed rod or spey rod, the right hand is
just a guide,
while your left hand is your power. A famous Gawesworth saying; "Bring the
cast to the heart laddy!"
Which means bring the bottom hand to the heart to generate the power...just
the opposite principle of the
single handed rod for a right hander, your right hand is the power. You also
need to anchor the line in the water when casting spey.

Some of the most challenging flycasting I've experienced has been floating
the Middle Fork of the Salmon. It's mostly dry-fly fishing for cutthroat.
The highly structured river typically flows fast and the good spots are
sparse. You have to be able, in a moment, to pick up your fly and cast to
the right spot (usually downstream and toward the bank) with the right
mend. Meanwhile, another fisherman may be casting from the other end of
the raft, so you have to coordinate your backcasts. The rower has to set
everything up. You get one shot per spot, and then it's on to the next
one. Single-handed spey-like casts are really handy in that situation.

Agree with the bottom line, particularly executing the snake roll to change
directions.
Another very easy cast I've learned, is let the line drift downstream to
load the rod, and
in one motion shoot it back up stream. I tried to avoid the backcast when
casting
from a raft as we sometimes did in Alaska...the two cast I've mentioned
above works fine.
fwiw,
-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

Another very easy cast I've learned, is let the line drift downstream to
load the rod, and
in one motion shoot it back up stream.

I use that technique quite a bit, especially when casting a heavy fly
with a too-light rod and also when nymphing with a complicated, weighted
rig (to avoid foul-ups when false casting).

It isn't pretty but it works.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote


I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone
would like to share casting techniques, please do so.

fwiw,



The two I use most often are the Big Splat Cast and the Tangled Mess Cast
.... I don't have the writing skill to clearly explain the intricate
movements of each, but thankfully, the cast names themselves do a good job
of conveying the results.


I use those casts quite often myself

Jeremy Moe

The Figure 8 Cast
 

rw wrote:
Tom Nakashima wrote:

Another very easy cast I've learned, is let the line drift downstream
to load the rod, and
in one motion shoot it back up stream.


I use that technique quite a bit, especially when casting a heavy fly
with a too-light rod and also when nymphing with a complicated, weighted
rig (to avoid foul-ups when false casting).

It isn't pretty but it works.

BTW, another similar way to avoid false casting is to let your backcast
fall behind you into the water, and then use drag of the water to load
the rod on the forward cast. Again, not pretty, but effective.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The Figure 8 Cast
 

Jonathan Cook wrote:
Larry L wrote:


The two I use most often are the Big Splat Cast and the Tangled Mess Cast


The real question is, are you skillful enough to combine them?

I'm so good I can make a wind knot without any wind...

The Big Splat Cast can be very effective with terrestrials. The Tangled
Mess Cast has no good use that occurs to me at the moment.

How often have I executed a Tangled Mess Cast and then spent minutes
trying to unsnarl the cluster ****, only to realize that it would have
more efficient to cut it apart and re-rig, and I don't know whether I'll
ever get it undone anyway, but I've invested so much time in it that I
can't quit?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"rw" wrote




. The Tangled
Mess Cast has no good use that occurs to me at the moment.



It's a FAR better fish conservation technique than mere catch and release

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"rw" wrote


The Big Splat Cast can be very effective with terrestrials.


Actually ...... driving the line into the water in a terrible, ugly,
megaSplat way ( not just splatting a hopper ) has one good real world use.
Imagine a very weedy spring creek with narrow ( often a foot or less ) slots
through the emergent weeds in which fish sit and sip. Your goal is to pile
LOTS of tippet slack in that slot but most 'pile cast' variations are hard
to do with any accuracy and accuracy is essential here.

Drive, and with force and gusto, all of the line and some of the leader (
will depend on leader construction ) into the weeds on your side of the slot
.... the rest of the leader will start out tagging along behind this
overpowered mess but then end up passing it slightly and piling up in the
slot as it falls to the water .... the splat from the line won't usually
scare the fish like it would elsewhere because the weedbed absorbs and hides
it from him

The first time I was told about this was by a teenage behind the counter kid
in a shop near Hot Creek ... I though I was being had and could nearly feel
my leg being stretched as it was pulled .... but, nest day after looking
around to be sure no body was there to start laughing at me, I tried it. ...
heah, it works, ...but it's REAL ugly ... I'm pretty sure they didn't use
this on in 'the movie" ( someday I gotta to see it, or read the book )

The Figure 8 Cast
 

---------------------------------
"Larry L" wrote

The two I use most often are the Big Splat Cast and the Tangled Mess Cast
.... I don't have the writing skill to clearly explain the intricate
movements of each, but thankfully, the cast names themselves do a good job
of conveying the results.
Indian Joe adds--you forgot the low limb and rhododendron grab cast
which are strong parts of my repertoire. Both are often used when I miss
setting the hook .

The Figure 8 Cast
 

rw wrote:
The Tangled Mess Cast has no good use that occurs to me at the moment.

I find that as darkness settles in and I'm close to being a bit too far
from the jeep for a safe and reasonably speedy streamside bushwack
back, the Tangled Mess Cast is effective at saving my marriage.

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Dawn Moe" wrote in message
news:w91eh.2336$g_3.567@trndny02...

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote


I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone
would like to share casting techniques, please do so.

fwiw,



The two I use most often are the Big Splat Cast and the Tangled Mess Cast
.... I don't have the writing skill to clearly explain the intricate
movements of each, but thankfully, the cast names themselves do a good
job of conveying the results.


I use those casts quite often myself

Jeremy Moe


The key to the tangled mess, is "STOP" immediately after casting the first
tangle.
It's usually on the forward cast, as soon as the line tangles, I stop, reel
in the line with the tangle about three
feet away from the tip of the rod and patiently untangle. Usually it's only
one loop.
The worst case is if you tangle then continue to keep casting it compounds
the tangled into a real mess.

On windy days, two things to prevent tangles (wind knots).
Cast side arm, keeping the cast low if you can. When practicing I throw
loops a foot off the ground
and found the wind to be less of a bother.
Second is to speed up the cast, by arm strength, and/or back and forward
haul.
fwiw,
-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...
How often have I executed a Tangled Mess Cast and then spent minutes
trying to unsnarl the cluster ****, only to realize that it would have
more efficient to cut it apart and re-rig, and I don't know whether I'll
ever get it undone anyway, but I've invested so much time in it that I
can't quit?

Been their done that! In fact a couple weekends ago on the S.F of the Boise
while throwing a double nymph rig after the dry fly action stopped. As Tom
mentioned, noticing a tangle before casting it a couple times can be the
difference between cutting and un-tangling.

JT

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

"Dawn Moe" wrote in message
news:w91eh.2336$g_3.567@trndny02...

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote


I'm always game to try new cast with a single handed rod. If anyone
would like to share casting techniques, please do so.

fwiw,



The two I use most often are the Big Splat Cast and the Tangled Mess
Cast .... I don't have the writing skill to clearly explain the
intricate movements of each, but thankfully, the cast names themselves
do a good job of conveying the results.


I use those casts quite often myself

Jeremy Moe


The key to the tangled mess, is "STOP" immediately after casting the first
tangle.
It's usually on the forward cast, as soon as the line tangles, I stop,
reel in the line with the tangle about three
feet away from the tip of the rod and patiently untangle. Usually it's
only one loop.
The worst case is if you tangle then continue to keep casting it compounds
the tangled into a real mess.

On windy days, two things to prevent tangles (wind knots).
Cast side arm, keeping the cast low if you can. When practicing I throw
loops a foot off the ground
and found the wind to be less of a bother.
Second is to speed up the cast, by arm strength, and/or back and forward
haul.
fwiw,
-tom


My Tangled Mess casts typically happen on my 1st cat after tying on a
different fly or rig. I end up wrapping the leader around itself or the rod
and don't notice until after I attempt to cast. I get too impatient and want
to get my fly back in the water in too much of a hurry. I just need to pay
more attention to where my line is when I am done retying.

Jeremy Moe

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Dawn Moe" wrote in message
news:OUfeh.2$IG6.1@trndny01...

My Tangled Mess casts typically happen on my 1st cat after tying on a
different fly or rig. I end up wrapping the leader around itself or the
rod and don't notice until after I attempt to cast. I get too impatient
and want to get my fly back in the water in too much of a hurry. I just
need to pay more attention to where my line is when I am done retying.

Jeremy Moe


I'm one of the worst casters when it comes to the "two-fly, dropper" which
is why I avoid
the two-fly rig, there wasn't one time that I haven't tangled, including
current tangle.
Now I take my chances with one fly on the line. Nothing ****es me off more
than losing
two flies in one cast. My friend once rigged up 5 wet flies and lost them
all in one shot, this was after bragging
how good the set-up was. That was $1.75 per fly x 5. I love teasing him
about it, asking when he's going to break that record.
fwiw,
-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

I'm one of the worst casters when it comes to the "two-fly, dropper" which
is why I avoid
the two-fly rig, there wasn't one time that I haven't tangled, including
current tangle.

Being a "bad caster" is the key to fishing weighted multiple-fly rigs.
Forget about tight loops. Forget about looking good. Throw big open
loops, using your whole arm and shoulder if necessary. Use the drag of
the water to load the rod. Keep false casting to a minimum.

Many of my tangles come from false strikes or (worse) from pull-outs of
real strikes. When I see the rig heading out of the water on a
trajectory over my head, I do whatever it takes to keep it from getting
hung up in the trees and brush. This usually involves a premature,
overpowered, and panicked forward cast. Then I get the tangle, if I'm lucky.

Once you're tangled, follow the lead. Nine times out of ten, a loop of
mono centered on the lead will be wrapped around something. Start
unwinding the tangle there.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...
Tom Nakashima wrote:

I'm one of the worst casters when it comes to the "two-fly, dropper"
which is why I avoid
the two-fly rig, there wasn't one time that I haven't tangled, including
current tangle.

Being a "bad caster" is the key to fishing weighted multiple-fly rigs.
Forget about tight loops. Forget about looking good. Throw big open loops,
using your whole arm and shoulder if necessary. Use the drag of the water
to load the rod. Keep false casting to a minimum.

Yes, it's not about pretty or tight loops when dead drifting, or throwing
weighted multi rig flies.
And I know false casting can be your worst enemy when doing so. Open loops
are
always my choice if I multi rig. It only takes one time to learn this.


Many of my tangles come from false strikes or (worse) from pull-outs of
real strikes. When I see the rig heading out of the water on a trajectory
over my head, I do whatever it takes to keep it from getting hung up in
the trees and brush. This usually involves a premature, overpowered, and
panicked forward cast. Then I get the tangle, if I'm lucky.

One fly on the line is just my personal preference..
When nymphing, I use Rich Ostohoff's active nymphing technique with one fly.
I have found it more productive for me than multi rigging, and less
stressful.


Once you're tangled, follow the lead. Nine times out of ten, a loop of
mono centered on the lead will be wrapped around something. Start
unwinding the tangle there.


Not sure if you read Jerry Kustich's "A Wisp in the Wind"
He describes in one of the chapters about multi rigging, which he doesn't do
very often.
But in this case he landed a lunker on a double rig, and just has he grabbed
the line or fish to unhook
and release, the fish took off and the 2nd rig caught him in the hand.
He describes it as one of the most painful experiences in fishing.
fwiw,
-tom

The Figure 8 Cast
 

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:54:22 GMT, "Dawn Moe" wrote:



My Tangled Mess casts typically happen on my 1st cat after tying on a
different fly or rig. I end up wrapping the leader around itself or the rod
and don't notice until after I attempt to cast. I get too impatient and want
to get my fly back in the water in too much of a hurry. I just need to pay
more attention to where my line is when I am done retying.

FWIW, you might want to "pay more attention to where your line is"
regardless of the status of your retying. If you're not sure of where
your line is and what it's doing, you're gonna have problems casting. If
experience/"feel" can't yet guide you or you simply get momentarily
"lost," your eyes can tell you (and so, always wear some form of eye
protection when casting), so don't be reluctant to turn your head and
look. Remember, the line IS the cast, and with "out of forward sight"
casts, if the back is right, the forward stands a pretty good chance,
but if the back is a mess, the forward stands very little. IMO, the
"always in sight" aspect is one reason roll casts tend to be easy for
most folks.

HTH,
R

Jeremy Moe

The Figure 8 Cast
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

Not sure if you read Jerry Kustich's "A Wisp in the Wind"
He describes in one of the chapters about multi rigging, which he doesn't do
very often.
But in this case he landed a lunker on a double rig, and just has he grabbed
the line or fish to unhook
and release, the fish took off and the 2nd rig caught him in the hand.
He describes it as one of the most painful experiences in fishing.

That's happened to me more times than I like to recall. Often it's with
a large whitefish because, unlike trout, they don't give up when brought
to hand -- they keep flopping, even when turned upside down. Even worse,
when I'm fishing for large whitefish I'm usually out to keep them for
the smoker, so I don't debarb the hooks. Twice I've had to drive home
with a hook in my hand because I didn't bring a tool to cut off the barb.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The Figure 8 Cast
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote



I'm one of the worst casters when it comes to the "two-fly, dropper" which
is why I avoid
the two-fly rig, there wasn't one time that I haven't tangled, including
current tangle.
Now I take my chances with one fly on the line. Nothing ****es me off
more than losing
two flies in one cast.


I use a two fly system more often than I like a two fly system, and I never
completely feel good about it.

MY main objection to it is not physical ( although I can tangle anything in
sight of a fly rod ... my shoelaces tangle and only when fly fishing ). My
objection is that I always feel "uncertain" and, therefore, less competent,
when dry and dropper fishing.

To hopefully clarify, IF I know a dry is the right medicine OR a nymph is,
why not fish same and with real commitment? "Hedging my bets" always seems
tacky ... not fishing a nymph, not what I mean, trying to do everything
because who ( not me in these cases ) knows what is best, that is what makes
me feel less committed and confident.

AND, fwiw, I'm 100% convinced that trying to fish both styles compromises
both ... neither the dry nor the nymph is fished as well as if you
concentrated on one tactic ... at least not by me.

Given the popularity of such rigs I'm certain YMWV .... and I m certain I'll
continue to rig a PT under a dry when I neither have real faith in the dry,
nor, am I willing to but on a tiny indicator and fish that PT with real
confidence in it's power ( or forget any indicator and fish the PT )

The Figure 8 Cast
 

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:48:01 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:


"Tom Nakashima" wrote



I'm one of the worst casters when it comes to the "two-fly, dropper" which
is why I avoid
the two-fly rig, there wasn't one time that I haven't tangled, including
current tangle.
Now I take my chances with one fly on the line. Nothing ****es me off
more than losing
two flies in one cast.


I use a two fly system more often than I like a two fly system, and I never
completely feel good about it.

MY main objection to it is not physical ( although I can tangle anything in
sight of a fly rod ... my shoelaces tangle and only when fly fishing ). My
objection is that I always feel "uncertain" and, therefore, less competent,
when dry and dropper fishing.

To hopefully clarify, IF I know a dry is the right medicine OR a nymph is,
why not fish same and with real commitment? "Hedging my bets" always seems
tacky ... not fishing a nymph, not what I mean, trying to do everything
because who ( not me in these cases ) knows what is best, that is what makes
me feel less committed and confident.

AND, fwiw, I'm 100% convinced that trying to fish both styles compromises
both ... neither the dry nor the nymph is fished as well as if you
concentrated on one tactic ... at least not by me.

Given the popularity of such rigs I'm certain YMWV .... and I m certain I'll
continue to rig a PT under a dry when I neither have real faith in the dry,
nor, am I willing to but on a tiny indicator and fish that PT with real
confidence in it's power ( or forget any indicator and fish the PT )

Er, well...what I mean to say is...huh?

TC,
R

The Figure 8 Cast
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

The key to the tangled mess, is "STOP" immediately after casting the first
tangle.

Tom's right Jeremy, stop.
Try listening for the line travelling through the air it sounds
different when a tangle forms.


Steve

The Figure 8 Cast
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

The key to the tangled mess, is "STOP" immediately after casting the first
tangle.

Tom's right Jeremy, stop.
Try listening for the line travelling through the air it sounds
different when a tangle forms.


Steve

The Figure 8 Cast
 

wrote


Er, well...what I mean to say is...huh?



Don't have the LarryL Post Parsing Plugin for your news reader? Many
readers without it have the same reaction as you ... huh?.

g

The Figure 8 Cast
 

On 8 Dec 2006 12:09:47 -0800, "Stephen Welsh"
wrote:


Tom Nakashima wrote:

The key to the tangled mess, is "STOP" immediately after casting the first
tangle.

Tom's right Jeremy, stop.

I wasn't going to make an issue of it when I read it, but now I'm
curious - why would you guys think anyone would continue attempting to
cast with a tangled mess, or have I mis-read/understood what Tom wrote?

TC,
R

Try listening for the line travelling through the air it sounds
different when a tangle forms.


Steve

The Figure 8 Cast
 

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 20:17:28 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:


wrote


Er, well...what I mean to say is...huh?



Don't have the LarryL Post Parsing Plugin for your news reader? Many
readers without it have the same reaction as you ... huh?.

I didn't mean it sarcastically - I was only gigging you a bit. You
seemed to me to be genuinely attempting to add to the discussion, but I
didn't really understand what you were attempting to convey.

TC,
R

g