Spinning rod question
 

I was in my local Gander Mountain today noodling through their left-over
rods from last year. It appears they have not yet begun to stock up for the
spring season up here in MI.

I took a look at some of their Titanium IM-8 or 9s that generally run around
$150. Nice balance and feel to them. I noticed that the first guide,
nearest to the reel seat, was offset from all the other guides. So, I
looked at the next spinning rod and saw the same thing. A Shimano had the
same thing going on to a little bit lesser degree.

Then I started looking at some other brands and saw the guides all lined up
without the offset guide.

Is there something going on here with the first guide being offset that I
have not noticed previously? I bought a very nice Shimano Crucial last year
that did not have an offset. Quality control problems on these rods
perhaps? Maybe I have just missed something new in rod design here. Any
thoughts?

Spinning rod question
 

Ok, I guess I should have done my homework. This is a variation of what is
known as a "Robert's wrap" which apparently is over 75 years old as
innovations go. It was done on heavier duty rods back in the day to relieve
the torque on the reels and rods, and to keep the line off the rod blank.

I am guessing, extrapolating if you will - so please be kind to me here -
that this is done to some of the higher end, very lightweight graphite rods
to relieve torque and minimize breakage.

Spinning rod question
 

I love the Roberts wrap! I have some made by Steve and some made by
Rodmaker. They seem to cast smoother and farther, also very sensitive.
Doc
================================================== =======================

"johnval1" wrote in message
.. .

Ok, I guess I should have done my homework. This is a variation of what
is known as a "Robert's wrap" which apparently is over 75 years old as
innovations go. It was done on heavier duty rods back in the day to
relieve the torque on the reels and rods, and to keep the line off the rod
blank.

I am guessing, extrapolating if you will - so please be kind to me here -
that this is done to some of the higher end, very lightweight graphite
rods to relieve torque and minimize breakage.

Spinning rod question
 

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 00:26:15 GMT, "johnval1"
wrote:

I was in my local Gander Mountain today noodling through their left-over
rods from last year. It appears they have not yet begun to stock up for the
spring season up here in MI.

I took a look at some of their Titanium IM-8 or 9s that generally run around
$150. Nice balance and feel to them. I noticed that the first guide,
nearest to the reel seat, was offset from all the other guides. So, I
looked at the next spinning rod and saw the same thing. A Shimano had the
same thing going on to a little bit lesser degree.

Then I started looking at some other brands and saw the guides all lined up
without the offset guide.

Is there something going on here with the first guide being offset that I
have not noticed previously? I bought a very nice Shimano Crucial last year
that did not have an offset. Quality control problems on these rods
perhaps? Maybe I have just missed something new in rod design here. Any
thoughts?


Not being an expert, I would guess that if just the first is out of
line and it is left over from last season, they are mis-aligned by
mistake. I would also think if you like the rod and can get it cheap,
putting on a new guide would not be a big deal.

How bout it Steve, Rodmaker??? Am I all wet here?

Dan

Remove the x for e-mail reply
1996 HD Sportster 1200S. N9JBF. Bass fishing Aficionado!
www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.SecretWeaponLures.com
A proud charter member of "PETAF", People for Eating Tasty Animals and Fish!!!

Spinning rod question
 

On Feb 23, 7:26 pm, "johnval1" wrote:
I was in my local Gander Mountain today noodling through their left-over
rods from last year. It appears they have not yet begun to stock up for the
spring season up here in MI.

I took a look at some of their Titanium IM-8 or 9s that generally run around
$150. Nice balance and feel to them. I noticed that the first guide,
nearest to the reel seat, was offset from all the other guides. So, I
looked at the next spinning rod and saw the same thing. A Shimano had the
same thing going on to a little bit lesser degree.

Then I started looking at some other brands and saw the guides all lined up
without the offset guide.

Is there something going on here with the first guide being offset that I
have not noticed previously? I bought a very nice Shimano Crucial last year
that did not have an offset. Quality control problems on these rods
perhaps? Maybe I have just missed something new in rod design here. Any
thoughts?

Any chance these were two piece rods and the bottom was not aligned
with the top? I have a couple of rods with the lowest guide on one
part and all the rest on the other.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

Spinning rod question
 

"Ronnie" wrote in message Any chance these were two piece rods and the
bottom was not aligned
with the top? I have a couple of rods with the lowest guide on one
part and all the rest on the other.
Ronnie


No Ronnie. That was my first thought as well, but they all turned out to be
1 piece rods.

Spinning rod question
 

"johnval1" wrote in message
.. .

Ok, I guess I should have done my homework. This is a variation of what
is known as a "Robert's wrap" which apparently is over 75 years old as
innovations go. It was done on heavier duty rods back in the day to
relieve the torque on the reels and rods, and to keep the line off the rod
blank.

I am guessing, extrapolating if you will - so please be kind to me here -
that this is done to some of the higher end, very lightweight graphite
rods to relieve torque and minimize breakage.


Nope, what you're seeing is shoddy workmanship. A baitcasting rod can be
built with a Robert's Wrap, but it isn't possible with a spinning rod.

Spending a lot of money doesn't necessarily equate to quality. I discovered
that long ago when I started upgrading my equipment. It is also the primary
reason why I got into rod building in the first place. I'll take the same
components and assemble a much better rod!
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Spinning rod question
 

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers"
Nope, what you're seeing is shoddy workmanship. A baitcasting rod can be
built with a Robert's Wrap, but it isn't possible with a spinning rod.

Spending a lot of money doesn't necessarily equate to quality. I
discovered that long ago when I started upgrading my equipment. It is
also the primary reason why I got into rod building in the first place.
I'll take the same components and assemble a much better rod!


Well done Steve! Thanks for the clarification. After further search, I
found the following which directly reinforced what you said:

Roberts Wrapped Guides on a Fishing Rod
I won a great bait casting rod from Millennium Rods in Tennessee in an
internet bass fishing tournament. The rod is very light and sensitive, and I
really like it. It has the Robert's Wrap system of guide placement on it.
On a Robert's Wrapped rod, the guides spiral around the rod, so the line
never touches the rod even when it is bent. Spinning rods don't have this
problem, but since bait casting rods have the reel on top of the rod, when
you fight a fish the rod bends and the line rubs against the rod itself.

This system has been around for a long time and some people really like it.
I have no problems with it, but I can not tell that it really helps. I have
never had a problem with the line rubbing against the rod while fighting a
fish - maybe I just don't catch fish big enough to be a problem!

The Robert's Wrap is supposed to make the line flow more smoothly, too, but
I can't really tell.

I use the Millennium rod for pitching and it works well. It looks a little
strange, but I like it fine. I probalby would not pay extra for the system
when buying a rod, though.
Try out a fishing rod with Robert's Wrapped guides and see if you like it.
That is the real test

The foregoing was written by Ronnie Garrison, and is posted on
www.fishing.about.com

Thanks for helping with the ongoing education.

Spinning rod question
 

The Robert's Wrap is supposed to make the line flow more smoothly, too,
but
I can't really tell.

I use the Millennium rod for pitching and it works well. It looks a little
strange, but I like it fine. I probalby would not pay extra for the system
when buying a rod, though.
Try out a fishing rod with Robert's Wrapped guides and see if you like it.
That is the real test

The foregoing was written by Ronnie Garrison, and is posted on
www.fishing.about.com

Thanks for helping with the ongoing education.

If you look in this month's issue of Bass and Walleye Boats magazine, they
did an article on Robert's Wrap rods and were able to do a fairly accurate
comparison between two identical rods with different guide configurations.
The Robert's Wrap outcast the other rod with every tester.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Spinning rod question
 

Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
snip
Spending a lot of money doesn't necessarily equate to quality. I discovered
that long ago when I started upgrading my equipment. It is also the primary
reason why I got into rod building in the first place. I'll take the same
components and assemble a much better rod!

Buying a custom built may get you a better rod than the same
factory model but given what the manufacturers charge for blanks
it can't end up being all that much cheaper. And then there's the
warranty. If I break a G Loomis they'll send me a brand new one
via UPS for $50 and for $65 they'll get it to me in two days. If
I were to break a Huber custom built in a car door how much does
it cost to replace and how soon can you get it to me ? ;-)

Custom builts are great for fancy thread work or specialty grips
but almost all my fly rods are factory models *with* warranties.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Spinning rod question
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
t...
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
snip Spending a lot of money doesn't necessarily equate to quality. I
discovered that long ago when I started upgrading my equipment. It is
also the primary reason why I got into rod building in the first place.
I'll take the same components and assemble a much better rod!

Buying a custom built may get you a better rod than the same
factory model but given what the manufacturers charge for blanks
it can't end up being all that much cheaper. And then there's the
warranty. If I break a G Loomis they'll send me a brand new one
via UPS for $50 and for $65 they'll get it to me in two days. If
I were to break a Huber custom built in a car door how much does
it cost to replace and how soon can you get it to me ? ;-)

Custom builts are great for fancy thread work or specialty grips
but almost all my fly rods are factory models *with* warranties.

I warranty any rod I build for life (mine! :-) against defects in
workmanship or materials. If it fails in the course of fishing, return the
pieces to me and I'll build you a new one for nothing more than the cost of
shipping.

Slam it in a car door and you're on your own! I don't warranty stupid.....
;-)

As far as turn around time, depending on what the blank was, and how fast I
can get it, probably less than two weeks.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Spinning rod question
 

Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
... And then there's the
warranty. If I break a G Loomis they'll send me a brand new one
via UPS for $50 and for $65 they'll get it to me in two days. If
I were to break a Huber custom built in a car door how much does
it cost to replace and how soon can you get it to me ? ;-)

I warranty any rod I build for life (mine! :-) against defects in
workmanship or materials. If it fails in the course of fishing, return the
pieces to me and I'll build you a new one for nothing more than the cost of
shipping.

Slam it in a car door and you're on your own! I don't warranty stupid.....
;-)

LOL !! I don't blame you. I've never busted a fly rod in a car door
but I did have an unfortunate encounter with a malicious screen door
one time. ;-)

A lot of folks complain about unconditional warranties needlessly
raising the price of rods but how do you tell the difference between
stupid and material failure without a forensics team from CSI ? And
if you do determine the break was due to stupid is it worth the ill
will it generates to say so to a customer ? I understand that the guy
who sells 100-200 rods a year can't have an unconditional warranty
but it's a nice thing to have and I don't mind paying a little extra
for the insurance.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Spinning rod question
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message SNIP

Slam it in a car door and you're on your own! I don't warranty
stupid..... ;-)

LOL !! I don't blame you. I've never busted a fly rod in a car door
but I did have an unfortunate encounter with a malicious screen door
one time. ;-)

A lot of folks complain about unconditional warranties needlessly
raising the price of rods but how do you tell the difference between
stupid and material failure without a forensics team from CSI ? And
if you do determine the break was due to stupid is it worth the ill
will it generates to say so to a customer ? I understand that the guy
who sells 100-200 rods a year can't have an unconditional warranty
but it's a nice thing to have and I don't mind paying a little extra
for the insurance.

It's really not that hard to tell when a rod is broken through a dumbsh!t
move, there's things an experienced eye can tell. Harder to tell is abuse.

I guess I've been fortunate in that I've had to build few replacement rods,
although I have had a couple rods sent back to me with notes explaining how
dumb they were in breaking the rod. Those guys I give a big price break to,
usually just charging for the cost of the blank and I don't demand
reimbursement for my labor.

One guy said "I don't know how it happened, but the rod broke when I was
reeling in a small fish." I emailed him back saying the sneaker print right
at the break site and the bent guide might have something to do with the
break. He emailed me back and admitted that's what happened, he set the rod
down on the deck and stepped on it. I built another rod for him, with a
price break, but he paid for his stupidity and attempt at duplicity.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com