Upside down dryfly revisited
 

A week or two ago the subject of the "Upside Down Dryfly" came up.
I think most of the important points got mentioned, by various
posters,
but this moroning I ran across the following link (actually a buddy
sent it to me).
This is a Japanese language site primarily, but it does have a
parallel set
of pages written in Englais. Note the earliest reference (1662)

http://www.kawanobooks.com/html/En/e081.html

upside-down fly　　English　《fly》
　 A fly in which the hook is used upside down.　As for the oldest
description of an upside down fly, Col. Robert Venables in Britain
mentioned such a fly in the "The Experienced Angler" (1662).　The fly
was a mayfly imitation that had the wing attached to the point side of
a hook.　At the time, many people imitated this pattern, and it was
also called reversed-wing.　Because the hook point is in the air in
this pattern, it can be effective to catch overly sophisticated trout.
However, hooking is said to be somewhat difficult.
　 In the 1970s, Brian Clarke and John Goddard of Britain introduced a
series of upside down patterns, and called it the USD series.　Later on
Neil Patterson made an outstanding fly pattern called Funneldun as an
improved version of USD series.
　 In the United States, Joe Brooks introduced the Keel Fly in his book
"Trout Fishing" (1972).　In Japan, upside down flies have been often
called keel fly or keel style, however because Keel Fly is a company's
name, upside down fly is more desirable for use in common expression.
�Reference】A dictionary of fly-fishing, 1993 (1992).　The experienced
angler, 1969 (1662).　The trout and the fly, 1980.　Trout fishing, 1972.
→Robert Venables, USD Paradun series, Funnel Dun, Joe Brooks, Trout
Fishing, keel fly

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Feb 25, 6:00 pm, "salmobytes" wrote:
A week or two ago the subject of the "Upside Down Dryfly" came up.
I think most of the important points got mentioned, by various
posters,
but this moroning I ran across the following link (actually a buddy
sent it to me).
This is a Japanese language site primarily, but it does have a
parallel set
of pages written in Englais. Note the earliest reference (1662)

http://www.kawanobooks.com/html/En/e081.html

upside-down fly　　English　《fly》
　 A fly in which the hook is used upside down.　As for the oldest
description of an upside down fly, Col. Robert Venables in Britain
mentioned such a fly in the "The Experienced Angler" (1662).　The fly
was a mayfly imitation that had the wing attached to the point side of
a hook.　At the time, many people imitated this pattern, and it was
also called reversed-wing.　Because the hook point is in the air in
this pattern, it can be effective to catch overly sophisticated trout.
However, hooking is said to be somewhat difficult.
　 In the 1970s, Brian Clarke and John Goddard of Britain introduced a
series of upside down patterns, and called it the USD series.　Later on
Neil Patterson made an outstanding fly pattern called Funneldun as an
improved version of USD series.
　 In the United States, Joe Brooks introduced the Keel Fly in his book
"Trout Fishing" (1972).　In Japan, upside down flies have been often
called keel fly or keel style, however because Keel Fly is a company's
name, upside down fly is more desirable for use in common expression.
�Reference】A dictionary of fly-fishing, 1993 (1992).　The experienced
angler, 1969 (1662).　The trout and the fly, 1980.　Trout fishing, 1972.
→Robert Venables, USD Paradun series, Funnel Dun, Joe Brooks, Trout
Fishing, keel fly

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rbear/venables1.html

TL
MC

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

wrote:
"salmobytes" wrote:
A week or two ago the subject of the "Upside Down Dryfly" came up.
snip

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rbear/venables1.html

Reposting the entire post to which you're responding only to add
one line, and nothing but a URL at that, is the kind of rude Usenet
behavior we've come to expect from newbies and morons. On top of
which it is the bane of bottom posting.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
news:1bkEh.915
Reposting the entire post to which you're responding only to add
one line, and nothing but a URL at that, is the kind of rude Usenet
behavior we've come to expect from newbies and morons. On top of
which it is the bane of bottom posting.

--
Ken Fortenberry

whereas anal critiques of the posting styles of others, just
to continue a drivel-filled exchange with Mr. Connor is the sort of rude
Usenet behavior we've come to expect from you.........Give it a freaking
rest, willya?
Tom

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

Tom Littleton wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Reposting the entire post to which you're responding ...

.........Give it a freaking
rest, willya?

The Subject: did say "revisited" did it not ?

Bite me, Tommy.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Feb 25, 1:20 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
Tom Littleton wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Reposting the entire post to which you're responding ...

.........Give it a freaking
rest, willya?

The Subject: did say "revisited" did it not ?

It did not say "self-loathing redefined and exemplified."

The good news is there ain't a damned thing you can do about
it. :)

Wolfgang
gawd, what an arse!

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Feb 25, 12:05 pm, wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:02 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
"salmobytes" wrote:
A week or two ago the subject of the "Upside Down Dryfly" came up.
snip

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rbear/venables1.html

Reposting the entire post to which you're responding only to add
one line, and nothing but a URL at that, is the kind of rude Usenet
behavior we've come to expect from newbies and morons. On top of
which it is the bane of bottom posting.

--
Ken Fortenberry

T H E
Experienced Angler:

O R

ANGLING
IMPROVED.

B E I N G

A general Discourse of Angling;

Imparting many of the aptest wayes
and choicest Experiments for the
taking of most sorts of Fish in
Pond or River.

______________

L O N D O N:

Printed for Richard Marriot, and are to be sold
at his Shop in St. Dunstan's Church-yard,
Fleet-street. 1662.

______________

PREFATORY ADDRESS

TO

THE READER.

FROM

THE EDITION OF

MDCLXII.

______________

PREFATORY ADDRESS.

______________

DELIGHT and Pleasure are so fast rivetted and firmly rooted in the
heart of man, that I suppose there are none so morose or melancholy,
that will not only pretend to, but plead for an interest in the same,
most being so much enamoured therewith, that they judge that life but
a living death, which is wholly deprived or abridged of all pleasure;
and many pursue the same with so much eagerness and importunity, as
though they had been born for no other end, as that they not only
consume their most precious time, but also totally ruin their estates
thereby: for in this loose and licentious age, when profuse
prodigality passes for the characteristical mark of true generosity,
and frugality, I mean not niggardliness; is branded with the
ignominious blot of baseness. I expect not that this undervalued
subject, though it propound delight at an easy rate, will meet with
any other entertainment than neglect, if not contempt, it being an art
which few take pleasure in, nothing passing for noble or delightful
which is not costly; as though men could not gratify their sesnse, but
with the consumption of their fortunes.
Hawking and Hunting have had their excellencies celebrated with
large encomiums by divers pens, and although I intend not any
undervaluing to those noble recreations, so much famed in all ages and
by all degrees, yet I must needs affirm, that they fall not within the
compass of every ones ability to pursue, being as it were only
entailed on great persons and vast estates; for if meaner fortunes
seek to enjoy them, Actæon's fable often proves a true story, and
these birds of prey not seldom quarry upon their masters:besides those
recreations are most subject to choler and passion, by how much those
creatures exceed a hook or line in worth: and indeed in those
exercises our pleasure depends much upon the will and humour of a
sullen cur or kite, (as I have heard their own passions phrase them);
which also require much attendance, care and skill to keep her
serviceable to our ends. Further, these delights are often prejudicial
to the husbandman in his corn, grass and fences; but in this pleasant
and harmless Art of Angling a man hath none to quarrel with but
himself, and we are usually so entirely our own friends, as not to
retain an irreconcilable hatred against ourselves, but can in short
time easily compose the enmity; and besides ourselves none are
offended, none are endamaged; and this recreation falleth within the
capacity of the lowest fortune to compass, affording also profit as
well as pleasure, in following of which exercise a man may employ his
thoughts in the noblest studies, almost as freely as in his closet.
The minds of anglers being usually more calm and composed than
many others, especially hunters and falconers, who too frequently lose
their delight in their passion, and too often bring home more of
melancholy and discontent than satisfaction in their thoughts; but the
angler, when he hath the worst success, loseth but a hook or line, or,
perhaps, what he never possessed, a fish; and suppose he should take
nothing, yet he enjoyeth a delightful walk by pleasant rivers in sweet
pastures, amongst odoriferous flowers, which gratify his senses and
delight his mind; which contentments induce many, who affect not
angling, to choose those places of pleasure for their Summer's
recreation and health.
But, peradventure, some may alledge that this art is mean,
melancholy, and insipid; I suppose the old answer, de gustibus nonest
disputandum, will hold as firmly in recreations as palates, many have
supposed Angling void of delight, having never tried it, yet have
afterwards experimented it so full of content, that they have quitted
all other recreations, at least in its season, to pursue it; and I do
pursuade myself, that whosoever shall associate himself with some
honest expert angler, who will freely and candidly communicate his
skill unto him, will in short time be convinced, that Ars non habet
inimicum nisis ignorantem; and the more any experiment its harmless
delight, not subject to passion or expence, he will probably be
induced to relinquish those pleasures which being obnoxious to choler
or contention so discompose the thoughts, that nothing during that
unsettlement can relish or delight the mind; to pursue that recreation
which composeth the soul to that calmness and serenity, which gives a
man the fullest possession and fruition of himself and all his
enjoyments; this clearness and equanimity of spirit being a matter of
so high a concern and value in the judgments of many profound
Philosophers, as any one may see that will bestow the pains to read,
de tranquilitate Animi, and Petrarch de Utriusque Conditionis Statu:
Certainly he that lives Sibi et Deo, leads the most happy life; and if
this art do not dispose and incline the mind of man to a quiet calm
sedateness, I am confident it doth not, as many other delights; cast
blocks and rubs before him to make his way more difficult and less
pleasant. The cheapness of the recreation abates not its pleasure, but
with rational persons heightens it; and if it be delightful the charge
of melancholy falls upon that score, and if example, which is the best
proof, may sway any thing, I know no sort of men less subject to
melancholy than anglers; many have cast off other recreations and
embraced it. but I never knew any angler wholly cast off. though
occassions might interrupt, their affections to their beloved
recreation; and if this art may prove a Noble brave rest to thy mind,
it will be satisfaction to his, who is thy well-wishing Friend.

ANGLING IMPROVED:

OR

PROFIT AND PLEASURE UNITED.

__________

CHAP. I.

WHEN TO PROVIDE TOOLS, AND HOW TO MAKE THEM.

FOR the attaining of such ends which our desires propose to
themselves, of necessity we must make use of such common mediums as
have a natural tendency to the producing of such effects as are in our
eye, and at which we aim; and as in any work, if one principal
material be wanting, the whole is at a stand, neither can the same be
perfected: so in Angling, the end being recreation, which consisteth
in drawing the fish to bite, that we may take them; if you want tools,
though you have baits, or baits, though you have tackle, yet you have
no part of pleasure by either of these singly: nay, if you have both,
yet want skill to use them, all the rest is to little purpose. I shall
therefore first begin with your tools, and so proceed in order with
the rest.
1. In Autumn, when the leaves are almost or altogether fallen,
which is usually about the Winter solstice, the sap being then in the
root; which about the middle of January begins to ascend again, and
then the time is past to provide yourself with stocks or tops: you
need not be so exactly curious for your stocks as the tops, though I
wish you to choose the neatest taper-grown you can for stocks, but let
your tops be the most neat rush-grown shoots you can get, straight and
smooth; and if for the ground rod, near or full two yards long, the
reason for that length shall be given presently; and if for the fly,
of what length you please, because you must either choose them to fit
the stock, or the stock to fit them in a most exact proportion;
neither do they need to be so very much taper-grown as those for the
ground, for if your rod be not most exactly proportionable, as well as
slender, it will neither cast well, strike readily, or ply and bend
equally, which will very much endanger your line. When you have fitted
yourself with tops and stocks, for all must be gathered in one season,
if any of them be crooked, bind them all together, and they will keep
one another straight; or lay them on some even-boarded floor, with a
weight on the crooked parts, or else bind them close to some straight
staff or pole; but before you do this you must bathe them all, save
the very top, in a gentle fire.
For the ground angle, I prefer the cane or reed before all other,
both for its length and lightness: and whereas some object against
its colour and stiffness, I both these inconveniences are easily
remedied; the colour by covering it with thin leather or parchment,
and those dyed into what colour you please; or you may colour the cane
itself, as you see daily done by those that sell them in London,
especially if you scrape off the shining yellow outside, but that
weakens the rod. The stiffness of the cane is helped by the length and
strength of the top, which I would wish to be very much taper-grown,
and of the full length I spoke of before, and so it will kill a very
good fish without ever straining the cane, which will, as you may
observe, yield and bend a little; neither would I advise any to use a
reed that will not receive a top of the fore-mentioned length. Such
who must commend the hazel-rod, (which I also value and praise, but
for different reasons), above the cane; do it because, say they, the ...

read more »

Wow, that is a WHOLE lot of indifference! :)

Wolfgang
and that's the truth, pfbhlbblblhlhlblh.

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

well, I have highspeed DSL, and am waiting for
Mike to post Chapter two.g
Tom

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Feb 25, 11:48 pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
well, I have highspeed DSL, and am waiting for
Mike to post Chapter two.g
Tom

Try these;



http://putstuff.putfile.com/23022/4121162
Soft hackle materials PDF

http://putstuff.putfile.com/24094/171475
Soft hackle styles

http://putstuff.putfile.com/24904/9851671
Misc Flies

Pocket guides

http://putstuff.putfile.com/25816/2753083

TL
MC

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On 25 Feb 2007 09:00:18 -0800, "salmobytes"
wrote:

A week or two ago the subject of the "Upside Down Dryfly" came up.
I think most of the important points got mentioned, by various
posters,
but this moroning I ran across the following link (actually a buddy
sent it to me).
This is a Japanese language site primarily, but it does have a
parallel set
of pages written in Englais. Note the earliest reference (1662)

http://www.kawanobooks.com/html/En/e081.html

upside-down fly??English??fly?
? A fly in which the hook is used upside down.?As for the oldest
description of an upside down fly, Col. Robert Venables in Britain
mentioned such a fly in the "The Experienced Angler" (1662).?The fly
was a mayfly imitation that had the wing attached to the point side of
a hook.?At the time, many people imitated this pattern, and it was
also called reversed-wing.?Because the hook point is in the air in
this pattern, it can be effective to catch overly sophisticated trout.
However, hooking is said to be somewhat difficult.
? In the 1970s, Brian Clarke and John Goddard of Britain introduced a
series of upside down patterns, and called it the USD series.?Later on
Neil Patterson made an outstanding fly pattern called Funneldun as an
improved version of USD series.
? In the United States, Joe Brooks introduced the Keel Fly in his book
"Trout Fishing" (1972).?In Japan, upside down flies have been often
called keel fly or keel style, however because Keel Fly is a company's
name, upside down fly is more desirable for use in common expression.
?Reference?A dictionary of fly-fishing, 1993 (1992).?The experienced
angler, 1969 (1662).?The trout and the fly, 1980.?Trout fishing, 1972.
?Robert Venables, USD Paradun series, Funnel Dun, Joe Brooks, Trout
Fishing, keel fly

A keel fly isn't simply an "upside-down" pattern on a "standard" hook.
It is tyed on a special keel hook. Several hook-makers used to make
them. Also, Brooks didn't introduce them in "Trout Fishing" - they had
been mentioned in print since the 60s. Pobst, the developer, gives the
most complete treatment in his "Fish the Impossible Places: The Story of
the Keel Fly."

TC,
R

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

wrote in message
...
Also, Brooks didn't introduce them in "Trout Fishing" - they had
been mentioned in print since the 60s. Pobst, the developer, gives the
most complete treatment in his "Fish the Impossible Places: The Story of
the Keel Fly."

TC,
R

thanks for pointing that one out. I meant to, myself, but got distracted by
the Sage of Fawn Lake. You've mentioned these designs a couple times. Have
you ever
tied/used them?? I was never too impressed by them, functionally, but to be
honest, my only real trials came years ago, and I might be a tad more adept,
both at the tying and fishing of them nowadays.
Tom

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:27:15 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
Also, Brooks didn't introduce them in "Trout Fishing" - they had
been mentioned in print since the 60s. Pobst, the developer, gives the
most complete treatment in his "Fish the Impossible Places: The Story of
the Keel Fly."

TC,
R

thanks for pointing that one out. I meant to, myself, but got distracted by
the Sage of Fawn Lake. You've mentioned these designs a couple times. Have
you ever
tied/used them?? I was never too impressed by them, functionally, but to be
honest, my only real trials came years ago, and I might be a tad more adept,
both at the tying and fishing of them nowadays.
Tom

Yeah, I've tyed them and used them. My grandfather loved bass and salt
fishing as much as trout and other species, and for "impossible places,"
they are decent enough. As to using them exclusively or even fairly
often, there is no need IMO. And now that the hooks aren't readily
available, I especially place them, just as I do all varieties of
"upside down" flies, in the "special purpose" category, ala Clouser
minnows, many tarpon flies, etc. They don't hook like "regular" flies,
but if you're C & K'ing (trout), it really doesn't matter. For things
like tarpon or bass, you're not going to kill one with an "upside-down"
fly mouth-hooked.

If you can find a copy of Pobst's book, it'll give you quite a bit of
info. If you can't, lemme know and I'll photo...er, contact me via
email...

TC,
R

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Feb 25, 11:02 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Reposting the entire post to which you're responding only to add
one line.

What I posted never before appeared on usenet.

....lonely, annoying little ankle-biting twerps on usenet do make
you wonder why you bother to participate.

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Feb 25, 9:04 pm, "salmobytes" wrote:

...lonely, annoying little ankle-biting twerps on usenet do make
you wonder why you bother to participate.

It's because they are amusing. Really. Trust me.

Wolfgang

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On 25 Feb 2007 19:04:55 -0800, "salmobytes"
wrote:

On Feb 25, 11:02 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Reposting the entire post to which you're responding only to add
one line.

What I posted never before appeared on usenet.

Um...yes, generally, it has, but...

...lonely, annoying little ankle-biting twerps on usenet do make
you wonder why you bother to participate.

....to whom are you replying?

HTH,
R
....you ain't one of them adventurous, reliable innovators, are ya?

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

salmobytes wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Reposting the entire post to which you're responding only to add
one line.

What I posted never before appeared on usenet.

I wasn't talking about your post, apparently you have some sort of
difficulty following threads on a Usenet newsgroup.

...lonely, annoying little ankle-biting twerps on usenet do make
you wonder why you bother to participate.

Ouch. Boy, you sure told me. Congratulations Sandy, you've done your
bit to make this a kinder, gentler place in which to participate.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

Wolfgang wrote:
On Feb 25, 9:04 pm, "salmobytes" wrote:

...lonely, annoying little ankle-biting twerps on usenet do make
you wonder why you bother to participate.

It's because they are amusing. Really. Trust me.

Wolfgang



No - you're not.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On 25 Feb 2007 19:04:55 -0800, "salmobytes"
wrote:

On Feb 25, 11:02 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Reposting the entire post to which you're responding only to add
one line.

What I posted never before appeared on usenet.

Ken was complaining to the person who quoted your post and only added
one line, not to or about you.

Notice the attributions.
--

r.bc: vixen
Minnow goddess, Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher.
Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

"13thchoise" wrote in message
.. .
Wolfgang wrote:
On Feb 25, 9:04 pm, "salmobytes" wrote:

...lonely, annoying little ankle-biting twerps on usenet do make
you wonder why you bother to participate.

It's because they are amusing. Really. Trust me.

Wolfgang



No - you're not.

See, THIS is what keeps us coming back.....the diabolically clever bon mot!
:)

Wolfgang
who, like everyone else here (presumably) when presented with one of these
timeless gems, can hardly help but be reminded of huxley's comment on being
apprised of darwin's little theory.

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Feb 26, 1:53 am, Cyli wrote:

Ken was complaining to the person who quoted your post and only added
one line, not to or about you.

.....it's a great and terrible usenet. Sorry Ken. I got it wrong

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Feb 26, 8:30 am, "salmobytes" wrote:
On Feb 26, 1:53 am, Cyli wrote:

Ken was complaining to the person who quoted your post and only added
one line, not to or about you.

I've been using Google's Ajax-empowered news reader, because, well,
that's what I use.
I do like most things Google, but the new (just out of beta) Google
newsreader
does make it hard to figure who posted what, and which part of a
thread
you are currently reading. I might have to find another reader.

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

On Feb 26, 4:38 pm, "salmobytes" wrote:
On Feb 26, 8:30 am, "salmobytes" wrote:

On Feb 26, 1:53 am, Cyli wrote:

Ken was complaining to the person who quoted your post and only added
one line, not to or about you.

I've been using Google's Ajax-empowered news reader, because, well,
that's what I use.
I do like most things Google, but the new (just out of beta) Google
newsreader
does make it hard to figure who posted what, and which part of a
thread
you are currently reading. I might have to find another reader.

The google groups interface is also somewhat involved, ( or is that
the one you mean?). Difficult to see exactly what is what, and it is
slow.

Not Homophiliac-proof either.

TL
MC

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

Wolfgang wrote:
"13thchoise" wrote in message
.. .
Wolfgang wrote:
On Feb 25, 9:04 pm, "salmobytes" wrote:

...lonely, annoying little ankle-biting twerps on usenet do make
you wonder why you bother to participate.
It's because they are amusing. Really. Trust me.

Wolfgang


No - you're not.

See, THIS is what keeps us coming back.....

Easily amused? Maybe just no life.

the diabolically clever bon mot!

You're too kind.

:)

Cute.


Wolfgang

Not so cute.

who, like everyone else here (presumably) when presented with one of these
timeless gems, can hardly help but be reminded of huxley's comment on being
apprised of darwin's little theory.


Really clever and witty.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Upside down dryfly revisited
 

"13thchoise" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:
"13thchoise" wrote in message
.. .
Wolfgang wrote:
On Feb 25, 9:04 pm, "salmobytes" wrote:

...lonely, annoying little ankle-biting twerps on usenet do make
you wonder why you bother to participate.
It's because they are amusing. Really. Trust me.

Wolfgang


No - you're not.

See, THIS is what keeps us coming back.....

Easily amused? Maybe just no life.

the diabolically clever bon mot!

You're too kind.

:)

Cute.


Wolfgang

Not so cute.

who, like everyone else here (presumably) when presented with one of
these
timeless gems, can hardly help but be reminded of huxley's comment on
being
apprised of darwin's little theory.


Really clever and witty.

Moron.

Wolfgang