Speed Worms
 

I heard an interesting little rumor while at the Bassmaster Classic. It
seems that one company decided to get into the soft frog market and made one
that was really close to Horny Toads. Zoom had a "Cease and Desist" order
issued and production was stopped. However the company that wanted to sell
the frogs holds the patent on the speed worm tail design.

They in turn had a Cease and Desist order taken out for the Speed Worms by
Zoom.

I don't know if this is true for certain, but I did hear it from several
different sources. So, if you like Speed Worms, you might want to stock up
now while they're still available.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Speed Worms
 

If that's the case, then there will be a bunch of fighting going on.

The Horny toad made by Zoom also uses the speedworm tail on it's legs. Not
sure if it's identical, but it sure is close.

Now you also have Mann's who uses a new frog with similiar legs. They also
use the tough heads which is something I thought up way before Mann's ever
used them( believe it or not). But who knows, they may have been designing
it for years. I think it will be so hard for anyone to issue a cease and
dissest order on something like that due to the fact that it can be modified
ever so slightly that it absolutely keeps any copyright infringement out of
the works.. me thinks at least.

Anyway, I love speedworms and always keep a huge supply of them on hand.
they produce many many fish.
"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in message
...
I heard an interesting little rumor while at the Bassmaster Classic. It
seems that one company decided to get into the soft frog market and made
one that was really close to Horny Toads. Zoom had a "Cease and Desist"
order issued and production was stopped. However the company that wanted
to sell the frogs holds the patent on the speed worm tail design.

They in turn had a Cease and Desist order taken out for the Speed Worms by
Zoom.

I don't know if this is true for certain, but I did hear it from several
different sources. So, if you like Speed Worms, you might want to stock
up now while they're still available.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Speed Worms
 

OhioFishking wrote:

I think it will be so hard for anyone to issue a cease and
dissest order on something like that due to the fact that it can be modified
ever so slightly that it absolutely keeps any copyright infringement out of
the works.. me thinks at least.


That depends a lot on whether it's a design patent or a utility patent.
If the latter, the protection is pretty strong. It also protects against
modifications and adaptations that it 'teaches' to anyone 'skilled in
the art'.

But I believe the original patent was a design patent, so it may not
have as much stopping power. Its existence though, should negate Zoom's
claim.

Patent law is a funny thing though, and this one will likely come down
to who has the determination, endurance and pocketbook to outlast the
other in court.

Speed Worms
 

"RichZ" wrote in message SNIP

Patent law is a funny thing though, and this one will likely come down to
who has the determination, endurance and pocketbook to outlast the other
in court.

That seemed to be the general consensus down in Birmingham too, but it might
make availability of speed worms a problem for a while. That's why I
thought I'd let people know to stock up until things get sorted out
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Speed Worms
 

Rich, you seem to be the layman patent guy, so I have a couple of questions:

1) What about all the lures that are virtually identical to the Senko?

2) What about a company like Lurecraft, which makes a mold for a Horny
Toad-like lure and even uses the Horny Toad name in its catalog?

http://www.lurecraft.com/catalog.cfm...ogs/5x821:1908


"RichZ" wrote in message
...
OhioFishking wrote:

I think it will be so hard for anyone to issue a cease and dissest order
on something like that due to the fact that it can be modified ever so
slightly that it absolutely keeps any copyright infringement out of the
works.. me thinks at least.


That depends a lot on whether it's a design patent or a utility patent. If
the latter, the protection is pretty strong. It also protects against
modifications and adaptations that it 'teaches' to anyone 'skilled in the
art'.

But I believe the original patent was a design patent, so it may not have
as much stopping power. Its existence though, should negate Zoom's claim.

Patent law is a funny thing though, and this one will likely come down to
who has the determination, endurance and pocketbook to outlast the other
in court.

Speed Worms
 

Marty wrote:
Rich, you seem to be the layman patent guy, so I have a couple of questions:

I'm not Rick, but I know patent law better than most, as I deal with it
daily

1) What about all the lures that are virtually identical to the Senko?

Gary never filed for a patent on the Senko, he didn't think it was worth
one,, it took 6 years of almost zero sales before the Senko took off,
then it was too late to file for a patent.

2) What about a company like Lurecraft, which makes a mold for a Horny
Toad-like lure and even uses the Horny Toad name in its catalog?

They "could be" in some AWESOME trouble, (there is patent case law where
you can't instruct, or provide assistance to anyone for the purpose of
infringement) if Zoom goes after them,, there again they could have
invented the thing for Zoom, and part of the deal is to allow them to
sell the molds to individuals, or they could have even licensed the
design from Zoom, as Zoom knows less than 1/10 of a percent of fishermen
mold their own lures, or Zoom just does not think it's worth the effort
to go after them. Of course Zoom may not even know about Lurecraft and
their catalog.

Using the "name" Horny Toad, violates Zoom's Trade Mark, unless they
have permission


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Nutri Shield insect repellent. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

Speed Worms
 

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 11:19:59 -0600, "Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers"
wrote:


"RichZ" wrote in message SNIP

Patent law is a funny thing though, and this one will likely come down to
who has the determination, endurance and pocketbook to outlast the other
in court.

That seemed to be the general consensus down in Birmingham too, but it might
make availability of speed worms a problem for a while. That's why I
thought I'd let people know to stock up until things get sorted out
Yeah you ****ing spammer.......stock up folks from my spam
site.....here`s the link.........By golly!!

Speed Worms
 

What does this mean for someone who wants to start a lure-making
business. If they build up an inventory of lures that look like a
brand name, are they going to get hit with patent infringement
lawsuits until they go under?



2) What about a company like Lurecraft, which makes a mold for a Horny
Toad-like lure and even uses the Horny Toad name in its catalog?

They "could be" in some AWESOME trouble, (there is patent case law where
you can't instruct, or provide assistance to anyone for the purpose of
infringement) if Zoom goes after them,, there again they could have
invented the thing for Zoom, and part of the deal is to allow them to
sell the molds to individuals, or they could have even licensed the
design from Zoom, as Zoom knows less than 1/10 of a percent of fishermen
mold their own lures, or Zoom just does not think it's worth the effort
to go after them. Of course Zoom may not even know about Lurecraft and
their catalog.

Speed Worms
 

"Greg Lumpkin" wrote in message
oups.com...
What does this mean for someone who wants to start a lure-making
business. If they build up an inventory of lures that look like a
brand name, are they going to get hit with patent infringement
lawsuits until they go under?


Look and feel lawsuits are tough to win, but they can still eat you up with
legal costs. Microsoft is very good at this type of tactic.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Speed Worms
 

Greg Lumpkin wrote:
What does this mean for someone who wants to start a lure-making
business. If they build up an inventory of lures that look like a
brand name, are they going to get hit with patent infringement
lawsuits until they go under?


If they build lures that are under "active" patents, the answer is yes,
and only "one" lawsuit, on just one lure, will put them under. Most new
lure companies are based on their own "new" lure designs, they can't
compete with the major companies, why try to, unless you can sell
something they can't ?

What if you come up the the be all catch all lure, you file for a patent
to "protect" your lure from others profiting from it (cost you thousands
to get that patent issued), after all, your the one who came up with it.
and start a little company making them, it is very hard to get your lure
into stores, because they don't know you or your company. Then Zoom ,
who is heavily in the market, they knock off your design and make
millions from all "your" work. You sell very few because you just could
not compete with Zoom's marketing.

This is why we have a patent system, so that inventors can profit from
their work.

Companies "must" go after "all" infringer's of their patents, even if
the little guy can't hurt them in the market, if they don't go after
them or license to them, then the BIG companies can freely make and sell
their patented items, they can claim that company number one is not
defending their patent, thus it is public domain (case law has been made
on this , you can't selectively go after infringer's, you just can't go
after those with deep pockets, you must go after "all" infringer's, or
you could loose your patent rights)


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Nutri Shield insect repellent. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

Speed Worms
 

(Greg*Lumpkin)
What does this mean for someone who wants to start a lure-making
business. If they build up an inventory of lures that look like a brand
name, are they going to get hit with patent infringement lawsuits until
they go under?
=======
There is a thing called "in the public domain", those things are not
patent enforceable. For example, you and I both carve out custom Mallard
duck decoys, they are both identical to a Mallard duck...either one of
us would have a hard time enforcing a patent on them. We could however
copyright a name "Joe's custom duck decoys"....but the words, custom,
duck, and decoys are considered in the public domain, and I could
copyright, J&M custom duck decoys.

So if you built a lure that imitated a "shad", no problem...you can't
patent the "shad" part. But if your's is manufactured in a unique
original manner, or has some original unique design, those
characteristics would be patentable....enforcement is a whole other ball
game though :).

I certainly wouldn't be afraid to manufacture and sell lures that looked
like other companies lures....but I wouldn't incorporate any of their
patentable "uniquely original" features, nor use the unique name they
might use. You can't just patent a "frog", a "fish", or a
"worm"...unless of course you developed a unique hybrid (I believe there
are some (what ever that oriental carp is called) fish that are
patented...not sure).

This is just a layman's opinion based on several personal "infringement"
court battles I have had...and won, I might add :). Both were copyright
infringement cases, probably much easier to address than patent claims
though.

JK

Speed Worms
 

I just want to build and market fishing lures. Nothing fancy and I'm
not looking to get rich. I'm not even looking to innovate and set the
world on fire, just get paid a little for doing something I like and
that cotributes to a hobby that I enjoy. I will come up with my own
lure names, etc. I have never imagined building something and
claiming it was something else. I wasn't raised that way.

In order to build thse lures, I will, most likely be using components
from places like Jan's, Barlow's, Lurecraft, etc. I was just woried
that if I use their components and build up an inventory of let's say,
spinner baits, am I going to get a visit from a lawyer representing
Booyah?

Greg

There is a thing called "in the public domain", those things are not
patent enforceable. For example, you and I both carve out custom Mallard
duck decoys, they are both identical to a Mallard duck...either one of
us would have a hard time enforcing a patent on them. We could however
copyright a name "Joe's custom duck decoys"....but the words, custom,
duck, and decoys are considered in the public domain, and I could
copyright, J&M custom duck decoys.

So if you built a lure that imitated a "shad", no problem...you can't
patent the "shad" part. But if your's is manufactured in a unique
original manner, or has some original unique design, those
characteristics would be patentable....enforcement is a whole other ball
game though :).

I certainly wouldn't be afraid to manufacture and sell lures that looked
like other companies lures....but I wouldn't incorporate any of their
patentable "uniquely original" features, nor use the unique name they
might use. You can't just patent a "frog", a "fish", or a
"worm"...unless of course you developed a unique hybrid (I believe there
are some (what ever that oriental carp is called) fish that are
patented...not sure).

This is just a layman's opinion based on several personal "infringement"
court battles I have had...and won, I might add :). Both were copyright
infringement cases, probably much easier to address than patent claims
though.

JK

Speed Worms
 

Thank you. I have zero understanding of patent and trademark law, although
the subject interests me. There are a lot of crankbaits that look very
similar to each other. There are numerous soft jerkbaits that look like a
Super Fluke. It seems hard jerkbaits all look like each other.

At any rate, let's get back to the Senko. Suppose he patented it. What would
be the limit to which an imitation could go?
Would we have a Tiki Stick, Stik-o, Yum Dinger, etc?

"Rodney Long" wrote in message
...
Marty wrote:
Rich, you seem to be the layman patent guy, so I have a couple of
questions:

I'm not Rick, but I know patent law better than most, as I deal with it
daily

1) What about all the lures that are virtually identical to the Senko?

Gary never filed for a patent on the Senko, he didn't think it was worth
one,, it took 6 years of almost zero sales before the Senko took off, then
it was too late to file for a patent.

2) What about a company like Lurecraft, which makes a mold for a Horny
Toad-like lure and even uses the Horny Toad name in its catalog?

They "could be" in some AWESOME trouble, (there is patent case law where
you can't instruct, or provide assistance to anyone for the purpose of
infringement) if Zoom goes after them,, there again they could have
invented the thing for Zoom, and part of the deal is to allow them to sell
the molds to individuals, or they could have even licensed the design from
Zoom, as Zoom knows less than 1/10 of a percent of fishermen mold their
own lures, or Zoom just does not think it's worth the effort to go after
them. Of course Zoom may not even know about Lurecraft and their catalog.

Using the "name" Horny Toad, violates Zoom's Trade Mark, unless they have
permission


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Nutri Shield insect repellent. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

Speed Worms
 

Marty wrote:

At any rate, let's get back to the Senko. Suppose he patented it. What would
be the limit to which an imitation could go?
Would we have a Tiki Stick, Stik-o, Yum Dinger, etc?

It would depend on the patent that was granted



--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Nutri Shield insect repellent. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

Speed Worms
 

"Rodney Long" wrote in message
...
Marty wrote:

At any rate, let's get back to the Senko. Suppose he patented it. What
would be the limit to which an imitation could go?
Would we have a Tiki Stick, Stik-o, Yum Dinger, etc?

It would depend on the patent that was granted



--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Nutri Shield insect repellent. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

I think most worms would be hard to patent. Forget the first salt
impregnated worm, but the manufacturer figured he could not protect it with
a patent, so has a patent on the salt injection application.

Speed Worms
 

Calif Bill wrote:

I think most worms would be hard to patent. Forget the first salt
impregnated worm, but the manufacturer figured he could not protect it with
a patent, so has a patent on the salt injection application.



Larew's Salt Craw. He patented it, never enforced it. Two owners of the
company later, they did start enforcing it. Collected a licensing fee
from everyone using salt, or stopped them. That's why the zoom and other
packs say "mfg under patent ###" on them. The patent expired several
years ago.

The patent wasn't on the means of injecting it, but on the concept of
adding it in the first place. Here's a link to the patent.

http://shrunklink.com/?ttn