Help from readers?
 

Still trying to complete article on life of a small brook trout from
hatchery to death on a rat face McDougal from the fish point of view., and
find first person {the fish } point of view sort of confusing.
Wolfgang or some of you book folks, have you read anything presented from
the fish side of story? If they make a movie from this article I will share
credits if you offer any suggestions.
Indian Joe

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On Mar 5, 9:57 am, "Joe McIntosh" wrote:
Still trying to complete article on life of a small brook trout from
hatchery to death on a rat face McDougal from the fish point of view., and
find first person {the fish } point of view sort of confusing.
Wolfgang or some of you book folks, have you read anything presented from
the fish side of story?

Haig-Brown : "Return to the River"

Help from readers?
 

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 5, 9:57 am, "Joe McIntosh" wrote:
Still trying to complete article on life of a small brook trout from
hatchery to death on a rat face McDougal from the fish point of view.,
and
find first person {the fish } point of view sort of confusing.
Wolfgang or some of you book folks, have you read anything presented
from
the fish side of story?

Haig-Brown : "Return to the River"
Joe replies --thanks Wayne-quick look at my own library includes Roderick
Haig-Browns's " A Primer of Fly-Fishing", but no copy of Return to
River---will have to find a copy.

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On Mar 5, 11:46 am, "Joe McIntosh" wrote:

-will have to find a copy.-

Since I've twice sent rare,out of print, and collectible Middleton
books east and got them back safely, I guess I could do the same with
a Haig-Brown book that is not collectible if you can't find a copy.

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On Mar 5, 9:57 am, "Joe McIntosh" wrote:
have you read anything presented from
the fish side of story?

"What the Trout Said" by Datus Proper. I have the second "revised and
augmented" edition, Nick Lyons books, 1989. I believe it is out of
print.

Bill

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On Mar 5, 11:05 am, "Wayne Knight" wrote:
On Mar 5, 11:46 am, "Joe McIntosh" wrote:

-will have to find a copy.-

Since I've twice sent rare,out of print, and collectible Middleton
books east and got them back safely, I guess I could do the same with
a Haig-Brown book that is not collectible if you can't find a copy.

I've got a copy lying in one of the heaps around here. Found it at a
garage sale for a buck or so, some years back. I've seen a few others
here and there. I get the impression it shouldn't be hard to locate
at any decent sized library. Otherwise, I can also send mine out.

Wolfgang

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On Mar 5, 10:54 am, "Wayne Knight" wrote:
On Mar 5, 9:57 am, "Joe McIntosh" wrote:

Still trying to complete article on life of a small brook trout from
hatchery to death on a rat face McDougal from the fish point of view., and
find first person {the fish } point of view sort of confusing.
Wolfgang or some of you book folks, have you read anything presented from
the fish side of story?

Haig-Brown : "Return to the River"


A terrific book, from probably the most talented writer of fishing
books, ever. However, it happens to be written in the third-person
(omnicient) point of view, not in the first-person.

That being said, wouldn't any story that attempted to be from the
perspective of the fish be fairly contrived? That's probably why you
find it confusing, Joe. It's hard enough to imagine a story narrated
from the perspective of a nonhuman primate, not to mention going a few
rungs down the evolutionary ladder to the fish. Either some serious
anthropomorphism needs to be accomplished (so the fish talks more like
a person), or there has to be a third-person voice.

Just my $0.02 worth,

Adam

Help from readers?
 

Adam wrote:

On Mar 5, 10:54 am, "Wayne Knight" wrote:

On Mar 5, 9:57 am, "Joe McIntosh" wrote:


Still trying to complete article on life of a small brook trout from
hatchery to death on a rat face McDougal from the fish point of view., and
find first person {the fish } point of view sort of confusing.
Wolfgang or some of you book folks, have you read anything presented from
the fish side of story?

Haig-Brown : "Return to the River"



A terrific book, from probably the most talented writer of fishing
books, ever. However, it happens to be written in the third-person
(omnicient) point of view, not in the first-person.

That being said, wouldn't any story that attempted to be from the
perspective of the fish be fairly contrived? That's probably why you
find it confusing, Joe. It's hard enough to imagine a story narrated
from the perspective of a nonhuman primate, not to mention going a few
rungs down the evolutionary ladder to the fish. Either some serious
anthropomorphism needs to be accomplished (so the fish talks more like
a person), or there has to be a third-person voice.

Just my $0.02 worth,

Adam



john gardner wrote a book from the beowulf monster's point of
view...grendel. very effective and interesting when i read it decades ago.

Help from readers?
 

"jeff" wrote in message
...
john gardner wrote a book from the beowulf monster's point of
view...grendel. very effective and interesting when i read it decades
ago.

Fair enough point, Jeff, but I think Adam is on something.
I mean, IJ's premise involves a thinking, feeling, caring and
apparently garrulous fish, starting shortly past the egg stage. That's a
tough narrative to make without vast use of the willing suspension of
disbelief, or whatever they call it.

..........and, if it doesn't end with the exclamation "Oh, ****!"
someplace between hook-set and landing, I won't believe a word of it......
Tom

Help from readers?
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

"What the Trout Said" by Datus Proper. I have the second "revised and
augmented" edition, Nick Lyons books, 1989. I believe it is out of
print.

Bill

I think another run was published after Proper's death.
Great book.....very well the most important book for fly tyers ever written
by an American. I know that sounds hyperbolic, but that is how I really feel
about that book.
Still, Proper is still the primary narrator, the trout, all adults, and
generally with an attitude, speak to him.....
Tom

Help from readers?
 

On Mar 5, 8:10 pm, jeff wrote:
Adam wrote:
On Mar 5, 10:54 am, "Wayne Knight" wrote:

On Mar 5, 9:57 am, "Joe McIntosh" wrote:

Still trying to complete article on life of a small brook trout from
hatchery to death on a rat face McDougal from the fish point of view., and
find first person {the fish } point of view sort of confusing.
Wolfgang or some of you book folks, have you read anything presented from
the fish side of story?

Haig-Brown : "Return to the River"

A terrific book, from probably the most talented writer of fishing
books, ever. However, it happens to be written in the third-person
(omnicient) point of view, not in the first-person.

That being said, wouldn't any story that attempted to be from the
perspective of the fish be fairly contrived? That's probably why you
find it confusing, Joe. It's hard enough to imagine a story narrated
from the perspective of a nonhuman primate, not to mention going a few
rungs down the evolutionary ladder to the fish. Either some serious
anthropomorphism needs to be accomplished (so the fish talks more like
a person), or there has to be a third-person voice.

Just my $0.02 worth,

Adam

john gardner wrote a book from the beowulf monster's point of
view...grendel. very effective and interesting when i read it decades ago.

Broadly speaking, there are two classes of books in this world; those
whose covers are (as Mr. Bierce once observed) too far apart, and
those whose covers are way too close together. Gardner's "Grendel"
exemplifies the latter as well as any.

Thanks for the reminder. I'll be looking for a copy to reread soon.

Wolfgang

Help from readers?
 

"Adam" wrote in message

A terrific book, from probably the most talented writer of fishing
books, ever. However, it happens to be written in the third-person
(omnicient) point of view, not in the first-person.

That being said, wouldn't any story that attempted to be from the
perspective of the fish be fairly contrived? That's probably why you
find it confusing, Joe. It's hard enough to imagine a story narrated
from the perspective of a nonhuman primate, not to mention going a few
rungs down the evolutionary ladder to the fish. Either some serious
anthropomorphism needs to be accomplished (so the fish talks more like
a person), or there has to be a third-person voice.

Just my $0.02 worth,

Adam

Indian Joe amazingly answers--anthropomorphism indeed is expected--my
wife says walt disney just made big money producing a movie where all the
fish talk---Finding Nemo---
my story line will have to be revised to remove scenes of raccoon eating
one small brookie and a large brown who swims upstream to spawn and eats
brother of my main man.
By the way the brook trout was first described by Mitchell in 1815 from fish
caught around New York city.Hence the name Eastern brook trout. {Salvelinus
fontinalis} The term "fontinalis" means 'living in springs."--{ this info
collected from stevenojai's Fly Fishing the Sierras}

Help from readers?
 

I think the best person to ask is Frank Ried He has spent enough time
underwater to be an expert in the life cycle of a brook
trout..............Love ya frankie baby..........Your email still
doesn't work unless you just don't want to answer me

Help from readers?
 

On Mar 5, 9:10 pm, jeff wrote:
Adam wrote:
On Mar 5, 10:54 am, "Wayne Knight" wrote:

On Mar 5, 9:57 am, "Joe McIntosh" wrote:

Still trying to complete article on life of a small brook trout from
hatchery to death on a rat face McDougal from the fish point of view., and
find first person {the fish } point of view sort of confusing.
Wolfgang or some of you book folks, have you read anything presented from
the fish side of story?

Haig-Brown : "Return to the River"

A terrific book, from probably the most talented writer of fishing
books, ever. However, it happens to be written in the third-person
(omnicient) point of view, not in the first-person.

That being said, wouldn't any story that attempted to be from the
perspective of the fish be fairly contrived? That's probably why you
find it confusing, Joe. It's hard enough to imagine a story narrated
from the perspective of a nonhuman primate, not to mention going a few
rungs down the evolutionary ladder to the fish. Either some serious
anthropomorphism needs to be accomplished (so the fish talks more like
a person), or there has to be a third-person voice.

Just my $0.02 worth,

Adam

john gardner wrote a book from the beowulf monster's point of
view...grendel. very effective and interesting when i read it decades ago.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Thanks, Jeff, I had never heard of 'Grendel', and just requested it
from the library.

-Adam

Help from readers?
 

On Mar 5, 10:32 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:
On Mar 5, 8:10 pm, jeff wrote:

john gardner wrote a book from the beowulf monster's point of
view...grendel. very effective and interesting when i read it decades ago.

Broadly speaking, there are two classes of books in this world; those
whose covers are (as Mr. Bierce once observed) too far apart, and
those whose covers are way too close together. Gardner's "Grendel"
exemplifies the latter as well as any.

Thanks for the reminder. I'll be looking for a copy to reread soon.

I know it is poetry (I know, I know! I've got a reputation to uphold,
after all!) but you boys should have a look at Gardner's translation
of the Gawain poet. "Gawain and the Green Knight" is rolicking good
fun- banquet feasts, quests, lots of slaying- and Gardner did a darned
good job of rendering the old English into new.

I don't know much about Gardner- his academic background- but he must
have gotten a taste for the early stuff at some point.

Hwæt!
Wm

Help from readers?
 

Wolfgang wrote:


Broadly speaking, there are two classes of books in this world; those
whose covers are (as Mr. Bierce once observed) too far apart, and
those whose covers are way too close together.

That's a cool observation and very true. Got me to thinking of some
books that might fit the two categories. Two I've read the past year I
think make good examples, at least in my opinion, which is all either
category is anyway. Opinions.

I reread, after a first reading twenty-five years ago, "Atlas Shrugged"
by Ayn Rand this summer. That book is too thick. Way too thick. If it
were edited down to about half it would be a much better read.

I also read "1776" by David McCullough. When I finished the book (which
ends with almost a quarter inch of pages left) I was ready for "1777."
Covers too close together.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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On Mar 6, 11:35 pm, 13thchoise wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:

Broadly speaking, there are two classes of books in this world; those
whose covers are (as Mr. Bierce once observed) too far apart, and
those whose covers are way too close together.

That's a cool observation and very true. Got me to thinking of some
books that might fit the two categories. Two I've read the past year I
think make good examples, at least in my opinion, which is all either
category is anyway. Opinions.

I reread, after a first reading twenty-five years ago, "Atlas Shrugged"
by Ayn Rand this summer. That book is too thick. Way too thick. If it
were edited down to about half it would be a much better read.

I tried that once. It's a lot like eating tree bark with vomit
sauce. That is to say, it can certainly be done......

I also read "1776" by David McCullough. When I finished the book (which
ends with almost a quarter inch of pages left) I was ready for "1777."
Covers too close together.

Subject matter generally counts for a lot with most authors but if you
like McCullough, you should give "The Path Between the Seas" a shot.
Actually, the building of the Panama canal is one of the most
fascinating stories in modern history......even those who are lukewarm
about McCullough should read it.

Wolfgang
who, floundering ever more weakly in an ever more tempestuous sea of
printed matter, had successfully avoided "1776".....till now.
thanks. :(

Help from readers?
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 6, 11:35 pm, 13thchoise wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:

Broadly speaking, there are two classes of books in this world; those
whose covers are (as Mr. Bierce once observed) too far apart, and
those whose covers are way too close together.

That's a cool observation and very true. Got me to thinking of some
books that might fit the two categories. Two I've read the past year I
think make good examples, at least in my opinion, which is all either
category is anyway. Opinions.

I reread, after a first reading twenty-five years ago, "Atlas Shrugged"
by Ayn Rand this summer. That book is too thick. Way too thick. If it
were edited down to about half it would be a much better read.

I tried that once. It's a lot like eating tree bark with vomit
sauce. That is to say, it can certainly be done......

I also read "1776" by David McCullough. When I finished the book (which
ends with almost a quarter inch of pages left) I was ready for "1777."
Covers too close together.

Subject matter generally counts for a lot with most authors but if you
like McCullough, you should give "The Path Between the Seas" a shot.
Actually, the building of the Panama canal is one of the most
fascinating stories in modern history......even those who are lukewarm
about McCullough should read it.

I read "1776" shortly after it came out, and thoroughly enjoed it.

Op

Wolfgang
who, floundering ever more weakly in an ever more tempestuous sea of
printed matter, had successfully avoided "1776".....till now.
thanks. :(

Help from readers?
 

Raptor Red by Robert Bakker....it's about dinosaurs....

written from the dino's point of view, in the third person and is a neat
read..

Seems to me to be written in the first person would be kind of hard because
animals (and such) don't use "I."

john


"Joe McIntosh" wrote in message
...
Still trying to complete article on life of a small brook trout from
hatchery to death on a rat face McDougal from the fish point of view.,
and find first person {the fish } point of view sort of confusing.
Wolfgang or some of you book folks, have you read anything presented from
the fish side of story? If they make a movie from this article I will
share credits if you offer any suggestions.
Indian Joe

Help from readers?
 

asadi wrote:

Raptor Red by Robert Bakker....it's about dinosaurs....

written from the dino's point of view, in the third person and is a neat
read..

Seems to me to be written in the first person would be kind of hard because
animals (and such) don't use "I."

john





john - eta in eastern nc? how long do you want to stay?

jeff