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TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
My school sends the HS kids on outdoor-related experiences each year.
These can take many forms. ranging from cultural excursions to Vienna, service-related trips to VietNam building houses, or mountain climbing expeditions to Indonesia. Twenty kids go on each trip, which last a week in duration. During the week, we have about 50 of these trips going out, all over the planet. This year, I decided to create my own trip and combine two of my great loves and create a river-running (canoeing) and flyfishing trip to New Zealand. After much on-line research, I chose the Rangitikei River on the west coast of the North Island as the venue. Its a naturally fed river, with a bell-shaped flow curve throughout the summer season, but with occasional floods. The river is deeply entrenched in some chalk and limestone cliffs, and carves sharp bends with deep pools throughout its length across the western New Zealand countryside. It tends to flow in the range of several cubic feet per second, but with occasional floods in the tens of hundreds of CFS. It is also known to have some rather immense rainbows. Months of prep work went into the trip: I made arrangements with outfitters for canoes and guides, contacted land agents to arrange transportation and hotels on each end of the trip, presented the trip idea at an open marketplace, got a full slate of students signed up, and ran a series of pre-trip orientation meetings where I taught the kids everything from how to paddle their canoes to how to set up a tent to what to pack and where to buy it. I inspected their gear, recommended packs and sleeping bags, sent permission forms home, arranged visas and travel permits, made copies of passports and HK ID cards, and finally after all that prep work, last week we were on our way. Unfortunately, I also came down with a bout of bronchitis the day before the trip departed. I spent the entire flight to NZ with the chills and fever, and by the time we arrived in Wellington, spent the night at a hostel, and transported ourselves to the river region north of there, I was far too sick to participate in the trip. Because of the threat high water from some impending rains, at the last minute we changed the river venue to the Whanganui, which is steady class 1-2 fla****er, and much less formidable. After one night on the water it became incredibly obvious that I should not be on-river, so I excused myself, left the kids in the capable hands of our three river guides, and went back to the base camp to recuperate for the week. After two days and a handful of medicines, the fever and chills were replaced with total boredom. Since I was already in-country, and because there was so much about the Rangitikei I was unfamiliar with, I rented a car and drove to the river region so that I could scout the river throughout its length. Also, the threatened rains did not materialize, so I wanted to see what the access routes and river basin was like. As I stated, most of the river is deeply entrenched, so it was difficult to get a good look at much of the watershed. What I could see showed me a crystal clear stream, snaking its way down a very deep vertical-walled canyon, piling into the wall at turns, carving cavernous overhangs and deep blue pools. At one point, I was looking over a very scenic overview and noticed a jeep trail that passed through the yard of a farmhouse and appeared to snake its way down to the river. I thought for a moment about asking permission to trespass and hike down the trail to the river, but then reconsidered as it was quite a long way to hike in (and out), and I felt a bit uncomfortable about disturbing the locals this far off the beaten path. But then I reconsidered...I had come a hell of a long way to get to New Zealand, and was there with my rental car, without the kids (who were in very good hands), with my fishing gear in the back seat, and with a day to spare. It seemed a bit ludricrous to let a moment of insecurity stop me from potentially seeing the river up close, and maybe getting a chance to cast a line. So I drove down to the sheep gate, let myself through, drove across the fields to the house, and pulled up in the driveway. The woman of the house spotted me through the window and came out. She asked if she could help me, so I handed her my business card, and briefly explained that I was in NZ with a bunch of students who were on a river trip, and that I was researching information about the river that ran in the canyon through her backyard, and wondered if she could answer some questions about water flow rates, flood regularity, campsites, fishing, etc? She was very accommodating, and we talked for about 15 minutes. Then she mentioned that her husband who was much more knowledgable was guiding some fishing clients on the river and was going to arrive at take-out at the end of the jeep trail in a few hours, but if I could drive a 4WD, I was welcome to save her some time and drive the jeep down to the river and wait for him. A few minutes later, I could not believe the change in my luck. I was driving down the mile-long access trail in a 4WD, fishing gear in the passenger seat, with permission to fish the private stretch of river at the end of the road. I worked my way down the double-track through some steep slick patches, and out on to the gravel bar at the riverside where the road ended. The river was beautiful; crystal clear, rocky runs into deep pools. The flow was in the range of a few hundred cfs, the shores were wide gravel bars with plenty of room to backcast, and the shallows were easily wadable. I worked my way to the top of the first hundred-meter long riffle, tied on a copper john, and proceeded to nymph the run. Cast upstream, strip, swing and lift, retrieve. Step to the left, cast upstream, strip, swing and lift, retrieve, Step to the left, etc. About halfway down the run, I got my first hit. Something fairly solid slammed the nymph, then took off across the stream. I breathed a small 'thank you', raised my tip to set the hook, and nothing. Hmm. I stepped to the left, cast upstream, striped, swung the nymph and lifted....and BAM, another huge hit. Again, I raised the tip to set the hook, and nothing. I retrieved the nymph and checked the hook; sharp and shiny, but maybe the gape was a little closed. I bent the gap open a bit, took a step to the left, cast upstream, stripped, swung and lifted, retrieved. After a few dozen more casts, again I got slammed by something large and again it spit out my hook. By the time the raft came drifting down, I had gotten a half dozen world-class hits, but none of them had been on my hook for more than a few seconds before the LDR. Sadly, I reeled up and walked down to the raft, introduced myself, and hopped in for the ride back to the top of the cliff. Michael, the guide, was very congenial, and after a bit of chatting I decided to spend the night at his place (his 'farmhouse' turned out to be a rather exclusive fishing camp), and the next morning his client Stewart and I took the 4-wheeler back down to the river to fish some more. We headed downstream from the run I had nymphed the previous evening, and tied up a slightly different rig. Where I had been nymphing a solo copper john before, this time I tied on a larger copper john 12 feet below a strike indicator, then a smaller stonefly imitation a few feet below the CJ on a dropper tied at the bend. I was using a new 4x tapered leader, with a 5x tippet for the dropper. It was harder to cast this rig, but it was the usual set-up for this river, according to Stephen and Stewart (who had caught two 5-pounder Rainbows the previous day). The run itself was unproductive, but at the bottom of the rapid the river piled into the wall, forming an undercut and a deep blue pool inside the bend. I cast the nymph across the current, let it wash through the undercut and into the deep pool, then WHAMMO! I got hit very hard. I pulled back, there was a brief flash of silver deep in the pool, then nothing. Damn. I retrived my rig, and saw that the 4x leader had parted right above the top nymph like it was a wet noodle. I inspected the break to see if it had come free at a knot, but the break was clean with no pigtail...it was a straight break-off. Wow, that must have been a huge fish to snap my leader so easily. Unfortunately, it was also a very skittish fish as it did not hit again. I got a few more hits in the runout of the pool, but they were much smaller. Within a few hours, it was time for me to go, so Stewart and I piled onto the 4-wheeler, and reluctantly drove up out of the river valley and back to the lodge. In the end, I did not bring anything to hand, and I'm not sure why. I did get about a dozen HARD hits, but I suspect that I am underestimating how hard the beaks are on these large trout, and am not setting the hook hard enough. My instictive setting motion is based on years of catching smaller fish, so its hard to override muscle memory at that moment and really yank back. The one big hit I got that took my hardware was probably a huge fish...the river is known to have a few resident 10 pounders, and of course it gets larger in retrospect, but I'm sure I missed the largest fish of my life just then. In any case, it was a magical evening and morning on the Rangitikei, and I am psyched to make arrangements to go back to Stephen's lodge for a week without the overriding obligation to my students or the school, where I can really indulge myself and enjoy some more New Zealand fly fishing. --riverman |
Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote:
fine trip! Yes, it was. BTW, check out this link http://www.tarata.co.nz/ and go to 'virtual tour'. The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where I got the big hit. Such a beautiful stretch of water. --riverman |
Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
"riverman" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote: fine trip! Yes, it was. BTW, check out this link http://www.tarata.co.nz/ and go to 'virtual tour'. The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where I got the big hit. Such a beautiful stretch of water. --riverman Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are the guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site. |
Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On Mar 26, 12:15 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"riverman" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote: fine trip! Yes, it was. BTW, check out this linkhttp://www.tarata.co.nz/and go to 'virtual tour'. The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where I got the big hit. Such a beautiful stretch of water. --riverman Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are the guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Can't speak definitively for the whole region, but last year another roffian and I stayed here http://tinyurl.com/3dym2r for NZ$90 per night, combined. We hired a top-notch local guide for NZ$100 per day. He was well worth the cost. The lodge on the Rangitikei where I stayed was NZ$80 per night, but I don't know if Stephen charged a separate guiding fee, as I didn't use his services. All in all, I think you'll find NZ to be relatively cheap. Its like a blast back to the 1970s. --riverman |
Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
fine trip!
"riverman" wrote in message ups.com... My school sends the HS kids on outdoor-related experiences each year. These can take many forms. ranging from cultural excursions to Vienna, service-related trips to VietNam building houses, or mountain climbing expeditions to Indonesia. Twenty kids go on each trip, which last a week in duration. During the week, we have about 50 of these trips going out, all over the planet. This year, I decided to create my own trip and combine two of my great loves and create a river-running (canoeing) and flyfishing trip to New Zealand. After much on-line research, I chose the Rangitikei River on the west coast of the North Island as the venue. Its a naturally fed river, with a bell-shaped flow curve throughout the summer season, but with occasional floods. The river is deeply entrenched in some chalk and limestone cliffs, and carves sharp bends with deep pools throughout its length across the western New Zealand countryside. It tends to flow in the range of several cubic feet per second, but with occasional floods in the tens of hundreds of CFS. It is also known to have some rather immense rainbows. Months of prep work went into the trip: I made arrangements with outfitters for canoes and guides, contacted land agents to arrange transportation and hotels on each end of the trip, presented the trip idea at an open marketplace, got a full slate of students signed up, and ran a series of pre-trip orientation meetings where I taught the kids everything from how to paddle their canoes to how to set up a tent to what to pack and where to buy it. I inspected their gear, recommended packs and sleeping bags, sent permission forms home, arranged visas and travel permits, made copies of passports and HK ID cards, and finally after all that prep work, last week we were on our way. Unfortunately, I also came down with a bout of bronchitis the day before the trip departed. I spent the entire flight to NZ with the chills and fever, and by the time we arrived in Wellington, spent the night at a hostel, and transported ourselves to the river region north of there, I was far too sick to participate in the trip. Because of the threat high water from some impending rains, at the last minute we changed the river venue to the Whanganui, which is steady class 1-2 fla****er, and much less formidable. After one night on the water it became incredibly obvious that I should not be on-river, so I excused myself, left the kids in the capable hands of our three river guides, and went back to the base camp to recuperate for the week. After two days and a handful of medicines, the fever and chills were replaced with total boredom. Since I was already in-country, and because there was so much about the Rangitikei I was unfamiliar with, I rented a car and drove to the river region so that I could scout the river throughout its length. Also, the threatened rains did not materialize, so I wanted to see what the access routes and river basin was like. As I stated, most of the river is deeply entrenched, so it was difficult to get a good look at much of the watershed. What I could see showed me a crystal clear stream, snaking its way down a very deep vertical-walled canyon, piling into the wall at turns, carving cavernous overhangs and deep blue pools. At one point, I was looking over a very scenic overview and noticed a jeep trail that passed through the yard of a farmhouse and appeared to snake its way down to the river. I thought for a moment about asking permission to trespass and hike down the trail to the river, but then reconsidered as it was quite a long way to hike in (and out), and I felt a bit uncomfortable about disturbing the locals this far off the beaten path. But then I reconsidered...I had come a hell of a long way to get to New Zealand, and was there with my rental car, without the kids (who were in very good hands), with my fishing gear in the back seat, and with a day to spare. It seemed a bit ludricrous to let a moment of insecurity stop me from potentially seeing the river up close, and maybe getting a chance to cast a line. So I drove down to the sheep gate, let myself through, drove across the fields to the house, and pulled up in the driveway. The woman of the house spotted me through the window and came out. She asked if she could help me, so I handed her my business card, and briefly explained that I was in NZ with a bunch of students who were on a river trip, and that I was researching information about the river that ran in the canyon through her backyard, and wondered if she could answer some questions about water flow rates, flood regularity, campsites, fishing, etc? She was very accommodating, and we talked for about 15 minutes. Then she mentioned that her husband who was much more knowledgable was guiding some fishing clients on the river and was going to arrive at take-out at the end of the jeep trail in a few hours, but if I could drive a 4WD, I was welcome to save her some time and drive the jeep down to the river and wait for him. A few minutes later, I could not believe the change in my luck. I was driving down the mile-long access trail in a 4WD, fishing gear in the passenger seat, with permission to fish the private stretch of river at the end of the road. I worked my way down the double-track through some steep slick patches, and out on to the gravel bar at the riverside where the road ended. The river was beautiful; crystal clear, rocky runs into deep pools. The flow was in the range of a few hundred cfs, the shores were wide gravel bars with plenty of room to backcast, and the shallows were easily wadable. I worked my way to the top of the first hundred-meter long riffle, tied on a copper john, and proceeded to nymph the run. Cast upstream, strip, swing and lift, retrieve. Step to the left, cast upstream, strip, swing and lift, retrieve, Step to the left, etc. About halfway down the run, I got my first hit. Something fairly solid slammed the nymph, then took off across the stream. I breathed a small 'thank you', raised my tip to set the hook, and nothing. Hmm. I stepped to the left, cast upstream, striped, swung the nymph and lifted....and BAM, another huge hit. Again, I raised the tip to set the hook, and nothing. I retrieved the nymph and checked the hook; sharp and shiny, but maybe the gape was a little closed. I bent the gap open a bit, took a step to the left, cast upstream, stripped, swung and lifted, retrieved. After a few dozen more casts, again I got slammed by something large and again it spit out my hook. By the time the raft came drifting down, I had gotten a half dozen world-class hits, but none of them had been on my hook for more than a few seconds before the LDR. Sadly, I reeled up and walked down to the raft, introduced myself, and hopped in for the ride back to the top of the cliff. Michael, the guide, was very congenial, and after a bit of chatting I decided to spend the night at his place (his 'farmhouse' turned out to be a rather exclusive fishing camp), and the next morning his client Stewart and I took the 4-wheeler back down to the river to fish some more. We headed downstream from the run I had nymphed the previous evening, and tied up a slightly different rig. Where I had been nymphing a solo copper john before, this time I tied on a larger copper john 12 feet below a strike indicator, then a smaller stonefly imitation a few feet below the CJ on a dropper tied at the bend. I was using a new 4x tapered leader, with a 5x tippet for the dropper. It was harder to cast this rig, but it was the usual set-up for this river, according to Stephen and Stewart (who had caught two 5-pounder Rainbows the previous day). The run itself was unproductive, but at the bottom of the rapid the river piled into the wall, forming an undercut and a deep blue pool inside the bend. I cast the nymph across the current, let it wash through the undercut and into the deep pool, then WHAMMO! I got hit very hard. I pulled back, there was a brief flash of silver deep in the pool, then nothing. Damn. I retrived my rig, and saw that the 4x leader had parted right above the top nymph like it was a wet noodle. I inspected the break to see if it had come free at a knot, but the break was clean with no pigtail...it was a straight break-off. Wow, that must have been a huge fish to snap my leader so easily. Unfortunately, it was also a very skittish fish as it did not hit again. I got a few more hits in the runout of the pool, but they were much smaller. Within a few hours, it was time for me to go, so Stewart and I piled onto the 4-wheeler, and reluctantly drove up out of the river valley and back to the lodge. In the end, I did not bring anything to hand, and I'm not sure why. I did get about a dozen HARD hits, but I suspect that I am underestimating how hard the beaks are on these large trout, and am not setting the hook hard enough. My instictive setting motion is based on years of catching smaller fish, so its hard to override muscle memory at that moment and really yank back. The one big hit I got that took my hardware was probably a huge fish...the river is known to have a few resident 10 pounders, and of course it gets larger in retrospect, but I'm sure I missed the largest fish of my life just then. In any case, it was a magical evening and morning on the Rangitikei, and I am psyched to make arrangements to go back to Stephen's lodge for a week without the overriding obligation to my students or the school, where I can really indulge myself and enjoy some more New Zealand fly fishing. --riverman |
Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On Mar 26, 12:37 am, "riverman" wrote:
On Mar 26, 12:15 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote: "riverman" wrote in message roups.com... On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote: fine trip! Yes, it was. BTW, check out this linkhttp://www.tarata.co.nz/andgo to 'virtual tour'. The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where I got the big hit. Such a beautiful stretch of water. --riverman Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are the guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Can't speak definitively for the whole region, but last year another roffian and I stayed herehttp://tinyurl.com/3dym2rfor NZ$90 per night, combined. We hired a top-notch local guide for NZ$100 per day. He was well worth the cost. The lodge on the Rangitikei where I stayed was NZ$80 per night, but I don't know if Stephen charged a separate guiding fee, as I didn't use his services. All in all, I think you'll find NZ to be relatively cheap. Its like a blast back to the 1970s. --riverman I can't say where you were but in the area I go guides are $400 minimum and I paid $600 most of the time. Also the only place we stayed that was close to you was Lumsden Motel at $85 and you it sure isn't posh. |
Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
"David F" wrote in message ups.com... On Mar 26, 12:37 am, "riverman" wrote: On Mar 26, 12:15 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote: "riverman" wrote in message roups.com... On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote: fine trip! Yes, it was. BTW, check out this linkhttp://www.tarata.co.nz/andgo to 'virtual tour'. The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where I got the big hit. Such a beautiful stretch of water. --riverman Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are the guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Can't speak definitively for the whole region, but last year another roffian and I stayed herehttp://tinyurl.com/3dym2rfor NZ$90 per night, combined. We hired a top-notch local guide for NZ$100 per day. He was well worth the cost. The lodge on the Rangitikei where I stayed was NZ$80 per night, but I don't know if Stephen charged a separate guiding fee, as I didn't use his services. All in all, I think you'll find NZ to be relatively cheap. Its like a blast back to the 1970s. --riverman I can't say where you were but in the area I go guides are $400 minimum and I paid $600 most of the time. Also the only place we stayed that was close to you was Lumsden Motel at $85 and you it sure isn't posh. Looking at a couple of websites, seems as if the going rate is $350+ / day NZ. |
Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On Mar 27, 11:49 am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"David F" wrote in message ups.com... On Mar 26, 12:37 am, "riverman" wrote: On Mar 26, 12:15 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote: "riverman" wrote in message roups.com... On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote: fine trip! Yes, it was. BTW, check out this linkhttp://www.tarata.co.nz/andgoto 'virtual tour'. The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where I got the big hit. Such a beautiful stretch of water. --riverman Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are the guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Can't speak definitively for the whole region, but last year another roffian and I stayed herehttp://tinyurl.com/3dym2rforNZ$90 per night, combined. We hired a top-notch local guide for NZ$100 per day. He was well worth the cost. The lodge on the Rangitikei where I stayed was NZ$80 per night, but I don't know if Stephen charged a separate guiding fee, as I didn't use his services. All in all, I think you'll find NZ to be relatively cheap. Its like a blast back to the 1970s. --riverman I can't say where you were but in the area I go guides are $400 minimum and I paid $600 most of the time. Also the only place we stayed that was close to you was Lumsden Motel at $85 and you it sure isn't posh. Looking at a couple of websites, seems as if the going rate is $350+ / day NZ.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yeah, you guys both are correct. I was remembering wrong, and went back through my records last night. The guide we hired in Taupo was NZ $350 a day, which is closer to US$300 and a whole lot more than I stated earlier. The housing costs are correct, but these were pretty bare-bones accommodations. The lodge on the Rangitikei was a bit nicer than the Waitahanui lodge, but both were perfect for coming back to after a day of fishing. --riverman |
Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
"riverman" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote: fine trip! Yes, it was. BTW, check out this link http://www.tarata.co.nz/ and go to 'virtual tour'. The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where I got the big hit. Such a beautiful stretch of water. --riverman I have some fine trips and done some great things, but the most memorable, and when I've ended up sitting on the dock of the bay, or on the back porch... john |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Peter Collin |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin"
wrote: Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Peter Collin Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-) I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a region with 5+ pounders? --riverman |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
riverman wrote:
On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin" wrote: Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Peter Collin Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-) I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a region with 5+ pounders? I don't claim to be a "better catcher" of big fish than anyone else, but I think you're on to something. Big trout have tougher, harder mouths than small trout, IMO. My suspicion is that you were playing the fish too gently in the beginning, even for 5x tippet. On the other hand, maybe you were just unlucky that day. Everyone's had infuriating runs of missed strikes and pull-outs. When I hook up on a big fish I usually try to "set the hook" on its first run. Great TR, riverman. You were snakebit on that trip, but it sounds like you still had fun. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On 27 Mar 2007 04:26:37 -0700, "riverman" wrote:
On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin" wrote: Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Peter Collin Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-) I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a region with 5+ pounders? --riverman Um, "setting the hook?" How were you two going about "setting the hook?" If y'all were "snatching" the rod up, that'd be the problem. If you have any "slack," it'll be all the worse. TC, R |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
... Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul hooks were just coming loose. Joe F. |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On Mar 28, 9:09 am, wrote:
On 27 Mar 2007 04:26:37 -0700, "riverman" wrote: On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin" wrote: Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Peter Collin Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-) I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a region with 5+ pounders? --riverman Um, "setting the hook?" How were you two going about "setting the hook?" If y'all were "snatching" the rod up, that'd be the problem. If you have any "slack," it'll be all the worse. TC, R- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I was keeping a tight line...I can say it definitively because all of my takes were during the lift while I was nymphing. With smaller fish, I just lift the tip and pull back firmly when I feel a take, but not with any sort of 'snap' or sudden jerk. In fact, I think the fish pretty much set the hook themselves and I'm just reinforcing the idea. But with larger fish, I wonder if I have to really HAUL back on the rod. --riverman |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On 27 Mar 2007 18:40:54 -0700, "riverman" wrote:
On Mar 28, 9:09 am, wrote: On 27 Mar 2007 04:26:37 -0700, "riverman" wrote: I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a region with 5+ pounders? --riverman Um, "setting the hook?" How were you two going about "setting the hook?" If y'all were "snatching" the rod up, that'd be the problem. If you have any "slack," it'll be all the worse. TC, R- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I was keeping a tight line...I can say it definitively because all of my takes were during the lift while I was nymphing. With smaller fish, I just lift the tip and pull back firmly when I feel a take, but not with any sort of 'snap' or sudden jerk. In fact, I think the fish pretty much set the hook themselves and I'm just reinforcing the idea. But with larger fish, I wonder if I have to really HAUL back on the rod. --riverman While I'll wait for the definition of "HAUL back on the rod," I suspect we have our answer. Being fully prepared for the, um, replies, I think you'll find "setting the hook" is often as much the part of the quarry as the fisher. That said, without knowing more about what you did, I'd not attempt to troubleshoot it. I will say, however, that attempting to jam a unsharpened (no, I don't mean "dull," I mean _unsharpened_) hook into the mouth of a large fish with the tip of the rod...oh, like say a 3 wt. catching fish too large for it...with a sudden "snatch" will often fail. Hey, IIRC, you're a math guy - think about the angle of the line to the fish, and if you must, the force required, Greek letters, pi, the cosine of the tangent, etc. when you attempt to set the hook, and consider what you are trying to stick into what...OK, so there's a gimme... TC, R |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608"
wrote: "Peter A. Collin" wrote in message .. . Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul hooks were just coming loose. Joe F. Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker... TC, and HTH, R |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On Mar 27, 11:18 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608" wrote: "Peter A. Collin" wrote in message .. . Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul hooks were just coming loose. Joe F. Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker... TC, and HTH, R I'm baffled by this whole question. I've been pondering what I do......seems like I just raise the rod and keep tension. I do wonder if my hooks were sharp when I miss a fish but usually a pull out just ****es me off and I figure it's bad luck. From salt water fishing, I can tell you about setting or not with a hook. If you don't set a hook, then when the line tension lets up, the fish spits and it's gone. You keep and fight the fish until a loss of tension. That's nothing like losing a big trout. I had four straight pull outs on takes from large browns on the Mataura one afternoon this year and my answer was a temper tantrum. |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On Mar 30, 8:42 am, "David F" wrote:
On Mar 27, 11:18 pm, wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608" wrote: "Peter A. Collin" wrote in message .. . Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul hooks were just coming loose. Joe F. Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker... TC, and HTH, R I'm baffled by this whole question. I've been pondering what I do......seems like I just raise the rod and keep tension. I'm not only baffled by the question, but struggling with the terminology and semantics. For example, when I say 'set the hook', I think some folks (rdean) might be visualizing something different than what I am visualizing. I like how you describe it. Here is an infomal range of reactions when a fish strikes, from least reactive to most: 1) Do nothing, and expect the running fish to implant the hook itself 2) gently raise the rod tip, about as hard as you do when high-stick nymphing or mending. You may or may not take all the tension out of the line 3) Lift the rod tip enough to remove all tension, but not enough to move the fly significantly. This is about as much force as you exert when keeping a drifting nymph in the upright position 4) Raise the rod tip enough to take out all tension, and to pull the fly toward you. This would be enough to cause a small fish (say, a trout less than 6-8 inches) to be turned, but not to be dragged. 5) Raise the rod tip back enough to pull a fish toward you momentarily. This would be like the force exhibited when retrieving 10-15 feet of line to roll-cast. 5) Pull back firmly on the rod tip as hard as if you were false- casting. If there is slack in the line, it would be removed with a small 'snap'. 6) Pull back on the rod tip very hard, with force equivalent to that you would use to yank a fly out that had entangled in some tall grasses or a leafy tree. If there is slack in the line, it would possibly break the tippet. 7) Yank back on the rod tip very violently, with force that would cause the rod to 'sing' in the air 8) Yank back with all your strength. Personally, I tend to use force in the #4- range, but I suspect that with large fish, its better to use force in the #5+ range. But ensuring that there is no slack in the line. --riverman |
TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
On 29 Mar 2007 17:42:44 -0700, "David F"
wrote: On Mar 27, 11:18 pm, wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608" wrote: "Peter A. Collin" wrote in message .. . Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong. Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul hooks were just coming loose. Joe F. Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker... TC, and HTH, R I'm baffled by this whole question. I've been pondering what I do......seems like I just raise the rod and keep tension. I do wonder if my hooks were sharp when I miss a fish but usually a pull out just ****es me off and I figure it's bad luck. From salt water fishing, I can tell you about setting or not with a hook. If you don't set a hook, then when the line tension lets up, the fish spits and it's gone. You keep and fight the fish until a loss of tension. That's nothing like losing a big trout. I had four straight pull outs on takes from large browns on the Mataura one afternoon this year and my answer was a temper tantrum. If fishing causes you "temper tantrums," SOMETHING ain't right. That said, if you have sal****er experience, think about how the hook is set with tarpon versus, say, specks or redfish. First and foremost when fishing for larger quarry with hard mouths, sharpen your hooks. It's not a bad idea with _all_ hooks, but it is especially important with such quarry. Then think about what you are doing when you try to set the hook with something as flexible as a flyrod (and fly line) versus a boat rod (with mono). Think about tarpon - you set with the line hand after the run has begun, not with the rod (really, the rod tip..hint, hint) the instant the fly is hit. With such hard-mouth running quarry, make the fish a "partner" in setting the hook. Finally, accept an occasional missed solid hookup as just another part of fishing...and not catching. HTH, R |
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