TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

My school sends the HS kids on outdoor-related experiences each year.
These can take many forms. ranging from cultural excursions to Vienna,
service-related trips to VietNam building houses, or mountain climbing
expeditions to Indonesia. Twenty kids go on each trip, which last a
week in duration. During the week, we have about 50 of these trips
going out, all over the planet.

This year, I decided to create my own trip and combine two of my great
loves and create a river-running (canoeing) and flyfishing trip to New
Zealand. After much on-line research, I chose the Rangitikei River on
the west coast of the North Island as the venue. Its a naturally fed
river, with a bell-shaped flow curve throughout the summer season, but
with occasional floods. The river is deeply entrenched in some chalk
and limestone cliffs, and carves sharp bends with deep pools
throughout its length across the western New Zealand countryside. It
tends to flow in the range of several cubic feet per second, but with
occasional floods in the tens of hundreds of CFS. It is also known to
have some rather immense rainbows.

Months of prep work went into the trip: I made arrangements with
outfitters for canoes and guides, contacted land agents to arrange
transportation and hotels on each end of the trip, presented the trip
idea at an open marketplace, got a full slate of students signed up,
and ran a series of pre-trip orientation meetings where I taught the
kids everything from how to paddle their canoes to how to set up a
tent to what to pack and where to buy it. I inspected their gear,
recommended packs and sleeping bags, sent permission forms home,
arranged visas and travel permits, made copies of passports and HK ID
cards, and finally after all that prep work, last week we were on our
way.

Unfortunately, I also came down with a bout of bronchitis the day
before the trip departed. I spent the entire flight to NZ with the
chills and fever, and by the time we arrived in Wellington, spent the
night at a hostel, and transported ourselves to the river region north
of there, I was far too sick to participate in the trip. Because of
the threat high water from some impending rains, at the last minute we
changed the river venue to the Whanganui, which is steady class 1-2
fla****er, and much less formidable. After one night on the water it
became incredibly obvious that I should not be on-river, so I excused
myself, left the kids in the capable hands of our three river guides,
and went back to the base camp to recuperate for the week.

After two days and a handful of medicines, the fever and chills were
replaced with total boredom. Since I was already in-country, and
because there was so much about the Rangitikei I was unfamiliar with,
I rented a car and drove to the river region so that I could scout the
river throughout its length. Also, the threatened rains did not
materialize, so I wanted to see what the access routes and river basin
was like.

As I stated, most of the river is deeply entrenched, so it was
difficult to get a good look at much of the watershed. What I could
see showed me a crystal clear stream, snaking its way down a very deep
vertical-walled canyon, piling into the wall at turns, carving
cavernous overhangs and deep blue pools. At one point, I was looking
over a very scenic overview and noticed a jeep trail that passed
through the yard of a farmhouse and appeared to snake its way down to
the river. I thought for a moment about asking permission to trespass
and hike down the trail to the river, but then reconsidered as it was
quite a long way to hike in (and out), and I felt a bit uncomfortable
about disturbing the locals this far off the beaten path.

But then I reconsidered...I had come a hell of a long way to get to
New Zealand, and was there with my rental car, without the kids (who
were in very good hands), with my fishing gear in the back seat, and
with a day to spare. It seemed a bit ludricrous to let a moment of
insecurity stop me from potentially seeing the river up close, and
maybe getting a chance to cast a line. So I drove down to the sheep
gate, let myself through, drove across the fields to the house, and
pulled up in the driveway.

The woman of the house spotted me through the window and came out. She
asked if she could help me, so I handed her my business card, and
briefly explained that I was in NZ with a bunch of students who were
on a river trip, and that I was researching information about the
river that ran in the canyon through her backyard, and wondered if she
could answer some questions about water flow rates, flood regularity,
campsites, fishing, etc?

She was very accommodating, and we talked for about 15 minutes. Then
she mentioned that her husband who was much more knowledgable was
guiding some fishing clients on the river and was going to arrive at
take-out at the end of the jeep trail in a few hours, but if I could
drive a 4WD, I was welcome to save her some time and drive the jeep
down to the river and wait for him.

A few minutes later, I could not believe the change in my luck. I was
driving down the mile-long access trail in a 4WD, fishing gear in the
passenger seat, with permission to fish the private stretch of river
at the end of the road. I worked my way down the double-track through
some steep slick patches, and out on to the gravel bar at the
riverside where the road ended.

The river was beautiful; crystal clear, rocky runs into deep pools.
The flow was in the range of a few hundred cfs, the shores were wide
gravel bars with plenty of room to backcast, and the shallows were
easily wadable.

I worked my way to the top of the first hundred-meter long riffle,
tied on a copper john, and proceeded to nymph the run. Cast upstream,
strip, swing and lift, retrieve. Step to the left, cast upstream,
strip, swing and lift, retrieve, Step to the left, etc. About halfway
down the run, I got my first hit. Something fairly solid slammed the
nymph, then took off across the stream. I breathed a small 'thank
you', raised my tip to set the hook, and nothing. Hmm. I stepped to
the left, cast upstream, striped, swung the nymph and lifted....and
BAM, another huge hit. Again, I raised the tip to set the hook, and
nothing.

I retrieved the nymph and checked the hook; sharp and shiny, but maybe
the gape was a little closed. I bent the gap open a bit, took a step
to the left, cast upstream, stripped, swung and lifted, retrieved.
After a few dozen more casts, again I got slammed by something large
and again it spit out my hook.

By the time the raft came drifting down, I had gotten a half dozen
world-class hits, but none of them had been on my hook for more than a
few seconds before the LDR. Sadly, I reeled up and walked down to the
raft, introduced myself, and hopped in for the ride back to the top of
the cliff. Michael, the guide, was very congenial, and after a bit of
chatting I decided to spend the night at his place (his 'farmhouse'
turned out to be a rather exclusive fishing camp), and the next
morning his client Stewart and I took the 4-wheeler back down to the
river to fish some more.

We headed downstream from the run I had nymphed the previous evening,
and tied up a slightly different rig. Where I had been nymphing a solo
copper john before, this time I tied on a larger copper john 12 feet
below a strike indicator, then a smaller stonefly imitation a few feet
below the CJ on a dropper tied at the bend. I was using a new 4x
tapered leader, with a 5x tippet for the dropper. It was harder to
cast this rig, but it was the usual set-up for this river, according
to Stephen and Stewart (who had caught two 5-pounder Rainbows the
previous day).

The run itself was unproductive, but at the bottom of the rapid the
river piled into the wall, forming an undercut and a deep blue pool
inside the bend. I cast the nymph across the current, let it wash
through the undercut and into the deep pool, then WHAMMO! I got hit
very hard. I pulled back, there was a brief flash of silver deep in
the pool, then nothing. Damn. I retrived my rig, and saw that the 4x
leader had parted right above the top nymph like it was a wet noodle.
I inspected the break to see if it had come free at a knot, but the
break was clean with no pigtail...it was a straight break-off. Wow,
that must have been a huge fish to snap my leader so easily.
Unfortunately, it was also a very skittish fish as it did not hit
again. I got a few more hits in the runout of the pool, but they were
much smaller. Within a few hours, it was time for me to go, so Stewart
and I piled onto the 4-wheeler, and reluctantly drove up out of the
river valley and back to the lodge.

In the end, I did not bring anything to hand, and I'm not sure why. I
did get about a dozen HARD hits, but I suspect that I am
underestimating how hard the beaks are on these large trout, and am
not setting the hook hard enough. My instictive setting motion is
based on years of catching smaller fish, so its hard to override
muscle memory at that moment and really yank back. The one big hit I
got that took my hardware was probably a huge fish...the river is
known to have a few resident 10 pounders, and of course it gets larger
in retrospect, but I'm sure I missed the largest fish of my life just
then.

In any case, it was a magical evening and morning on the Rangitikei,
and I am psyched to make arrangements to go back to Stephen's lodge
for a week without the overriding obligation to my students or the
school, where I can really indulge myself and enjoy some more New
Zealand fly fishing.

--riverman

Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote:
fine trip!


Yes, it was.

BTW, check out this link http://www.tarata.co.nz/ and go to 'virtual
tour'.
The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was
standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass
to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream
the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where
I got the big hit.

Such a beautiful stretch of water.

--riverman

Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote:
fine trip!


Yes, it was.

BTW, check out this link http://www.tarata.co.nz/ and go to 'virtual
tour'.
The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was
standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass
to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream
the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where
I got the big hit.

Such a beautiful stretch of water.

--riverman


Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are the
guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site.

Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On Mar 26, 12:15 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"riverman" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote:
fine trip!

Yes, it was.

BTW, check out this linkhttp://www.tarata.co.nz/and go to 'virtual
tour'.
The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was
standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass
to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream
the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where
I got the big hit.

Such a beautiful stretch of water.

--riverman

Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are the
guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can't speak definitively for the whole region, but last year another
roffian and I stayed here http://tinyurl.com/3dym2r for NZ$90 per
night, combined. We hired a top-notch local guide for NZ$100 per day.
He was well worth the cost.

The lodge on the Rangitikei where I stayed was NZ$80 per night, but I
don't know if Stephen charged a separate guiding fee, as I didn't use
his services.

All in all, I think you'll find NZ to be relatively cheap. Its like a
blast back to the 1970s.

--riverman

Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

fine trip!


"riverman" wrote in message
ups.com...
My school sends the HS kids on outdoor-related experiences each year.
These can take many forms. ranging from cultural excursions to Vienna,
service-related trips to VietNam building houses, or mountain climbing
expeditions to Indonesia. Twenty kids go on each trip, which last a
week in duration. During the week, we have about 50 of these trips
going out, all over the planet.

This year, I decided to create my own trip and combine two of my great
loves and create a river-running (canoeing) and flyfishing trip to New
Zealand. After much on-line research, I chose the Rangitikei River on
the west coast of the North Island as the venue. Its a naturally fed
river, with a bell-shaped flow curve throughout the summer season, but
with occasional floods. The river is deeply entrenched in some chalk
and limestone cliffs, and carves sharp bends with deep pools
throughout its length across the western New Zealand countryside. It
tends to flow in the range of several cubic feet per second, but with
occasional floods in the tens of hundreds of CFS. It is also known to
have some rather immense rainbows.

Months of prep work went into the trip: I made arrangements with
outfitters for canoes and guides, contacted land agents to arrange
transportation and hotels on each end of the trip, presented the trip
idea at an open marketplace, got a full slate of students signed up,
and ran a series of pre-trip orientation meetings where I taught the
kids everything from how to paddle their canoes to how to set up a
tent to what to pack and where to buy it. I inspected their gear,
recommended packs and sleeping bags, sent permission forms home,
arranged visas and travel permits, made copies of passports and HK ID
cards, and finally after all that prep work, last week we were on our
way.

Unfortunately, I also came down with a bout of bronchitis the day
before the trip departed. I spent the entire flight to NZ with the
chills and fever, and by the time we arrived in Wellington, spent the
night at a hostel, and transported ourselves to the river region north
of there, I was far too sick to participate in the trip. Because of
the threat high water from some impending rains, at the last minute we
changed the river venue to the Whanganui, which is steady class 1-2
fla****er, and much less formidable. After one night on the water it
became incredibly obvious that I should not be on-river, so I excused
myself, left the kids in the capable hands of our three river guides,
and went back to the base camp to recuperate for the week.

After two days and a handful of medicines, the fever and chills were
replaced with total boredom. Since I was already in-country, and
because there was so much about the Rangitikei I was unfamiliar with,
I rented a car and drove to the river region so that I could scout the
river throughout its length. Also, the threatened rains did not
materialize, so I wanted to see what the access routes and river basin
was like.

As I stated, most of the river is deeply entrenched, so it was
difficult to get a good look at much of the watershed. What I could
see showed me a crystal clear stream, snaking its way down a very deep
vertical-walled canyon, piling into the wall at turns, carving
cavernous overhangs and deep blue pools. At one point, I was looking
over a very scenic overview and noticed a jeep trail that passed
through the yard of a farmhouse and appeared to snake its way down to
the river. I thought for a moment about asking permission to trespass
and hike down the trail to the river, but then reconsidered as it was
quite a long way to hike in (and out), and I felt a bit uncomfortable
about disturbing the locals this far off the beaten path.

But then I reconsidered...I had come a hell of a long way to get to
New Zealand, and was there with my rental car, without the kids (who
were in very good hands), with my fishing gear in the back seat, and
with a day to spare. It seemed a bit ludricrous to let a moment of
insecurity stop me from potentially seeing the river up close, and
maybe getting a chance to cast a line. So I drove down to the sheep
gate, let myself through, drove across the fields to the house, and
pulled up in the driveway.

The woman of the house spotted me through the window and came out. She
asked if she could help me, so I handed her my business card, and
briefly explained that I was in NZ with a bunch of students who were
on a river trip, and that I was researching information about the
river that ran in the canyon through her backyard, and wondered if she
could answer some questions about water flow rates, flood regularity,
campsites, fishing, etc?

She was very accommodating, and we talked for about 15 minutes. Then
she mentioned that her husband who was much more knowledgable was
guiding some fishing clients on the river and was going to arrive at
take-out at the end of the jeep trail in a few hours, but if I could
drive a 4WD, I was welcome to save her some time and drive the jeep
down to the river and wait for him.

A few minutes later, I could not believe the change in my luck. I was
driving down the mile-long access trail in a 4WD, fishing gear in the
passenger seat, with permission to fish the private stretch of river
at the end of the road. I worked my way down the double-track through
some steep slick patches, and out on to the gravel bar at the
riverside where the road ended.

The river was beautiful; crystal clear, rocky runs into deep pools.
The flow was in the range of a few hundred cfs, the shores were wide
gravel bars with plenty of room to backcast, and the shallows were
easily wadable.

I worked my way to the top of the first hundred-meter long riffle,
tied on a copper john, and proceeded to nymph the run. Cast upstream,
strip, swing and lift, retrieve. Step to the left, cast upstream,
strip, swing and lift, retrieve, Step to the left, etc. About halfway
down the run, I got my first hit. Something fairly solid slammed the
nymph, then took off across the stream. I breathed a small 'thank
you', raised my tip to set the hook, and nothing. Hmm. I stepped to
the left, cast upstream, striped, swung the nymph and lifted....and
BAM, another huge hit. Again, I raised the tip to set the hook, and
nothing.

I retrieved the nymph and checked the hook; sharp and shiny, but maybe
the gape was a little closed. I bent the gap open a bit, took a step
to the left, cast upstream, stripped, swung and lifted, retrieved.
After a few dozen more casts, again I got slammed by something large
and again it spit out my hook.

By the time the raft came drifting down, I had gotten a half dozen
world-class hits, but none of them had been on my hook for more than a
few seconds before the LDR. Sadly, I reeled up and walked down to the
raft, introduced myself, and hopped in for the ride back to the top of
the cliff. Michael, the guide, was very congenial, and after a bit of
chatting I decided to spend the night at his place (his 'farmhouse'
turned out to be a rather exclusive fishing camp), and the next
morning his client Stewart and I took the 4-wheeler back down to the
river to fish some more.

We headed downstream from the run I had nymphed the previous evening,
and tied up a slightly different rig. Where I had been nymphing a solo
copper john before, this time I tied on a larger copper john 12 feet
below a strike indicator, then a smaller stonefly imitation a few feet
below the CJ on a dropper tied at the bend. I was using a new 4x
tapered leader, with a 5x tippet for the dropper. It was harder to
cast this rig, but it was the usual set-up for this river, according
to Stephen and Stewart (who had caught two 5-pounder Rainbows the
previous day).

The run itself was unproductive, but at the bottom of the rapid the
river piled into the wall, forming an undercut and a deep blue pool
inside the bend. I cast the nymph across the current, let it wash
through the undercut and into the deep pool, then WHAMMO! I got hit
very hard. I pulled back, there was a brief flash of silver deep in
the pool, then nothing. Damn. I retrived my rig, and saw that the 4x
leader had parted right above the top nymph like it was a wet noodle.
I inspected the break to see if it had come free at a knot, but the
break was clean with no pigtail...it was a straight break-off. Wow,
that must have been a huge fish to snap my leader so easily.
Unfortunately, it was also a very skittish fish as it did not hit
again. I got a few more hits in the runout of the pool, but they were
much smaller. Within a few hours, it was time for me to go, so Stewart
and I piled onto the 4-wheeler, and reluctantly drove up out of the
river valley and back to the lodge.

In the end, I did not bring anything to hand, and I'm not sure why. I
did get about a dozen HARD hits, but I suspect that I am
underestimating how hard the beaks are on these large trout, and am
not setting the hook hard enough. My instictive setting motion is
based on years of catching smaller fish, so its hard to override
muscle memory at that moment and really yank back. The one big hit I
got that took my hardware was probably a huge fish...the river is
known to have a few resident 10 pounders, and of course it gets larger
in retrospect, but I'm sure I missed the largest fish of my life just
then.

In any case, it was a magical evening and morning on the Rangitikei,
and I am psyched to make arrangements to go back to Stephen's lodge
for a week without the overriding obligation to my students or the
school, where I can really indulge myself and enjoy some more New
Zealand fly fishing.

--riverman

Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On Mar 26, 12:37 am, "riverman" wrote:
On Mar 26, 12:15 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:



"riverman" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote:
fine trip!

Yes, it was.

BTW, check out this linkhttp://www.tarata.co.nz/andgo to 'virtual
tour'.
The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was
standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass
to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream
the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where
I got the big hit.

Such a beautiful stretch of water.

--riverman

Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are the
guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can't speak definitively for the whole region, but last year another
roffian and I stayed herehttp://tinyurl.com/3dym2rfor NZ$90 per
night, combined. We hired a top-notch local guide for NZ$100 per day.
He was well worth the cost.

The lodge on the Rangitikei where I stayed was NZ$80 per night, but I
don't know if Stephen charged a separate guiding fee, as I didn't use
his services.

All in all, I think you'll find NZ to be relatively cheap. Its like a
blast back to the 1970s.

--riverman

I can't say where you were but in the area I go guides are $400
minimum and I paid $600 most of the time. Also the only place we
stayed that was close to you was Lumsden Motel at $85 and you it sure
isn't posh.

Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

"David F" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 26, 12:37 am, "riverman" wrote:
On Mar 26, 12:15 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:



"riverman" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote:
fine trip!

Yes, it was.

BTW, check out this linkhttp://www.tarata.co.nz/andgo to 'virtual
tour'.
The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was
standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass
to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see
upstream
the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where
I got the big hit.

Such a beautiful stretch of water.

--riverman

Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are
the
guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can't speak definitively for the whole region, but last year another
roffian and I stayed herehttp://tinyurl.com/3dym2rfor NZ$90 per
night, combined. We hired a top-notch local guide for NZ$100 per day.
He was well worth the cost.

The lodge on the Rangitikei where I stayed was NZ$80 per night, but I
don't know if Stephen charged a separate guiding fee, as I didn't use
his services.

All in all, I think you'll find NZ to be relatively cheap. Its like a
blast back to the 1970s.

--riverman

I can't say where you were but in the area I go guides are $400
minimum and I paid $600 most of the time. Also the only place we
stayed that was close to you was Lumsden Motel at $85 and you it sure
isn't posh.



Looking at a couple of websites, seems as if the going rate is $350+ / day
NZ.

Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On Mar 27, 11:49 am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"David F" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Mar 26, 12:37 am, "riverman" wrote:
On Mar 26, 12:15 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:

"riverman" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote:
fine trip!

Yes, it was.

BTW, check out this linkhttp://www.tarata.co.nz/andgoto 'virtual
tour'.
The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was
standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass
to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see
upstream
the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where
I got the big hit.

Such a beautiful stretch of water.

--riverman

Going to NZ end of year according to SWMBO. What kind of prices are
the
guided trip and lodging? Is not on the web site.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can't speak definitively for the whole region, but last year another
roffian and I stayed herehttp://tinyurl.com/3dym2rforNZ$90 per
night, combined. We hired a top-notch local guide for NZ$100 per day.
He was well worth the cost.

The lodge on the Rangitikei where I stayed was NZ$80 per night, but I
don't know if Stephen charged a separate guiding fee, as I didn't use
his services.

All in all, I think you'll find NZ to be relatively cheap. Its like a
blast back to the 1970s.

--riverman

I can't say where you were but in the area I go guides are $400
minimum and I paid $600 most of the time. Also the only place we
stayed that was close to you was Lumsden Motel at $85 and you it sure
isn't posh.

Looking at a couple of websites, seems as if the going rate is $350+ / day
NZ.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, you guys both are correct. I was remembering wrong, and went
back through my records last night. The guide we hired in Taupo was NZ
$350 a day, which is closer to US$300 and a whole lot more than I
stated earlier. The housing costs are correct, but these were pretty
bare-bones accommodations. The lodge on the Rangitikei was a bit nicer
than the Waitahanui lodge, but both were perfect for coming back to
after a day of fishing.

--riverman

Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 26, 1:11 pm, "asadi" wrote:
fine trip!


Yes, it was.

BTW, check out this link http://www.tarata.co.nz/ and go to 'virtual
tour'.
The original scene for the virtual tour is precisely where I was
standing when I saw the farmhouse and decided to go ask to tresspass
to get to the river. If you select 'river canyon', you'll see upstream
the run I fished on day 1, and downstream the undercut and pool where
I got the big hit.

Such a beautiful stretch of water.

--riverman


I have some fine trips and done some great things, but the most memorable,
and when I've ended up sitting on the dock of the bay, or on the back
porch...

john

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Peter Collin

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin"
wrote:
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Peter Collin

Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-)

I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some
of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a
big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough
as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a
region with 5+ pounders?

--riverman

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

riverman wrote:
On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin"
wrote:

Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Peter Collin


Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-)

I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some
of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a
big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough
as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a
region with 5+ pounders?

I don't claim to be a "better catcher" of big fish than anyone else, but
I think you're on to something. Big trout have tougher, harder mouths
than small trout, IMO. My suspicion is that you were playing the fish
too gently in the beginning, even for 5x tippet. On the other hand,
maybe you were just unlucky that day. Everyone's had infuriating runs of
missed strikes and pull-outs.

When I hook up on a big fish I usually try to "set the hook" on its
first run.

Great TR, riverman. You were snakebit on that trip, but it sounds like
you still had fun.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On 27 Mar 2007 04:26:37 -0700, "riverman" wrote:

On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin"
wrote:
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Peter Collin

Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-)

I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some
of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a
big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough
as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a
region with 5+ pounders?

--riverman

Um, "setting the hook?" How were you two going about "setting the
hook?" If y'all were "snatching" the rod up, that'd be the problem. If
you have any "slack," it'll be all the worse.

TC,
R

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
...
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On Mar 28, 9:09 am, wrote:
On 27 Mar 2007 04:26:37 -0700, "riverman" wrote:





On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin"
wrote:
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Peter Collin

Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-)

I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some
of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a
big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough
as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a
region with 5+ pounders?

--riverman

Um, "setting the hook?" How were you two going about "setting the
hook?" If y'all were "snatching" the rod up, that'd be the problem. If
you have any "slack," it'll be all the worse.

TC,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was keeping a tight line...I can say it definitively because all of
my takes were during the lift while I was nymphing. With smaller fish,
I just lift the tip and pull back firmly when I feel a take, but not
with any sort of 'snap' or sudden jerk. In fact, I think the fish
pretty much set the hook themselves and I'm just reinforcing the idea.
But with larger fish, I wonder if I have to really HAUL back on the
rod.

--riverman

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On 27 Mar 2007 18:40:54 -0700, "riverman" wrote:

On Mar 28, 9:09 am, wrote:
On 27 Mar 2007 04:26:37 -0700, "riverman" wrote:

I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some
of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a
big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough
as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a
region with 5+ pounders?

--riverman

Um, "setting the hook?" How were you two going about "setting the
hook?" If y'all were "snatching" the rod up, that'd be the problem. If
you have any "slack," it'll be all the worse.

TC,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was keeping a tight line...I can say it definitively because all of
my takes were during the lift while I was nymphing. With smaller fish,
I just lift the tip and pull back firmly when I feel a take, but not
with any sort of 'snap' or sudden jerk. In fact, I think the fish
pretty much set the hook themselves and I'm just reinforcing the idea.
But with larger fish, I wonder if I have to really HAUL back on the
rod.

--riverman

While I'll wait for the definition of "HAUL back on the rod," I suspect
we have our answer. Being fully prepared for the, um, replies, I think
you'll find "setting the hook" is often as much the part of the quarry
as the fisher. That said, without knowing more about what you did, I'd
not attempt to troubleshoot it. I will say, however, that attempting to
jam a unsharpened (no, I don't mean "dull," I mean _unsharpened_) hook
into the mouth of a large fish with the tip of the rod...oh, like say a
3 wt. catching fish too large for it...with a sudden "snatch" will often
fail. Hey, IIRC, you're a math guy - think about the angle of the line
to the fish, and if you must, the force required, Greek letters, pi, the
cosine of the tangent, etc. when you attempt to set the hook, and
consider what you are trying to stick into what...OK, so there's a
gimme...

TC,
R

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608"
wrote:

"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
.. .
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker...

TC, and HTH,
R

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On Mar 27, 11:18 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608"



wrote:
"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
.. .
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker...

TC, and HTH,
R

I'm baffled by this whole question. I've been pondering what I
do......seems like I just raise the rod and keep tension. I do wonder
if my hooks were sharp when I miss a fish but usually a pull out just
****es me off and I figure it's bad luck. From salt water fishing, I
can tell you about setting or not with a hook. If you don't set a
hook, then when the line tension lets up, the fish spits and it's
gone. You keep and fight the fish until a loss of tension. That's
nothing like losing a big trout. I had four straight pull outs on
takes from large browns on the Mataura one afternoon this year and my
answer was a temper tantrum.

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On Mar 30, 8:42 am, "David F" wrote:
On Mar 27, 11:18 pm, wrote:





On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608"

wrote:
"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
.. .
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker...

TC, and HTH,
R

I'm baffled by this whole question. I've been pondering what I
do......seems like I just raise the rod and keep tension.

I'm not only baffled by the question, but struggling with the
terminology and semantics. For example, when I say 'set the hook', I
think some folks (rdean) might be visualizing something different than
what I am visualizing. I like how you describe it.

Here is an infomal range of reactions when a fish strikes, from least
reactive to most:
1) Do nothing, and expect the running fish to implant the hook itself
2) gently raise the rod tip, about as hard as you do when high-stick
nymphing or mending. You may or may not take all the tension out of
the line
3) Lift the rod tip enough to remove all tension, but not enough to
move the fly significantly. This is about as much force as you exert
when keeping a drifting nymph in the upright position
4) Raise the rod tip enough to take out all tension, and to pull the
fly toward you. This would be enough to cause a small fish (say, a
trout less than 6-8 inches) to be turned, but not to be dragged.
5) Raise the rod tip back enough to pull a fish toward you
momentarily. This would be like the force exhibited when retrieving
10-15 feet of line to roll-cast.
5) Pull back firmly on the rod tip as hard as if you were false-
casting. If there is slack in the line, it would be removed with a
small 'snap'.
6) Pull back on the rod tip very hard, with force equivalent to that
you would use to yank a fly out that had entangled in some tall
grasses or a leafy tree. If there is slack in the line, it would
possibly break the tippet.
7) Yank back on the rod tip very violently, with force that would
cause the rod to 'sing' in the air
8) Yank back with all your strength.

Personally, I tend to use force in the #4- range, but I suspect that
with large fish, its better to use force in the #5+ range. But
ensuring that there is no slack in the line.

--riverman

TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)
 

On 29 Mar 2007 17:42:44 -0700, "David F"
wrote:

On Mar 27, 11:18 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608"



wrote:
"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
.. .
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker...

TC, and HTH,
R

I'm baffled by this whole question. I've been pondering what I
do......seems like I just raise the rod and keep tension. I do wonder
if my hooks were sharp when I miss a fish but usually a pull out just
****es me off and I figure it's bad luck. From salt water fishing, I
can tell you about setting or not with a hook. If you don't set a
hook, then when the line tension lets up, the fish spits and it's
gone. You keep and fight the fish until a loss of tension. That's
nothing like losing a big trout. I had four straight pull outs on
takes from large browns on the Mataura one afternoon this year and my
answer was a temper tantrum.

If fishing causes you "temper tantrums," SOMETHING ain't right. That
said, if you have sal****er experience, think about how the hook is set
with tarpon versus, say, specks or redfish.

First and foremost when fishing for larger quarry with hard mouths,
sharpen your hooks. It's not a bad idea with _all_ hooks, but it is
especially important with such quarry. Then think about what you are
doing when you try to set the hook with something as flexible as a
flyrod (and fly line) versus a boat rod (with mono). Think about tarpon
- you set with the line hand after the run has begun, not with the rod
(really, the rod tip..hint, hint) the instant the fly is hit. With such
hard-mouth running quarry, make the fish a "partner" in setting the
hook.

Finally, accept an occasional missed solid hookup as just another part
of fishing...and not catching.

HTH,
R