Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On Mar 29, 6:55 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom

Have a look here;

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/beginners/

It will tell you all you need to know to get started.

TL
MC

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:
I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?

Most folks recommend staying away from the kits because the
tools are often second-rate and you get a lot of materials
you'll never use.

Do a Google group search of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying
with the word "beginner", you'll get lots of good info.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in news:eugr19$q3v$1
@news.Stanford.EDU:

I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom



Tom--

Start with a reliable vise, a good ceramic bobbin, a bodkin, some
scissors, hackle pliers, and a whip finish tool. Buy any book by Skip
Morris, probably "Fly Tying Made Clear and Simple" would be best. I can
honestly say that his "Art of Tying the Dry Fly" was probably the best of
about four books that I went through during my early self teaching days,
and the one that made the biggest difference when I found it.

Buy the materials necessary to tie the first two flies in the Nymph
Chapter and the first two flies in the dry fly chapter, and the material
to tie any two flies that you've been wanting to tie on your own.

Try to buy a dubbing assortment for dries, and one for nymphs. These
will come in kits that run about $10-$15 each, I think.

For dry fly hackle, you might think of buying some Whiting 100-packs in
the appropriate size and color, but push comes to shove, a Whiting neck
or half neck in silver or bronze grade is probably your best bang for the
buck that will offer any sort of wide range in hackle size.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?


You've already gotten some good advice, Tom

I'll add .... quality materials

But there is a Catch22 ...... beginners don't 'really' know what quality is
yet

The suggestion I always give is to pick a fly you want to tie ( start with
wets/nymphs, they are easier ) and buy ONLY the materials for those specific
flies ... have your fly shop help you select the specific piece, not all
peacock is created equal for instance.

I once had Craig Mathews pick out a piece of deer hair for Sparkle Duns down
to 20s for me and explain his thinking as he did so ... volumes more info on
deer hair in 6 or 7 minutes than in all the books I've read ( and that be
plenty ) .... ask your shop guy to explain the whys of his picks ... if he
can't, find a shop that honestly caters to tiers ... many don't even though
they stock materials

IF you can't find a place locally, try calling BRF in West Yellowstone ( no
I don't get a kickback :-) ... tell them exactly what patterns/size you want
to tie and trust them to pick materials ... every single person in that
shop is a skilled and experienced tier ...they started business as a tiers
marketing co-op and "shop" came along later. I have Bay Area affections
and allegiances and I wait to buy say wading boots from my local shop, when
possible, but I also wait to buy materials in West

Oh, one more plug ... if you are seeking CDC .... TroutHunter in Last
Chance, Id. ( again they have a phone and can be trusted :-) there just
isn't any comparison to CDC you'll find elsewhere

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On Mar 29, 9:55 am, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom

Go over to the electronics lab and steal a set of these. Best hackle
pliers made.
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...0B01802085E17F

In addition start with the material to tie 2 or 3 patterns and tie and
tie and tie.

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
wrote in news:cr1o03hksdiqbvnbbtd8rm7q4c1h5blp89@
4ax.com:

IMO, don't get the whip tool until you can do it without one.


I actually agree, but it doesn't take more than about 15 minutes to learn
how to tie one by hand, and then the matarelli is right there waiting for
you.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Scott, I tried to send you email (by reversing your name) but it got
bounced back.
-tom

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

Scott Seidman wrote:
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in news:eugr19$q3v$1
@news.Stanford.EDU:


I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom




Tom--

Start with a reliable vise, a good ceramic bobbin, a bodkin, some
scissors, hackle pliers, and a whip finish tool. Buy any book by Skip
Morris, probably "Fly Tying Made Clear and Simple" would be best. I can
honestly say that his "Art of Tying the Dry Fly" was probably the best of
about four books that I went through during my early self teaching days,
and the one that made the biggest difference when I found it.

Buy the materials necessary to tie the first two flies in the Nymph
Chapter and the first two flies in the dry fly chapter, and the material
to tie any two flies that you've been wanting to tie on your own.

Try to buy a dubbing assortment for dries, and one for nymphs. These
will come in kits that run about $10-$15 each, I think.

For dry fly hackle, you might think of buying some Whiting 100-packs in
the appropriate size and color, but push comes to shove, a Whiting neck
or half neck in silver or bronze grade is probably your best bang for the
buck that will offer any sort of wide range in hackle size.

IMHO, spot on advice. The only thing I might add is, Tom, go to the
casting club. Tell someone you're interested in getting started in fly
tying. Someone is bound to take you under their wing. You'll most likely
get some good, firsthand instruction....and maybe some free stuff too. ;-)

brians

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

Books?
-tom


VIDEOS .... most shops rent videos and DVDs ( 'mine' does ) and seeing is
much easier to understand than reading, even reading w/pictures .... just
starting the thread on the hook can be confusing from words alone.


Specifics? Boy my favs would reflect my fishing and may not be appropriate
.... Mike Lawson's "tying for spring creeks and tailwaters" and Rene Harrop's
" mayfly or caddis life sequence" .... neither title is accurate but I'm too
lazy to go get them and look and you can find them by "author"


A basic "Fly tying for beginners" title would be a better start ... again
ask the shop, that's why those guys make the big bucks g

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On Mar 29, 6:55 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom

You can also find some videos for beginners here;

http://www.flyforums.co.uk/showpost....4&postcount=10

TL
MC

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:55:06 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom

IMO, get a Thompson "A," an enclosed bobbin, GOOD scissors, a bodkin,
some hemostats, and a scalpel. Then decide what patterns you wish to
tie. Look at the recipes and determine what materials you need. If you
_need_ more tools, then get them. Buy only what you _need_ to tie those
patterns you wish to tie. And don't get a whip tool at first - learn to
do it by hand, and then, if you feel the need, get a tool.

If you are generally "handy," just start tying from the recipes, which
are available on the web and any number of books. Tying, short of
full-dress salmons and the like, isn't particularly difficult if you are
generally "handy." If you aren't particularly "handy," and there's
nothing "wrong" with being such, there is at least some sort of tying
group, club, class, etc. in the Palo Alto area, I'm sure.

And whether you want/need instruction or are comfortable simply learning
from the web/books, try to learn from someone who is the same
"handedness" as you - IOW, if you're left-handed, try to find pics
showing left-handed tyers, or learn from a left-hander.

If you decide you like tying, and feel the need, then move up to
whatever of the several styles of "better" vises are available, but I'd
suggest trying as many as possible before you purchase.

Since you probably won't see this, it probably can't help,
R

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

Larry L wrote:

[snip of good advice just so I can nitpick one little thing]

Oh, one more plug ... if you are seeking CDC .... TroutHunter in Last
Chance, Id. ( again they have a phone and can be trusted :-) there just
isn't any comparison to CDC you'll find elsewhere

Actually, there may be. I've heard great things about Harrop's
stuff, but Marc Petitjean's CDC is the best I've ever used, by a long
shot. Interesting colors and really top-flight feathers.

The problem was, until fairly recently you couldn't find it here in
the states, but it appears that has changed:
http://www.bearlodgeangler.com/marc_petitjean.htm


Chuck Vance (no affiliation; that's just a site I ran across when
doing a Google search on Petitjean)

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On 29 Mar 2007 17:21:12 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote:

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in news:eugr19$q3v$1
:

I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom



Tom--

Start with a reliable vise, a good ceramic bobbin, a bodkin, some
scissors, hackle pliers, and a whip finish tool.

IMO, don't get the whip tool until you can do it without one. To me,
it's like learning to nail thing together with framing nailer or "do
math" by pushing calculator buttons. If you can't drive nails with a
hammer or add without HP, you'd better make damned sure you never need
to do so...and IMO, there's no way to do that...

TC,
R

Other reasonable advice snipped

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On Mar 29, 2:36 pm, wrote:
IMO, get a Thompson "A," an enclosed bobbin, GOOD scissors, a bodkin,
some hemostats, and a scalpel.

Lest this gem of advice get lost in the info about other materials,
tutorials, & other - rdean highlighted my favorite advice: GOOD
SCISSORS. When you hit the fly shop, you'll be shocked at what these
things cost; but there are few things better to have than good, sharp
scissors; and few things more frustrating than dull, cheap ones. I'd
rather have a cheap vise and good scissors than the reverse.

(And instead of (or until) a scalpel, a single edge razor blade will
do just fine.)

Joe F.

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

BJ Conner wrote:

Go over to the electronics lab and steal a set of these. Best hackle
pliers made.
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...0B01802085E17F

Agrred. Ever sice I started using mine, I've never looked back.

And if you don't have a lab handy, go the Radio Shack and ask for
their test probe adapter clips. Should set you back about $4.

In addition start with the material to tie 2 or 3 patterns and tie and
tie and tie.

That's probably the best advice of all. And as strange as it
sounds, enetering a swap wouldn't be such a bad idea, especially if it
was a "beginner's swap" with constructive criticism given by experienced
tiers. A swap will force you to learn a pattern very quickly.


Chuck Vance (of course it could also turn you off from tying
altogether :-)

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

"Conan The Librarian" wrote


Actually, there may be. I've heard great things about Harrop's stuff,
but Marc Petitjean's CDC is the best I've ever used, by a long shot.
Interesting colors and really top-flight feathers.

The problem was, until fairly recently you couldn't find it here in the
states, but it appears that has changed:
http://www.bearlodgeangler.com/marc_petitjean.htm


Chuck Vance (no affiliation; that's just a site I ran across when
doing a Google search on Petitjean)


In the sake of accuracy I should have said "that I've ever seen" or
something similar .... but aside coming I often find that if I were to
include all the disclaimers needed to avoid 'nitpickers' around here, a
369KB post would still end up all disclaimer and no information G end
aside Thanks Chuck, I'll get some petijean and try it


I also "think" but will not testify in court that Harry over at
http://www.troutflies.com/ sells Harrop CDC and he's a California boy, and.
thus, better than avearge G ( except maybe at spelling )

TOM, Harry's site also has Excellent tying tutorials for some patterns
here's one for the classic "first fly"

http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/hares_ear/

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

"rb608" wrote


tutorials, & other - rdean highlighted my favorite advice: GOOD
SCISSORS. When you hit the fly shop, you'll be shocked at what these
things cost; but there are few things better to have than good, sharp


Absolutely ... cheap = worthless .... get the best and treat them like you
paid as much for them as,.. well ... you'lll have to.

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

I agree with all the advice so far, but I must admit that I bought a
kit and I've been pretty happy with it so far. It came from Gander
Mtn. and was made by Rumpf. It was around 30 bucks and for the money I
think it was a good deal. It came with all kinds of stuff, including
vise, scissors, feathers, dubbing, head cement, bobbin, bodkin. simple
book, thread, tinsel, rubber legs, so much stuff I can't even name it
all, pretty much everything thing you would need. But it was a little
light on hooks, only like a dozen or so nymph dry and streamer hooks.
But still that is 3 dozen flies for 30 bucks, and enough crap left
over that I've tied well over 75 flies and have probably only spent 50
bucks total on new hooks and a few other odds and ends.

So personally I would reccomend the Rumpf, I know you don't get "GOOD"
quality stuff, but hey it got me tying without having to bore the
clerk at my fly shop with questions for two hours, or lament over
spending big bucks on a big fancy vise...

-Ethan

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On 29 Mar 2007 11:44:28 -0700, "rb608" wrote:

On Mar 29, 2:36 pm, wrote:
IMO, get a Thompson "A," an enclosed bobbin, GOOD scissors, a bodkin,
some hemostats, and a scalpel.

Lest this gem of advice get lost in the info about other materials,
tutorials, & other - rdean highlighted my favorite advice: GOOD
SCISSORS. When you hit the fly shop, you'll be shocked at what these
things cost; but there are few things better to have than good, sharp
scissors; and few things more frustrating than dull, cheap ones. I'd
rather have a cheap vise and good scissors than the reverse.

And don't use 'em for ANYTHING but tying. Trust me on this, and fight
the temptation.

(And instead of (or until) a scalpel, a single edge razor blade will
do just fine.)

The razor blade will work, of course. I have what I feel are important
reasons for a scalpel, though: first, the relatively large handle and
small blade are safer around a bench. A loose blade can get mixed up in
or otherwise in a place where it probably ought not to be a lot easier
than a scalpel, IMO/IME. And the handle also helps with control and,
um, "odd" usage techniques - for example, you can hold the scalpel in
your teeth...OTOH, picture if you will Frank holding a razor blade in
his teeth...plastic surgeons all over the area and several surrounding
states would be buying new Porsches, just on the off chance, and J & J
stock would jump 12%...

Seriously, there are all sorts of sources for "retired" medical scalpels
(and hemos, too) or simply buy a, um, not-quite-surgical-grade set (IOW,
a KPOS scalpel set). Or an Xacto "hobby chest" is a handy set for all
sorts of things - three handles, small, medium, and large and an
assortment of blades. I personally don't like Xactos with the pointed
"wedge" blade for general use (although for some things, they are just
the ticket), but the "hobby chest" has, or used to have, what looked
like a small scalpel blade on a small-handle Xacto type base in the
blade assortment.

TC,
R

Joe F.

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On Mar 29, 11:55 am, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom

I'm a newbie to fly tying. I tried getting a few books and after
searching the internet and reading posts from this group I bought some
tools & a vise. One person on this group recommended that I go to a
class first. He was 100% right. I wish now that I had just taken the
class FIRST, then I would have known what to buy (and what NOT to
buy).

The local class provided tools to use (and to purchase if we wanted
to.....but no pressure either way). Things that looked SO complicated
in the books, actually were VERY easy with a patient teacher working
with me. Instead of being stressed trying to figure out the book, I
had a TON of fun with other newbies tying flies. Man, the first flies
that I made were ugly as sin, but the teacher made me feel like I had
tied the most beautiful fly (but then he kindly told my how to improve
the NEXT one I tied). After a few classes, the flies actually began
to look decent (and catch fish).

After the class was over, the books then made WONDERFUL sense, and now
they are valuable references for me to keep. I looked at a ton of
books, but there are 3 that I bought and VERY much like (especially
for a newbie like me):

"The Fly-Tying Bible" by Peter Gathercole
"Trout Flies - The Tier's Reference" by Dave Hughes
"The Fly Tiers Benchside Reference to Techniques and Dressing Styles"
by Ted Leeson and Jim Schollmeyer

Also, to the people in this group that gave me advice, I want to say
"thanks" for the help. I have been having a lot of fun catching fish
and tying my own flies, thanks to you guys helping me get started on
the right foot.

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:55:06 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom


Something else I've noticed. There seems to be some recommendations
about materials, which is great _IF_ the novice is looking to start
tying such as would require the materials suggested. I realize Tom's
question related to his prior RFI, but for others reading this, they
might be in area where trout flies and the materials involved are of
little use. That's why I'd offer that as to materials, the novice
simply get whatever materials the recipe(s) they intend to tie call for.
OTOH, the tools and techniques are _generally_ similar enough in
character so that general advice as to tools, not buying a "kit," GOOD
scissors, etc. will assist any novice, anywhere.

TC,
R

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

On 29 Mar 2007 12:26:24 -0700, "Ethan" wrote:

I agree with all the advice so far, but I must admit that I bought a
kit and I've been pretty happy with it so far. It came from Gander
Mtn. and was made by Rumpf. It was around 30 bucks and for the money I
think it was a good deal. It came with all kinds of stuff, including
vise, scissors, feathers, dubbing, head cement, bobbin, bodkin. simple
book, thread, tinsel, rubber legs, so much stuff I can't even name it
all, pretty much everything thing you would need. But it was a little
light on hooks, only like a dozen or so nymph dry and streamer hooks.
But still that is 3 dozen flies for 30 bucks, and enough crap left
over that I've tied well over 75 flies and have probably only spent 50
bucks total on new hooks and a few other odds and ends.

So personally I would reccomend the Rumpf, I know you don't get "GOOD"
quality stuff, but hey it got me tying without having to bore the
clerk at my fly shop with questions for two hours, or lament over
spending big bucks on a big fancy vise...

-Ethan

The problem with kits are that one often gets all sorts of things they
don't need and can't use, and in such a case, it's money wasted. For
example, $1000USD worth of material for small dries isn't going to help
a bass or salt tyer very much, even if they could get it for $50.00. But
"value" is in the eye of the beholder, and if you think you got your
money's worth, then you did.

TC,
R

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

I earlier posted Altering Dry Flies to Wet Flies question, and
some suggested that I start to learn to tie the flies to get a better
understanding.
I think they're right.
recommendations for starter fly-tying?
Kits? Purchasing items separate? Books?
-tom


i'm a novice...and a self-taught novice at that.g trying to figure it
out from books and videos is often frustrating. i learn stuff better by
observing others do it (well, some things did come naturally - for you
perverse fukkers), and by asking questions. a few moments watching big
dale tie was better than hours of studying books on flytying. once you
get the stuff...find someone to show you how to use it. there are so
many shortcuts, methods, techniques, etc. to the art (and i think it is
art).

jeff (not an artist)

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

Larry L wrote:

"Conan The Librarian" wrote

Actually, there may be. I've heard great things about Harrop's stuff,
but Marc Petitjean's CDC is the best I've ever used, by a long shot.
Interesting colors and really top-flight feathers.

In the sake of accuracy I should have said "that I've ever seen" or
something similar .... but aside coming I often find that if I were to
include all the disclaimers needed to avoid 'nitpickers' around here, a
369KB post would still end up all disclaimer and no information G end
aside Thanks Chuck, I'll get some petijean and try it

Let me know how it compares to the Harrop stuff.

I also "think" but will not testify in court that Harry over at
http://www.troutflies.com/ sells Harrop CDC and he's a California boy, and.
thus, better than avearge G ( except maybe at spelling )

TOM, Harry's site also has Excellent tying tutorials for some patterns
here's one for the classic "first fly"

http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/hares_ear/

I can't believe I forgot to mention Harry's site. If someone
doesn't have access to a local fly tyer to watch, Harry's is the next
best thing. I learned so many of the basics (and some more advanced
techniques, as well) from his site. And his flies are top-notch.

Which brings me to another point: It's not a bad idea to order a few
flies from a reputable dealer/tyer. These can serve as "templates" for
your tying.


Chuck Vance

Recommendations for starter fly-tying.
 

Thanks again for all the post and suggestions.
Soon I will be attempting to tie flies.
I also enjoyed the website; Troutflies.com, their step by step
instructions and examples of the tied flies.
-tom