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Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this
Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows). I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly) flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment. I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas. I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a nice rod. Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
mdk77 wrote:
Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. snip What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I bought a 6wt Redington CPS for smallmouth fishing and I'm quite pleased with it. It fits exactly in your price range at $299 and for the money it's a very nice fly rod. ... Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? That depends on what you want to do most. If it's catching bluegill in the ponds go with a 3wt, bass get another 6wt or to fight the wind and toss deer hair a 7 or 8wt. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
SNIP
You caught a ton of fish, so why try to fix "something that ainīt broke"? Wait another year, and improve your knowledge and experience before you buy anything else. You can increase the performance of a #6 weight rod into the wind very considerably by using a shooting head on it. For info on shooting heads see here; http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...ads/index.html The right head will allow you to cast a lot further, and also to use larger flies if you wish. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Mike wrote:
SNIP You caught a ton of fish, so why try to fix "something that ainīt broke"? Wait another year, and improve your knowledge and experience before you buy anything else. You can increase the performance of a #6 weight rod into the wind very considerably by using a shooting head on it. For info on shooting heads see here; http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...ads/index.html The right head will allow you to cast a lot further, and also to use larger flies if you wish. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en Good point. I'm tempted to keep the 6wt that I have for Bass fishing when I do want to fish larger flies, and then pick up a 5wt, or even a 4wt for panfish and when I fish with smaller flies for Bass. Sometimes I do wish I had a more subtle way to present flies on the small, clear ponds, when it is perfectly calm and the fish seem spooked a bit by the 6wt. I've wondered if a 4 or 5wt would be better. Also, if I wanted a heavier line for Bass fishing big flies, is it a bad decision to load 7wt line on the 6wt that I already have? I'm just curious. |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 12, 8:50 pm, mdk77 wrote:
On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Mike wrote: SNIP You caught a ton of fish, so why try to fix "something that ainīt broke"? Wait another year, and improve your knowledge and experience before you buy anything else. You can increase the performance of a #6 weight rod into the wind very considerably by using a shooting head on it. For info on shooting heads see here; http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...ads/index.html The right head will allow you to cast a lot further, and also to use larger flies if you wish. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en Good point. I'm tempted to keep the 6wt that I have for Bass fishing when I do want to fish larger flies, and then pick up a 5wt, or even a 4wt for panfish and when I fish with smaller flies for Bass. Sometimes I do wish I had a more subtle way to present flies on the small, clear ponds, when it is perfectly calm and the fish seem spooked a bit by the 6wt. I've wondered if a 4 or 5wt would be better. Also, if I wanted a heavier line for Bass fishing big flies, is it a bad decision to load 7wt line on the 6wt that I already have? I'm just curious. Using a lighter rod and line can be more subtle. But there are alternatives to using a lighter rod and line.. There are disadvantages to using lighter rods and lines, the lighter they are, the less control you have in wind, and you will not be able to cast as far either. Usually, a #4 weight is about the lower limit for most things. One must suit the rod and line to the quarry, and in the case of small panfish, they are probably more fun on a light rod, as long as you can use it effectively. The lighter the line, the harder it is to cast. Subtlety is also very heavily dependent on your casting technique. It would pay you to try and improve that somewhat, before you invest in any more gear. One can make very subtle presentations with comparatively heavy gear, if it is set up right, The leader is very important here. It is not necessarily a "bad" decision" to overline a rod like that, but it depends on what you want to achieve. Overlining will slow the rod down, and you must adjust your casting to suit, also, when you have more than a certain amount of line out, you will be at the limits of the rodīs casting capability, and this is also not easy to do in any case with a full line. This also depends on what type of line you are using. If I were you, I would try a heavier head on the #6 weight for heavier fishing, and use a #5 line on the rod for your other fishing. This will teach you a lot, and give you a better idea of what you want. No amount of even good advice is a substitute for personal knowledge and experience. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
One quite simple way of achieving more subtle presentation, is to use
a longer leader, and aim about a foot or so above the water when casting, so that your line floats down gently, and does not cause any disturbance. This requires a little practice, but you can then present even very heavy lines with considerable subtlety, and more to the point, the flies. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Mike wrote:
SNIP ... You can increase the performance of a #6 weight rod into the wind very considerably by using a shooting head on it. For info on shooting heads see here; http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...ads/index.html The right head will allow you to cast a lot further, and also to use larger flies if you wish. It depends on what you mean by performance. If by performance you mean casting for distance I could see where a shooting head system might make sense. But a Central Illinois bass fisherman hardly ever has to cast for distance, accuracy and the ability to turn over big wind eating flies is far more important than distance. The venerable Cortland Peach 444 is a good all around fly line but the specialty lines are better for bass fishing. I use the Scientific Anglers Mastery Series Bass Bug fly line in 6wt and it is an excellent choice. I've also had an opportunity to cast the new Cortland Precision Big Fly - Bass and I like it even better, but it doesn't come in 6wt, just 7, 8, & 9. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Why donīt you read what an expert says before you disagree with
something "on principle". A correctly configured shooting head will carry and turn over bigger flies than any other "specialty" line in existence.It will also do a number of other things. It will still do them, even if you disagree. http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...ads/index.html There are plenty of others as well. I purposely did not give my take on the matter, but a "neutral" and quite comprehensive view from a well known expert. You may of course disagree with anything you like, you invariably do, but that disagreement seems to have more to do with the source of the information, than with the facts of the matter. If you mean this; http://www.waderson.com/us/store/127...-Fly--6wt.html itīs just a shooting head with integrated running line, a short front taper, and a long back taper, which will admittedly help turnover to some extent, but this depends largely on casting skill with a head anyway, Turn over usually being accomplished by applying more power, or using various tricks like "pull back" or feathering. I donīt like "exciting" or a lot of other nonsensical blurb in connection with my fishing tackle QUOTE are an exciting new line of species specific fly lines designed to turn over flies perfectly, accurately, every time. The Precision Tapers also feature Cortland's newest performance enhancer, DuraslikŪ. Duraslik is an entirely new formulation that dramatically increases durability and ensures that these lines will stay slick. Important new features of the Precision Tapers include (on some models) the availability of half weight line sizes, two tone for easy pickup identification and an exciting new taper design called the Rocket2. Never before has a fly line manufacturer made available fly lines designated by whole and half weights. Driven by the tremendous diversity of fly rod actions, fly anglers will now be able to more precisely match their fly line weight to their rod's action. A color change has also been included, indicating the maximum load point for easy pickup. Finally, Cortland, the innovator of the original Rocket taper, now introduces the Rocket2 taper design - more weight up front for directional stability, with a long front taper for delicate, precise presentations backed up by an extra long back taper for maximum aerialization. UNQUOTE What a load of old cobblers! :) I am sure the guy will make up his own mind, especially if he tries a few things. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Looks like they used the line equivalent blurb to this;
http://www.common-cents.info/rodexpertise.pdf -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Mike wrote:
Why donīt you read what an expert says before you disagree with something "on principle". When the subject is fly fishing for bass in central Illinois I am an expert. And I agree with me. ;-) snip If you mean this; http://www.waderson.com/us/store/127...-Fly--6wt.html itīs just a shooting head with integrated running line, a short front taper, and a long back taper, which will admittedly help turnover to some extent, but this depends largely on casting skill with a head anyway, Turn over usually being accomplished by applying more power, or using various tricks like "pull back" or feathering. That's the fly line I'm talking about. It's far better for casting in close to the canoe than any shooting head contraption and it's far more accurate at a distance regardless of "tricks". -- Ken Fortenberry |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
QUOTE WITH TRANSLATION
QUOTE are an exciting new line of species specific fly lines designed to another new and quite superfluous product which we have to sell somehow, and of course the fish donīt care turn over flies perfectly, accurately, every time. Bull****, only the caster can do that The Precision Tapers also feature Cortland's newest performance enhancer, DuraslikŪ. Duraslik is an entirely new formulation that dramatically increases durability and ensures that these lines will stay slick. Yeah yeah yeah, silicone oil in the plastic. Important new features of the Precision Tapers include (on some models) the availability of half weight line sizes, Great, I can match any shooting head to a hundredth of a line size if desired. A lot cheaper as well. two tone for easy pickup identification and an exciting new taper design called the Rocket2. Two tone? Like racing convertibles? How exciting! What do you do in the dark? Or donīt Bass bite at night? A taper by any other name................ Never before has a fly line manufacturer made available fly lines designated by whole and half weights. True enough, they have been screwing anglers with unmatched lines for years. Driven by the tremendous diversity of fly rod actions, Driven by a drop in sales as more anglers come to realise they are being screwed by the manufacturers. fly anglers will now be able to more precisely match their fly line weight to their rod's action. Bull****, by their own admission they wont come any nearer than half a line weight. A color change has also been included, indicating the maximum load point for easy pickup. As I said, what do you do in the dark? A shooting head is always correct, because the joint with the running lien tells you exactly where it is, even in the dark. #Finally, Cortland, the innovator of the original Rocket taper, now introduces the Rocket2 taper design - more weight up front for directional stability, Bull****, the weight does not affect the direction of a fly line, it goes where the rod tip drives it. with a long front taper for delicate, precise presentations backed up by an extra long back taper Oh marvelous, so you can put a size 2/0 Bass popper down like a dry fly? Very useful. Long back tapers merely allow the line to turn over a little more smoothly for maximum aerialization. For maximum aerialization? I doubt you can cast the thing with more than a couple of yards of overhang. For maximum aerialization, throw it out of an aeroplane. UNQUOTE The best is yet to come! 35 yards of mixed line, ( they donīt tell you how long the head is) but probably about 35 feet, attached to ~ 60 feet of cheap running line for 55 dollars! You just have to be pulling my chain!!! My "specialty" heads, will do a lot more than that line will, can be matched to ANY weight, and cost less than five dollars. Your turn....................... -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 12, 11:24 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Mike wrote: Why donīt you read what an expert says before you disagree with something "on principle". When the subject is fly fishing for bass in central Illinois I am an expert. And I agree with me. ;-) snip If you mean this; http://www.waderson.com/us/store/127...s--Big-Fly--6w... itīs just a shooting head with integrated running line, a short front taper, and a long back taper, which will admittedly help turnover to some extent, but this depends largely on casting skill with a head anyway, Turn over usually being accomplished by applying more power, or using various tricks like "pull back" or feathering. That's the fly line I'm talking about. It's far better for casting in close to the canoe than any shooting head contraption and it's far more accurate at a distance regardless of "tricks". -- Ken Fortenberry A fly line is a fly line, it aint "species specific". Now how would you know that? by your own admission, you have never used one. Apart from which, that is pure bull****, A matched head casts better at ANY distance, than any other line. Simply because it is perfectly matched to the rod. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
By the way, you know how I hate to rain on your
parade................. QUOTE I 've also had an opportunity to cast the new Cortland Precision Big Fly - Bass and I like it even better, but it doesn't come in 6wt, just 7, 8, & 9. UNQUOTE It comes in #6 #7# or #8, each just as exciting, useless, and expensive as the others. If you are going to use manufacturerīs blurb, then you might at least have the decency to get it right. So, back to more rewarding ventures, than a tackle discussion on ROFF, with somebody who knows absolutely nothing about it. īnight................... -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Mike wrote:
By the way, you know how I hate to rain on your parade................. QUOTE I 've also had an opportunity to cast the new Cortland Precision Big Fly - Bass and I like it even better, but it doesn't come in 6wt, just 7, 8, & 9. UNQUOTE It comes in #6 #7# or #8, each just as exciting, useless, and expensive as the others. No, it doesn't. That online retailer made an error when they set up their web page. If you are going to use manufacturerīs blurb, then you might at least have the decency to get it right. You'd be better off using the manufacturer's blurb than the first Google hit you see. You know, just to be decent and get it right. ;-) So, back to more rewarding ventures, than a tackle discussion on ROFF, with somebody who knows absolutely nothing about it. The one good thing about His Silly Mikeness is the way he disappears whenever he inevitably makes a complete, ignorant arse of himself. Buh Bye Mikey, see you in a few months. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:03:34 -0700, Mike wrote:
By the way, you know how I hate to rain on your parade................. QUOTE I 've also had an opportunity to cast the new Cortland Precision Big Fly - Bass and I like it even better, but it doesn't come in 6wt, just 7, 8, & 9. UNQUOTE It comes in #6 #7# or #8, each just as exciting, useless, and expensive as the others. If you are going to use manufacturerīs blurb, then you might at least have the decency to get it right. So, back to more rewarding ventures, than a tackle discussion on ROFF, with somebody who knows absolutely nothing about it. īnight................... -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor Got hair trigger much? /daytripper (sheesh. you do have *some* form of skin, yes?) |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 12:30 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Nice to see that some things never change, the same old Kenny, no facts to go on, so attack and insult the man who has. Only here because he canīt be run off a public newsgroup. Pitiful, and as ever a complete waste of time. However, at least I probably saved the original poster 55 dollars for a load of useless crap. No matter who or what he believes, he will at least now think about it. Indeed, I will put my money where my mouth is, if you send me your mailing address, ( my e-mail address is below), I will send you a shooting head for your rod for free, so you can try it. Also instructions on how to adjust it if necessary. I donīt sell anything at all, this is just an offer to help you, and annoy Kenny when you come back and tell us all how well it worked. So whatcha gonna do now Kenny boy? Send him a lump of over-hyped fifty-five dollar plastic? Or call me some more silly names? īnight -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/444slpt.html
Seems you might be right there for a change Kenny boy, but it does not change any other facts now does it? Nice try though. I am sure you will sleep better in the certain knowledge that you "put one over". I couldnīt find any "half weight lines" either, but I am sure that is a manufacturersīs error, or something? Whatever.................... -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 12:35 am, daytripper wrote:
Got hair trigger much? /daytripper (sheesh. you do have *some* form of skin, yes?) Depends largely on the weapon, and what I am shooting at. I wondered when Kennyīs supporting act would chime in. How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
mdk77 wrote:
Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows). I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly) flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment. I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas. I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a nice rod. Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? If you're in central Illinois, go to Jerry's in Highland and see what he's got. He has cut a deal for me more than once in the past. I might suggest fishing the tailout at Beaver or some of the places below the dam on Norfork Lake (North Fork of the White River) on your trip to Taneycomo. Try to learn the technique of dead drifting. Fish a weighted #14 tan or olive bead head scud about 24" below a strike indicator. That seems to work very well in those waters and below the dam at Table Rock (upstream of Taneycomo). There a spot about 1/4 mile below the dam at Table Rock where the river makes a bond to the left. Try fishing the outside of the bend dead drifting that scud set-up. There are a few trout parks along I-44 that might give you some trout opportunities. |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:53:42 -0700, Mike wrote:
On Aug 13, 12:35 am, daytripper wrote: Got hair trigger much? /daytripper (sheesh. you do have *some* form of skin, yes?) Depends largely on the weapon, and what I am shooting at. I wondered when Kennyīs supporting act would chime in. How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote:
SNIP How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") Looks like I guessed right then? You donīt know any facts either? You just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really, but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to boost their profits. Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line advice. Just as well I donīt need either. Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a little less money, you know where to find me.......... -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:37:02 -0700, Mike wrote:
On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote: SNIP How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") Looks like I guessed right then? You donīt know any facts either? You just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really, but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to boost their profits. Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line advice. Just as well I donīt need either. Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a little less money, you know where to find me.......... Um, no. And that's fine with me, thanks... /daytripper (but do go on - there's a speck of entertainment value in it) |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Mike wrote:
snip However, at least I probably saved the original poster 55 dollars for a load of useless crap. No matter who or what he believes, he will at least now think about it. Indeed, I will put my money where my mouth is, if you send me your mailing address, ( my e-mail address is below), I will send you a shooting head for your rod for free, so you can try it. Also instructions on how to adjust it if necessary. I donīt sell anything at all, this is just an offer to help you, and annoy Kenny when you come back and tell us all how well it worked. So whatcha gonna do now Kenny boy? Send him a lump of over-hyped fifty-five dollar plastic? Or call me some more silly names? I take it you're offering to send the original poster some sort of shooting head contraption assuming that I will not offer to send him a Cortland 444 Bass taper. As if that would prove anything. I'll make you a deal. Put together a shooting head contraption for a 6wt fly rod that will accurately toss big deer hair bugs between 20 and 50 feet *AND* post here all the ingredients necessary to construct this contraption *AND* an online source for all these ingredients *including* the price of each. If the price of this contraption is less than the price of the Cortland send it to me: Ken Fortenberry 804 W. Indiana Ave. Urbana, IL 61801 USA I'll give it a fair test and post the results to roff. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:49:06 -0000, mdk77
wrote: Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows). I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly) flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment. I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas. I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a nice rod. Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? What's the chance you'll fish other waters? If "none," then get something beside more gear...as Wayne K. has heart failure..., if the answer is "pretty good" - such as down to the Keys for a fishcation, or maybe to some small water/picturesque digs, get a "kitchen pass"... What do I mean? Well, getting a "better" rod probably won't (objectively) help much on the same water - you just can't fix what ain't broke, but what you've got won't be the right size or weight for small, little water or bone, tarpon, etc. IOW, new gear for you and a vacation for you both. That said, if you aren't going to different water and if you are of such a bent, a good, fishable 'boo (no, not new), a silk line (new), and good old reel, maybe a Hardy or solid old Medallist, would provide a whole 'nuther perspective...as always, YMMV... TC, R |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:36:25 -0400, daytripper
wrote: On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:37:02 -0700, Mike wrote: On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote: SNIP How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") Looks like I guessed right then? You donīt know any facts either? You just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really, but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to boost their profits. Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line advice. Just as well I donīt need either. Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a little less money, you know where to find me.......... Um, no. And that's fine with me, thanks... /daytripper (but do go on - there's a speck of entertainment value in it) Well, no one asked my opinion, but if they did, I say I was just so impressed that no one was really, um, digging in... Golly, oh so how I hope this helps, R ....no, really, I typed that with a straight...well, at least not a nappy-headed Nazi homo....face... |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 4:48 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Mike wrote: I take it you're offering to send the original poster some sort of shooting head contraption assuming that I will not offer to send him a Cortland 444 Bass taper. As if that would prove anything. I'll make you a deal. Put together a shooting head contraption for a 6wt fly rod that will accurately toss big deer hair bugs between 20 and 50 feet *AND* post here all the ingredients necessary to construct this contraption *AND* an online source for all these ingredients *including* the price of each. If the price of this contraption is less than the price of the Cortland send it to me: Ken Fortenberry 804 W. Indiana Ave. Urbana, IL 61801 USA I'll give it a fair test and post the results to roff. -- Ken Fortenberry Wow! What a great deal, I am truly honoured. I will send the original poster a head if he wants one. I donīt care what you do. I told you, a matched head on one of my #6 weight rods will cast even very large pike flies a good distance, I have not measured it, but fifty feet should not be a problem with a bass bug, and the head costs less than five dollars. ( Quite a bit less actually). I also gave you a URL containing the instructions for making up a matched head. Those were independent instructions. From a recognised and reliable source. It is easy enough to do. It is actually pretty hard to bungle it, if you follow the pretty simple instructions.There are lots of people using my lines, and also heads they have made up according to my and otherīs instructions, and they already know it works, so I donīt really need to take advantage of your extremely kind ???offer??? Nor do I require your blessing, sponsorship, or affidavit as to the effectiveness or potential uses of of shooting heads??? I have been using them for nearly forty years. It seems you are offering to pay for a head? I also told you, I donīt sell anything at all. Make your own head, then you might learn something about fly lines. Indeed, just reading the URL I gave you would be a good idea. Even the cheapest double taper fly line you can find in the appropriate weight will make you two excellent shooting heads.I use lines that cost about 6 dollars ( American) so my heads cost about three dollars each. If you want a "rocket" or "bass bug" taper. You merely connect the thick end of the line to your leader. This will turn over even the heaviest of flies, ( given the correct leader) and the taper on the thin end of the DT will also give you an excellent back taper ensuring good turnover. The Cortland line you are talking about, is only a shooting head attached to integrated running line. It has several disadvantages by virtue of its construction. You can not adjust the weight of the head to suit your rod, without cutting the line. This would compromise the taper, and also leave you with a "genuine" shooting head with a damaged taper! , which you would have to attach to appropriate backing. Despite colour coding and what have you, it is still difficult to gauge the head end, which you need to do to load the rod properly, ( which is why they colour code it, in an attempt to allow this). There are various other problems, not the least of which is the wear on the part of the line you haul. This is immaterial on a shooting head, because you just cut it off and replace it now and again with cheap backing. You are paying a premium price for 42 feet of fly line, and 48 feet of running line, ( see Cortlandīs tech specs)which will not perform as well as a "real" shooting head with the appropriate backing. I prefer to pay three dollars, and get something which works better. It does not matter at all to me whether you believe that or not. Why should it? My only interest here was in showing the original poster how to improve his gear for very little money. It seems you have money to burn anyway, and you are convinced that the line you advised is perfectly excellent. That being the case, simply buy one, it makes no difference to me, itīs not my money. By the way, would you like a really top notch fly-line that requires no care whatsoever, floats perfectly, and is virtually indestructible? For ten cents? I can send you one of those to try if you like, perfect for dry fly fishing, upstream wet fly, and indeed for a host of other things. I will personally give you a lifetime replacement guarantee for it as well. Donīt believe it? Doesnīt matter, it is still true. I sent out over twenty seven such lines in the past few months, and everybody who got one is delighted with it. Somewhat disbelieving at first of course, but now delighted. I donīt need your approval for anything at all, I would merely appreciate you showing some common sense and civility. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 12, 8:49 am, mdk77 wrote:
Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows). I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly) flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment. I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas. I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a nice rod. Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? As Mike said: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You sound as if you have had much success this past year (better than some of us terribly elite veterans), so put a hold on inventory expansion and get a boat better to enjoy those ponds you have been wading. Few things in life are more relaxing than bluegills on a fly rod from a jon boat on a farm pond on a summer's evening. cheers oz |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 5:21 am, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:36:25 -0400, daytripper wrote: On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:37:02 -0700, Mike wrote: On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote: SNIP How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") Looks like I guessed right then? You donīt know any facts either? You just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really, but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to boost their profits. Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line advice. Just as well I donīt need either. Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a little less money, you know where to find me.......... Um, no. And that's fine with me, thanks... /daytripper (but do go on - there's a speck of entertainment value in it) Well, no one asked my opinion, but if they did, I say I was just so impressed that no one was really, um, digging in... Golly, oh so how I hope this helps, R ...no, really, I typed that with a straight...well, at least not a nappy-headed Nazi homo....face... Nobody asks your opinion on anything at all, as long and weary experience has taught them that your opinion on just about anything is more or less worthless, apart it seems from some extremely minimal "entertainment value", which some are apparently only here for, and because you are also a puerile miscreant of the worst possible ilk. MC |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 4:48 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Mike wrote: snip However, at least I probably saved the original poster 55 dollars for a load of useless crap. No matter who or what he believes, he will at least now think about it. Indeed, I will put my money where my mouth is, if you send me your mailing address, ( my e-mail address is below), I will send you a shooting head for your rod for free, so you can try it. Also instructions on how to adjust it if necessary. I donīt sell anything at all, this is just an offer to help you, and annoy Kenny when you come back and tell us all how well it worked. So whatcha gonna do now Kenny boy? Send him a lump of over-hyped fifty-five dollar plastic? Or call me some more silly names? I take it you're offering to send the original poster some sort of shooting head contraption assuming that I will not offer to send him a Cortland 444 Bass taper. As if that would prove anything. I'll make you a deal. Put together a shooting head contraption for a 6wt fly rod that will accurately toss big deer hair bugs between 20 and 50 feet *AND* post here all the ingredients necessary to construct this contraption *AND* an online source for all these ingredients *including* the price of each. If the price of this contraption is less than the price of the Cortland send it to me: Ken Fortenberry 804 W. Indiana Ave. Urbana, IL 61801 USA I'll give it a fair test and post the results to roff. -- Ken Fortenberry Should you actually prefer to use my instructions for making up a head, ( although the result should be the same no matter whose instructions you use), you can find them here; http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...ting_head.html Although this article specifically addresses salt water fishing, the principle is the same. Last but not least, the Cortland line under discussion has a 42 foot head. This is not usually a good length for casting heavy flies. If you want to cast bass bugs and similar at any range, including short ranges, then you would be better served with a shorter head from 30 to 35 feet. This is much easier to aerialise and control, and it will carry much heavier flies more easily. This means of course, that you can cast this line perfectly normally using any technique you like, including roll casting etc, at any range up to 35 feet, while using heavy flies, but if you want to cast to say 50 feet, you need to shoot fifteen feet of backing line as well as the head. This is usually quite easy, indeed much greater distances are possible, even with heavy flies, because the line mass is concentrated in a relatively short length of line, and the mass is matched to the rod. Increasing the head length can give somewhat better presentation, but will not cast quite so heavy flies easily, or into a wind, and you need to be a better caster to aerialise long heads, and when using heavy bass or pike flies, the slightly ( theoretical) better presentation brings no advantages. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Mike wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote: snip I'll make you a deal. Put together a shooting head contraption for a 6wt fly rod that will accurately toss big deer hair bugs between 20 and 50 feet *AND* post here all the ingredients necessary to construct this contraption *AND* an online source for all these ingredients *including* the price of each. If the price of this contraption is less than the price of the Cortland ... Wow! What a great deal, I am truly honoured. I will send the original poster a head if he wants one. I donīt care what you do. I told you, a matched head on one of my #6 weight rods will cast even very large pike flies a good distance, I have not measured it, but fifty feet should not be a problem with a bass bug, and the head costs less than five dollars. ( Quite a bit less actually). I also gave you a URL containing the instructions for making up a matched head. Those were independent instructions. From a recognised and reliable source. It is easy enough to do. It is actually pretty hard to bungle it, if you follow the pretty simple instructions. ... If you're going to recommend these things to newbies you should include a source for materials. I mean a newbie isn't going to have old scraps of DT line laying around or know where to find cheap running line. My recommendation to a newbie is buy a good fly line, go fish with it and don't worry about trying to roll your own fly line. And I did read part of the article you referenced. The author echoes my own experience with shooting heads in this excerpt: "The use of a shooting head is not only a blessing. There are disadvantages too. Among these you will find: - lack of precision. The strength lies in power and distance, not delicacy. - poor short line abilities. There is a minimum length of line, which has to be out of the top eye before you can cast well. - poor turnover of leader and fly. The heads are often constructed with short front and back tapers and rely on power to turn over properly. - poor roll casting abilities for the same reasons as above. - noisy landing. The line will often splash on the landing especially with sinking lines. It's important to notice that shooting heads are very different. Some are half double taper lines with almost no taper, while others are carefully constructed with roll, spey and underhand casts in mind, and often as good or better with these casts than a simple WF line." Which is pretty much what I posted earlier. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
mdk77 wrote in news:1186926546.175890.99770
@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com: Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows). I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly) flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment. I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas. I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a nice rod. Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? Sounds like you got yourself a bang-up rig for bass already. If you really want to get yourself a new outfit, I'd suggest something that would expand, rather than duplicate, your capabilities. If you want to start looking for trout on small streams, or want to have a bit more fun with panfish, consider something in a 3wt. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:57:52 -0700, Mike
wrote: On Aug 13, 5:21 am, wrote: On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:36:25 -0400, daytripper wrote: On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:37:02 -0700, Mike wrote: On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote: SNIP How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") Looks like I guessed right then? You donīt know any facts either? You just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really, but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to boost their profits. Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line advice. Just as well I donīt need either. Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a little less money, you know where to find me.......... Um, no. And that's fine with me, thanks... /daytripper (but do go on - there's a speck of entertainment value in it) Well, no one asked my opinion, but if they did, I say I was just so impressed that no one was really, um, digging in... Golly, oh so how I hope this helps, R ...no, really, I typed that with a straight...well, at least not a nappy-headed Nazi homo....face... Nobody asks your opinion on anything at all, Actually, you're wrong yet again, oh Nazi homo ho of the nappy-headedness...on ROFF, folks often - heck, almost by definition - ask for _everyone's_ opinion...and the neat thing is, whether they want 'em all or not, they are likely to get 'em... as long and weary experience has taught them that your opinion on just about anything is more or less worthless, apart it seems from some extremely minimal "entertainment value", which some are apparently only here for, and because you are also a puerile miscreant of the worst possible ilk. And wrong AGAIN - when I'm a puerile miscreant, it's of the BEST possible ilk... Ilkily, R |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 12, 10:51 pm, MajorOz wrote:
On Aug 12, 8:49 am, mdk77 wrote: Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows). I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly) flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment. I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas. I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a nice rod. Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? As Mike said: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You sound as if you have had much success this past year (better than some of us terribly elite veterans), so put a hold on inventory expansion and get a boat better to enjoy those ponds you have been wading. Few things in life are more relaxing than bluegills on a fly rod from a jon boat on a farm pond on a summer's evening. cheers oz Thanks to everyone for the advice. Oz, my plan is to buy a canoe by next year to fish these ponds. You "read my mind" on the idea of floating a pond on a summer's evening and catching the 'gills. Again, thanks to everyone for giving me a lot of great ideas. Even if folks don't agree on things, I sure do appreciate the different ideas presented here. It gives me a lot to consider. - Dave |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 1:03 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: .. ... If you're going to recommend these things to newbies you should include a source for materials. I mean a newbie isn't going to have old scraps of DT line laying around or know where to find cheap running line. DT lines may be obtained anywhere, and the backing most used is cheap nylon braid, also available anywhere My recommendation to a newbie is buy a good fly line, go fish with it and don't worry about trying to roll your own fly line. That is fair enough, but in this specific case, the guy has been fishing for a season, and wishes to extend his capabilities without spending too much money. many people go out and buy new rods, but this does not help, and is not the best way to go. And I did read part of the article you referenced. The author echoes my own experience with shooting heads in this excerpt: "The use of a shooting head is not only a blessing. There are disadvantages too. Among these you will find: - lack of precision. The strength lies in power and distance, not delicacy. That is highly subjective, depends on how one makes the head up, what one uses the head for, and the casterīs ability. They are just as precise as any WF line. - poor short line abilities. There is a minimum length of line, which has to be out of the top eye before you can cast well. That is actually incorrect. because a head is weight matched to the rod, it has better short line abilities than any other line. The rod loads sooner. - poor turnover of leader and fly. The heads are often constructed with short front and back tapers and rely on power to turn over properly. True - poor roll casting abilities for the same reasons as above. Also only applies if one fishes beyond the length of the head, but is basically true. - noisy landing. The line will often splash on the landing - especially with sinking lines. True enough, so will any other line.presentation depends mainly on the caster. Although distance heads are not delicate presentation tools. Neither are WF lines. It's important to notice that shooting heads are very different. Some are half double taper lines with almost no taper, while others are carefully constructed with roll, spey and underhand casts in mind, and often as good or better with these casts than a simple WF line." A WF line IS a shooting head, with integrated running line. Various tapers may improve some performance aspects, but for the most part may be ignored. Which is pretty much what I posted earlier. -- Ken Fortenberry I have no problems at all accepting your disagreement on a sensible and logical basis. Indeed, I would also accept it if you simply said "I just donīt like them". Entirely your prerogative. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Mike, if you are correct, then why do 99.9% of fly fishermen use a
plain, ordinary, commercial fly line? Could the answer be "because it works for them?" This shooting head stuff is fine, if you are experienced and want what the SH will give you. But in most experiences, it simply is not needed. Most of my work is done within 30 feet of me because *that's where the fish are*. I surely do not need a shooting head to get 30 feet of line out. While fishing in Labrador last year, the brook trout (big ones!) were feeding on the surface about 60 feet from us. If you got closer with the boat, they would stop, so you had to stay quite a distance. *No one* had trouble pumping out 60 feet of commercial fly line using a #12 Royal Wulff as a lure. And, we caught a fish on almost every single cast. What the newbie needs is casting practice, not shooting heads. What he needs is what *most* fly fishermen use, a commercial WF fly line, and if he wants to safe a little money, a double taper (so he can save money by turning it around when needed). He does not need a shooting head. In fact, most of us also do not need it most of the time. And if I *need* to cast 90 feet, I go with a spey rod instead of a shooting head. Just my humble observations while fishing 456 days in my Simms G3s. Dave |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Mike wrote:
snip I have no problems at all accepting your disagreement on a sensible and logical basis. LOL !! Mike you have serious problems accepting any sort of disagreement at all. Your know-it-all pronouncements are the stuff of roff legend. Indeed, I would also accept it if you simply said "I just donīt like them". Entirely your prerogative. Like I said, shooting heads have their place but fishing for bass in central Illinois ain't one of them. And I strongly disagree with recommending to newbies that they cobble together cheap fly lines. In fact I always counsel newbies never to cheap out on the fly line. Go bargain hunting for fly rod, fly reel and flies if you must but never cheap out on the fly line because a cheap fly line can make fly fishing a miserable and trying experience. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 12, 10:20 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: mdk77 wrote: Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. snip What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I bought a 6wt Redington CPS for smallmouth fishing and I'm quite pleased with it. It fits exactly in your price range at $299 and for the money it's a very nice fly rod. ... Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? That depends on what you want to do most. If it's catching bluegill in the ponds go with a 3wt, bass get another 6wt or to fight the wind and toss deer hair a 7 or 8wt. -- Ken Fortenberry Ken, it sounds like you are from Central Illinois too. I'm curious, do you fish around here for Bass, and if you do, then what size do you fish with the most? Thanks. - Dave |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 12:15 pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Mike, if you are correct, then why do 99.9% of fly fishermen use a plain, ordinary, commercial fly line? Could the answer be "because it works for them?" This shooting head stuff is fine, if you are experienced and want what the SH will give you. But in most experiences, it simply is not needed. Most of my work is done within 30 feet of me because *that's where the fish are*. I surely do not need a shooting head to get 30 feet of line out. While fishing in Labrador last year, the brook trout (big ones!) were feeding on the surface about 60 feet from us. If you got closer with the boat, they would stop, so you had to stay quite a distance. *No one* had trouble pumping out 60 feet of commercial fly line using a #12 Royal Wulff as a lure. And, we caught a fish on almost every single cast. What the newbie needs is casting practice, not shooting heads. What he needs is what *most* fly fishermen use, a commercial WF fly line, and if he wants to safe a little money, a double taper (so he can save money by turning it around when needed). He does not need a shooting head. In fact, most of us also do not need it most of the time. And if I *need* to cast 90 feet, I go with a spey rod instead of a shooting head. Just my humble observations while fishing 456 days in my Simms G3s. Dave Fourty + years ago I made "Shooting heads" by wacking off 10 yard or so off a size GAG line ( you got two out of each double tapered line). I wound form a loop in the "A" end and use some braded line for shooting ( Sunset cuttyhunk I believe it was called). I could cat it 100' maby more. It wasn't really fly casting just casting. Some people did use spinning reels. Coiling and holding the line was the tricky part. If I wanted to fish the Eel or Klamth rivers now I would use a 9W shooting taper. It works just as good and I would save my time for BSing and drinking beer. I use to have more time than money. I probably still do but i don't have as much of it left so I am going to use it for better things than fooling wih fly lines. I don't remeber people having shooting lines back then. If they did they wern't in my price range. The first on I bought was a "bass taper". So my advise to mdk is use what they sell. Borrow, rent or otherwise try lots of equipment, find what you like.. Spend you money wisely. |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
mdk77 wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote: mdk77 wrote: snip What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I bought a 6wt Redington CPS for smallmouth fishing and I'm quite pleased with it. It fits exactly in your price range at $299 and for the money it's a very nice fly rod. ... Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? That depends on what you want to do most. If it's catching bluegill in the ponds go with a 3wt, bass get another 6wt or to fight the wind and toss deer hair a 7 or 8wt. Ken, it sounds like you are from Central Illinois too. I'm curious, do you fish around here for Bass, and if you do, then what size do you fish with the most? Thanks. I live in Urbana and most of my local bass fishing is smallmouth fishing in the streams of Vermillion county. I'll put my canoe in the ponds at Kickapoo State Park and a few other small lakes fishing for largemouths but I avoid Clinton and Shelbyville, too many metal flake bass boats. My bass rod is a Sage RPL 690-4, that's 9' 6wt 4 piece that's long since been discontinued by Sage. As I said, I recently bought a backup rod for bass fishing and I'm really pleased with the 9' 4 piece 6wt Redington CPS, it's almost as nice as my Sage and at $299 a good value. Most folks targeting largemouths in the bigger lakes that I avoid would use 7 or 8wt rods but the 6wt works fine for me targeting smallies and fishing ponds from the canoe. Mostly around home, I'm a bluegill fisherman using a 9' Winston 3wt, that's the most fun for me. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 9:15 pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Mike, if you are correct, then why do 99.9% of fly fishermen use a Do you know why 5% of the anglers catch ninety five per cent of the fish? If I am incorrect, then just ignore me. Very much of my fishing is also done at ranges below thirty feet, and I use heads almost exclusively. Your problem appears to be that you don īt know what a head is, or what it may be used for. I have explained it often enough, but you either donīt read what I write, or donīt care, so there is little point in my repeating it yet again. No big deal. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
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