Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

I find this extremely depressing on many levels.

I was out of town for a couple of days in the middle of last week. I
got home and knew that they were supposed to complete the fall
stocking for Elk Creek in Cecil County Maryland. They did. On Friday
afternoon they completed it. They put a lot of nice fish in the
creek. Me, and two other fly fisherman must have a caught a dozen
fish. Most of them were in the 12 to 15 inch range. That was
amazing! Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours
of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers! Of the
12 or so fish we caught, one guy kept one.

I fished again on Sunday for a while and the vast majority of the fish
were gone! One guy had 5 real nice ones on a stringer laying in
shallow water.

Now I know put-and-take has it's place in fisheries management but
these fish could have been there all winter. The water temps are
right. The food might be a little scarce for that many fish but we
could have had fun catching them for the next 5 months!

I'm not a fan of PETA but I also see no point in pushing fish to a
slow death of suffocation.

Maybe I'm misguided but that mentality seems so selfish, so short
sighted? I know this is the reality but….? Maybe all streams should
have delayed harvest for a couple of weeks after stocking. That would
allow the people who want to CATCH fish a chance to do so before the
meat men arrive and yank them all out of the water for good.
Any comments?

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Gene C wrote in message . ..
I find this extremely depressing on many levels.


timbo must have lost his isp.

wayno

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Gene C wrote:

... Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours
of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers! ...

What's amazing about that ? A wooly bugger is a spot on imitation
of a trout chow pellet. You may as well be using power bait.

Maybe I'm misguided ...

Do you think ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

From: Ken Fortenberry

What's amazing about that ? A wooly bugger is a spot on imitation
of a trout chow pellet. You may as well be using power bait.

Huh? I've never yet seen a Wooly Bugger that looks even remotely like Trout
Chow. In my experience freshly stocked trout will attack anything with a lot of
action and/or flash. He would likely have done as well with any streamer.

You may be confusing a Wooly Bugger with a Glo-Bug, which is an egg imitation.
In the smaller sizes, trout could take one to be a pellet. You gotta lay off
the dries a bit and do a little dredging with the rest of us, so you can get
your pattern identification straight. G


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Ken Fortenberry wrote in
.com:


What's amazing about that ? A wooly bugger is a spot on imitation
of a trout chow pellet. You may as well be using power bait.


No, a bomber with no hackle, now that's a spot on imitation of the chow
pellet!!

At least it's a dry fly ;)

Scott

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

George Adams wrote:
From: Ken Fortenberry

A wooly bugger is a spot on imitation
of a trout chow pellet.

Huh? I've never yet seen a Wooly Bugger that looks even remotely like Trout
Chow.

Huh yourself, a little brown wooly bugger looks EXACTLY like the trout chow
pellets I watched them feed to the stockers at the hatchery near the Montauk
trout park in Missouri. And in the interests of protecting the guilty I
won't divulge how I know this, but a little brown wooly bugger must be a
near 'nuff match to the trout chow used in North Carolina too.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: Ken Fortenberry

What's amazing about that ? A wooly bugger is a spot on imitation
of a trout chow pellet. You may as well be using power bait.

Huh? I've never yet seen a Wooly Bugger that looks even remotely like
Trout
Chow. In my experience freshly stocked trout will attack anything with a
lot of
action and/or flash. He would likely have done as well with any streamer.


So that begs the question why would anyone go fishing after freshly stocked
trout unless they wanted to stroke their ego or to stock a freezer.

Paul

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
George Adams wrote:
From: Ken Fortenberry

A wooly bugger is a spot on imitation
of a trout chow pellet.

Huh? I've never yet seen a Wooly Bugger that looks even remotely like Trout
Chow.

Huh yourself, a little brown wooly bugger looks EXACTLY like the trout chow
pellets

I wonder what it would cost to have them make the trout pellets look like a
Royal Wulff or an Adams. It sure would help me out.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Paul Goodwin" wrote in message
...

"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: Ken Fortenberry

What's amazing about that ? A wooly bugger is a spot on imitation
of a trout chow pellet. You may as well be using power bait.

Huh? I've never yet seen a Wooly Bugger that looks even remotely
like
Trout
Chow. In my experience freshly stocked trout will attack anything
with a
lot of
action and/or flash. He would likely have done as well with any
streamer.


So that begs the question why would anyone go fishing after freshly
stocked
trout unless they wanted to stroke their ego or to stock a freezer.

Paul

Well, it beats sitting at home watching football, soccer, baseball,
hockey, golf, auto racing, or horse racing.

Wolfgang
women's volleyball, on the other hand..........

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Paul Goodwin wrote:

So that begs the question why would anyone go fishing after freshly stocked
trout unless they wanted to stroke their ego or to stock a freezer.

The original poster said he wanted to play with his food ...
for 5 months !

--
Ken Fortenberry

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

From: Ken Fortenberry

Huh yourself, a little brown wooly bugger looks EXACTLY like the trout chow
pellets I watched them feed to the stockers at the hatchery near the Montauk
trout park in Missouri.

Well, the pellets they feed them around here are about 1/4" dia by 5/16" long
and are greyish tan in color. Also, they float...not exactly well imitated by a
bugger.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

From: "Paul Goodwin"


So that begs the question why would anyone go fishing after freshly stocked
trout unless they wanted to stroke their ego or to stock a freezer.

Well, it ain't much of an ego stroker, so it must be to stock the freezer. Kind
of hard to avoid that situation on C&R water, though. I usually fish areas
where they don't normally stock, if I know a stream has been freshly planted.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

It does not really matter, in my mind, as long as people eat them and have
fun doing it. It is now different than buying fish from the grocery store
except that you get to enjoy being outside rather than standing in line at
the store.

--
James Ehlers

Outdoors Magazine
www.outdoorsmagazine.net



"Gene C" wrote in message
om...
I find this extremely depressing on many levels.

I was out of town for a couple of days in the middle of last week. I
got home and knew that they were supposed to complete the fall
stocking for Elk Creek in Cecil County Maryland. They did. On Friday
afternoon they completed it. They put a lot of nice fish in the
creek. Me, and two other fly fisherman must have a caught a dozen
fish. Most of them were in the 12 to 15 inch range. That was
amazing! Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours
of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers! Of the
12 or so fish we caught, one guy kept one.

I fished again on Sunday for a while and the vast majority of the fish
were gone! One guy had 5 real nice ones on a stringer laying in
shallow water.

Now I know put-and-take has it's place in fisheries management but
these fish could have been there all winter. The water temps are
right. The food might be a little scarce for that many fish but we
could have had fun catching them for the next 5 months!

I'm not a fan of PETA but I also see no point in pushing fish to a
slow death of suffocation.

Maybe I'm misguided but that mentality seems so selfish, so short
sighted? I know this is the reality but..? Maybe all streams should
have delayed harvest for a couple of weeks after stocking. That would
allow the people who want to CATCH fish a chance to do so before the
meat men arrive and yank them all out of the water for good.
Any comments?

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Paul Goodwin" wrote in message
...


In my experience freshly stocked trout will attack anything with a
lot of
action and/or flash.

which brings to mind an experience that has always puzzled me. couple
years ago i was fishing the hatchery supported section of snowbird with my
youngest son, and as we geared up beside a beautiful run under a bridge that
ran about 10 feet above the creek, up drives the stocking truck, and the
guys start literally dumping trout from nets into the water. the fish made
belly flop sounds as they cascaded into the waist deep run. off goes the
truck, and ol' anthony says, sheepishly, "i don't suppose it would be right
to try to catch them, would it, dad?" to which i responded, "hell, son, the
only reason they are in the water is to be caught!", and told him to have at
it. i watched him as he manufactured one excellent float after another
right over the noses of several of the fish, who were lined up, facing
upstream, just sort of treading water. nothing doing. i finally applied my
(ahem!) deft, artful touch to the t&t, time after time, to no avail. long
story short: we tried six or eight combinations of dry flies, nymphs, and
boogers, and never moved a single fish.

explanations?

yfitons
wayno

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
What's amazing about that ? A wooly bugger is a spot on imitation
of a trout chow pellet.

Never would have made that association. When I stayed at a resort in NY
state (Mohonk), they had a coin-operated machine tourists could use to buy
little pellets to feed the trout in the lake adjacent to the pavilion. Big
trout. Huge trout. Well-fed trout. In successfully resisting the
temptation, however, I decided the closest imitation in my box would have
been a size 12 GRHE. Right size, right color.

Joe F.

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
m...


explanations?

Trauma.

Wolfgang
mumble mumble unspeakable in pursuit of the indelible, mumble mumble.

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Wayne Harrison" wrote...

couple
years ago i was fishing the hatchery supported section of snowbird with my
youngest son, and as we geared up beside a beautiful run under a bridge that
ran about 10 feet above the creek, up drives the stocking truck, and the
guys start literally dumping trout from nets into the water. the fish made
belly flop sounds as they cascaded into the waist deep run. off goes the
truck, and ol' anthony says, sheepishly, "i don't suppose it would be right
to try to catch them, would it, dad?" to which i responded, "hell, son, the
only reason they are in the water is to be caught!", and told him to have at
it. i watched him as he manufactured one excellent float after another
right over the noses of several of the fish, who were lined up, facing
upstream, just sort of treading water. nothing doing. i finally applied my
(ahem!) deft, artful touch to the t&t, time after time, to no avail. long
story short: we tried six or eight combinations of dry flies, nymphs, and
boogers, and never moved a single fish.

Let's drop YOU from a truck in a belly flop and see if YOU'RE hungry! :)

When they're first stocked / dropped like that, they're usually just in a shock
mode. If you had been there the next day, chances are it would have been a
different story.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Yes,
1. Stocked trout don't belong in any water where natural reproduction is
possible.
2. Only Catch and Release should be allowed in these waters.
I came across a bunch of hatchery trout in a lake that people were trying
to catch. I told them to throw a hand full of small gravel at them. They
did, which sent the fish into a feeding frenzy and they started catching
them. I walked away in disgust and wondered if any of the people knew what
it was like to catch a real trout with a full set of fins.
Ernie

"Gene C" wrote
Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours
of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers!
Any comments?

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Why be disgusted at something that gives people pleasure? Happy people are
nicer to be around :) Relatively harmless activity in most states where
put and take stocking occurs where natives would not exist anyway.

--
James Ehlers

Outdoors Magazine



www.outdoorsmagazine.net
"Ernie" wrote in message
. ..
Yes,
1. Stocked trout don't belong in any water where natural reproduction is
possible.
2. Only Catch and Release should be allowed in these waters.
I came across a bunch of hatchery trout in a lake that people were
trying
to catch. I told them to throw a hand full of small gravel at them. They
did, which sent the fish into a feeding frenzy and they started catching
them. I walked away in disgust and wondered if any of the people knew
what
it was like to catch a real trout with a full set of fins.
Ernie

"Gene C" wrote
Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours
of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers!
Any comments?

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"James Ehlers" wrote in message
. net...
Why be disgusted at something that gives people pleasure?

Ever heard of coprophagy?

Wolfgang
next time you see somebody out on the crick with a **** eatin'
grin......... :)

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

I knew I would be opening myself up to something like that :)

Hey, whatever floats your septic :)

--
James Ehlers

Outdoors Magazine
www.outdoorsmagazine.net
"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"James Ehlers" wrote in message
. net...
Why be disgusted at something that gives people pleasure?

Ever heard of coprophagy?

Wolfgang
next time you see somebody out on the crick with a **** eatin'
grin......... :)

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"rw" wrote...
Wayne Harrison wrote:

explanations?

Wrong fly? :-)

Seriously, consider what they'd been through. Suppose you'd been rousted
out of the only home you'd ever known, trucked in the dark to some
unknown place, and dumped in sudden daylight into strange smelling
water. Would eating be the first thing on your mind?

Ask Frank Reid. I think this exact same thing happened to him at Penns 2002.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"rw" wrote in message
. ..
Wayne Harrison wrote:

explanations?

Wrong fly? :-)

Seriously, consider what they'd been through. Suppose you'd been rousted
out of the only home you'd ever known, trucked in the dark to some
unknown place, and dumped in sudden daylight into strange smelling
water. Would eating be the first thing on your mind?

well, no, steve, it wouldn't. having a damn stout see-through would be.
but thanks for asking.

wayno

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

James,
I have no objection to stocking where natural reproduction can't take
place. Stocking places where natural reproduction is possible is
detrimental to natural trout.
Ernie

"James Ehlers" wrote in message
. net...
Why be disgusted at something that gives people pleasure? Happy people
are
nicer to be around :) Relatively harmless activity in most states where
put and take stocking occurs where natives would not exist anyway.

--
James Ehlers

Outdoors Magazine



www.outdoorsmagazine.net
"Ernie" wrote in message
. ..
Yes,
1. Stocked trout don't belong in any water where natural reproduction is
possible.
2. Only Catch and Release should be allowed in these waters.
I came across a bunch of hatchery trout in a lake that people were
trying
to catch. I told them to throw a hand full of small gravel at them.
They
did, which sent the fish into a feeding frenzy and they started catching
them. I walked away in disgust and wondered if any of the people knew
what
it was like to catch a real trout with a full set of fins.
Ernie

"Gene C" wrote
Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours
of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers!
Any comments?

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"rw" wrote in message
. ..
Wayne Harrison wrote:

explanations?

Wrong fly? :-)

Seriously, consider what they'd been through. Suppose you'd been rousted
out of the only home you'd ever known, trucked in the dark to some
unknown place, and dumped in sudden daylight into strange smelling
water. Would eating be the first thing on your mind?


My first though would be: "How can I get laid", but then I'm a man, not a
fish.

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Wolfie,
Don't tell me some one actually eats hatchery trout!
Ernie

Wolfgang" wrote
Ever heard of coprophagy?
Wolfgang
next time you see somebody out on the crick with a **** eatin'
grin......... :)

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Stan Gula" wrote...
"rw" wrote...
Wayne Harrison wrote:

explanations?

Wrong fly? :-)

Seriously, consider what they'd been through. Suppose you'd been rousted
out of the only home you'd ever known, trucked in the dark to some
unknown place, and dumped in sudden daylight into strange smelling
water. Would eating be the first thing on your mind?


My first though would be: "How can I get laid", but then I'm a man, not a
fish.

SPLORK! Ooooo, that one hurt.

--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:

explanations?

Wrong fly? :-)

Seriously, consider what they'd been through. Suppose you'd been rousted
out of the only home you'd ever known, trucked in the dark to some
unknown place, and dumped in sudden daylight into strange smelling
water. Would eating be the first thing on your mind?

I'll bet if you'd come back the next day you'd have caught them one
after another.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Tim J. wrote:


My first though would be: "How can I get laid", but then I'm a man, not a
fish.

Depending on the time of year, that's high on a fish's priorities too.
This morning I saw a huge Brown in the irrigation ditch that runs on my
property going through the motions of spawning even though she? had no mate.

Willi

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:

Gene C wrote in message . ..

I find this extremely depressing on many levels.



timbo must have lost his isp.

Although it's probably a troll, I'll take it up.


I assume from your post that the trout put in that stream can't live
through the Summer. So you want the fish left in the stream so they'll
die from temps that are too high to support them just so you can have
fun catching them? Who's the one that's selfish and short sighted?

I'm not a fan of put and take fisheries. I would much prefer that the
funds spent there be used for improving self sustaining fisheries. In
put and take waters, harvesting the fish before they die seems very
appropriate to me.

Willi

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

I have no objection to stocking where natural reproduction can't take
place. Stocking places where natural reproduction is possible is
detrimental to natural trout.
Ernie

I'd be curious to know the exact number of states which have naturally
reproducing trout populations. Of that number, how many had to have trout
introduced into them to establish that population?

While hatchery trout may not taste or fight like wild trout, and while put &
take fishing is far less desirable than stalking and catching fish from
natural populations, such programs do provide money that goes into
conservation budgets. The people who make use of such programs not only buy
licenses but rods, reels, flies, lines and all the cute little gadgets that
make other fly fishers happy. Many of them will never fling flies anyplace
else. Some will progress and move onto other waters.

Having such places actually does decrease pressure on natural populations in
marginal waters.

While the purists among us can sneer and moan about such things, there are
many people who are quite happily served by such fishing arrangements. And
everyone of them who fishes there is not standing next to you throwing his
line over yours.

When I grew up, where I grew up, seafood consisted of breaded, fried shrimp
shipped frozen and tasteless. I was fortunate to move and find out that
other seafood existed. Even today, there are parts of the nation where "red
lobster" provides the best seafood available. Sad but true.

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Seriously, consider what they'd been through. Suppose you'd been rousted
out of the only home you'd ever known, trucked in the dark to some
unknown place, and dumped in sudden daylight into strange smelling
water. Would eating be the first thing on your mind?

Ask Frank Reid. I think this exact same thing happened to him at Penns
2002.

That's just wrong, but true on many levels. I think there were a few folks
upstream of me using ultra light waders to filter what beano should have
stopped.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Steve,
Most of California's lakes and streams are capable of natural reproduction.
The ones that aren't are usually because man screwed them up with logging,
mining, damming, and overgrazing.
The Department of Fish and Game spends a huge percentage of their budget
on fish hatcheries, but they should be restoring the habitat. There are
miles and miles of mountain streams where cattle, sheep and horses have
overgrazed the National Forests and trampled the streams into mud, yet
nothing is done about it. It wouldn't be difficult or expensive to install
electric fences powered by solar batteries to keep the livestock back.from
the edges of the streams.
There is a stream in Northern California named Yellow Creek by Lake
Almanor. I went there and found a shallow stream with small trout. They
did an experiment where they fenced the cattle back. I went there again
three years after the installation and found a deep clear cold running
stream full of big natural trout. There were waist high wild flowers along
the stream. It was a joy to see.
For some reason our nearsighted Fish and Game and National Forest Service
can't see the advantage of having clear running streams with stable banks
and clean water with natural reproducing fish. It would beat the hell out
of fishing for finless rubber hatchery trout.
Ernie


slenon" wrote in message
I'd be curious to know the exact number of states which have naturally
reproducing trout populations. Of that number, how many had to have trout
introduced into them to establish that population?
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Stan Gula" wrote in
:

"rw" wrote in message
. ..
Wayne Harrison wrote:

explanations?

Wrong fly? :-)

Seriously, consider what they'd been through. Suppose you'd been rousted
out of the only home you'd ever known, trucked in the dark to some
unknown place, and dumped in sudden daylight into strange smelling
water. Would eating be the first thing on your mind?


My first though would be: "How can I get laid", but then I'm a man, not a
fish.



Actually, the described scene somewhat describes some of my intimate
encounters already!

Scott

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

For some reason our nearsighted Fish and Game and National Forest Service
can't see the advantage of having clear running streams with stable banks
and clean water with natural reproducing fish. It would beat the hell out
of fishing for finless rubber hatchery trout.
Ernie

I whole-heartedly agree with you. Cattle do not make good foresters. I'd
love to see more land protected and kept wild.

Not to play devil's advocate, really curious, do you think CA could manage a
trout fishery that would meet the needs of its populace without using some
hatchery stocking procedures?

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Wayne Harrison" wrote...
long story short: we tried six or eight combinations of dry flies, nymphs, and
boogers, and never moved a single fish.

explanations?

Aside from the 'shock' answer offered by others, perhaps they were fed
at the hatchery?

HTH,
Tom G

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

"Tom Gibson" wrote in message
om...
"Wayne Harrison" wrote...
long story short: we tried six or eight combinations of dry flies,
nymphs, and
boogers, and never moved a single fish.

explanations?

Aside from the 'shock' answer offered by others, perhaps they were fed
at the hatchery?

HTH,
Tom G

upon reflection, i suppose it must be the trauma factor. i think trout
will eat even if not "hungry".

yfitons
wayno

Put and Kill -so disgusting
 

Steve,
If they only planted hatchery fish in waters that couldn't reproduce, used
catch and release in waters that could, kept livestock back from the
streams, stopped loggers from destroying the habitat, kept mining under
control, stopped pollution and restricted water projects from taking the
water needed for the fisheries, this state would be one great fishing
statye.
Ernie

"slenon" wrote
Not to play devil's advocate, really curious, do you think CA could manage
a
trout fishery that would meet the needs of its populace without using some
hatchery stocking procedures?
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69