Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

Just lost my leader wallet, and all of my leaders. Before I go out
and by a whole new set, figured I'd get your collective opinions on
your favorite mono-tapered leaders, and leader wallets. But also, let
me describe my experience, and complaints:

I generally use Orvis Super Strong Nylon leaders (usually 9ft, 4x -
6x), and very occasionally their flourocarbon. I love the lines for
their strength. I rarely break off a fish with this stuff. But, one
thing I really hated about this last batch was the memory. Every time
I'd get out a new leader I'd have to use my leader straightener 2-3
times, and even then it still had some curls. I tried out a different
brand today (I believe it was Dai Riki?), and it definitely had less
of a memory issue.

So - what're your favorite leaders, with little memory issues? Have
any of the magazines ever done head-to-head comparisons for this kind
of thing?

Then, for a leader wallet, I also used Orvis'. What I didn't like
about that, was that every time I'd get it wet (which was pretty
frequently), the fabric would take a while to dry. I'd prefer
something that didn't hold water at all, I think. Some kind of vinyl,
perhaps? Thoughts?

Thanks guys...

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Sep 17, 8:39 pm, wrote:
Just lost my leader wallet, and all of my leaders. Before I go out
and by a whole new set, figured I'd get your collective opinions on
your favorite mono-tapered leaders, and leader wallets. But also, let
me describe my experience, and complaints:

I generally use Orvis Super Strong Nylon leaders (usually 9ft, 4x -
6x), and very occasionally their flourocarbon. I love the lines for
their strength. I rarely break off a fish with this stuff. But, one
thing I really hated about this last batch was the memory. Every time
I'd get out a new leader I'd have to use my leader straightener 2-3
times, and even then it still had some curls. I tried out a different
brand today (I believe it was Dai Riki?), and it definitely had less
of a memory issue.

So - what're your favorite leaders, with little memory issues? Have
any of the magazines ever done head-to-head comparisons for this kind
of thing?

Then, for a leader wallet, I also used Orvis'. What I didn't like
about that, was that every time I'd get it wet (which was pretty
frequently), the fabric would take a while to dry. I'd prefer
something that didn't hold water at all, I think. Some kind of vinyl,
perhaps? Thoughts?

Thanks guys...

it is as small as 4 # test.The line is moss green,it works good in
murky water,or on rivers.I have cought a lot of big trout with it .But
mono i use my own,that my son brews?up..but to buy orvis is good 9ft 3
to 6#..It has {ebt} enhanced body technology,super strong.You don't
even have to worie about wind knot's ..i use it on the owens river
alot.And at tim alpers trout ranch.The teeth on the trout is not a
problem eather..

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 05:39, wrote:
Just lost my leader wallet, and all of my leaders. Before I go out

If you want a good leader wallet, then look at CD carry cases;

http://www.dvd-and-media.com/cdr-sto...arry-cases.htm

http://www.rivierapublishing.co.uk/a...RRY_CASES.html

there are hundreds of types, the above is just a sample. There are
quite a few which are much better for carrying leaders than some of
the purpose built stuff.

All nylon has memory, it is an intrinsic property of such
thermoplastics. The only way to remove memory in kinked or curled
nylon, is to warm it up and stretch it, and then allow it to cool in
that state.

Rubber and leader "leader stretchers", do this by causing friction
when pulled over the nylon, but this may also damage the nylon.

One easy way to straighten leaders which are curled as a result of
storage, is to drop them into a cup of hot coffee etc, and then
stretch them, before cooling. This is especially good at low
temperatures, when the memory tendency is greater anyway.

I like Maxima nylon for many of my leaders, but any of the modern
nylon leaders work quite well. There are only a few nylon producers on
the planet. The various brand names are a result of re-packaging. Some
are a little stiffer at normal temperature than others, that is the
only difference.

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

The one I use , is similar to this;

http://www.gadgetsuk.com/48-CD-carry-case-p-17012.html

similar types are available at chain stores etc for very little money.

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

By the way, you can get the maxima leaders here;

http://www.cabelas.com/spodw-1/0000943.shtml

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:39:45 -0700,
wrote:

I generally use Orvis Super Strong Nylon leaders (usually 9ft, 4x -
6x), and very occasionally their flourocarbon.

As do I. I've been using Super Strong mono for about 20 years and
they are my favorite. I wouldn't worry about memory - I simply
stretch the leader in my hands before putting it on and consider the
memory a very minor problem.

I bought a leader wallet 20 years ago. I used it for one season and
found little use for it. Instead I store extra leaders in a handy
little inside pocket of my vest. Works for me. And yes, they get wet
as I do. If I'm not wet, I'm not catching fish. I have some great
water proof fly boxes. d;o)

Dave

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...

All nylon has memory, it is an intrinsic property of such
thermoplastics. The only way to remove memory in kinked or curled
nylon, is to warm it up and stretch it, and then allow it to cool in
that state.
TL
MC


Mike,
I enjoy having that memory in the line with nylon leaders & tippets. For me
it acts as cushion or shock absorber when you're hooked onto a fighting
fish. There were times on my past trip this past July on an Alaskan River,
that some of the rainbows would turn their heads in a split second when
hooked, or come out of the water and shake their heads violently. My friend
on the other hand has used fluorocarbon tippets, and there were quite a few
times he had broken off from violent shakes
I was wondering your take on this?
-tom

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 15:14, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:


Mike,
I enjoy having that memory in the line with nylon leaders & tippets. For me
it acts as cushion or shock absorber when you're hooked onto a fighting
fish. There were times on my past trip this past July on an Alaskan River,
that some of the rainbows would turn their heads in a split second when
hooked, or come out of the water and shake their heads violently. My friend
on the other hand has used fluorocarbon tippets, and there were quite a few
times he had broken off from violent shakes
I was wondering your take on this?
-tom

There is rather a problem with the nomenclature here. All nylon has
memory, ( as do all thermoplastics). this is what makes them flexible
and elastic, and as this property is intrinsic, it can not be removed.

What happens to nylon line, is that after being stored in coils, or
kinked etc, the line retains the memory of that state, and in order to
remove that state, the memory of the line must be adjusted, by heating
and stretching.

If thermoplastics are bent or stretched beyond their memory capability
to restore themselves, and don´t break, they may lose even the
possibility of restoration in that specific area of the line.The
molecular orientation is damaged.

When one winds nylon line on to a plastic spool under tension for
instance, the line still tries to return to its original state as a
result of its intrinsic memory. This cause the line to contract, as
it was stretched when wound on to the spool. This causes massive
pressure on the spool, and can easily break or deform plastic spools,
but it also programs the memory of the line to remain in tight coils.

The only way to restore the line, is to heat it to a suitable
temperature, and stretch it very slightly, if kept straight and
rapidly cooled, it will stay straight, as the long molecule ( Polymer
chains), have been reoriented. The result is also stronger per se, as
longitudinally oriented molecules are stronger than any other
orientation. The result is also thinner. This is how "super strong"
nylon is made, it is stretched under the application of heat, after
manufacture, and then rapidly cooled. If ordinary is nylon kept
straight, BUT UNDER NO TENSION AT ALL, and allowed to cool naturally,
it will return almost completely to its original state.

The same applies to any thermoplastic. If you pull a piece of
polythene until it deforms, the resulting piece is much stronger when
pulling stress is applied, but it will not deform any further, if
stretched beyond this point, it will simply break.

Fluorocarbon lines are merely pre stretched nylon lines coated with
fluorocarbon. The fluorocarbon compounds used have lesser or no
memory properties, and sudden stress causes them to break, as they can
not extend.

There is no real point in using fluorocarbon lines at all, They are
not less visible to the fish, and they are intrinsically weaker than
any other thermoplastic copolymer ( Nylon is a copolymer) lines, not
least as as a result of their lack of memory, and abrasion resistance.
Their much vaunted sinking capabilities are overrated.

Also, as the dreaded Fortenberry also quite correctly pointed out,
they will last a very long time, as fluorocarbon coated line will not
degrade like ordinary nylon line.

I agree with you up to a point and that is why I also use ordinary
nylon, as it has a considerable degree of elasticity, ( due to
intrinsic memory), and cushions itself to a degree.

However, I don´t like curls and kinks in my leaders, as for some of
the techniques I use, they would cause me to lose a lot of fish, or
prevent correct presentation. So I normally warm my leaders up ( on
stream, in hot coffee etc), and stretch them very slightly, and allow
them to coll, so that they remain staright.

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 15:45, Mike wrote:


Sorry about the typos there! Trying to make sure my lunch does not
burn, and typing at the same time! :)

That is also why knots in fluorocarbon nylon are extremely
unreliable. The marketing boys don´t tell you about all this of
course! They tell you to try other knots! :)

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 18 Sep, 15:14, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:


Mike,
I enjoy having that memory in the line with nylon leaders & tippets. For
me
it acts as cushion or shock absorber when you're hooked onto a fighting
fish. There were times on my past trip this past July on an Alaskan
River,
that some of the rainbows would turn their heads in a split second when
hooked, or come out of the water and shake their heads violently. My
friend
on the other hand has used fluorocarbon tippets, and there were quite a
few
times he had broken off from violent shakes
I was wondering your take on this?
-tom

There is rather a problem with the nomenclature here. All nylon has
memory, ( as do all thermoplastics). this is what makes them flexible
and elastic, and as this property is intrinsic, it can not be removed.

What happens to nylon line, is that after being stored in coils, or
kinked etc, the line retains the memory of that state, and in order to
remove that state, the memory of the line must be adjusted, by heating
and stretching.

If thermoplastics are bent or stretched beyond their memory capability
to restore themselves, and don´t break, they may lose even the
possibility of restoration in that specific area of the line.The
molecular orientation is damaged.

When one winds nylon line on to a plastic spool under tension for
instance, the line still tries to return to its original state as a
result of its intrinsic memory. This cause the line to contract, as
it was stretched when wound on to the spool. This causes massive
pressure on the spool, and can easily break or deform plastic spools,
but it also programs the memory of the line to remain in tight coils.

The only way to restore the line, is to heat it to a suitable
temperature, and stretch it very slightly, if kept straight and
rapidly cooled, it will stay straight, as the long molecule ( Polymer
chains), have been reoriented. The result is also stronger per se, as
longitudinally oriented molecules are stronger than any other
orientation. The result is also thinner. This is how "super strong"
nylon is made, it is stretched under the application of heat, after
manufacture, and then rapidly cooled. If ordinary is nylon kept
straight, BUT UNDER NO TENSION AT ALL, and allowed to cool naturally,
it will return almost completely to its original state.

The same applies to any thermoplastic. If you pull a piece of
polythene until it deforms, the resulting piece is much stronger when
pulling stress is applied, but it will not deform any further, if
stretched beyond this point, it will simply break.

Fluorocarbon lines are merely pre stretched nylon lines coated with
fluorocarbon. The fluorocarbon compounds used have lesser or no
memory properties, and sudden stress causes them to break, as they can
not extend.

There is no real point in using fluorocarbon lines at all, They are
not less visible to the fish, and they are intrinsically weaker than
any other thermoplastic copolymer ( Nylon is a copolymer) lines, not
least as as a result of their lack of memory, and abrasion resistance.
Their much vaunted sinking capabilities are overrated.

Also, as the dreaded Fortenberry also quite correctly pointed out,
they will last a very long time, as fluorocarbon coated line will not
degrade like ordinary nylon line.

I agree with you up to a point and that is why I also use ordinary
nylon, as it has a considerable degree of elasticity, ( due to
intrinsic memory), and cushions itself to a degree.

However, I don´t like curls and kinks in my leaders, as for some of
the techniques I use, they would cause me to lose a lot of fish, or
prevent correct presentation. So I normally warm my leaders up ( on
stream, in hot coffee etc), and stretch them very slightly, and allow
them to coll, so that they remain staright.

TL
MC

Thanks for clearing that up.
Yes, I stretch enough to take out the coils when casting, especially
when putting on new leaders and tippets.
I've seen those leather leader strengtheners, but never tried one, I've
just been using my hands to somewhat heat the leader material as I pull, at
least it's enough to take out some of the memory.

oh btw: I do enjoy your contributions to the group on fly-fishing....
-tom

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 16:20, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message


Thanks for clearing that up.
Yes, I stretch enough to take out the coils when casting, especially
when putting on new leaders and tippets.
I've seen those leather leader strengtheners, but never tried one, I've
just been using my hands to somewhat heat the leader material as I pull, at
least it's enough to take out some of the memory.

oh btw: I do enjoy your contributions to the group on fly-fishing....
-tom

Quite a few people use the leader straighteners, and they will in fact
work on the heavier nylon of butts etc, but if you use them on thin
points or tippets, thy will invariably damage the line. If you can
manage to straighten your leaders simply by pulling them through your
fingers, then this is the best way to go. It will usually remove curls
etc, if done properly, but ti wont remove kinks etc.

Just stretching the line, as some people seem to think, has no effect,
as the memory is not removed, heat is required to remove it. This
also applies to PVC fly lines. Stretching them as is often advised,
will not remove the memory, and will often only cause cracks in the
coating, and cause it to de-adhere form the non flexible core. To
remove the memory, put the line in very warm water, and then hold it
taut, ( but NOT overstretched) . This will make it perfectly straight
again, and it will remain so when it cools.

oh btw: I do enjoy your contributions to the group on fly-fishing....

I much prefer them myself! But needs must when the devil ( or his
associates!) drives.

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:39:45 -0700,
wrote:

Just lost my leader wallet, and all of my leaders. Before I go out
and by a whole new set, figured I'd get your collective opinions on
your favorite mono-tapered leaders, and leader wallets. But also, let
me describe my experience, and complaints:

I generally use Orvis Super Strong Nylon leaders (usually 9ft, 4x -
6x), and very occasionally their flourocarbon. I love the lines for
their strength. I rarely break off a fish with this stuff. But, one
thing I really hated about this last batch was the memory. Every time
I'd get out a new leader I'd have to use my leader straightener 2-3
times, and even then it still had some curls. I tried out a different
brand today (I believe it was Dai Riki?), and it definitely had less
of a memory issue.

So - what're your favorite leaders, with little memory issues? Have
any of the magazines ever done head-to-head comparisons for this kind
of thing?

Then, for a leader wallet, I also used Orvis'. What I didn't like
about that, was that every time I'd get it wet (which was pretty
frequently), the fabric would take a while to dry. I'd prefer
something that didn't hold water at all, I think. Some kind of vinyl,
perhaps? Thoughts?

Thanks guys...

Don't store your leaders coiled. Put a couple of wire nails about 10-12
feet/3-4m apart in a climate-controlled room and use plastic coated
paperclips and rubber bands to store them. I've got such set-ups in a
number of places and if done high up (at or near the ceiling, at or near
the crown or picture moulding, etc.) and on the entry-door wall, they
all but disappear. At the very least, store them in as large a coil as
possible - put a cuphook in the back of a large piece of furniture and
store them there in large coils (this works for line, too).

I wouldn't use a leader wallet, but if I did, I'd only use it as a very
temporary carrying device, not a storage device. If one is determined
to use one, and one chooses a vinyl one with "envelopes" (i.e., one that
can trap water in the "envelopes"), one is faced with dampness issues.
They are "fabric" and "mesh" for a reason.

As to carrying a large CD wallet astream - WTF? As to storage, it
wouldn't be my choice, but hey, that's why there is chocolate and
vanilla. If you simply must have a wallet, and don't like the Orvis
one, maybe look for a sal****er rig wallet or a plastic worm wallet in
vinyl.

For carrying astream, I'd offer that simply sticking a couple
(individually) in small ziptop packets would suffice, and when returning
home, replace on the "rack." I personally like the small dental floss
"boxes" for a lot of things, including tippet, but YMMV.

As to the leaders themselves, I don't find all that much difference
between the multitude of brandings when comparing apples to apples,
material- and construction-wise. IOW, there are differences when
comparing mono to braid or mono to fluoro, but, um, "mono a mono," IMO,
there just isn't the vast differences some think there is - again, YMMV.

TC,
R

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

wrote in message
...


Don't store your leaders coiled. Put a couple of wire nails about 10-12
feet/3-4m apart in a climate-controlled room and use plastic coated
paperclips and rubber bands to store them.

Well, sure, that's good enough as far as it goes.......but what about
stopping neutrinos?

Wolfgang
who knows that one ignores entropy at one's peril.

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 16:20, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:

oh btw: I do enjoy your contributions to the group on fly-fishing....
-tom

Just in case it was not clear, my main reason for using Maxima, is
because it has a matt finish. I consider this to be of paramount
importance, especially, but not only, for dry fly fishing. Most other
nylons have a smooth mirror finish, and the glinting from this can
spook fish badly. One may de-glint nylon by pulling it through a
paste of Fuller´s earth, but this is not necessary with Maxima. Also,
to make it sink, one merely needs to pull it through a very dilute
soap solution.

Unfortunately, and directly due to the "rough" matt finish, it is more
or less impossible to straighten fine Maxima using your fingers, or
(leader straighteners), the co-efficient of friction is very much
greater than that of smooth nylon, and usually it will break.

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 18 Sep, 16:20, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:

oh btw: I do enjoy your contributions to the group on fly-fishing....
-tom

Just in case it was not clear, my main reason for using Maxima, is
because it has a matt finish. I consider this to be of paramount
importance, especially, but not only, for dry fly fishing. Most other
nylons have a smooth mirror finish, and the glinting from this can
spook fish badly. One may de-glint nylon by pulling it through a
paste of Fuller´s earth, but this is not necessary with Maxima. Also,
to make it sink, one merely needs to pull it through a very dilute
soap solution.

Unfortunately, and directly due to the "rough" matt finish, it is more
or less impossible to straighten fine Maxima using your fingers, or
(leader straighteners), the co-efficient of friction is very much
greater than that of smooth nylon, and usually it will break.

TL
MC

You're the 2nd person in this newsgroup that suggested Maxima
leaders for good reason, I'll have to try them.
-tom

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 17:24, Mike wrote:


You might also like to try the technique described at the bottom of
the following article. These work very well indeed for a lot of
things, and can be made limp and straight by dipping them in boiling
water, and keeping them straight while they cool;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...nes/lines.html

Just as an interesting aside, many guitarists boil their strings
before a concert, this "re-formats" the molecular orientation of the
string, ( both nylon and metal strings like steel or bronze wound),
and they sound crisper. The effect does not last long though, and can
only be used a couple of times at most, but it saves spending a lot of
money on brand new strings every time.

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

Mike wrote in news:1190129081.922670.212140
@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

I consider this to be of paramount
importance, especially, but not only, for dry fly fishing.

I think the deformation of the surface film is so much more visible than
anything having to do with the optical properties of the leader that unless
you can find a way to make the leader magically suspend a few thousandths
above the film, it's not worth worrying about.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

One last point which may be of use to some. Many years ago now, it was
common for people to wind a few leaders around their hats. This works
very well. One removes any memory at home, and winds the resulting
straight limp leaders around the hat. I have an Orvis Gore-tex wide
brimmed hat, which I use expressly for this purpose. I have had this
hat a very long time now, over thirty years. I made some special
lambswool hat bands for it, with a short piece of elasticated material
( knicker, or "shirring" elastic). usnig these I can carry half a
dozen leaders easily, and because they are in large coils, they never
cause any problems.

The lambswool bands ( dyed brown in order to be less conspicuous), are
also very useful for sticking wet flies in. (Wont work for barbless
hooks of course) The hat band shown is a sal****er seatrout band.

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/7215/pict0001yo5.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9328/pict0002uc6.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9968/pict0003cy8.jpg

Of course, this only works if you use such a hat.

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 18:10, Scott Seidman wrote:
Mike wrote in news:1190129081.922670.212140
@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

I consider this to be of paramount
importance, especially, but not only, for dry fly fishing.

I think the deformation of the surface film is so much more visible than
anything having to do with the optical properties of the leader that unless
you can find a way to make the leader magically suspend a few thousandths
above the film, it's not worth worrying about.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

If a line is sunk, it does not deform the surface film. If a line is
treated with a suitable wetting agent, it sinks immediately, because
it removes the surface film. While there are some dry fly designs and
techniques which allow one to fish with a sunken leader, the majority
rely on a floating leader, as a sunken leader merely pulls the fly
under.

Mirror finish nylon is more visible under water as well. Easy to
see,just put some in a glass of clear water and view it.

MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 18 Sep, 17:24, Mike wrote:


You might also like to try the technique described at the bottom of
the following article. These work very well indeed for a lot of
things, and can be made limp and straight by dipping them in boiling
water, and keeping them straight while they cool;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...nes/lines.html

Just as an interesting aside, many guitarists boil their strings
before a concert, this "re-formats" the molecular orientation of the
string, ( both nylon and metal strings like steel or bronze wound),
and they sound crisper. The effect does not last long though, and can
only be used a couple of times at most, but it saves spending a lot of
money on brand new strings every time.

TL
MC



I do like the warm water technique for straightening out leaders.
-tom

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

Mike wrote in news:1190133973.500953.165950@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

While there are some dry fly designs and
techniques which allow one to fish with a sunken leader, the majority
rely on a floating leader, as a sunken leader merely pulls the fly
under.

My point exactly. The leader/tippet sits on the film, deforming it, and
this is more visible than the line itself.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 18:49, Scott Seidman wrote:
Mike wrote in news:1190133973.500953.165950@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

While there are some dry fly designs and
techniques which allow one to fish with a sunken leader, the majority
rely on a floating leader, as a sunken leader merely pulls the fly
under.

My point exactly. The leader/tippet sits on the film, deforming it, and
this is more visible than the line itself.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

That is true, but a de-glinted or matt finished tippet is less visible
even when floating. Also easy to try, just float a couple of pieces in
a light coloured dish. Observe the shadows thrown under various light,
and then look up at the pieces in a glass.

MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Sep 17, 11:39 pm, wrote:
Just lost my leader wallet, and all of my leaders. Before I go out
and by a whole new set, figured I'd get your collective opinions on
your favorite mono-tapered leaders, and leader wallets. But also, let
me describe my experience, and complaints:

I generally use Orvis Super Strong Nylon leaders (usually 9ft, 4x -
6x), and very occasionally their flourocarbon. I love the lines for
their strength. I rarely break off a fish with this stuff. But, one
thing I really hated about this last batch was the memory. Every time
I'd get out a new leader I'd have to use my leader straightener 2-3
times, and even then it still had some curls. I tried out a different
brand today (I believe it was Dai Riki?), and it definitely had less
of a memory issue.

So - what're your favorite leaders, with little memory issues? Have
any of the magazines ever done head-to-head comparisons for this kind
of thing?

Then, for a leader wallet, I also used Orvis'. What I didn't like
about that, was that every time I'd get it wet (which was pretty
frequently), the fabric would take a while to dry. I'd prefer
something that didn't hold water at all, I think. Some kind of vinyl,
perhaps? Thoughts?

Thanks guys...

I like Climax for the knotless tapered leader. As Ken said, usually
drawing it through your fingers wil generate enough heat to make it
straight enough fo use. I really have no preference as to leader
wallets. I generally just carry a spare leader in it's original
packaging in a small vest pocket.

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:46:13 -0700, Mike
wrote:

On 18 Sep, 18:10, Scott Seidman wrote:
Mike wrote in news:1190129081.922670.212140
@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

I consider this to be of paramount
importance, especially, but not only, for dry fly fishing.

I think the deformation of the surface film is so much more visible than
anything having to do with the optical properties of the leader that unless
you can find a way to make the leader magically suspend a few thousandths
above the film, it's not worth worrying about.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

If a line is sunk, it does not deform the surface film. If a line is
treated with a suitable wetting agent, it sinks immediately, because
it removes the surface film. While there are some dry fly designs and
techniques which allow one to fish with a sunken leader, the majority
rely on a floating leader, as a sunken leader merely pulls the fly
under.

Mirror finish nylon is more visible under water as well. Easy to
see,just put some in a glass of clear water and view it.

A perfect example...if you are fishing in a glass of clear water...for
people...outside the glass...

If anyone is interested in what mono looks like (to humans/cameras) on
the surface and UW, there are myriad resources, including a number of
line companies. None of the sensible ones involve putting mono in a
glass of water. OTOH, unless one has a fish one can ask, about all that
one can do is make educated guesses as to what a fish sees. And since
people were catching fish long before whatever latest "MIRACLE insert
product here!!!" was being foisted off, the chances of the
aforementioned miracle product being the key to your catching fish where
you couldn't before is pretty slim. IOW, if you ain't catching fish, it
ain't the gear/tackle...

R

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 18:48, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

oups.com...



On 18 Sep, 17:24, Mike wrote:

You might also like to try the technique described at the bottom of
the following article. These work very well indeed for a lot of
things, and can be made limp and straight by dipping them in boiling
water, and keeping them straight while they cool;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on..._Long_Rod/Line...

Just as an interesting aside, many guitarists boil their strings
before a concert, this "re-formats" the molecular orientation of the
string, ( both nylon and metal strings like steel or bronze wound),
and they sound crisper. The effect does not last long though, and can
only be used a couple of times at most, but it saves spending a lot of
money on brand new strings every time.

TL
MC

I do like the warm water technique for straightening out leaders.
-tom

On 18 Sep, 18:01, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:


You're the 2nd person in this newsgroup that suggested Maxima
leaders for good reason, I'll have to try them.
-tom

Actually I only consider it important for tippet, it is not necessary
to buy the whole leaders;

http://www.flyfishusa.com/leaders/maxima.html

I am not sure about the other blurb on it. I don´t know whether "infra
red sensitivity" makes any difference, but it sounds suspiciously like
bull****! :)

It would also be pointless to use the leaders with the wrong tippet.

Many old time anglers dyed their tippets, either of gut or horsehair,
to suit particular conditions. This made a big difference with gut,
and many considered it essential to success. All the old wet fly books
give recipes for dyeing tippet, and many of these will work on nylon
as well. I have tried a couple, but to be honest I never noticed any
major difference to other nylon. I have however noticed major
differences when using matt maxima. I get fewer refusals to dry
flies, and it also works better for a lot of "shallow", ( barely
subsurface) spider techniques. I also use it for droppers in this
regard, and as it is somewhat stiffer than many other products of the
same diameter and breaking strain, it tangles less.

People get to prefer some things out of habit, and because it works OK
for them, so they don´t bother trying much else. I prefer to base my
choices on more concrete reasons, and so I have tried many things over
the years. It is not enough for me to know that something works, I
like to know why.

Attention to detail catches more fish than any other single skill.

TL
MC

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group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.

Your account or Internet address has exceeded our posting limit at
this time, please try again later.

If you believe this is an error, please contact Google Support.

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

Also, practically any other nylon will work just as well if it is de-
glinted and is not completely clear. ( or some ridiculous colour like
fluorescent yellow or red etc) I dyed some nylon blue, and de-glinted
it with Fuller´s earth, and it worked just as well as the maxima. But
the maxima saves me messing about like that. It is already dyed and de-
glinted.

TL
MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:55:48 -0700, Mike
wrote:

On 18 Sep, 18:49, Scott Seidman wrote:
Mike wrote in news:1190133973.500953.165950@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

While there are some dry fly designs and
techniques which allow one to fish with a sunken leader, the majority
rely on a floating leader, as a sunken leader merely pulls the fly
under.

My point exactly. The leader/tippet sits on the film, deforming it, and
this is more visible than the line itself.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

That is true, but a de-glinted or matt finished tippet is less visible
even when floating. Also easy to try, just float a couple of pieces in
a light coloured dish. Observe the shadows thrown under various light,
and then look up at the pieces in a glass.

Wow...that makes the "tossing a fly at a bowl" that you (and
interestingly, a couple of your sock pup...er, anonymous supporters)
offered up as proof of concept seem like big-time science...

By-the-by, for those that might wish to take ol' nappy-headed's
"experiments" seriously, don't forget to take the "various lights" used,
as well as the glass so as to let the fish use it to view your leader on
the surface...

Here's a hint: Ask someone to put a pencil with writing on it writing
side down, AHEM, _on_ a piece of paper and hold it up so you can look at
the _underside_ of the paper. OK. Now, what does the pencil have
written on it?

HTH,
R

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 19:27, Mike wrote:
Also, practically any other nylon will work just as well if it is de-
glinted and is not completely clear. ( or some ridiculous colour like
fluorescent yellow or red etc) I dyed some nylon blue, and de-glinted
it with Fuller´s earth, and it worked just as well as the maxima. But
the maxima saves me messing about like that. It is already dyed and de-
glinted.

TL
MC

If anybody would like to try this, just place a spool of nylon in cold
tea, or the infusion from a good number of onion skins. It certainly
is less visible to human eyes then, and in certain water conditions,
is doubtless also less visible to the fish. When also de-glinted, it
seems as good as the maxima.

Dickie boy, you might like to try the following;

Fill a bath with water, float some nylon on the water, after you have
removed it from your living room ceiling, you may also tie a pencil to
it if you wish, and then immerse your head in the bath for twenty
minutes or so to observe the results. Come back and tell us how it
worked.

MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

May also be of interest; Full text here;
http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...al_angler.html

QUOTE

Lines are now usually made by a machine, and if care be taken in their
construction, they can be made much better in this manner than by the
hand. They can be bought at such a moderate price, that it is not
worth any angler's trouble making them for himself. They are made of
horse hair, or a mixture of hair and silk; those made of hair entirely
are more durable than any other kind, as they are not so liable to rot
as all lines are of which silk forms a component part. The latter,
however, are stronger for their bulk, and are much more easily thrown;
two considerable advantages. Lines made entirely of silk, prepared in
some patent manner, are now in very common use, and seem likely to
supersede every other kind. They are very strong, and are more easily
thrown than any kind of line, but like all lines made of silk, they
will rot unless dried after being wet. As to the length of line, the
angler should he guided entirely by the size of the river he intends
fishing in. For small streams, twenty yards will be quite sufficient,
but in first class rivers and lochs three times that quantity will be
necessary.

After the ordinary winch-line, it is usual to have a casting-line of
horse hair loosely twisted, or triple gut. Some anglers prefer the
hair because they think it lighter, which, however is a mistake, as
gut is stronger for its weight than any material the angler can use,
and is also heavier for its bulk, which is a great assistance to
casting.

Gut.-This article is made from the entrails of the silk worm before it
casts its silk, and is principally manufactured in Spain, Portugal,
Italy, and Sicily.Of all the materials used by the angler, it is the
one which it is most difficult to procure good, and which it is most
necessary should be so. For angling in clear water, inhabited by
cunning cautious trout, fine thin gut is absolutely necessary for
success, and we think that anglers in Scotland are in general not
sufficiently aware of the importance of fine gut. An immense quantity
is imported annually, put up in hanks of about a hundred threads each.
So far as we can judge, a good deal appears to be spoilt in the
manufacture. As it is made at present, nine hanks out of ten are
totally unfit for fine trouting purposes, and even the very finest
hanks seldom contain more than twenty threads fit for dressing flies,
or bait hooks upon. The first angler who travels in Spain should try
to prevail upon the Spaniards to pay a little more attention to the
manufacture of this article ; it would amply repay them for their
trouble, as they would get three times the price for it.

Meantime all anglers should use none but the very finest threads, and
if they continue doing so, coarse gut will become valueless, and the
demand will soon influence the manufacture. We are informed by an
importer that gut used to be made much better, but that the price has
fallen so low, that it will not remunerate for the trouble required to
make it fine so that anglers have themselves to blame. The qualities
good gut should possess are roundness, transparency, and thinness.
Unless gut is round it glitters in the sun, which renders it useless
to the angler ; it must also be perfectly free from that white glossy
appearance which round gut frequently has, and which renders it more
easily seen than clear gut of twice the thickness. Thinness, however,
is the great desideratum, as the thinner it is there is the less
chance of the trout detecting it. Some anglers, particularly those in
the north, seem to think that gut cannot be had too thick, whereas the
reverse is the case, it cannot be had too fine.

Of late years, fishing-tackle manufacturers have been in the habit of
reducing the size of gut, which is done by drawing it through a
machine, and paring away a considerable portion of the gut. By this
means it may be made of any thinness, but it injures the texture of
the gut, and destroys its transparency, and it is certainly better if
it can be had sufficiently fine without reducing. Gut prepared in this
manner is also very expensive; costing from ten to sixteen shillings a
hank.

***************
All gut is more or less of a clear colour, which glitters in the sun,
and in order to divest it of this it requires to be stained. The
colour of the dye used is of little consequence; the object being to
render it of a dull colour, and this may be best accomplished by dying
it of a bluish green. This dye may be made by boiling a handful of
logwood in a pint of water, and adding copperas till it is of the
required colour. A piece of copperas about half the size of a pea will
be sufficient; if too much is put in it will make it quite blue. The
gut should be put into the liquid when cold, and allowed to remain
till it is of the required colour.
***************

( Similar passages to this may be found in many books. MC)

Gut plays a very important part in the formation of all trouting
tackle; hooks of every description should be dressed upon it; and all
casting-lines, and, indeed, every part of the line that is intended to
touch the water, should be made of this material.

After the ordinary winch-line, there should be a casting-line composed
of seven or eight lengths of triple gut twisted together. This can
only be done properly by a machine for the purpose, which may be had
in any fishing-tackle shop. Only the longest threads should be
selected for this purpose, and they should be as nearly as possible of
one thickness.
Before attaching them to the machine, they should be soaked in cold
water for half an hour, or they will be certain to break After the
lengths are twisted, they may be joined together according to the
angler´s taste, taking care that they taper form one end to the other.
The most secure method of joing them is with the single slip-knot,
lapping the ends over with well waxed silk thread; a little spirit
varnish makes all secure.

Another way of joining them is by whipping the ends together with
silk; this is the neater plan of the two, but it is continually giving
way, andrequires to be done over again; so that, unless the angler
makes makesup hos own tackle, he will find it excedingyl troublesome;
anglers practising this method, should always keep the joinings well
varished.

After the triple gut line, there should be four or five lengths of
picked gut, tapered in thickness to where the fly or bait tackle is
attached; these should be joined together by a common knot. Instead of
fastening the fly or bait cast to this by a loop, as is usually done,
it is better to fasten it by a knot, as this is neater, and makes less
show in the water.

There is nothing so apt to slip as gut, and therefore thr knot by
which to tie threads together is of some imoportance. The water knot
is made by laying the two ends toghether, rolling them round the
forefinger of the left hand, and passing one thread and the adjoining
end through the loop thus formed; this is called the single water-
knot, an dis very neat,but apt to slip. The double water-knot is done
in the same way; but the ends are passed twice through instead of
once, making a very firm knot, but rather clumsy.

The single slip-knot is made by laying the ends together, and simply
knotting the one round the other; in the right direction it will hold
together, but may be separated by pulling the short ends.
UNQUOTE

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:48:42 -0700, Mike
wrote:

On 18 Sep, 19:27, Mike wrote:
Also, practically any other nylon will work just as well if it is de-
glinted and is not completely clear. ( or some ridiculous colour like
fluorescent yellow or red etc) I dyed some nylon blue, and de-glinted
it with Fuller´s earth, and it worked just as well as the maxima. But
the maxima saves me messing about like that. It is already dyed and de-
glinted.

TL
MC

If anybody would like to try this, just place a spool of nylon in cold
tea, or the infusion from a good number of onion skins. It certainly
is less visible to human eyes then, and in certain water conditions,
is doubtless also less visible to the fish. When also de-glinted, it
seems as good as the maxima.

Dickie boy, you might like to try the following;

Fill a bath with water, float some nylon on the water, after you have
removed it from your living room ceiling, you may also tie a pencil to
it if you wish, and then immerse your head in the bath for twenty
minutes or so to observe the results. Come back and tell us how it
worked.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Gee, for a guy who killfiled most of ROFF, you sure seem to know what
was posted...

Hee-hee-hee,
Dickie boy

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 20:45, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:48:42 -0700, Mike
wrote:



On 18 Sep, 19:27, Mike wrote:
Also, practically any other nylon will work just as well if it is de-
glinted and is not completely clear. ( or some ridiculous colour like
fluorescent yellow or red etc) I dyed some nylon blue, and de-glinted
it with Fuller´s earth, and it worked just as well as the maxima. But
the maxima saves me messing about like that. It is already dyed and de-
glinted.

TL
MC

If anybody would like to try this, just place a spool of nylon in cold
tea, or the infusion from a good number of onion skins. It certainly
is less visible to human eyes then, and in certain water conditions,
is doubtless also less visible to the fish. When also de-glinted, it
seems as good as the maxima.

Dickie boy, you might like to try the following;

Fill a bath with water, float some nylon on the water, after you have
removed it from your living room ceiling, you may also tie a pencil to
it if you wish, and then immerse your head in the bath for twenty
minutes or so to observe the results. Come back and tell us how it
worked.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Gee, for a guy who killfiled most of ROFF, you sure seem to know what
was posted...

Hee-hee-hee,
Dickie boy

Unfortunately Dickie boy, the kill file only works when I use an
external mail program to view ROFF. When I use Google groups direct,
there does not appear to be any provision for a kill file, which means
I am sadly obliged to view your twaddle anyway.

I am sure this is upsetting for you.

Might I also take the liberty of reminding you that the subject under
discussion is "leaders". So perhaps you could go back to telling us
how you festoon them around your house on nails driven into the
ceiling, or similar abstruse ideas. Perhaps you could send us a photo?
It is exceedingly doubtful that anybody will actually do it, but it
has a rather compelling, albeit very weird, charm, hearing that you do
it. Assuming you actually do it of course, and are not just lying
again.

MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:57:14 -0700, Mike
wrote:

On 18 Sep, 20:45, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:48:42 -0700, Mike
wrote:



On 18 Sep, 19:27, Mike wrote:
Also, practically any other nylon will work just as well if it is de-
glinted and is not completely clear. ( or some ridiculous colour like
fluorescent yellow or red etc) I dyed some nylon blue, and de-glinted
it with Fuller´s earth, and it worked just as well as the maxima. But
the maxima saves me messing about like that. It is already dyed and de-
glinted.

TL
MC

If anybody would like to try this, just place a spool of nylon in cold
tea, or the infusion from a good number of onion skins. It certainly
is less visible to human eyes then, and in certain water conditions,
is doubtless also less visible to the fish. When also de-glinted, it
seems as good as the maxima.

Dickie boy, you might like to try the following;

Fill a bath with water, float some nylon on the water, after you have
removed it from your living room ceiling, you may also tie a pencil to
it if you wish, and then immerse your head in the bath for twenty
minutes or so to observe the results. Come back and tell us how it
worked.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Gee, for a guy who killfiled most of ROFF, you sure seem to know what
was posted...

Hee-hee-hee,
Dickie boy

Unfortunately Dickie boy, the kill file only works when I use an
external mail program to view ROFF. When I use Google groups direct,
there does not appear to be any provision for a kill file, which means
I am sadly obliged to view your twaddle anyway.

I am sure this is upsetting for you.

Might I also take the liberty of reminding you that the subject under
discussion is "leaders". So perhaps you could go back to telling us
how you festoon them around your house on nails driven into the
ceiling, or similar abstruse ideas. Perhaps you could send us a photo?
It is exceedingly doubtful that anybody will actually do it, but it
has a rather compelling, albeit very weird, charm, hearing that you do
it. Assuming you actually do it of course, and are not just lying
again.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You're "obliged" by Google, huh? Maybe you ought to get your solicitor,
the FBI, and the Chamber of Commerce working on that...

You have the self-control of a four year old child...

Dickie boy

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 21:05, wrote:


You have the self-control of a four year old child...

Dickie boy

Which is a great deal more than can be said for you. Atrocious manners
as well. You are wasting your time Dickie boy, I have decided not to
let myself be provoked by you, and there is nothing you can do about
it. It makes no difference to me what you write here, you have already
provided ample proof that most of it is nonsense, and it is quite
obvious that nobody takes it seriously.

I will simply continue to answer any questions on fly-fishing I feel
qualified to comment on, and you can simply continue posting abuse and
nonsense.

Nobody cares Dickie boy.

MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

A whole bunch of useless info snipped for brevity.

Short version:

If you use a leading manufacturer of leaders and tippets, you need not
worry about anything. A little heat from your fingers to straighten
the leader so that you can use it. Shadows in lighted glasses? Duh!
How's come all of us are so successful catching fish on dry flies?
Took some big brookies and landlocks just a couple of days ago on
gasp leaders with gasp shadows. I've had shadows for 70 years
now. Doesn't seem to hurt my fishing. Of course if you put a fish in
a glass, shine a light on him and THEN try to catch him, well, the
shadows are gonna scare the poor creature.

OP: Continue to use Orvis leaders and tippet. Straighten the leadear
with heat from your hands. Too hot? If it's too hot for your hands,
it's too hot for the leader. Don't use a leader straightener because
you can not feel the heat. Carry ONE spare leader in your vest.
Problem solved.

Dave
PS: Listen to what Fortenberry, Richard, and George have said. They
fish regularly and do not need to google for answers. AND, they catch
fish, as I do, REGULARLY! d;o)

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 21:47, Dave LaCourse wrote:
A whole bunch of useless info snipped for brevity.


Brevity would be better served if you refrained from posting at all.
people who ask these questions want information on how to solve their
problems, not your constantly regurgitated "wisdom" on the matter.

If people listened to Dickie boy, and festooned their ceilings with
nylon, then they wouldn´t catch any more fish, and people would think
they are completely nuts.

If people could afford, like you, to go and fish at expensive resorts
teeming with fish, which are obviously easy to catch, as otherwise you
wouldn´t catch any, being as stupid as you obviously are, then they
would doubtless also not care much about a twisted leader or similar.
They would just spend more money.

I don´t really know why you keep on posting this ****, it serves no
useful purpose, and just makes people think you are stupid. It makes
no difference whatsoever to me, or to the people who actually take my
advice.

MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:03:53 -0700, Mike
wrote:

On 18 Sep, 21:47, Dave LaCourse wrote:
A whole bunch of useless info snipped for brevity.


Brevity would be better served if you refrained from posting at all.
people who ask these questions want information on how to solve their
problems, not your constantly regurgitated "wisdom" on the matter.

Hey, I thought you were ignoring me. Twist.... tweek... push...
pull... watch the monkey jump up and talk more rubbish. d;o)

If people listened to Dickie boy, and festooned their ceilings with
nylon, then they wouldn´t catch any more fish, and people would think
they are completely nuts.

Actually his storage advise is very good. Don't store them coiled -
straighten them and store them that way. I think his advice very
good. And, he didn't google for it. d;o)

If people could afford, like you, to go and fish at expensive resorts
teeming with fish, which are obviously easy to catch, as otherwise you
wouldn´t catch any, being as stupid as you obviously are, then they
would doubtless also not care much about a twisted leader or similar.
They would just spend more money.

Man, Mike, you certainly do assume a helluva lot. Just because I have
money doesn't mean I spend it foolishly. I fish the Rapid River and
other wild rivers in Maine. They are open to the public and the fish
are difficult to catch. I have seen some outstanding fly fishers get
skunked on that river simply because they didn't know what, how, and
when. It is not about money, Mike; it is about experience - getting
out of the house and FISHING, not sitting by your computer googling.
d;o)

I don´t really know why you keep on posting this ****, it serves no
useful purpose, and just makes people think you are stupid. It makes
no difference whatsoever to me, or to the people who actually take my
advice.

MC

Mike, you are ill. Seriously ill. The adivce given by Fortenberry,
George, Richard and me is spot on with no bull**** involved. The OP
should continue with the leaders he has always used, straighten them
with his fingers, and forget about a leader wallet. Simple, down to
earth advice. No lights. No glasses. No shadows. No bull****.
Simple I-know-it-works-because-I-fish-and-catch-fish advice. Simple.

Davie Boy or as you like to say Lacourse sic

d;o)

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:24:40 -0500, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .


Don't store your leaders coiled. Put a couple of wire nails about 10-12
feet/3-4m apart in a climate-controlled room and use plastic coated
paperclips and rubber bands to store them.

Well, sure, that's good enough as far as it goes.......but what about
stopping neutrinos?

Wolfgang
who knows that one ignores entropy at one's peril.



I don't know about neutrinos but one of the guys on the WI MB just
emailed me asking for your leader formula Wolf. It was Jeremy, the
Brit. He tried one at Avalanche a few years ago and they impressed
him. He says that he's approaching perfection and they just might push
him over the edge.

g.c.

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On 18 Sep, 22:31, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:03:53 -0700, Mike
wrote:

On 18 Sep, 21:47, Dave LaCourse wrote:
A whole bunch of useless info snipped for brevity.

Brevity would be better served if you refrained from posting at all.
people who ask these questions want information on how to solve their
problems, not your constantly regurgitated "wisdom" on the matter.

Hey, I thought you were ignoring me. Twist.... tweek... push...
pull... watch the monkey jump up and talk more rubbish. d;o)

If people listened to Dickie boy, and festooned their ceilings with
nylon, then they wouldn´t catch any more fish, and people would think
they are completely nuts.

Actually his storage advise is very good. Don't store them coiled -
straighten them and store them that way. I think his advice very
good. And, he didn't google for it. d;o)

If people could afford, like you, to go and fish at expensive resorts
teeming with fish, which are obviously easy to catch, as otherwise you
wouldn´t catch any, being as stupid as you obviously are, then they
would doubtless also not care much about a twisted leader or similar.
They would just spend more money.

Man, Mike, you certainly do assume a helluva lot. Just because I have
money doesn't mean I spend it foolishly. I fish the Rapid River and
other wild rivers in Maine. They are open to the public and the fish
are difficult to catch. I have seen some outstanding fly fishers get
skunked on that river simply because they didn't know what, how, and
when. It is not about money, Mike; it is about experience - getting
out of the house and FISHING, not sitting by your computer googling.
d;o)

I don´t really know why you keep on posting this ****, it serves no
useful purpose, and just makes people think you are stupid. It makes
no difference whatsoever to me, or to the people who actually take my
advice.

MC

Mike, you are ill. Seriously ill. The adivce given by Fortenberry,
George, Richard and me is spot on with no bull**** involved. The OP
should continue with the leaders he has always used, straighten them
with his fingers, and forget about a leader wallet. Simple, down to
earth advice. No lights. No glasses. No shadows. No bull****.
Simple I-know-it-works-because-I-fish-and-catch-fish advice. Simple.

Davie Boy or as you like to say Lacourse sic

d;o)

You wont find any of the leader information I posted on Google Davie
boy. Your constant and extremely stupid repetitions are very boring as
well. I am not only as healthy as a horse, both physically and
mentally, but I simply know more about fly-fishing than you do, and
most people here know it. It makes no difference how much you rant
and wish it were otherwise, it is simply fact.

MC

Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)
 

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:25:19 -0700, Mike
wrote:

You wont find any of the leader information I posted on Google Davie
boy. Your constant and extremely stupid repetitions are very boring as
well. I am not only as healthy as a horse, both physically and
mentally, but I simply know more about fly-fishing than you do, and
most people here know it. It makes no difference how much you rant
and wish it were otherwise, it is simply fact.

And yet..... you don't fish for fresh water fish like we do here in
the States. No brookies. No rainbows. No landlocked salmon. No
chinook or cohos. WE fish, Mike. You may THINK you know more than
anyone (except, of course, the departed George Gehrke who forgot more
than you will ever know). You talk and talk and talk from atop your
pompous pony, but you have no emperical evidence to back up your talk.
Just google it and it is the truth. I fish a 100 days a year for cold
water species including stripers. We here in the states, we roffians,
FISH. We don't talk about it or have to google anything. We have the
experience, knowledge, and most importantly *empirical evidence*.
These people of roff who give advice have fished Montana, Idaho, BC,
Ontario, Quebec, Alaska, Labrador, Russia, Washington, Oregon, New
Mexico, North Carolina, Maine, the streams of the Great Lakes in both
Canada and the States, Chile, Patagonia, and the salt from Maine to
Panama. And, furthermore, they have done so *successfully*. Where
have you fished recently? Do you sit atop your pompous pony when you
fish?

Yeah, we're pricks. We give some people a hard time, especially the
pompous assholes. But ask a legitimate question on roff and one of us
will have DONE it.

Gehrke knew more than you will ever know about fly fishing, and he
didn't learn it from reading a google site; he learned it by DOING it.
Perhaps that is what you need to do, Mike. Or stick to what you know
- making rods and tying flies. And googling of course.

The advice to the OP on the leader is simply this: Continue to use
Orvis leaders. They are very good. Straighten them as best you can
with your hands so that you can feel the heat. Heat from a leader
straightener can damage the material. Store one spare leader in your
vest - a leader wallet is unnecessary. Simple, Mike. No bull****
about shadows, lights in glass, leader material in a glass of water.
In short, empirical evidence by those who have fished with Orvis
leaders and know of what they speak.

Google google.

Davie San/Boy/whatever