5 N Dime
 

I have been tying up flies for steelhead as of late. It was brought to
my attention that the proper ammount of trurns for the ribbing on these
flies is 5. Does anyone know the reason the number of turns should be
5?

I will be intrested to hear what the others have to say on this matter.


--
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5 N Dime
 

"theartoflee" wrote in message
...

I have been tying up flies for steelhead as of late. It was brought to
my attention that the proper ammount of trurns for the ribbing on these
flies is 5. Does anyone know the reason the number of turns should be
5?

I will be intrested to hear what the others have to say on this matter.



Because it's prime. You do want your flies to be prime don't you?

5 N Dime
 

It depends on if they are wild steelhead or hatchery steelhead. I've
found that the wild ones won't touch a fly with 4 turns, not even 4 and
a half.

When I give someone a fly recipe with ribbing, one of the common
questions they ask is; "How many turns on the ribbing?" If I say; "I
don't know 5 or 6 will do." They ask; "Well is it 5 or 6?" I now tell
everybody 5. I think it's become the standard because I catch myself
asking the same dumb question and getting the same answer.

I really doubt the fish cares.

But, be sure to start the ribbing from the top of the butt of the fly
or it's useless.

Cdog


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5 N Dime
 

Just because - the world needs some standards!


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5 N Dime
 

Jeff good answer I was guessing that it was so the commercial tiers and
illiterates could count the number of turns for the ribbing on there
free hand while the other hand handled the ribbing part.


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5 N Dime
 

I found this:

"As to flies tied on larger hooks(4-5/0), the number of turns needed to
provide the optimal torque, 3.24 x 10 to the fourth power negative
centripetal force accelerated toward the shank of the hook, is based in
McClingon’s constant. That constant dictates that one turn is needed
for a size “5” thread (based on the Buford Scale) for each 153 microns
of hook shank(or rotational axis) diameter. For example, a hook shank
that is 500 microns in diameter, would need a minimum of four wraps.
Of course, the material that is to be tied to the shank of the hook
increases the diameter of the wrap and therefore increasing the
centripetal force needed to secure it to the shank of the hook. Thus
the diameter of the material that is to be tied to the hook is to be
calculated using a factor of .5 of McClingon’s constant. It must be
added that if one increases the size of the thread usedby one Buford
unit, the number of wraps decreases by a factor of .347( and increases
at that same rate when one decreases the size of the thread by one
Buford unit)"


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5 N Dime
 

Future Fanatic;96347 Wrote:
I found this:

"As to flies tied on larger hooks(4-5/0), the number of turns needed to
provide the optimal torque, 3.24 x 10 to the fourth power negative
centripetal force accelerated toward the shank of the hook, is based in
McClingon’s constant. That constant dictates that one turn is needed
for a size “5” thread (based on the Buford Scale) for each 153 microns
of hook shank(or rotational axis) diameter. For example, a hook shank
that is 500 microns in diameter, would need a minimum of four wraps.
Of course, the material that is to be tied to the shank of the hook
increases the diameter of the wrap and therefore increasing the
centripetal force needed to secure it to the shank of the hook. Thus
the diameter of the material that is to be tied to the hook is to be
calculated using a factor of .5 of McClingon’s constant. It must be
added that if one increases the size of the thread usedby one Buford
unit, the number of wraps decreases by a factor of .347( and increases
at that same rate when one decreases the size of the thread by one
Buford unit)"

You know,

I never thought of it that way.....but it DOES make a lot of sense!

My lofty take....
Maybe because an odd number has a more organic look or feel to it. Use
four or six wraps when building a robot, but five wraps on a Spey!
~James


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5 N Dime
 

Future Fanatic wrote:
I found this:

"As to flies tied on larger hooks(4-5/0), the number of turns needed to
provide the optimal torque, 3.24 x 10 to the fourth power negative
centripetal force accelerated toward the shank of the hook, is based in
McClingon’s constant. That constant dictates that one turn is needed
for a size “5” thread (based on the Buford Scale) for each 153 microns
of hook shank(or rotational axis) diameter. For example, a hook shank
that is 500 microns in diameter, would need a minimum of four wraps.
Of course, the material that is to be tied to the shank of the hook
increases the diameter of the wrap and therefore increasing the
centripetal force needed to secure it to the shank of the hook. Thus
the diameter of the material that is to be tied to the hook is to be
calculated using a factor of .5 of McClingon’s constant. It must be
added that if one increases the size of the thread usedby one Buford
unit, the number of wraps decreases by a factor of .347( and increases
at that same rate when one decreases the size of the thread by one
Buford unit)"




Please keep your units standard. Hook shanks are referred to by gauge
(American Wire Gauge, AWG), not by diameter.

Diameters can be calculated by applying the formula:

D(AWG)=.005·92^((36-AWG)/39) inch.

For the 00, 000, 0000 etc. gauges you use -1, -2, -3, which makes more
sense mathematically than "double nought." This means that in American
wire gage every 6 gauge decrease gives a doubling of the wire diameter,
and every 3 gauge decrease doubles the wire cross sectional area.
Similar to dB in signal and power levels.

Conversion to microns is left to the reader.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

5 N Dime
 

FF,


NOBODY uses the Buford scale anymore! Your whole formula is based
on ravings of a deranged scientist with a broken slide rule.


--
leadhead
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5 N Dime
 

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? The
world may never know. :rofl:


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5 N Dime
 

leadhead a écrit :
FF,


NOBODY uses the Buford scale anymore! Your whole formula is based
on ravings of a deranged scientist with a broken slide rule.


Foghorn Leghorn="on"
Nobody, I say but nobody uses a slide rule anymore...
/Foghorn Leghorn

It's back to the drawing board guys.

BTW, thanks for the chuckle this morning. :-D

--
Hope to read you soon,

Denis
www.uqtr.ca/~lamyd

You'll have to eat the SPAM to E-mail

5 N Dime
 

leadhead;96373 Wrote:
FF,
NOBODY uses the Buford scale anymore! Your whole formula is based on
ravings of a deranged scientist with a broken slide rule.

Did I type Buford Scale???
I was supposed to type Burford Scale.
The Buford Scale has to do with wind strength.
Everyone knows that the BURFORD Scale has to do with thread diameters.
Clyde Burford was the husband of none other than the Issac Singer's
oldest daughter. He spent much of his time working with thread and
developed the "Burford Scale".
Sorry for the confusion.


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John
Transparency is good and
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5 N Dime
 

FF,


Of course, using the Burford scale brings everything together. I always
consult his charts and tables before starting any thread or rib wraps.
His works on dubbing are also fasinating, yet sadly, unfinished.


leadhead


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5 N Dime
 

Future Fanatic;96416 Wrote:
The Buford Scale has to do with wind strength.

FYI-
*Beaufort Scale* for wind and sea state.


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5 N Dime
 

AKSkim;96481 Wrote:
FYI-
*Beaufort Scale* for wind and sea state.

Did type "Buford"!?!?

Of course I meant "Beaufort Scale"...
EVERYONE knows that Beaufort was the Irishman who developed the scale
that bares his name back in the early eighteen hundreds. Of course, he
was an officer in the "British" Navy at the time...

And there is NO truth to the rumor that the scale (1-12) is based on
how many potatoes a certain strength wind can roll across the deck of a
ship in ten seconds... No truth what so ever. I think.


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5 N Dime
 

I can't believe you even have to ask the question. I thought everyone
knew it's the square root of (n) + 3, with n being the hook size.

sheesh:no:


--
RickW

*Vidi Aquam*
I saw water flowing from the right side of the temple, alleluia; and
all they to whom that water came were saved, and they shall say,
alleluia, alleluia.
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5 N Dime
 

Future Fanatic;96483 Wrote:
based on how many potatoes a certain strength wind can roll across the
deck of a ship

Last week I believe you posted a response referring to a woman as a
"Cow", now you attack a race, what should we expect from you this
coming week more of the same?

In keeping with your latest tone, should we expect to read and get
another look into your true feelings on Hispanics? African Americans?
Native Americans? some anti-semitic rhetoric from your little Neo-Nazi
handbook? Oh, how could I forget.. you know how the Irish feel about
the Pope! I just can't wait to read what you have to say about the
Pope.

As always, wondering just what you really are teaching our youth.

AK Skim


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5 N Dime
 

AKSkim;96540 Wrote:
Last week I believe you posted a response referring to a woman as a
"Cow", now you attack a race, what should we expect from you this
coming week more of the same?

In keeping with your latest tone, should we expect to read and get
another look into your true feelings on Hispanics? African Americans?
Native Americans? some anti-semitic rhetoric from your little Neo-Nazi
handbook? Oh, how could I forget.. you know how the Irish feel about
the Pope! I just can't wait to read what you have to say about the
Pope.

As always, wondering just what you really are teaching our youth.

AK Skim

I'm sorry AK. I can see now how sensitive you are about certain
subjects.
But might I point out that you yourself have done nearly the same
injustice to the Irish. If I'm correct, there are a certain segment of
those that call themselves Irish that don't seem to feel the way YOU
think that they should about the Pope. You yourself have lumped ALL
the Irish into ONE category.

See how easy it may be to offend one certain group? I'm sure you did
not mean it the way you wrote it. But yes, I did mean my comment to be
a joke.
Historically speaking potatoes were an important part of many an
Irishman's(Irishwomen's, too.) (and probably Irishwomyn's,) life back
in the time that Beaufort would have been creating his scale.

It's a bit of a stretch to suggest I'm a Neo Nazi, don't you think?
But if that's what your powers of perception tell you, so be it.
I suggest you hit "ignore this user" so you aren't offended by anything
I may write in the future.

And I just wanted to check (for future reference), are the following
comments ok to make(in regards how they may be percieved by some) about
a "people" and a socio-economic class? I'm just wondering where the
line is...

"As always, more than one scalp hanging in from of my lodge.

Chief AK Skim"

"AK Skim
Former Resident of a Federal Housing Project"

Hmmm.. can you lend me YOUR copy of that handbook you mentioned?


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5 N Dime
 

Hummm...

Nice try.

Taking a page from your book... you still didn't answer the question.

Don't bother, I know your favorite holiday is coming soon and you must
get back to sewing your Casper the Friendly Ghost costume (I noticed
that store bought ones don't have the pointed hat like yours). Besides,
you are still transparent with or without it.

Just to set the record straight, I have an official document from the
US Government signed by then President Clinton formally recognizing me
as a Chief, and yes I have lived on Federal Reservations for most of my
life.

As always, Chief AK Skim


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5 N Dime
 

AKSkim;96561 Wrote:
Hummm...

Nice try.

No, That was a near slam dunk.

AKSkim;96561 Wrote:
Taking a page from your book... you still didn't answer the question.

Which question?

AKSkim;96561 Wrote:
Just to set the record straight, I have an official document from the US
Government signed by then President Clinton formally recognizing me as a
Chief, and yes I have lived on Federal Reservations for most of my
life.

As always, Chief AK Skim

If you really wanted to set the record straight, I mean be REALLY
honest... "Chief" WHAT?....

AND then define "Federal Reservation"...

Stop trying to deflect us away from the fact that you have done, IN
THOSE POSTS, exactly what you called me out on. THAT my friend is
shameful.


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5 N Dime
 

In keeping with your latest tone, should we expect to read and get
another look into your true feelings on Hispanics? African Americans?
Native Americans? some anti-semitic rhetoric from your little Neo-Nazi
handbook? Oh, how could I forget.. you know how the Irish feel about
the Pope! I just can't wait to read what you have to say about the
Pope.

Bllleeeeeppppp!!! 10 post penalty for the first violation of
Godwin's Law. 5 more postings tacked one for said violation occurring
in a thread with less than 20 posts.

Frank Reid

5 N Dime
 

"Frank Reid" wrote in message
ps.com...
Bllleeeeeppppp!!! 10 post penalty for the first violation of
Godwin's Law. 5 more postings tacked one for said violation occurring
in a thread with less than 20 posts.

Frank Reid



thank goodness!! The voice of reason!
Tom
p.s where the hell did these nimrods come from?

5 N Dime
 

"AKSkim" wrote in message
...

Future Fanatic;96483 Wrote:
based on how many potatoes a certain strength wind can roll across the
deck of a ship

Last week I believe you posted a response referring to a woman as a
"Cow", now you attack a race, what should we expect from you this
coming week more of the same?

In keeping with your latest tone, should we expect to read and get
another look into your true feelings on Hispanics? African Americans?
Native Americans? some anti-semitic rhetoric from your little Neo-Nazi
handbook? Oh, how could I forget.. you know how the Irish feel about
the Pope! I just can't wait to read what you have to say about the
Pope.

As always, wondering just what you really are teaching our youth.

AK Skim

Shaking head... Wow, I guess I have a double whammy against me, Irish and
cherokee... and here I thought being both was great.. :-)

Rick