OT Happy Birthday...
 

..to the Marine Corps (yesterday) to include any active or retired on this
group. Apropos of nothing, I just finished a good book yesterday about the
role the F-15E Strike Eagle played in the first Iraq war. The author also
had high praise for the Brit Tornado pilots and I learned a new word from
the Brits as well. Their term for female members of the military is "bumpy
fronts." It seems they needed some US BFs to attend their parties,
apparently not bringing enough of their own BFs.

Frank Sr.
who misses the military life sometimes, it was a helluva lot of fun
for the most part.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

"Frank Church" wrote in message
96...
..to the Marine Corps (yesterday) to include any active or retired on this
group. Apropos of nothing, I just finished a good book yesterday about the
role the F-15E Strike Eagle played in the first Iraq war. The author also
had high praise for the Brit Tornado pilots and I learned a new word from
the Brits as well. Their term for female members of the military is "bumpy
fronts." It seems they needed some US BFs to attend their parties,
apparently not bringing enough of their own BFs.

Frank Sr.
who misses the military life sometimes, it was a helluva lot of fun
for the most part.

Thanks Frank, your'e the first person in the last eight years that I have
seen say something about the Marine Corps birthday. After the Veterans Day
thread above, this is welcome.

7/'91-8/'99
Sgt.
Jeremy Moe

OT Happy Birthday...
 

"J & D Moe" wrote in news:tFNZi.263$WM.146@trndny05:


Thanks Frank, your'e the first person in the last eight years that I
have seen say something about the Marine Corps birthday. After the
Veterans Day thread above, this is welcome.

7/'91-8/'99
Sgt.
Jeremy Moe

You're very welcome Jeremy, my son (LCDR USN)served with the Marines at
Camp Lejuene as the Command Chaplain several years ago, he is now finishing
up his career with the USCG in CA. He had nothing but good things to say
about the Marines.

Frank Sr.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

In article , Frank
Church wrote:

..to the Marine Corps (yesterday) to include any active or retired on this
group. Apropos of nothing, I just finished a good book yesterday about the
role the F-15E Strike Eagle played in the first Iraq war. The author also
had high praise for the Brit Tornado pilots and I learned a new word from
the Brits as well. Their term for female members of the military is "bumpy
fronts." It seems they needed some US BFs to attend their parties,
apparently not bringing enough of their own BFs.

Unfortunately the US marines are not as popular with their brit
colleagues as one might hope. Their habit of killing their allies as
happily as they kill fuzzy-headed arabs, and not 'fessing up when they
get things wrong, means that even their friends are wary of them.

For example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm

Lazarus

(who hopes that he'll refrain from putting an 'OT Happy Birthday Hamas'
or 'OT Happy Birthday IRA' on Roff whenever the time comes due)

OT Happy Birthday...
 

Lazarus Cooke wrote in
news:121120071617439853%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid:

Unfortunately the US marines are not as popular with their brit
colleagues as one might hope. Their habit of killing their allies as
happily as they kill fuzzy-headed arabs, and not 'fessing up when they
get things wrong, means that even their friends are wary of them.

For example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm

Lazarus


I'm often one of the first to criticize the cluster**** that Iraq has
become, but its hardly surprising when a journalist dies in a war zone,
accidentally or not. This is what makes war correspondents heroic. They
risk their lives to tell us what needs to be told.

This Lloyd guy knew the risks, and he assumed them. He was in the middle
of a bunch of 18 year olds in combat. I'm pretty sure that had he lived,
he'd be amongst the last to call this scenario a war crime.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

OT Happy Birthday...
 

In article , Scott
Seidman wrote:



I'm often one of the first to criticize the cluster**** that Iraq has
become, but its hardly surprising when a journalist dies in a war zone,
accidentally or not. This is what makes war correspondents heroic. They
risk their lives to tell us what needs to be told.

This Lloyd guy knew the risks, and he assumed them. He was in the middle
of a bunch of 18 year olds in combat. I'm pretty sure that had he lived,
he'd be amongst the last to call this scenario a war crime.

Hi Scott

Your post is perfectly reasonable. I was filming in Afghanistan earlier
this year, and was threatened both by Taliban supporters and by US
military. (not by any brits but that was just happenstance.) I and all
my colleagues know the risks.

The trouble with Terry Lloyd is that he was not killed accidentally. He
was killed deliberately, with no excuse, by US marines, as he was being
rushed to hospital. Not my view - the view of the coroner at his
inquest.

Secondly, the marines who did it knew that they would not suffer any
comeback, and nor will they. They know that they may murder whomever
thy like with impunity.

Of all countries, the US had, until recently, an impressive tradition
of free journalism, which has been an essential element of the American
consitution. Not any more though. Had reporting been better, the war in
Iraq would not have taken place. It's in everyone's interests that
there should be a free press in American war zones, and you won't get
that if Marines regularly murder journalists whom they don't like, and
know that they'll suffer no ill-effects.

More British troops in Iraq, by the way, have been killed by their
American colleagues than have been killed by 'insurgents'.

On British journalism, I can only quote (from memory)

You cannot cheat nor bribe nor twist,
Thank God, the British journalist.
But, given what the man will do
*unbribed*, there's no occasion to.

Lazarus

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:06:03 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article , Scott
Seidman wrote:



I'm often one of the first to criticize the cluster**** that Iraq has
become, but its hardly surprising when a journalist dies in a war zone,
accidentally or not. This is what makes war correspondents heroic. They
risk their lives to tell us what needs to be told.

This Lloyd guy knew the risks, and he assumed them. He was in the middle
of a bunch of 18 year olds in combat. I'm pretty sure that had he lived,
he'd be amongst the last to call this scenario a war crime.

Hi Scott

Your post is perfectly reasonable. I was filming in Afghanistan earlier
this year, and was threatened both by Taliban supporters and by US
military. (not by any brits but that was just happenstance.) I and all
my colleagues know the risks.

The trouble with Terry Lloyd is that he was not killed accidentally. He
was killed deliberately, with no excuse, by US marines, as he was being
rushed to hospital. Not my view - the view of the coroner at his
inquest.

And the view of his friend and cameraman, Daniel Demoustier, who was
there and survived:

" I think it was a tragic accident."

Was it? I don't know, but I'd offer the word of a "friendly witness"
carries more weight than that of a politically-motivated contract
coroner (and for those who don't know, Mr. - NOT Dr. - Webster, the
coroner, is a barrister, not a medical doctor).

He also managed to find that the evidence was clear that the US forces
"engaged" the RG forces first. Two points about that: 1) it would
hardly seem to matter who fired first in such a situation, but 2)
neither the British solders on the scene or Demoustier could say who
fired first, only that both sides were definitely firing - it was a
firefight.

Secondly, the marines who did it knew that they would not suffer any
comeback, and nor will they. They know that they may murder whomever
thy like with impunity.

That's pure bull****. Lloyd's group was traveling with an armed
Republican Guard vehicle (not by choice) and other enemy vehicles and
ran into US forces. A firefight broke out, and Lloyd's team wound up in
the middle of it. There is no way the US forces could have known Lloyd
or anyone else in particular was there, so any accusations of wanting to
"get" Lloyd or even to "get" unilateral reporters in general is
nonsense.


Of all countries, the US had, until recently, an impressive tradition
of free journalism, which has been an essential element of the American
consitution.

Yeah, it's time to hark back to more honest times when all reporters
were not only free, but encouraged to cover Roosevelt's incapacity,
Kennedy's womanizing, etc.

HTH,
R

OT Happy Birthday...
 

Lazarus Cooke wrote in
news:121120071706039029%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid:

the view of the coroner at his
inquest.


And that coroner has jurisdiction because ...

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

OT Happy Birthday...
 

Lazarus Cooke wrote in
news:121120071617439853%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid:

Unfortunately the US marines are not as popular with their brit
colleagues as one might hope. Their habit of killing their allies as
happily as they kill fuzzy-headed arabs, and not 'fessing up when they
get things wrong, means that even their friends are wary of them.

For example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm

Lazarus

(who hopes that he'll refrain from putting an 'OT Happy Birthday
Hamas' or 'OT Happy Birthday IRA' on Roff whenever the time comes due)

This post was to honor our US Marine Corps, and given some of your
leftist posts in the past I'm not surprised you would try to dishonor our
Marines. What a cheap shot! You get yourself downrange of a group of
marines and fire comes from your direction, you're gonna get plastered,
simple as that.

Frank Sr.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On Nov 12, 12:20 pm, Frank Church wrote:
Lazarus Cooke wrote innews:121120071617439853%lazaruscooke@britishlibr ary.invalid:

Unfortunately the US marines are not as popular with their brit
colleagues as one might hope. Their habit of killing their allies as
happily as they kill fuzzy-headed arabs, and not 'fessing up when they
get things wrong, means that even their friends are wary of them.

For example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm

Lazarus

(who hopes that he'll refrain from putting an 'OT Happy Birthday
Hamas' or 'OT Happy Birthday IRA' on Roff whenever the time comes due)

This post was to honor our US Marine Corps, and given some of your
leftist posts in the past I'm not surprised you would try to dishonor our
Marines. What a cheap shot! You get yourself downrange of a group of
marines and fire comes from your direction, you're gonna get plastered,
simple as that.

Frank Sr.

A friend of the family with a son in USMC sent this a while back.

USMC Rules For Gunfighting
1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your
friends who have guns.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap.
Life is expensive.
3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss, is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast
enough nor using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and
diagonal movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and
a friend with a long gun.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance,
or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading,
and running.
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more
dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
10. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
11. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an
Angel urinates in the flintlock of your musket."
12. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should
have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
13. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you
lose.
14. Have a plan.
15. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
16. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target
should be in FRONT of your gun.
17. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
18. Don't drop your guard. Never turn your back on dead looking or
wounded enemy, unless they have no head.
19. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else,
keep your hands where I can see them).
20. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
21. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
22. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you
meet.
23. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
24. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong
commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
25. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does
not start with a "4."

Navy Rules to Gunfighting
1. Adopt an aggressive offshore posture.
2. Send in the Marines.
3. Drink cold beverages, eat hot food, enjoy the ship's air
conditioning

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On Nov 11, 4:14 pm, Frank Church
wrote:
..to the Marine Corps (yesterday) to include any active or retired on this
group.

I'll drink to that! (but these days, I'll drink to most anything g)

In all sincerity, I'll relate a tale. It is easy to look at the USMC
as a collection of gung-ho jarheads with more enthusiasm than brains;
and I confess to sharing that opinion until recently. Though that may
still be a common commodity, I've had the occasion to meet a few
officers (captains, majors, colonels) in the course of a few
construction projects at Quantico. Honestly, I was damned impressed
with their professionalism and ability. These guys knew their ****.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

In article ,
wrote:


And the view of his friend and cameraman, Daniel Demoustier, who was
there and survived:

" I think it was a tragic accident."

Was it? I don't know, but I'd offer the word of a "friendly witness"
carries more weight than that of a politically-motivated contract
coroner (and for those who don't know, Mr. - NOT Dr. - Webster, the
coroner, is a barrister, not a medical doctor).


Well at least, RDean, you've done your homework, which as far as I'm
concerned is 95% of the problem. On the whole, I'm happy to disagree
with anyone who's bothered to check the facts.

On the other hand - you're not a lawyer or anything, are you?

Cos that quote was very selective.

You quoted 'I think it was a tragic accident.'

The full quote is:

I think it was a tragic accident. But why weren¹t they (the Americans)
professional enough to hit the right cars? They kept firing at our car-
I¹m angry about that now. But they must have been able to see the TV
markings. We were visible the whole time, we were only a few hundred
metres away.
The French ambassador in Kuwait told me he thinks the Americans kept
shooting at me because they wanted to eliminate the evidence. That
could mean they have deliberately buried the bodies of the others if
they were hit too. .

Lazarus

OT Happy Birthday...
 

In article , Frank
Church wrote:

This post was to honor our US Marine Corps,


Well why did you pick an international fly-fishing group to do so?

US marines aren't very popular in much of the world (although I like
many of them personally very much. And my daughter's English ex, whom
I'm very fond of, has been serving in Iraq and afghanistan for the past
two years, and I wish him well. )

You must have noticed that Afghan, Palestinian & Iranian roffians have
all had the decency to refrain from using this ng to praise their own
paramilitaries. Couldn't you have done the same?

and given some of your
leftist posts in the past

Eh? name one. I'm not leftist. I'm centrist.

Maybe you're rightist?

Lazarus

OT Happy Birthday...
 

In article . com,
rb608 wrote:

I've had the occasion to meet a few
officers (captains, majors, colonels) in the course of a few
construction projects at Quantico. Honestly, I was damned impressed
with their professionalism and ability. These guys knew their ****.

I've met loads of marines, (not at Quantico, but in places like Iraq &
Afghanistan) & found many of them charming, intelligent and sincere.

Lazarus

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On 13 Nov, 01:41, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

I've met loads of marines, (not at Quantico, but in places like Iraq &
Afghanistan) & found many of them charming, intelligent and sincere.

Lazarus

Most likely none of them were Roffians..............

TL
MC

OT Happy Birthday...
 

Lazarus Cooke wrote:
In article . com,
rb608 wrote:


I've had the occasion to meet a few
officers (captains, majors, colonels) in the course of a few
construction projects at Quantico. Honestly, I was damned impressed
with their professionalism and ability. These guys knew their ****.


I've met loads of marines, (not at Quantico, but in places like Iraq &
Afghanistan) & found many of them charming, intelligent and sincere.

Lazarus

That's a quasi-racist stereotype. :-)

It's like "Some of my best friends are Marines."

Among the "loads" of Marines you've met, Lazarus, how many were
charming, intelligent, and sincere? Percentage-wise? Just a guess.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On 13 Nov, 02:41, rw wrote:

Among the "loads" of Marines you've met, Lazarus, how many were
charming, intelligent, and sincere? Percentage-wise? Just a guess.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

My cousin was a marine, 42 Commando Royal Marines. I met a lot of his
comrades. They were nice enough unless you tried to mess them about,
which some fool always did.

TL
MC

OT Happy Birthday...
 

In article , rw
wrote:



That's a quasi-racist stereotype. :-)

It's like "Some of my best friends are Marines."

Among the "loads" of Marines you've met, Lazarus, how many were
charming, intelligent, and sincere? Percentage-wise? Just a guess.

Dammit, Royal

(or should that be 'Mr Wulff'?')

none of the ones I spoke to actually shot at me.

For which I'm very grateful.

Lazarus

OT Happy Birthday...
 

I've met loads of marines, (not at Quantico, but in places like Iraq &
Afghanistan) & found many of them charming, intelligent and sincere.

There were four officers that I met in my Air Force career that I told
"any time, any place," i.e. I would gladly serve under them anywhere.
One became the Deputy Chief of Staff of the Air Force (Gen McInerny).
Another was a Marine, more specifically, a female full bird.
Frank Reid

OT Happy Birthday...
 

"Mike" wrote in message
ps.com...
On 13 Nov, 01:41, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

I've met loads of marines, (not at Quantico, but in places like Iraq &
Afghanistan) & found many of them charming, intelligent and sincere.

Lazarus

Most likely none of them were Roffians..............

TL
MC



**** YOU MIKE!

OT Happy Birthday...
 

Frank Reid wrote:

There were four officers that I met in my Air Force career that I told
"any time, any place," i.e. I would gladly serve under them anywhere.

I met four backup singers who sang with Tina Turner and I told
them the exact same thing.

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On 13 Nov, 04:30, "J & D Moe" wrote:


Most likely none of them were Roffians..............

TL
MC

**** YOU MIKE!

Tsk tsk.............according to Mr.Fortenberry you are too thin
skinned to be using electronic forums.

MC

OT Happy Birthday...
 

Lazarus Cooke wrote in
news:131120070037251381%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid:

In article , Frank
Church wrote:

This post was to honor our US Marine Corps,


Well why did you pick an international fly-fishing group to do so?

US marines aren't very popular in much of the world (although I like
many of them personally very much. And my daughter's English ex, whom
I'm very fond of, has been serving in Iraq and afghanistan for the past
two years, and I wish him well. )

You must have noticed that Afghan, Palestinian & Iranian roffians have
all had the decency to refrain from using this ng to praise their own
paramilitaries. Couldn't you have done the same?

and given some of your
leftist posts in the past

Eh? name one. I'm not leftist. I'm centrist.

Maybe you're rightist?

Lazarus

Well Lazarus old boy, perhaps you didn't notice the OT in the subject line?
After the off topic crap that has been posted in this slagheap for way too
long now, I at least led off with OT (actually lately, OT should be
required when someone posts about flyfishing) Personally, I could give a
crap about what you or anyone else thinks of our Marines or other armed
forces for that matter.
I can understand why any Afghan, Palestinian & Iranian roffians (if there
are any) haven't posted to praise their "paramilitaries." smirk

Frank Sr.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:22:57 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:


And the view of his friend and cameraman, Daniel Demoustier, who was
there and survived:

" I think it was a tragic accident."

Was it? I don't know, but I'd offer the word of a "friendly witness"
carries more weight than that of a politically-motivated contract
coroner (and for those who don't know, Mr. - NOT Dr. - Webster, the
coroner, is a barrister, not a medical doctor).


Well at least, RDean, you've done your homework, which as far as I'm
concerned is 95% of the problem. On the whole, I'm happy to disagree
with anyone who's bothered to check the facts.

On the other hand - you're not a lawyer or anything, are you?

Cos that quote was very selective.

I wasn't trying to be "selective" and I think that is evidenced by my
also not including what is, if we are going to get in the minutiae of
the event, perhaps the most telling part: the u-turn information.

You quoted 'I think it was a tragic accident.'

The full quote is:

I think it was a tragic accident. But why weren¹t they (the Americans)
professional enough to hit the right cars? They kept firing at our car-
I¹m angry about that now. But they must have been able to see the TV
markings. We were visible the whole time, we were only a few hundred
metres away.
The French ambassador in Kuwait told me he thinks the Americans kept
shooting at me because they wanted to eliminate the evidence. That
could mean they have deliberately buried the bodies of the others if
they were hit too. .

The _full_ quote, huh? Er, no...

The _FULL_ quote is:

"I think it was a tragic accident. But why weren't they (the Americans)
professional enough to hit the right cars? They kept firing at our car-
I'm angry about that now. But they must have been able to see the TV
markings. We were visible the whole time, we were only a few hundred
metres away.
The French ambassador in Kuwait told me he thinks the Americans kept
shooting at me because they wanted to eliminate the evidence. That
could mean they have deliberately buried the bodies of the others if
they were hit too.
_Did we make any mistakes? The only thing I keep thinking about is that
we should not have made the U-turn. Maybe that was a mistake, but at the
time it seemed the sensible thing to do._" (Emp. add.)

IOW, these guys turned around with armed vehicles and not only appeared
to be, but actually were traveling right with enemy combatants openly
displaying and firing weapons. Moreover, they were doing it after
choosing to be unilateral rather than embedded, so no field troops, US,
UK, or otherwise knew anything about them being in the sector. Even if
the US forces could see the "TV markings," and he didn't say they
_could_, only that he thought "they must have been able to" do so. I'd
offer that under the circumstances, they certainly didn't appear to
legit journalists, especially considering that Saddam/Baathist forces
were even using Red Cross/Crescent markings in attempts to get to
coalition forces.

Simply put, his assessment that it was "a tragic accident" seems right
on the money. His speculation on what the US forces may or may not have
seen and what they should have done if they had, in fact, seen certain
things, while certainly worthy of consideration, doesn't offer a
complete view of the overall situation.

TC,
R



Lazarus

OT Happy Birthday...
 

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 13 Nov, 04:30, "J & D Moe" wrote:


Most likely none of them were Roffians..............

TL
MC

**** YOU MIKE!

Tsk tsk.............according to Mr.Fortenberry you are too thin
skinned to be using electronic forums.

MC

Nah.. he is just tired of your stupid ****.. So Go **** your hand Mike..

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:52:05 -0800, Mike
wrote:

On 13 Nov, 02:41, rw wrote:

Among the "loads" of Marines you've met, Lazarus, how many were
charming, intelligent, and sincere? Percentage-wise? Just a guess.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

My cousin was a marine, 42 Commando Royal Marines. I met a lot of his
comrades. They were nice enough unless you tried to mess them about,
which some fool always did.

Ah...so your current mental status is the result of a royal commandoing
or three...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, you're calling luef-nenent somesuch,
Dickie boy

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:52:45 GMT, Frank Church
wrote:

Lazarus Cooke wrote in
news:131120070037251381%lazaruscooke@britishlibra ry.invalid:

In article , Frank
Church wrote:

This post was to honor our US Marine Corps,


Well why did you pick an international fly-fishing group to do so?

US marines aren't very popular in much of the world (although I like
many of them personally very much. And my daughter's English ex, whom
I'm very fond of, has been serving in Iraq and afghanistan for the past
two years, and I wish him well. )

You must have noticed that Afghan, Palestinian & Iranian roffians have
all had the decency to refrain from using this ng to praise their own
paramilitaries. Couldn't you have done the same?

and given some of your
leftist posts in the past

Eh? name one. I'm not leftist. I'm centrist.

Maybe you're rightist?

Lazarus

Well Lazarus old boy, perhaps you didn't notice the OT in the subject line?
After the off topic crap that has been posted in this slagheap for way too
long now, I at least led off with OT (actually lately, OT should be
required when someone posts about flyfishing) Personally, I could give a
crap about what you or anyone else thinks of our Marines or other armed
forces for that matter.
I can understand why any Afghan, Palestinian & Iranian roffians (if there
are any) haven't posted to praise their "paramilitaries." smirk

Reminds me of a joke...

A famous arms dealer had some Hakims for sale...never fired, only
dropped in sand once...

TC,
R

Frank Sr.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:35:57 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Frank Reid wrote:

There were four officers that I met in my Air Force career that I told
"any time, any place," i.e. I would gladly serve under them anywhere.

I met four backup singers who sang with Tina Turner and I told
them the exact same thing.

Yeah, well, be careful...I told Angelina that, too, and every time "big
Brad" is, um, out with Matt Damon, she won't leave me alone...

TC,
R

OT Happy Birthday...
 

Lazarus Cooke wrote:
In article , rw
wrote:



That's a quasi-racist stereotype. :-)

It's like "Some of my best friends are Marines."

Among the "loads" of Marines you've met, Lazarus, how many were
charming, intelligent, and sincere? Percentage-wise? Just a guess.


Dammit, Royal

(or should that be 'Mr Wulff'?')

none of the ones I spoke to actually shot at me.

For which I'm very grateful.

Lazarus

The "sincere" I'll buy. The "charming and intelligent" is a leap.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On 12-Nov-2007, Frank Church wrote:


For example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm

Lazarus

(who hopes that he'll refrain from putting an 'OT Happy Birthday
Hamas' or 'OT Happy Birthday IRA' on Roff whenever the time comes due)

This post was to honor our US Marine Corps, and given some of your
leftist posts in the past I'm not surprised you would try to dishonor our
Marines. What a cheap shot! You get yourself downrange of a group
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++

OK lets stir things up a bit.
Does anyone in this thread or rthe Veteran's Day thread respect and like
Dick Cheney?
Is he an honorable and caring man for the average American and human?
Where will he be in history?

Will he be eaten by trout?

I am doing a survey
Thanks in advance
Fred

OT Happy Birthday...
 

wrote in message
Does anyone in this thread or rthe Veteran's Day thread respect and like
Dick Cheney?

No, but at least he showed up to lay the wreath on the Tomb of the Unknown
Soldier. Shrub was too f*cking busy. It's hard work bein' on vacation on
your ranch & all. Plus, that dead soldier doesn't work so good for a photo
op. Honor our trrops, my ass. All hat, no cattle.

Joe F.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

"Lazarus Cooke" wrote in message
news:131120070022579289%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid...

On the whole, I'm happy to disagree
with anyone who's bothered to check the facts.

And what better motto and raison d'etre could you or ROFF* possibly ask for?

Wolfgang
*or usenet, for that matter.

OT Happy Birthday...
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:22:57 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:


And the view of his friend and cameraman, Daniel Demoustier, who was
there and survived:

" I think it was a tragic accident."

Was it? I don't know, but I'd offer the word of a "friendly witness"
carries more weight than that of a politically-motivated contract
coroner (and for those who don't know, Mr. - NOT Dr. - Webster, the
coroner, is a barrister, not a medical doctor).


Well at least, RDean, you've done your homework, which as far as I'm
concerned is 95% of the problem. On the whole, I'm happy to disagree
with anyone who's bothered to check the facts.

On the other hand - you're not a lawyer or anything, are you?

Cos that quote was very selective.

I wasn't trying to be "selective" and I think that is evidenced by my
also not including what is, if we are going to get in the minutiae of
the event, perhaps the most telling part: the u-turn information.

You quoted 'I think it was a tragic accident.'

The full quote is:

I think it was a tragic accident. But why weren¹t they (the Americans)
professional enough to hit the right cars? They kept firing at our car-
I¹m angry about that now. But they must have been able to see the TV
markings. We were visible the whole time, we were only a few hundred
metres away.
The French ambassador in Kuwait told me he thinks the Americans kept
shooting at me because they wanted to eliminate the evidence. That
could mean they have deliberately buried the bodies of the others if
they were hit too. .

The _full_ quote, huh? Er, no...

The _FULL_ quote is:

"I think it was a tragic accident. But why weren't they (the Americans)
professional enough to hit the right cars? They kept firing at our car-
I'm angry about that now. But they must have been able to see the TV
markings. We were visible the whole time, we were only a few hundred
metres away.
The French ambassador in Kuwait told me he thinks the Americans kept
shooting at me because they wanted to eliminate the evidence. That
could mean they have deliberately buried the bodies of the others if
they were hit too.
_Did we make any mistakes? The only thing I keep thinking about is that
we should not have made the U-turn. Maybe that was a mistake, but at the
time it seemed the sensible thing to do._" (Emp. add.)

IOW, these guys turned around with armed vehicles and not only appeared
to be, but actually were traveling right with enemy combatants openly
displaying and firing weapons. Moreover, they were doing it after
choosing to be unilateral rather than embedded, so no field troops, US,
UK, or otherwise knew anything about them being in the sector. Even if
the US forces could see the "TV markings," and he didn't say they
_could_, only that he thought "they must have been able to" do so. I'd
offer that under the circumstances, they certainly didn't appear to
legit journalists, especially considering that Saddam/Baathist forces
were even using Red Cross/Crescent markings in attempts to get to
coalition forces.

Simply put, his assessment that it was "a tragic accident" seems right
on the money. His speculation on what the US forces may or may not have
seen and what they should have done if they had, in fact, seen certain
things, while certainly worthy of consideration, doesn't offer a
complete view of the overall situation.

I'm sure I speak for everyone in this group (and, oh that it were the rest
of the world as well!) in reaffirming that we have come to rely so heavily
on you for the complete view of EVERY overall situation, that we can hardly
remember a time when we muddled through on our own.......or how.

Moron.

Wolfgang

OT Happy Birthday...
 

There were four officers that I met in my Air Force career that I told
"any time, any place," i.e. I would gladly serve under them anywhere.

I met four backup singers who sang with Tina Turner and I told
them the exact same thing.

Funny, I see you more as a caddy for Palmer. He always had that 7
iron in reserve. :-)
Frank Reid

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:26:27 -0600, "Wolfgang" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:22:57 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:


And the view of his friend and cameraman, Daniel Demoustier, who was
there and survived:

" I think it was a tragic accident."

Was it? I don't know, but I'd offer the word of a "friendly witness"
carries more weight than that of a politically-motivated contract
coroner (and for those who don't know, Mr. - NOT Dr. - Webster, the
coroner, is a barrister, not a medical doctor).


Well at least, RDean, you've done your homework, which as far as I'm
concerned is 95% of the problem. On the whole, I'm happy to disagree
with anyone who's bothered to check the facts.

On the other hand - you're not a lawyer or anything, are you?

Cos that quote was very selective.

I wasn't trying to be "selective" and I think that is evidenced by my
also not including what is, if we are going to get in the minutiae of
the event, perhaps the most telling part: the u-turn information.

You quoted 'I think it was a tragic accident.'

The full quote is:

I think it was a tragic accident. But why weren¹t they (the Americans)
professional enough to hit the right cars? They kept firing at our car-
I¹m angry about that now. But they must have been able to see the TV
markings. We were visible the whole time, we were only a few hundred
metres away.
The French ambassador in Kuwait told me he thinks the Americans kept
shooting at me because they wanted to eliminate the evidence. That
could mean they have deliberately buried the bodies of the others if
they were hit too. .

The _full_ quote, huh? Er, no...

The _FULL_ quote is:

"I think it was a tragic accident. But why weren't they (the Americans)
professional enough to hit the right cars? They kept firing at our car-
I'm angry about that now. But they must have been able to see the TV
markings. We were visible the whole time, we were only a few hundred
metres away.
The French ambassador in Kuwait told me he thinks the Americans kept
shooting at me because they wanted to eliminate the evidence. That
could mean they have deliberately buried the bodies of the others if
they were hit too.
_Did we make any mistakes? The only thing I keep thinking about is that
we should not have made the U-turn. Maybe that was a mistake, but at the
time it seemed the sensible thing to do._" (Emp. add.)

IOW, these guys turned around with armed vehicles and not only appeared
to be, but actually were traveling right with enemy combatants openly
displaying and firing weapons. Moreover, they were doing it after
choosing to be unilateral rather than embedded, so no field troops, US,
UK, or otherwise knew anything about them being in the sector. Even if
the US forces could see the "TV markings," and he didn't say they
_could_, only that he thought "they must have been able to" do so. I'd
offer that under the circumstances, they certainly didn't appear to
legit journalists, especially considering that Saddam/Baathist forces
were even using Red Cross/Crescent markings in attempts to get to
coalition forces.

Simply put, his assessment that it was "a tragic accident" seems right
on the money. His speculation on what the US forces may or may not have
seen and what they should have done if they had, in fact, seen certain
things, while certainly worthy of consideration, doesn't offer a
complete view of the overall situation.

I'm sure I speak for everyone in this group (and, oh that it were the rest
of the world as well!) in reaffirming that we have come to rely so heavily
on you for the complete view of EVERY overall situation, that we can hardly
remember a time when we muddled through on our own.......or how.

Moron.

And here's the remaining 5%...Shih Tzus on an estrogen overload...well,
be careful, lil' pup, or you'll get a broomstick up your ass and be used
as a floor duster...

SNICKER
R

Wolfgang

OT Happy Birthday...
 

wrote in message
...


SNICKER

Uh huh.

Wolfgang

OT Happy Birthday...
 

"Rick" lanr-at-centurytel.net wrote in message
et...

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 13 Nov, 04:30, "J & D Moe" wrote:


Most likely none of them were Roffians..............

TL
MC

**** YOU MIKE!

Tsk tsk.............according to Mr.Fortenberry you are too thin
skinned to be using electronic forums.

MC

Nah.. he is just tired of your stupid ****.. So Go **** your hand Mike..


If my worn out memory serves correctly (i'm sure someone here will know)
this is the first time I have responded to one of Mike C's bull**** posts.
Mike, I have never had a problem w/ Ken, I have silenty disagreed with a few
of his (and everyone else's) posts, but everyone disagrees with everyone
else at some point in time. I have now added Mike to my blocked senders
list, he has the distinct dishonor of being the first and only person I have
ever blocked. I got sick of having to wade through threads that contained
nothing but Mike responding to his own posts again and again and again....or
simply starting **** with someone else because they didn't agree with his
opinion. Mike is not the omni or the almighty, we all know it, but his GOD
complex will never allow him to see the real truth and error of his ways.
**** it and **** him, he is blocked.

Jeremy Moe

OT Happy Birthday...
 

"J & D Moe" wrote in message
news:J%r_i.13902$h61.3915@trndny02...

"Rick" lanr-at-centurytel.net wrote in message
et...

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 13 Nov, 04:30, "J & D Moe" wrote:


Most likely none of them were Roffians..............

TL
MC

**** YOU MIKE!

Tsk tsk.............according to Mr.Fortenberry you are too thin
skinned to be using electronic forums.

MC

Nah.. he is just tired of your stupid ****.. So Go **** your hand Mike..


If my worn out memory serves correctly (i'm sure someone here will know)
this is the first time I have responded to one of Mike C's bull**** posts.
Mike, I have never had a problem w/ Ken, I have silenty disagreed with a
few of his (and everyone else's) posts, but everyone disagrees with
everyone else at some point in time. I have now added Mike to my blocked
senders list, he has the distinct dishonor of being the first and only
person I have ever blocked. I got sick of having to wade through threads
that contained nothing but Mike responding to his own posts again and
again and again....or simply starting **** with someone else because they
didn't agree with his opinion. Mike is not the omni or the almighty, we
all know it, but his GOD complex will never allow him to see the real
truth and error of his ways. **** it and **** him, he is blocked.

Jeremy Moe

Funny, I did just the same thing with him too :-)

Rick

OT Happy Birthday...
 

On 14 Nov, 02:53, "Rick" lanr-at-centurytel.net wrote:

Don´t suppose you will be visiting my website either then?

That sure will blow a big hole in my webstats for this week! :)

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7246/web1qj3.jpg

MC

OT Happy Birthday...
 

Jeremy


On 13-Nov-2007, "J & D Moe" wrote:

If my worn out memory serves correctly (i'm sure someone here will know)
this is the first time I have responded to one of Mike C's bull**** posts.

Mike, I have never had a problem w/ Ken, I have silenty disagreed with a
few
of his (and everyone else's) posts, but everyone disagrees with everyone
else at some point in time. I have now added Mike to my blocked senders
list, he has the distinc

Jeremy

Mike
The thing is he does make some very informative posts
Pls see my e-mails w him where I asked him to post his sensible stuff stuff
- OT
He is a jerk so I plonked him but I am able to read his posts in other more
conscious people's posts like Tim's posts
Mike's drivel and drool no longer exists w out him ansd a couple of others
that have luckily passed to the ciber beyond

What a nice friendly informative newsgroup ROFF is aaahhh..

Fred