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OT Muir journal collection digitized
For those of you who enjoy such things:
The library of the University of the Pacific has some fantastic digitized items from their special collections. In particular, I'd like to point out their large collection of John Muir's journals and sketches and photographs of Muir. Having looked through a small portion of what they have made available, there is some fascinating stuff. I looked through his notes from his stay in the Toulomne meadows area of Yosemite, page after page of his notes and sketches. In addition, they have a collection of Dave Brubeck items (oral histories and photographs) and a very interesting collection of primary materials relating to the WWII era Japanese-American internment camps. So if you are so inclined and have some time to spare, here is the link. http://library.pacific.edu/ha/digital/index.asp Cheers, Bill |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
wrote in message ... For those of you who enjoy such things: The library of the University of the Pacific has some fantastic digitized items from their special collections. In particular, I'd like to point out their large collection of John Muir's journals and sketches and photographs of Muir. Having looked through a small portion of what they have made available, there is some fascinating stuff. I looked through his notes from his stay in the Toulomne meadows area of Yosemite, page after page of his notes and sketches. In addition, they have a collection of Dave Brubeck items (oral histories and photographs) and a very interesting collection of primary materials relating to the WWII era Japanese-American internment camps. So if you are so inclined and have some time to spare, here is the link. http://library.pacific.edu/ha/digital/index.asp Cheers, Bill Excellent, good stuff! I was just looking over the Japanese-American interment camp collections. Interesting letters and stories. My Dad was put in Manzanar (CA) and my Mom was located to the Heart Mountain (WY) relocation center during the war. They were teenagers at the time so it was a lot of fun to them, but my grandparents too it pretty hard. Big fan of Brubeck, I'll have to look over his section when I have more time. Also spent a lot of time in Yosemite and the Muir trails, sounds like an interesting read of his journals. -tom |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
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OT Muir journal collection digitized
wrote in message ... For those of you who enjoy such things: The library of the University of the Pacific has some fantastic digitized items from their special collections. In particular, I'd like to point out their large collection of John Muir's journals and sketches and photographs of Muir. Having looked through a small portion of what they have made available, there is some fascinating stuff. I looked through his notes from his stay in the Toulomne meadows area of Yosemite, page after page of his notes and sketches. In addition, they have a collection of Dave Brubeck items (oral histories and photographs) and a very interesting collection of primary materials relating to the WWII era Japanese-American internment camps. So if you are so inclined and have some time to spare, here is the link. http://library.pacific.edu/ha/digital/index.asp Cool stuff, Bill. Thanks. Wolfgang |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
wrote So if you are so inclined and have some time to spare, here is the link. http://library.pacific.edu/ha/digital/index.asp Cheers, Bill UOP also has my kid as a student ... I consider THAT to be their high point G |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Tom Nakashima typed:
wrote in message ... For those of you who enjoy such things: The library of the University of the Pacific has some fantastic digitized items from their special collections. In particular, I'd like to point out their large collection of John Muir's journals and sketches and photographs of Muir. Having looked through a small portion of what they have made available, there is some fascinating stuff. I looked through his notes from his stay in the Toulomne meadows area of Yosemite, page after page of his notes and sketches. In addition, they have a collection of Dave Brubeck items (oral histories and photographs) and a very interesting collection of primary materials relating to the WWII era Japanese-American internment camps. So if you are so inclined and have some time to spare, here is the link. http://library.pacific.edu/ha/digital/index.asp Cool, Bill - thanks. Excellent, good stuff! I was just looking over the Japanese-American interment camp collections. Interesting letters and stories. My Dad was put in Manzanar (CA) and my Mom was located to the Heart Mountain (WY) relocation center during the war. They were teenagers at the time so it was a lot of fun to them, but my grandparents too it pretty hard. I think Bill has seen this before, but I never made it public. My wife's great uncle (Durham White Stevens) was an ambassador to Japan during the Russo-Japanese War and ended up with some pretty incredible artifacts, including these propaganda posters. Unfortunately, he was also later made ambassador to Korea during the time that Japan was attempting to annex Korea, and was assasinated in San Francisco by some Korean nationists who felt he was still loyal to the Japanese. http://css.sbcma.com/timj/Russo-Japanese-Posters/ .. . . and, no, I have no idea about what the messages state on the posters. I also have no idea what any of this has to do with Bill or Tom's posts, but this is where the train of thought took me. :) -- TL, Tim ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
"Tim J." wrote in message ... I think Bill has seen this before, but I never made it public. My wife's great uncle (Durham White Stevens) was an ambassador to Japan during the Russo-Japanese War and ended up with some pretty incredible artifacts, including these propaganda posters. Unfortunately, he was also later made ambassador to Korea during the time that Japan was attempting to annex Korea, and was assasinated in San Francisco by some Korean nationists who felt he was still loyal to the Japanese. http://css.sbcma.com/timj/Russo-Japanese-Posters/ . . . and, no, I have no idea about what the messages state on the posters. I also have no idea what any of this has to do with Bill or Tom's posts, but this is where the train of thought took me. :) Tim Quite an interesting story about the assassination of Durham White Stevens; http://www.koreanamericanheritage.com/kna.htm -tom |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Tom Nakashima typed:
"Tim J." wrote in message ... I think Bill has seen this before, but I never made it public. My wife's great uncle (Durham White Stevens) was an ambassador to Japan during the Russo-Japanese War and ended up with some pretty incredible artifacts, including these propaganda posters. Unfortunately, he was also later made ambassador to Korea during the time that Japan was attempting to annex Korea, and was assasinated in San Francisco by some Korean nationists who felt he was still loyal to the Japanese. http://css.sbcma.com/timj/Russo-Japanese-Posters/ . . . and, no, I have no idea about what the messages state on the posters. I also have no idea what any of this has to do with Bill or Tom's posts, but this is where the train of thought took me. :) Tim Quite an interesting story about the assassination of Durham White Stevens; http://www.koreanamericanheritage.com/kna.htm Yeah, I've read that version, which, of course, could be just slightly slanted to the Korean POV. That said, it's about the only history on the man I could find online. I guess I'll have to break down and go to ugh! *the library*. Oh, well. That'll give me a good reason to visit Boston on one of these cold winter days. I mean, how expensive could it be to park in Boston, anyway . . . ;-) -- TL, Tim ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
"Tim J." wrote in message ... I guess I'll have to break down and go to ugh! *the library*. Uh oh. Wolfgang well, so much for the warm and fuzzy mood that has hovered over this place for so long. |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
"Tim J." wrote in message ... .. I guess I'll have to break down and go to ugh! *the library*. Oh, well. That'll give me a good reason to visit Boston on one of these cold winter days. I mean, how expensive could it be to park in Boston, anyway . . . ;-) Tim Wear your hoddie and you could probably get library valet. -tom |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Wolfgang typed:
"Tim J." wrote in message ... I guess I'll have to break down and go to ugh! *the library*. Uh oh. Wolfgang well, so much for the warm and fuzzy mood that has hovered over this place for so long. Actually, (and I really hate to say this) the main Boston Public Library is awesome. If you visit Boston, it's one of the "must see" stops, IMO. -- TL, Tim ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Quite an interesting story about the assassination of Durham White
Stevens;http://www.koreanamericanheritage.com/kna.htm Yeah, I've read that version, which, of course, could be just slightly slanted to the Korean POV. That said, it's about the only history on the man I could find online. I guess I'll have to break down and go to ugh! *the library*. Oh, well. That'll give me a good reason to visit Boston on one of these cold winter days. I mean, how expensive could it be to park in Boston, anyway . . . ;-) Go to Google Scholar and type in "Durham White Stevens" (remember the quotation marks). There's about twelve more references to him there. Probably would find more with some differing search strings. Frank Reid |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Wolfgang typed: "Tim J." wrote in message ... I guess I'll have to break down and go to ugh! *the library*. Uh oh. Wolfgang well, so much for the warm and fuzzy mood that has hovered over this place for so long. Actually, (and I really hate to say this) the main Boston Public Library is awesome. If you visit Boston, it's one of the "must see" stops, IMO. Smooth.....very smooth recovery. :) Let's just hope it was in time to forestall the launch of M-LIST.* If I ever get there, I'll be sure to stop in. Wolfgang *multiple librarian impelled sharp things. :( |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Wolfgang typed:
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Wolfgang typed: "Tim J." wrote in message ... I guess I'll have to break down and go to ugh! *the library*. Uh oh. Wolfgang well, so much for the warm and fuzzy mood that has hovered over this place for so long. Actually, (and I really hate to say this) the main Boston Public Library is awesome. If you visit Boston, it's one of the "must see" stops, IMO. Smooth.....very smooth recovery. Well, okay - if you say so. However, my keyboard is soaking wet from the sweat dripping from my brow. Seriously, that's one of the nicest libraries I've ever seen (all two of 'em.) The reading room is spectacular. Now, if I could just learn to read. Oh, well. They have nice pitures in some of them books. %-) -- TL, Tim ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Frank Reid typed:
Quite an interesting story about the assassination of Durham White Stevens;http://www.koreanamericanheritage.com/kna.htm Yeah, I've read that version, which, of course, could be just slightly slanted to the Korean POV. That said, it's about the only history on the man I could find online. I guess I'll have to break down and go to ugh! *the library*. Oh, well. That'll give me a good reason to visit Boston on one of these cold winter days. I mean, how expensive could it be to park in Boston, anyway . . . ;-) Go to Google Scholar and type in "Durham White Stevens" (remember the quotation marks). There's about twelve more references to him there. Probably would find more with some differing search strings. Frank Reid WooooHOOOO! We don't need no steenkin libraries! -- TL, Tim ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Yeah, I've read that version, which, of course, could be just
slightly slanted to the Korean POV. That said, it's about the only history on the man I could find online. I guess I'll have to break down and go to ugh! *the library*. Oh, well. That'll give me a good reason to visit Boston on one of these cold winter days. I mean, how expensive could it be to park in Boston, anyway . . . ;-) Go to Google Scholar and type in "Durham White Stevens" (remember the quotation marks). There's about twelve more references to him there. Probably would find more with some differing search strings. Frank Reid WooooHOOOO! We don't need no steenkin libraries! Got my masters degree without setting foot in the library (well, did have to use their copy machine). Frank Reid |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
On Nov 30, 5:01 pm, "Tim J."
wrote: Frank Reid typed: Go to Google Scholar and type in "Durham White Stevens" (remember the quotation marks). There's about twelve more references to him there. Probably would find more with some differing search strings. Frank Reid WooooHOOOO! We don't need no steenkin libraries! Google Scholar (and ...Books, do the same search there, Tim) are sweet finding aids. But note that most of the links to those items you find on Scholar lead to licensed content (JSTOR, copyrighted books). Want to read 'em? Head for the library! Same with Google Books, you'll get tantalizing tidbits ("snippets" I believe is the term they use) of many books that have copyright but for the whole shebang, we've already bought the book for you, just come on in. Google Books has a link that says "find it in a library" to help you figure out which of my brethren will loan it to you. We've already paid for this stuff for you, all you have to do is ask and we'll get it to you! I know you know most of this but I just couldn't help but rise to the bait. As to Frank not stepping foot inside the library while studying for his masters, well, there's a story behind that. He was banned. We couldn't afford the insurance. :-) Bill |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
On Nov 30, 12:37 pm, "Larry L" wrote:
wrote So if you are so inclined and have some time to spare, here is the link. http://library.pacific.edu/ha/digital/index.asp Cheers, Bill UOP also has my kid as a student ... I consider THAT to be their high point G Lucky kid! UOP appears to have an excellent library. At our place, we get far too many students who make the odd boast of never having set foot in the library for four years. I hope your kid takes advantage of the riches at the UOP libraries! Those special collections librarians would probably love it if he/she came to see them and asked to see the Muir journals! Bill |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online? Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard, they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or listen to it on your computer for a two week period. There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited. Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability of scientific journals. Willi |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Willi wrote:
When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to patrons online? Google is trying to do this, not just for one library but for *everything*: http://books.google.com/googlebooks/library.html What's causing them problems is copyright. Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard, they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or listen to it on your computer for a two week period. There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited. Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability of scientific journals. A lot of scientific journals are online, but you have to pay. For example, look at http://prl.aps.org/. Scientists were among the first to take advantage of the Web by making preprints available, and these are typically free. For example, http://arxiv.org/. The main reason they do this is that it takes so long to get a paper published in journal form. Printed scientific journals are nearly obsolete -- very expensive and out-of-date. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
rw wrote:
Willi wrote: When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to patrons online? Google is trying to do this, not just for one library but for *everything*: http://books.google.com/googlebooks/library.html What's causing them problems is copyright. I don't see how this is different from borrowing books from the library if they are "loaned" online with copy protection and time limits. Willi |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Willi wrote:
rw wrote: Willi wrote: When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to patrons online? Google is trying to do this, not just for one library but for *everything*: http://books.google.com/googlebooks/library.html What's causing them problems is copyright. I don't see how this is different from borrowing books from the library if they are "loaned" online with copy protection and time limits. Willi I don't think publishers particularly like lending libraries, nor do they like used book sales. They want a way to monetize their content. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
nice......
On Nov 30, 10:06 am, "Wolfgang" wrote: wrote in message ... For those of you who enjoy such things: The library of the University of the Pacific has some fantastic digitized items from their special collections. In particular, I'd like to point out their large collection of John Muir's journals and sketches and photographs of Muir. Having looked through a small portion of what they have made available, there is some fascinating stuff. I looked through his notes from his stay in the Toulomne meadows area of Yosemite, page after page of his notes and sketches. In addition, they have a collection of Dave Brubeck items (oral histories and photographs) and a very interesting collection of primary materials relating to the WWII era Japanese-American internment camps. So if you are so inclined and have some time to spare, here is the link. http://library.pacific.edu/ha/digital/index.asp Cool stuff, Bill. Thanks. Wolfgang- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
"Tim J." wrote in message ... I think Bill has seen this before, but I never made it public. My wife's great uncle (Durham White Stevens) was an ambassador to Japan during the Russo-Japanese War and ended up with some pretty incredible artifacts, including these propaganda posters. Unfortunately, he was also later made ambassador to Korea during the time that Japan was attempting to annex Korea, and was assasinated in San Francisco by some Korean nationists who felt he was still loyal to the Japanese. http://css.sbcma.com/timj/Russo-Japanese-Posters/ . . . and, no, I have no idea about what the messages state on the posters. I also have no idea what any of this has to do with Bill or Tom's posts, but this is where the train of thought took me. :) -- TL, Tim Tim, I saw a PBS "Antiques Roadshow" the other week where a woman had a slew--400 or more-- of "English" langauge Japanese propaganda posters. The roadshow guy estimated them in the thousands of dollars, even though he had never seen anything like them before--IIRCC. Op |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
Willi wrote:
When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to patrons online? Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard, they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or listen to it on your computer for a two week period. There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited. Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability of scientific journals. Willi Hi Willi: A lot scientific journals are available online. The series I publish in, is, and can be found at http://esa.publisher.ingentaconnect.com/content/esa The rub is that full access is available only to members. The general public can usually get access to the abstract. Many authors, myself included, will pay to have a free pdf file than anyone can download. Also, the article only go back to about 1999. Anything older will likely be in print, not pdf. We are working on changing that, however, but it takes time and money to do. There are a number of services, like JSTOR that have archives scientific journals. There are more and more open journals, meaning they allow full access to anyone. I haven't published in any yet, but am considering. Tim Lysyk |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
On Dec 1, 11:24 am, Willi wrote:
When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to patrons online? Everything? Never. See this excellent article (online! :-) by Anthony Grafton from a recent New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_grafton (he also has an online-only selection of his favorite web resources he http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007...neonly_grafton) I usually shy away from words like "never" but even Google hasn't (and probably won't) put a dent in digitizing the printed record, let alone keep up with what is currently published (and "published"). Let alone usefully make it available. (I do, however, think Google Books is a pretty cool idea.) Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard, they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or listen to it on your computer for a two week period. DRM at work. They don't work on iPods because they use Windows DRM. I've never actually used any of those from my public library because the restrictions are just so foolish. There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited. Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability of scientific journals. Most are, including deep archives, but if you mean "online availability of scientific journals from my living room" then the answer is economics won't allow it, at least not now. Tim has pointed out some of the issues. You should be able to access many online if you darken the doorway of the library at Colorado State. We see independent researchers at our place every day. Bill |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
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OT Muir journal collection digitized
Willi wrote:
I figure it's resistance from authors, publishers etc that keeps this from happening. The music industry, with alot of kicking and screaming, has made/is making this transition. IMO, this change has expanded the variety of music available instead of relying on "the industry" to pick, not the best music, but the music they feel will make them the most money. I think it's a logical step for the "printed" word. The only reason that this change hasn't been "forced" by the public (like it was with music) is that there isn't YET a way to read these digitized words that is as easy and satisfying as using printed media. That's how I look at it but I'm sure I'm missing some salient points. Publishers and authors in all the various media are always suspicious and fearful of change, and for good reason. It threatens to dilute the value of their intellectual property. Whether they're justified in these fears or not, the fact is that their interests as producers and owners of content aren't congruent with your interests as a consumer of content. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
"Willi" wrote in message ... wrote: Most are, including deep archives, but if you mean "online availability of scientific journals from my living room" then the answer is economics won't allow it, at least not now. Tim has pointed out some of the issues. You should be able to access many online if you darken the doorway of the library at Colorado State. We see independent researchers at our place every day. But why should I have to go there? I would think that it costs more for a library to offer the physical facilities and equipment to provide online access to the journals at the library than it would to provide it for home use. What am I missing here? Control issues. There is a lot of money at stake here. E-texts are, by their very nature, easier to copy, reproduce, and distribute than old fashioned printed materials. Anybody with a computer can do it. Wolfgang |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 05:59:32 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 1, 11:24 am, Willi wrote: When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to patrons online? Everything? Never. See this excellent article (online! :-) by Anthony Grafton from a recent New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_grafton (he also has an online-only selection of his favorite web resources he http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007...neonly_grafton) I usually shy away from words like "never" but even Google hasn't (and probably won't) put a dent in digitizing the printed record, let alone keep up with what is currently published (and "published"). Let alone usefully make it available. (I do, however, think Google Books is a pretty cool idea.) How close do you think it'll come, including legal and extra-legal scanning and "ebooking?" It would seem that between it all (Project Gutenberg, the Carnegie Mellon thing, Athens, JSTOR, Knovel, Thompson/Gale, ebookers, etc.) there is already a fair amount of books, manuals, articles, etc., plus with libraries scanning their "papers" collections, there is a growing pile of stuff in electronic form now. I'd offer that the biggest problem might be creating a central catalog to it all and figuring out how to add the extra-legal stuff, but ??? TC, R Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard, they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or listen to it on your computer for a two week period. DRM at work. They don't work on iPods because they use Windows DRM. I've never actually used any of those from my public library because the restrictions are just so foolish. There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited. Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability of scientific journals. Most are, including deep archives, but if you mean "online availability of scientific journals from my living room" then the answer is economics won't allow it, at least not now. Tim has pointed out some of the issues. You should be able to access many online if you darken the doorway of the library at Colorado State. We see independent researchers at our place every day. Bill |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
"Willi" wrote in message ... wrote: On Dec 1, 11:24 am, Willi wrote: When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to patrons online? Everything? Never. See this excellent article (online! :-) by Anthony Grafton from a recent New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_grafton (he also has an online-only selection of his favorite web resources he http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007...neonly_grafton) I usually shy away from words like "never" but even Google hasn't (and probably won't) put a dent in digitizing the printed record, let alone keep up with what is currently published (and "published"). Let alone usefully make it available. (I do, however, think Google Books is a pretty cool idea.) When I said "everything", I didn't mean EVERYTHING.... Right, not EVERYTHING, but there is already a stupefying quantity of free stuff available. The trouble is cataloguing......finding what you're interested in. There is no single comprehensive source of information on what's available......or, none that I'm aware of, anyway. However, there are a number of GOOD sources. Among the best I've found a The Internet Public Library; http://www.ipl.org/ The Online Books Page; http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/ and The Internet Archive; http://www.archive.org/index.php All three of these will direct you to other sources. There are many of them out there. I have links to 50 or 60 (most of which I rarely check because of their limited scope) that I'll be happy to send to anyone interested, but it's easy enough to search them (and countless others) out via Google. Wolfgang |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
On Dec 2, 11:28 am, Willi wrote:
wrote: Most are, including deep archives, but if you mean "online availability of scientific journals from my living room" then the answer is economics won't allow it, at least not now. Tim has pointed out some of the issues. You should be able to access many online if you darken the doorway of the library at Colorado State. We see independent researchers at our place every day. But why should I have to go there? I would think that it costs more for a library to offer the physical facilities and equipment to provide online access to the journals at the library than it would to provide it for home use. What am I missing here? This is where the economics comes in. Colorado State, as with all academic/research libraries spends a lot of dollars (a LOT) to procure access to the online versions of research journals. And to the indexing tools that provide researchers the interface they need to find the bits from within these journals that they need for their work. Most content providers have licensing agreements that libraries sign when they purchase these collections (or when they purchase the right to access these collections.) These agreements- some more strict than others- usually allow access to the content by university (or licensee) affiliated users. So to access the content from home, users have to authenticate. So the CSU grad student or professor who lives next door to you can access the good stuff from his living room, while you (and I'm assuming you are not CSU affiliated here) cannot. Most (not all) agreements state that walk-in library users are allowed to access content regardless of affiliation, which is why I mentioned it to you as a possibility. And I'm primarily talking about scientific content, since that is what I assume you are interested in. The Knovels, IEEExplores, Nature, ACS, Elseviers out there (and for non-sciences, JSTOR, Proquest, Gale, etc.) are dedicated to providing online access to historic and current content, but they also have a vested economic interest as well and I can tell you that big dollars change hands! Note that there are major public library systems that are providing more and more access to this kind (online, remote access) of content as well, akin to the e-books you've already noticed. I wouldn't hold your breath for them to give you access to Nature any time soon though :-) I know that you are probably thinking "yes, but tax dollars go to the NSF and the NIH which pays for the research, so I should have access to the results" and/or "Colorado State is a public institution so I should have access to the materials to which they subscribe" and I'll nod and smile and won't be able to explain why the answer is, simply, "sorry!" Cheers! Bill |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
On Dec 2, 11:04 am, Willi wrote:
wrote: DRM at work. They don't work on iPods because they use Windows DRM. I've never actually used any of those from my public library because the restrictions are just so foolish. (I understand DRM. My comment was a just dig at IPODS, and Microsoft) Maybe the specific protection scheme is cumbersome, but I don't understand why you think it is foolish. It is a system for information that is covered by copywrite. You don't own the information you download, you just "borrow" it, like you do now when you check out a book at a library. (Copyright) Foolish was a hasty choice of adjective. I like your "cumbersome" much better, and in my case also a dig at Microsoft, and as a Windows resistant Mac user, I bristle when I see content that is labeled "Windows only." Yeh, I know I can run Windows on my MacBook, I just don't want to. Bill |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
On Dec 3, 9:11 am, wrote:
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 05:59:32 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Dec 1, 11:24 am, Willi wrote: When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to patrons online? Everything? Never. See this excellent article (online! :-) by Anthony Grafton from a recent New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_grafton (he also has an online-only selection of his favorite web resources he http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007...neonly_grafton) I usually shy away from words like "never" but even Google hasn't (and probably won't) put a dent in digitizing the printed record, let alone keep up with what is currently published (and "published"). Let alone usefully make it available. (I do, however, think Google Books is a pretty cool idea.) How close do you think it'll come, including legal and extra-legal scanning and "ebooking?" It would seem that between it all (Project Gutenberg, the Carnegie Mellon thing, Athens, JSTOR, Knovel, Thompson/Gale, ebookers, etc.) there is already a fair amount of books, manuals, articles, etc., plus with libraries scanning their "papers" collections, there is a growing pile of stuff in electronic form now. I'd offer that the biggest problem might be creating a central catalog to it all and figuring out how to add the extra-legal stuff, but ??? This is where it gets tricky, and I'll point you again to the Grafton article. He says it way more eloquently than I can. In particular, if you start looking at the notion of a universal library of EVERYTHING, things get dicey. Grafton points out that the U.S. National Archives alone has approximately 9 billion items. That's a lot of scanning. Or that in the Google Library project, they are scanning 1 million books from the NYPL- that is a drop in the proverbial bucket compared to the NYPL's total holdings. And as you hint at, the problem isn't just the scanning- consider the work that goes into creating a useful, searchable collection of materials. Have a peek, for example, at the nice work the UOP library folks did on that Muir collection- each page is indexed and tagged. That takes some time, and expertise! And sure, its easy to say "well, of course you'd take the time and effort for Muir" but who draws the line on what is important and what is not? Perhaps one day Settlesworth's morning notes to his employer will be deemed equally important! I'll also point out that of the providers you mention above, at least three of them are subscription-based. How close to "everything" will we get? Hard to say. But I hope that despite the embarrassment of riches provided by the likes of Google Books and so on (and quite seriously, the amount of information- and maybe even knowledge!- that is available freely to those with online access is MUCH larger now than it ever has been), that folks don't think "I'm searching EVERYTHING!" Because they aren't. Not that being exhaustive is always the goal, but still... Bill (see, I told you, push the right button and I can go on, and on, and on.... :-) |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
"Opus--Mark H. Bowen" wrote in message ... I saw a PBS "Antiques Roadshow" the other week where a woman had a slew--400 or more-- of "English" langauge Japanese propaganda posters. The roadshow guy estimated them in the thousands of dollars, even though he had never seen anything like them before--IIRCC. Op I'm not amazed at the popularity of antiques. In the early 90's my mom wanted a garage sale before they moved. I guess they needed to lighten their load, sort of clean house. It was our very first garage sale, so a few days before I advertised in the local newspaper as 1st garage sale in 50 years. I also listed a few items, many from the Japanese Interment Camp. Gave the address and the starting time of 9:00am that Saturday morning. As it turned out, we had people knocking on our door before Saturday wanting to view items we had. I finally had to put a note on our front door that the sale will start 9am on Saturday, please do not bother us before then. That morning, we had people camped out on our lawn at 5am. My Dad got up around 8am and said; "What the Hell's going on out there?" By then it looked like we were throwing a rock concert. I guess one of the neighbors who didn't know what was happening, called the police, and a good thing as the police had to take control of the crowd. I asked, "Hey Dad, is this what camp life was like?" He just shook his head and said; "Don't sell any of my fishing gear!" -tom |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
On Dec 2, 11:04 am, Willi wrote:
wrote: DRM at work. They don't work on iPods because they use Windows DRM. I've never actually used any of those from my public library because the restrictions are just so foolish. (I understand DRM. My comment was a just dig at IPODS, and Microsoft) Maybe the specific protection scheme is cumbersome, but I don't understand why you think it is foolish. It is a system for information that is covered by copywrite. You don't own the information you download, you just "borrow" it, like you do now when you check out a book at a library. OK, I thought of an analogy. You rightly point out that you are borrowing the e-book (or audiobook) when you download it, and that, not unlike borrowing a book, you should not expect to keep the copy indefinitely. However, when you check out a print book, do they only check it out to you if you meet certain restrictions? Does the book disappear if you keep it longer than x-number of weeks? Do they first make sure you don't own a photocopier or scanner? This is what I was thinking about when I used the term "foolish". And I think that rather than fight these restrictions, libraries have given in to the publishers who insist on the restrictions so that they (the library) can provide a service- it may not be a perfect service, but it is a service, one in which both the client and the vendor are getting something. I figure it's resistance from authors, publishers etc that keeps this from happening. The music industry, with alot of kicking and screaming, has made/is making this transition. IMO, this change has expanded the variety of music available instead of relying on "the industry" to pick, not the best music, but the music they feel will make them the most money. I think it's a logical step for the "printed" word. The only reason that this change hasn't been "forced" by the public (like it was with music) is that there isn't YET a way to read these digitized words that is as easy and satisfying as using printed media. It will be interesting to see if anyone (eg. the new Kindle) can breathe life into the e-book reader concept. That market has floundered for as many years as it has been extant. Although I *do* know a few people who actually prefer to read on a screen (and in these cases [three people] the screen is a PDA.) Of course, here we are talking about books that one would read, not reference materials or short articles, etc. I like how you used the word "satisfying". There is something satisfying about the book as an item, and reading a book as a process, is there not? However, I would wager that a very large percentage of the books I have read over the past several years (and an even higher percentage of articles), I "discovered" by some digital means (reviews found and read online, through personal contacts made online, etc.) Even Wolfgang's "Forgotten Treasures" I usually end up digging out the original, rather than reading on the screen (or printing out.) We are lucky, no? Bill |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
wrote in message ... ...its easy to say "well, of course you'd take the time and effort for Muir".... Um......who dat? Most people, or so it seems to me anyway, on hearing a faint bell ringing, will either shake their heads until it goes away or turn up the volume to drown it out. Here in southern Curdistan the name "Muir" crops up all over the landscape.....not so surprisingly. References to eponymy (I've tried this on the John Muir trail in the Kettle Moraine State forest about thirty miles west of here) usually elicit blank stares. You'd be amazed how easy it is to lead folks into a discussion of the role played by Frank and Lloyd Wright in the development of heavier than air flight. :) Wolfgang but then, references to eponymy, regardless of context, generally result in something ranging from blank stares to outright belligerence. |
OT Muir journal collection digitized
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OT Muir journal collection digitized
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