OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

ok, ok...i know... but honestly, it's the most encouraging thing i've
seen in the national political landscape in far too long a time. i fear
it may not last, that iowa is a unique island in the political world,
and that it will cause the rivals to resort to dirty works appealing to
the baser sense of the electorate...but, damn, i'm hopeful and nearly
optimistic. g more than 50% of the caucus participants were 1st
timers...perhaps all us cynics are dying out and there will be a new
vigor in a changed political world.

jeff (wishin and hopin...but still cynical)

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Jan 4, 8:13*am, jeff miller wrote:
but, damn, i'm hopeful and nearly
optimistic. g *more than 50% of the caucus participants were 1st
timers...perhaps all us cynics are dying out and there will be a new
vigor in a changed political world.

I agree; one of the best thing about that event was the turnout. The
quantitative results weren't as I preferred, but the enthusiasm of the
participants was good to see. The punditry still sucked, and I mostly
watched the Orange Bowl instead of the verbal masturbation being
passed off as insight and analysis.

Joe F.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"jeff miller" wrote



but honestly, it's the most encouraging thing i've
seen in the national political landscape in far too long a time.

snip

, damn, i'm hopeful and nearly
optimistic. g


One thing I've learned over the last seven years is that love is not enough.
I love my country. I've had plenty of reasons to feel the pains that love
can bring the last seven years, .... pains that affirm the love is still
strong.


But I want more than love. I want to be truly proud of that love. I
want to hold my head high when to the actions of my country are pointed
out. I want to be respected, not just feared. And, I want to feel self
respect and see it in the eyes of my neighbors.

As Jeff says, " ok, ok...i know..." but our brothers and sisters in Iowa
have made us look better in the eyes of the world ... and in my eyes.

No single president will have the time to undo all the damage done by
Bush/Cheny/Rove ... but we're headed in the correct direction, and we DO
have the will

" damn, i'm hopeful and nearly optimistic. g"

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

rb608 wrote:

I agree; one of the best thing about that event was the turnout. The
quantitative results weren't as I preferred, but the enthusiasm of the
participants was good to see. The punditry still sucked, and I mostly
watched the Orange Bowl instead of the verbal masturbation being
passed off as insight and analysis.

Obama's victory speech was a masterpiece, he's really
hitting his stride and striking all the right chords.
He's even changed the way he pronounces "poverty" to
sound reminiscent of MLK Jr. He's the real deal.

On the Repub side the GOP establishment is ****tin'
bricks about now. The snake handling rubes are supposed
to vote GOP and then disappear for four years. Huck is
their worst nightmare, the rube strategy come home to
roost.

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 05:30:55 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:13*am, jeff miller wrote:
but, damn, i'm hopeful and nearly
optimistic. g *more than 50% of the caucus participants were 1st
timers...perhaps all us cynics are dying out and there will be a new
vigor in a changed political world.

I agree; one of the best thing about that event was the turnout. The
quantitative results weren't as I preferred, but the enthusiasm of the
participants was good to see. The punditry still sucked, and I mostly
watched the Orange Bowl instead of the verbal masturbation being
passed off as insight and analysis.

Joe F.

I'd have never guessed youse guys were such big Huckabee fans...

IAC, after coming in third, if I were, well, anyone but Hillary, I'd be
hunkered down for the assault from the "well-oiled Clintonista
machine"...

TC,
R
....I still say if McCain and Obama would join together, they'd be the
most electable thing going...and if McCain and Richardson would (with a
spot and a muzzle for Ron Paul on the Cabinet), it'd be the closest
thing to a "_d_emocratic ticket" the US is gonna see...

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:47:32 -0600, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

rb608 wrote:

I agree; one of the best thing about that event was the turnout. The
quantitative results weren't as I preferred, but the enthusiasm of the
participants was good to see. The punditry still sucked, and I mostly
watched the Orange Bowl instead of the verbal masturbation being
passed off as insight and analysis.

Obama's victory speech was a masterpiece, he's really
hitting his stride and striking all the right chords.
He's even changed the way he pronounces "poverty" to
sound reminiscent of MLK Jr. He's the real deal.

Uh-oh...can "sucker bets" of bottles of Scotch be far behind...?

On the Repub side the GOP establishment is ****tin'
bricks about now. The snake handling rubes are supposed
to vote GOP and then disappear for four years. Huck is
their worst nightmare, the rube strategy come home to
roost.

I think the only person ****ting bricks about now is Hillary's Iowa
manager...OTOH, they will probably be able to provide more insight on
the waterboarding issue in a week or two...assuming they are still alive
in a week or two...

HTH,
R
....and like I said, when it's done simply to "torture" someone, it is
_torture_...

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Jan 4, 9:47*am, wrote:
insight and analysis snipped

I wish the Orange Bowl were still on.

Joe F.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"rb608" wrote in message
...
On Jan 4, 9:47 am, wrote:
insight and analysis snipped

I wish the Orange Bowl were still on.

There's always the Spanish language stations on T.V. :)

Wolfgang
to whom spanish is greek.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

...I still say if McCain and Obama would join together, they'd be the
most electable thing going...and if McCain and Richardson would (with a
spot and a muzzle for Ron Paul on the Cabinet), it'd be the closest
thing to a "_d_emocratic ticket" the US is gonna see...

McCain and Richardson, with either in the leadership role, is a dream
team ticket for those of us that believe the scales should be
balanced.
Frank Reid

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

Frank Reid wrote in news:aa327cc3-12c0-4ee5-9c89-
:


...I still say if McCain and Obama would join together, they'd be the
most electable thing going...and if McCain and Richardson would (with a
spot and a muzzle for Ron Paul on the Cabinet), it'd be the closest
thing to a "_d_emocratic ticket" the US is gonna see...

McCain and Richardson, with either in the leadership role, is a dream
team ticket for those of us that believe the scales should be
balanced.
Frank Reid


Hitting those pain killers again, are we??


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

rb608 wrote:

I agree; one of the best thing about that event was the turnout.

The Democratic turnout was phenomenal, especially when you consider that
under the (arcane) rules of the Democratic caucus a voter has to devote
about two hours to the process. (The Republicans just show up and vote.)

The Republicans are going to get their asses kicked in November, and
they richly deserve it. The only thing that could spoil the party would
be a Bloomberg independent run.

I was gratified to see that Ron Paul beat Rudy Giuliani 2-1. Jimmy
Breslin called Giuliani "a small man in search of a balcony." His polls
are tanking in New Hampshire. He's toast, which is great, because he'd
be a very dangerous president.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

rw wrote in
:

He's toast, which is great, because he'd
be a very dangerous president.


Any New Yorker would tell you he's not electable. The Dems have been
holding back on criticism, probably just on the off shot that he might win
the primary.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

Scott Seidman wrote:
rw wrote in
:


He's toast, which is great, because he'd
be a very dangerous president.



Any New Yorker would tell you he's not electable. The Dems have been
holding back on criticism, probably just on the off shot that he might win
the primary.

Now the Republican front runners are a bible-thumping bumpkin and a
flip-flopping cultist. Maybe there's hope for McCain after all.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"rw" wrote

Jimmy
Breslin called Giuliani "a small man in search of a balcony." His polls
are tanking in New Hampshire. He's toast, which is great, because he'd be
a very dangerous president.



I couldn't agree more. Like Bush has done, he's trying to suck as much
personal gain and profit from the Sept 11th tragedy as he can. It is
strategy beneath contempt, IMO.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"rw" wrote

Jimmy
Breslin called Giuliani "a small man in search of a balcony." His polls
are tanking in New Hampshire. He's toast, which is great, because he'd be
a very dangerous president.



I couldn't agree more. Like Bush has done, he's trying to suck as
much personal gain and profit from the Sept 11th tragedy as he can. It
is strategy beneath contempt, IMO.


Welcome to politics. ALL strategies leading to a hoped for election to
national office are beneath contempt. That's what happens when you pander
to the contemptible.

Wolfgang
who, obvious futility notwithstanding, still hopes to live to see a day when
pogo's observation is no longer applicable.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"Larry L" wrote in
:


"rw" wrote

Jimmy
Breslin called Giuliani "a small man in search of a balcony." His
polls are tanking in New Hampshire. He's toast, which is great,
because he'd be a very dangerous president.



I couldn't agree more. Like Bush has done, he's trying to suck as
much personal gain and profit from the Sept 11th tragedy as he can.
It is strategy beneath contempt, IMO.




Chris Rock on Rudy Giuliani (from Real Time with Bill Maher)
21 March 2007 · 2 Comments

“Rudy, you know, Rudy in a crisis is the perfect — he’s like a pitbull.
It’s great if somebody’s breaking in your house. But if they’re not, then,
you know, the pitbull might eat your kids.”



-- Scott
Reverse name to reply

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
t...
rb608 wrote:

I agree; one of the best thing about that event was the turnout. The
quantitative results weren't as I preferred, but the enthusiasm of the
participants was good to see. The punditry still sucked, and I mostly
watched the Orange Bowl instead of the verbal masturbation being
passed off as insight and analysis.

Obama's victory speech was a masterpiece, he's really
hitting his stride and striking all the right chords.
He's even changed the way he pronounces "poverty" to
sound reminiscent of MLK Jr. He's the real deal.

On the Repub side the GOP establishment is ****tin'
bricks about now. The snake handling rubes are supposed
to vote GOP and then disappear for four years. Huck is
their worst nightmare, the rube strategy come home to
roost.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Obama is a great talker. But where is the experience to be the CEO of the
country?

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Jan 4, 1:45*pm, Jeff wrote:
wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:13 am, jeff miller wrote:

but, damn, i'm hopeful and nearly
optimistic. g *more than 50% of the caucus participants were 1st
timers...perhaps all us cynics are dying out and there will be a new
vigor in a changed political world.

I agree; one of the best thing about that event was the turnout. *The
quantitative results weren't as I preferred, but the enthusiasm of the
participants was good to see. *The punditry still sucked, and I mostly
watched the Orange Bowl instead of the verbal masturbation being
passed off as insight and analysis.

Joe F.

I'd have never guessed youse guys were such big Huckabee fans...

IAC, after coming in third, if I were, well, anyone but Hillary, I'd be
hunkered down for the assault from the "well-oiled Clintonista
machine"...

TC,
R
...I still say if McCain and Obama would join together, they'd be the
most electable thing going...and if McCain and Richardson would (with a
spot and a muzzle for Ron Paul on the Cabinet), it'd be the closest
thing to a "_d_emocratic ticket" the US is gonna see...

Though I know you were pluckin some feathers, I actually meant the whole
deal - including on the, ugh, republican side. you'll note i didn't
identify a particular party in my post. Huckabee is frightening to me
for a number of very idiosyncratic reasons, but the fact he won over the
likes of romney and ghouliani was in fact heartening as a sign of
something new in the Godawful Old Party.

(...and, i've not forgotten your early prognostications.)

jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, the way I see the Republican caucus was really a change for the
worse. Huckabee, although on the surface appears to be a decent guy,
is supported by the extreme right wing bible thumping faction of the
party. I am an independent who tends to vote Republican, but I doubt
seriously that I would vote for Huckabee.

What I want in a candidate, is someone who will do for energy
independence, what JFK did for the space race. If a viable candidate
would stand up and promise to bring us energy independence from OPEC
in, say 10/20 years, and show a comprehesive plan by which this could
be accomplished, he/she would have my vote, regardless of race,
gender, or party affiliation. My belief is that most of our problems
in the middle east come as the result of our oil dependency. If that
goes away, then they can no longer hold us hostage with threats of
shutting down the oil supply, and their money will have to come from
China and other emerging economies. The other major benefit would be
the economic opportunities available in the "new" energy technologies.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
t...
rb608 wrote:

I agree; one of the best thing about that event was the turnout. The
quantitative results weren't as I preferred, but the enthusiasm of the
participants was good to see. The punditry still sucked, and I mostly
watched the Orange Bowl instead of the verbal masturbation being
passed off as insight and analysis.

Obama's victory speech was a masterpiece, he's really
hitting his stride and striking all the right chords.
He's even changed the way he pronounces "poverty" to
sound reminiscent of MLK Jr. He's the real deal.

On the Repub side the GOP establishment is ****tin'
bricks about now. The snake handling rubes are supposed
to vote GOP and then disappear for four years. Huck is
their worst nightmare, the rube strategy come home to
roost.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Obama is a great talker. But where is the experience to be the CEO of the
country?

How many people can you name who have had experience as President of the
United States prior to their first election to the position of President of
the United States?

Careful.....it's a trick question.

Dumbass.

Wolfgang

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:13:24 -0500, jeff miller wrote:

ok, ok...i know... but honestly, it's the most encouraging thing i've
seen in the national political landscape in far too long a time. i fear
it may not last, that iowa is a unique island in the political world,
and that it will cause the rivals to resort to dirty works appealing to
the baser sense of the electorate...but, damn, i'm hopeful and nearly
optimistic. g more than 50% of the caucus participants were 1st
timers...perhaps all us cynics are dying out and there will be a new
vigor in a changed political world.

jeff (wishin and hopin...but still cynical)

I'd much rather have a rational method to select the candidates - I'm a
little tired of having zero say in the matter. I think a national primary
day would be much better than the current system.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"ray" wrote in message
...
I think a national primary
day would be much better than the current system.


I am quite sure that the big money interests that sort of got kicked in the
balls last evening in Iowa would agree with you. The only way to success in
a one-off National Primary is with massive advertising, at massive expense.
Guess who the winner is beholden to? Clue: it's not The People.
Tom

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

I noticed tonight that H. Clinton is spinning her loss, ....she is
saying that the Iowa caucus really did not matter much, and the people
from Iowa have it all wrong.... last week she stated just the opposite,
what happened? Really it is not Hillary that is running for President,
Billy Boy wants a third term in the Whitehouse. I have to give Obama
credit. He is a class act. I am a Conservative but I will say one thing,
if Romney got the nomination for the Republican party, I would vote for
Obama just because I believe that he is really for change. Romney on the
other hand even though he is saying that he is a Republican acts more
like a Democrat. But I still believe that Huckaby will get the
nomination for the Repulican party. F/T


--
Fishin Technician
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

Calif Bill wrote:

Obama is a great talker. But where is the experience to be the CEO of the
country?

Perhaps you don't understand the difference between a corporate
CEO and a President of the United States.

But whether you do or don't, try this:

Divide a piece of paper into two columns.

On the left hand side list the experience that Abraham Lincoln
had in 1860.

On the right hand side, list the experience that Barack Obama has
in 2008.

- JR

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"Fishin Technician" wrote in
message ...
But I still believe that Huckaby will get the
nomination for the Repulican party. F/T

I figure his support will grow stronger once the folks in New Jersey learn
how to spell his name. Until then, he'll
pull in the Biblethumpers, kill off Romney and clear the path for McCain. If
the economy continues to head downhill, the Democrats could run virtually
anyone and win big next year.
Tom

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:17:25 -0500, Fishin Technician wrote:


I noticed tonight that H. Clinton is spinning her loss, ....she is
saying that the Iowa caucus really did not matter much, and the people
from Iowa have it all wrong.... last week she stated just the opposite,
what happened? Really it is not Hillary that is running for President,
Billy Boy wants a third term in the Whitehouse. I have to give Obama
credit. He is a class act. I am a Conservative but I will say one thing,
if Romney got the nomination for the Republican party, I would vote for
Obama just because I believe that he is really for change. Romney on the
other hand even though he is saying that he is a Republican acts more
like a Democrat. But I still believe that Huckaby will get the
nomination for the Repulican party. F/T

FWIW - at the current time, the only one I'd be interested in voting for
on either side is McCain. I'm convinced he's an honorable man. Some of the
others may be, I don't know. On the other hand, the last honorable man to
occupy the position was Jimmy Carter - and he wasn't much of a president.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

jeff miller wrote:
ok, ok...i know... but honestly, it's the most encouraging thing i've
seen in the national political landscape in far too long a time. i fear
it may not last, that iowa is a unique island in the political world,
and that it will cause the rivals to resort to dirty works appealing to
the baser sense of the electorate...

The one poll result over the past several months that has
impressed me--much more than the Iowa caucus results--is that
nationwide, Obama's support with people under 35, even many who
say they're "generally conservative," is much higher than for any
other candidate.

Even if Iowa is "unrepresentative," the fact that victory there
made the idea of an Obama nomination not just a vague possibility
but maybe even likely could very well give lots and lots of
people a nudge toward looking on him as the man for the times--as
much a source of inspiration and hope as a "politician" (as JFK
was for many of my generation).

I would not be surprised if the Iowa win, "unimportant" in itself
galvanized a whole lot of otherwise apathetic young people into a
true movement. Imagine if an Obama presidential candidacy
produced a voter turnout above the "expected" on the same scale
that the turnout in Iowa exceeded expectations.

All very well for 50- or 60-somethings to hem and haw, but if
Obama sets the young on fire..... well, it's their day in the sun
now, folks. And it's something this 50-something would truly
like to see.

*AND*, in addition to *THAT*, take a look at this site

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?cycle=2008

and check whom the category "Retired" has contributed to.

- JR
(who knows a steamroller when he sees one and thinks he sees
something that looks suspiciously like one comin' down the road....)

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

Jeff wrote:

..... Huckabee is frightening to me
for a number of very idiosyncratic reasons, but the fact he won over the
likes of romney and ghouliani was in fact heartening as a sign of
something new in the Godawful Old Party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUQW8LUMs8

- JR
(who's grateful for humor *wherever* he finds it...)

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"JR" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote:

..... Huckabee is frightening to me for a number of very idiosyncratic
reasons, but the fact he won over the likes of romney and ghouliani was
in fact heartening as a sign of something new in the Godawful Old Party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUQW8LUMs8

- JR
(who's grateful for humor *wherever* he finds it...)

I guess you saw Norris standing behind Huckabee during the victory speech
last night.

Op

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Jan 4, 8:13*am, jeff miller wrote:
ok, ok...i know... but honestly, it's the most encouraging thing i've
seen in the national political landscape in far too long a time. i fear
it may not last, that iowa is a unique island in the political world,
and that it will cause the rivals to resort to dirty works appealing to
the baser sense of the electorate...but, damn, i'm hopeful and nearly
optimistic. g *more than 50% of the caucus participants were 1st
timers...perhaps all us cynics are dying out and there will be a new
vigor in a changed political world.

jeff (wishin and hopin...but still cynical)

you know, jr's post analogizing the jfk movement to the growing
sense of obama's power among the young is very convincing. thinking
back to those halcyon times, i saw myself amongst the adoring throngs
of kids in chapel hill in the early 60's, watching our hopes for the
future rise in the hands of jack kennedy.
fast forward to the present, and i watched myself, hunched and
fuming over my discomfort, as my hoped for image of the clintons back
in the whitehouse began to fade in the bright light rising out of
iowa.
maybe it's time for the young to give us another shot of
charisma.

yfitons
wayno

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"JR" wrote


All very well for 50- or 60-somethings to hem and haw, but if
Obama sets the young on fire..... well, it's their day in the sun
now, folks. And it's something this 50-something would truly
like to see.

*AND*, in addition to *THAT*, take a look at this site

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?cycle=2008

and check whom the category "Retired" has contributed to.


Obama's is the first individual campaign I've contributed $ to since I was
'young and on fire' myself. I gave a litttle when he first annouced his
intention to run and a little more a couple times since.

I've sometimes wondered exactly why .... and your post has helped me
understand. It IS the time for the future.

Go get 'em kids!

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 07:29:15 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

you know, jr's post analogizing the jfk movement to the growing
sense of obama's power among the young is very convincing. t

I knew JFK. I voted for him in 1960. Obama is NOT a JFK.

The first thing JFK did when he got in the WH was to give us a very
good tax cut. Then he gave the military a nice pay increase. Obama
ain't gonna do that. JFK was also aware of those who would do us
harm. Obama doesn't care. He believes he can "talk" to our enemies.

When he gives me a tax cut, does something about illegal aliens, and
makes me feel safe from terrorists, *then* I might vote for him.

Until then, I'll stick with McClain.

Dave

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 07:29:15 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:
The first thing JFK did when he got in the WH was to give us a very
good tax cut. Then he gave the military a nice pay increase. Obama
ain't gonna do that.

nor should he, as neither is NEEDED at the moment.


JFK was also aware of those who would do us
harm. Obama doesn't care. He believes he can "talk" to our enemies.

Once again, different times, and a not-too-accurate JFK oversimplification.
Whoever leads us next has to undo several years of pigheaded stupidity
regarding international relations. We have to rebuild bridges to our
friends, let alone try and understand the enemies.

Until then, I'll stick with McClain.

If you find someone named McClain on the ballot, feel free to vote for
himg

Tom

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Jan 4, 12:06 pm, George Adams wrote:

party. I am an independent who tends to vote Republican, but I doubt
seriously that I would vote for Huckabee.

What I want in a candidate, is someone who will do for energy
independence, what JFK did for the space race. If a viable candidate
would stand up and promise to bring us energy independence from OPEC
in, say 10/20 years,

I browsed Huckabee's website to learn more about him, and he does you
one better; he promises energy independence in less than 8 years ("by
the end of the second term").

and show a comprehesive plan by which this could
be accomplished,

Ah, now that's the sticky part :-)

Impossible, in my opinion, unless you can convince our country to
return to a one car per family model, and driving that car maybe 5000
miles per year. Anything less, and the numbers simply don't add up.
Not even close -- at least an order of magnitude apart. No candidate
will be elected who's telling the voters that. So they sell pipe
dreams (biodiesel, hydrogen) and snake oil (ethanol).

Jon.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:01:06 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:

If you find someone named McClain on the ballot, feel free to vote for
himg

Duh on me, Tom. d;o)

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"Tom Littleton" wrote in message
news:CBPfj.6285$TO.3109@trnddc01...

If you find someone named McClain on the ballot, feel free to vote for
himg

I was thinkin Bruce Willis' character from the Die Hard movies. Now
*there's* a guy who don't take no **** from the bad guys. g

Joe F.

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

"jeff miller" wrote


jeff (like once used coffee grounds...there's probably a cup or two worth
of brewing left)



I like that

OT -IOWA POLITICS
 

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 07:29:15 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

...as my hoped for image of the clintons back
in the whitehouse...

Ya Goddamned vodka-drinking troll...

YFCIT,
R

yfitons
wayno