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Why that sonofabitch...
The latest round of "pleeeeeease, oh pretty please, pick my husband..."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...lth-care-plan/ ....and just what kind of monster supports a taxpayer-subsidized health care plan that doesn't cover multi-millionaires...you know, Liz, the part of America in which you live... Sheesh, hasn't this silly social-clawing broad had her 15 minutes YET...? R ....she and hubby the hairboy are gonna wait in line at County for ward space? Yeah, and Paris Hilton just can't wait get in on the free processed cheese food product, too... |
Why that sonofabitch...
wrote in message ... ...she and hubby the hairboy are gonna wait in line at County for ward space? Yeah, and Paris Hilton just can't wait get in on the free processed cheese food product, too... whether she does or doesn't utilize a Universal Plan, doesn't mean it isn't a VERY good idea. I mean, I don't see where the two equate. It's not like we aren't paying, and in a very inefficient manner, for the healthcare of a lot of others right now, right? Tom |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Apr 2, 1:29*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
wrote in message ... ...she and hubby the hairboy are gonna wait in line at County for ward space? *Yeah, and Paris Hilton just can't wait get in on the free processed cheese food product, too... whether she does or doesn't utilize a Universal Plan, doesn't mean it isn't a VERY good idea. I mean, I don't see where the two equate. It's not like we aren't paying, and in a very inefficient manner, for the healthcare of a lot of others right now, right? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom And the cost is making the cost of American goods non competive. Like they say General Motors is a health care company that also builds automobiles. Were number 1 in Health Cost and 37 th in Quality. there is a lot of nonproductive deadwood in the healthcare system. Let's see we put men on the moon, have the biggest armed forces etc. etc. and we can come up with a better system than the French? |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:29:17 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote: wrote in message .. . ...she and hubby the hairboy are gonna wait in line at County for ward space? Yeah, and Paris Hilton just can't wait get in on the free processed cheese food product, too... whether she does or doesn't utilize a Universal Plan, doesn't mean it isn't a VERY good idea. I mean, I don't see where the two equate. Sure it does. What's the point of talking about, much less providing, a health care plan (really, for such folks, an option) to people who have no intention of using it? If the US is going to have some _additional_ form(s) of "universal" health care, it would seem that it ought to begin with those who, first, are entitled to it (and IMO, that includes citizens first, legal non-citizens second, and non-legal aliens, um, well, not at all...) and actually _need_ it, and then, worry about covering those who don't need it and won't use it. It's not like we aren't paying, and in a very inefficient manner, for the healthcare of a lot of others right now, right? Right, but that's a 'hole 'nuther, um, OBROFF - esp. for T-Bone, kettle of fish... TC, R Tom |
Why that sonofabitch...
"Tom Littleton" wrote in message news:x0SIj.6165$A87.358@trnddc06... wrote in message ... ...she and hubby the hairboy are gonna wait in line at County for ward space? Yeah, and Paris Hilton just can't wait get in on the free processed cheese food product, too... whether she does or doesn't utilize a Universal Plan, doesn't mean it isn't a VERY good idea. I mean, I don't see where the two equate. It's not like we aren't paying, and in a very inefficient manner, for the healthcare of a lot of others right now, right? Tom Why not just put a cap on how much profit can be made? Heck, the CEO's don't "have" to be paid millions.... Kinda like a food co-op.... john |
Why that sonofabitch...
Hello asadi,
"Tom Littleton" wrote in message news:x0SIj.6165$A87.358@trnddc06... wrote in message ... ...she and hubby the hairboy are gonna wait in line at County for ward space? Yeah, and Paris Hilton just can't wait get in on the free processed cheese food product, too... whether she does or doesn't utilize a Universal Plan, doesn't mean it isn't a VERY good idea. I mean, I don't see where the two equate. It's not like we aren't paying, and in a very inefficient manner, for the healthcare of a lot of others right now, right? Tom Why not just put a cap on how much profit can be made? Heck, the CEO's don't "have" to be paid millions.... Kinda like a food co-op.... john talk about serving up a grapefruit ;-) Jim |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:29:20 GMT, "asadi"
wrote: "Tom Littleton" wrote in message news:x0SIj.6165$A87.358@trnddc06... wrote in message ... ...she and hubby the hairboy are gonna wait in line at County for ward space? Yeah, and Paris Hilton just can't wait get in on the free processed cheese food product, too... whether she does or doesn't utilize a Universal Plan, doesn't mean it isn't a VERY good idea. I mean, I don't see where the two equate. It's not like we aren't paying, and in a very inefficient manner, for the healthcare of a lot of others right now, right? Tom Why not just put a cap on how much profit can be made? Why not just put a cap on how much health care is provided? Heck, the CEO's don't "have" to be paid millions.... Heck, those that can't afford health care don't "have" to have it provided... Kinda like a food co-op.... Well, kinda like something, anyway... HTH, R john |
Why that sonofabitch...
wrote in message ... On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:29:20 GMT, "asadi" wrote: "Tom Littleton" wrote in message news:x0SIj.6165$A87.358@trnddc06... wrote in message ... ...she and hubby the hairboy are gonna wait in line at County for ward space? Yeah, and Paris Hilton just can't wait get in on the free processed cheese food product, too... whether she does or doesn't utilize a Universal Plan, doesn't mean it isn't a VERY good idea. I mean, I don't see where the two equate. It's not like we aren't paying, and in a very inefficient manner, for the healthcare of a lot of others right now, right? Tom Why not just put a cap on how much profit can be made? Why not just put a cap on how much health care is provided? Heck, the CEO's don't "have" to be paid millions.... Heck, those that can't afford health care don't "have" to have it provided... Kinda like a food co-op.... Well, kinda like something, anyway... HTH, R john Major reason for the huge healthcare costs are HMO's. Before you could go to the hospital for a cold or sniffle for a $5 copay, you waited out the cold for 3 days. Now you co to the hospital, get your temp taken and a lot of other tests and cost the system a thousand or two, and you go home a pop an aspirin and wait 3 days for the cold to go away. Also, that $60,000,000 that Edwards has is from Malpractice suits against mostly OB/GYN. And most were very flaky cases. So that $60mm Edwards got probably cost a billion dollars total to society in court costs, taxes and the defense of the suits. You go to the ER now, they are going to run a couple $k of tests to protect themselves from liability suits. All this adds up big time. Prices insurance out of reach for a lot of the population. And if you are in the lower 25% with no assets, you already have universal healthcare. Hospitals have to provide care, and you have no assets to pay, so the rest of us pay more. Plus the $k for tests to provide malpractice defense. |
Why that sonofabitch...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message m... Major reason for the huge healthcare costs Look dude, opinions are like assholes so you and BJ are entitled to yours but as someone once posted, you guys are not entitled to your own facts. There's a myriad number of reasons that compound the issues regarding the costs and access to health care services in this country but HMO's, defensive medicine, and lawsuits are not a major player in the total costs. And the average ER visit in my healthcare system and state is signifcantly less than a grand and the effing quality is pretty damn good, not perfect everywhere but much higher than being "ranked" #37. Now back to your regulary scheduled whatever y'all want to call this. |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:31:21 -0400, "Wayne Knight"
wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message om... Major reason for the huge healthcare costs Look dude, opinions are like assholes so you and BJ are entitled to yours but as someone once posted, you guys are not entitled to your own facts. There's a myriad number of reasons that compound the issues regarding the costs and access to health care services in this country but HMO's, defensive medicine, and lawsuits are not a major player in the total costs. And the average ER visit in my healthcare system and state is signifcantly less than a grand and the effing quality is pretty damn good, not perfect everywhere but much higher than being "ranked" #37. Now back to your regulary scheduled whatever y'all want to call this. Well, now...I was waiting until someone else who actually, you know, sorta had some idea of that which they spoke with regards to "American" health care showed up...ooh, ooh, and accounting, too... So, anyways, care to attempt to shoot down the asinine idea that the US should provide "universal health care" to not only millionaire malpractice plaintiffs' attorney's wives who aren't interested in using such a system (and yeah, Elizabitch, I'm talking about your ass and rest your "the other America"...) as well as folks who are no more entitled to US-taxpayer-funded healthcare than they are to, oh, say, French taxpayer-supported healthcare... Curious, R |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:09:16 -0800, "asadi"
wrote: "Wayne Knight" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message m... Major reason for the huge healthcare costs Look dude, opinions are like assholes so you and BJ are entitled to yours but as someone once posted, you guys are not entitled to your own facts. There's a myriad number of reasons that compound the issues regarding the costs and access to health care services in this country but HMO's, defensive medicine, and lawsuits are not a major player in the total costs. And the average ER visit in my healthcare system and state is signifcantly less than a grand and the effing quality is pretty damn good, not perfect everywhere but much higher than being "ranked" #37. Now back to your regulary scheduled whatever y'all want to call this. Back when I was working...well, let's just say that when you see that ambulance roll down the city street, it's a 90% sure thing somebody who has never worked or paid taxes is going to the ER.... Uh-oh... This has the potential not to end well...maybe an ambulance is needed... R john |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Apr 2, 10:12*pm, wrote:
So, anyways, care to attempt to shoot down No, not really, at least not here. I think you're being a little over the top on Mrs. Edwards' quote at the same time I don't have much faith in Mrs. Clinton's approach which Mrs. Edwards claims to endorse nor have I much faith in Mr. McCain's "market" approach. Those that despise the thought of government funded healthcare conviently forget that the government pretty much drives the direction and costs of health services in this country as the largest purchaser of services already while those that want it often have don't understand the adverse effect that they pay because the government is the largest purchaser of healthcare. The "market force" side ignores the reality that the traditional market transaction does not occur in healthcare. There is a reason we can't walk up to the local Walgren's counter and buy demerol. This storm has been brewing since before Truman's universal health coverage attempt was defeated in Congress and will continue to brew just like social security and energy usage/supply. There's no reason for the leaders, whoever and whatever party they belong to, to actually lead. |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:48:17 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote: On Apr 2, 10:12*pm, wrote: So, anyways, care to attempt to shoot down No, not really, at least not here. I think you're being a little over the top on Mrs. Edwards' quote at the same time I don't have much faith in Mrs. Clinton's approach which Mrs. Edwards claims to endorse nor have I much faith in Mr. McCain's "market" approach. Those that despise the thought of government funded healthcare conviently forget that the government pretty much drives the direction and costs of health services in this country as the largest purchaser of services already while those that want it often have don't understand the adverse effect that they pay because the government is the largest purchaser of healthcare. The "market force" side ignores the reality that the traditional market transaction does not occur in healthcare. There is a reason we can't walk up to the local Walgren's counter and buy demerol. This storm has been brewing since before Truman's universal health coverage attempt was defeated in Congress and will continue to brew just like social security and energy usage/supply. There's no reason for the leaders, whoever and whatever party they belong to, to actually lead. Um, well, since you didn't want to get into it... TC, R ....I mean, everything was all perfect when Bill was in the WH... |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Apr 2, 10:56*pm, wrote:
...I mean, everything was all perfect when Bill was in the WH... When did you become a Clinton supporter? ;) |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 20:01:38 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote: On Apr 2, 10:56*pm, wrote: ...I mean, everything was all perfect when Bill was in the WH... When did you become a Clinton supporter? ;) You insult me, sir! I think Hillary would make a fan-damned-tastic prez...of Iran... HTH, R ....as I said, how much worse could it be...? |
Why that sonofabitch...
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message . .. "Calif Bill" wrote in message m... Major reason for the huge healthcare costs Look dude, opinions are like assholes so you and BJ are entitled to yours but as someone once posted, you guys are not entitled to your own facts. There's a myriad number of reasons that compound the issues regarding the costs and access to health care services in this country but HMO's, defensive medicine, and lawsuits are not a major player in the total costs. And the average ER visit in my healthcare system and state is signifcantly less than a grand and the effing quality is pretty damn good, not perfect everywhere but much higher than being "ranked" #37. Now back to your regulary scheduled whatever y'all want to call this. Back when I was working...well, let's just say that when you see that ambulance roll down the city street, it's a 90% sure thing somebody who has never worked or paid taxes is going to the ER.... john |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Apr 2, 8:15*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 20:01:38 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight wrote: On Apr 2, 10:56*pm, wrote: ...I mean, everything was all perfect when Bill was in the WH... When did you become a Clinton supporter? ;) You insult me, sir! *I think Hillary would make a fan-damned-tastic prez...of Iran... HTH, R ...as I said, how much worse could it be...? - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Actually I think they may elect Bush as the next Prez of Iram. He has earned it. After all he is responsible for vastly increasing the power and influence of Iran in the World. He attacked and weakened the Taliban, a sworn enemy of Iran. Bush then knocked out Saddam, another major enemy of Iran, and then put a Sheite government friendly to Iran in charge in Iraq for the first time in Iraq's history. Bush and his Neo-clowns have done more to make things comfy for the Iranian right- wingers and religous zelots than any Iranian politician could have. Dave |
Why that sonofabitch...
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Why that sonofabitch...
wrote in message ... ...Provide some actual data.... Considering the source, these may be the funniest words ever posted to ROFF. Wolfgang or anywhere else, for that matter. :) |
Why that sonofabitch...
- Show quoted text -
Actually I think they may elect Bush as the next Prez of Iram. He has earned it. After all he is responsible for vastly increasing the power and influence of Iran in the World. He attacked and weakened the Taliban, a sworn enemy of Iran. Bush then knocked out Saddam, another major enemy of Iran, and then put a Sheite government friendly to Iran in charge in Iraq for the first time in Iraq's history. Bush and his Neo-clowns have done more to make things comfy for the Iranian right- wingers and religous zelots than any Iranian politician could have. OK, how? *Provide some actual data, as opposed to unsupported statements, that show that Iranian kooks, such as Ahmadinejad, have more power "in the World" (or even in Iran) or are "comfy." *I'm not talking about press clippings that simply offer rhetoric about it, I'm talking about actual data. HTH, R Dave- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Assuming for a moment that you concede that the wars in Iraq, deposition of Saddam, and the Taliban 1.) occurered, and 2.) that these events helped Iran . . . . it is possible that you havn't noticed the increased significance of Iran, so. . . . . Well, let's see, Amadinejad did just recently make an invited State visit to Bahgdad, or so the media would have us believe, and damn if it didn't look like the Iraqis were cheering him. Seems the Sheite Prez of Iraq (Our allies?) invited him, and he came, went thru the streets with a minimal guard and said among other things that the US should get out. Compared to Bush's scared pussy behaviour on his recent visit I'd say the comparision was embarrassing. Of course the video that the whole world saw might not be real. Oh, and I'm probably naive to believe that the drubbing the Iranian backed Hezbellah administered to the Israeli IDF in Lebonon, despite all the cluster bomblets Bush rush shipped so the IDF could cover its tail-between-the-legs retreat with explosives specifically designed to be attractive to children. . . well I guess that whole fiasco was designed to show how weak Iran is, and the Israeli inquiry is probably a fake too. But to me it suggested that maybe our approaches in the Middle East need some reconsideration. And that Hamas thingy in Gaza, meaningless right? Then there are the various deployments of US forces around Iran, Oh and that ABM defence thingy. . . but these could just be pretending to be there to counter growing Iranian power, right? No Richard, your team has done much to remove Iran's enemies, enhance Iran's friends, and weaken the opposition reformers and liberals inside Iran. The ignorant American right-wing are Amadinejad's and the right-wing mullahs best (and witless) supporters. Face it Richard, the team you supported, actually the team the electoral majority supported, has run our country right into the ditch with its hatred of and incompetence in government, ignorance of the World, arrogance, venality, and disrespect for the Constitution. It is clear that one large cluster f--- has occurred and the Bush/Neo-clown team is best put behind us asap. My guess is that most Americans want to get on with the work of cleaning up the mess, and prosecuting the theives and the criminals in the administration and their contractors. (There is after all, $16 billion still missing.) I think the best we can do now is to avoid the petty slanders of the three candidates for what will be one of the toughest first terms ever faced by an American President. Dave Ideology still sucks |
Why that sonofabitch...
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message . .. "Calif Bill" wrote in message m... Major reason for the huge healthcare costs Look dude, opinions are like assholes so you and BJ are entitled to yours but as someone once posted, you guys are not entitled to your own facts. There's a myriad number of reasons that compound the issues regarding the costs and access to health care services in this country but HMO's, defensive medicine, and lawsuits are not a major player in the total costs. And the average ER visit in my healthcare system and state is signifcantly less than a grand and the effing quality is pretty damn good, not perfect everywhere but much higher than being "ranked" #37. Now back to your regulary scheduled whatever y'all want to call this. Facts is facts and the fact is lawsuits add greatly to healthcare costs. Go to the ER and even a doctors office and they will run a lot of tests not really needed, unless you are there for some minor scrape on the arm. Those tests are run to prevent a suit that will cost at least $100k to defend. Whether or not the case is won or lost. I never complained about the healthcare quality. Is always been great. My mother is an RN. Licensed until this year and she is 93. So I have been around healthcare all my life and also part of my career was doing the electronic engineering and software for biomedical devices. The threat of suits adds lots. As well as the fact that the system is overused by the lowest income groups. You are MediCal or what ever it is called in the state you are in and they will go to the ER for everything. Those copays used to be really low at Kaiser and like my stepfather, there were those who would go to 2 different hospitals to get a blood pressure check. Did not trust the first hospital and since the hospitals were not far apart, he cost the system a lot more than he paid. And anybody who shows up at an ER will be treated! Is the law. They may be transferred to a county hospital later, but they will be treated. Legal, illegal does not matter. If they have no assets they will never pay. |
Why that sonofabitch...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m... So I have been around healthcare all my life i've been around electricity all my life, that doesn't mean I can tell the power company how to engineer a power plant. And anybody who shows up at an ER will be treated! Is the law. The law requires evaluation and stabilization of a life threatening condition. Stick to fishing dude. |
Why that sonofabitch...
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Why that sonofabitch...
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 06:13:52 -0400, "Wayne Knight"
wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message om... So I have been around healthcare all my life i've been around electricity all my life, that doesn't mean I can tell the power company how to engineer a power plant. And anybody who shows up at an ER will be treated! Is the law. The law requires evaluation and stabilization of a life threatening condition. Um, Wayne, I think he might be talking about "public"/taxpayer-supported hospitals. I don't know what the codes say in each area, but I can tell you that in each area of that which I am familiar, there is a county, city, or parish hospital that will and does treat people who can't pay for service. An sorta-related story about this - I'm not sure if it is done this way nationwide, or even anywhere but the hospital in question, but... I once received a bill from a hospital by mistake, the mistake being that I had not received any service from the hospital. I called their accounting department to explain/complain, and they actually told me they would need to get approval from some muckitymuck to cancel the bill. Oh, they said, they understood that I had not been in their hospital, but a bill is a bill. Uh-huh. So, OK, what's a few days. Well, it's as long as it takes to send me a corrected bill. Same alleged services, only about 1/3 the previous amount. I call back. Oh, says they, since you don't have insurance, the amount is less. Er, well, I do have insurance, but I still didn't receive these services. OH! YOU _DO_ HAVE INSURANCE?! Give us the policy info and we'll bill them! Er, look, perhaps you ought to let me speak to your boss. Long story shortened, I finally got someone who, admittedly after some minor threatening of legal action by me, took care of the situation. However, it came out in the various contacts that I had that they actually bill on some form of sliding scale, from $0 for folks who can't pay anything to a moderate amount to folks with no insurance (they never asked what I could afford or anything else) to a whole bunch to insurance companies. OTOH, I've seen health care all over the world, and the US is one of the few places I'd wish to be if I needed serious medical treatment, and if I had no money or insurance, the list would be even shorter, with the US at or near the top. TC, R Stick to fishing dude. |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:20:16 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: wrote: On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:58:18 -0700 (PDT), wrote: - Show quoted text - Actually I think they may elect Bush as the next Prez of Iram. He has earned it. After all he is responsible for vastly increasing the power and influence of Iran in the World. He attacked and weakened the Taliban, a sworn enemy of Iran. Bush then knocked out Saddam, another major enemy of Iran, and then put a Sheite government friendly to Iran in charge in Iraq for the first time in Iraq's history. Bush and his Neo-clowns have done more to make things comfy for the Iranian right- wingers and religous zelots than any Iranian politician could have. OK, how? Provide some actual data, as opposed to unsupported statements, that show that Iranian kooks, such as Ahmadinejad, have more power "in the World" (or even in Iran) or are "comfy." I'm not talking about press clippings that simply offer rhetoric about it, I'm talking about actual data. HTH, R Dave- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Assuming for a moment that you concede that the wars in Iraq, deposition of Saddam, and the Taliban 1.) occurered, and 2.) that these events helped Iran . . . . it is possible that you havn't noticed the increased significance of Iran, so. . . . . Well, let's see, Amadinejad did just recently make an invited State visit to Bahgdad, or so the media would have us believe, and damn if it didn't look like the Iraqis were cheering him. Seems the Sheite Prez of Iraq (Our allies?) invited him, and he came, went thru the streets with a minimal guard and said among other things that the US should get out. Compared to Bush's scared pussy behaviour on his recent visit I'd say the comparision was embarrassing. Of course the video that the whole world saw might not be real. Oh, and I'm probably naive to believe that the drubbing the Iranian backed Hezbellah administered to the Israeli IDF in Lebonon, despite all the cluster bomblets Bush rush shipped so the IDF could cover its tail-between-the-legs retreat with explosives specifically designed to be attractive to children. . . well I guess that whole fiasco was designed to show how weak Iran is, and the Israeli inquiry is probably a fake too. But to me it suggested that maybe our approaches in the Middle East need some reconsideration. And that Hamas thingy in Gaza, meaningless right? Then there are the various deployments of US forces around Iran, Oh and that ABM defence thingy. . . but these could just be pretending to be there to counter growing Iranian power, right? No Richard, your team has done much to remove Iran's enemies, enhance Iran's friends, and weaken the opposition reformers and liberals inside Iran. The ignorant American right-wing are Amadinejad's and the right-wing mullahs best (and witless) supporters. Face it Richard, the team you supported, actually the team the electoral majority supported, has run our country right into the ditch with its hatred of and incompetence in government, ignorance of the World, arrogance, venality, and disrespect for the Constitution. It is clear that one large cluster f--- has occurred and the Bush/Neo-clown team is best put behind us asap. My guess is that most Americans want to get on with the work of cleaning up the mess, and prosecuting the theives and the criminals in the administration and their contractors. (There is after all, $16 billion still missing.) I think the best we can do now is to avoid the petty slanders of the three candidates for what will be one of the toughest first terms ever faced by an American President. Translation: "Nope, I have nothing substantive whatsoever...but anti-Bush stuff, I got LOTS of that..." LOL !! None so blind as those who won't see. And you and the Sarge are as blind as they come...blinded by hate is no way to win a fight...or a war... And what's worse is that warmongering old feeb McCain with the help of his creepy twit boyfriend Lieberman will continue to throw American lives and money at the cluster**** if we're so stupid as to elect McCain POTUS. Oh, the "war" in Iraq is certainly has all the makings of a cluster**** at the present, but that is a completely different subject. HTH, R |
Why that sonofabitch...
wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote: wrote: Translation: "Nope, I have nothing substantive whatsoever...but anti-Bush stuff, I got LOTS of that..." LOL !! None so blind as those who won't see. And you and the Sarge are as blind as they come...blinded by hate is no way to win a fight...or a war... And what's worse is that warmongering old feeb McCain with the help of his creepy twit boyfriend Lieberman will continue to throw American lives and money at the cluster**** if we're so stupid as to elect McCain POTUS. Oh, the "war" in Iraq is certainly has all the makings of a cluster**** at the present, but that is a completely different subject. If you don't think our invasion of Iraq has strengthened Iran's influence and significance in their part of the world then you just haven't been paying attention. Perhaps you should have a Saudi explain it to you. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:55:02 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: wrote: Ken Fortenberry wrote: wrote: Translation: "Nope, I have nothing substantive whatsoever...but anti-Bush stuff, I got LOTS of that..." LOL !! None so blind as those who won't see. And you and the Sarge are as blind as they come...blinded by hate is no way to win a fight...or a war... And what's worse is that warmongering old feeb McCain with the help of his creepy twit boyfriend Lieberman will continue to throw American lives and money at the cluster**** if we're so stupid as to elect McCain POTUS. Oh, the "war" in Iraq is certainly has all the makings of a cluster**** at the present, but that is a completely different subject. If you don't think our invasion of Iraq has strengthened Iran's influence and significance in their part of the world then you just haven't been paying attention. "Iranian" influence hasn't changed one bit - the loons currently in charge do have another thing to use in their attempt to stoke up some promise of Islamic world dominance to gullible followers, but they would have found something, even if they simply had to make it up. I'd offer that the average Iranian, aside from the religious zealots, was probably glad to see Saddam go, and wishes Khamenei, his pet monkey, and the rest of the, er, "leadership" would do likewise... Perhaps you should have a Saudi explain it to you. To which one in particular are you referring? IAC, what makes you think I haven't talked with a number of folks from the region? And might I suggest you talk to an Iranian reporter...but you better hurry before they all are shot... HTH, R |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Apr 4, 5:11*am, wrote:
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:58:18 -0700 (PDT), wrote: - Show quoted text - Actually I think they may elect Bush as the next Prez of Iram. He has earned it. After all he is responsible for vastly increasing the power and influence of Iran in the World. He attacked and weakened the Taliban, a sworn enemy of Iran. Bush then knocked out Saddam, another major enemy of Iran, and then put a Sheite government friendly to Iran in charge in Iraq for the first time in Iraq's history. Bush and his Neo-clowns have done more to make things comfy for the Iranian right- wingers and religous zelots than any Iranian politician could have. OK, how? *Provide some actual data, as opposed to unsupported statements, that show that Iranian kooks, such as Ahmadinejad, have more power "in the World" (or even in Iran) or are "comfy." *I'm not talking about press clippings that simply offer rhetoric about it, I'm talking about actual data. HTH, R Dave- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Assuming for a moment that you concede that the wars in Iraq, deposition of Saddam, and the Taliban 1.) occurered, and 2.) that these events helped Iran . . . . it is possible that you havn't noticed the increased significance of Iran, so. . . . . Well, let's see, Amadinejad did just recently make an invited State visit to Bahgdad, or so the media would have us believe, and damn if it didn't look like the Iraqis were cheering him. Seems the Sheite Prez of Iraq (Our allies?) invited him, and he came, went thru the streets with a minimal guard and said among other things that the US should get out. Compared to Bush's scared pussy behaviour on his recent visit I'd say the comparision was embarrassing. Of course the video that the whole world saw might not be real. Oh, and I'm probably naive to believe that the drubbing the Iranian backed Hezbellah administered to the Israeli IDF in Lebonon, despite all the cluster bomblets Bush rush shipped so the IDF could cover its tail-between-the-legs retreat with explosives specifically designed to be attractive to children. . . well I guess that whole fiasco was designed to show how weak Iran is, and the Israeli inquiry is probably a fake too. But to me it suggested that maybe our approaches in the Middle East need some reconsideration. And that Hamas thingy in Gaza, meaningless right? Then there are the various deployments of US forces around Iran, Oh and that ABM defence thingy. . . but these could just be pretending to be there to counter growing Iranian power, right? No Richard, your team has done much to remove Iran's enemies, enhance Iran's friends, and weaken the opposition reformers and liberals inside Iran. The ignorant American right-wing are Amadinejad's and the right-wing mullahs best (and witless) supporters. Face it Richard, the team you supported, actually the team the electoral majority supported, has run our country right into the ditch with its hatred of and incompetence in government, ignorance of the World, arrogance, venality, and disrespect for the Constitution. It is clear that one large cluster f--- has occurred and the Bush/Neo-clown team is best put behind us asap. My guess is that most Americans want to get on with the work of cleaning up the mess, and prosecuting the theives and the criminals in the administration and their contractors. (There is after all, $16 billion still missing.) I think the best we can do now is to avoid the petty slanders of the three candidates for what will be one of the toughest first terms ever faced by an American President. Translation: "Nope, I have nothing substantive whatsoever...but anti-Bush stuff, I got LOTS of that..." Dave Ideology still sucks Well, any but yours, anyway... HTH, R- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Stop, stop,stop. You don't have to defend these clowns. At least in the second election he did win it. The electoral majority made the same mistake as you. And got screwed. But it is time to learn from what happened, and get down to fixing the mess. And pretending its not a big mess will not get it fixed. And that is what we have to do . . . as united as we can be whoever is President. You owe these clowns no loyality. To the extent that you hold conservative principles, the Bushies/Neo clowns betrayed you, at least in terms of civil liberties, individual rights, and big deficit spending, Ask any real conservative. Even if you supported the War, or felt once we were in it the Bushies deserved your support, their execution and war profiteering has been inexcusable. (They fired every general who would not drink the Koolaide, and failed even in practical tasks like expediciously up-armoring our military transport. The theives deserve a bullet, but unfortunately that isn't going to happen.) There are enough honest Republicans left at the State, local and congressional level for people of that persuasion to vote their DNA. (On the right day I could even donate $ to folks like Nebraska's Chuck). But it is important for folks not to be taken in again by the Dodsons (Christian nutbag leader), Norquists ( Right-wing anarchist/ Trotskyist), and Fromne (Non-US citizen/propagandist/Zionist) who are telling people like you to sabatoge any post Bush President (McCain, Clinton or Obama) so that they can get back in power 9 years from now. A sober look at the mess we are in, some basic degree of non-partisan unity and a focus of our energies and talents on the problems at hand are what is required of us at this point in our national history. Dave Ideology still sucks |
Why that sonofabitch...
wrote in message ... Um, Wayne, I think he might be talking about "public"/taxpayer-supported hospitals. He was referencing the "Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act"-EMTALA. It requires a patient be given a screening examination and treatment for life threatening situations before they are transferred or discharged. It doesn't entitle one to carte blanche services tho some think it does. Yes, there are certain states/counties/cities with taxpayer supported facilities but even they have to bill something and EMTALA applies to them. And the industry has tried to deal with the cost of the ininsured issue in many different ways, including sliding payment scales. We charge the same rates but certain payers, including government payers often pay less than the full rate and we accept those payments as payment in full. Some of it is legislated, some is contracted. This has led to a convulted pricing system and left self pay patients paying the entire charge because they had no contract to get a discount. This system has led to numerous complaints and law suits. It is but one part of the problem in getting at a solution for the total health care cost. Generally speaking, our charges don't have crap to do with actual costs but more to do with cost shifting and revenue enhancement challenges amongst the myriad number of payment schemes out there. There are a bunch of pros and cons for a single payor system, but IMO the biggest pro is that it would end the constant rate setting game we play. You ran across a grossly mismanaged unengaged hospital business office. I hope I never cross their path. |
Why that sonofabitch...
wrote in message ... I don't know what the codes say in each area, but I can tell you that in each area of that which I am familiar, there is a county, city, or parish hospital that will and does treat people who can't pay for service. in this area, ALL of the Hospitals are required to do so. We have no system in PA that separates 'public' from 'private' hospitals. Tom |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 23:34:38 -0400, "Wayne Knight"
wrote: wrote in message .. . Um, Wayne, I think he might be talking about "public"/taxpayer-supported hospitals. He was referencing the "Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act"-EMTALA. It requires a patient be given a screening examination and treatment for life threatening situations before they are transferred or discharged. It doesn't entitle one to carte blanche services tho some think it does. I can't speak for areas/hospitals that I don't know, but I can tell you that _all_ the areas that I do know have "free" county/parish/city taxpayer-supported hospitals (via "hospital district" prop tax, among other ways) where people get treatment for things that are in no way "emergencies" or even life-threatening (colds, sprains, minor cuts and gashes, etc.). How much/what kind of treatment versus one with full insurance or cash in hand, how it may be billed/charged off/accounted-for/whatever, etc. are things that I don't know. Yes, there are certain states/counties/cities with taxpayer supported facilities but even they have to bill something and EMTALA applies to them. Even if it isn't an emergency or labor? I thought that is what all the "caids," etc., were for(?) TC, R |
Why that sonofabitch...
wrote in message ... Even if it isn't an emergency or labor? I thought that is what all the "caids," etc., were for(?) Every state has different Medicaid qualifications and if one is not a minor child or a woman with children it can often be very hard to qualify for it in places like Indiana and south of the Mason Dixon line. Louisiana does have it state run charity hospitals but outside of cities with places like Grady in Atlanta, the uninsured and poor are dependent upon the policies of the particular facility. There's a big debate gathering steam about "non-profit" hospitals and the amount of charity care we provide to support the tax exemption vis a vis the value of the exemption and the "excess revenues" we have as an industry. Last Friday's WSJ had a very interesting article on the subject. |
Why that sonofabitch...
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message . .. "Calif Bill" wrote in message m... So I have been around healthcare all my life i've been around electricity all my life, that doesn't mean I can tell the power company how to engineer a power plant. And anybody who shows up at an ER will be treated! Is the law. The law requires evaluation and stabilization of a life threatening condition. Stick to fishing dude. I can also tell the power company how to engineer their plant. And everybody will be treated. If you are not, because they thought you had a minor cold and went outside and dropped dead, they would owe millions. Being the EE and software guy on Biomedical devices, I know all about the insurance costs and how much paperwork goes into covering your ass. |
Why that sonofabitch...
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message . .. wrote in message ... Even if it isn't an emergency or labor? I thought that is what all the "caids," etc., were for(?) Every state has different Medicaid qualifications and if one is not a minor child or a woman with children it can often be very hard to qualify for it in places like Indiana and south of the Mason Dixon line. Louisiana does have it state run charity hospitals but outside of cities with places like Grady in Atlanta, the uninsured and poor are dependent upon the policies of the particular facility. There's a big debate gathering steam about "non-profit" hospitals and the amount of charity care we provide to support the tax exemption vis a vis the value of the exemption and the "excess revenues" we have as an industry. Last Friday's WSJ had a very interesting article on the subject. And if you have life threatening injuries, they will stabilize you and if possible send you off to the county hospital when safe, but all will treat you first and then send you to the next facility. Does not have to be life threatening, as they do not know if it is or is not at first guess. |
Why that sonofabitch...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message m... ...Being the EE and software guy on Biomedical devices, I know all about the insurance costs and how much paperwork goes into covering your ass. Well.....gosh.....yeah. How could it be otherwise? Your mistake is simply paying attention to Mr. Knight's rambling musings on things hospitalish. I mean, a massive collection of fly fishing gear hardly matches your impressive credentials......right? Wolfgang who can hardly express his joy at FINALLY having someone in this place qualified to speak with authority on something or other. |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 20:59:16 -0400, "Wayne Knight"
wrote: wrote in message .. . Even if it isn't an emergency or labor? I thought that is what all the "caids," etc., were for(?) Every state has different Medicaid qualifications and if one is not a minor child or a woman with children it can often be very hard to qualify for it in places like Indiana and south of the Mason Dixon line. Louisiana does have it state run charity hospitals but outside of cities with places like Grady in Atlanta, the uninsured and poor are dependent upon the policies of the particular facility. There's a big debate gathering steam about "non-profit" hospitals and the amount of charity care we provide to support the tax exemption vis a vis the value of the exemption and the "excess revenues" we have as an industry. Last Friday's WSJ had a very interesting article on the subject. Um, unless Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, and Florida moved north of the MD in the last 24 hours, it isn't hard for anyone to get treatment in them for anything, albeit not at any hospital they might wish - all have various forms of "charity care," at least in some form and all general locations of which I am familiar. TC, R |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Apr 9, 1:08*am, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message I know all about the insurance costs and how much paperwork goes into covering your ass Look Mr. Bill. I have been in the healthcare industry since 1978 and in the financial/leadership side of it since 1986. I am currently responsible for six hospitals spread accross the state of Indiana. You might know something about electrical engineering but you just think you know about healthcare. Your original premise was that lawsuits and HMO were primarily responsible for the cost of care. It's a common theme and an incorrect one at that. Have a nice day. |
Why that sonofabitch...
On Apr 9, 10:02*am, wrote:
Um, unless Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, and Florida moved north of the MD in the last 24 hours, it isn't hard for anyone to get treatment in them for anything, albeit not at any hospital they might wish - all have various forms of "charity care," at least in some form and all general locations of which I am familiar. You asked about "the caids." Giving something away due to a charity policy and medicaid are two different issues. There are hospitals all around this country that provide emergent and non emergent care for people without the resources to get it otherwise. Not only is it a question of being able to pay for it, it is also a matter of having access to care and unfortunately the hospital ER has become the community safety net. While there remains a number of state/county/ city/ run "charity" hospitals the number of these facilities gets lower every year due to their high costs. |
Why that sonofabitch...
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message ... On Apr 9, 1:08 am, "Calif Bill" wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message I know all about the insurance costs and how much paperwork goes into covering your ass Look Mr. Bill. I have been in the healthcare industry since 1978 and in the financial/leadership side of it since 1986. I am currently responsible for six hospitals spread accross the state of Indiana. You might know something about electrical engineering but you just think you know about healthcare. Your original premise was that lawsuits and HMO were primarily responsible for the cost of care. It's a common theme and an incorrect one at that. Have a nice day. Maybe the hospitals would not be in such bad shape if they had people in the financial/leadership side of it since 1986 that had any common sense. |
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