knotted leader/tippet help
 

I thought I'd interject a little fly fishing topic.

After turning my nice new tapered leader into a much shorter version due to
wind knots, I've learned how to tie the brutal blood knot, which I suspect
was named after legions of anglers who blew the corresponding vessel while
trying to tie the damn thing. Anyway, I've lost several feet off my
formerly 4X taper and am now up to a 2X. A couple questions:

Q. Is it practical to drop a couple mils at a time on an all-knot leaders
or should it always be 1 mil at a time?

Q. What are good "rule of thumb" lengths for each size from butt to tippet
for a med trout stream? I've seen some hair-raising equations, but am not
interested in getting quite that fanatical at this point.

Q. I've been buying 20 yd Trilene XL leader spools at $1.50 per, a great
price. But, since I'm no doubt going to be breaking these suckers off
wholesale, forever, would it be better to invest in Trilene fishing line?
IOW, is it the same stuff? I have a spool of .009 XL fishing line which I
used to extend out my shortened taper line. Is this ok?

nb

knotted leader/tippet help
 

notbob wrote:
I thought I'd interject a little fly fishing topic.

After turning my nice new tapered leader into a much shorter version due to
wind knots, I've learned how to tie the brutal blood knot, which I suspect
was named after legions of anglers who blew the corresponding vessel while
trying to tie the damn thing.

Learn to tie a surgeon's knot.

http://www.killroys.com/knots/surgeon.htm

It's stronger than a blood knot, faster and easier to tie, and works far
better for lines of very different diameters.

Not quite a pretty , though.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"notbob" wrote in message
...
I thought I'd interject a little fly fishing topic.

After turning my nice new tapered leader into a much shorter version due
to
wind knots, I've learned how to tie the brutal blood knot, which I suspect
was named after legions of anglers who blew the corresponding vessel while
trying to tie the damn thing. Anyway, I've lost several feet off my
formerly 4X taper and am now up to a 2X. A couple questions:

Q. Is it practical to drop a couple mils at a time on an all-knot leaders
or should it always be 1 mil at a time?

Yes, it's practical. In fact, it would be difficult to avoid.....and
there's no reason to.

Q. What are good "rule of thumb" lengths for each size from butt to tippet
for a med trout stream? I've seen some hair-raising equations, but am not
interested in getting quite that fanatical at this point.

I long ago encountered a simple formula that has worked very well for me.
Start with about thirty inches on 30 lb. test nylon mono. Add increasingly
smaller diameter line segments (the price size or strength doesn't really
matter all that much but 20 lb., 15, 12, 10, 6 works nicely). Each segment
should be 2/3 the length of the previous one until you get down to 10 inches
or so. From there, the remaining segments should each be 10 inches. Then
just add tippet.

Q. I've been buying 20 yd Trilene XL leader spools at $1.50 per, a great
price. But, since I'm no doubt going to be breaking these suckers off
wholesale, forever, would it be better to invest in Trilene fishing line?
IOW, is it the same stuff? I have a spool of .009 XL fishing line which I
used to extend out my shortened taper line. Is this ok?

I've always used the cheapest crap I could find at K-Mart for building the
leaders. Works fine.

Tippet is another matter.

Wolfgang

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

...the price size...

More precisely, that should read "precise size".

Wolfgang

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On 2008-04-15, Wolfgang wrote:

Tippet is another matter.

First, How so? Second, was the tippet on my original taper somehow
different than the rest of the leader or is a tapered leader just that and
I was supposed to add a tippet?

nb

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2008-04-15, Wolfgang wrote:

Tippet is another matter.

First, How so?

Your choice of tippet will depend on more than simple diameter or strength.
Not that these considerations should be ignored, but other factors also come
into play. Stiffness versus limpness, memory, some people think color
matters.

Second, was the tippet on my original taper somehow
different than the rest of the leader or is a tapered leader just that and
I was supposed to add a tippet?

In principle, the skinny end of a knotless tapered leader IS the tippet.
Generally though, when people speak of tippet they refer to added material.
You can fish for a while with the factory end of the leader as tippet but
you'll quickly notice that it gets thicker and stiffer with each change of
bug. Since most commercial tapered leaders are fairly to very short anyway,
you might as well save time (and generally improve performance) by snipping
off a few inches on the leader straight out of the package.....it's quite
likely weaker than tippet of the same diameter anyway, and it is often
considerably out of round.....and tying in a suitable amount of the tippet
material.

Regardless of whether you use knotless leaders or tie your own, you get just
so many rebuilds before you have to start a new one. Typically, I get more
out of home made leaders, and they perform better. Lots cheaper too.

Wolfgang

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"rw" wrote in message
m...

Learn to tie a surgeon's knot.

http://www.killroys.com/knots/surgeon.htm

It's stronger than a blood knot, faster and easier to tie, and works far
better for lines of very different diameters.

Not quite a pretty , though.

1. Prior experience with the surgeon's knot is
needed before you can get the link lengths anywhere
near specifications: but this can be learned.
2. When I tie with surgeon's knots the leader is
not straight, but deviates at each knot by 20+ degrees.
Is this RW's "non-prettiness" or just bad tying technique?

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:41:37 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

"rw" wrote in message
om...

Learn to tie a surgeon's knot.

http://www.killroys.com/knots/surgeon.htm

It's stronger than a blood knot, faster and easier to tie, and works far
better for lines of very different diameters.

Not quite a pretty , though.

1. Prior experience with the surgeon's knot is
needed before you can get the link lengths anywhere
near specifications: but this can be learned.
2. When I tie with surgeon's knots the leader is
not straight, but deviates at each knot by 20+ degrees.
Is this RW's "non-prettiness" or just bad tying technique?

The "unstraightness" is intrinsic to a double-surgeons knot.
A triple-surgeons knot, otoh, is straight...and prettier, I suppose...

/daytripper

knotted leader/tippet help
 

Don Phillipson wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...


Learn to tie a surgeon's knot.

http://www.killroys.com/knots/surgeon.htm

It's stronger than a blood knot, faster and easier to tie, and works far
better for lines of very different diameters.

Not quite a pretty , though.


1. Prior experience with the surgeon's knot is
needed before you can get the link lengths anywhere
near specifications: but this can be learned.
2. When I tie with surgeon's knots the leader is
not straight, but deviates at each knot by 20+ degrees.
Is this RW's "non-prettiness" or just bad tying technique?

As an ex-blood-knot guy this used to bother me a lot. After I got better
at tying the surgeon's it became less of a problem. I don't think my
surgeon's knots make anywhere near a 20 degree angle, but they aren't as
true as blood knots.

I use the blood knot in heavy mono where it's easy to tie.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

knotted leader/tippet help
 

daytripper wrote:

The "unstraightness" is intrinsic to a double-surgeons knot.
A triple-surgeons knot, otoh, is straight...and prettier, I suppose...

I agree that the triple surgeon's is better, but I'm usually in too much
of a hurry. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:53:43 -0700, rw
wrote:

daytripper wrote:

The "unstraightness" is intrinsic to a double-surgeons knot.
A triple-surgeons knot, otoh, is straight...and prettier, I suppose...

I agree that the triple surgeon's is better, but I'm usually in too much
of a hurry. :-)

Well, I didn't say the triple was "better" - though I conceded it could be
"prettier" ;-) It is stronger, for sure, but not by a whole heck of a lot, if
one ties their doubles correctly.

I use the double for almost all freshwater leaders - the exception being heavy
leaders for fishing river smallies, or fishing the Salmon River in the fall
for some heavy-weight salmon and steelies. For sal****er leaders I use the
stronger triple, as there's no concern about gathering moss and such - or
having trout keep hitting the damned knots ;-)

/daytripper (tomorrow might just be my first time out this year! :-)

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"notbob" wrote



, I've lost several feet off my
formerly 4X taper and am now up to a 2X. A couple questions:



two words .... tippet rings

used properly they will all but eliminate this gradual loss of leader and
the need to 're-build'



But,
...... if you'd rather continue to suffer ( along with the majority of fly
fishers that refuse to try these rings :-) ....




......you can jump several sizes and still get a good knot .... using either
a surgeons knot or Gary Borgers 5/7 modification on a blood knot ... Borger
says you can drop down by 60% at each step and it seems to work, for me,
although 'my' leaders ( when I'm masochistic enough to build my own ) have
big jumps in the butt area and smaller ones nearer to the tippet.

.........There are a ton of leader formulas out there ... google, surf, use
that broadband


..........I like Maxima ( the brown stuff ) for most of the leader, RIO for
the tippet ... each part of a leader ( butt, taper, tippet ) has differing
function .... pick materials to suit


but I SUGGEST

buy a RIO 3X leader ... tie on a tippet ring with one of the '100%' knots
( can't remember the name of the one I use )


.... now tie any tippet from 3X to 6X directly to the ring ... if you must
use 7x, either start with a 5X RIO leader and a ring or tie first some 5X
then your 7X to the ring on your 3X ... IF you are throwing streamers, tie
the ring onto a 0X or 1X leader and add tippet to suit your fly .... etc etc
..... I usually use loop to loop to attach leader to line ( except for my
spring creek rod and I always use the same leader on it ) rw, and others
will be along soon to tell you why loop to loop is only for fools l( like
the people at RIO and SA tha now built the loops into their lines :-)

tying your own leaders is a PIA and IMHO best reserved for later in your
fishing career ... master the easy **** first ( and it's not the knoting
that's difficult, it's the formula to choose and the 'why' of same ... you
can't choose a formula to suit you and your fishing until you get decent at
casting and choose a fishing style )


Note: this is the last time I'll suggest you try tippet rings ... you can
lead a notbob to the answer but you can't make him open his eyes and see it
G

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On 2008-04-15, daytripper wrote:

The "unstraightness" is intrinsic to a double-surgeons knot.
A triple-surgeons knot, otoh, is straight...and prettier, I suppose...

Not in my experience. I just went in a tied half dozen double-surgeons and
half dozen triples. They both angle off hideously, the double often at 45
deg. No, I worked too damn hard to learn that dang blood clot of a knot and I
shall not be deprived! Besides, it's purty. ;)

nb

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"Larry L" wrote

( can't remember the name of the one I use )



Remembered .... Pitzen knot .... give it a try

knotted leader/tippet help
 

notbob wrote:
On 2008-04-15, daytripper wrote:


The "unstraightness" is intrinsic to a double-surgeons knot.
A triple-surgeons knot, otoh, is straight...and prettier, I suppose...


Not in my experience. I just went in a tied half dozen double-surgeons and
half dozen triples. They both angle off hideously, the double often at 45
deg. No, I worked too damn hard to learn that dang blood clot of a knot and I
shall not be deprived! Besides, it's purty. ;)

nb

Try pulling the tag ends and the running ends as uniformly and smoothly
as possible. You want the two loops to snug down simultaneously and
uniformly. If you don't do this, the knot will not only be ugly, but weak.

It's very easy to screw up a surgeon's knot while you're tightening it.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On 2008-04-15, notbob wrote:

Q. Is it practical to drop a couple mils at a time on an all-knot leaders
or should it always be 1 mil at a time?

I just ran across a possible answer to this question. To quote:

"The general rule of thumb is that you can safely skip a single "X" size
when joining monofilament sizes greater than or equal to 4X. When joining
sizes smaller than 4X, you should not skip any sizes. In other words, 4X
would be tied to 5X which would be tied to 6X and so on (assuming, of
course, you want a 6X tippet). Going directly from 4X to 6X is asking for
trouble!"

http://www.flyfishingjacksonhole.com...blood_knot.htm

Although this page IS about blood knots, He doesn't clarify as to whether
this is a good rule of thumb for leader/tippets in general or only in
reference to using blood knots. Comments?

nb

nb

knotted leader/tippet help
 

notbob wrote:
On 2008-04-15, notbob wrote:

Q. Is it practical to drop a couple mils at a time on an all-knot leaders
or should it always be 1 mil at a time?


I just ran across a possible answer to this question. To quote:

"The general rule of thumb is that you can safely skip a single "X" size
when joining monofilament sizes greater than or equal to 4X. When joining
sizes smaller than 4X, you should not skip any sizes. In other words, 4X
would be tied to 5X which would be tied to 6X and so on (assuming, of
course, you want a 6X tippet). Going directly from 4X to 6X is asking for
trouble!"

http://www.flyfishingjacksonhole.com...blood_knot.htm

Although this page IS about blood knots, He doesn't clarify as to whether
this is a good rule of thumb for leader/tippets in general or only in
reference to using blood knots. Comments?

nb

nb

I think you're obsessing about this. :-)

Tying 4x to 6x, or 3x to 5x (more common in my case), is just fine.

Quite often I'll clip my leader way back and tie on a long section 4x or
5x for low-drag, deep nymphing. If I see fish rising I'll tie a dry fly
onto the weird, unbalanced leader and it turns over well enough.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On 2008-04-15, rw wrote:

I think you're obsessing about this. :-)

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought that's what flyfishing (is it one or two?) is all
about. ;)

Tying 4x to 6x, or 3x to 5x (more common in my case), is just fine.

Thank you.

nb

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:29:12 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2008-04-15, daytripper wrote:

The "unstraightness" is intrinsic to a double-surgeons knot.
A triple-surgeons knot, otoh, is straight...and prettier, I suppose...

Not in my experience. I just went in a tied half dozen double-surgeons and
half dozen triples. They both angle off hideously, the double often at 45
deg. No, I worked too damn hard to learn that dang blood clot of a knot and I
shall not be deprived! Besides, it's purty. ;)

nb

Well...you are, in fact, very very "new" at this stuff...so your experience
isn't surprising. Practice practice practice.

Also, fwiw, if you ever fish with a guide and start that blood-knot thing on
the stream, you're likely gonna get an earful and a half, as a guide wants his
client to be fishing, not taking forever to tie knots ;-)

/daytripper

knotted leader/tippet help
 

notbob wrote:
On 2008-04-15, rw wrote:


I think you're obsessing about this. :-)


Oh, I'm sorry. I thought that's what flyfishing (is it one or two?) is all
about. ;)

That's your stereotype of flyfishing.

It can be a very easy-going pastime at its best.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

knotted leader/tippet help
 

You're just going to argue for the surgeon's and against the blood no
matter what. Yawn. You're boring.

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:47:12 -0400, "jeffc" wrote:

...but look up Lefty Kreh's "heavy limp butt"...

Oh, Lordy...well, scratch him from any talks at YOUR ff'ing club...

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On Apr 15, 9:53*pm, "jeffc" wrote:
"notbob" wrote in message

...

"The general rule of thumb is that you can safely skip a single "X" size
when joining monofilament sizes greater than or equal to 4X. When joining
sizes smaller than 4X, you should not skip any sizes. In other words, 4X
would be tied to 5X which would be tied to 6X and so on (assuming, of
course, you want a 6X tippet). Going directly from 4X to 6X is asking for
trouble!"

http://www.flyfishingjacksonhole.com...blood_knot.htm

Although this page IS about blood knots, He doesn't clarify as to whether
this is a good rule of thumb for leader/tippets in general or only in
reference to using blood knots. *Comments?

It's more important for blood knots. *For surgeon's knots differing
diameters do fine.

I've been using blood knots for tying leaders since i started fly
fishing in 1952. I have no problem tying them, they perform well for
me, and I routinely drop section diameters by 2X down to 6X.

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2008-04-15, daytripper wrote:

The "unstraightness" is intrinsic to a double-surgeons knot.
A triple-surgeons knot, otoh, is straight...and prettier, I suppose...

Not in my experience. I just went in a tied half dozen double-surgeons
and
half dozen triples. They both angle off hideously, the double often at 45
deg.

Sounds like you're doing it wrong. In preparing to tie this knot correctly
the leader and the tippet are aligned as they should be when finished
(diagram a.). The kind of angles you describe suggest that you've got the
tippet reversed, which is to say that it is parallel to and along side the
leader for its entire length (diagram b.).

a.

line ___________________________
tippet ________________

b.

line _____________________________
tippet _________________


The surgeon's knot is simply an overhand knot with two or more turns on two
strands. Done correctly, starting at the position in a. above, the
overlapped portions of both strands are looped and then the end of the
leader and the entire tippet is wrapped the desired number or times through
the loop. This will always result in a straight line as long as the knot is
properly tightened. Starting as in b., the loop is formed as before, where
the strands overlap at the right end, but here, obviously, the entire tippet
is not passed through the loop in successive turns. This will always result
in a tight angle bewtween the two strands when finished. In both cases, the
tippet tends to point in the same direction it did at the start.

No, I worked too damn hard to learn that dang blood clot of a knot and I
shall not be deprived! Besides, it's purty. ;)

The surgeon's knot is easier and better. In the blood knot, the tag ends
come out from the center of the knot at right angles. When snipped off they
leave little stubs that are remarkable effective at snagging whatever they
come into contact with.....unless snipped VERY close......in which case the
knot may unravel and the tags are not held very tightly. In the surgeon's
knot, the tag ends protrude from the knot parallel and very close to the
working strands. They are tightly held by the body of the knot. Snipping
them very close is safe and leaves the nub along the leader and tippet.

With a bit of practice, the surgeon's knot can be tied reliably in thirty
seconds or less. The end of a hemostat makes pulling the strands through
the loop fast and easy.

Good luck.

Wolfgang

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2008-04-15, notbob wrote:

Q. Is it practical to drop a couple mils at a time on an all-knot
leaders
or should it always be 1 mil at a time?

I just ran across a possible answer to this question. To quote:

"The general rule of thumb is that you can safely skip a single "X" size
when joining monofilament sizes greater than or equal to 4X. When joining
sizes smaller than 4X, you should not skip any sizes. In other words, 4X
would be tied to 5X which would be tied to 6X and so on (assuming, of
course, you want a 6X tippet). Going directly from 4X to 6X is asking for
trouble!"

http://www.flyfishingjacksonhole.com...blood_knot.htm

Although this page IS about blood knots, He doesn't clarify as to whether
this is a good rule of thumb for leader/tippets in general or only in
reference to using blood knots. Comments?

Forget you ever heard of blood knots.

Wolfgang

knotted leader/tippet help
 

George Adams wrote:

I've been using blood knots for tying leaders since i started fly
fishing in 1952. I have no problem tying them, they perform well for
me, and I routinely drop section diameters by 2X down to 6X.

I use blood knots except for the leader to tippet connection
where I'll use a double surgeons. I like this setup because
the double surgeons is the weak link and if I break off that's
where I want it to happen.

I've switched to rings for my muskie and bass leaders but I'm
too much of a tweed-dressed, dries upstream only kinda guy to
use them on my trout leaders. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On 2008-04-16, rw wrote:

That's your stereotype of flyfishing.

No, that's my joke about the stereotype of flyfishing.

nb

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:48:43 -0700, rw
wrote:

notbob wrote:
On 2008-04-15, rw wrote:


I think you're obsessing about this. :-)


Oh, I'm sorry. I thought that's what flyfishing (is it one or two?) is all
about. ;)

That's your stereotype of flyfishing.

It can be a very easy-going pastime at its best.

Well, until some wiseacre disputes your regurgitation of what the
Forestry Service website says...then, oh, boy, it's praise the Lord and
pass the ammunit...oh, wait, no, wrong thread...it's a dick-slamming
contest in which one of the contestants is using a sock...again...

HTH,
R

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote


I've switched to rings for my muskie and bass leaders but I'm
too much of a tweed-dressed, dries upstream only kinda guy to
use them on my trout leaders. ;-)



they say the admission is the first step G

get the very tiny ones .. 4s I believe in Roman Moser brand ... and nobody
but you will ever know you're using them :-) ... use a Pitzen to attach
the ring and clinch ( or improved ) to attach tippet and fly and you'll
almost never lose a ring ... very similar to your
" like this setup because
the double surgeons is the weak link and if I break off that's
where I want it to happen."

..... this is doubly true because the mono on the leader side of the ring can
be several sizes bigger than the tippet and still have a very nice casting
leader

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On 2008-04-16, Wolfgang wrote:

(diagram a.). The kind of angles you describe suggest that you've got the
tippet reversed.....

a.

line ___________________________
tippet ________________


Those few lines make no sense, whatsoever, but nevermind.

I went back and took a more methodical approach to the surgeon's knot. This
time I applied plenty of notbob's gen-u-whine fly-ty spit and made sure I
was tightening evenly. Voila! ....and very little deviation off stright.
This is no doubt the more practical knot for stream-side, but I'll be damned
if I'll let 3 days of bloody practice go to waste and will probably use
blood knots for pre-tied lead/tips. Besides, I found a Stu Apte improved
blood knot that looks perfect for further self abuse.

nb

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"notbob" wrote


blood knots for pre-tied lead/tips. Besides, I found a Stu Apte improved
blood knot that looks perfect for further self abuse.




I must say, not, that you seem nearly destined to become a diehard indicator
nymph fisherman ... a discipline ideal for those with masochism running in
their system

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2008-04-16, Wolfgang wrote:

(diagram a.). The kind of angles you describe suggest that you've got
the
tippet reversed.....

a.

line ___________________________
tippet ________________


Those few lines make no sense, whatsoever, but nevermind.

O.k. Try this then......kiss my ass.

I went back and took a more methodical approach to the surgeon's knot.
This
time I applied plenty of notbob's gen-u-whine fly-ty spit and made sure I
was tightening evenly. Voila! ....and very little deviation off stright.
This is no doubt the more practical knot for stream-side, but I'll be
damned
if I'll let 3 days of bloody practice go to waste and will probably use
blood knots for pre-tied lead/tips. Besides, I found a Stu Apte improved
blood knot that looks perfect for further self abuse.

Yeah, have fun.

Wolfgang

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:53:17 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:

"notbob" wrote


blood knots for pre-tied lead/tips. Besides, I found a Stu Apte improved
blood knot that looks perfect for further self abuse.

I must say, not, that you seem nearly destined to become a diehard indicator
nymph fisherman ... a discipline ideal for those with masochism running in
their system

The ideal discipline for masochists is nymphing *without* an indicator...

/daytripper (not a masochist ;-)

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On Apr 15, 8:04 pm, wrote:
You're just going to argue for the surgeon's and against the blood no
matter what. Yawn. You're boring.

Oh man, _that_ made me laugh good. Thanks.

Jon.

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On 2008-04-16, Wolfgang wrote:

O.k. Try this then......kiss my ass.

Yeah, have fun.

Boy, it's all or nothing with this group. :|

Let's see, so far:

Hispanics = NO!
Gay jokes = yes
Q's from noobs = yes
Humor from noobs = no

Have you folks considered a roff FAQ?

nb

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"notbob" wrote in message
.. .
On 2008-04-16, Wolfgang wrote:

O.k. Try this then......kiss my ass.

Yeah, have fun.

Boy, it's all or nothing with this group. :|

Let's see, so far:

Hispanics = NO!
Gay jokes = yes
Q's from noobs = yes
Humor from noobs = no

Have you folks considered a roff FAQ?

Not to put too fine a point on it but questions and/or pronouncements
concerning consideration would appear to be a bit out of your depth. Best
to stick to observations along the "golly heck these knot thingies sure are
tough" line for now.

Wolfgang

knotted leader/tippet help
 

On 2008-04-16, Wolfgang wrote:

Not to put too fine a point on it but questions and/or pronouncements
concerning consideration would appear to be a bit out of your depth. Best
to stick to observations along the "golly heck these knot thingies sure are
tough" line for now.

Well, I guess it's no longer a secret which one of your pigeon holes I've
been placed. Thanks for the info, anyway.

nb

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2008-04-16, Wolfgang wrote:

Not to put too fine a point on it but questions and/or pronouncements
concerning consideration would appear to be a bit out of your depth.
Best
to stick to observations along the "golly heck these knot thingies sure
are
tough" line for now.

Well, I guess it's no longer a secret which one of your pigeon holes I've
been placed.

No pigeonholes. On the other hand, my perceptions of people don't arise in
vacuo.

Are you what you appear to be? Or do you merely appear to be what you are?

Thanks for the info, anyway.

That was not so much information as it was advice. Take it for what you
think it's worth......or not.....I'll be here either way.

Wolfgang

knotted leader/tippet help
 

Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote

I've switched to rings for my muskie and bass leaders but I'm
too much of a tweed-dressed, dries upstream only kinda guy to
use them on my trout leaders. ;-)



they say the admission is the first step G

get the very tiny ones .. 4s I believe in Roman Moser brand ... and nobody
but you will ever know you're using them :-) ... use a Pitzen to attach
the ring and clinch ( or improved ) to attach tippet and fly and you'll
almost never lose a ring ... very similar to your
" like this setup because
the double surgeons is the weak link and if I break off that's
where I want it to happen."

.... this is doubly true because the mono on the leader side of the ring can
be several sizes bigger than the tippet and still have a very nice casting
leader

I'm fully aware of the advantages the rings offer, that's why
I use them on some leaders. But there is something elegant and
proper about a well-tied knot which I appreciate more than utility.

Come to think of it, that "something" is why I like fly fishing
more than other methods too. I know, it doesn't make sense but
there you have it.

--
Ken Fortenberry

knotted leader/tippet help
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote


I use them on some leaders. But there is something elegant and
proper about a well-tied knot which I appreciate more than utility.

Come to think of it, that "something" is why I like fly fishing
more than other methods too. I know, it doesn't make sense but
there you have it.




Actually, it makes a lot of sense to me.