OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

The Times reports today that T. Boone Pickens, the Texas
billionaire who bankrolled the Swiftboaters has welshed
on his offer to pay anyone a million dollars if they could
prove the Swiftboaters were liars. John Kerry signed a
SF-180 which allowed the release of all his military records
and a group of veterans who served with Kerry used those
records and sworn affidavits to document ten lies. But
Pickens refuses to pay. No surprise there, if there's one
thing we know about the Swiftboaters it's that they're liars.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-says-no-deal/

So OK, that's history, fast forward to the present. I have
two related questions.

If John McCain's superior officers did not see him as qualified
to serve as a flag officer (Rear Admiral) why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ? What did his
fellow officers know about this screwup of a cadet who finished
near the bottom of his class ? (As an aside, how does a screwup
like that get a plum assignment like flying planes off a carrier ?
Son and grandson of Admirals perhaps ?)

There is only one way to know why John McCain was never going to
be an Admiral and that is for John McCain to submit, as John Kerry
did, a SF-180 releasing all his military records in full. Why
won't he do that ?

And question number three, why isn't the media all over this like
stink on **** ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:16:36 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ?

For the same reason they voted for a draft dodger?

For the same reason they voted for someone who only served 1/2 a tour
in Nam as a Spec 4 and then flunked out of divinity school.

For the same reason they voted for an O3 with an "unusual" discharge?

Lots of navy captains do not make admiral. The important thing to
remember is that he made O6 (Captain) and that requires a helluva lot
of leadership qualities. Obama has done what? Actually served as a
senator for 143 days? I'll take the leadership of navy captain any
day to an inexperienced charasmatic senator.

And, if you think flying off a carrier on wartime sorties is a "plum
job", then you know diddly **** about flying or carriers. He was
there flying in harm's way. Your guy was at Oxford demonstrating
against the US while McCain was escaping from his exploding A4 Skyhawk
after the fire on Forrestal. McCain was almost killed in that fire.
The Forrestal was removed from the theater and returned home. The
entire air wing went with it, except for a few pilots that volunteered
to change to a different carrier air group. McCain volunteered for
than trasfer.

McCain has an honored family background of Naval heros. Your guy has
a black muslim father and a white mother whom he is ashamed of because
she's white. He was raised by his white grandparents, but praises not
them but his father.

Plum job, my ass. All of your boys are the ones with the plum jobs,
Ken.

Talk about trying to swiftboat Obama..............

Dave

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ?

For the same reason they voted for a draft dodger?

Uh, OK. That works for me but I'm surprised to hear that
you voted for a draft dodger.

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Uh, OK. That works for me but I'm surprised to hear that
you voted for a draft dodger.


Bush was of course a cocaine sniffing draft dodger.
The National Guard fights in wars these days.
But they didn't back then. You couldn't get into
the guard then, if you didn't know somebody--because
it was the best and most "honorable" way to dodge combat (in the early
Vietnam days anyway, when Bush League went in).

Then he went awol and then his records disappeared.
Dozens of people have reported his cocaine abuse.
Most recently, McClellan documented Bush's awkward refusal
to deny sniffing cocaine. Repugnicans are in denial on this.
They want to have a **** fit because Bill Clinton
didn' inhale. But they have blinders on when it comes
to their own draft dodging cocaine sniffing moron president.

Idiots of a feather flock together.....



--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

salmobytes typed:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Uh, OK. That works for me but I'm surprised to hear that
you voted for a draft dodger.

Bush was of course a cocaine sniffing draft dodger.
The National Guard fights in wars these days.
But they didn't back then. You couldn't get into
the guard then, if you didn't know somebody--because
it was the best and most "honorable" way to dodge combat (in the early
Vietnam days anyway, when Bush League went in).

Then he went awol and then his records disappeared.
Dozens of people have reported his cocaine abuse.
Most recently, McClellan documented Bush's awkward refusal
to deny sniffing cocaine. Repugnicans are in denial on this.
They want to have a **** fit because Bill Clinton
didn' inhale. But they have blinders on when it comes
to their own draft dodging cocaine sniffing moron president.

Idiots of a feather flock together.....

Is this the same Sandy that doesn't want to get involved in these political
discussions? Just asking.
--
TL,
Tim
(who is guessing there may be a "good-Sandy" and a "bad-Sandy.")
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On 26-Jun-2008, salmobytes wrote:

Idiots of a feather flock together...

Is that true?
Fat pirates , Wolfgang and rdean - all have feathers??
Wow!

Fred

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:16:36 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

The Times reports today that T. Boone Pickens, the Texas
billionaire who bankrolled the Swiftboaters has welshed
on his offer to pay anyone a million dollars if they could
prove the Swiftboaters were liars. John Kerry signed a
SF-180 which allowed the release of all his military records
and a group of veterans who served with Kerry used those
records and sworn affidavits to document ten lies. But
Pickens refuses to pay. No surprise there, if there's one
thing we know about the Swiftboaters it's that they're liars.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-says-no-deal/

So OK, that's history, fast forward to the present. I have
two related questions.

If John McCain's superior officers did not see him as qualified
to serve as a flag officer (Rear Admiral) why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ? What did his
fellow officers know about this screwup of a cadet who finished
near the bottom of his class ? (As an aside, how does a screwup
like that get a plum assignment like flying planes off a carrier ?
Son and grandson of Admirals perhaps ?)

There is only one way to know why John McCain was never going to
be an Admiral and that is for John McCain to submit, as John Kerry
did, a SF-180 releasing all his military records in full. Why
won't he do that ?

And question number three, why isn't the media all over this like
stink on **** ?

Um, "the media" ought to "get involved" because one blog has alleged
that someone is not living up to what another blog (alleged by the first
blog to be merely "sympathetic" to the someone in question) claimed he
said he'd do? Ah, well, maybe "the media" are just too busy not being
all over Obama's well-documented personally-delivered promises covered
by "the media" that he'd stick to public funding and then, didn't live
up to those promises...like stink on ****...

....or maybe "the media" is just swamped...digging through the McCain
recipe files...

And, ahem, while it's otherwise known as "the voice of the right-wing,"
but you might wish to glance at this:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/040...g,51276,1.html

and this:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/052...g,64705,6.html


HTH,
R

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:01:32 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote:

salmobytes typed:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Uh, OK. That works for me but I'm surprised to hear that
you voted for a draft dodger.

Bush was of course a cocaine sniffing draft dodger.
The National Guard fights in wars these days.
But they didn't back then. You couldn't get into
the guard then, if you didn't know somebody--because
it was the best and most "honorable" way to dodge combat (in the early
Vietnam days anyway, when Bush League went in).

Then he went awol and then his records disappeared.
Dozens of people have reported his cocaine abuse.
Most recently, McClellan documented Bush's awkward refusal
to deny sniffing cocaine. Repugnicans are in denial on this.
They want to have a **** fit because Bill Clinton
didn' inhale. But they have blinders on when it comes
to their own draft dodging cocaine sniffing moron president.

Idiots of a feather flock together.....

Is this the same Sandy that doesn't want to get involved in these political
discussions? Just asking.

Hey, it could be - I see no evidence of "discussion," political or
otherwise, in Sandy's reply...why, heck, he could have even PROMISED not
to get involved in political discussions and only a blog...or a guy on
USENET...would be able to call him a liar...

HTH,
R

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:10:14 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:16:36 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ?

For the same reason they voted for a draft dodger?

For the same reason they voted for someone who only served 1/2 a tour
in Nam as a Spec 4 and then flunked out of divinity school.

For the same reason they voted for an O3 with an "unusual" discharge?

And that has to do with McCain how, exactly?

Lots of navy captains do not make admiral. The important thing to
remember is that he made O6 (Captain) and that requires a helluva lot
of leadership qualities.

Generally speaking, yes, but let's not get into fantasyland here - there
have been officers of all ranks that, er, "wasn't fit to shovel ****
from one place to a'ner..."

Obama has done what?

As to executive governance, nothing, as the record clearly
demonstrates...

....but OTOH, very few newly-elected US Presidents have had prior
experience as US Presidents...only one, IIRC, has had prior
experience...and that won't change this year, either...

Actually served as a
senator for 143 days? I'll take the leadership of navy captain any
day to an inexperienced charasmatic senator.

Um...howsabout Duke Cunningham...?

And, if you think flying off a carrier on wartime sorties is a "plum
job", then you know diddly **** about flying or carriers. He was
there flying in harm's way. Your guy was at Oxford demonstrating
against the US while McCain was escaping from his exploding A4 Skyhawk
after the fire on Forrestal. McCain was almost killed in that fire.
The Forrestal was removed from the theater and returned home. The
entire air wing went with it, except for a few pilots that volunteered
to change to a different carrier air group. McCain volunteered for
than trasfer.

McCain has an honored family background of Naval heros. Your guy has
a black muslim father and a white mother whom he is ashamed of because
she's white. He was raised by his white grandparents, but praises not
them but his father.

Plum job, my ass. All of your boys are the ones with the plum jobs,
Ken.

Talk about trying to swiftboat Obama..............

Well, we could, or we could just, um, call a spade a spade: both
candidates, their respective parties, and their most ardent supporters
are practicing politics as usual...the first rule of which is to claim
you're gonna do what the people want - if they are happy, you promise to
insure the status quo and if they are unhappy, you claim you're the only
person in the country who can bring about change...

HTH,
R

Dave

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:23:48 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:


On 26-Jun-2008, salmobytes wrote:

Idiots of a feather flock together...

Is that true?
Fat pirates , Wolfgang and rdean - all have feathers??

Well, sure...I mean, what's so unusual about on-topic FLY fishermen
having feathers...geez, Fred, whatsamattayou - you a worm and Nibblets
kinda gal...?

Wow!

Wow, indeed...

Fred

There was no doubt about it...

HTH,
R

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

Tim J. wrote:

Is this the same Sandy that doesn't want to get involved in these political
discussions? Just asking.

I had a revalation. It came to me in the middle of the night.
So, yes, I'm a new argumentative pain in the ass on ROFF.
That's my new 180 degree direction and mission in life.


--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:26:18 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Uh, OK. That works for me but I'm surprised to hear that
you voted for a draft dodger.

Didn't know it when I put the X in the box. I was ****ed at Bush 1.
Within weeks I was disappointed in my choice.

Dave

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:53:49 -0600, salmobytes
wrote:

Bush was of course a cocaine sniffing draft dodger.
The National Guard fights in wars these days.

Check the Wall, idiot. Lots of NG folks were lost in action,
including aviators.

Your post is horse****. SOS, different day.

Dave

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:08:45 -0600, salmobytes
wrote:

I'm a new argumentative pain in the ass on ROFF.
That's my new 180 degree direction and mission in life.

SOSDD

HTH

D

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:23:48 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:


On 26-Jun-2008, salmobytes wrote:

Idiots of a feather flock together...

Is that true?
Fat pirates , Wolfgang and rdean - all have feathers??
Wow!

Fred

Wow. Fred posted something that you can actually read. And no
misspelled woids! I am impressed. What happened? Not smoking that
cheap **** or swilling that cheap jug wine? Keep it up, Fred. Some
day someone will actually understand you.

Oooooops, you're not reading this, are you?

Dave (CiC of Fred's Plonked File)

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:08:45 -0600, salmobytes wrote:

Tim J. wrote:

Is this the same Sandy that doesn't want to get involved in these political
discussions? Just asking.

I had a revalation. It came to me in the middle of the night.
So, yes, I'm a new argumentative pain in the ass on ROFF.
That's my new 180 degree direction and mission in life.

You sell yourself short...I'd offer you made a 360...

HTH,
R

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
The Times reports today that T. Boone Pickens, the Texas
billionaire who bankrolled the Swiftboaters has welshed
on his offer to pay anyone a million dollars if they could
prove the Swiftboaters were liars. John Kerry signed a
SF-180 which allowed the release of all his military records
and a group of veterans who served with Kerry used those
records and sworn affidavits to document ten lies. But
Pickens refuses to pay. No surprise there, if there's one
thing we know about the Swiftboaters it's that they're liars.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-says-no-deal/

So OK, that's history, fast forward to the present. I have
two related questions.

If John McCain's superior officers did not see him as qualified
to serve as a flag officer (Rear Admiral) why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ? What did his
fellow officers know about this screwup of a cadet who finished
near the bottom of his class ? (As an aside, how does a screwup
like that get a plum assignment like flying planes off a carrier ?
Son and grandson of Admirals perhaps ?)

There is only one way to know why John McCain was never going to
be an Admiral and that is for John McCain to submit, as John Kerry
did, a SF-180 releasing all his military records in full. Why
won't he do that ?

And question number three, why isn't the media all over this like
stink on **** ?

Um, "the media" ought to "get involved" because one blog has alleged
that someone is not living up to what another blog (alleged by the first
blog to be merely "sympathetic" to the someone in question) claimed he
said he'd do? ...

I'm not talking about the media investigating T. Boone Pickens
and you know it. I'm wondering out loud why there's not been
any mention of McCain being a failure as a career naval officer.
I mean the guy had everything going for him, pedigree, war hero,
yadda yadda yadda, but when it came time to go from captain to
admiral his fellow officers made it clear that he didn't measure
up. Why ? Was it temperament, judgment, intellect ? Why wasn't
John McCain, in the opinion of his fellow officers, fit to be an
admiral in the US Navy ? I think the voters are entitled to know
but McCain won't release his military records. Why ? The wingers
on the right were quick to criticize Kerry when he wouldn't release
his military records but McCain gets a pass. Why ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

salmobytes typed:
Tim J. wrote:

Is this the same Sandy that doesn't want to get involved in these
political discussions? Just asking.

I had a revalation. It came to me in the middle of the night.

Ahhhh. . . one of those "faith" experiences that are so laughable. I think I
understand now.

So, yes, I'm a new argumentative pain in the ass on ROFF.
That's my new 180 degree direction and mission in life.

You're doing a fine job - keep up the good work!
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:46:00 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
The Times reports today that T. Boone Pickens, the Texas
billionaire who bankrolled the Swiftboaters has welshed
on his offer to pay anyone a million dollars if they could
prove the Swiftboaters were liars. John Kerry signed a
SF-180 which allowed the release of all his military records
and a group of veterans who served with Kerry used those
records and sworn affidavits to document ten lies. But
Pickens refuses to pay. No surprise there, if there's one
thing we know about the Swiftboaters it's that they're liars.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-says-no-deal/

So OK, that's history, fast forward to the present. I have
two related questions.

If John McCain's superior officers did not see him as qualified
to serve as a flag officer (Rear Admiral) why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ? What did his
fellow officers know about this screwup of a cadet who finished
near the bottom of his class ? (As an aside, how does a screwup
like that get a plum assignment like flying planes off a carrier ?
Son and grandson of Admirals perhaps ?)

There is only one way to know why John McCain was never going to
be an Admiral and that is for John McCain to submit, as John Kerry
did, a SF-180 releasing all his military records in full. Why
won't he do that ?

And question number three, why isn't the media all over this like
stink on **** ?

Um, "the media" ought to "get involved" because one blog has alleged
that someone is not living up to what another blog (alleged by the first
blog to be merely "sympathetic" to the someone in question) claimed he
said he'd do? ...

I'm not talking about the media investigating T. Boone Pickens
and you know it. I'm wondering out loud why there's not been
any mention of McCain being a failure as a career naval officer.
I mean the guy had everything going for him, pedigree, war hero,
yadda yadda yadda, but when it came time to go from captain to
admiral his fellow officers made it clear that he didn't measure
up. Why ? Was it temperament, judgment, intellect ? Why wasn't
John McCain, in the opinion of his fellow officers, fit to be an
admiral in the US Navy ? I think the voters are entitled to know
but McCain won't release his military records. Why ? The wingers
on the right were quick to criticize Kerry when he wouldn't release
his military records but McCain gets a pass. Why ?

Hmmm...you'd think John Kerry would be among the first and loudest in
making demands rather than actively preventing at least a large portion
of the records from being released.

Anyway, what do you allege is there to "investigate?" Most of his
records HAVE been released, some by McCain, some via FOI requests. Even
without the releases thus far, his record is generally well-known. IAC,
I don't recall any widespread claims that McCain was the best officer
ever, nor has McCain actively claimed such (or passively or tacitly,
either). Moreover, I'd offer that about the only things involving
McCain and the military of which much is made by _anyone_, all
undisputedly true, are that: a) he voluntarily served for 20-plus years,
c) he voluntarily served in combat, and, c) he was a POW as a result of
that service (some, including Obama, call him a "hero" because of this -
I've no real opinion either way specifically as to McCain solely with
regard to his former POW status other than being captured doesn't
automatically make someone a "hero.") I'd further offer that if McCain
hadn't met Cindy AFTER having been appointed Senate liaison, you'd not
know or care who John McCain is. Sorta like if Obama hadn't made a
single speech, damned few would know or care who Obama is...

OTOH, a little research into his military career might educate you a
bit. Suffice to say that it appears he did show extreme "heroism" on a
number of occasions, such as on the Forrestal and as POW by refusing the
offered "propaganda" release (try to find fault with THAT...) unless all
were. As to being a flag officer, he was on-track for that (and in was
clearly in his future had he chosen to remain), but not a full admiral,
and certainly not a 4-star as his father and grandfather. His last
command, IIRC, was exemplary, but his personal conduct, ala, um, getting
his prop waxed, was less so. FWIW, I suspect his records would be at
worst a wash as far as "the voters" and their opinion as to his fitness
for POTUS - his early years would be net-negative, his later years
net-positive. I'd further offer that this may be a classic case of be
careful of that for which you ask, lest you get it...

TC,
R

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Check the Wall, idiot. Lots of NG folks were lost in action,
including aviators.

Well of course I could be wrong. That did happen at least once
before. But the way I remember it, the guard guys did not start
to participate until later on in the war: late sixties early
seventies. Back the mid 60s, when Bush
went in, it wasn't the case. Draft 'counselors' then used
to tell you the safest way to avoid the war was the guard,
in those days. But then they'd tell you it wasn't an option.
You couldn't get in unless you knew someone.

You're still a great guy in my book Dave: the angry redneck
with a heart of gold and all that.
I have no prejudice against the mentally impaired at all.
I'm easy.






--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On 26 Jun 2008 19:52:24 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote:

wrote in news:v4p764duqiuvgn1oj2vtg46gf8v3vvg538@
4ax.com:

Even
without the releases thus far, his record is generally well-known. IAC,
I don't recall any widespread claims that McCain was the best officer
ever, nor has McCain actively claimed such (or passively or tacitly,
either). Moreover, I'd offer that about the only things involving
McCain and the military of which much is made by _anyone_, all
undisputedly true, are that: a) he voluntarily served for 20-plus years,

McCain published in his book that he left the military after being told he
wouldn't be going much further than he already was. A fairly recent
NYTimes feature had his people claiming that he left the military knowing
he would get flag rank had he stayed in.

I'd offer that RA wasn't "much further," especially for McCain, who
apparently had a goal of four stars. IAC, I don't see that it matters
much either way - at the very least, he didn't have the physicals for
"much further." And given the origins of his physical problems, IMO, it
would be sorta like, oh, say, calling Max Cleland "bad" because he was
"unfit" to be a fighter pilot...

TC,
R

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:04 -0600, salmobytes wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Check the Wall, idiot. Lots of NG folks were lost in action,
including aviators.

Well of course I could be wrong. That did happen at least once
before. But the way I remember it, the guard guys did not start
to participate until later on in the war: late sixties early
seventies. Back the mid 60s, when Bush
went in, it wasn't the case. Draft 'counselors' then used
to tell you the safest way to avoid the war was the guard,
in those days. But then they'd tell you it wasn't an option.
You couldn't get in unless you knew someone.

You're still a great guy in my book Dave: the angry redneck
with a heart of gold and all that.
I have no prejudice against the mentally impaired at all.
I'm easy.

FWIW, you might wish to check the record before you disparage the Air
Guard. You might not like Bush, and you're entitled to your own
opinion, but not your own facts. At the times both entered service,
given the prior experiences of the units entered, Bush would have more
likely seen combat and Kerry was unlikely to get anywhere near it. IAC,
politics aside, your implication that Guard members didn't fight in wars
"back then" is extremely offensive...mainly because it is so
incorrect...

HTH,
R

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:04 -0600, salmobytes
wrote:

Well of course I could be wrong.

You have an enormous talent recognizing the obvious.

That did happen at least once
before. But the way I remember it, the guard guys did not start
to participate until later on in the war: late sixties early
seventies. Back the mid 60s, when Bush
went in, it wasn't the case. Draft 'counselors' then used
to tell you the safest way to avoid the war was the guard,
in those days. But then they'd tell you it wasn't an option.
You couldn't get in unless you knew someone.

Operative words, Colin: "when Bush went in." He served. His unit
could have been called up, although the aircraft he was selected to
learn/fly was almost obsolete. He served his country. He didn't run
like Clinton and you. He served in some capacity. The very *least*
you could have done was volunteer two years to serve in a humanity
service job like my friends did. But, instead, you rubbed your smooth
little ass and told it, "I'll run and you will be protected. **** my
country. What's it ever done for you and me?"

You're still a great guy in my book Dave: the angry redneck
with a heart of gold and all that.
I have no prejudice against the mentally impaired at all.
I'm easy.


Gee thanks. I was born and bred in a New England Yankee family (with
some French Canadian influence, of course). Angry? At what?
Certainly not you, or anyone else on roff. Certainly nothing
political. I am a little ****ed at #1 grandson for not washing my BBS
wheels, but that too will pass.

Heart of gold? Gee, thanks. Try to remember a few things, Colin:
Always bring the clave meister a gift if you attend a clave.
Volunteer as much time as you can to help those less fortunate than
yourself. Sponsor a family - you know, one that needs help getting
by. Give at least 10% of your after-tax income to charity and do not
follow Kerry's example of 0.1% before he ran for potus. And vote for
the man not the party.

Mentally impaired? ****, just think how many more millions I could
have accrued if I was edumacated. Just have to settle on the few that
I have. This mentally impaired **** sure does pay well. d;o)

Dave (Born a Yankee but cheers for the Red Sox)

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
..........

"It was May 27, 1968, at the height of the Vietnam War. Bush was 12 days
away from losing his student deferment from the draft at a time when
Americans were dying in combat at the rate of 350 a week. The unit Bush
wanted to join offered him the chance to fulfill his military commitment
at a base in Texas. It was seen as an escape route from Vietnam by many
men his age, and usually had a long waiting list."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bush072899.htm




--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:30:29 -0600, salmobytes
wrote:

It was seen as an escape route from Vietnam by many
men his age, and usually had a long waiting list."

Sez you and the Washington Post? Too funny. He served. You did
not. You have no right to criticize him. You chicken-****ted your
way out just like Clinton did. Shame on you.

Dave

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"salmobytes" wrote in message
. ..
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Uh, OK. That works for me but I'm surprised to hear that
you voted for a draft dodger.


Bush was of course a cocaine sniffing draft dodger.
The National Guard fights in wars these days.
But they didn't back then. You couldn't get into
the guard then, if you didn't know somebody--because
it was the best and most "honorable" way to dodge combat (in the early
Vietnam days anyway, when Bush League went in).

Then he went awol and then his records disappeared.
Dozens of people have reported his cocaine abuse.
Most recently, McClellan documented Bush's awkward refusal
to deny sniffing cocaine. Repugnicans are in denial on this.
They want to have a **** fit because Bill Clinton
didn' inhale. But they have blinders on when it comes
to their own draft dodging cocaine sniffing moron president.

Idiots of a feather flock together.....



--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

The National Guard airwings were always available to be shot at. Some of
the first flyers in Korea, and they had a very high death rate, were Guard
pilots.

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just like Clinton did. *

Didn't Cheney get a few deferments too?

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

just like Clinton did. *

Didn't Cheney get a few deferments too?

Well, those don't really count...I mean, the Deathstar was still in
drydock over at EB...

HTH,
R

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

Didn't Cheney get a few deferments too?


Clinton didn't get a deferment. He got a draft notice. Twice! And
he dodged it with the help of political friends.

Cheney had a college deferment, just like some fellow roffians who had
the same deferments and complain because Cheney didn't serve.

Dave

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Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

Didn't Cheney get a few deferments too?


Clinton didn't get a deferment. He got a draft notice. Twice! And
he dodged it with the help of political friends.

Cheney had a college deferment, just like some fellow roffians who had
the same deferments and complain because Cheney didn't serve.

Dave




--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

OT Lies, liars and SF-180
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

drivel excuses about President Cheney's lack'a money
where his mouth is

Just thought I'd mention, Dave. You've called me a coward
a dozen times over, and said I "ran" because I didn't serve
during the idiot's redneck Vietnam debacle. Actually I showed
up for my draft physical. Told the truth and got a deferment that never
got changed. I got lucky that way. Lot's of guys made up stories, went
to Canada, pretended to be something they weren't. I didn't do
any of that.

It was a fun day. I got on the bus in Trenton New Jersey early.
By the time we got to Newark New Jersey there was a full-blown
riot going on. The cops had streets cordoned off. A building
was on fire and there were fire trucks everywhere. Angry long-hairs
were yelling at what they called the pigs. When I got off the bus
someone handed me a bunch of anti-war literatu "it's your
constitutional right to have this information.....etc" Sirens
were blaring everywhere. It was so loud you couldn't tell what the
deal was.

Two steps later I went through a door and white-helmeted military
police snatched the papers from our hands. We sat down and filled
out papers. "Are you a homosexual" the form asked. I checked no.
Two long-haired guys stood up, tore up their forms and smashed their
chairs on the floor. Military police came in and wacked them unconscious
with night sticks. Drug them out the door by their long hair.

Can't remember when I found out my deferment status. Was it that day?
Or later. That was a long time ago. I didn't complain a bit.




--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

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On Jun 27, 10:23*am, Dave LaCourse wrote:

Clinton didn't get a deferment. *He got a draft notice. *Twice! *And
he dodged it with the help of political friends.

That Clinton used political connections to avoid being drafted is
beyond dispute. I don't believe under the rules at the time he was
ever actually obligated to report, including once where he would have
been obligated but the notice was sent regular mail and arrived in
England after the induction date. The notice arrived after Clinton had
started a semester at Oxford. I also seem to remember something about
being denied entry into the reserves for the air force and navy due
to hearing and vision issues anyway. Who's to say he would have passed
a physical?

Personally, I fail to see how that is any different than anyone else
who got deferments, including Cheney, or those who requests natrional
guard transfers to another state and let their flight status drop so
they can work on political campaigns-Bush.

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:23:55 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:12:34 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

Didn't Cheney get a few deferments too?


Clinton didn't get a deferment. He got a draft notice. Twice! And
he dodged it with the help of political friends.

Cheney had a college deferment, just like some fellow roffians who had
the same deferments and complain because Cheney didn't serve.

I'm curious - what does Bill Clinton's or Dick Cheney's military status
have to do with the upcoming election? And more importantly, what's to
discuss? Cheney got deferments and Clinton pulled more **** than a
feedlot tractor...

IAC, this sorta brings up a point that I find particularly amusing: when
it looked like Hillary was the shoo-in for the nomination, most
hard-core Dems (ROFFian and otherwise) were touting HER as the only
possible salvation of the US of A, with nary a mention of Obama. Now,
just a year or so later, Obama is the, er, "apparent nominee" and
Hillary is a has-been who practices the underhanded politics as
usual/politics of the past. It's now Obama who is the only possible
savior...well, with a lot of help from Billary, Gore, McAuliffe,
Screamin' Howie, and a star-studded cast of Clintonistas, Gorons, etc...

HTH,
R
Dave

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:06:47 -0600, salmobytes
wrote:

Just thought I'd mention, Dave. You've called me a coward
a dozen times over, and said I "ran" because I didn't serve
during the idiot's redneck Vietnam debacle. Actually I showed
up for my draft physical. Told the truth and got a deferment that never
got changed. I got lucky that way. Lot's of guys made up stories, went
to Canada, pretended to be something they weren't. I didn't do
any of that.

I apologize for calling you a coward, Sandy.
I got the feeling you were celebrating by not reporting, running, etc.
Forgive me.

Dave

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Dave LaCourse wrote:
Wayne Knight wrote:
Didn't Cheney get a few deferments too?

Clinton didn't get a deferment. He got a draft notice. Twice! And
he dodged it with the help of political friends.

Cheney had a college deferment, just like some fellow roffians who had
the same deferments and complain because Cheney didn't serve.

Cheney got *4* student deferments and a fifth "hardship deferment"
when his wife was 10 weeks pregnant. Cheney's first daughter was
born 9 months and 2 days after the Selective Service lifted its
policy not to draft married men with no children. Clearly, the man
dodged the draft to the utmost. And good for him, I'd have done
the same thing and failing that I'd have opted for Canada. The
difference between me and Cheney is that I didn't turn into a
despicable, neocon hypocrite.

--
Ken Fortenberry

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Dave LaCourse wrote:

I apologize for calling you a coward, Sandy.

I apologize for insulting you so many different ways--you rotten
redneck son of a bitch. I am getting a bit tired of all this
wrangling. But it has been fun. You gotta admit.

--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:07:47 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Jun 27, 10:23*am, Dave LaCourse wrote:

Clinton didn't get a deferment. *He got a draft notice. *Twice! *And
he dodged it with the help of political friends.

That Clinton used political connections to avoid being drafted is
beyond dispute. I don't believe under the rules at the time he was
ever actually obligated to report, including once where he would have
been obligated but the notice was sent regular mail and arrived in
England after the induction date. The notice arrived after Clinton had
started a semester at Oxford. I also seem to remember something about
being denied entry into the reserves for the air force and navy due
to hearing and vision issues anyway. Who's to say he would have passed
a physical?

Personally, I fail to see how that is any different than anyone else
who got deferments, including Cheney, or those who requests natrional
guard transfers to another state and let their flight status drop so
they can work on political campaigns-Bush.

Before the birthday draft numbering system came in, Clinton got a
draft notice. He contacted his draft board and received a second one.
He eventually got accepted into the Arkasas Nat'l Guard, but never
reported because he then drew a very low number in the birthday draft.
He failed to report to his agreed to Nat'l Guard post., and took a
chance that they would not call his very low number. He dodged the
draft.

Many got deferments, including friends who were married, then had
children. I know of at least two people who accepted positions away
from home to do humanitarian work (Boston City Hospital - a hell hole)
that qualified them as exempt from the draft. I have no problem with
deferments or those that got them. I do have a problem with those
with deferments that point a finger at Cheney and say *he* didn't
serve. I do have a problem with those who refuse to serve when their
country calls them. There are always honorable options.

Dave

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:13:15 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

The
difference between me and Cheney is that I didn't turn into a
despicable, neocon hypocrite.

No, you turned into a despicable, old-school pinko hypocrite.

Who loves ya, Ken?

Louie

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:13:15 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Wayne Knight wrote:
Didn't Cheney get a few deferments too?

Clinton didn't get a deferment. He got a draft notice. Twice! And
he dodged it with the help of political friends.

Cheney had a college deferment, just like some fellow roffians who had
the same deferments and complain because Cheney didn't serve.

Cheney got *4* student deferments and a fifth "hardship deferment"
when his wife was 10 weeks pregnant. Cheney's first daughter was
born 9 months and 2 days after the Selective Service lifted its
policy not to draft married men with no children.

Um, all else aside, are you suggesting that Cheney had enough, um,
stroke back then to get the Selective Service to time it's actions with
his wife's menstrual cycle...?

Clearly, the man
dodged the draft to the utmost. And good for him, I'd have done
the same thing and failing that I'd have opted for Canada.

BIRDS OF A FEATHER!! BIRDS OF A FEATHER!!

The
difference between me and Cheney is that I didn't turn into a
despicable, neocon hypocrite.

Fair enough...what kind of despicable hypocrite do you see yourself as
turning into...?

Help? Oh, I think not,
R