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Quill-bodied mayflies...
Over the past few years, I have tied more and more dryfly imitations of
mayfly duns with variations of quill bodies. I use the word mayfly for generics, not just the large fly by that name as Europeans use it. My reasons for the move to quills was twofold: A slender, realistically segmented body could be created and lighter colors remained true when wet. The variations I have tried include, peacock quill(bleached and dyed),stripped and dyed hackle quill, bleached and dyed peccarry, turkey biots and plastic 'pseudoquill' types. Right now, I have sort of settled for using turkey biot for most patterns, due to good availability, durability and ease of use. Any others with input on this? Tom -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Tom Littleton" wrote in
news:mVYlk.308$7N1.28@trnddc06: Over the past few years, I have tied more and more dryfly imitations of mayfly duns with variations of quill bodies. I use the word mayfly for generics, not just the large fly by that name as Europeans use it. My reasons for the move to quills was twofold: A slender, realistically segmented body could be created and lighter colors remained true when wet. The variations I have tried include, peacock quill(bleached and dyed),stripped and dyed hackle quill, bleached and dyed peccarry, turkey biots and plastic 'pseudoquill' types. Right now, I have sort of settled for using turkey biot for most patterns, due to good availability, durability and ease of use. Any others with input on this? Tom AK Best was big on this in AK's Fly Box. It was a lovely book, but I gave it away at a Clave Raffle, as the tying style didn't really appeal to me at the time (also, there's only so many ways to write "use a quill body" to fill up a book, so I found it a tad tedious). Perhaps I should revisit it. I still tie a quill body midge with a Z-wing wing tied flat back on a size 24 hook that works quite well. One problem is that the quills tend to break, with bits splintering off as you wind them, if they're dry. Soaking them for a while in water with a few drops of hair conditioner takes care of this. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4... AK Best was big on this in AK's Fly Box. It was a lovely book, but I gave it away at a Clave Raffle, as the tying style didn't really appeal to me at the time (also, there's only so many ways to write "use a quill body" to fill up a book, so I found it a tad tedious). Perhaps I should revisit it. I still tie a quill body midge with a Z-wing wing tied flat back on a size 24 hook that works quite well. One problem is that the quills tend to break, with bits splintering off as you wind them, if they're dry. Soaking them for a while in water with a few drops of hair conditioner takes care of this. good advice at the end, Scott! As for Best, why he insists on using the biots so that a fuzzy rib shows eludes me. When tied on, concave side down, the biots come out smooth, with a subtle segmentation that can be made a bit more prominent with a coat of cement. So tied, you have the sturdiest quill I know of. Tom -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Tom Littleton" wrote in news:YhZlk.221$_H1.139
@trnddc05: good advice at the end, Scott! As for Best, why he insists on using the biots so that a fuzzy rib shows eludes me. I think the fuzzy rib might trap an air bubble or two. I'm not so sure it makes a diff, but it always convinces the newbies at demos that you know what you're doing when the fuzzy side ends up the way you intended it to!! Remember, reverse the notch on the biot for lefty tiers. Harry Mason has a beautiful biot caddis that I like tying fuzzy rib up. Talk about a full dress caddis!! Really nice. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4... I think the fuzzy rib might trap an air bubble or two. I'm not so sure it makes a diff, but it always convinces the newbies at demos that you know what you're doing when the fuzzy side ends up the way you intended it to!! exactly my point......caddis trap air bubbles, but from all I have ever seen, duns do not. Also, the effect of the fuzzy ribbed biot is to fatten the body, exactly the opposite of why I'd use a quill body in the first place. Harry Mason has a beautiful biot caddis that I like tying fuzzy rib up. Talk about a full dress caddis!! Really nice. I've had a sample of that one in my tying room display for years. Possibly, the first biot pattern that I really ever gave a good look to. -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Tom Littleton" wrote in
news:D3_lk.301$mP.160@trnddc03: Harry Mason has a beautiful biot caddis that I like tying fuzzy rib up. Talk about a full dress caddis!! Really nice. I've had a sample of that one in my tying room display for years. Possibly, the first biot pattern that I really ever gave a good look to. Speaking of caddis and air bubbles, you ever try my woven CDC caddis?? I've got that one really down now. Jay Peck (http://www.jaypeckguides.com/main/) here, at Coleman's fly shop (meow!) asked me for ten dozen after I gave him a half dozen, but I don't have the wherewithal to tie that kind of volume. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
Scott, that is a sweet caddis tie. I noted it a while back, and, if my personal stash of caddis imitations ever drops under, say, 800 flies, I may tie up a few to add to the pileg Tom -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Tom Littleton" wrote in
news:il_lk.231$_H1.173@trnddc05: Scott, that is a sweet caddis tie. I noted it a while back, and, if my personal stash of caddis imitations ever drops under, say, 800 flies, I may tie up a few to add to the pileg Tom Go for it!! A little Frog's Fanny, and a bit o' weight to pull it under, and you've got a caddis encased in a beautiful real air bubble, like what LaFontaine tried to imitate in the Sparkle Pupa. CDC and Frog's Fanny on nymphs is a KILLER. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4... CDC and Frog's Fanny on nymphs is a KILLER. yup, in fact, Frogs Fanny(or generic) is good on a host of subsurface patterns, especially loop-dubbed nymphs and wets. Tom -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Tom Littleton" wrote in news:Ze%lk.227$EL2.222
@trnddc01: yup, in fact, Frogs Fanny(or generic) is good on a host of subsurface patterns, especially loop-dubbed nymphs and wets. But the generic doesn't have that lovely picture of a frog. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
On Aug 5, 12:42 pm, Scott Seidman wrote:
"Tom Littleton" wrote in news:Ze%lk.227$EL2.222 @trnddc01: yup, in fact, Frogs Fanny(or generic) is good on a host of subsurface patterns, especially loop-dubbed nymphs and wets. But the generic doesn't have that lovely picture of a frog. -- Scott Reverse name to reply True, but it costs about $25 a gallon instead of $4.95 for a little bottle. ;-) RE quills: I have been tying some emergers and spinners with moose mane or moose body hair. Here again, it makes a thin, segmented, and fairly durable body for dark bodied patterns. Also needs to be soaked before using, and a thin coat of head cement after tying, makes it look better and enhances durability. |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:52:07 -0700 (PDT), george9219
wrote: On Aug 5, 12:42 pm, Scott Seidman wrote: "Tom Littleton" wrote in news:Ze%lk.227$EL2.222 @trnddc01: yup, in fact, Frogs Fanny(or generic) is good on a host of subsurface patterns, especially loop-dubbed nymphs and wets. But the generic doesn't have that lovely picture of a frog. -- Scott Reverse name to reply True, but it costs about $25 a gallon instead of $4.95 for a little bottle. ;-) RE quills: I have been tying some emergers and spinners with moose mane or moose body hair. Here again, it makes a thin, segmented, and fairly durable body for dark bodied patterns. Also needs to be soaked before using, and a thin coat of head cement after tying, makes it look better and enhances durability. I got in the bad habit of taking the biot out of the soaking dish and puting it in my mouth while I tied another fly. When I was ready for it, I would take the biot out of my mouth, tie it in, and get another biot to put in my mouth. I can not imagine doing that with moose mane or body hair. d;o( One very successful iteration of the dreaded GRW is tied with biots if you can get the caddis green ones. I tie them in both ways - fuzzy side out and smooth side out. A light coating of Harder Than Nails (with sparkles!) makes the fly durable and gives it a better look. Dave |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
Dave LaCourse wrote in
: A light coating of Harder Than Nails (with sparkles!) makes the fly durable and gives it a better look. And it looks lovely on the toenails-- a nice surprise when you take off your waders! -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
On 5 Aug 2008 20:47:45 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote: And it looks lovely on the toenails-- a nice surprise when you take off your waders! LOL...... Nothing looks lovely when I take off my waders because the old man smell wilts everything. Women scream, small children run in fear, dogs stick their tails between their legs and run like hell, flowers within 15 feet whither and die. After 400 days, I finally washed them inside-out in the bathtube in Maine using Ivory soap. They threw away the tub when I was finished. Now when I pull a Full Reid, they just follow the bubbles to find me. Hey, Riiiiichaaaard...... 460 days on the G3s without a leak, tear, or rip. Dave |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:51:14 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote: I have sort of settled for using turkey biot for most patterns, due to good availability, durability and ease of use. Any others with input on this? if you can find them, seek out Canada Goose primary wing biots...dye them in any manner you like and see what a difference they make in the segmented appearance of the body.I think you will like it http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/...009/hoh139.jpg |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message . 1.4... Dave LaCourse wrote in : A light coating of Harder Than Nails (with sparkles!) makes the fly durable and gives it a better look. And it looks lovely on the toenails-- a nice surprise when you take off your waders! after the BVDs-on-the-cabin-steps incident, I, for one need no more mental images of David, sans waders. Tom -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:54:25 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote: after the BVDs-on-the-cabin-steps incident, I, for one need no more mental images of David, sans waders. LOL. Oh, my sides are hurting. Hahahaha. Too funny. That was the day I pulled a Full Reid in front of Jeffie and he watched me float down the river a few yards before asking, "Are you ok?" "Hell no, Jeffie, I'm drowning!" Lost a fly box full of nymphs which amused the hell out of him as he watched it float down river - Blue Rock Hole. Took some nice browns out of that water on both dries and nymphs. Gotta get back there, Tom. In October, probably, 'cause you are gonna be in a bad, bad mood when Obama loses in November. Dave |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
wrote in message
... if you can find them, seek out Canada Goose primary wing biots...dye them in any manner you like and see what a difference they make in the segmented appearance of the body.I think you will like it http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/...009/hoh139.jpg Thanks, Harry, I will do that. Pronto. Gosh, it is good to see you post around these parts!! I hope you are well. Tom -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
David,
I hope I will see you there....even if you cannot be in synch with Mike S and I closing up, we can stay at Bruce's place on the lower creek. Tom -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
Tom Littleton wrote:
Over the past few years, I have tied more and more dryfly imitations of mayfly duns with variations of quill bodies. I use the word mayfly for generics, not just the large fly by that name as Europeans use it. My reasons for the move to quills was twofold: A slender, realistically segmented body could be created and lighter colors remained true when wet. The variations I have tried include, peacock quill(bleached and dyed),stripped and dyed hackle quill, bleached and dyed peccarry, turkey biots and plastic 'pseudoquill' types. Right now, I have sort of settled for using turkey biot for most patterns, due to good availability, durability and ease of use. Any others with input on this? Tom I like goose biots. If you tie them in correctly, one edge will curl up for a really authentic segmented look to the body. Tim Lysyk copyright me. |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"Tim Lysyk" wrote in message
news:Su5mk.4511$nu6.3853@edtnps83... I like goose biots. If you tie them in correctly, one edge will curl up for a really authentic segmented look to the body. Tim Lysyk copyright me. have you tried bleached and dyed turkey biot? Sort of the same effect(turn biot over and tie, and the edge lays flat, still segmentation but less prominent). Agreed, biots seem to be my go-to for a thin, segmented body at the moment. Allan Podell gave me a whole range of dyed, bleached peccary. They make great quills, and are easy to tie with, with GREAT segmentation. The main problem, I cannot find a reliable source of bleached or for that matter, any, peccary hairs..... Tom -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
Tom Littleton wrote:
have you tried bleached and dyed turkey biot? Sort of the same effect(turn biot over and tie, and the edge lays flat, still segmentation but less prominent). Agreed, biots seem to be my go-to for a thin, segmented body at the moment. Allan Podell gave me a whole range of dyed, bleached peccary. They make great quills, and are easy to tie with, with GREAT segmentation. The main problem, I cannot find a reliable source of bleached or for that matter, any, peccary hairs..... Tom Nope, never used turkey biots. I tend to only use turkey for stonefly wing cases. Never used peccary either. Tim Lysyk copyright me |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:37:22 GMT, Tim Lysyk
wrote: Tom Littleton wrote: Over the past few years, I have tied more and more dryfly imitations of mayfly duns with variations of quill bodies. I use the word mayfly for generics, not just the large fly by that name as Europeans use it. My reasons for the move to quills was twofold: A slender, realistically segmented body could be created and lighter colors remained true when wet. The variations I have tried include, peacock quill(bleached and dyed),stripped and dyed hackle quill, bleached and dyed peccarry, turkey biots and plastic 'pseudoquill' types. Right now, I have sort of settled for using turkey biot for most patterns, due to good availability, durability and ease of use. Any others with input on this? Tom I like goose biots. If you tie them in correctly, one edge will curl up for a really authentic segmented look to the body. Tim Lysyk copyright me. Dyed Domestic Goose Biots are not the same as dyed wild Canada Goose. They are very hard to find and if you know a hunter a bottle of whatever will go a long ways. The domestic or white dyed goose biot does not have the depth of the "dark" edge definition when tied in, which is what gives the pronounced segmented look. I will try an find my vise and build a few for comparison and post the results |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:30:23 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote: wrote in message .. . if you can find them, seek out Canada Goose primary wing biots...dye them in any manner you like and see what a difference they make in the segmented appearance of the body.I think you will like it http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/...009/hoh139.jpg Thanks, Harry, I will do that. Pronto. Gosh, it is good to see you post around these parts!! I hope you are well. Tom Thanks Tom, I'm doing very well, in fact about to hit the five year all's clear mark here pretty soon. Kind of a milestone in the world of angiosarcoma's : |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
wrote in message
... Thanks Tom, I'm doing very well, in fact about to hit the five year all's clear mark here pretty soon. Kind of a milestone in the world of angiosarcoma's : excellent! Tom -- "The last one, I wont reply to you again, because there is simply no point in doing so, nor will I post to either of the groups again. Mike Connor" 8/3/08 7:30 pm EDT |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:30:23 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote: wrote in message . .. if you can find them, seek out Canada Goose primary wing biots...dye them in any manner you like and see what a difference they make in the segmented appearance of the body.I think you will like it http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/...009/hoh139.jpg Thanks, Harry, I will do that. Pronto. Gosh, it is good to see you post around these parts!! I hope you are well. Tom Thanks Tom, I'm doing very well, in fact about to hit the five year all's clear mark here pretty soon. Kind of a milestone in the world of angiosarcoma's : when last i saw you (a few weeks ago) on the banks of the madison, you looked and acted so "well" that it never even crossed my mind that you had experienced any life-threatening health issues. you were entirely too well, as was i.g good to know we'll have you around for a good long while yet - new flies to discover and new streams to wade. there is something healing and energizing about chasing trout on such waters, eh? btw, those cdc&elk and the killer caddis i first discovered through you were magic on the madison and nez perce and... well, you know. did the salmonfly ever get going strong? always good to see you harry - here and elsewhere. jeff |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"jeff miller" wrote in message . .. always good to see you harry - here and elsewhere. jeff and yourownself, too, counselor. BTW, how easy a trip would it be for you to make it up to, say, Assateague Island(or visa versa)? The Littleton clan might well be residing down that way within a year. Tom |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
Tom Littleton wrote:
"jeff miller" wrote in message . .. always good to see you harry - here and elsewhere. jeff and yourownself, too, counselor. BTW, how easy a trip would it be for you to make it up to, say, Assateague Island(or visa versa)? The Littleton clan might well be residing down that way within a year. Tom no kidding!! ASSateague...the island that kids love to speak about and birds flock to. half maryland, half virginia. are you gonna be on the good side or the less good side? i think it's about 4-5 hours from here...i've never been on it, though i've been to its sister, chincoteague once. you'll probably want to come this-a-way...better sal****er fishing down here, my boats are here, and i'd rather you drive. g jeff |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"jeff miller" wrote in message . .. half maryland, half virginia. are you gonna be on the good side or the less good side? i think it's about 4-5 hours from here...i've never been on it, though i've been to its sister, chincoteague once. you'll probably want to come this-a-way...better sal****er fishing down here, my boats are here, and i'd rather you drive. g jeff If I understand the drift, and the cultural bias, the good side. In fact, Littletons first arrived on the good side in 1673, and have been there, in some number, since. Better sal****er fishing?? I'm not sure, but both VA and the Old North State have some interesting options. One of the cool things about where the old homestead is located is options: The Chesapeake Bay is roughly 4 miles from the house, I can be on Chincoteague/Assateague in under 20 minutes. Choices, choices!! I'll keep you posted, as the whole process goes forward. Tom |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"jeff miller" wrote in message . .. btw, those cdc&elk and the killer caddis i first discovered through you were magic on the madison and nez perce and... well, you know. did the salmonfly ever get going strong? always good to see you harry - here and elsewhere. jeff And speaking of which, does anyone have a good source for the "Type II" CDC feathers that are used for this pattern? Danl |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
Tom Littleton wrote:
"jeff miller" wrote in message . .. half maryland, half virginia. are you gonna be on the good side or the less good side? i think it's about 4-5 hours from here...i've never been on it, though i've been to its sister, chincoteague once. you'll probably want to come this-a-way...better sal****er fishing down here, my boats are here, and i'd rather you drive. g jeff If I understand the drift, and the cultural bias, the good side. In fact, Littletons first arrived on the good side in 1673, and have been there, in some number, since. Better sal****er fishing?? I'm not sure, but both VA and the Old North State have some interesting options. One of the cool things about where the old homestead is located is options: The Chesapeake Bay is roughly 4 miles from the house, I can be on Chincoteague/Assateague in under 20 minutes. Choices, choices!! I'll keep you posted, as the whole process goes forward. Tom all in jest... i'd enjoy a visit to that area in the off season. i went to chincoteague in a cold weather month...beautiful, typical barrier island with lots of migratory waterfowl. once, i went to ocean city...bypassed assateague. i don't like ocean city, just as i don't like atlantic beach down here. i've never fished the chesapeake area, but read a good bit about it...simply no reason to go there when i have the same or better fishing opportunities here, and there are fewer folks here (usually)... the chincoteague bay looks like it ought to have some decent fishing, but i don't hear much about anything except croakers and flounder up there. i know the stripers are reported to make a good run in the chesapeake, and a bit farther south in virginia, rudee inlet is one of the best sal****er striper fishing grounds on the east coast. anyway...you'll have a boat or 3 within a year or two of moving, and you'll be finding the hot spots and joy of sal****er fishing. do you tie sal****er flies???... oh, and best prepare the wife and the pouting room...sal****er fishing is a new and significant budget item that creates many opportunities for late-night "discussions." g jeff jeff |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
"jeff miller" wrote in message . .. all in jest... i'd enjoy a visit to that area in the off season. i went to chincoteague in a cold weather month...beautiful, typical barrier island with lots of migratory waterfowl. once, i went to ocean city...bypassed assateague. Assateague has the reputation(although one wouldn't know it by my experience) of a spectacular fishery. I have, generally, caught fish there, though. General pattern of fishery would be: Early season-trout, then rockfish,then flounder and blues; summer--mostly kings, but big-ass sharks at night; fall--big rockfish(real big), bigger drum(red and black). Chincoteague and Assateague bays generally have spot, croaker, sea bass and flounder, but all sorts of stuff gets lost and wanders in from sharks to rays to bluefish. The bay, I have less experience with, but you probably know the drill, as you say, from your waters, as they share some similarities. Will bear in mind warnings for wife.....g Tom |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
On Aug 6, 4:56*am, jeff miller wrote:
wrote: On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:30:23 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote: wrote in message . .. if you can find them, seek out Canada Goose primary wing biots...dye them in any manner you like and see what a difference they make in the segmented appearance of the body.I think you will *like it http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/...009/hoh139.jpg Thanks, Harry, I will do that. Pronto. Gosh, it is good to see you post around these parts!! I hope you are well. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom Thanks Tom, I'm doing very well, in fact about to hit the five year all's clear mark here pretty soon. Kind of a milestone in the world of angiosarcoma's *: when last i saw you (a few weeks ago) on the banks of the madison, you looked and acted so "well" that it never even crossed my mind that you had experienced any life-threatening health issues. *you were entirely too well, as was i.g good to know we'll have you around for a good long while yet - new flies to discover and new streams to wade. there is something healing and energizing about chasing trout on such waters, eh? * btw, those cdc&elk and the killer caddis i first discovered through you were magic on the madison and nez perce and... *well, you know. *did the salmonfly ever get going strong? always good to see you harry - here and elsewhere. jeff- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - yes there is something healing about chasing fish... that area does help as well :-) as for the salmon flies they never really got up that high...goldens did though... the bugs were late as was the spring so bug wise, we were there mid June, calendar wise, it was mid July. Good to see you and from what I saw you were having a great old time :-) harry |
Quill-bodied mayflies...
On Aug 5, 6:51*am, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
You know, its posts like this one that either assures one, or chastens one that they are not as hardcore as their critics might have intimated. I think I tried to wind biot once, and felt real superior about those times I kinda succeeded in using biot for the short antenna of a large Kaufman's style stonefly. You guys are hardcore. Never mind. :-O Dave Reminds me of a serious discussion of the differing merits of split shot brands I once listened to in shock at a clave a few years back. Keeps one humble. Sort of. |
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