Sage rod advice, no pun
 

I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. I would be
greatful for any advice.

Thanks

Buff

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 14, 4:15*pm, "Rodger" wrote:
I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. * One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. * For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. * I would be
greatful for any advice.

Thanks

Buff

I have that model and a couple of other RPL models, including the 576
RPL Graphite III. I like the actions, and the rods are also very
robust. ( Have not had any car crashes with them though!) Despite
handling a very large number of rods, including the newer Sage rods,
over time, I have never found anything which was really much like
them. The closest I came was a few rods I built myself using an
"older" carbon fibre specification. The general trend is towards ever
faster rods, and has been so for some time. This is reflected in many
of the Sage models.

If you are looking for an "exact" replacement, with regard to action
etc. then I fear that may well be a problem. The only real option is
to try a few rods form various makers in the price range you have set.
You could also get the same rod second hand, there are occasionally a
few being sold at various places. This depends of course on how your
insurance company settles. If they give you cash, then I would
probably try for a second hand model. This is likely to be a great
deal cheaper as well. Of the last few Sages I tried, although a couple
are really great casting rods, I was not overly impressed by them as
fishing rods.

Really difficult to give useful advice here, there are too many
largely subjective impressions involved.

TL
MC

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

Rodger wrote:
I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. I would be
greatful for any advice.

Thanks

Buff



I suggest you call Sage. The rod may also be covered under their
lifetime warranty program. Best way to find out is to give sage a call.

Tim Lysyk

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:15:34 -0500, "Rodger"
wrote:

I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. I would be
greatful for any advice.

If you're looking for guesstimates on a monetary value for your own
information, I'd say somewhere around $300.00 would be fair under the
circumstances (you got rear-ended, so they shouldn't do too much
quibbling if you are on the high side of reasonable), but given that it
was such a popular, common series, a check on eBay ought to give a
pretty fair current "market value." Insurance adjusters use eBay for
such valuations, so many, even most, would readily accept such
documentation.

OTOH, If you're looking for an opinion as to a "performance/'feel'
equivalent" in the current Sage lineup, I have no idea what the "model
replacement path" would be to the current lineup. IIRC, the XP
generally replaced the RPL series, and again IIRC, the XP series has
been replaced at least 2 times, but ???

IAC, I'd call Sage and ask them and then get something in writing from a
Sage dealer for the insurance company as to the current retail price of
whatever Sage says is the replacement as I doubt they are interested in
pricing opinions from a newsgroup when "real" documentation is readily
available.

TC,
R

Thanks

Buff

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

PS. for the purposes of establishing replacement cost, just look at
prices on the newest Sage #5 weights, and take the top of the line.
The RPL´s were once the top of the line anyway.

Some stuff like this may also be of use to you;

http://www.yellowstoneangler.com/Fly...d testing.asp

http://www.outdoorreview.com/cat/fly...1_1389crx.aspx

If you search for #5 wt reviews etc, you will find quite a lot of such
stuff, which may help you find or choose a replacement.

TL
MC

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

Thanks very much to you all for your advice.

One more question...

The other 'good' rod I lost was a G.Loomis, 10' ft., 9 wt, 2 pc.,
for fishing Canada. The only eqivalent Loomis rods I have found so
far are 4 pc. I have not been a fan of anything other than 2 pc. rods
but on a rod of that size it might not make that much difference. Any
opinions on that?

Thanks again,

Buff
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:15:34 -0500, "Rodger"
wrote:

I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss
of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. I would be
greatful for any advice.

If you're looking for guesstimates on a monetary value for your own
information, I'd say somewhere around $300.00 would be fair under the
circumstances (you got rear-ended, so they shouldn't do too much
quibbling if you are on the high side of reasonable), but given that
it
was such a popular, common series, a check on eBay ought to give a
pretty fair current "market value." Insurance adjusters use eBay for
such valuations, so many, even most, would readily accept such
documentation.

OTOH, If you're looking for an opinion as to a "performance/'feel'
equivalent" in the current Sage lineup, I have no idea what the "model
replacement path" would be to the current lineup. IIRC, the XP
generally replaced the RPL series, and again IIRC, the XP series has
been replaced at least 2 times, but ???

IAC, I'd call Sage and ask them and then get something in writing from
a
Sage dealer for the insurance company as to the current retail price
of
whatever Sage says is the replacement as I doubt they are interested
in
pricing opinions from a newsgroup when "real" documentation is readily
available.

TC,
R

Thanks

Buff

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 14, 5:09*pm, "Rodger" wrote:
Thanks very much to you all for your advice.

One more question...

The other 'good' rod I lost was a G.Loomis, 10' ft., 9 wt, 2 pc.,
for fishing Canada. * *The only eqivalent Loomis rods I have found so
far are 4 pc. * *I have not been a fan of anything other than 2 pc. rods
but on a rod of that size it might not make that much difference. *Any
opinions on that?

Thanks again,

It is getting harder and harder to find two piece rods. Most of the
high end rods are now multiple piece rods because that is apparently
what the market wants. As materials and technology have improved,
( and ideas and trends have changed), there is now little if any
perceptible difference in actual action between two and four piece
models, but I have always preferred two piece rods myself. For one
thing, there are less joints, and so less to go wrong!

I have two older Loomis rods which I use occasionally, but I have not
used any of the newer models, except for a couple of casts of friend´s
rods etc.

TL
MC

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:09:37 -0500, "Rodger"
wrote:

Thanks very much to you all for your advice.

One more question...

The other 'good' rod I lost was a G.Loomis, 10' ft., 9 wt, 2 pc.,
for fishing Canada. The only eqivalent Loomis rods I have found so
far are 4 pc. I have not been a fan of anything other than 2 pc. rods
but on a rod of that size it might not make that much difference. Any
opinions on that?

I'd offer the same advice all rods as to the objective stuff -
replacement cost, current model(s), etc.

As to the subjective stuff, well, um, it's subjective, but IMO, you'll
notice very little difference...well, probably no difference...in modern
graphite in the lighter weights, but a 9 is tickling around the
beginnings of a strength issue (IMO). OTOH, I doubt Loomis would offer
a rod that was a warranty issue waiting to happen, so I'd suggest
casting the 4 pc. and if you like it, replace and enjoy. As always,
YMMV.

TC,
R

Thanks again,

Buff
wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:15:34 -0500, "Rodger"
wrote:

I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss
of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. I would be
greatful for any advice.

If you're looking for guesstimates on a monetary value for your own
information, I'd say somewhere around $300.00 would be fair under the
circumstances (you got rear-ended, so they shouldn't do too much
quibbling if you are on the high side of reasonable), but given that
it
was such a popular, common series, a check on eBay ought to give a
pretty fair current "market value." Insurance adjusters use eBay for
such valuations, so many, even most, would readily accept such
documentation.

OTOH, If you're looking for an opinion as to a "performance/'feel'
equivalent" in the current Sage lineup, I have no idea what the "model
replacement path" would be to the current lineup. IIRC, the XP
generally replaced the RPL series, and again IIRC, the XP series has
been replaced at least 2 times, but ???

IAC, I'd call Sage and ask them and then get something in writing from
a
Sage dealer for the insurance company as to the current retail price
of
whatever Sage says is the replacement as I doubt they are interested
in
pricing opinions from a newsgroup when "real" documentation is readily
available.

TC,
R

Thanks

Buff

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:09:37 -0500, "Rodger"
wrote:

The other 'good' rod I lost was a G.Loomis, 10' ft., 9 wt, 2 pc.,
for fishing Canada. The only eqivalent Loomis rods I have found so
far are 4 pc. I have not been a fan of anything other than 2 pc. rods
but on a rod of that size it might not make that much difference. Any
opinions on that?

I doubt you will notice any difference between the equivalent four
piece Loomis and your 2 piece. Believe it or not, the four piece will
be a better caster and easier to travel with.

Your statement begs the question: why a 9 wt for Canada? I use a
Sage XPL in the 7 weight for northern pike and salmon in Canada and
Alaska. Do you use a 9 weight for Atlantic Salmon?

Also, replace your RPL with an XPL. You won't be sorry.

Dave

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

"Rodger" wrote in message
...

I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. I would be
greatful for any advice.

Z-Axis series, $610.00 retail.

Mr. Lysyk gave you "sage" advice. If I recall correctly, when Sage went to
an uncoditional warranty they retro'd the warranty on their old rods that
people had bought prior to the warranty. If you are the original purchaser
of that rod, they may not have any RPL blanks to fix your rod but they may
provide you with their latest replacement at marginal cost.



Oh and Dickie, the XP series was only recently discontinued.

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

"Rodger" wrote in message
...
One more question...

The other 'good' rod I lost was a G.Loomis, 10' ft., 9 wt, 2 pc.,
for fishing Canada. The only eqivalent Loomis rods I have found so
far are 4 pc. I have not been a fan of anything other than 2 pc. rods
but on a rod of that size it might not make that much difference. Any
opinions on that?

I don't think it makes much difference anymore on 2 vs 4 piece rods. However
Loomis does offer it's GLX series in a two piece config that I am
considering for great lakes steelheading. But its not an apples to apples
comparison for you since they have a 10' 8wt, not a 9 wt.

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 14, 5:09*pm, "Rodger" wrote:

The other 'good' rod I lost was a G.Loomis, 10' ft., 9 wt, 2 pc.,
for fishing Canada. * *The only eqivalent Loomis rods I have found so
far are 4 pc. * *I have not been a fan of anything other than 2 pc. rods
but on a rod of that size it might not make that much difference. *Any
opinions on that?



Something else which you may like to consider in this regard, is that
rods have become progressively more "powerful". A lot of rods now
designated as #5 weights are considered by many to be really #6
weights at least.

In the heavier weight ranges this is often even more pronounced.
Personally I don´t like to use anything heavier or longer than a 9´6"
#8 weight for any length of time, and depending on the fishing. Even
for sal****er fishing my main standby is a 9´6" #7 ( which a few
people would also actually consider to be nearer an #8).

Anything longer or heavier in a single handed rod gets to be too much
like work for me now. If I want to use heavier flies etc, then I use a
matched shooting head appropriate to the flies/rod/circumstances.

Many of the newer rods are a bit lighter, but the length is still a
problem.

TL
MC

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

Rodger wrote:
I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. I would be
greatful for any advice.

I broke an RPL two years ago and Sage replaced the broken section
and completely refurbished the rod. Had been pretty beat up --
dirty, scored, chipped grip, dings on the reel seat, etc. -- came
back indistinguishable from a new RPL. If you think that's made
me more "loyal" to Sage as a maker, you're right.

Try it. You might have the same experience.

- JR

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:36:24 -0400, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:


"Rodger" wrote in message
...

I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. I would be
greatful for any advice.

Z-Axis series, $610.00 retail.

Mr. Lysyk gave you "sage" advice. If I recall correctly, when Sage went to
an uncoditional warranty they retro'd the warranty on their old rods that
people had bought prior to the warranty. If you are the original purchaser
of that rod, they may not have any RPL blanks to fix your rod but they may
provide you with their latest replacement at marginal cost.



Oh and Dickie, the XP series was only recently discontinued.

Ah...I tend to not keep up with "old and outdated" and "NEW AND
IMPROVED!!!" I knew that it was, um, "not current," but I wasn't sure
about how many levels of bullsh...er, improvements...that they had
advertis...er, made...

Hell, without consulting model charts, catalogs, and other assorted
bull****, I think the "LATEST AND GREATEST!!!" Sage in my locker is an
LL (or maybe a little later rod, but not much...) and I have no idea
where it fits into the scheme...don't care, too...mated with a Billy
Trout and it fishes fine.

TC,
R

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 14, 8:46*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:36:24 -0400, "Wayne Knight"





wrote:

"Rodger" wrote in message
...

I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. * One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. * For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. * I would be
greatful for any advice.

Z-Axis series, $610.00 retail.

Mr. Lysyk gave you "sage" advice. If I recall correctly, when Sage went to
an uncoditional warranty they retro'd the warranty on their old rods that
people had bought prior to the warranty. If you are the original purchaser
of that rod, they may not have any RPL blanks to fix your rod but they may
provide you with their latest replacement at marginal cost.

Oh and Dickie, the XP series was only recently discontinued.

Ah...I tend to not keep up with "old and outdated" and "NEW AND
IMPROVED!!!" *I knew that it was, um, "not current," but I wasn't sure
about how many levels of bullsh...er, improvements...that they had
advertis...er, made...

Hell, without consulting model charts, catalogs, and other assorted
bull****, I think the "LATEST AND GREATEST!!!" Sage in my locker is an
LL (or maybe a little later rod, but not much...) and I have no idea
where it fits into the scheme...don't care, too...mated with a Billy
Trout and it fishes fine.

TC,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well an LL is one of their best designs of all time IMHO. One of the
last Green designs if I am not mistaken. (Jim (?)Green the designer,
not "green" in the enviro sense) And still sought after. As a matter
of fact, I am going to look for one rat now in defiance of the coming
Black Monday.
Dave

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On 14-Sep-2008, JR wrote:

broke an RPL two years ago and Sage replaced the broken section
and completely refurbished the rod. Had been pretty beat up --
dirty, scored, chipped grip, dings on the reel seat, etc. -- came
back indistinguishable from a new RPL. If you think that's made
me more "loyal" to Sage as a maker, you're right.

Try it. You might have the same experience.

- JR


I recently had a similar experience with nmy Sage 5 wt

repaired and refurbished - only about 4-6 weeks ago

Fred

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

"Rodger" wrote in message
...
I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today.

i know it may be just my individual quirks, but every damned sage i have
ever fished felt as if it had been rear ended and foreshortened.
i'd try to get the insurance money and buy a winston or a scott,
instead.

wayno

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:52:36 -0400, "Wayne Harrison"
wrote:


"Rodger" wrote in message
...
I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today.

i know it may be just my individual quirks, but every damned sage i have
ever fished felt as if it had been rear ended and foreshortened.

Huh...that sorta sounds like it had been....changed...

i'd try to get the insurance money

TRY?! WTF?! Oh, magnanimous mother of merciful Mormons! (or if one
prefers, Jesus Christ on a pony!) - you've been debrief...er,
disbarred!!

and buy a winston or a scott, instead.

Or perhaps a TFO and a good bottle or three of Scotch...

wayno

TC,
R

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 14, 10:15 am, "Rodger" wrote:
I was recently rear ended on the highway resulting in the total loss of
my Yukon along with three flyrods and reels. One of the rods was
a Sage RPL 590 Graphite III, 9', 5 wt., 2 pc....which is now an
unintentional 4 pc. For the insurance claim I have been trying to
establish what model Sage rod is an equivalent today. I would be
greatful for any advice.

Thanks

Buff

Check the "Things For Sale" section at www.flyanglersonline.com.
Someone has that exact rod for sale for $200.

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

wrote in message
...

Ah...I tend to not keep up with "old and outdated" and "NEW AND
IMPROVED!!!" I knew that it was, um, "not current," but I wasn't sure
about how many levels of bullsh...er, improvements...that they had
advertis...er, made...

The why bother answering if you can't answer the question correctly?

Hell, without consulting model charts, catalogs, and other assorted
bull****, I think the "LATEST AND GREATEST!!!" Sage in my locker is an
LL (or maybe a little later rod, but not much...) and I have no idea
where it fits into the scheme...don't care, too...mated with a Billy
Trout and it fishes fine.

IMO, the LL series in the lighter weights were the best rods Sage ever
made. Regardless, whatever business interest the Dean family have, surely
"they" have used some form of "new and improved" in their product
advertising? They wouldn't lie to us consumers would they?

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:32:29 -0400, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Ah...I tend to not keep up with "old and outdated" and "NEW AND
IMPROVED!!!" I knew that it was, um, "not current," but I wasn't sure
about how many levels of bullsh...er, improvements...that they had
advertis...er, made...

The why bother answering if you can't answer the question correctly?

Oh, **** you. I said IIRC, it was 2 (or more) "lines" back, you say
it's only 1. I didn't check, am not gonna check, and don't particularly
care either way.

Hell, without consulting model charts, catalogs, and other assorted
bull****, I think the "LATEST AND GREATEST!!!" Sage in my locker is an
LL (or maybe a little later rod, but not much...) and I have no idea
where it fits into the scheme...don't care, too...mated with a Billy
Trout and it fishes fine.

IMO, the LL series in the lighter weights were the best rods Sage ever
made. Regardless, whatever business interest the Dean family have, surely
"they" have used some form of "new and improved" in their product
advertising? They wouldn't lie to us consumers would they?

No, I wouldn't, and would not tolerate anyone working for me doing it.
If it's a practical and honest improvement where a buyer can realize
true benefit because of the improvement, of course it would be touted,
but if it's some subjective nonsense used solely to encourage the
replacement of perfectly good product with other product, it's not
proper. Aside from the dishonesty of doing it, it's bad business. Now,
I have no problem with simply issuing new models each year, simply
presenting them as "The Latest For 2008", etc. and letting those that
simply must have "this year's model" buy away, but Sage's marketing,
like many other companies, FFing and otherwise, borders on deceptive IMO
- YMMV.

TC,
R

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 16, 5:54*am, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:32:29 -0400, "Wayne Knight"

wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

Ah...I tend to not keep up with "old and outdated" and "NEW AND
IMPROVED!!!" *I knew that it was, um, "not current," but I wasn't sure
about how many levels of bullsh...er, improvements...that they had
advertis...er, made...

The why bother answering if you can't answer the question correctly?

Oh, **** you. *I said IIRC, it was 2 (or more) "lines" back, you say
it's only 1. *I didn't check, am not gonna check, and don't particularly
care either way.



Hell, without consulting model charts, catalogs, and other assorted
bull****, I think the "LATEST AND GREATEST!!!" Sage in my locker is an
LL (or maybe a little later rod, but not much...) and I have no idea
where it fits into the scheme...don't care, too...mated with a Billy
Trout and it fishes fine.

IMO, *the LL series in the lighter weights were the best rods Sage ever
made. Regardless, whatever business interest the Dean family have, surely
"they" have used some form of "new and improved" in their product
advertising? They wouldn't lie to us consumers would they?

No, I wouldn't, and would not tolerate anyone working for me doing it.
If it's a practical and honest improvement where a buyer can realize
true benefit because of the improvement, of course it would be touted,
but if it's some subjective nonsense used solely to encourage the
replacement of perfectly good product with other product, it's not
proper. *Aside from the dishonesty of doing it, it's bad business. *Now,
I have no problem with simply issuing new models each year, simply
presenting them as "The Latest For 2008", etc. and letting those that
simply must have "this year's model" buy away, but Sage's marketing,
like many other companies, FFing and otherwise, borders on deceptive IMO
- YMMV.

TC,
R



Nowhere near as deceptive as the bull**** you propagate here. What a
load of twaddle.

Maybe you should just learn to keep your lying trap shut?

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

In article , JR
wrote:

I broke an RPL two years ago and Sage replaced the broken section
and completely refurbished the rod. Had been pretty beat up --
dirty, scored, chipped grip, dings on the reel seat, etc. -- came
back indistinguishable from a new RPL. If you think that's made
me more "loyal" to Sage as a maker, you're right.

Try it. You might have the same experience.

- JR

It is the only good thing about having to wait 3 weeks while they
rebuild your rod that is broke in half instead of sending out a new rod
they next day like other companies...

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

In article
,
wrote:

Well an LL is one of their best designs of all time IMHO. One of the
last Green designs if I am not mistaken. (Jim (?)Green the designer,
not "green" in the enviro sense) And still sought after. As a matter
of fact, I am going to look for one rat now in defiance of the coming
Black Monday.
Dave

have you tried the zxl?

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

wrote in message
...

Oh, **** you.

You wish. But if you have to swing that way, there's this train station in
the fatherland.......

but Sage's marketing,
like many other companies, FFing and otherwise, borders on deceptive IMO

I generally don't buy new rods anymore, much less Sage rods but Sage does
push the envelope with various plastics and tapers. As I understand it, once
a rod's sales drop below a certain percentage, they essentially figure most
folks who want one already have one and come up with something else. Their
business model seems to work for them and alas, the Sage XP is not the Xi2
is not an LL much less an RPL. Their models do change but new and improved
is in the feel of the person doing the casting and fishing. That's why I
like the LL series, damn thing is so senstitive you can feel the fish fart.

And it's nice to know the Dean family doesn't do New and Improved just to
increase market share.

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

In article ,
wrote:

OTOH, If you're looking for an opinion as to a "performance/'feel'
equivalent" in the current Sage lineup, I have no idea what the "model
replacement path" would be to the current lineup. IIRC, the XP
generally replaced the RPL series, and again IIRC, the XP series has
been replaced at least 2 times, but ???

The xp has been replaced once, by the current z axis

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On 15-Sep-2008, NA wrote:

I broke an RPL two years ago and Sage replaced the broken section
and completely refurbished the rod. Had been pretty beat up --
dirty, scored, chipped grip, dings on the reel seat, etc. -- came
back indistinguishable from a new RPL. If you think that's made
me more "loyal" to Sage as a maker, you're right.

Try it. You might have the same experience.

- JR

It is the only good thing about having to wait 3 weeks while they
rebuild your rod that is broke in half instead of sending out a new rod
they next day like other companies...

I had to pay $50 for my Sage repair - replacement tip and refuurbish
I may have gotten away w/o it but I needed it back fast
I find that w a good Sage rod that I can cast to a dime

However, I have never tried a Winston or Loomis rod.

Fred

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:39:47 -0400, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Oh, **** you.

You wish. But if you have to swing that way, there's this train station in
the fatherland.......

but Sage's marketing,
like many other companies, FFing and otherwise, borders on deceptive IMO

I generally don't buy new rods anymore, much less Sage rods but Sage does
push the envelope with various plastics and tapers. As I understand it, once
a rod's sales drop below a certain percentage, they essentially figure most
folks who want one already have one and come up with something else. Their
business model seems to work for them and alas, the Sage XP is not the Xi2
is not an LL much less an RPL. Their models do change but new and improved
is in the feel of the person doing the casting and fishing. That's why I
like the LL series, damn thing is so senstitive you can feel the fish fart.

I've fished and hunted with a wide range of gear, and IMO, once a
certain level is reached, everything beyond is mere preference or folks
buying into sales hype. If you say Sage pushes the envelope, I tend to
believe it, but I have to wonder if it's an envelope that needs pushing
as far as the vast number of FFers are objectively concerned. Those two
20USD set-ups I mentioned would do the vast majority of fishers who
needed a mid-ish weight rod and reel just dandy, and I'd bet huge sums
that they were made in China and were about "cutting edge" as 1972 Ford
pickup. OTOH, if you break down in Possum Holler at 8:30 on a Saturday
night, chances are you'll be able to find the baling wire to fix the
Ford, even some actual parts and several folks who can help.

However, if you break down in a 2008 Range Rover, and the
titanium-reenforced computer-controlled envelope-pushing cross-linked
OnStarGPS button, when pushed, will explain that you'll be required to
airfreight a team of mechanics over from England to lovingly hand-carry
the thing to a sterile clean room in East Rockaway, NJ where they'll
give it a sedative before getting to work on it with autoclaved Metric
wrenches...all for a mere 27 grand or so...I know what you're thinking -
"Naw, you say, it'd be under warranty..." The warranties on such items
don't apply when the product is subjected to a Possum Holler Saturday
night...

And it's nice to know the Dean family doesn't do New and Improved just to
increase market share.

Shoot, no - we make money the really old-fashioned way...beat it out of
the serfs...

TC,
R

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 16, 12:50*am, wrote:

Just so there is no mistake Mr.Knight, I am quite disgusted and not a
little disappointed at your use of the reference.

I have tried to stay out of this fray you and others seem to
constantly want to engage in as much as possible. I remember the
specific comments about the behaviors that troubled you and the
instantaneous holier than thou responses that has led to this multi-
year flame fest. Personally I wish everyone would give it a rest as I
read your initial comments not so much homophobic as something more
along the lines of a culture clash which has led to an even bigger,
longer lasting culture clash.

However whatever else happens, the train station image, and only the
train station image provides an opportunity for parody and satire. It
was in that context that I made my response to Richard.

And no it's not acceptable to use racial slurs in pleasant
conversation, alas there is nothing I can, nor to my knowledge, anyone
else can do to prevent it. I didn't like Dickie's Richard Pryor
references either, at least in the way he presented it. But no one has
appointed me lord and master over the newsgroup and to my knowledge,
we don't collectively have access to the various servers that would
allow us to delete "offensive posts."

In other words, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, just trying to ensure
the "**** you" did not escalate into something bigger.

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 16, 9:25*am, wrote:

I've fished and hunted with a wide range of gear, and IMO, once a
certain level is reached, everything beyond is mere preference or folks
buying into sales hype. *If you say Sage pushes the envelope, I tend to
believe it, but I have to wonder if it's an envelope that needs pushing
as far as the vast number of FFers are objectively concerned.

Be it education, profession, or recreation, most people's "evolve"
over time. And as it applies to fly fishing, the individuals
preferences and the ability to get the "most" out of the equipment
will evolve over time. Sage and the rest of the tackle makers stay in
business making and selling rods/reels/etc. As you know, if they can't
convince someone to buy their rods then they aren't going to survive.
As much as I liked the LL series, if they had kept to that, I doubt
they'd be doing much business now.

pickup. *OTOH, if you break down in Possum Holler at 8:30 on a Saturday
night, chances are you'll be able to find the baling wire to fix the
Ford, even some actual parts and several folks who can help. *

Now you're bringing back painful memories. Ever had a BMW X5 fuel pump
go out on a UP "highway" on a Friday night? Not a good thing, but in
retrospect better to have it go out there then some of the places I
had it earlier in the week. Mr. Reid would have had new tales to tell.

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:01:39 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Sep 16, 12:50*am, wrote:

Just so there is no mistake Mr.Knight, I am quite disgusted and not a
little disappointed at your use of the reference.

I have tried to stay out of this fray you and others seem to
constantly want to engage in as much as possible. I remember the
specific comments about the behaviors that troubled you and the
instantaneous holier than thou responses that has led to this multi-
year flame fest. Personally I wish everyone would give it a rest as I
read your initial comments not so much homophobic as something more
along the lines of a culture clash which has led to an even bigger,
longer lasting culture clash.

However whatever else happens, the train station image, and only the
train station image provides an opportunity for parody and satire. It
was in that context that I made my response to Richard.

And no it's not acceptable to use racial slurs in pleasant
conversation, alas there is nothing I can, nor to my knowledge, anyone
else can do to prevent it. I didn't like Dickie's Richard Pryor
references either, at least in the way he presented it. But no one has
appointed me lord and master over the newsgroup and to my knowledge,
we don't collectively have access to the various servers that would
allow us to delete "offensive posts."

In other words, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, just trying to ensure
the "**** you" did not escalate into something bigger.

**** you, Cho...er, Knight...why do you hate America...?

HTH,
Dickie

And for the record, the Pryor post wasn't intended to be "funny" as
such. I was amused at Obama and his minions immediately bringing up the
fact that McCain had used the "lipstick on a pig..." comment in trying
to deny that Obama's comment was connected to Palin's "lipstick,
pitbulls, and soccer moms" shtick. Anyone with a lick of sense (and
even those without, such as his audience...), including Obama himself,
knew he meant to connect them. He knew what he was doing, he just
totally miscalculated the effect of it. And I don't think he meant it
as sexist (well, not exactly) but to claim he wasn't referencing it in
the swipe at Palin and McCain was flat-out horse****.

I had a pretty good idea of the reaction to my post, and the reaction
was pretty much as expected. I admit I did find it amusing that folks
who typically defend Obama's comments are the ones who not only did the
most vocal judging of my post, but did the mental connection from a
non-existent actual connection - they saw an album title and a link to
Obama and connected the two when no such connection was actually
technically made. No one seem outraged because of making an alleged
connection asking if Obama was "Serious?" or thinking folks were worked
up over something "That (he) Said?" - they saw the one word and
instantly made the connection.

TC,
R

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:01:39 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Sep 16, 12:50 am, wrote:

Just so there is no mistake Mr.Knight, I am quite disgusted and not a
little disappointed at your use of the reference.

I have tried to stay out of this fray you and others seem to
constantly want to engage in as much as possible. I remember the
specific comments about the behaviors that troubled you and the
instantaneous holier than thou responses that has led to this multi-
year flame fest. Personally I wish everyone would give it a rest as I
read your initial comments not so much homophobic as something more
along the lines of a culture clash which has led to an even bigger,
longer lasting culture clash.

However whatever else happens, the train station image, and only the
train station image provides an opportunity for parody and satire. It
was in that context that I made my response to Richard.

And no it's not acceptable to use racial slurs in pleasant
conversation, alas there is nothing I can, nor to my knowledge, anyone
else can do to prevent it. I didn't like Dickie's Richard Pryor
references either, at least in the way he presented it. But no one has
appointed me lord and master over the newsgroup and to my knowledge,
we don't collectively have access to the various servers that would
allow us to delete "offensive posts."

In other words, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, just trying to ensure
the "**** you" did not escalate into something bigger.

**** you, Cho...er, Knight...why do you hate America...?

HTH,
Dickie

And for the record, the Pryor post wasn't intended to be "funny" as
such. I was amused at Obama and his minions immediately bringing up the
fact that McCain had used the "lipstick on a pig..." comment in trying
to deny that Obama's comment was connected to Palin's "lipstick,
pitbulls, and soccer moms" shtick. Anyone with a lick of sense (and
even those without, such as his audience...), including Obama himself,
knew he meant to connect them. He knew what he was doing, he just
totally miscalculated the effect of it. And I don't think he meant it
as sexist (well, not exactly) but to claim he wasn't referencing it in
the swipe at Palin and McCain was flat-out horse****.

I had a pretty good idea of the reaction to my post, and the reaction
was pretty much as expected. I admit I did find it amusing that folks
who typically defend Obama's comments are the ones who not only did the
most vocal judging of my post, but did the mental connection from a
non-existent actual connection - they saw an album title and a link to
Obama and connected the two when no such connection was actually
technically made. No one seem outraged because of making an alleged
connection asking if Obama was "Serious?" or thinking folks were worked
up over something "That (he) Said?" - they saw the one word and
instantly made the connection.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Wolfgang

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:20:34 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Sep 16, 9:25*am, wrote:

I've fished and hunted with a wide range of gear, and IMO, once a
certain level is reached, everything beyond is mere preference or folks
buying into sales hype. *If you say Sage pushes the envelope, I tend to
believe it, but I have to wonder if it's an envelope that needs pushing
as far as the vast number of FFers are objectively concerned.

Be it education, profession, or recreation, most people's "evolve"
over time. And as it applies to fly fishing, the individuals
preferences and the ability to get the "most" out of the equipment
will evolve over time. Sage and the rest of the tackle makers stay in
business making and selling rods/reels/etc. As you know, if they can't
convince someone to buy their rods then they aren't going to survive.
As much as I liked the LL series, if they had kept to that, I doubt
they'd be doing much business now.

Sure they would. I don't begrudge a company making new models simply
for the sake of doing so and to be able to sell them to folks who just
gotta have the latest and greatest. Where I do begrudge them is when
they start in with the BS about how it's gonna make you a better fisher,
caster, person, etc. Experienced, even moderately so, fishers and
casters are at their own peril as they should know better, but novices
don't know any better.

So for you novices who might read this: No rod, Sage or otherwise, at
any price, is going to turn you into a cross between Lefty Kreh and
Steve Rajeff. There is no "Excalibur" out there that you can pull from
a magical rack and become king. If you _want_ a $500 or $5000USD rod,
and can blithely pay for it without a second thought, go for it, but if
you think doing so will be an objectively wise monetary and fishing
decision, you're kidding yourself. I've seen and done a lot of fishing
and hunting and I will _promise_ you that expensive gear is _rarely_
even the wise economic choice, much less necessary. And yes, as I'm
sure will be pointed out, I do have some high-dollar gear, but I have it
because I want it. I make no claim to myself or anyone else that it is
necessary or was "a smart investment" (although some of it has turned
out to be so, should I ever sell it).

pickup. *OTOH, if you break down in Possum Holler at 8:30 on a Saturday
night, chances are you'll be able to find the baling wire to fix the
Ford, even some actual parts and several folks who can help. *

Now you're bringing back painful memories. Ever had a BMW X5 fuel pump
go out on a UP "highway" on a Friday night? Not a good thing, but in
retrospect better to have it go out there then some of the places I
had it earlier in the week. Mr. Reid would have had new tales to tell.

No, but I have had the neutral safety switch plug ripped off of the
sensor of the tranny of a 88 Grand Wagoneer while driving snow-covered
lease roads in the middle of pheasant hunting between Hardesty and Slap
Out on a Sunday afternoon. In fact, IIRC, it was the same week some
asshole then from Kansas was gonna come with us, but couldn't make it
down. IAC, I called the owner of a service station in Perryton at home,
he said to run by his boneyard and cut one from any of the Dodges on the
back row. I suspect that had I called about a fuel pump about a BMW,
he'd have hung up on me...

TC,
R

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:20:34 -0700 (PDT), Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Sep 16, 9:25 am, wrote:

I've fished and hunted with a wide range of gear, and IMO, once a
certain level is reached, everything beyond is mere preference or folks
buying into sales hype. If you say Sage pushes the envelope, I tend to
believe it, but I have to wonder if it's an envelope that needs pushing
as far as the vast number of FFers are objectively concerned.

Be it education, profession, or recreation, most people's "evolve"
over time. And as it applies to fly fishing, the individuals
preferences and the ability to get the "most" out of the equipment
will evolve over time. Sage and the rest of the tackle makers stay in
business making and selling rods/reels/etc. As you know, if they can't
convince someone to buy their rods then they aren't going to survive.
As much as I liked the LL series, if they had kept to that, I doubt
they'd be doing much business now.

Sure they would. I don't begrudge a company making new models simply
for the sake of doing so and to be able to sell them to folks who just
gotta have the latest and greatest. Where I do begrudge them is when
they start in with the BS about how it's gonna make you a better fisher,
caster, person, etc. Experienced, even moderately so, fishers and
casters are at their own peril as they should know better, but novices
don't know any better.

So for you novices who might read this: No rod, Sage or otherwise, at
any price, is going to turn you into a cross between Lefty Kreh and
Steve Rajeff. There is no "Excalibur" out there that you can pull from
a magical rack and become king. If you _want_ a $500 or $5000USD rod,
and can blithely pay for it without a second thought, go for it, but if
you think doing so will be an objectively wise monetary and fishing
decision, you're kidding yourself. I've seen and done a lot of fishing
and hunting and I will _promise_ you that expensive gear is _rarely_
even the wise economic choice, much less necessary. And yes, as I'm
sure will be pointed out, I do have some high-dollar gear, but I have it
because I want it. I make no claim to myself or anyone else that it is
necessary or was "a smart investment" (although some of it has turned
out to be so, should I ever sell it).

pickup. OTOH, if you break down in Possum Holler at 8:30 on a Saturday
night, chances are you'll be able to find the baling wire to fix the
Ford, even some actual parts and several folks who can help.

Now you're bringing back painful memories. Ever had a BMW X5 fuel pump
go out on a UP "highway" on a Friday night? Not a good thing, but in
retrospect better to have it go out there then some of the places I
had it earlier in the week. Mr. Reid would have had new tales to tell.

No, but I have had the neutral safety switch plug ripped off of the
sensor of the tranny of a 88 Grand Wagoneer while driving snow-covered
lease roads in the middle of pheasant hunting between Hardesty and Slap
Out on a Sunday afternoon. In fact, IIRC, it was the same week some
asshole then from Kansas was gonna come with us, but couldn't make it
down. IAC, I called the owner of a service station in Perryton at home,
he said to run by his boneyard and cut one from any of the Dodges on the
back row. I suspect that had I called about a fuel pump about a BMW,
he'd have hung up on me...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Wolfgang

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 16, 4:01*pm, Wayne Knight wrote:
On Sep 16, 12:50*am, wrote:

Just so there is no mistake Mr.Knight, I am quite disgusted and not a
little disappointed at your use of the reference.

I have tried to stay out of this fray you and others seem to
constantly want to engage in as much as possible. I remember the
specific comments about the behaviors that troubled you and the
instantaneous holier than thou responses that has led to this multi-
year flame fest. Personally I wish everyone would give it a rest as I
read your initial comments not so much homophobic as something more
along the lines of a culture clash which has led to an even bigger,
longer lasting culture clash.

However whatever else happens, the train station image, and only the
train station image provides an opportunity for parody and satire. It
was in that context that I made my response to Richard.

And no it's not acceptable to use racial slurs in pleasant
conversation, alas there is nothing I can, nor to my knowledge, anyone
else *can do to prevent it. I didn't like Dickie's Richard Pryor
references either, at least in the way he presented it. But no one has
appointed me lord and master over the newsgroup and to my knowledge,
we don't collectively have access to the various servers that would
allow us to delete "offensive posts."

In other words, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, just trying to ensure
the "**** you" did not escalate into something bigger.

Seems reasonable enough I suppose. Unfortunately, due to the constant
lying propaganda, the "train station image" is now irrevocably bound
to my person. I am only too well aware that there is very little one
can do about anything here. Nevertheless, what little I can do I will.
There is also more others could do, but don´t.

Peer pressure would have some effect in many cases. Many of these
things occur simply because nobody protests and the perpetrators
constantly become bolder. You might well be the object of the next
attack, and nobody will lift a finger to help, simply because you didn
´t help either.

I realise I had a lot more to lose in real terms than most of you, and
indeed I accept that is was a mistake to ever use this group at all,
unfortunately there is no way to undo that now.

As far as Dean´s offensive spoutings are concerned, I did think it odd
and pretty disgraceful that Myron was basically the only one with the
gumption to speak out initially, and I considered his stance worthy of
support. That is all.

Anyway, I never had any argument with you, and don´t wish for one now.

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 16, 1:33*pm, wrote:

Anyway, I never had any argument with you, and don´t wish for one now

Same here

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:33:07 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sep 16, 4:01*pm, Wayne Knight wrote:
On Sep 16, 12:50*am, wrote:

Just so there is no mistake Mr.Knight, I am quite disgusted and not a
little disappointed at your use of the reference.

I have tried to stay out of this fray you and others seem to
constantly want to engage in as much as possible. I remember the
specific comments about the behaviors that troubled you and the
instantaneous holier than thou responses that has led to this multi-
year flame fest. Personally I wish everyone would give it a rest as I
read your initial comments not so much homophobic as something more
along the lines of a culture clash which has led to an even bigger,
longer lasting culture clash.

However whatever else happens, the train station image, and only the
train station image provides an opportunity for parody and satire. It
was in that context that I made my response to Richard.

And no it's not acceptable to use racial slurs in pleasant
conversation, alas there is nothing I can, nor to my knowledge, anyone
else *can do to prevent it. I didn't like Dickie's Richard Pryor
references either, at least in the way he presented it. But no one has
appointed me lord and master over the newsgroup and to my knowledge,
we don't collectively have access to the various servers that would
allow us to delete "offensive posts."

In other words, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, just trying to ensure
the "**** you" did not escalate into something bigger.

Seems reasonable enough I suppose. Unfortunately, due to the constant
lying propaganda, the "train station image" is now irrevocably bound
to my person. I am only too well aware that there is very little one
can do about anything here. Nevertheless, what little I can do I will.
There is also more others could do, but don´t.

Peer pressure would have some effect in many cases. Many of these
things occur simply because nobody protests and the perpetrators
constantly become bolder. You might well be the object of the next
attack, and nobody will lift a finger to help, simply because you didn
´t help either.

I realise I had a lot more to lose in real terms than most of you, and
indeed I accept that is was a mistake to ever use this group at all,
unfortunately there is no way to undo that now.

As far as Dean´s offensive spoutings are concerned, I did think it odd
and pretty disgraceful that Myron was basically the only one with the
gumption to speak out initially, and I considered his stance worthy of
support. That is all.

Anyway, I never had any argument with you, and don´t wish for one now.

Michael, your skin is too thin to be on roff. You have never been
able to take criticism of *any* sort *from the very beginning*. You
lost it a long time ago when someone made a t-shirt mocking you.

I ask a question in all sincerity: How did anyone on roff cause you
to drop your fishing site? It seems to me and to others that you come
to roff to fight. If that is the case, you have come into a bar,
inhabited mostly by Americans, and you are going to get your ass
kicked. There is no reason whatsoever for you to remove your site.
No one on roff *cares* whether it is up and successful, or down in
shame. You come to roff - no one is forcing you to be here. And it
can be traced very easily and shownw that it is you who start most of
these ****ing contests.

If I was as unhappy as you, angry at everyone on a fishing group, I
sure as hell wouldn't go there, and if I did, I wouldn't try to pick a
fight. You should leave roff, or find a way to not start these
****ing contest. You present actions are not those of a sane man.

Dave

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 16, 8:02*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:


Michael, your skin is too thin to be on roff. *You have never been
able to take criticism of *any* sort *from the very beginning*. *You
lost it a long time ago when someone made a t-shirt mocking you. *

I ask a question in all sincerity: *How did anyone on roff cause you
to drop your fishing site? *It seems to me and to others that you come
to roff to fight. *If that is the case, you have come into a bar,
inhabited mostly by Americans, and you are going to get your ass
kicked. *There is no reason whatsoever for you to remove your site.
No one on roff *cares* whether it is up and successful, or down in
shame. *You come to roff - no one is forcing you to be here. *And it
can be traced very easily and shownw that it is you who start most of
these ****ing contests. *

If I was as unhappy as you, angry at everyone on a fishing group, I
sure as hell wouldn't go there, and if I did, I wouldn't try to pick a
fight. *You should leave roff, or find a way to not start these
****ing contest. *You present actions are not those of a sane man.

Dave

This is not a fishing group LaCourse, you and others have seen to
that, it is a ****ing disgrace, now largely populated by dick
dribbling liars who thinks it´s "fun" to libel, denigrate, and insult
others, regardless of any consequences.

This isn´t a bar, and even if it was you couldn´t kick my ass you
****ing stupid old degenerate. You apparently live in some weird
fantasy world and badly need a reailty check.

Nobody, least of all me, much cares what you think or write you stupid
old *******, and it makes no difference to me if all the stupid Yanks
in Christendom congregated here.

Other people have tried and tried and tried to get you to be sensible
and reasonable on many matters. You are just too ****ing stupid to
grasp it.

In the meantime, i will just keep plugging away at you and otzhers
here, hoping that your dribble dick falls off, or something else
really nice happens to you.

Sage rod advice, no pun
 

On Sep 16, 11:14*am, wrote:

Snipped Mikey gibber about this not being a fishing group.

So Mikey, why do you bring your **** to a thread that is about Sage
FISHING RODS? Maybe because what you are about is that it ALL has to
be about you or you whine. I suspect you've done a lot of whining in
your time, and if you havn't noticed men, particularly sportsmen do
not like whiners and moma's boys. I suspect that the same **** got
your ass kicked in Ireland or England or wherever you whined away your
youth.

You have always been welcomed as a fly fishing poster, but not as a
spoiled whiner. Frankly most of us have raised our kids and do not
feel obligated to constantly reassure an American-hating, 50
something, whining, pain in the ass.
Cowboy up and get on with life.
Dave