Nobody told him
 

I saw something today that left me dumbfounded.

I was watching a spin fisherman from my window and initially pooh-poohed
him, having watched many unseccesful spin fishermen at that point on the
river I view from my front window. He'd been there for a couple hrs and I
decided to get my binoculars to see if I could see any fish in the water on
a stringer. Before I could retrieve my binocs, I noticed him put something
dark and long in his old style canvas fishing bag and prepare to leave. I
decided to meet him when he crossed the bridge to see how he did.

To my astonishment, as we closed near his truck, I noticed what I thought
had been a rather large spoon spinning lure ...and the basis of my
skepticism as to his certain non-success... was actually a clear oblong
bobber. What the...? We greeted and I asked how he did. He didn't say
anything at first, seemingly waiting to make truck-fall. When he put his
pole and bag down, I asked if he caught anything and he gave me a glance
that obviously meant, "jes wait and I'll show you".

He opened his well-worn bag and pulled out a steel-brass stringer that
looked like it could hold 10lb salmon or bonito and flopped two nice browns
on his open tail-gate, one about 12", the other about 14". "Nice", I said.

But, I was more intrigued by his tackle. He seemed to think it nothing and
casually revealed his rig. It was a clear bobber on the spin line and from
the bobber, a like-sized 4' tippet going to a single fly. ???? I asked what
it was and he told me it was a double renegade fly, about 10-12. Not a
weighted rooster-tail with hackles, just a plain ol fly with the bobber
providing needed weight and flotation. Whoa!

This flew in the face of everything I'd worked so hard to learn about fly
fishing and presentation and.... Well, let's just say I was stunned. I'd
watched his technique from my window. It was pure spin fishing. Cast to
the far side of the river (about 25-30yds) and retrieve accross the current
at a moderate spin lure pace. That means the fly was being dragged across
the water like a freakin motorboat, wake and all. No natural floating
presentation with required mends and twictches and such. Just drag that
sucker across the water, by god! What trout in its right mind would go for
that?

He went on to relate how he'd always used this technique and had actually
caught about 6 fish total, that day, keeping only the two larger. What
could I say? "You can't do it that way!"? I came home and tossed my Cabela
FF catalog in the trash. :\

nb

Nobody told him
 

notbob wrote:
I saw something today that left me dumbfounded. ...

Casting bubbles are standard equipment for spin fisherman
who want to fish flies.

Most of us don't use fly rods because it's the best and
easiest way to catch a trout because, truth be told, in
most cases it's usually not. The spin guys and bait guys
will almost always take more fish, but then taking the most
fish isn't really the point of fly fishing for a lot of
fly fishermen.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Nobody told him
 

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 02:05:02 GMT, notbob wrote:

I saw something today that left me dumbfounded.

I was watching a spin fisherman from my window and initially pooh-poohed
him, having watched many unseccesful spin fishermen at that point on the
river I view from my front window. He'd been there for a couple hrs and I
decided to get my binoculars to see if I could see any fish in the water on
a stringer. Before I could retrieve my binocs, I noticed him put something
dark and long in his old style canvas fishing bag and prepare to leave. I
decided to meet him when he crossed the bridge to see how he did.

To my astonishment, as we closed near his truck, I noticed what I thought
had been a rather large spoon spinning lure ...and the basis of my
skepticism as to his certain non-success... was actually a clear oblong
bobber. What the...? We greeted and I asked how he did. He didn't say
anything at first, seemingly waiting to make truck-fall. When he put his
pole and bag down, I asked if he caught anything and he gave me a glance
that obviously meant, "jes wait and I'll show you".

He opened his well-worn bag and pulled out a steel-brass stringer that
looked like it could hold 10lb salmon or bonito and flopped two nice browns
on his open tail-gate, one about 12", the other about 14". "Nice", I said.

But, I was more intrigued by his tackle. He seemed to think it nothing and
casually revealed his rig. It was a clear bobber on the spin line and from
the bobber, a like-sized 4' tippet going to a single fly. ???? I asked what
it was and he told me it was a double renegade fly, about 10-12. Not a
weighted rooster-tail with hackles, just a plain ol fly with the bobber
providing needed weight and flotation. Whoa!

This flew in the face of everything I'd worked so hard to learn about fly
fishing and presentation and.... Well, let's just say I was stunned. I'd
watched his technique from my window. It was pure spin fishing. Cast to
the far side of the river (about 25-30yds) and retrieve accross the current
at a moderate spin lure pace. That means the fly was being dragged across
the water like a freakin motorboat, wake and all. No natural floating
presentation with required mends and twictches and such. Just drag that
sucker across the water, by god! What trout in its right mind would go for
that?

He went on to relate how he'd always used this technique and had actually
caught about 6 fish total, that day, keeping only the two larger. What
could I say? "You can't do it that way!"? I came home and tossed my Cabela
FF catalog in the trash. :\

nb

Well, it's obvious...the trout in question didn't even get the Cabela's
FF catalog to throw away...

What's so surprising? Trout have instincts, sometimes to their
downfall. If a nekkid supermodel with BIG ol' titties and a Brazilian
job walked up to you and said, "let's ****, you, me, right here, right
now!," and your wife, girlfriend, or your own personal two-bit hooker
said, "aw, sweetie, she's hotter than a two-dollar pistol, you go for
it!," would you worry about the way it's "supposed to happen?" And if
she said, "aw, you don't need to bag it, I'm clean and on the pill,"
what would you do...? Yep...get a shot and thank Jesus for Norlevo and
Rowe v. Wade...

HTH,
R

Nobody told him
 

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 02:05:02 GMT, notbob wrote:
I saw something today that left me dumbfounded.
[...]

Seems like the title shouldda been "Nobody Told Me" ;-)

Aside from the use of bubble floats with casting gear to enable the use of
flies, there's even a specific class of fly tied for the purpose of dragging
on the surface, called a "wake fly", most often touted for fishing for
steelhead...

/daytripper

Nobody told him
 

On 2008-10-18, Ken Fortenberry wrote:

fish isn't really the point of fly fishing for a lot of
fly fishermen.

Well, I'm not going to give up in midstream, so to speak. I'm flyfishing
and I'll continue doing so. It was just an eye opener. Besides, I'll get a
new catalog next season.

nb

Nobody told him
 

On 2008-10-18, wrote:

downfall. If a nekkid supermodel with BIG ol' titties and a Brazilian
job walked up to you and said, "let's ****, you, me, right here, right
now!,".......

I keep looking for her, but no luck.

nb

Nobody told him
 

On 2008-10-18, daytripper wrote:

on the surface, called a "wake fly", most often touted for fishing for
steelhead...

I looked up dbl renegade and it was called an attractor fly. I'll hafta get
me one.

nb

Nobody told him
 

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:15:19 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2008-10-18, daytripper wrote:

on the surface, called a "wake fly", most often touted for fishing for
steelhead...

I looked up dbl renegade and it was called an attractor fly. I'll hafta get
me one.

nb

Any dry fly will attract fish if it is swung across the current at the
end of a drift creating a wake. Harry Mason's Killer Caddis works
extremely well with this approach as does a Goddard Caddis or a
Stimulator. Brook trout, landlocked salmon, dolly varden, et al love
a dry fly swung across the current. While retrieving, dipping the fly
below the surface and letting it pop to the surface will also attract
hits.

Dave

Nobody told him
 

On 2008-10-18, Dave LaCourse wrote:

Any dry fly will attract fish if it is swung across the current at the
end of a drift creating a wake. Harry Mason's Killer Caddis works
extremely well with this approach as does a Goddard Caddis or a
Stimulator. Brook trout, landlocked salmon, dolly varden, et al love
a dry fly swung across the current. While retrieving, dipping the fly
below the surface and letting it pop to the surface will also attract
hits.

Thanks for the info, Dave. I'll put those on my list.

I was out of the FF loop for most of this summer for various reasons, but am
back on the bank. No waders, yet, but can still reach a lot of aquastate.
Having spotty luck. Caught one, but flipped out of hand. One rose to fly,
but didn't hook. Maybe better luck today. My casting is getting better, no
wind knots yesterday.

I'm beginning to actually enjoy FF, though I still suck at it. My recent
acquisition of clip-on magnifiers has improved all aspects exponentially.
:)

nb

Nobody told him
 

On Oct 17, 8:24*pm, daytripper wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 02:05:02 GMT, notbob wrote:
I saw something today that left me dumbfounded. *

[...]

Seems like the title shouldda been "Nobody Told Me" ;-)

Aside from the use of bubble floats with casting gear to enable the use of
flies, there's even a specific class of fly tied for the purpose of dragging
on the surface, called a "wake fly", most often touted for fishing for
steelhead...

/daytripper

Im assuming that most folks know to fish ovipositing caddis across the
current, waking, bouncing etc. Right? And even splashes for big
October caddis?

Dave

Nobody told him
 

On 2008-10-18, DaveS wrote:

Im assuming that most folks know to fish ovipositing caddis across the
current, waking, bouncing etc. Right? And even splashes for big
October caddis?

I'm assuming you mean preggo flies. Care to name a few?

I'm still pretty green on fly names. I have a couple dozen, now, but can
only actually name a quarter of them. I'm starting to get the general idea
about types (fly vs nymph) and hackle types (cdc, elk-hair, etc) and can
identify general types, but not so familiar I can distinguish a zebra from a
hot prince (have both, but forgot which is which) without hitting a few
websites.... again. ;)

nb

Nobody told him
 

"DaveS" wrote

Im assuming that most folks know


One thing that I get reminded of several times each season is just how much
there is to learn in FFing. After many years it becomes very possible to
assume far too much knowledge on the part of anglers we might meet, most
have very limited experience/ knowledge compared to we fanatics.



My favorite story, thus far, to illustrate this happened on the Madison,
right where Riverside drive meets the main road in the Park.

I was fishing the flat water just above where the miles of riffles start,
and doing well. Another angler arrived and got in near me. Each time I
got a fish, he moved nearer, apparently thinking I had the 'good spot'
although I was moving about a lot, fishing to spotted fish. After a while
he got too close for my comfort and polite fishing, so I mentioned that
there had been several rises near him on the side away from me, trying to
indicate " back off there are fish everywhere, give others some space" but
in a nice wayG.

To this he finally asked THE question, "What are you using?"

I replied, "A small Rusty Spinner."

Him, "OH !! I don't fish with spinners, I'M a FLY fisherman."

Nobody told him
 

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 11:18:31 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On Oct 17, 8:24*pm, daytripper wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 02:05:02 GMT, notbob wrote:
I saw something today that left me dumbfounded. *

[...]

Seems like the title shouldda been "Nobody Told Me" ;-)

Aside from the use of bubble floats with casting gear to enable the use of
flies, there's even a specific class of fly tied for the purpose of dragging
on the surface, called a "wake fly", most often touted for fishing for
steelhead...

/daytripper

Im assuming that most folks know to fish ovipositing caddis across the
current, waking, bouncing etc. Right? And even splashes for big
October caddis?

Dave

In certain, riffly sections of streams, I'll often cast directly downstream
and "hop" a bushy caddis pattern back to me a few inches at a time. By letting
the line get tight then"snapping" it I can get the fly to pop virtually
straight up, then gather a half-foot of line in, let the fly hit the water,
then repeat, until it's time to cast back out again. It can be a very deadly
technique indeed...

/daytripper

Nobody told him
 

On Oct 18, 11:33*am, notbob wrote:

Well, adults caddis come in every size imaginable and there are
dozens and dozens of caddisfly patterns. Most common in the West I
would guess is the Elk hair caddis, and variants of the same w/ wings
laid flat or splayed. And generic Stimulators in smaller sizes and
tied sparse are also common. Sometimes a bit of glow orange is added
as a tag, being a wishful egg sac to mimic the egg laying
(ovipositing) female. Since most of the fished caddis hatch comes
after dusk in fading light, a dark caddis fly seems to work better,
the theory being that it is more visible against the sky. And mostly
you focus on the riffles, and the head of the pool. When the full
caddis hatch is on, it is still possible to find stragglers at dawn.
Fish the fly like a flagged out drunk coming home. Cast into the head
of the pool and let it drift down into the pool with a minimum of
action.

Someone else might fill you in on how to fish the earlier life stages
of the caddis and the other bugs. There are some incredible nymphers
who occasionally post here and hopefully are still lurking . I am
definitely not one.

As to your comments about the huge number of fly patterns....
One shortcut is to first focus on the principle types of insects, and
other fish foods. Then stock generic patterns that give impressions of
multiple bugs. For the "mayflies" the old generics (Adams, Cahill,
Hendrickson), still work. Fishing generics and attractors helps you to
focus on presentation, rather than exact imitation.

"Mayflies," Floating/sinking, big/small, light/dark
Caddis flys, Floating/sinking, big/small, light/dark
Stone flys, Floating/sinking, big/small, light/dark
True flies, (diptera.)
Terestials: Hoppers, ants, beetles etc
Little fish: Streamers
Odds and ends: tiny rodents, crayfish, worms, eggs

Dave

Nobody told him
 

notbob wrote in
:

I was watching a spin fisherman from my window and initially pooh-poohed
him,

I think a good spin fisherman will outfish a good fly fisherman most of the
time, and certainly have a better chance under a wider variety of
conditions.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Nobody told him
 

On 2008-10-19, Scott Seidman wrote:

I think a good spin fisherman will outfish a good fly fisherman most of the
time, and certainly have a better chance under a wider variety of
conditions.

heh heh.....

Well, I appreciate a good challenge and probably have slight tendency toward
masochism. After all, I'm still here, ain't I! ;)

nb

Nobody told him
 

On 2008-10-19, daytripper wrote:

In certain, riffly sections of streams, I'll often cast directly downstream
and "hop" a bushy caddis pattern back to me a few inches at a time. By letting
the line get tight then"snapping" it I can get the fly to pop virtually
straight up, then gather a half-foot of line in, let the fly hit the water,
then repeat, until it's time to cast back out again. It can be a very deadly
technique indeed...

I'll give this a try, dt. I have a good riffle section I can't access from
shore. I picked up an "attractor" fly and madam-x parachute, yesterday.
Both look pretty good as a preggo caddis (judging from my limited experience
and the advice of the local fly shop). I'll also try a little earlier,
around 12-2pm, the time the spin/fly guy said was productive on this
stretch. I see several fly fishermen go down to the river later in the
afternoon/evening, as the shadows are crossing the river, but I don't see
them being successful. What do you make of that?

Again, thank you for taking the time to listen and give advice. News at six!
;)

nb

Nobody told him
 

On Oct 19, 9:17*am, Scott Seidman wrote:
notbob wrote :

I was watching a spin fisherman from my window and initially pooh-poohed
him,

I think a good spin fisherman will outfish a good fly fisherman most of the
time, and certainly have a better chance under a wider variety of
conditions.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

But Ive run into few "good" spin fishermen. When fish are taking
streamers, and where because of distance or topography a fly fisher
cannot reach the productive water, then the spin fisher always has the
advantage. But Id guess that on more than half the waters I fish a
spinning rod would be useless due to size of the stream, wariness of
the fish, impossibility of casting an appropriate fish food.

I think another factor less said is that fly fishing is more athletic,
both in the casting and the wading more often required. Spinning has
made fishing a hell of a lot more accessible to more people. It just
requires less physical skill. And it is effective enough and provides
enough release for nervous energy in a semi-attentive state. Finally
these folks buy licences and thereby spread the costs of management.
They do tend to leave crap all over the river, but all in all we could
be more tolerant of them because each one is a potential convert.
Why some of my best friends are . . . . Well actually not.
Dave

Dave

Nobody told him
 

"notbob" wrote in message
...
I saw something today that left me dumbfounded.

I was watching a spin fisherman from my window and initially pooh-poohed
him, having watched many unseccesful spin fishermen at that point on the
river I view from my front window. He'd been there for a couple hrs and I
decided to get my binoculars to see if I could see any fish in the water
on
a stringer. Before I could retrieve my binocs, I noticed him put
something
dark and long in his old style canvas fishing bag and prepare to leave. I
decided to meet him when he crossed the bridge to see how he did.

To my astonishment, as we closed near his truck, I noticed what I thought
had been a rather large spoon spinning lure ...and the basis of my
skepticism as to his certain non-success... was actually a clear oblong
bobber. What the...? We greeted and I asked how he did. He didn't say
anything at first, seemingly waiting to make truck-fall. When he put his
pole and bag down, I asked if he caught anything and he gave me a glance
that obviously meant, "jes wait and I'll show you".

He opened his well-worn bag and pulled out a steel-brass stringer that
looked like it could hold 10lb salmon or bonito and flopped two nice
browns
on his open tail-gate, one about 12", the other about 14". "Nice", I
said.

But, I was more intrigued by his tackle. He seemed to think it nothing
and
casually revealed his rig. It was a clear bobber on the spin line and
from
the bobber, a like-sized 4' tippet going to a single fly. ???? I asked
what
it was and he told me it was a double renegade fly, about 10-12. Not a
weighted rooster-tail with hackles, just a plain ol fly with the bobber
providing needed weight and flotation. Whoa!

This flew in the face of everything I'd worked so hard to learn about fly
fishing and presentation and.... Well, let's just say I was stunned. I'd
watched his technique from my window. It was pure spin fishing. Cast to
the far side of the river (about 25-30yds) and retrieve accross the
current
at a moderate spin lure pace. That means the fly was being dragged across
the water like a freakin motorboat, wake and all. No natural floating
presentation with required mends and twictches and such. Just drag that
sucker across the water, by god! What trout in its right mind would go
for
that?

He went on to relate how he'd always used this technique and had actually
caught about 6 fish total, that day, keeping only the two larger. What
could I say? "You can't do it that way!"? I came home and tossed my
Cabela
FF catalog in the trash. :\

nb

I use a highly bouyant wake fly (on a fly line) the disturbance of a prey
item attempting a speedy escape triggers the attack instinct similar to fish
chasing newly emerged mayfly or waterlogged craneflys ( we call them daddy
longlegs in the UK which btw is not the same as the US daddy ).
Derek W

Nobody told him
 

Scott Seidman wrote:
notbob wrote in
:


I was watching a spin fisherman from my window and initially pooh-poohed
him,


I think a good spin fisherman will outfish a good fly fisherman most of the
time, and certainly have a better chance under a wider variety of
conditions.



It all depends on what you mean by "most of the time" and "wider variety
of conditions."

On the waters I fish I think fly fishing (especially if you include bait
:-) will outfish spin fishing. The main exception would be high lakes.

OTOH, I tend to fish where fly fishing is rewarded.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Nobody told him
 

Derek wrote:

I use a highly bouyant wake fly (on a fly line) the disturbance of a prey
item attempting a speedy escape triggers the attack instinct similar to fish
chasing newly emerged mayfly or waterlogged craneflys ( we call them daddy
longlegs in the UK which btw is not the same as the US daddy ).
Derek W

The most dramatic and exciting fishing I've had with a buoyant "wake"
fly was catching big rainbows on mice on the Kisaralik in Alaska (this
summer). Standing on the bank and casting across the current, I'd make a
big upstream mend and twitch the mouse toward shore. Invariably, when
the fish hit, it would be right at the bank. On one occasion I could see
the fish follow the fly for yards. It was like they knew that they had
the mouse, but were waiting, almost sadistically, to strike at the last
moment.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Nobody told him
 

On Oct 19, 12:17*pm, Scott Seidman
wrote:
notbob wrote :

I was watching a spin fisherman from my window and initially pooh-poohed
him,

I think a good spin fisherman will outfish a good fly fisherman most of the
time, and certainly have a better chance under a wider variety of
conditions.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

.... and in many conditions, a float fisherman will outdo everyone
else...

On Topic: Spin fishing works? Nobody told him; Caddis
 

On Oct 19, 4:46*pm, "
wrote:
On Oct 19, 12:17*pm, Scott Seidman
wrote:

notbob wrote :

I was watching a spin fisherman from my window and initially pooh-poohed
him,

I think a good spin fisherman will outfish a good fly fisherman most of the
time, and certainly have a better chance under a wider variety of
conditions.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

... and in many conditions, a float fisherman will outdo everyone
else...

Sorting
Dave

ON TOPIC: Spin fishing better? "Nobody told him"
 

On Oct 19, 4:46*pm, "
wrote:
SNIP
SORT
Benito