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Reels
Anybody else here built any reels? Specifically, I would like some info
about machining titanium alloy. Will "standard" ceramic cutters be OK? Cutting speeds? I have been given some titanium alloy pieces, and I donīt want to waste any of it. Also, I would be most interested if anybody has any info on making carbon fibre reels. TL MC |
Reels
This is a good site to ask questions on materials.
http://www.eng-tips.com/threadhome.cfm?tp=1 go to the forum on Metal and Metallurgy engineering. The titanium shops I have dealt with use lathes, milling machines, saws etc with very high coolant flows (water based I think). The waste material is dangerous as it can burn. The finer the material the more dangerous it is. The shops store it outside away from there building and clean it up every night. I have some titanium wire and plans for a reel with "woven" side plates. I am going to have the center hubs machined from aluminum or stainless. The wire has a memory and theorically will return to its original shape after hitting a rock. "Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Anybody else here built any reels? Specifically, I would like some info about machining titanium alloy. Will "standard" ceramic cutters be OK? Cutting speeds? I have been given some titanium alloy pieces, and I donīt want to waste any of it. Also, I would be most interested if anybody has any info on making carbon fibre reels. TL MC |
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"B J Conner" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... This is a good site to ask questions on materials. http://www.eng-tips.com/threadhome.cfm?tp=1 Thanks. I have bookmarked it. I have more or less given up with stainless, as no matter what one does, it is still too heavy. A carbon/stainless construction seems a much better way to go, although if I could solve some of the construction problems ( on a "hobby" basis), I would prefer all-carbon construction. The titanium alloy seems promising, but I have heard very conflicting information about machining it. Hence my questions. Unfortunately, I have no exact details of the alloy either. I would prefer not to waste either material or tools, if I can help it. TL MC |
Reels
"Mike Connor" wrote:
I've used 1 graphite reel, the Loop reel. It's OK for holding the line, but not too good if you have to fight the fish from the reel. It seems to flex too much and the distortion messes up the smoothness. It's probably perfect for panfish. Regardles, it sounds like a fun project. Chas remove fly fish to reply http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/w...ome.html-.html San Juan Pictures at: http://home.comcast.net/~chasepike/wsb/index.html |
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I heard that titanium was very dangerous to work with because the cuttings
come off in very long continuous sharp curls. -- Bill Kiene Kiene's Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com "Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Anybody else here built any reels? Specifically, I would like some info about machining titanium alloy. Will "standard" ceramic cutters be OK? Cutting speeds? I have been given some titanium alloy pieces, and I donīt want to waste any of it. Also, I would be most interested if anybody has any info on making carbon fibre reels. TL MC |
Reels
"Bill Kiene" schrieb im Newsbeitrag . .. I heard that titanium was very dangerous to work with because the cuttings come off in very long continuous sharp curls. -- Bill Kiene Kiene's Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com A lot of these materials are dangerous in this, and in various other respects. One is obliged to take the necessary precautions. TL MC |
Reels
Mike, I have a big Loop, and a couple of big Okuma "carbon" reels that I use
for sal****er flyfishing. All of them have had marlin on the other end and come through with flying colours, lost all the fish though, my fault not the reels. But quite a few tuna and yellowtail king fish up to 80lb have sucuumbed to these reels. Am not sure of my facts, but I thought carbon fibre was more 'rigid' than most metals - any problems I have had with carbon reels is usually based around the ****ty quality of the metal parts, gears, drags etc. not the carbon itself. Tony Bishop "Mike Connor" wrote in message ... "Bill Kiene" schrieb im Newsbeitrag . .. I heard that titanium was very dangerous to work with because the cuttings come off in very long continuous sharp curls. -- Bill Kiene Kiene's Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com A lot of these materials are dangerous in this, and in various other respects. One is obliged to take the necessary precautions. TL MC |
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"BishFish" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... Mike, I have a big Loop, and a couple of big Okuma "carbon" reels that I use for sal****er flyfishing. All of them have had marlin on the other end and come through with flying colours, lost all the fish though, my fault not the reels. But quite a few tuna and yellowtail king fish up to 80lb have sucuumbed to these reels. Am not sure of my facts, but I thought carbon fibre was more 'rigid' than most metals - any problems I have had with carbon reels is usually based around the ****ty quality of the metal parts, gears, drags etc. not the carbon itself. Tony Bishop I have a few carbon fiber composite reels as well, and none has ever let me down, although I have never had a really big fish on any of them. Indeed, compared to what you write, I have only ever caught "tiddlers"! Carbon fibre has a much higher elastic modulus ( basically resistance to bending)than any metal, but it is only used for construction in conjunction with various epoxy resins, which form a composite. It is quite useless by itself. Cheap carbon reels may suffer from excess flexibility due to insufficient wall, or cross section thickness. I have seen a couple where the compression induced by nylon backing, or even just winding line on tight while playing a fish, has expanded the spool side-plates to the extent that the spool jammed. The material is not normally permanently deformed, and returns to its original shape when the pressure is removed, but such reels are more or less useless, as they will jam every time under such circumstances. I have tried "moulding" carbon fibre pre-preg, ( pre-preg is resin-impregnated carbon fibre cloth), and then baking it ( in just the same way as a rod blank is made), but I have had enormous difficulty getting accurate "castings" and in maintaining tolerances, and machining the stuff does not work very well, although it can be done to a limited extent. The stuff is very expensive, and my supply is extremely limited, although I have been lucky to obtain various "cut-offs" and the like. Some of the special resins used are also beyond my reach. I was hoping somebody else might have some ideas here. Normally, I only make "one offs", for myself, and the amount of work involved in order to produce a single object is often exorbitant, when compared to the value or utility of the finished product. I donīt mind that so much, as long as I get something I really want, or is in some way to my advantage. In my small machine shop, I can make a great number of things, including gears, various small metal parts etc etc. to a very high standard, but it is seldom worth the time and trouble involved. My main reason for wanting to try the titanium alloy, is that I have a design for a sal****er reel, quite similar to the Vivarelli, but with a few ideas of my own added, and I have been unable to realise the design using other metals, or indeed carbon-fibre, either due to the intrinsic weight involved, or because of my limited facilities and capabilities. There are no titanium reels on the market to my knowledge, and I have often heard that this is due to the price, which is a direct result of the machining difficulties, and thus the time involved. Time is of no object to me here, I have no deadlines to beat, ( except the final one!) and I would like such a reel! Over the years, I have invested massive amounts of time in various projects, quite apart from the money involved, in some cases learning whole new techniques in order to be able to do something myself, and not be reliant on others. However, I do not wish to have to re-invent the wheel all the time, and so in this particular case, I thought I might ask if anybody had any relevant information on the subject. The site that BJ posted looks as though it might be helpful for one or two things, but it is not exactly what I was looking for. The thread will undoubtedly morph into all sorts of things. But my main intentions here are as stated above. TL MC |
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"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag link.net... http://www.supraalloys.com/Machining_titanium.htm -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. First class! Thanks! Unfortunately, the alloy I have is an airframe grade alloy, and I do not know its specific properties, but this site will be of great help nevertheless. Perhaps I can find out the properties of the stuff somewhere. At least it looks, ( after a cursory glance) as if my WC and Ceramic tools will suffice. TL MC |
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"Greg Pavlov" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP I don't know exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but maybe you can reduce the overall effort by using a ready- made spool for one of the commercial reels. I am not sure what you mean. Assuming you mistyped something or other; There are no commercial spools available in titanium, most are magnesium alloy. The carbon fibre spools are not modifiable to my liking. The commercial cages available are expensive, and also not easily modifiable. My ideas for the cage etc, would preclude the use of such a spool or cage, even if they were available. I could simply buy some expensive reel or other, and it would doubtless be adequate for the job, but that is not what I want to do. I want to try out some ideas, and still have a usable reel at the end. TL MC |
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Mike Connor wrote:
I could simply buy some expensive reel or other, and it would doubtless be adequate for the job, but that is not what I want to do. I want to try out some ideas, and still have a usable reel at the end. On paper, titanium should be the ideal material for a fly reel. For the same stength as steel, a titanium reel would be much lighter (and corrosion resistant). It's an amazing metal. If you have the means to fabricate such a reel, it could be a fascinating exercise. Just don't use it on a bamboo rod. :-) -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
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Mike Connor wrote:
"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag link.net... http://www.supraalloys.com/Machining_titanium.htm -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. First class! Thanks! Unfortunately, the alloy I have is an airframe grade alloy, and I do not know its specific properties, but this site will be of great help nevertheless. Perhaps I can find out the properties of the stuff somewhere. If its airframe grade, its probably a 6Al/4V (aluminum/vanadium) mix, which I would think would be better than the "normal" 3/2.5 mix. BTW, I don't really know what I'm talking about... my knowledge of titanium comes from the bicycle industry. - Dave |
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"Dave" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP. If its airframe grade, its probably a 6Al/4V (aluminum/vanadium) mix, which I would think would be better than the "normal" 3/2.5 mix. BTW, I don't really know what I'm talking about... my knowledge of titanium comes from the bicycle industry. - Dave It is airframe grade. But there are various specs here, and I am not sure about the stuff I have. In actual fact, the pieces I have are waste bits from Airbus fuselage construction etc. It is extremely tough, I already ruined one WC ( Tungsten carbide), and two ceramic sineter cutters on it. Need tools with a different cutting angle etc. I will get back to it after Christmas. Too busy with other things right now. Thanks for the input though, any and all info is welcome. TL MC |
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"Mike Connor" wrote in message ... "Dave" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP. If its airframe grade, its probably a 6Al/4V (aluminum/vanadium) mix, which I would think would be better than the "normal" 3/2.5 mix. BTW, I don't really know what I'm talking about... my knowledge of titanium comes from the bicycle industry. - Dave It is airframe grade. But there are various specs here, and I am not sure about the stuff I have. In actual fact, the pieces I have are waste bits from Airbus fuselage construction etc. It is extremely tough, I already ruined one WC ( Tungsten carbide), and two ceramic sineter cutters on it. Need tools with a different cutting angle etc. I will get back to it after Christmas. Too busy with other things right now. Thanks for the input though, any and all info is welcome. "Machinery's Handbook" used to be an excellent source of information on machining as well as virtually all other matters mechanical. It's been twenty years since I used it, and I had no reason to be interested in titanium at the time, so I have no idea if it will be of any help.....but it's probably worth a look. Last time I glanced at a copy though, it was selling for about $80. At any rate, you can find it at: http://www.industrialpress.com/default.asp Scanning the Industrial Press catalog, it looks like they have some other titles that may be of interest. Good luck. Wolfgang |
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Mike Connor wrote:
"Dave" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP. If its airframe grade, its probably a 6Al/4V (aluminum/vanadium) mix, which I would think would be better than the "normal" 3/2.5 mix. BTW, I don't really know what I'm talking about... my knowledge of titanium comes from the bicycle industry. - Dave It is airframe grade. But there are various specs here, and I am not sure about the stuff I have. In actual fact, the pieces I have are waste bits from Airbus fuselage construction etc. It is extremely tough, I already ruined one WC ( Tungsten carbide), and two ceramic sineter cutters on it. Need tools with a different cutting angle etc. I will get back to it after Christmas. Too busy with other things right now. Thanks for the input though, any and all info is welcome. TL MC If you scroll down to Electron Beam Welding (EBW) there is a bit about titanium used in the aircraft industry there and it mentions the Airbus. http://lyre.mit.edu/~pat/Publication.../2000spain.pdf -- Don`t Worry, Be Happy Sandy -- E-Mail:- Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667 #Rabble Channel Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/rabbled ICQ : 41266150 |
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"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP http://www.industrialpress.com/default.asp Scanning the Industrial Press catalog, it looks like they have some other titles that may be of interest. Good luck. Wolfgang Thanks, I will have a look. I do have quite a bit of stuff on machining etc. I earned my living at it for quite a long time. Unfortunately, there is very little about titanium in there, and what there is, is too general for my specific purposes. Although I have nothing in principle against extending my small library, I donīt want to spend a fortune on books, just to be able to build a couple of one-off projects. I was hoping to find something specific on the net. I can still resort to trial and error, coupled with a little knowledge, but past experience suggests that this is not usually the best way to go. TL MC |
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"Sandy" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... If you scroll down to Electron Beam Welding (EBW) there is a bit about titanium used in the aircraft industry there and it mentions the Airbus. http://lyre.mit.edu/~pat/Publication.../2000spain.pdf Actually, I worked on the airbus for quite a while, and I worked quite a bit with titanium. Unfortunately not machining it in the fashion I envisage necessary for building fishing reels! Thanks for the info though. TL MC |
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Mike Connor wrote:
"Sandy" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... If you scroll down to Electron Beam Welding (EBW) there is a bit about titanium used in the aircraft industry there and it mentions the Airbus. http://lyre.mit.edu/~pat/Publication.../2000spain.pdf Actually, I worked on the airbus for quite a while, and I worked quite a bit with titanium. Unfortunately not machining it in the fashion I envisage necessary for building fishing reels! Thanks for the info though. TL MC I haven't done any machining for a long time and even at that it was only as when needed and the engineers were too busy. I found these sites if you haven't already got them. http://www.supraalloys.com/Machining_titanium.htm http://www.titanium.com/tech_manual/tech2.cfm http://astro.umsystem.edu/atm/ARCHIV.../msg00881.html http://www.rti-intl.com/tag/machine.htm -- Don`t Worry, Be Happy Sandy -- E-Mail:- Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667 #Rabble Channel Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/rabbled ICQ : 41266150 |
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"Sandy" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP I haven't done any machining for a long time and even at that it was only as when needed and the engineers were too busy. I found these sites if you haven't already got them. http://www.supraalloys.com/Machining_titanium.htm http://www.titanium.com/tech_manual/tech2.cfm http://astro.umsystem.edu/atm/ARCHIV.../msg00881.html http://www.rti-intl.com/tag/machine.htm Thanks! All grist for the mill! TL MC |
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On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Mike Connor wrote:
My main reason for wanting to try the titanium alloy, The only titanium fishing tools I know of at the pliers made by Donnmar and VanStaal http://tackledirect.com/donac.html http://tackledirect.com/vanstaalac.html I covet these things but would worry about dropping a $200+ pair of pliers overboard. Mu |
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Sandy wrote:
I found these sites if you haven't already got them. http://www.supraalloys.com/Machining_titanium.htm http://www.titanium.com/tech_manual/tech2.cfm http://astro.umsystem.edu/atm/ARCHIV.../msg00881.html http://www.rti-intl.com/tag/machine.htm Add one to the list: http://www.titaniumjoe.com/ Doesn't mention anything about machining, but I figure that this Joe character might know something about it. - Dave |
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"Mu Young Lee" wrote in message . itd.umich.edu... On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Mike Connor wrote: My main reason for wanting to try the titanium alloy, The only titanium fishing tools I know of at the pliers made by Donnmar and VanStaal [snip] I covet these things but would worry about dropping a $200+ pair of pliers overboard. If you think titanium pliers are overboard, you ought to see what titanium reels go for. http://www.just-reels.com/MLHDesign.htm |
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, Wayne Knight wrote:
http://www.just-reels.com/MLHDesign.htm I think I'm in love! Mu |
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"Mu Young Lee" schrieb im Newsbeitrag c.itd.umich.edu... On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, Wayne Knight wrote: http://www.just-reels.com/MLHDesign.htm I think I'm in love! Mu Very nice I agree. I will have to revise my original post, I was not aware of these reels. The price is too high for me unfortunately. In any case, I donīt particularly want a titanium reel per se, I want one built to my own specifications. TL MC |
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"Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Very nice I agree. I will have to revise my original post, I was not aware of these reels. The price is too high for me unfortunately. In any case, I donīt particularly want a titanium reel per se, I want one built to my own specifications. your orignial post got me thinking about them, I remeber reading some paragraph about these reels a few years ago and remember the price being around 2000 US. But there you go, a path to riches, Machine your own, keep the cost down and sell them for a grand. Personally, I might would spend 2K on a reel, but only for one of Stan Bogdan's little jewels, and even then I would have had to have hit the lottery jackpot big time. Wayne |
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