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Since were on civics and such.
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Since were on civics and such.
wrote in message ... One of the better things I had sent to me this week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rQzUVQjd8 Nice sentiments, but a bit too simplistic and ethnocentric, IMMHO. He posits that the only reason he is free is the sacrifice soldiers past and present. He does not cover the democratic principles and institutions that drive our great nation and protect us as Americans. Nor does he note that the sacrifice of soldiers might be avoided, if only our so-called leaders were wiser geo-political decisionmakers and less capitalistically oriented. Baxter Black is a wonderful poet. However, I don't know that I would accept all of his socio-economic or political viewpoints. To assume that someone--anyone--*has* to die to ensure my way of life is a proposition for which I do not adhere, and reeks of jingoism, YMMV. Op |
Since were on civics and such.
On Dec 23, 10:22*am, "Mark H. Bowen" wrote:
Nice sentiments, but a bit too simplistic and ethnocentric, IMMHO. He posits that the only reason he is free is the sacrifice soldiers past and present. |
Since were on civics and such.
"rb608" wrote in message ... On Dec 23, 10:22 am, "Mark H. Bowen" wrote: Nice sentiments, but a bit too simplistic and ethnocentric, IMMHO. He posits that the only reason he is free is the sacrifice soldiers past and present. He does not cover the democratic principles and institutions that drive our great nation and protect us as Americans. Can't do YouTube here at work; but I'll comment on your comment. The sacrifice of our military in times of war and peace alike is undeniable; but when we celebrate those contributions to our freedom as its only protection, it does a great disservice to everyone else who puts their lives, families, or careers on the line for this nation's freedom. Journalists and whistleblowers who dare attack the status quo or expose corruption; attornies who protect the rights and freedoms of we the people against unjust laws or government actions; ordinary people who organize, march, and protest to ensure that our freedoms aren't conquered by our very own government or its institutions. These people protect and defend our freedoms every bit as much as the soldier, often in similar peril to their lives. It can and probably will be argued that the sacrifice of the soldiers makes possible the freedom of the activist or the lawyer; but I disagree that either takes precedence. If social, political, and judical activists cannot guarantee our freedoms through Constitutional means, the role of the military in preserving our geographic borders is meaningless to the freedom of the people within. I used to like Baxter Black's NPR commentaries, and his "down home" wisdom isn't without it's charm and validity; but if I'm looking for a lecture on what makes this country great, his opinion means less to me than, say, a community organizer or public defender. Joe F. Agreed. Op |
Since were on civics and such.
|
Since were on civics and such.
In article
, wrote: One of the better things I had sent to me this week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rQzUVQjd8 Chills the soul, the way those propaganda films from Germany in the 30s do. Those films, on the other hand, were often very beautiful, and Germany had the advantage then of being arguably the most civilized country on earth. The best music, much of the best writing, much of the best philosophy. One of the reasons I live in Europe is that I've never seen a Frenchman, Italian, Irishman or Spaniard praise his/her flag, or argue that his/her country was the best on earth (even though they probably are). This video displays floridly the overweening, priggish, ignorant complacency that inspired those evil *******s to do what they did on 9/11. What they did was utterly wrong, but this video explains why it was reasonable to want to do it. L |
Since were on civics and such.
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:07:55 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote: this video explains why it was reasonable to want to do it. And what of your Jolly Old England? Seems you have had more terrorist attack than we. They must really "love" you. |
Since were on civics and such.
On Dec 24, 4:07 pm, Lazarus Cooke
wrote: What they did was utterly wrong, but this video explains why it was reasonable to want to do it. We ain't perfect, but it was _not_ reasonable to want to do it. Jon. PS: I suspect most followups are going to be harsher, so done your asbestos... |
Since were on civics and such.
In article
, wrote: We ain't perfect, but it was _not_ reasonable to want to do it. Wake up. It was perfectly reasonable to want to do it. It was wicked and unforgivable to do it. Jon. PS: I suspect most followups are going to be harsher, so done your asbestos... I know. Just like criticizing the German government in the 30s, or the Israeli one now. L |
Since were on civics and such.
Dave La course wrote
And what of your Jolly Old England? Seems you have had more terrorist attack than we. They must really "love" you. I'm not English, nor never have been so they're not mine, and I didn't refer to them in my post. But yes, the English have been attacked a bit, inevitably. Given what they've done in Iraq it's not surprising. But, just as 9/11 didn't create even a ripple on the graph of violent deaths in America, fundamentalist islamic terrorism has killed few Brits. Unlike America, though, the deaths have done little to alter the way of life in Britain. And the Brits are used to it - they had to put up with the (US funded) IRA for thirty years, so there haven't been trash-cans for terrorists to put bombs in in the subway for yonks, if not longer. The US is weird, in that it's never been attacked from outside for the last hundred years, so the population flap around like headless chickens at the tiniest suggestion of a hint of a threat. I know of no country whose population would react/ has reacted in such a cravenly panic-stricken way as the US; but I realize that this is partly due to its unique geographic and political isolation. (Which, oddly enough, is also the reason why its people, in many ways as sweet as they come, frequently behave so viciously when they come in contact with foreigners, whom they see, as explained in the video which began all this, as being other-wordly beings who suffer from the terrible fate of being non-American.) L |
Since were on civics and such.
On Dec 24, 4:39 pm, Lazarus Cooke
wrote: It was perfectly reasonable to want to do it. It was reasonable to strongly dislike some of the things our country had done. It was not reasonable to "want" to fly packed civilian jetliners into civilian-filled skyscrapers. In no sane world is that reasonable to want to do. If it's wrong to do, it's wrong to want to do. Jon. |
Since were on civics and such.
In article
, wrote: On Dec 24, 4:39 pm, Lazarus Cooke wrote: It was perfectly reasonable to want to do it. It was reasonable to strongly dislike some of the things our country had done. It was not reasonable to "want" to fly packed civilian jetliners into civilian-filled skyscrapers. In no sane world is that reasonable to want to do. If it's wrong to do, it's wrong to want to do. No no no no no See 'Bad Men do what good men dream' by Robert Simon http://tinyurl.com/8kgsj5 (whom I interviewed many years ago). It's not thinking of doing bad things, or wanting to do them that's bad. It's doing them. (Jesus, if I remember rightly, was inconsistent on this crucial issue, but if he's still around, I'm sure he'll side with me now he's had more time to think about it). L Hey! it's just gone his birthday here in Europe. Happy Christmas all Roffians!! (Especially the crotchety argumentative ones) L |
Since were on civics and such.
Lazarus Cooke wrote:
wrote: One of the better things I had sent to me this week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rQzUVQjd8 Chills the soul, the way those propaganda films from Germany in the 30s do. snip The Baxter Black soliloquy is a fairly eloquent piece of jingoistic garbage. Americans just eat that **** up. Prepare your asbestos underwear, you're about to take some heat. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Since were on civics and such.
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:07:55 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote: In article , wrote: One of the better things I had sent to me this week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rQzUVQjd8 Chills the soul, the way those propaganda films from Germany in the 30s do. Those films, on the other hand, were often very beautiful, and Germany had the advantage then of being arguably the most civilized country on earth. The best music, much of the best writing, much of the best philosophy. Not to mention the best, most civilised "shower" and crematorium contractors... One of the reasons I live in Europe is that I've never seen a Frenchman, Italian, Irishman or Spaniard praise his/her flag, or argue that his/her country was the best on earth (even though they probably are). Man, that's weird, and a shame...to live in Europe, and to have never seen a European... This video displays floridly the overweening, priggish, ignorant complacency that inspired those evil *******s to do what they did on 9/11. What they did was utterly wrong, but this video explains why it was reasonable to want to do it. Uh, yeah...good luck with that... Sheesh, R L |
Since were on civics and such.
In article ,
wrote: On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:07:55 +0000, Lazarus Cooke wrote: In article , wrote: One of the better things I had sent to me this week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rQzUVQjd8 Chills the soul, the way those propaganda films from Germany in the 30s do. Those films, on the other hand, were often very beautiful, and Germany had the advantage then of being arguably the most civilized country on earth. The best music, much of the best writing, much of the best philosophy. Not to mention the best, most civilised "shower" and crematorium contractors... Glad that even you can appreciate my point. L |
Since were on civics and such.
Lazarus Cooke wrote:
In article , wrote: One of the better things I had sent to me this week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rQzUVQjd8 Chills the soul, the way those propaganda films from Germany in the 30s do. Well, gosh. It just seems like some mawkish but anodyne patriotism to me. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Since were on civics and such.
On Dec 24, 4:52*pm, Lazarus Cooke
wrote: Baxter Black is actually an ex animal Vet who re-invented himself as a "Cowboy Poet" about the same time he lost his taste for cow **** and found out he inherited a large hat. You need to ignore his kind of **** and understand that we are a very large country with all kinds of folk. Trust me, very few American combat vets put out or put up with the kind of flag waving that armchair phonies like Black trade in. We are going thru a bad patch right now. That's not our soldier's fault. Our soldiers do what our country asks them to do. The pay is bad and the work is not very pretty. Things will change and we will fix our mess. But do not expect us to get all gushy and contrite. Dave And besides your own country (countries) has made a few mistakes as I recall. |
Since were on civics and such.
In article
, DaveS wrote: Our soldiers do what our country asks them to do. The pay is bad and the work is not very pretty. I totally agree. Dave And besides your own country (countries) has made a few mistakes as I recall. I totally agree with this, too. L |
Since were on civics and such.
"Lazarus Cooke" wrote in message news:251220080000180691%kishloganbarblesshook@hotm ail.com... (Which, oddly enough, is also the reason why its people, in many ways as sweet as they come, frequently behave so viciously when they come in contact with foreigners, whom they see, as explained in the video which began all this, as being other-wordly beings who suffer from the terrible fate of being non-American.) L Bingo! We have a winner! You oughta try livin' with it :~^ ( Op ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
Since were on civics and such.
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:11:39 -0500, "Mark H. Bowen"
wrote: "Lazarus Cooke" wrote in message news:251220080000180691%kishloganbarblesshook@hot mail.com... (Which, oddly enough, is also the reason why its people, in many ways as sweet as they come, frequently behave so viciously when they come in contact with foreigners, whom they see, as explained in the video which began all this, as being other-wordly beings who suffer from the terrible fate of being non-American.) Yet in the US, unlike most (but not all) countries/entities in supposedly unnationalistic Europe and the rest of the world, desecrating the most visible of all national symbols, its flag, is protected free speech... L Bingo! We have a winner! Naw, just a couple of losers... You oughta try livin' with it :~^ ( Hey, Lufthansa's ready when you are...I'd have said "USAir," but they're never ready when anyone is...ever... Op HTH, R |
Since were on civics and such.
On Dec 24, 5:16 pm, Lazarus Cooke
wrote: See 'Bad Men do what good men dream' by Robert Simon http://tinyurl.com/8kgsj5 ( the tinyurl thread a while ago, I don't click on what I can't see, so all I'm going by is the title) As far as the title goes, sure, I agree completely. We all have unreasonable, wrong, evil thoughts, and it's good that we do not act on (most of) them. That's the human condition, the whole reason for Christmas. I didn't say that such desires are not understandable, just that they are not reasonable. But anyways, I'll second this: Happy Christmas all Roffians!! Merry Christmas, all. Jon. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1807-1882) Christmas Bells I HEARD the bells on Christmas Day Their old, familiar carols play, And wild and sweet The words repeat Of peace on earth, good-will to men! And thought how, as the day had come, The belfries of all Christendom Had rolled along The unbroken song Of peace on earth, good-will to men! Till ringing, singing on its way, The world revolved from night to day, A voice, a chime, A chant sublime Of peace on earth, good-will to men! Then from each black, accursed mouth The cannon thundered in the South, And with the sound The carols drowned Of peace on earth, good-will to men! It was as if an earthquake rent The hearth-stones of a continent, And made forlorn The households born Of peace on earth, good-will to men! And in despair I bowed my head; "There is no peace on earth," I said; "For hate is strong, And mocks the song Of peace on earth, good-will to men!" Then pealed the bells more loud and deep: "God is not dead, nor doth He sleep; The Wrong shall fail, The Right prevail, With peace on earth, good-will to men." |
Since were on civics and such.
Lazarus Cooke wrote:
In article , wrote: One of the better things I had sent to me this week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rQzUVQjd8 Chills the soul, the way those propaganda films from Germany in the 30s do. Those films, on the other hand, were often very beautiful, and Germany had the advantage then of being arguably the most civilized country on earth. The best music, much of the best writing, much of the best philosophy. One of the reasons I live in Europe is that I've never seen a Frenchman, Italian, Irishman or Spaniard praise his/her flag, or argue that his/her country was the best on earth (even though they probably are). This video displays floridly the overweening, priggish, ignorant complacency that inspired those evil *******s to do what they did on 9/11. What they did was utterly wrong, but this video explains why it was reasonable to want to do it. L you are not alone in your distaste for cinematic "mantras" and ditto-speak, even in the guise and guile of a so-called u.s. cowboy poet. still, though i do not have your experience with other nations, i don't think such displays are unique to my country, nor is the ethnocentric pride some folks feel compelled to express. one needs only watch the olympics to be reminded of that fact. my experience indicates folks in general have an attachment to their home...even those living in an inhospitable desert or a frozen tundra. however, for all its faults...and you might be surprised by the number of us complacent, ignorant american prigs who know there are more than a few...this is a remarkably decent country with a bounty of intelligent, caring, hard-working people. our recent election offers some proof...and, i think the next four years will show more of those qualities. i think we often overlook the huge mountains of human value abundant in america because we are consumed with focusing on the trash in the ditch. this past year, i've attended too many funerals of people i've known in my community. at each sad occasion, i discovered i really knew little about them. they each had amazing life stories they did not flaunt or brag about or even make known to others outside their family. at their funerals, their children and grandchildren talked about those stories. i was bewildered by the fact that i had never seen that part of these folks...but i know it was my own failure, not theirs. jeff (who prefers lewis black's "poetry" over baxter's) |
Since were on civics and such.
Jeff wrote - i think we often overlook the huge mountains of human
value abundant in america because we are consumed with focusing on the trash in the ditch. Joe the elder suggests-trash is bright and flashy-we don"t have to slow down and think -it is thrown in our face every day ! |
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