ff in Cuba
 

What are the chances that the Obama administration and the Democratic
Party majority in Congress will relax the odious, long-standing travel
restrictions to Cuba? I think Obama could do it with the stroke of a pen.

I don't like my government telling me where I can and can't travel,
especially when the destination has superb winter sal****er fly fishing
(or so I hear).

No other posts on ROFF this Dec. 28. Does this mean that Usenet is dead?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 28, 9:11*pm, rw wrote:
No other posts on ROFF this Dec. 28. Does this mean that Usenet is dead?

No, it means it's a holiday; and everybody but you and I have better
things to do than post to ROFF..

Joe F.

ff in Cuba
 

rb608 wrote:
On Dec 28, 9:11 pm, rw wrote:

No other posts on ROFF this Dec. 28. Does this mean that Usenet is dead?


No, it means it's a holiday; and everybody but you and I have better
things to do than post to ROFF..

Joe F.

True enough. My wife and my older daughter are in Minneapolis, visiting
family. My younger daughter is in NYC at a reunion. I'm alone in here
California with the dogs and cats and birds.

Still, I get the distinct feeling that Usenet traffic in general, and
ROFF in particular, is falling off. Didn't anyone even get any ff tackle
or books for Christmas?

And where do you stand on travel restrictions to Cuba?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

ff in Cuba
 

rw wrote:

Still, I get the distinct feeling that Usenet traffic in general, and
ROFF in particular, is falling off.

I found this gem in Wikipedia:

"Over time, the amount of Usenet traffic has steadily increased. It is
important to note, however, that much of this traffic increase reflects
not an increase in discrete users or newsgroup discussions, but instead
the combination of massive automated spamming and an increase in the use
of .binaries newsgroups in which large files (frequently pornography or
pirated media) are often posted publicly."

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

ff in Cuba
 

rw wrote:

And where do you stand on travel restrictions to Cuba?


Well......not everyone has them. I've never been , but many of my
freinds have. They enjoyed it a lot.

Tim Lysyk

ff in Cuba
 

Tim Lysyk wrote:
rw wrote:


And where do you stand on travel restrictions to Cuba?


Well......not everyone has them. I've never been , but many of my
freinds have. They enjoyed it a lot.

Tim Lysyk

You suck. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 28, 6:37*pm, rw wrote:
rb608 wrote:
On Dec 28, 9:11 pm, rw wrote:

No other posts on ROFF this Dec. 28. Does this mean that Usenet is dead?

No, it means it's a holiday; and everybody but you and I have better
things to do than post to ROFF..

Joe F.

True enough. My wife and my older daughter are in Minneapolis, visiting
family. My younger daughter is in NYC at a reunion. I'm alone in here
California with the dogs and cats and birds.

Still, I get the distinct feeling that Usenet traffic in general, and
ROFF in particular, is falling off. Didn't anyone even get any ff tackle
or books for Christmas?

And where do you stand on travel restrictions to Cuba?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Per Cuba. . . Maybe. I understand that polling of Cuban Americans even
is showing a slight majority for relaxed relations. The big problem is
property. The US to this point has supported exiles' claims. In ex-
communist Europe this tact has put all kinds of public property in the
hands of all manner of schemers, including many Americans playing the
dual citizenship games and such. US to this point has thumbed its nose
at suits brought by Cuba for compensation of damages and deaths
resulting from the US based terror bombing campaign that was waged for
years. I understand that some of the hotel bombings and public
transport bombings we paid for in Cuba killed a number of people. For
a while we even refused to extradite one guy who blew up a Cuban
civilian airliner, killing all on board. My guess we will eventually
tire of this crap but I wouldn't put money on an early solution.

Note: the Batista clique in Miami bought Clinton on this issue for
less that 200k as I recall. They got it for free from the
Republicrats.

I find it much more disturbing how the Israelis are setting up the
playing field for extorting more money from the US and keeping Obama
in line, with this bull**** they have staged in Gaza. It is disgusting
how almost all the mainstream US media is just re-reading the Israeli
press releases. The rest of the world is furious over the air strikes
the IDF has conducted, shooting serious munitions right into Gaza
City. Almost 300 civilian deaths so far and the attacks will probably
continue tomorrow. Must take very brave airmen to blast the **** out
of an undefended city with a starving population. God forgive us for
our culpability in this war crime.

Dave
Ideology Kills

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 28, 11:30*pm, DaveS wrote:

Here is an editorial from the Israeli largest newspaper, Haaretz,
against the bombing of Gaza. Apparently the Israeli newspapers have
more guts to call a spade a spade, or a war crime a war crime, than
our US papers.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050459.html

David M. Snedeker

ff in Cuba
 

DaveS wrote:

I find it much more disturbing how the Israelis are setting up the
playing field for extorting more money from the US and keeping Obama
in line, with this bull**** they have staged in Gaza.

I don't think there's any ff to speak of in Gaza.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 29, 5:34*am, rw wrote:

And there was even less FF in 1944 Warsaw.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10015.shtml

Dave

ff in Cuba
 

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:30:34 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

I find it much more disturbing how the Israelis are setting up the
playing field for extorting more money from the US and keeping Obama
in line, with this bull**** they have staged in Gaza.

If the Canuckistans started lobbing unguided missles towards Whidbey
Island, killing U.S. citizens, do ya think that we would have the
right to respond to such terrorism? Or, do you think that we should
just sit back, make more treaties for Canuckistanian Hamas to break,
and let them continue to kill our citizens.

Hamas is infamous for putting missle pads in populated areas. THEY
are at fault, Dave, not the Jews. The Jews have a right, just as you
do on Whidbey Island, to defend themselves. Hamas broke this latest
cease fire, not Israel.

Over the years, David, I have noticed an anti-Jew bend to your
idealogy. Why is that?

Dave

ff in Cuba
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
DaveS wrote:
I find it much more disturbing how the Israelis are setting up the
playing field for extorting more money from the US and keeping Obama
in line, with this bull**** they have staged in Gaza.

snip
Over the years, David, I have noticed an anti-Jew bend to your
idealogy. Why is that?

It's the typical right-wing ideologue who always conflates any
criticism of Israel with "anti-Jew".

I say we should arm Hamas with guns, tanks, jets and a couple
of dozen nukes just to even the playing field and then turn
them loose on each other. No matter who "wins" the whole area
will end up a nuclear wasteland for the foreseeable future
but at least it will have been confined to Palestine.

--
Ken Fortenberry

ff in Cuba
 

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:50:43 -0600, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

I say we should arm Hamas with guns, tanks, jets and a couple
of dozen nukes

You do that and they'll use it on us -- Illinois first, I say. Works
for me. Get two assholes at once - the gov and a has-been author who
never was.

Dave, right wing conspirator

ff in Cuba
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Illinois first, I say. Works
for me. Get two assholes at once - the gov and a has-been author who
never was.

"has-been author who never was."

I guess I haven't been reading the news lately. Who dat?

- JR

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 29, 3:56*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Bizarre anology snipped

Over the years, David, I have noticed an anti-Jew bend to your
idealogy. *Why is that? *

Dave

It is because you have a serious learning disability David. Most
people wear their head OUTSIDE their anus. Someone should have told
you about that sooner, much sooner.

David? Have you ever seen a war you didn't like? You must think you
are a better and more patriotic Israeli than the Israelis who have
condemed the attacks on the Gaza civilians, as the link to the Haaretz
newspaper I provided show. Try reading the Israeli newspapers and see
why some Israelis are calling this another Omert screwup, and a war
crime.

David Snedeker
(My bet he will start calling these Israelis anti-semites, for
speaking out against an atrocity)

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 29, 8:20*pm, JR wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:
Illinois first, I say. *Works
for me. *Get two assholes at once - the gov and a has-been author who
never was. *

"has-been author who never was."

I guess I haven't been reading the news lately. *Who dat?

- JR

Its hard to know. When I really feel that rare need to deconstruct
some of this babel I dial up Rush, record about 10 minutes, then play
it backwards at double speed. Sometimes there is a primitive message
there that kinda matches Dave's reference. Sometimes its just an Orvis
ad.

Dave

ff in Cuba
 

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:58:02 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

On Dec 29, 8:20*pm, JR wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:
Illinois first, I say. *Works
for me. *Get two assholes at once - the gov and a has-been author who
never was. *

"has-been author who never was."

I guess I haven't been reading the news lately. *Who dat?

- JR

Its hard to know. When I really feel that rare need to deconstruct
some of this babel I dial up Rush, record about 10 minutes, then play
it backwards at double speed. Sometimes there is a primitive message
there that kinda matches Dave's reference. Sometimes its just an Orvis
ad.

Dave

d;o) Well, I was answering a Fortenberry post, so you figure it out.

Haven't listen to Limbaugh in more than a year. Didn't realize you
could do that with the secret messages. Cool!

Dave, RWC

ff in Cuba
 

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:34:30 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

Have you ever seen a war you didn't like?

Dave, just about every professional military person I have met abhors
war, and that includes me. However, the Israelis have a right to
exist. Hamas is a known terrorist organization, totally supported by
Iran. Iran's goal is to destroy Israel without using their own
forces. They did well with their terrorist forces in Lebanon, and now
it seems people like you are supporting their effort elsewhere in
Israel. *Israel has the right to exist*. Leave her alone.

Hamas broke this cease fire, one that has lasted since June. It
wasn't the Jews who started this one, but Hamas. Why? Could it be
that Hamas is afraid of losing big in the up-coming Palestinian
elections? They need to rile, stir up the people, and at the same
time they get sympathetic responses from assholes living safely in
their little cottages on Whidbey Island, Urbana, and elsewhere.

Dave

ff in Cuba
 

Fortenberry made lots of sense when he stated we should arm Hamas, and
arm them well. Then, perhaps, they'll set up a rocket pad in Canada
and indisciminately lob missles into the U.S. One could only hope
that those pure and blessed liberals living on Whidbey Island would be
the target. Hey, works for me. Reap what you sow, Dave.

Dave RWC

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 30, 7:28*am, Dave LaCourse wrote:

It must be some comfort to waddle in ignorance, repeat old slogans and
avoid first person accounts of people on the scene. Of course if that
fails you can always declare anyone anti-Semitic who actually reads
the Israeli papers, looks at the video that is mostly blocked in the
U.S., etc.

As to where I live, its Bainbridge, not Whidbey Island, and "little
cottage(s)" is not a description that fits the old rambling farmhouse
I live in.

Funny thing about trying to starve a people into rejecting the Hamas
government they elected, in an election the U.S. supported: before
they die, they fight back with whatever they can, be it homemade
rockets, rocks, etc..

David Snedeker

ff in Cuba
 

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:40:50 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

It must be some comfort to waddle in ignorance, repeat old slogans and
avoid first person accounts of people on the scene. Of course if that
fails you can always declare anyone anti-Semitic who actually reads
the Israeli papers, looks at the video that is mostly blocked in the
U.S., etc.

When *your* man, Obama, visited the spot during his campaign, he said
that if he lived withing the range of Hamas' rockets/motors, that he
(Obama) would react to save the lives of his family. What is so
different between Obama's family and the Jewish families living within
range of these weapons. Once again, Hamas broke the cease fire, not
Israel. Your slip is showing.

As to where I live, its Bainbridge, not Whidbey Island, and "little
cottage(s)" is not a description that fits the old rambling farmhouse
I live in.

Cottage, smottage, carriage house, farmhourse, whateverthe****, I
could only hope that Hamas would target your neiborhood be it
Bainbridge, Whidbey, or wherever.

Funny thing about trying to starve a people into rejecting the Hamas
government they elected, in an election the U.S. supported: before
they die, they fight back with whatever they can, be it homemade
rockets, rocks, etc..

They aren't fighting back. They are terrorists. They should be taken
out and let the Palestinians at peace with the Jews. Hamas is Iran.
Oh, how I wish Iran had some Hamas in Canada across the border from
you. It would be so poetic if the Gread Snedeker, the Peace Loving
Liberal, the Nevile Chamberlain of the West was bombed by Hamas
terrorists. Oh, if only...............

Dave, RWC

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 30, 3:32*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
They aren't fighting back. *They are terrorists. *

What I don't know about the I/P conflict is a lot; but I do know that
it has zero chance at a peaceful resolution so long as folks (not you
personally) continue to see things as black and white, good and bad.
The truth is, there is a lot of gray in between; but centuries of
division and hatred obscure rational assessment by proponents of both
sides.

When Hamas sends rockets into civilian, residential neighborhoods with
no regard for innocent lives, that's terrorism; but it's no less
terrorism when Israel does it with war planes. The indiscriminate
killing of civilians for political effect is terrorism, pure and
simple, regardless if it's a handful of extremists or an established
government that we support.

What I see from way over here in my (relatively) safe, comfortable
life are two sides so ****ed up by centuries of racial hatred and
animosity that the extremists can too easily sway enough of their
respective populaces into continuing the insanity for at least another
generation.

If Israel wants to take out a Hamas leader, that's arguably a military
decision; and I'm in no position to object, but if they do it by
destroying the building he lives in along with a few innocent
families, well that's something I want my government to have no hand
in or support for.

Joe F.

ff in Cuba
 

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:10:19 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

When Hamas sends rockets into civilian, residential neighborhoods with
no regard for innocent lives, that's terrorism; but it's no less
terrorism when Israel does it with war planes. The indiscriminate
killing of civilians for political effect is terrorism, pure and
simple, regardless if it's a handful of extremists or an established
government that we support.

Joe, if the Palestinian people allow Hamas to put rocket
launchers/pads in their front yard, then they are part of it and
should expect bad things to happen. The Jews can not stand by and let
Hamas indiscriminately lob unguided munitions into perfectly innocent
Israeli neighborhoods. They *must* react somehow. Hamas is
nortorious for placing their rocket launchers within highly populated
areas. We should be asking ourselves why these butchers don't put
their launch sites in a field, or park, or anyplace that is not
populated. They do it on purpose, knowing that the Jews have no other
alternative but to destroy the site. Hamas is backed by Iran. That
automatically makes *them* the bad guy in this fight.

The Israelis are using so-called "smart" bombs that can be aimed very
precisely. Hamas has told their people that if they die in one of
these attacks that they will be martyrs and go to heaven. I say give
them that chance. Or, have Hamas put their terrorist weapons in
fields, parks, unoccupied spaces. I have absolutely no sympathy for
anyone that allows Hamas to do this and dies as a result of it.

Obama is on Israel's side in this one. That comes as a complete
surprise to me. Well done, Mr. President-elect.

Dave, RWC

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 30, 4:41*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Joe, if the Palestinian people allow Hamas to put rocket
launchers/pads in their front yard, then they are part of it and
should expect bad things to happen. *The Jews can not stand by and let
Hamas indiscriminately *lob unguided munitions into perfectly innocent
Israeli neighborhoods. *They *must* react somehow. *

Certainly those who are complicit in the attacks should reasonably
expect to be the focus of the retribution; but we don't know that's
what's happening. I doubt those in the neighborhoods have any more
control over Hamas than we do. You're some poor Palestinian schmuck
and you're going to run out and chase armed terrorists off your lawn?
Don't think so.

And by the same token, if Israeli families continue to support leaders
who attack Palestinian families, shouldn't *they* expect bad things to
happen? The line between innocent and complicit isn't as clear as you
want to draw it.


Hamas is
nortorious for placing their rocket launchers within highly populated
areas. *We should be asking ourselves why these butchers don't put
their launch sites in a field, or park, or anyplace that is not
populated. *They do it on purpose, knowing that the Jews have no other
alternative but to destroy the site. *

But they *do* have a choice. Regrettably, they have too often chosen
indiscriminate civilian deaths as an acceptable cost for revenge. I
don't like what Hamas does; but Israel's not taking the high road
either.


Obama is on Israel's side in this one. *

US support of Israel should come as no surprise to anybody. Whatever
warm body occupies the Oval Office won't change that until there's a
Palestinian lobby to rival AIPAC.

*Well done, Mr. President-elect.

Well that comes as a complete surprise to me. g

Joe F.

ff in Cuba
 

In article , Dave LaCourse
wrote:

If the Canuckistans started lobbing unguided missles towards Whidbey
Island, killing U.S. citizens, do ya think that we would have the
right to respond to such terrorism? Or, do you think that we should
just sit back, make more treaties for Canuckistanian Hamas to break,
and let them continue to kill our citizens.

Hamas is infamous for putting missle pads in populated areas. THEY
are at fault, Dave, not the Jews. The Jews have a right, just as you
do on Whidbey Island, to defend themselves. Hamas broke this latest
cease fire, not Israel.


Hi Dave

Happy Christmas

In the past eight years, the militant rockets and mortars fired from
Gaza have killed 20 people inside Israel. Three of those were killed on
Monday, including a soldier, and one died on Saturday when the bombing
first started.

Recent Israeli attacks on Palestinian territories include:

January 2006: Israel fires artillery rounds into Gaza and bombs
buildings after Hamas wins Palestinian elections

June 2006: Operation Summer Rain follows the capture of an Israeli
soldier. A total of 240 Palestinians are killed in two months of
bombing and ground raids

November 2006: Operation Autumn Clouds, a six-day ground invasion of
Beit Hanoun, results in at least 50 Palestinian deaths. Another 18 from
one family are killed in artillery shelling

January 2008: A total of 18 Palestinians are killed in one day in an
Israeli incursion into al-Zaytoun

February 2008: Israeli troops go into Jabaliya; around 120 Palestinians
are killed in five days

December 2008: Operation Cast Lead is launched. At least 360
Palestinians are killed in the first four days

You guys talk about your free press: is it right that you know all
these facts and feel that Palestine is clearly the agressor, and Israel
is merely responding reasonably?

Lazarus

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 30, 1:41*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:

So let me see . . . in Northern Ireland, why didn't the British just
bomb the **** out of Catholic residential neighborhoods where IRA
"terrorists" lived? Maybe they should have listened to your vast cold
war experience? Because Israel's violent over reactions have worked so
well in the past? Right?

Why do you leave out the fact that the Israelis had cut off food and
fuel supplies to Gaza during the "ceasefire?"

What name calling do you have for Israelis who call this attack on
civilians another war crime? The opposition to this fascist right wing
death dance is large and growing among Israelis and the U.S. Jewish
community.

Why is it necessary to kill 100 Palestinians for every Israeli killed?
The Nazis felt satisfied to kill only10 Frenchies for each German
killed by partisans. Could this have any relationship to worldwide
Muslim outrage?

How many Palestinians were involved in 9/11?

You are probably unaware that the Israelis allegedly were involved
(Shin Bet I believe) in the early development and support of Hamas,
right?

It is time Americans started to read the information that is freely
available in the Israeli media and begin to understand that Israeli
internal politics, corruption investigations, land speculation,
underworld enterprise, arms sales and damaged military consulting
reputations (Georgia and Lebanon) are a major part of the motivations
for what is happening.

And David, the icing on the cake, as per your full bore ignorance on
the Mideast, is your snoretuttle on Obama. There is only one President
in recent memory who even stood up a little to the Israeli lobby and
IDF military skimmers, and he wasn't a Democrat. (Papa Bush). You
watch who is going to pay for all this killing. Uncle Sam.

David Snedeker

ff in Cuba
 

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:15:10 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

Certainly those who are complicit in the attacks should reasonably
expect to be the focus of the retribution; but we don't know that's
what's happening. I doubt those in the neighborhoods have any more
control over Hamas than we do. You're some poor Palestinian schmuck
and you're going to run out and chase armed terrorists off your lawn?
Don't think so.

Uh, if someone set a missle/motor pad in my front yard, you can be
damn sure I am going to leave the area. Does Hamas make the
Palestinian schmuck continue to live in the house, knowing it is going
to be a target for the Israeli bombs? I'm willing to bet that he is.

And by the same token, if Israeli families continue to support leaders
who attack Palestinian families, shouldn't *they* expect bad things to
happen? The line between innocent and complicit isn't as clear as you
want to draw it.

NO. Israel is a sovereign nation being attacked by an outside force.
I draw on my example of the Great White Peacemaker of the West, Sir
David Chamberlain Snedeker: if the Mexicans or the Canadians allowed
Hamas to shoot rockets and motors into the U.S. of A, do we not have
the right to defend ourselves? I think we do. The line is very
clear: You defend your nation from attacks by outside sources.
Period.


Hamas is
nortorious for placing their rocket launchers within highly populated
areas. *We should be asking ourselves why these butchers don't put
their launch sites in a field, or park, or anyplace that is not
populated. *They do it on purpose, knowing that the Jews have no other
alternative but to destroy the site. *

But they *do* have a choice. Regrettably, they have too often chosen
indiscriminate civilian deaths as an acceptable cost for revenge. I
don't like what Hamas does; but Israel's not taking the high road
either.

What choice do they have except to try and defeat Hamas? It's not
revenge - it's self defense. Hamas broke this truce, this cease fire.
They used the last 6 and half months to re-arm themselves with Iranian
rockets and mortars. There will be another cease fire *only* when
Hamas runs out of munitions. That's the way it works, and you should
know that.


Obama is on Israel's side in this one. *

US support of Israel should come as no surprise to anybody. Whatever
warm body occupies the Oval Office won't change that until there's a
Palestinian lobby to rival AIPAC.

*Well done, Mr. President-elect.

Well that comes as a complete surprise to me. g

Au contraire, mon ami. I said in September that I could live with
Obama as potus. It was a funny moment (or at least *I* thought it
funny) because I was replying to someone who would have jumped off the
Boston Pru building if McCain had won. I couldn't lose! d;o)

Dave

ff in Cuba
 

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:59:58 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

Why do you leave out the fact that the Israelis had cut off food and
fuel supplies to Gaza during the "ceasefire?"

lost of propaganda snipped

Gee, they cut off food and fuel supplies. Wow. But they didn't seem
to be able to cut of the munitions supplies. Why is that? You have
drank the coolaide, Dave. You believe everything you read in your
left wing nut publications. If it makes Israel look bad, you believe
it. Whatever the Israelis do it is not good. What would you say if
they took out Iran's nuclear capabilities? Would you applaud such a
move, or condemn them for (once again) defending themselves. Whose
side would you be on if all the Arab nations surrounding Israel once
again tried for total annihilation of the Israeli state? Never mind;
I know your answer.

Bottom line, David: Israel is a sovereign nation and has every right
to defend itself. Period. **** Hamas and every Muslim terrorist it
promises martyrdom. Hamas and Iran are not your friend, David, even
if you think an enemy of your enemy is your friend. Israel is your
enemy. Why? I have no idea. But your anti-Israeli bent has been
obvious for many years.

Dave, RWC

ff in Cuba
 

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:15:15 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article , Dave LaCourse
wrote:

If the Canuckistans started lobbing unguided missles towards Whidbey
Island, killing U.S. citizens, do ya think that we would have the
right to respond to such terrorism? Or, do you think that we should
just sit back, make more treaties for Canuckistanian Hamas to break,
and let them continue to kill our citizens.

Hamas is infamous for putting missle pads in populated areas. THEY
are at fault, Dave, not the Jews. The Jews have a right, just as you
do on Whidbey Island, to defend themselves. Hamas broke this latest
cease fire, not Israel.


Hi Dave

Happy Christmas

In the past eight years, the militant rockets and mortars fired from
Gaza have killed 20 people inside Israel. Three of those were killed on
Monday, including a soldier, and one died on Saturday when the bombing
first started.

Recent Israeli attacks on Palestinian territories include:

January 2006: Israel fires artillery rounds into Gaza and bombs
buildings after Hamas wins Palestinian elections

June 2006: Operation Summer Rain follows the capture of an Israeli
soldier. A total of 240 Palestinians are killed in two months of
bombing and ground raids

November 2006: Operation Autumn Clouds, a six-day ground invasion of
Beit Hanoun, results in at least 50 Palestinian deaths. Another 18 from
one family are killed in artillery shelling

January 2008: A total of 18 Palestinians are killed in one day in an
Israeli incursion into al-Zaytoun

February 2008: Israeli troops go into Jabaliya; around 120 Palestinians
are killed in five days

December 2008: Operation Cast Lead is launched. At least 360
Palestinians are killed in the first four days

You guys talk about your free press: is it right that you know all
these facts and feel that Palestine is clearly the agressor, and Israel
is merely responding reasonably?

Lazarus

Gee, Lazarus, you may have come upon something. Why don't you e-mail
the Hamas leaders and give them this info. I am sure they will then
see that they are fighting a no-win war and are doomed for
destruction.

Go Israel.


Dave, RWC

ff in Cuba
 

In article , Dave LaCourse
wrote:


Gee, Lazarus, you may have come upon something. Why don't you e-mail
the Hamas leaders and give them this info. I am sure they will then
see that they are fighting a no-win war and are doomed for
destruction.


The Brits had overwhelming military superiority over the Irish in 1920.

The French had overwhelming military superiority over the Algerians

The Americans had overwhelming military superiority over the Vietnamese.

The Russians had overwhelming superiority over the Afghans

In every case, a power trying to use overwhelming military superiority
over a native people.


Who won in the end?

Lazarus

(who might have added that the Brits were sure that they'd beat the
Yankees, as well)

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 30, 4:12*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Snip
I draw on my example of the Great White Peacemaker of the West, Sir
David Chamberlain Snedeker: *Snip


Dave your silly name calling is getting more and more beyond the pale.
Yep I am a progressive in my politics. And You, lad are a right
winger. Your Chamberlain business is historically inconsistent. In the
1930s people with your politics were goosestepping around New England
in Silvershirts, acquiring mild German accents and harassing Jews,
while saluting Father Coughlan, and advocating tolerance of Hitler and
Il Duce and his Blackshirts.

People with my politics and many leftists were already fighting in
Spain against the Nazis and Fascists on the Ebro River Front with the
Abraham Lincoln Brigade of American volunteers. Non Pasaron.

It took Joe McCarthy and his name-callers to make America forget after
the War that many Right-wingers of that era were Fascists and Nazi
sympathisers. As a few are to this day.

You need to read a little history boy.

Dave

ff in Cuba
 

Incidentally, Dave, I note that you haven't addressed any of the facts.

Like the West Bank, the Gaza Strip has been illegally occupied by
Israel since 1967. Israel has complete control by sea, air and land.
Since Hamas won the Palestinian elections in 2006, Israel has kept up a
blockade of essential supplies.

The Palestinians, like any occupied people, have a legal right of
resistance (whether they choose to exercise it or not).

But there is no right of defence for an illegal occupation - there is
an obligation to withdraw comprehensively.

During the last seven years, 20 Israelis have been killed by mostly
homemade rockets fired from the Gaza Strip, while more than 5,000
Palestinians have been killed by Israel with some of the most advanced
US-supplied armaments in the world.

One side is the illegal occupier.

The other is the occupied, who have a legal right of resistance.

So don't come on with that 'right to defend themselves' nonsense.

Israel has no more right to 'defend itself' against the Palestinians
than the Nazis had to defend themselves against the Poles, Czechs and
French whose territory they had invaded.

Lazarus
(who, unlike most Roffians, has seen what smashed-up children look
like, and doesn't like it)

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 30, 4:26*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:


Snip
enemy. *Why? *I have no idea. *But your anti-Israeli bent has been
obvious for many years. *

Dave, RWC

Well I guess you still haven't read the Israeli newspaper cite I gave
you. Or much else apparently.
Dave

ff in Cuba
 

On Dec 30, 5:04*pm, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:
SNIP
Lazarus
(who, unlike most Roffians, has seen what smashed-up children look
like, and doesn't like it)

Lazarus, no we don't look at that stuff. Most Americans cannot even
grasp the fact that American supplied and rush shipped cluster bombs
were dropped all over Southern Lebanon after the IDF retreat. Hundreds
of thousands of bomb-lets, manufactured to look like colorful little
toys, lethal for years and efficiently creating a generation of ripped
and maimed Lebanese children and bitter parents. No tactical purpose
whatsoever, other than to cover up IDF leadership bungling. I would
bet money that the Israeli public did not support this war crime. We
should not be giving these weapons to anybody for use against
civilians. It is barbaric.

Dave

ff in Cuba
 

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:52:36 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

In the
1930s people with your politics were goosestepping around New England
in Silvershirts, acquiring mild German accents and harassing Jews,
while saluting Father Coughlan, and advocating tolerance of Hitler and
Il Duce and his Blackshirts.

Perhaps so, but do not include me or my family with them. We were
Roosevelt Democrats. My first vote in an election was 1960, and JFK
received that vote. I was brought up as a liberal Democrat, and I
loathe Hitler, Il Duce, and everything they stand for. I feel the
same way about communists. Of course that is where you and I differ.
I consider myself a liberal when it comes to humane things and put my
money where my mouth is as far as that is concerned. I am first and
foremost an American, and anything that would harm that is not allowed
in my way of thinking. That most definitely includes Hamas and Iran.
They are my (and how ironic, YOUR) enemies.

I am a conservative when it comes to government providing everything
for everyone. People should work to receive money from the
government. If some people have to take a drug test to work, then
those that receive the government dole should also be required to pass
a drug test. I daily see people high on some kind of **** receiving
food stamps and selling them for 25 cents on the dollar. These same
people show up at the food pantry in new cars to receive their free
food. They haven't worked a day in their miserable lives, but are
happy to live on you and me and whatever aid they can get.

People should get pay raises because of their merit, not because they
pay a union boss to get them. I do not believe in unions - my father
taught me well on that one, being a Teamster for many decades and
seeing his dues go to gangsters.

I think that the present ******** economy is mostly caused by greed
and the idiotic dreams of Democrats to allow a person making $30k/year
to own a $400K home. Barney and Chris knew what was happening and did
nothing to prevent it. And wasn't it convenient how it "appeared"
right at a crucial time in the presidential campaign?

Drink your liberal koolaid, David, and if you believe in God, any god,
pray to him or her that you are never the recipient of a Hamas
humanitarian "reward". You know, the kind that goes "boom" in the
living room of your cottage or farmhouse in Bainbridge or Whidbey
Island.

I may not be as well educated as you, David, but I sure as hell am
more of a realist. I *know* what can and can not hurt me. Your
liberal anti-Israeli bent will get people killed. It already has.
You would kiss the feet of Ahmadinejad before you would support Israel
in *anything* she attempts. The only ideology that kills and sucks is
YOUR ideology, David, the one tainted with all the poisonous liberal
koolaid you have ingested.

Dave, RWC

ff in Cuba
 

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:16:36 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

Well I guess you still haven't read the Israeli newspaper cite I gave
you. Or much else apparently.

Surprise, surprise, David. I read it. It's a liberal rag, just like
the NYT. So what? You still haven't explained to me what you would
do if Hamas targeted your little secure white ass home with their
missles/mortars.

Dave, RWC

ff in Cuba
 

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:47:20 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

Who won in the end?

Well, I have an opinion only on VN. We lost that war because of
politics. And, I'm betting that the other wars were "lost" because of
politics.

Dave, RWC

ff in Cuba
 

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:04:20 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

Since Hamas won the Palestinian elections in 2006, Israel has kept up a
blockade of essential supplies.

All supplies *except* mortar rounds and missles.

Go Israel.

Dave, RWC

ff in Cuba
 

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:34:30 -0800 (PST), DaveS
wrote:

On Dec 29, 3:56*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Bizarre anology snipped

Over the years, David, I have noticed an anti-Jew bend to your
idealogy. *Why is that?

Probably due to torture at the hands of Mormons...*

Dave

It is because you have a serious learning disability David. Most
people wear their head OUTSIDE their anus. Someone should have told
you about that sooner, much sooner.

And you'd think someone so intimately familiar with anal-cranial spatial
relations would be able to spell "analogy"...and actually, it's not so
bizarre...well, unless you take into account the fact that two groups to
which he refers are primarily a bunch of pussies...

David? Have you ever seen a war you didn't like? You must think you
are a better and more patriotic Israeli than the Israelis who have
condemed the attacks on the Gaza civilians, as the link to the Haaretz
newspaper I provided show. Try reading the Israeli newspapers and see
why some Israelis are calling this another Omert screwup, and a war
crime.

Oh, there's always pacifist pussies calling every war/action "immoral,"
but that doesn't change the fact that Hamas started this one, so ****
'em. It's pretty hard to get too worked up when the person who started
the fight gets their ass handed back in a bag. And citing someone like
Gideon Levy isn't actually saying much about where the overall Israeli
sentiment is on this.

David Snedeker
(My bet he will start calling these Israelis anti-semites, for
speaking out against an atrocity)

My bet is that guys like you, Lazarus, and Joe don't have a friggin'
clue as to what you are blathering about, and Louie would be curled up
in his Simms G112 1/2s asking for his mommy if he were on either side of
a real shooting war.

And there you are,
R

ff in Cuba
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Haven't listen to Limbaugh in more than a year. Didn't realize you
could do that with the secret messages. Cool!

It's time to start planning a glorious Winter sal****er ff trip!

http://tinyurl.com/a6qfsb

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.