salt water.....
 

Depends on where you are fishing. I use an 8wt for stripers in the
Sacramento Delta. Brackish water. Lots of schoolie rockcod are caught with
4-6wt in the kelp bed areas of Calif. These fish run 2-5#. But for
sailfish, tarpon, etc, you are going to go much bigger.

"asadi" wrote in message
...
I've never really fished any salt water, Heck I live in Ohio 12 hours from
the briny sea....

So, quite naturally I have decided delve into salt water fishing. Now, I
am not a good trout fisherman by any means but I catch a few and my 'fun
factor' and enjoyment of the sport is right up there with anybody's, so I
am thinking, heck, why not?

I've done just a little research and know that I could fish runs and river
mouths and maybe even reefs with my 8 weight...at present I have only a
sinking tip but have a spare spool for a full sinking...

I am wondering if I should go to a 9 or 10 or even more weight and/or
investigate ...ummm....what do you call them? "shooting heads?" Do those
allow greater distance or greater depth?

Now, I am not asking anyone to school me or go out of their way...but a
comment and a link would be sincerely appreciated....

...maybe I could even get an eye patch...har, har, har me maties!

john

salt water.....
 

I've never really fished any salt water, Heck I live in Ohio 12 hours from
the briny sea....

So, quite naturally I have decided delve into salt water fishing. Now, I am
not a good trout fisherman by any means but I catch a few and my 'fun
factor' and enjoyment of the sport is right up there with anybody's, so I am
thinking, heck, why not?

I've done just a little research and know that I could fish runs and river
mouths and maybe even reefs with my 8 weight...at present I have only a
sinking tip but have a spare spool for a full sinking...

I am wondering if I should go to a 9 or 10 or even more weight and/or
investigate ...ummm....what do you call them? "shooting heads?" Do those
allow greater distance or greater depth?

Now, I am not asking anyone to school me or go out of their way...but a
comment and a link would be sincerely appreciated....

....maybe I could even get an eye patch...har, har, har me maties!

john

salt water.....
 

On Feb 23, 4:29*pm, "asadi" wrote:
I've never really fished any salt water, Heck I live in Ohio 12 hours from
the briny sea....

So, quite naturally I have decided delve into salt water fishing. *Now, I am
not a good trout fisherman by any means but I catch a few and my 'fun
factor' and enjoyment of the sport is right up there with anybody's, so I am
thinking, heck, why not?

I've done just a little research and know that I could fish runs and river
mouths and maybe even reefs with my 8 weight...at present I have only a
sinking tip but have a spare spool for a full sinking...

I am wondering if I should go to a 9 or 10 or even more weight and/or
investigate ...ummm....what do you call them? *"shooting heads?" *Do those
allow greater distance or greater depth?

Now, I am not asking anyone to school me or go out of their way...but a
comment *and a link would be sincerely appreciated....

...maybe I could even get an eye patch...har, har, har me maties!

john

john, the only real salt water ffing i have done involved average
sized bones on the island of bonaire, so i'm far from an expert.
however, i believe you could get by down east in the old north state
with a 9 by 9 and floating line for most fly fishing efforts. you are
just not going to have fun trying to catch much of anything really
deep.
waldo or jeffie are far more fecund sources than i, however.
maybe they'll be along, soon.

if you get down this way in the spring, stop by at the big house
in rowan county for another little country excursion.

yfitons
wayno

salt water.....
 

On Feb 23, 4:35*pm, " wrote:
i believe you could get by down east in the old north state
with a 9 by 9 and floating line for most fly fishing efforts. *you are
just not going to have fun trying to catch much of anything really
deep.

That summarizes the difficulties I had on the few occasions I tried
salt. I found I really just don't like fishing sinking lines. On a
trout stream, you have relatively short casts, you pick up the line, &
cast it again. Simple, sweet.

But 50' or more of sinking line? You can't just pick that up & cast
it again. (Well, I couldn't.) Strip it most of the way back in, then
false cast a few times to shoot more line before you can drop it out
there where the fish might be. Part (probably most) of my problem was
that I suck at that & really wasn't having fun.

I can handle the sink tip for the shad runs because the casts are
shorter & the activity more like trout or steelhead fishing; but I
never warmed up to sal****er stuff. Not enough opportunities to
improve, methinks.

Joe F.

salt water.....
 

On Feb 23, 1:29*pm, "asadi" wrote:
I've never really fished any salt water, Heck I live in Ohio 12 hours from
the briny sea....

So, quite naturally I have decided delve into salt water fishing. *Now, I am
not a good trout fisherman by any means but I catch a few and my 'fun
factor' and enjoyment of the sport is right up there with anybody's, so I am
thinking, heck, why not?

I've done just a little research and know that I could fish runs and river
mouths and maybe even reefs with my 8 weight...at present I have only a
sinking tip but have a spare spool for a full sinking...

I am wondering if I should go to a 9 or 10 or even more weight and/or
investigate ...ummm....what do you call them? *"shooting heads?" *Do those
allow greater distance or greater depth?

Now, I am not asking anyone to school me or go out of their way...but a
comment *and a link would be sincerely appreciated....

...maybe I could even get an eye patch...har, har, har me maties!

john

The varieties of sal****er fishing are at least as numerous as those
of freshwater fishing.

You'll have to be more specific about what you're planning.

salt water.....
 

On Feb 23, 10:29*pm, "asadi" wrote:
I've never really fished any salt water, Heck I live in Ohio 12 hours from
the briny sea....

So, quite naturally I have decided delve into salt water fishing. *Now, I am
not a good trout fisherman by any means but I catch a few and my 'fun
factor' and enjoyment of the sport is right up there with anybody's, so I am
thinking, heck, why not?

I've done just a little research and know that I could fish runs and river
mouths and maybe even reefs with my 8 weight...at present I have only a
sinking tip but have a spare spool for a full sinking...

I am wondering if I should go to a 9 or 10 or even more weight and/or
investigate ...ummm....what do you call them? *"shooting heads?" *Do those
allow greater distance or greater depth?

Now, I am not asking anyone to school me or go out of their way...but a
comment *and a link would be sincerely appreciated....

...maybe I could even get an eye patch...har, har, har me maties!

john

Practically everything depends on your target species and their
habits. Here is some info on shooting heads;

What is a "shooting head"? What can I do with it? Do I really need
one?

Basically a shooting head is just a piece of line of a certain length
and weight, designed to carry out a specific task.

Although shooting heads are widely considered to be pure distance
tools, this is not at all the case. Of course they are excellent
distance tools, but when correctly set up, they can be used for a
whole host of things. The abbreviation used for shooting heads is
"ST". For instance, a ready made head might be designated ST#7F. This
translates to "Shooting Taper, AFTM #7, Floater.

The AFTMA, American Fishing Tackle Manufacturers Association, which is
now the ASA, American Sportfishing Association, originally defined
some standards for fly lines. These standards were based on the first
thirty feet of any given line, ( excluding any level tip, if present),
and have been in use for a long time now.

The "taper" on most shooting heads is the same as the taper on the
front of a DT on standard heads, but there are in the meantime a great
many "special" tapers available.

Of course one may buy shooting heads "ready-made", including those
with special tapers, but these will practically never match either the
rod, or your preferences.

How do I get one suited to my particular purposes then? First of all,
one has to determine what those purposes might be. It is also as well
to know how these things are defined, and the nomenclature in use.

A shooting head is basically any piece of line other than a full line,
which is joined to shooting line by a knot or similar. That is to say,
any line where the shooting line is not "integrated" at manufacture.

Any line with a head and running line section which are seamlessly
integrated, may be referred to as Weight Forward ( WF) fly line.
Rocket Tapers, Bass Bug Tapers, Sal****er Tapers, Steelhead Tapers,
etc are all weight Forward Fly Lines. The integrated shooting line, is
in this case referred to as "running line".

On a head, this line is referred to as "shooting line". That is the
only basic difference between a shooting head and a weight forward
line.

Assume we wanted a head for pure distance casting, then we must find a
piece of line which suits our rod and other preferences exactly. As
this particular type of casting is more suited to the competition and
tournament fields, we will leave this for the moment, and move on to
more practical considerations. Suffice it to say here, that the
shooting head for distance is irrevocably linked to the double haul,
which was first introduced to competition casting by Marvin Hedge at
the 1934 Nationals in St. Louis.

Here we are mainly interested in a specific practical use for shooting
heads, namely, fly fishing in salt-water.

As a shooting head rarely even enters the rod-rings during this type
of fishing, it does not have to be of any extreme quality. One may use
mill end DT´s and cut them as desired. This is cheap and easy.

How does one decide what weight line to use in the first place?

As a rough guide, here is a table, for roughly matching fly-sizes to
lines. The larger the number ( up to size 1/0) the smaller the hook.
Above 1/0 the larger the number, the larger the hook;

Line Weight Fly size
3 28 -12
4 up to 10
5 up to 8
6 up to 6
7 up to 4
8 12 - 1/0
9 up to 2/0
10 up to 3/0
11 up to 4/0
12 up to 6/0

There is a lot of overlap, and heavy ( weighted) or bulky flies will
require a heavier line than indicated in the table. There is a lot of
nonsense talked about "weightless" flies etc. Here again, there is no
such animal. The larger the fly the heavier it is. Bulky flies also
have more air resistance and need heavier lines to carry them.

Double hauling will increase the weight of fly which can be carried,
as it generates more line speed. A shooting head will carry the most
weight in any given range.

This is the AFTM line rating table. It is the only set of standards in
existence for fly-fishing tackle. There are no others. The figures
given are for the first thirty feet of a line, including the taper,
but excluding the level tip, ( if present).


http://www.sexyloops.com/beginners/lesson2/aftm.shtml

It will be seen that 30 feet of #12 line weighs 0.86 ounces. Most of
my #12 salt- water and pike fishing heads weigh a full ounce, as they
are slightly longer than thirty feet. Once again, as a rough guide,
most #6 rated rods, will cast a full ounce without difficulty.

A one ounce weight will carry a relatively heavy fly a long way.

Assuming that you already have a rod you wish to use, then you need to
find a "rough" match for it, so that you know which weight line to
buy.

Assume further that the AFTM rating on the rod is accurate. Assume the
rod has a rating of #8. This means that the rod will theoretically
cast optimally with thirty feet of #8 line outside the tip.

This is "NEVER" the case! Most rods will cast much heavier weights
than they are rated for, as they must usually be capable of casting a
whole DT! This means that this particular rod will cast ninety feet of
#8 line! Ninety feet of #8 line weighs 630 grains!!! Or 1.44 oz! As a
general rule, and a matter of experience, the optimum casting weight
for such a rod usually lies at about two thirds of this weight = ~ 400
grains which is about an ounce.

We only wish to cast thirty feet or so of line. So we need to look at
line that will give us something like this weight for thirty feet.

Looking at the AFTM table we see that thirty feet of #12 line weighs
380 grains (+/- 12 grains tolerance). So in this case, I would simply
put a #12 DT on the rod, and casting normally, without hauling etc,
slowly extend line, until I found the optimum weight and length, and
then cut this at the rod tip. This line will be about thirty to thirty
five feet long, depending how accurate the line tolerances are, and
the rod rating. That was it! Quite simple really. Just attach this
"head" to shooting backing, and you have a perfectly matched head.

Furthermore, if you weigh this head, you know exactly what weight of
floater this rod will cast perfectly. IRRESPECTIVE OF ITS LENGTH!!!
( Within limits of course). If you want better more delicate
presentation, choose a longer length of line with the same weight.
Some casters prefer longer heads, up to 45 feet, or even more. But
these can have disadvantages for sal****er fishing, and less than
perfect casters.

If you wish to use intermediate or sinking lines, the principle is the
same, but take more care when casting the DT. Sinking and intermediate
lines of the same weight, travel a lot faster than floaters, as a
result of their lesser diameter, and greater density, this also loads
the rod more. You will almost certainly find that an intermediate line
about one line rating lower than the floater will be about optimal,
and a high density sinker about two ratings lower will be optimal.

There are numerous advantages to such heads. You always cast the same
length and weight of line, and this is easier . They are cheap! You
get at least two heads out of a standard DT. They take up less room on
the reel. They can be used in pretty tight conditions. You can loop on
whatever head you wish to use in a very short time. I carry my heads
loosely coiled in a "CD" wallet.

Of course you can use WF lines, which basically are just shooting
heads spliced to running line, "integrated" heads, which are more or
less the same, or even full DT lines. But if you are serious about
salt-water fishing, with relatively "conventional" fly-gear, then
there is no real alternative to a well matched set of shooting heads.

For the majority of coastal salt-water fishing for sea-trout etc an
intermediate line will be found most useful. For other species and
purposes you will need other equipment.

TL
MC

salt water.....
 

On Feb 23, 10:29*pm, "asadi" wrote:

...maybe I could even get an eye patch...har, har, har me maties!

john

You can do without an eye-patch, but if you don't want to end up with
one, then wear eye protection when fly-casting.

TL
MC

salt water.....
 

"rb608" wrote

But 50' or more of sinking line? You can't just pick that up & cast
it again.


shooting heads make a big difference

I've had good success with heads "too heavy" for the rod that I cut back a
inch or two at a time until they balanced that rod to my feel ... this
leaves you with a shorter than stock head. You still have to retrieve all
the way in or close to it ( not as hard for me since my experience is
limited to Stripers and they sometimes wait til they are damn near bumping
the boat to hit ) but one false cast to get the overhang you need ( head out
the guides ) and one delivery cast with a haul and you're fishing again at a
good long distance. ( unless the running line tangles or you step on it ;-)


OH, OH, major flashback ... visualize a great haul and cast abruptly
stopped short by standing on the line


Now the story. My bride and I were backpacking and stopped in Little
Yosemite Valley ( aka black bear heaven ) the first night. To get the
packs and food up out of bears reach I tied a good sized rock to the end of
some 1/8" nylon rope, wound up swinging the rock in circles on the end of a
couple feet of line, and aiming to launch it over a distant limb in a tree,
let go. It zoomed at great speed towards that target ... until it came
up short because I was standing on most of the rope. Back came that rock
bashing me in the head and causing me to bleed a great deal, ... which was
almost as bad as the ego damageG.

Larry L ( macho outdoors guy extraordinaire ;-)

salt water.....
 

On Feb 24, 4:55*am, "asadi" wrote:

I rather have peanut butter on my head than blood!

john

I thought you liked being stoned?

salt water.....
 

On Feb 24, 12:25*am, "Larry L" wrote:
* Back came that rock
bashing me in the head and causing me to bleed a great deal, ... which was
almost as bad as the ego damageG.

Larry L ( macho outdoors guy extraordinaire ;-)

I never did like many rock comebacks.

salt water.....
 

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"rb608" wrote

But 50' or more of sinking line? You can't just pick that up & cast
it again.


shooting heads make a big difference

I've had good success with heads "too heavy" for the rod that I cut back a
inch or two at a time until they balanced that rod to my feel ... this
leaves you with a shorter than stock head. You still have to retrieve
all the way in or close to it ( not as hard for me since my experience is
limited to Stripers and they sometimes wait til they are damn near bumping
the boat to hit ) but one false cast to get the overhang you need ( head
out the guides ) and one delivery cast with a haul and you're fishing
again at a good long distance. ( unless the running line tangles or you
step on it ;-)


OH, OH, major flashback ... visualize a great haul and cast abruptly
stopped short by standing on the line


Now the story. My bride and I were backpacking and stopped in Little
Yosemite Valley ( aka black bear heaven ) the first night. To get the
packs and food up out of bears reach I tied a good sized rock to the end
of some 1/8" nylon rope, wound up swinging the rock in circles on the end
of a couple feet of line, and aiming to launch it over a distant limb in a
tree, let go. It zoomed at great speed towards that target ... until
it came up short because I was standing on most of the rope. Back came
that rock bashing me in the head and causing me to bleed a great deal, ...
which was almost as bad as the ego damageG.

Larry L ( macho outdoors guy extraordinaire ;-)

I rather have peanut butter on my head than blood!

john

salt water.....
 

"Larry L" wrote

good long distance. ( unless the running line tangles or you step on it
;-)



A stripping apron or better yet ( in a boat) basket is more than worth the
$$

The best I've ever used was basically a dish pan with truncated cones on the
bottom ... maybe an Orvis product?

I have a mesh apron supported by a belt that is "OK" but is hard to hit when
stripping fast and doesn't prevent tangles any where near as well as the
cone dealies

If i were planning a "cast, strip, cast, strip, cast, strip, cast, strip" -
trip I would certainly take shooting heads and get a cone style
stripping basket, the efficiency of the combination would add up to LOTS of
extra "fly in the water, actually fishing" time over a day

salt water.....
 

On Feb 24, 10:53*pm, "Larry L" wrote:

* I would certainly take shooting heads and get a cone style
stripping basket, the efficiency of the combination would add up to LOTS of
extra "fly in the water, actually fishing" time over a day

This is better;
http://www.flexi-stripper.com/User_manual.htm

TL
MC

salt water.....
 

On Feb 25, 6:33*am, wrote:
On Feb 24, 10:53*pm, "Larry L" wrote:

** I would certainly take shooting heads and get a cone style

stripping basket, the efficiency of the combination would add up to LOTS of
extra "fly in the water, actually fishing" time over a day

This is better;http://www.flexi-stripper.com/User_manual.htm

TL
MC

Just don't trip and faceplant...

--riverman

salt water.....
 

I'd like to thank you all for you comments...they have been most
informative...

conner, great job - far above and beyond the call of duty, I have a much
better understanding of it all..

.....and oh my god....rowan county...what the hell, I ain't gona live
forever...

john

salt water.....
 

i did a 3 - 4 hr session in cabo on a small
"tonga"........hadn't been salt water fishin' for
years.....i had a gread guide, and got hooked
up to a gret variety of fish...well worth the time & $$





On Feb 26, 11:43*pm, "asadi" wrote:
I'd like to thank you all for you comments...they have been most
informative...

conner, great job - far above and beyond the call of duty, I have a much
better understanding of it all..

....and oh my god....rowan county...what the hell, I ain't gona live
forever...

john

salt water.....
 

I've done just a little research and know that I could fish runs and river
mouths and maybe even reefs with my 8 weight...at present I have only a
sinking tip but have a spare spool for a full sinking...

I am wondering if I should go to a 9 or 10 or even more weight and/or
investigate ...ummm....what do you call them? "shooting heads?" Do those
allow greater distance or greater depth?

John,

As usual I come late to these discussions but I would highly recommend
getting Lou Tabory's Inshore Fly Fishing - 8 bucks w/shipping on ebay.
The best investment in salt water fly rodding you can make IMO.
It should cover all the water you will encounter from Maine to South
Carolina.
I'd advise using smaller rods than he uses but what do I know? I am
not fishing as he does for stripers the size of small Korean cars.

Kiyu

salt water.....
 

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
...
i did a 3 - 4 hr session in cabo on a small
"tonga"........hadn't been salt water fishin' for
years.....i had a gread guide, and got hooked
up to a gret variety of fish...well worth the time & $$





On Feb 26, 11:43 pm, "asadi" wrote:
I'd like to thank you all for you comments...they have been most
informative...

conner, great job - far above and beyond the call of duty, I have a much
better understanding of it all..

....and oh my god....rowan county...what the hell, I ain't gona live
forever...

john


It is a Panga. 21-22'. Super Panga is 23-26' skiff.

The only real water ffing I did the average size of the bones involved in the Bonaire, so I am far from an expert. However, I believe you can get 99 East Old North State and float most of the fishing effort. You just do not have so much fun, trying to catch anything really deep.