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Rod costs
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Rod costs
Interesting article... however I get a bit cynical when a little research
reveals the author used to sell high profile brands with apparently a clear conscience, and only started this accounting exercise when he lost his agency... go figure. I would agree some brands are overpriced. It's the same with running shoes, Nike costs no more to make than generic brands sold in K-Mart, but one costs a lot more to market and some folks want big profits. Everyone has the freedom of choice to buy a cheapie or a "brand". The rods appearing now out of Asian countries are extremely serviceable, I have been impressed with Temple Forks for instance, but I still don't think they are not in the league of the premium brand I favor. I would use them, but they wouldn't be my first choice for my most common angling but would happily get one for my once a year sojourn up north for sal****er fishing for example. I guess it comes down to what the individual wants. A Lada will get me to the river, but if I could afford it I'd rather do it in a Mercedes. Plant and manufacture being somewhat the same there are a lot of things unseen that separates the two. I am sure you and the author are aware of that given your experience in this field. -- Clark Reid http://www.dryflynz.com Umpqua Designer Flytier "Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Some of you may find this interesting; http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml TL MC |
Rod costs
"Clark Reid" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... Interesting article... however I get a bit cynical when a little research reveals the author used to sell high profile brands with apparently a clear conscience, and only started this accounting exercise when he lost his agency... go figure. SNIP Unless one knows exactly what one is doing, or has the relevant information ( for a while, some very cheap Cabelaīs rods ( Three forks? etc) were being praised a lot on ROFF, from people who obviously are quite happy with them), then I would generally advise people to buy a good "name" rod. It depends on what they want it for, and how much they want to pay. My own particular preference is for some Sage rods. I have a few, and am very pleased with them. They happen to be very expensive, but thatīs just how it is. If you want top class, then you have to pay top class. I got most of mine ( in fact all except one),second hand as it happens, for much less than the current market price, and after I had cast and fished with the same models. That said, the market is now awash with various "cheapies", and some "not so cheapies", the vast majority of which are sourced in places like Korea and Taiwan. Some of these are very good indeed, and cheap, there are a lot of "mid-stream" models, nothing special, but serviceable, and others again are awful, and considerably overpriced. For most people, the "quality" of such rods, either price related or intrinsic, is practically impossible to determine. Very few people have the experience or knowledge, or even the opportunity to use a large variety of equipment, and as a consequence, they are also quite unable to make any decisions based on such. Mr.Parton is well known for his blunt honesty, and his often controversial style. I doubt that the loss of any "agency" would bother him much. It is quite clear that he is merely relating his knowledge and experience, ( as is his wont), and certainly not trying to sell anything with this article. Indeed, I have often heard Mr.Parton trying to dissuade people from buying various things. Often to no avail, as people tend to believe what they wish to believe, irrespective of the facts. What you or I, or Mr.Parton, might personally choose as fishing tools, as a result of our various knowledge and experience, or merely personal preference, is largely irrelevant, as this is highly unlikely to be the same choice that somebody on a limited budget, who wants to start fishing, or who only goes fishing twice a year, will make. Given the choice, I would also drive to the river in a Mercedes, but in the absence of such a choice I would also be grateful for the Lada. As long as I got to the river. TL MC |
Rod costs
"Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Some of you may find this interesting; http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml TL MC I found it to be a thought provokin' article, but as he said, I don't know squat about rod buildin' and don't care to for that matter. What bothered me though, about the article, was the absence of any political slant and that the "Far East" was mentioned in a derogatory manner for more so that the USA, what gives? Op --honestly, I thought the subject: Rod costs, and the hyperlink to sexyloops was going to be a bit more risqué. Oh well, can't win 'em all.-- |
Rod costs
One of Mr. Parton's comments struck a cord with me; "which is why most of
what you think is American or European Made isn't at all." I have a name brand rod (smaller name) that is known in the UK. It is clearly stamped "hand made in the UK." I bought it in the factory seconds store of a Korean rod manufacturer in Seoul. -- Frank Reid Reverse email to reply |
Rod costs
"Guyz-N-Flyz" schrieb im Newsbeitrag nk.net... SNIP I found it to be a thought provokin' article, but as he said, I don't know squat about rod buildin' and don't care to for that matter. What bothered me though, about the article, was the absence of any political slant and that the "Far East" was mentioned in a derogatory manner for more so that the USA, what gives? Op --honestly, I thought the subject: Rod costs, and the hyperlink to sexyloops was going to be a bit more risqué. Oh well, can't win 'em all.-- The "Far East", irrespective of any facts thereto pertaining, is traditionally associated by many Europeans, with cheap crap. The USA is still trying to catch up :) TL MC |
Rod costs
"Frank Reid" moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... One of Mr. Parton's comments struck a cord with me; "which is why most of what you think is American or European Made isn't at all." I have a name brand rod (smaller name) that is known in the UK. It is clearly stamped "hand made in the UK." I bought it in the factory seconds store of a Korean rod manufacturer in Seoul. -- Frank Reid Reverse email to reply Yeah, I have a couple of rods and other stuff which was sent to me by a Korean manufacturer, as "samples". I will refrain from publishing here what is stated on the rods, the various packaging, and the logos! The rods are very good, and excellently finished, with top quality fittings. At the time, I was still considering bringing out a range of my own rods, and was looking for more cost-effective manufacturing facilities. Eventually I ditched the idea, as the logistics were too complex and expensive, and my wallet was too light! Many people would doubtless be surprised at the present extent of this "outsourcing". There are not many true tackle manufacturers left in the market at all, quite a large percentage merely label the finished rods ( and all the other stuff), they buy in. This is ( intentionally of course) misleading, but really does not say much about the quality or otherwise of the products involved. If you buy a rod from a reputable company, ( or anywhere else for that matter!), and you are happy with it, then it really does not matter much where it was actually made. Globalisation is far more advanced than many people realise. It is a pure business necessity, quite independent of political or other considerations. It is also quite dangerous really, as few realise the complexity of the interdepencies which have developed as a result. TL MC |
Rod costs
Well it's taken us three years but we have found something we agree on,
virtually in the entirety. I have no basis on which to judge Mr. Parton and it seems you know of him to a much greater degree than I do. I was only basing my comments on his comments from his website... "LOOMIS , SAGE , OTHER AMERICANS You may be interested to know that we , along with all the other smaller Dealers got struck out by Sage a few seasons ago . We were very annoyed and it did take some effort to even get a thanks for your efforts letter out of them . What more do you expect from folks whose golf team goes whacko on the 17th in the Ryder Cup ! Loomis then welcomed us with open arms. And we did ok building on their blanks. But eventually we have decided after Loomis twice changed distributors in a very short time to formally discontinue any involvement with any American Blank or rod manufacturer . There are other reasons - firstly that we have seen the steady development by Dr Harrison of British Made Blanks of identical tip actioned styles to those favored by Americans generally . Nowadays British rods are at least as good if not practically better than American and they are far far cheaper ! And we can build them with proper handles and top grade rings suitable for British conditions . Secondly the growing realisation that Americans are pretty useless at all forms of Stillwater Fly Fishing - when will they even place at World Cup Level ? And when was the last time you met any normal American who could cast as far as you could ! So you had better ask yourself why do you want to buy rods from a nation of useless performers and do they know anything about stillwater rods at all except about cosmetising , advertising and marketting ?" For me these comments make it difficult to give credibility to Mr. Parton's remarks. Mainly because he did lose agencies for US rods that he seemed to like up until he lost them... also he uses The World Fly-Fishing Champs as a benchmark of intercontinental abilities and given the minute number of people who enter "competitive relaxation" competitions I think his slight on US anglers to be ridiculous. I also find using distance casting as a basis for judging fishing ability to be way off track also. Clark Reid http://www.dryflynz.com Umpqua Designer Flytier "Mike Connor" wrote in message ... "Clark Reid" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... Interesting article... however I get a bit cynical when a little research reveals the author used to sell high profile brands with apparently a clear conscience, and only started this accounting exercise when he lost his agency... go figure. SNIP Unless one knows exactly what one is doing, or has the relevant information ( for a while, some very cheap Cabelaīs rods ( Three forks? etc) were being praised a lot on ROFF, from people who obviously are quite happy with them), then I would generally advise people to buy a good "name" rod. It depends on what they want it for, and how much they want to pay. My own particular preference is for some Sage rods. I have a few, and am very pleased with them. They happen to be very expensive, but thatīs just how it is. If you want top class, then you have to pay top class. I got most of mine ( in fact all except one),second hand as it happens, for much less than the current market price, and after I had cast and fished with the same models. That said, the market is now awash with various "cheapies", and some "not so cheapies", the vast majority of which are sourced in places like Korea and Taiwan. Some of these are very good indeed, and cheap, there are a lot of "mid-stream" models, nothing special, but serviceable, and others again are awful, and considerably overpriced. For most people, the "quality" of such rods, either price related or intrinsic, is practically impossible to determine. Very few people have the experience or knowledge, or even the opportunity to use a large variety of equipment, and as a consequence, they are also quite unable to make any decisions based on such. Mr.Parton is well known for his blunt honesty, and his often controversial style. I doubt that the loss of any "agency" would bother him much. It is quite clear that he is merely relating his knowledge and experience, ( as is his wont), and certainly not trying to sell anything with this article. Indeed, I have often heard Mr.Parton trying to dissuade people from buying various things. Often to no avail, as people tend to believe what they wish to believe, irrespective of the facts. What you or I, or Mr.Parton, might personally choose as fishing tools, as a result of our various knowledge and experience, or merely personal preference, is largely irrelevant, as this is highly unlikely to be the same choice that somebody on a limited budget, who wants to start fishing, or who only goes fishing twice a year, will make. Given the choice, I would also drive to the river in a Mercedes, but in the absence of such a choice I would also be grateful for the Lada. As long as I got to the river. TL MC |
Rod costs
"Frank Reid" moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf wrote in message
... One of Mr. Parton's comments struck a cord with me; "which is why most of what you think is American or European Made isn't at all." I have a name brand rod (smaller name) that is known in the UK. It is clearly stamped "hand made in the UK." I bought it in the factory seconds store of a Korean rod manufacturer in Seoul. -- Frank Reid Reverse email to reply I remember you telling me that story. The question I have is whether it was actualy being shipped to and sold by the 'famous maker' or was intended for the knockoff market (like the $10 'Rolex' watches you can buy in any street corner in NYC). -- Stan Gula http://gula.org/roffswaps |
Rod costs
"Mike Connor" wrote in message ... ...Globalisation is far more advanced than many people realise....It is also quite dangerous really, as few realise the complexity of the interdepencies which have developed as a result. Agreed. However there are also some, at least potential, benefits. Economy of scale comes readily to mind. At any rate, the next few decades promise to be every bit as interesting as the last five or so.....I believe I'll stick around for a while and see what happens. :) Wolfgang who, considering the alternative, probably hasn't made all that tough or profound a decision. |
Rod costs
"Clark Reid" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... Well it's taken us three years but we have found something we agree on, virtually in the entirety. I have no basis on which to judge Mr. Parton and it seems you know of him to a much greater degree than I do. I was only basing my comments on his comments from his website... "LOOMIS , SAGE , OTHER AMERICANS You may be interested to know that we , along with all the other smaller Dealers got struck out by Sage a few seasons ago . We were very annoyed and it did take some effort to even get a thanks for your efforts letter out of them . SNIP I donīt necessarily agree with anything Mr.Parton has to say. In point of fact, I find such insulting polemic in regard to Americans, or indeed anybody else, distasteful, and unnecessary. He has however a long standing and well deserved reputation for bluff honesty, often coupled with rather rough humour. Although the facts of the matter do get rather lost as a result of the anti-American haranguing, ( which he does however do "tongue in cheek"), those he mentions are in actual fact pretty accurate. Very many American rods are ( and more especially "were") more or less completely unsuitable for use on the British stillwater fishing scene. This is merely a case of "horses for courses". As it happens, I have always been amazed at the enthusiasm which the boom in stillwater fishing generated in England. It began when I still lived there, and has increased exponentially ever since. Personally, I abhor fishing in concrete bowls for plastic fish, and would not do it, neither have I any time for "competition fishing", but these are the mainstays of modern day British fishing. Rather a tragedy in my opinion, but understandable, as there is very little fishing otherwise available to the general public. Excepting at astronomical cost, which few can afford anyway. Given this, it is no surprise to learn that rather different tackle and methods are required than those currently in use in America. There were a number of dealers building rods specifically for stillwater fishing, on various blanks. Most of these have disappeared in the meantime, manufacturers like Daiwa and a few others have now been producing suitable equipment for some time, at reasonable prices, and there are not all that many people who will pay a long way over the odds for a "custom" rod, especially as the marginal ( if even perceptible) increase in quality or suitability thus ostensibly obtained often causes a massive jump in the price. Even ignoring extras like special cosmetics etc. It seems that some of the manufacturers were not satisfied with the arrangements as they were, and simply pulled their blanks out. This is not quite the same thing as "losing an agency". Mr.Partonīs business operations are none of my affair, but he is without doubt one of the most knowledgeable anglers ( and dealers) extant, and he shares that knowledge freely. I for one am more than willing to forgive him the occasional quirk, as a result. Even though I may well not always like what he says, or how he says it. TL MC |
Rod costs
"Stan Gula" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP I remember you telling me that story. The question I have is whether it was actualy being shipped to and sold by the 'famous maker' or was intended for the knockoff market (like the $10 'Rolex' watches you can buy in any street corner in NYC). -- Stan Gula http://gula.org/roffswaps Canīt comment on Frankīs rod, it may well be a "knock-off" as you suggest, although this is actually unlikely. The rods in my possession, the reels, etc, and others I have seen, were produced specifically for the manufacturers whose logo they bear. I know this to be true, and I had quite a number of interesting discussions and correspondence about it with three separate "East" manufacturers. At the time I was still haggling with them about the price of screening my own logo etc on the rods they were going to produce for me, and also about the "hardware" type and quality. I wanted fuji cermets single leg stand-offs, fuji up-lock seats, special corks ( reel seat saddles), and similar stuff, and they spent a lot of time and effort trying to convince me otherwise ( the top quality hardware at least doubled, and in a couple of cases tripled the ex-factory price of the rods). Quite a lot of e-mail, various photos, and actual samples changed hands. These were not "knock-offs", but specifically produced for the companies in question. My final decision to quit, was actually made after it became clear that I would have to simply give them my mandrels and specs, thus losing virtually all control over the manufacturing process. The mandrels have since been destroyed in any case, as the money I was offered for them by a couple of firms, was little more than a bad joke. TL MC |
Rod costs
Mike Connor wrote:
Some of you may find this interesting; http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml TL MC thought provoking? pantload? who gives a ****? all i can say is that i'm happy as hell that my sage xp and ross evolution reel, loaded with sa wet-tip line backed with micron by cortland, performed flawlessly today with some bruisin cruisin catawbee imported german browns... ;-) happy new year all.... my first lovely of the year may well be talked about for many months... yeah baby! wally.... petah, the weemer is awesome but wally's blackie slayed 'em! |
Rod costs
"Mike Connor" wrote in message ... The "Far East", irrespective of any facts thereto pertaining, is traditionally associated by many Europeans, with cheap crap. The USA is still trying to catch up :) TL MC Thanks Mike, that clears up some of my confusion, yet there is still a great deal about which I am confused. I hope you can assist me to clarify matters, in the future. Op --less confused-- |
Rod costs
"Guyz-N-Flyz" schrieb im Newsbeitrag link.net... SNIP Thanks Mike, that clears up some of my confusion, yet there is still a great deal about which I am confused. I hope you can assist me to clarify matters, in the future. Op --less confused-- Ahhhh! Donīt be such a worrywart! :) TL MC |
Rod costs
"Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Ahhhh! Donīt be such a worrywart! :) Warts! How did you know about my wart problems? Now, not only are you a solutions man, but a psychic. Op --can you suggest a remove method that doesn't include, conjurin' or boilin' 'em?-- TL MC |
Rod costs
"Guyz-N-Flyz" schrieb im Newsbeitrag link.net... "Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Ahhhh! Donīt be such a worrywart! :) Warts! How did you know about my wart problems? Now, not only are you a solutions man, but a psychic. Op --can you suggest a remove method that doesn't include, conjurin' or boilin' 'em?-- TL MC A can of compressed air ( for freezing!) and a sharp knife. Or you can go "high-tech" here; http://www.warts.e-medicinehealth.co...ving-warts.htm or here; http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/5/prweb66817.htm For other solutions, including duct tape! try ; http://www.natural-health-treatment....ove-warts.html You can also remove most warts by putting a piece of damp willow bark or its extract ( salycylic acid) on the wart, and covering it with a loose plaster. Repeat as required. Some fall off in a matter of hours, others take a couple of days. For some info on the acid, see here; http://www.skincarerx.com/salicylicrx.html TL MC |
Rod costs
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:06:46 +0100, "Mike Connor"
wrote: Some of you may find this interesting; http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml TL MC another perspective . . . http://www.harrisonrods.co.uk/production.htm Peter turn mailhot into hotmail to reply Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html |
Rod costs
"Peter Charles" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP another perspective . . . http://www.harrisonrods.co.uk/production.htm Peter turn mailhot into hotmail to reply Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html Indeed, one of the best sites on the net. They also make absolutely first class gear! TL MC |
Rod costs
Then why bother contradicting tjem?
SNIP Oh itīs quite simple really. Up until a while ago, when other pressing considerations affected and altered my life more than somewhat, I was not merely enthusiastic about angling, I was completely obsessed by it, and still am to a considerable extent, even though I have not been fishing very often recently, and indeed for quite some time. Just talking about it with like minded people, most especially people who really know what they are talking about, is enjoyable for me. One may leran something from practically every angler, tyro or expert, and many prove to be most congenial companions to boot! Of course not all are congenial companions, but the real anglers almost always are. It is something intrinsic, which can not be explained unless you belong to the "clan of the elite". Sounds awfully pompous I know, but I can not express it otherwise. I canīt even tell you what a "real angler" is, although I know one when I meet him, and often donīt even need to meet him. One also learns a great deal oneself as well, either through study, copious reading ( also an abiding pleasure, and not just about angling of course),deep thought, research and conjecture, or experience. It is not at all difficult to learn a lot about something you love, indeed quite the reverse. Of course such an obsession precludes many other things, and one must accept this. I never found it a problem, and my wife, although by no means as enthusiastic as I was, did it as well, simply because she loved me at first, but after a very short time, she also enjoyed it immensely. She even tied a few flies now and again, presumably to see why I was so fascinated by it? I can not in all truth even begin to fathom her motivations in this regard, although we knew and loved each other so well that we were very nearly ( but unfortunately not quite) telepathic in many respects. Angling can indeed be "all things to all men". At least I believe so. For some it is merely a means of spending a pleasant sunny Saturday afternoon twice a year, having a beer, dangling their feet in the water, and watching a "bobber". Others fish in excess of a hundred days a year, intensively , with an incredible array of knowledge and equipment, constantly giving great thought to the matter ( as I did for a very long time), every day brings new revelations and pleasures, and a "kind of peace". My apologies, but my meagre powers of expression are dwarfed by the extent of the emotions and complexities involved. Of course one must think about it, all the time really, and to "outsiders", one may appear to be a completely obsessive nutcase. I was never much interested in doing things that pleased or impressed others, although of course I have done some of that as well, I was more interested in spending my time in what I thought to be a sensible and pleasurable manner, regardless of what others said, and often completely regardless of the consequences. Now even more so! I soent more than two thirds of my early life playing truant, and fishing. Would I advise anybody else to do this? Certainly not, but it was right for me, amd even if it was not, I did it anyway, and am now unable to change it. Oneīs greatest enemy is time, and of course eventually death. How am I going to spend the rest of my life? I donīt know, but I imagine that fishing and related subjects will once again play a large part in it, if for no other reason than that I basically have nothing else. I may be lucky, and meet another nice lady ( ridiculous expression "nice lady") but I am not banking on it. I might die tomorrow, or next week, or thirty or more years from now. Who knows? Whether angling as such, is intrinsically sensible or not, is quite another matter. I can not really explain to you why I do it, or why I love it. It is something you have to experience. Either you are an angler, or you are not. If you are, then you require no explanations, amd if you arenīt, there are none that will convince you, even assuming somebody wished to convince you in the first place! "Better than sex?". I think not, but there is little point in such comparisons. They may well both be instinctive drives, but angling is far more complex. Pleasure is also a relative thing. Do you want instant gratification, or do you prefer to savour things? One can not compare an orgasm with catching a fish, at least I donīt think so! Orgasms are also relative, it depends on where, and who with. Mostly in the mind I suppose, but the effects are nevertheless dramatic. With someone you love, it is almost a cataclysmic experience, or it may just be casual sex, where you might just as well have masturbated. God? I donīt know. I donīt believe in anything at all of such a nature. Humans are merely relatively advanced animals, some of whom are blessed with a modicum of intelligence, and when they die, then they simply die, just like any other animal. I donīt require any "spiritual" crutches, and am less than comfortable in the company of those who do, especialy those who feel obliged to tell me all about their "truths", although I have no objections to them beliveing whatever they like, as long as it does not materially damage anybody else. It would surprise me to learn that God had anything at all to do with fishing, or indeed anything else. I donīt consider fly-fishing ( and I donīt exclusively fly-fish anyway) to be a religion. Merely an intensely absorbing amd enjoyable pastime. Unfortunate that most people seem to spend very unhappy lives. They are discontented with just about everything. I never was. I can not abide liars and cheats, among a number of other things, but otherwise I am happy to live and let live. If I died at this instant, I would have no cause for complaint ( assuming I got the opportunity!:)) Whicb of course I consider unlikely in the extreme! :) Basically, it is impossible to know what an idiot thinks, unless you are an idiot, in which case it would do you no good anyway, although you might be less affected . It is equally impossible to know the motivations of others, indeed you may well not be able to know your own. This is part of the "human condition", and there is no help for it. My only real regrets in life, are that my wonderful wife died far too soon, and that I am still completely ignorant of so many wonderful things. I am nevertheless garteful that I was lucky enough to experience at least some of them. Lastly, it does not really matter what you fish with, the main purpose of the exercise is to enjoy yourself. What others think or say is immaterial. You are not the first to ask, and doubtless you will not be the last, but I really have no interest in publishing a book. Although at one time I did, doubtless blinded by my own perceived brilliance, or the unwarranted praise of others. Indeed, I have a couple finished, but writing, for me, is more or less the same compulsive disorder as fishing, and I rather doubt that I have anything new to say. I am not, and never was interested in earning money, as long as I can survive reasonably well, I am content. More money would not necessarily improve matters. There are already so many awful books on the market, and the number is increasing daily! Unless I could add to, or somehow consolidate or clarify existing knowledge, I can see no point in such an exercise. Apart from which, learning things on your own is very important. It is an integral part of the experience, and the resulting pleasure. Just doing what somebody else tells you to do is largely boring, however "successful" it might be. Success of course is also relative!:) Yes, the extract you quoted is indeed one of my more recent articles, you can find the original here; http://www.ruhrpott-flyfishers.de/fl...bindetisch.htm I speak four languages, but only feel really competent to write in two of them, (mainly in English of course ), but I have written a few in German, and a very few in French, although these have to be corrected by a native speaker! My wife spoke six , four fluently, something I was always envious of! Most interesting to hear such questions, but very difficult indeed to give any adequate answers. One is obliged to branch off into all sorts of conjecture and philosophy. I was extremyl lucky, in that I began angling at a very early age. Of course it is more difficult for someone of your age, but the virus is the same! You are more than welcome to visit, should you be in the area. Just drop me a mail. I can no longer offer any "exclusive" fishing on local waters, as I have resigned from nearly all the clubs I belonged to, mainly due to financial considerations, but that is also a rather odd thing, anglers donīt even really need either fish or water. A bottle of single malt is however more or less mandatory. Apart from which, we could be in Denmark from my place in about three hours! Best wishes, regards, and tight lines! Mike |
Rod costs
Imported rods are getting cheaper and better too, but Sage still can't
produce enough new $600+ Xi2 rods to meet the current demand. -- Bill Kiene Kiene's Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com "Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Some of you may find this interesting; http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml TL MC |
Rod costs
I would guess that nearly every shop carries at least one line of imported
rods. Redington is a good example. Temple forks are stirring a lot of interest. they are the rods that are selling in this downturn "Warren" wrote in message ... wrote... Imported rods are getting cheaper and better too, but Sage still can't produce enough new $600+ Xi2 rods to meet the current demand. Do you think that the brand name could be causing some of that? I would sooner trust a Sage than a unknown brand even though the unknown brand may cast and look just as good. Not being able to try the unknown brand or see them first hand causes me to have doubts and might sway me enough to spend the $600+ for the Sage. Do you see fly shops starting to carry more of these unknown rods in the future? -- Warren (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email) For Conclave Info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 12/26/2003 |
Rod costs
Warren wrote:
wrote... Imported rods are getting cheaper and better too, but Sage still can't produce enough new $600+ Xi2 rods to meet the current demand. Do you think that the brand name could be causing some of that? I would sooner trust a Sage than a unknown brand even though the unknown brand may cast and look just as good. Not being able to try the unknown brand or see them first hand causes me to have doubts and might sway me enough to spend the $600+ for the Sage. Do you see fly shops starting to carry more of these unknown rods in the future? I think the reason is that there are a LOT of people for whom $600+ for a rod is close to nothing. It's only two days of paying for a guide (minus tip). -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Rod costs
lid wrote...
I would guess that nearly every shop carries at least one line of imported rods. Redington is a good example. Temple forks are stirring a lot of interest. they are the rods that are selling in this downturn That trend doesn't seem to be very widespread up here yet. I know of one shop that carries Redington and another that carries St Croix. All the others have only high $ name brand rods. Not much of a selection for seven fly shops..... -- Warren (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email) For Conclave Info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html |
Rod costs
wrote...
I think the reason is that there are a LOT of people for whom $600+ for a rod is close to nothing. It's only two days of paying for a guide (minus tip). That's probably why most of the shops up here carry only name brand rods I guess. -- Warren (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email) For Conclave Info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html |
Rod costs
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:14:56 -0700, Warren wrote:
wrote... I would guess that nearly every shop carries at least one line of imported rods. Redington is a good example. Temple forks are stirring a lot of interest. they are the rods that are selling in this downturn That trend doesn't seem to be very widespread up here yet. I know of one shop that carries Redington and another that carries St Croix. All the others have only high $ name brand rods. Not much of a selection for seven fly shops..... -- Warren (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email) For Conclave Info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html Harumph!!! St.Croix rods are not imported. Unless you consider Wisconsin a foreign country (Jeff, stay out of this.). The only reason they cost less is because us Cheeseheads aren't afraid of doing a little work. g.c. |
Rod costs
That trend doesn't seem to be very widespread up here yet. I know of
one shop that carries Redington and another that carries St Croix. All the others have only high $ name brand rods. Not much of a selection for seven fly shops..... I agree Warren. Kind of strange up here in Big Sky Country. The shops keep saying how tough it is right now, but you ask them about TFO or Elkhorn, etc and they try and steer your right back to Sage, Scott, Winston, etc. Nothing wrong with those rods, but I don't understand why they don't try and compete with the Scheel's and other big name sporting goods stores that carry the less expensive rods. |
Rod costs
George Cleveland wrote: Harumph!!! St.Croix rods are not imported. Unless you consider Wisconsin a foreign country (Jeff, stay out of this.). The only reason they cost less is because us Cheeseheads aren't afraid of doing a little work. g.c. i love it! --wally |
Rod costs
wrote...
Harumph!!! St.Croix rods are not imported. Unless you consider Wisconsin a foreign country (Jeff, stay out of this.). The only reason they cost less is because us Cheeseheads aren't afraid of doing a little work. Wisconsin, foreign country....close enough. bseg -- Warren (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email) For Conclave Info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html |
Rod costs
Hi Warren,
We are selling imported TFO, Redington and Orvis rods now. The net effect for me and I imagine other fly shops is that we are finally selling rods to customers that would normally shop with Cabelas mail order or ecommerce. We have very nice import rods starting at $89 TFO in 2 pc and now $98 Orvis in 4 piece. This price point is making it easier for people to get into the sport or to try a different size outfit with out breaking the bank or getting divorced. When we sell fly tying thread for $1 a spool, who can say a $100 rod sale is going to be bad for my business????? The person that is going to buy the $100 rod was not thinking of buying a $600 rod when he came in the shop. We also sell lots of great mid-price US rods in the $300 range. I spent 10 years in the general fishing tackle business(1965-1975) before I opened my fly shop(1975) so all this price point stuff is standard retailing for me. Lots of anglers going on a $3000+ fishing trip will buy a high end Sage rod and then maybe a low end for a back up. I think that a trend will be that the big name US rod companies like Sage will have their low-medium priced rods made overseas (Redington connection) and then build their high end here. You are right about the "no name" rod companies. If you and I wanted to start a rod company, "Warren & Bill's Super Stiks", all we have to do is contact a rod factory in Korea, Taiwan or China and tell them what we want. This is happening. Anyone can do it with a little money. We have to be careful what rod companies we put in our shop because down the road, if the company is not here to warranty the rod, I have to make it good myself. This could get expensive. -- Bill Kiene Kiene's Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com "Warren" wrote in message ... wrote... Imported rods are getting cheaper and better too, but Sage still can't produce enough new $600+ Xi2 rods to meet the current demand. Do you think that the brand name could be causing some of that? I would sooner trust a Sage than a unknown brand even though the unknown brand may cast and look just as good. Not being able to try the unknown brand or see them first hand causes me to have doubts and might sway me enough to spend the $600+ for the Sage. Do you see fly shops starting to carry more of these unknown rods in the future? -- Warren (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email) For Conclave Info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html |
Rod costs
Because of the low-medium price market place that St.Croix (made in USA) is
in, they have probably been more negatively effected by the import rods than Sage. -- Bill Kiene Kiene's Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com "George Cleveland" wrote in message ... On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:14:56 -0700, Warren wrote: wrote... I would guess that nearly every shop carries at least one line of imported rods. Redington is a good example. Temple forks are stirring a lot of interest. they are the rods that are selling in this downturn That trend doesn't seem to be very widespread up here yet. I know of one shop that carries Redington and another that carries St Croix. All the others have only high $ name brand rods. Not much of a selection for seven fly shops..... -- Warren (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email) For Conclave Info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html Harumph!!! St.Croix rods are not imported. Unless you consider Wisconsin a foreign country (Jeff, stay out of this.). The only reason they cost less is because us Cheeseheads aren't afraid of doing a little work. g.c. |
Rod costs
Hi Walt,
I guess some people don't think they deserve a Sage XP rod with a Ross Evolution reel? Pretty smoken' stuff.................... -- Bill Kiene Kiene's Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com "walt winter" wrote in message ... Mike Connor wrote: Some of you may find this interesting; http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml TL MC thought provoking? pantload? who gives a ****? all i can say is that i'm happy as hell that my sage xp and ross evolution reel, loaded with sa wet-tip line backed with micron by cortland, performed flawlessly today with some bruisin cruisin catawbee imported german browns... ;-) happy new year all.... my first lovely of the year may well be talked about for many months... yeah baby! wally.... petah, the weemer is awesome but wally's blackie slayed 'em! |
Rod costs
Fly Fish America has an article on rods costing less than $300. They state
that nearly 2/3's of the rods sold will be in this group. Of course, every major manufacturer hs at least one entry. Hard to say which are made in the USA "Bill Kiene" wrote in message . .. Hi Warren, We are selling imported TFO, Redington and Orvis rods now. The net effect for me and I imagine other fly shops is that we are finally selling rods to customers that would normally shop with Cabelas mail order or ecommerce. We have very nice import rods starting at $89 TFO in 2 pc and now $98 Orvis in 4 piece. This price point is making it easier for people to get into the sport or to try a different size outfit with out breaking the bank or getting divorced. When we sell fly tying thread for $1 a spool, who can say a $100 rod sale is going to be bad for my business????? The person that is going to buy the $100 rod was not thinking of buying a $600 rod when he came in the shop. We also sell lots of great mid-price US rods in the $300 range. I spent 10 years in the general fishing tackle business(1965-1975) before I opened my fly shop(1975) so all this price point stuff is standard retailing for me. Lots of anglers going on a $3000+ fishing trip will buy a high end Sage rod and then maybe a low end for a back up. I think that a trend will be that the big name US rod companies like Sage will have their low-medium priced rods made overseas (Redington connection) and then build their high end here. You are right about the "no name" rod companies. If you and I wanted to start a rod company, "Warren & Bill's Super Stiks", all we have to do is contact a rod factory in Korea, Taiwan or China and tell them what we want. This is happening. Anyone can do it with a little money. We have to be careful what rod companies we put in our shop because down the road, if the company is not here to warranty the rod, I have to make it good myself. This could get expensive. -- Bill Kiene Kiene's Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com "Warren" wrote in message ... wrote... Imported rods are getting cheaper and better too, but Sage still can't produce enough new $600+ Xi2 rods to meet the current demand. Do you think that the brand name could be causing some of that? I would sooner trust a Sage than a unknown brand even though the unknown brand may cast and look just as good. Not being able to try the unknown brand or see them first hand causes me to have doubts and might sway me enough to spend the $600+ for the Sage. Do you see fly shops starting to carry more of these unknown rods in the future? -- Warren (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email) For Conclave Info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 12/26/2003 |
Rod costs
Bill states that anyone with a bit of money can get into the rod business.
In the recent article in Fly Fish America about rods costing less than $300, there are 42 companies listed that offer rods in this price range. Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods? Albright Biscayne Cam Sigler Castle Arms Falcon Gallatin Global Dorber March Brown North Fork Flies Rajeff Sports Rogue Rods Shelbyville Stone Creek Swede Industries Wof Creek Trading Wright & McGill This list doesn't include any of the British or European rod makers. I think that it is pretty safe to say, that some of these won't be around long, and what good is their warranty? I hope that a few have something special to offer besides price that will help them survive "Bill Kiene" wrote in message . .. Hi Warren, We are selling imported TFO, Redington and Orvis rods now. The net effect for me and I imagine other fly shops is that we are finally selling rods to customers that would normally shop with Cabelas mail order or ecommerce. We have very nice import rods starting at $89 TFO in 2 pc and now $98 Orvis in 4 piece. This price point is making it easier for people to get into the sport or to try a different size outfit with out breaking the bank or getting divorced. When we sell fly tying thread for $1 a spool, who can say a $100 rod sale is going to be bad for my business????? The person that is going to buy the $100 rod was not thinking of buying a $600 rod when he came in the shop. We also sell lots of great mid-price US rods in the $300 range. I spent 10 years in the general fishing tackle business(1965-1975) before I opened my fly shop(1975) so all this price point stuff is standard retailing for me. Lots of anglers going on a $3000+ fishing trip will buy a high end Sage rod and then maybe a low end for a back up. I think that a trend will be that the big name US rod companies like Sage will have their low-medium priced rods made overseas (Redington connection) and then build their high end here. You are right about the "no name" rod companies. If you and I wanted to start a rod company, "Warren & Bill's Super Stiks", all we have to do is contact a rod factory in Korea, Taiwan or China and tell them what we want. This is happening. Anyone can do it with a little money. We have to be careful what rod companies we put in our shop because down the road, if the company is not here to warranty the rod, I have to make it good myself. This could get expensive. -- Bill Kiene Kiene's Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com "Warren" wrote in message ... wrote... Imported rods are getting cheaper and better too, but Sage still can't produce enough new $600+ Xi2 rods to meet the current demand. Do you think that the brand name could be causing some of that? I would sooner trust a Sage than a unknown brand even though the unknown brand may cast and look just as good. Not being able to try the unknown brand or see them first hand causes me to have doubts and might sway me enough to spend the $600+ for the Sage. Do you see fly shops starting to carry more of these unknown rods in the future? -- Warren (use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email) For Conclave Info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.559 / Virus Database: 351 - Release Date: 1/8/2004 |
Rod costs
Greg Pavlov wrote:
"Sierra fisher" wrote: Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods? ... and Wright & McGill have been around for quite a while. ... Wright & McGill = Eagle Claw these days, right ? -- Ken Fortenberry |
Rod costs
One brother is still a consultant to Loomis, the other has a fly shop and
this line of rods "Greg Pavlov" wrote in message ... On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:39:15 -0800, "Sierra fisher" wrote: Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods? Falcon has been producing spinning/casting rods for at least 6 years. Global Dorber - a Canadian company - and Wright & McGill have been around for quite a while. Rajeff's brother works (worked ?) with Gary Loomis. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.559 / Virus Database: 351 - Release Date: 1/8/2004 |
Rod costs
"Sierra fisher" wrote in message
... Bill states that anyone with a bit of money can get into the rod business. In the recent article in Fly Fish America about rods costing less than $300, there are 42 companies listed that offer rods in this price range. Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods? Albright Biscayne Cam Sigler Castle Arms etc I (and many of my friends) own Castle Arms rods (sold under the name Heritage Rods). Very nice imported rods. The owner of Castle Arms (Phil Castleman) is a member of my TU Chapter. |
Rod costs
Sierra fisher wrote: Bill states that anyone with a bit of money can get into the rod business. In the recent article in Fly Fish America about rods costing less than $300, there are 42 companies listed that offer rods in this price range. Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods? Albright Biscayne Cam Sigler Castle Arms Falcon Gallatin Global Dorber March Brown North Fork Flies Rajeff Sports Rogue Rods Shelbyville Stone Creek Swede Industries Wof Creek Trading Wright & McGill With the decline in the fly fishing market, I'm surprised to see so many new rod companies. My guess is that they're all importing rods at a very cheap price and even on a rod retailing less than $300, their profit margin is very good. I also think that most won't last. Willi |
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