Ted Kennedy
 

Well, I suppose we can now expect about 5 days of round-the-clock homage to
the late Sen. Kennedy. Still, when one looks back, it was one heck of an odd
legacy.
The guy starts out as the little brother of a couple of heavy hitters, sort
of the kid the family expects nothing from. Then, just as he's thrust into
prominence, he commits a crime that should have landed him in jail for at
least a few years and gets off, essentially with a stern lecture. Then,
after finally giving up on the whole Presidential idea, he spends 30 years
in which he damn near mastered being a US Senator. I mean that in the
positive sense, as the man learned how to compromise, deal and cajole a very
clumsy mechanism towards many good ends. Even for those that don't agree
with his goals and outcomes, it must be admitted he was as good at making
that body work as anyone, possibly ever. Like I said, an odd course, and a
hard one to reckon, overall. Thoughts?
Tom

Ted Kennedy
 

Tom Littleton wrote:
Well, I suppose we can now expect about 5 days of round-the-clock homage to
the late Sen. Kennedy. ...

Ted Kennedy will be put in the ground on Saturday at Arlington National.
I hope the creeps and the wingnuts will have the decency to wait until
Saturday night to start their hatefest. But I kinda doubt it.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ted Kennedy
 

one more drunk off the road...fine by me.....

Ted Kennedy
 

"Teddy was thrown out of Harvard in 1951 for cheating"

"but the senator's carousing -- and testimony about him wandering
about the house in his shirttails and no pants"

"Kennedy drove his car off a bridge and into a pond on Chappaquiddick
Island, on Martha's Vineyard. Mary Jo Kopechne, a 28-year-old worker
with RFK's campaign, was found dead in the submerged car's back seat
10 hours later."

Nice legacy, Teddy...

Guess you didn't have it in you to stick around long enough to get
voted
out like the rest of your croonies will in 2010...

Ted Kennedy
 

On 2009-08-26 18:25:31 -0400, "Tom Littleton" said:

Well, I suppose we can now expect about 5 days of round-the-clock homage to
the late Sen. Kennedy.

Actually, we Massholes are not looking forward to TWO WEEKS of homage
to Teddy. When Cardinal Maderieros died a few years back, we had his
funeral on for ten days. Even the death of the Pope didn't match that
one.

I didn't like Ted (that goes without saying), but he did his job for
the Massholes who voted for him. Another Kennedy will take his senate
seat.

Dave

Ted Kennedy
 

HYPOCRITE:

(1) A person who engages in the same behaviors he condemns others
for.

(2) A person who professes certain ideals, but fails to live up to
them.

(3) A person who holds other people to higher standards than he holds
himself.

The only reliable product of an organized liberalism is a flock of
hypocrites who feel that only *their* hypocrisy is divinely
sanctioned.


Yup...that about sums up Ted Kennedy.


I know his death is sad for some, but I refuse to get all worked up
about it. To me, Ted Kennedy was simply a drunken, womanizing murderer
that used his last name to get out of much deserved prison time for
Chappaquiddick. The man defined absolute partisan hypocrisy.

The mere fact that he asked for a law to be changed to allow the
liberal governor to appoint a liberal to take his seat speaks volumes
about his character. His refusal to stand by the law HE helped to pass
which prevented the Republican governor (Romney) from getting that
same power some years back is simply gross.

Kennedy worked tirelessly to raise OUR taxes (the average American
pays about 10% of their income in taxes each year) while he only paid
about .04% of his income in taxes. He had tax shelters in Aruba and
accounts in the names of his family members to avoid paying so much of
his "hard earned" money in taxes. He didn't like paying taxes but
thought that all of us working class people should.

Teddy called him self an environmentalist, yet when a Cape Cod
windmill project threatened to obstruct his sail boating landscape he
tried to get a friend in the Army Corps of Engineers to "investigate"
the project--and find reasons to shoot it down. Too bad for him that
his friend's investigation only pointed out how successful and
positive the Cape Wind project would inevitably be. Again, it seems
that Ted Kennedy was only "green" when the cost or inconvenience
applied to us and not him.

Oh, and lets not forget that he was the guy that created the Obamacare
amendment that excluded members of Congress from the very government
run plan they would create. According to him, the public plan is good
enough for us, but not for him or his politician pals. Smart thinking
on his part I suppose, since a government run plan would surely not
have given him the top notch medical care that he got for the last
year. At his age they would have just offered him a blue pill...

To me, he typified exactly what I can't stand about Democrats. He is
the typical liberal that feels that they should get to play by a
different set of rules than anyone else. I can't support that kind of
blatant hypocrisy.

He was not a man of integrity, certainly not a man of honor and I for
one, will not be sobbing today and talking about "what a great man" he
was. See, what he and all the other liberals of his ilk never seem to
understand is that the TRUE equality that they claim to stand for will
only come when THEY start subjecting themselves to the same oppression
that they want us to suffer under.

What's good for the wealthy elitist geese should always be what's good
for the private sector gander...

Ted Kennedy
 

On 2009-08-26 18:36:09 -0400, Ken Fortenberry
said:

Tom Littleton wrote:
Well, I suppose we can now expect about 5 days of round-the-clock
homage to the late Sen. Kennedy. ...

Ted Kennedy will be put in the ground on Saturday at Arlington National.
I hope the creeps and the wingnuts will have the decency to wait until
Saturday night to start their hatefest. But I kinda doubt it.

I doubt there will be any "hatefest", unlike the one's I saw being
broken up at Arlington for KIA military.

Ted Kennedy
 

David LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry said:
Tom Littleton wrote:
Well, I suppose we can now expect about 5 days of round-the-clock
homage to the late Sen. Kennedy. ...

Ted Kennedy will be put in the ground on Saturday at Arlington National.
I hope the creeps and the wingnuts will have the decency to wait until
Saturday night to start their hatefest. But I kinda doubt it.

I doubt there will be any "hatefest", unlike the one's I saw being
broken up at Arlington for KIA military.

The hatefest has already started in the right-wing blogosphere and
on the Limbaugh show. I was talking about the creeps and wingnuts
of roff.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ted Kennedy
 

On 2009-08-26 19:12:02 -0400, Ken Fortenberry
said:

David LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry said:
Tom Littleton wrote:
Well, I suppose we can now expect about 5 days of round-the-clock
homage to the late Sen. Kennedy. ...

Ted Kennedy will be put in the ground on Saturday at Arlington National.
I hope the creeps and the wingnuts will have the decency to wait until
Saturday night to start their hatefest. But I kinda doubt it.

I doubt there will be any "hatefest", unlike the one's I saw being
broken up at Arlington for KIA military.

The hatefest has already started in the right-wing blogosphere and
on the Limbaugh show. I was talking about the creeps and wingnuts
of roff.

Well, since I do not follow any bogospheres, right, left, up or down,
nor listen to the Limbaugh show, and most of the wingnuts on roff are
anarchistic socialists, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Dave

Ted Kennedy
 

On 2009-08-26 19:07:15 -0400, "~^ beancounter ~^" said:

Yup...that about sums up Ted Kennedy.

Look around you. That just about sums up all of humanity, including
you, me, and Kennedy.

Ted Kennedy
 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:25:31 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote:

Well, I suppose we can now expect about 5 days of round-the-clock homage to
the late Sen. Kennedy. Still, when one looks back, it was one heck of an odd
legacy.
The guy starts out as the little brother of a couple of heavy hitters, sort
of the kid the family expects nothing from. Then, just as he's thrust into
prominence, he commits a crime that should have landed him in jail for at
least a few years and gets off, essentially with a stern lecture. Then,
after finally giving up on the whole Presidential idea, he spends 30 years
in which he damn near mastered being a US Senator. I mean that in the
positive sense, as the man learned how to compromise, deal and cajole a very
clumsy mechanism towards many good ends. Even for those that don't agree
with his goals and outcomes, it must be admitted he was as good at making
that body work as anyone, possibly ever. Like I said, an odd course, and a
hard one to reckon, overall.


Thoughts?
Tom

Yes - the only good Kennedy is a Dead Kennedy...

Seriously, he was a piece of **** when breathing, and now, he's dead - that's
life...his death doesn't change my opinion of him. And no, I didn't and don't
"hate" him - I'm not sure that I "hate" anyone, but I think that if I were going
to "hate" someone, it'd be a better man than he. And I'm not sure why, but it
reminds me of something my father once told me about the Klan. He thought they
were a bunch of silly-ass pussies, aside from being racist crackers, and the
reason was, he said, was that if you're going to "hate" someone, at least have
the stones to stand up like a man, open and in the daylight, for all to see, and
make it plain.

There are my (off-hand) thoughts,
R

Ted Kennedy
 

Ted Kennedy
 

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
...
"Teddy was thrown out of Harvard in 1951 for cheating"

"but the senator's carousing -- and testimony about him wandering
about the house in his shirttails and no pants"

"Kennedy drove his car off a bridge and into a pond on Chappaquiddick
Island, on Martha's Vineyard. Mary Jo Kopechne, a 28-year-old worker
with RFK's campaign, was found dead in the submerged car's back seat
10 hours later."

Nice legacy, Teddy...

Guess you didn't have it in you to stick around long enough to get
voted
out like the rest of your croonies will in 2010...



A surprisingly astute observation from someone who has never, ever f**ked
up.

John... there but for the grace of god...

Ted Kennedy
 

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
...


HYPOCRITE:

(1) A person who engages in the same behaviors he condemns others
for.

(2) A person who professes certain ideals, but fails to live up to
them.

(3) A person who holds other people to higher standards than he holds
himself.




and your point being????


John...

Ted Kennedy
 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:08:21 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
"Tom Littleton" wrote:
snip
Thoughts?

Yes - the only good Kennedy is a Dead Kennedy...

Seriously, he was a piece of **** when breathing, and now, he's dead - that's
life...his death doesn't change my opinion of him. ...

The Daily Double has spoken. Rick is both roff's own creep and
wingnut.

Seriously Rick, you're a despicable piece of ****.

Maybe, maybe not, but either way, it is of no bearing on Teddy Kennedy being a
piece of ****. And for the record, my disgust with him has nothing to do with
his politics, but rather, the way he conducted himself in his "personal life,"
and encouraged family members to conduct themselves in theirs. For example,
William Smith was _probably_ innocent of rape, but literally under his uncle's
influence, he found himself in trouble.

HTH,
R

Ted Kennedy
 

Tom Littleton wrote:
Well, I suppose we can now expect about 5 days of round-the-clock homage to
the late Sen. Kennedy. Still, when one looks back, it was one heck of an odd
legacy. ...

George Will's column in today's _Washington Post_ is a good read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082602209.html

"He lived his own large life and the ledger of it shows a substantial
positive balance."

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ted Kennedy
 

wrote:
"Tom Littleton" wrote:
snip
Thoughts?

Seriously, he was a piece of **** when breathing, and now, he's dead -
that's
life...his death doesn't change my opinion of him.
-------

Holy ****! I agree w this guy!!!!????

I met Ted once at a resort sap in New England
He looked like an old blousy boozer
You could tell by the red veins on the end of his nose that he drank - A LOT

As for being a wing nut - Yes it is true - I have been accused of this
before

As for being an anarchistic socialist - perhaops but only short term
We will need a period of anarchy if this is truly to be a govt of and for
the people and not a government controlled by a few select families or the
dreaded miltary industrial complex that has come to fruition
It would be wonderful if the US was not based on a wartime economy
It would be wonderful if we did not support and maintain reactionary and
terrorist regimes like the Suadi and Kuwaiti monarchies, -
and Yes - including Israel and some others

Enough of my soap box type remarks

I will not miss Teddy
I do not miss any of the Kennedy clan -

Frantz Fanon

Ted Kennedy
 

you mean this guy?

1. He was caught cheating at Harvard when he attended it. He was
expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a
classmate to cheat for him.

2. While expelled, Kennedy enlisted in the Army, but mistakenly signed
up for four years instead of two. Oops! The man can't count to four!
His father, Joseph P. Kennedy, former U.S. Ambassador to England (a
step up from bootlegging liquor into the US from Canada during
prohibition), pulled the necessary strings to have his enlistment
shortened to two years, and to ensure that he served in Europe, not
Korea , where a war was raging. No preferential treatment for him!
(like he charged that President Bush received).

3. Kennedy was assigned to Paris , never advanced beyond the rank of
Private, and returned to Harvard upon being discharged.. Imagine a
person of his "education" NEVER advancing past the rank of Private!

4. While attending law school at the University of Virginia , he was
cited for reckless driving four times, including once when he was
clocked driving 90 miles per hour in a residential neighborhood with
his headlights off after dark. Yet his Virginia driver's license was
never revoked. Coincidentally, he passed the bar exam in 1959.
Amazing!

5. In 1964, he was seriously injured in a plane crash, and
hospitalized for several months. Test results done by the hospital at
the time he was admitted had shown he was legally intoxicated. The
results of those tests remained a "state secret" until in the 1980's
when the report was unsealed. Didn't hear about that from the unbiased
media, did we?

6. On July 19, 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island
in Massachusetts . At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur's keys
to his Oldsmobile limousine, and offered to give a ride home to Mary
Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge
with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped,
and into Poucha Pond.

7. He swam to shore and walked back to the party, passing several
houses and a fire station. Two friends then returned with him to the
scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told
him what he already knew - that he was required by law to immediately
report the accident to the authorities. Instead Kennedy made his way
to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep. Kennedy called the
police the next morning and by then the wreck had already been
discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered
floor above her head in the upside-down car.

The Kennedy family began "calling in favors", ensuring that any
inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her
family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are
uncertain, but after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove
under the water trying to rescue Kopechne and he didn't call police
because he was in a state of shock. It is widely assumed Kennedy was
drunk, and he held off calling police in hopes that his family could
fix the problem overnight. Since the accident, Kennedy's "political
enemies" have referred to him as the distinguished Senator from
Chappaquiddick. He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident,
and was given a SUSPENDED SENTENCE OF TWO MONTHS. Kopechne's family
received a small payout from the Kennedy's insurance policy, and never
sued. There was later an effort to have her body exhumed and
autopsied, but her family successfully fought against this in court,
and Kennedy's family paid their attorney's bills... a "token of
friendship"?

8. Kennedy has held his Senate seat for more than forty years, but
considering his longevity, his accomplishments seem scant. He authored
or argued for legislation that ensured a variety of civil rights,
increased the minimum wage in 1981, made access to health care easier
for the indigent, and funded Meals on Wheels for fixed-income seniors
and is widely held as the "standard-bearer for liberalism". In his
very first Senate roll, he was the floor manager for the bill that
turned U.S. immigration policy upside down and opened the floodgate
for immigrants from third world countries.

9. Since that time, he has been the prime instigator and author of
every expansion of an increase in immigration, up to and including the
latest attempt to grant amnesty to illegal aliens. Not to mention the
pious grilling he gave the last two Supreme Court nominees, as if he
was the standard bearer for the nation in matters of "what's right".
What a pompous ass!

10. He is known around Washington as a public drunk, loud, boisterous
and very disrespectful to ladies. JERK is a better description than
"great American". "A blonde in every pond" is his motto.

Ted Kennedy
 

Ted Kennedy
 

On Aug 27, 11:42*am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
wrote:
you mean this guy?
snip

Another hatemongering wingnut creep heard from. And this one's
a plagiarizer not to mention a sorry excuse for a human being.

Thanks a lot, Tom. You've managed to entice some of the vermin
to crawl out of the woodwork.

What this place needs is another rod loading thread. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Thanks Ken, Nice to be thought of

John

Ted Kennedy
 

Ted Kennedy
 

Look, liberals, here is the bottom line – keep goosestepping towards
the cliff while Conservatives let you think you’re in charge. This
fight is slowly but surely escalating and will undoubtedly boil over
into violence that none of us want in the not-so-distant future unless
cooler heads prevail.

Who do you think would be best positioned for victory in a
conventional confrontation over ideals? You have Bawney Fwank and
ACORN, we have millions of guns and a mostly-Conservative military. Do
yourselves a favor, actually read the full Constitution. Learn in
painful detail what our forefathers experienced and why they made
those key decisions that gave birth to our nation.

Stop blindly believing what politicians and networks tell you to
believe and use some common sense. Do you want a nation where you are
reliant on the government for everything…or would you rather rely on
yourselves and your fellow citizens? If our society becomes government-
controlled and one day you decided that you were wrong and didn’t like
the situation…where would you go? What other nation on earth would
give you the same freedoms we have right now? With those freedoms
comes responsibility, so please think about your values and the
decisions you make. A solid majority of Americans do not want the
government takeover that is slowly being forced upon us, sooner or
later something has to give.

Ted Kennedy
 

On Aug 27, 1:16*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
wrote:
you mean this guy?
snip
Another hatemongering wingnut creep heard from. And this one's
a plagiarizer not to mention a sorry excuse for a human being.

Thanks a lot, Tom. You've managed to entice some of the vermin
to crawl out of the woodwork.

What this place needs is another rod loading thread. ;-)

Thanks Ken, Nice to be thought of

Well, like most people I don't think of the cockroaches in the
wall until I see them scurrying across the floor. And you're
quite welcome.

--
Ken Fortenberry

In relatively short order, Ted Kennedy lost 3 brothers and soon
thereafter, not surprisingly made a horrible decision as a very young
man. I did not agree with many of Kennedy's positions, but it is good
enough for me to know that some of his closest friends were
conservative Republicans like Orin Hatch. I cannot say with a clear
conscious that had I lost one brother in a war and 2 to
assassinations, all within 15 or 20 years (two within 5 or 6 years of
his fateful mistake) I would not have a drinking problem.

I have ALWAYS been a conservative and my values still lead me in this
direction. But when I hear the lack of decency displayed in so short
an order after his death (combined with observing the uncivil behavior
of the right in other venues such as the health care debate and recent
elections), I am sickened. It causes me to wonder where the decent
folks of this line of thinking have gone.

I am sure the zealots who find it necessary to deliberate on Kennedy's
weaknesses, mistakes, and vices could improve their lives greatly by
modeling their behavior after Ronald Reagan who considered Ted Kennedy
to be a friend. Reagan had a sunny disposition, and drew even those
not prone to favor the conservative cause to be far more willing to
work with him and not against. He would not have condoned the
rhetoric on this thread I am certain. Where is our Reagan and why
have conservatives lost their way in following his example?

Ted Kennedy
 

well, I warned you, Keng.......

Anyhow, I am probably in agreement with Family-Outdoors(by the way, a name
would be nice, F-O.). I figured on a few demonstrations of blind ideology
overtaking any nuance or sense of dignity. The whole of the man's life is a
bizarre picture, but maybe Will is correct that the ledger tilts to the
positive. I don't know.
Rick speaks of conduct the man apparently got behind himself 10 years or so
ago. Certainly, he benefitted from undue priviledge in the handling of his
causing the death of another. Yet, politically, he became very savvy and a
positive legislative influence. He stuck to certain principles in his
legislative agenda with consistency. Time will tell where the verdict falls.
Tom

Ted Kennedy
 

On Aug 27, 4:47*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
well, I warned you, Keng.......

Anyhow, I am probably in agreement with Family-Outdoors(by the way, a name
would be nice, F-O.). I figured on a few demonstrations of blind ideology
overtaking any nuance or sense of dignity. The whole of the man's life is a
bizarre picture, but maybe Will is correct that the ledger tilts to the
positive. I don't know.
Rick speaks of conduct the man apparently got behind himself 10 years or so
ago. Certainly, he benefitted from undue priviledge in the handling of his
causing the death of another. Yet, politically, he became very savvy and a
positive legislative influence. He stuck to certain principles in his
legislative agenda with consistency. Time will tell where the verdict falls.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Tom

Agree in total...
Family-Outdoors (Probably not F-O:) aka Allen Mann

Ted Kennedy
 

wrote in message
...
And for the record, my disgust with him has nothing to do with
his politics, but rather, the way he conducted himself in his "personal
life,"
and encouraged family members to conduct themselves in theirs. For
example,
William Smith was _probably_ innocent of rape, but literally under his
uncle's
influence, he found himself in trouble.

yet, you write about his "hiding his true persona" in a way akin to a
Klansman in a robe. Where the hell does that analogy come into play??
Really, if you are suggesting that he masked his foibles from the public,
that doesn't wash. Probably very few people in the history of the planet
have been scrutinized, for longer, than the Kennedy clan. If someone out
there didn't know of Ted's moral shortcomings, they have been in a cave or
something. So, what exactly makes the late Senator a 'pussy', hiding his
true self or purpose? I don't get it.
Now, that said, I never quite understood the Kennedy Worship that one sees
in eastern Massachusetts. It's sort of creepy, and the whole dynasty concept
gives me the willies. MA residents: is it a given that another Sen.Kennedy
will succeed the late Teddy?
Tom

Ted Kennedy
 

On 2009-08-27 17:53:27 -0400, "Tom Littleton" said:

MA residents: is it a given that another Sen.Kennedy
will succeed the late Teddy?

Probably. The Kenndy name wins in for Massholes. There was a guy in
Lowell who could not get elected, couldn't even win in the primaries.
He legally changed his name to Kennedy and won a local election -
nothing big, mind you, but the name won him a seat in some small school
committee or council.

With all the warts Ted had - Chappiquidick, the Florida trial of his
nephew where it came out that he took them out drinking, knowing that
they had prolems with the sauce, his drunken binge with Dodd in a DC
restaurant, his cheating in college, his driving record, his trouble
with alchohol, his fat homely face with all the gin blosooms - he still
got elected and served his people well. I certainly won't miss him
like I did his brothers, and anyone replacing him in the Senate will
only be a pretender to the Kennedy Thrown.

Now, one must admit that if poor Teddy was a Republican his **** would
really, REALLY, stink. But because he is a liberal Dem, even his farts
are odorless.

Dave

Ted Kennedy
 

Family-Outdoors wrote:
On Aug 27, 1:16 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
wrote:
you mean this guy?
snip
Another hatemongering wingnut creep heard from. And this one's
a plagiarizer not to mention a sorry excuse for a human being.
Thanks a lot, Tom. You've managed to entice some of the vermin
to crawl out of the woodwork.
What this place needs is another rod loading thread. ;-)
Thanks Ken, Nice to be thought of
Well, like most people I don't think of the cockroaches in the
wall until I see them scurrying across the floor. And you're
quite welcome.

--
Ken Fortenberry

In relatively short order, Ted Kennedy lost 3 brothers and soon
thereafter, not surprisingly made a horrible decision as a very young
man. I did not agree with many of Kennedy's positions, but it is good
enough for me to know that some of his closest friends were
conservative Republicans like Orin Hatch.

That relationship always seemed odd to me. Maybe says a lot about both men.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26482.html


Russell

Ted Kennedy
 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:53:27 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
And for the record, my disgust with him has nothing to do with
his politics, but rather, the way he conducted himself in his "personal
life,"
and encouraged family members to conduct themselves in theirs. For
example,
William Smith was _probably_ innocent of rape, but literally under his
uncle's
influence, he found himself in trouble.

yet, you write about his "hiding his true persona" in a way akin to a
Klansman in a robe.

I did? What I said was that my father didn't like the Klan because they did
"hate" but hid and that if one is going to "hate" someone (I didn't and don't
"hate" Ted, but someone - Ken? - used the term - I prefer to say "dislike"),
have the guts to do it in the open. I've never made a secret of my dislike for
Ted (and his brothers, father, as well as several other Kennedys), and so, I
feel no reason to hide my feelings now that Ted is dead anymore than I have for
the also-deceased John, Robert, Joe., etc.

Where the hell does that analogy come into play??

See above.

Really, if you are suggesting that he masked his foibles from the public,
that doesn't wash.

OK by me...I wasn't even hinting at that...and while I didn't mean that in my
earlier response to your question, I will say that a lot of his "foibles" were
hidden from "the public" in general. I'm not claiming to have some "secret"
knowledge, but I can tell you that a lot of his ****-ups weren't widely
reported.

TC,
R

Probably very few people in the history of the planet
have been scrutinized, for longer, than the Kennedy clan. If someone out
there didn't know of Ted's moral shortcomings, they have been in a cave or
something. So, what exactly makes the late Senator a 'pussy', hiding his
true self or purpose? I don't get it.
Now, that said, I never quite understood the Kennedy Worship that one sees
in eastern Massachusetts. It's sort of creepy, and the whole dynasty concept
gives me the willies. MA residents: is it a given that another Sen.Kennedy
will succeed the late Teddy?
Tom

Ted Kennedy
 

In message 2009082718220916807-dplacourse@aolcom, David LaCourse
writes
On 2009-08-27 17:53:27 -0400, "Tom Littleton" said:

MA residents: is it a given that another Sen.Kennedy
will succeed the late Teddy?

Probably. The Kenndy name wins in for Massholes. There was a guy in
Lowell who could not get elected, couldn't even win in the primaries.
He legally changed his name to Kennedy and won a local election -
nothing big, mind you, but the name won him a seat in some small school
committee or council.

With all the warts Ted had - Chappiquidick, the Florida trial of his
nephew where it came out that he took them out drinking, knowing that
they had prolems with the sauce, his drunken binge with Dodd in a DC
restaurant, his cheating in college, his driving record, his trouble
with alchohol, his fat homely face with all the gin blosooms - he still
got elected and served his people well. I certainly won't miss him
like I did his brothers, and anyone replacing him in the Senate will
only be a pretender to the Kennedy Thrown.

Now, one must admit that if poor Teddy was a Republican his **** would
really, REALLY, stink. But because he is a liberal Dem, even his farts
are odorless.

Dave



Apart from the /really/ high profile Kennedy's I can only think of
Chappiquidick when it comes to Ted !
--
Bill Grey

Ted Kennedy
 

"David LaCourse" wrote in message
news:2009082718220916807-dplacourse@aolcom...
the Kennedy Thrown.



on some level, priceless.
Tom

Ted Kennedy
 

wrote in message
...
What I said was that my father didn't like the Klan because they did
"hate" but hid and that if one is going to "hate" someone (I didn't and
don't
"hate" Ted, but someone - Ken? - used the term - I prefer to say
"dislike"),
have the guts to do it in the open.

that makes some sense.....I didn't read it that way the first time through.
Perhaps, that explains Ken's response to you.
Tom

Ted Kennedy
 

On 2009-08-28 05:32:06 -0400, "Tom Littleton" said:

on some level, priceless.

Yeah. Like there, they're, and their.

Ted Kennedy
 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:28:00 -0700 (PDT), Family-Outdoors
wrote:

On Aug 27, 1:16*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
wrote:
you mean this guy?
snip
Another hatemongering wingnut creep heard from. And this one's
a plagiarizer not to mention a sorry excuse for a human being.

Thanks a lot, Tom. You've managed to entice some of the vermin
to crawl out of the woodwork.

What this place needs is another rod loading thread. ;-)

Thanks Ken, Nice to be thought of

Well, like most people I don't think of the cockroaches in the
wall until I see them scurrying across the floor. And you're
quite welcome.

--
Ken Fortenberry

In relatively short order, Ted Kennedy lost 3 brothers and soon
thereafter, not surprisingly made a horrible decision as a very young
man.

By the time he started making "horrible decisions," as a "young man," he had
only lost one brother, and that, in WW2. I'd offer that such a status for a
person born in 1933 (esp. into a Catholic family) was hardly unusual, and IAC,
it was not an excuse for anything he did.

I did not agree with many of Kennedy's positions, but it is good
enough for me to know that some of his closest friends were
conservative Republicans like Orin Hatch.

I think you are confusing DC-style "friends" with "real world" _friends_.

I cannot say with a clear
conscious that had I lost one brother in a war and 2 to
assassinations, all within 15 or 20 years (two within 5 or 6 years of
his fateful mistake) I would not have a drinking problem.

That is a potential flaw in your character (and no, I'm not saying that your
character is flawed, only that your response to your own situation speaks only
to you, not Ted). Again, he was demonstrating that he was nothing but a drunken
amoral piece of ****, just as he was raised to be, long before (like 13-15 years
before) 1963 - he wasn't 12, he was 30, out of college, married (and cheating),
had been in the Army, etc.

I have ALWAYS been a conservative and my values still lead me in this
direction. But when I hear the lack of decency displayed in so short
an order after his death (combined with observing the uncivil behavior
of the right in other venues such as the health care debate and recent
elections), I am sickened. It causes me to wonder where the decent
folks of this line of thinking have gone.

I am sure the zealots who find it necessary to deliberate on Kennedy's
weaknesses, mistakes, and vices could improve their lives greatly by
modeling their behavior after Ronald Reagan who considered Ted Kennedy
to be a friend. Reagan had a sunny disposition, and drew even those
not prone to favor the conservative cause to be far more willing to
work with him and not against. He would not have condoned the
rhetoric on this thread I am certain. Where is our Reagan and why
have conservatives lost their way in following his example?

And not only am I personally not purely "conservative," I have many _friends_
(including, by the way, both Forty and Tom) that lean to varying degrees to the
left. I have a great deal of respect for folks like Bill Bradley and Barney
Frank, with who I don't agree on much. I would have no more respect for Ted (or
John or Robert or Joe, etc.) if they had shared exactly my personal politics
because my dislike and lack of respect for them had little or nothing to do with
their politics.

HTH,
R

Ted Kennedy
 

Tom Littleton wrote:

that makes some sense.....I didn't read it that way the first time through.
Perhaps, that explains Ken's response to you.
Tom



i know i'm naive and grossly under-informed/-educated. still, i'm always
amused and bothered by crystal-clear pronouncements concerning the
foibles, frailties, failings, faults, and follies of others, including
our famous kennedy klan, despite the lack of any in-depth, direct or
personal interaction them. as our welsh friend's statement suggests,
these pronouncements are frequently based in a myopic vision...a vision
shaped by one's overarching predispositions. we simply seek and select
the data that supports our need to go on believing what we have already
chosen to believe...not scientific, no alternative hypotheses, but very,
very human...and one of our human failings.

though ted kennedy undoubtedly had many qualities and behaviors that
justified criticism of him personally and politically, i'm willing to
accept he had a side and other qualities that equally justified the
admiration and respect many had for him. each side can find something to
anchor and illustrate their conflicting views.

even drunks are capable of good works and truth-telling. in any event,
ted's dead. whatever his flaws, they are at an end forever. whatever his
individual promise, it will be unfulfilled forever.

jeff

Ted Kennedy
 

On Aug 27, 5:51*pm, Family-Outdoors wrote:
On Aug 27, 4:47*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:

well, I warned you, Keng.......


Rick speaks of conduct the man apparently got behind himself 10 years or so
ago. Certainly, he benefitted from undue priviledge in the handling of his
causing the death of another. Yet, politically, he became very savvy and a
positive legislative influence. He stuck to certain principles in his
legislative agenda with consistency. Time will tell where the verdict falls.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Tom

Joe the Elder offers- hate to hear of anyones death--but at least it
got that monkey in a bright outfit jumping around and grabbing his
crotch off the scene for awhile !

Ted Kennedy
 

I of course was referring to Chappaquiddick, and that if I am not
mistaken occurred in 1969...therefore what I stated was true. Look, I
am not going to debate with you on this. You are simply making a
choice to disparage someone, within almost hours of his death, that
the mainstream of thought in America is willing to accept the man in
total... The mainstream of American thought is that as the man
matured he did do what he felt was right and championed a cause. The
means and perhaps even the ends with respect to the cause, I do not
necessarily agree with. I am not certain.

I do know that it is reported that just prior to his death, in the
presence of his priest, he conveyed his comfort in knowing that he
would be soon in the presence of his siblings and particularly his
brothers. It sounds to me like he had made peace in his own mind with
mistakes I know he knew he had made, and that he believed that the
next stage of his journey was secured. My judgement or yours (so I
believe anyway) is irrelevant.

Finally, all I stated was that I did not know how I would stand up to
the devastation of the losses he suffered. By the grace of God I have
been blessed not to experience such tragedy in my life. If you have,
and you know with certainty that you'd buck up under that load, I
salute you. If you have not suffered such loss, and I sincerely hope
you have not, I suggest that you are a fool for your assertion that it
may be a negative reflection on my character.

Ted Kennedy
 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Family-Outdoors
wrote:

I of course was referring to Chappaquiddick,

Why "of course?" Joe, Jr. died in WW2, John in 1963, and Ted was not "a very
young man," he was about middle-aged (he was 36/37) in 1969. And he had made
scores of "horrible decisions" by that point, although granted, AFAIK, he had
not yet let a young woman who he was fooling around with drown in a Ford, at the
Vineyard, previous to that. He had, however, had a fair number of close calls
while driving drunk, and a fair number of those occurred prior to John's death,
so blaming his, um, issues on, or excusing them by, the death of his 3 brothers
doesn't wash,

and that if I am not
mistaken occurred in 1969...therefore what I stated was true. Look, I
am not going to debate with you on this. You are simply making a
choice to disparage someone, within almost hours of his death,

Er, no, I didn't. I made an admittedly dark joke - if you didn't know, "The
Dead Kennedys" were a famous punk band, insofar as punk bands go, and then, I
simply responded to Tom's question. I said that, as many here already know, I
didn't like him in life and his dying did nothing to change my opinion of him. I
didn't mention a single thing that he did/didn't do/whatever in my original
reply, I simply referred to him _exactly_ as I have for 12-13 years on ROFF.

that
the mainstream of thought in America is willing to accept the man in
total... The mainstream of American thought is that as the man
matured he did do what he felt was right and championed a cause.

"The mainstream of American thought?" Uh-huh...

The
means and perhaps even the ends with respect to the cause, I do not
necessarily agree with. I am not certain.

I do know that it is reported that just prior to his death, in the
presence of his priest, he conveyed his comfort in knowing that he
would be soon in the presence of his siblings and particularly his
brothers. It sounds to me like he had made peace in his own mind with
mistakes I know he knew he had made, and that he believed that the
next stage of his journey was secured.

No, he was being a typical Kennedy - as full of **** as a whole flock of
Christmas geese. Many of the Kennedys have found God more times each than a
stadium full of Pentecostals...

My judgement or yours (so I believe anyway) is irrelevant.

I have spent more time then I wished around Kennedys and their "friends" (a fair
amount of time), grew up and spent a fair amount of my adult life in Palm Beach,
spent time on Martha's Vineyard and have a number of friends who have done
similarly, including several that also have family homes there. I mean this as
a straightforward question: "what personal insight do you have into the
Kennedys?"

Finally, all I stated was that I did not know how I would stand up to
the devastation of the losses he suffered. By the grace of God I have
been blessed not to experience such tragedy in my life. If you have,
and you know with certainty that you'd buck up under that load, I
salute you.

Like most folks, I've had tragedy in my life. I have no interest in getting
into a "who's tragedy is more tragic" contest and even if I did, folks who have
suffered well beyond what Ted, I, and apparently, you, have combined have not
acted as Ted did nor have they used that suffering as an excuse. In fact, many
have taken, if you pardon the pun, a licking and kept on ticking.

If you have not suffered such loss, and I sincerely hope
you have not, I suggest that you are a fool for your assertion that it
may be a negative reflection on my character.

Well, let me not suggest, but state it plain - if you were to have a drinking
problem, it would be your problem, and blaming it on outside forces would be a
flaw in your character. If you think Ted's actions are justified by the death
of his brothers, or actions such as Ted's are justified or excused by tragedy,
that too is a flaw in your character.

And there you are,
R

Ted Kennedy
 

**** happens and life goes on. I am the last of my generation. I have
lost a brother and sister, both suddenly. I did not try to get a
marriage annuled after more than 25 years of marriage, and by so doing,
making my offspring legally *******s. Nor did I kill anyone, make
havoc in a bar with Dodd, or go on a drunken spree that has lasted ever
so long. Ted Kennedy is the weakest of the three brothers (I do not
include Joe because Ted did no know him). I am sorry for his death,
but I certainly will not miss his lies and hypocrisy. Richard was
correct in his admonition of the man. Some will think him a saint; I
look upon him as a joke, dead or alive.

Dave

Ted Kennedy
 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:57:01 -0400, David LaCourse wrote:

**** happens and life goes on. I am the last of my generation. I have
lost a brother and sister, both suddenly. I did not try to get a
marriage annuled after more than 25 years of marriage, and by so doing,
making my offspring legally *******s. Nor did I kill anyone, make
havoc in a bar with Dodd, or go on a drunken spree that has lasted ever
so long. Ted Kennedy is the weakest of the three brothers (I do not
include Joe because Ted did no know him). I am sorry for his death,
but I certainly will not miss his lies and hypocrisy. Richard was
correct in his admonition of the man. Some will think him a saint; I
look upon him as a joke, dead or alive.

Richard did not "admonish" him - no definition of which he is aware would fit
his opinion of Ted - he called him a piece of ****, and he stands by it.

R

Dave