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Garlic and brining?
Hi All,
A friend of mine says he loves Garlic on his trout. I would rather not waste a pan of good trout trying this out. Any one have an comments? Also, would you bother brining them? Many thanks, -T My typical recipe: olive oil, butter, rosemary, salt, pepper |
Garlic and brining?
"Todd" wrote in message ...
A friend of mine says he loves Garlic on his trout. I would rather not waste a pan of good trout trying this out. Any one have an comments? Also, would you bother brining them? . . . My typical recipe: olive oil, butter, rosemary, salt, pepper 1. You can try garlic in other forms, e.g. garlic bread, garlic in spaghetti sauce, and thus decide whether you want to try it on trout. The main question is whether you want to taste trout (enhanced by being rubbed beforehand with garlic) or trout and garllic (two flavours combined.) 2. Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). Before other cooking methods, it seems likely to make the food too salty. Why both olive oil and butter? (I prefer bacon fat to either for pan-fried trout, but fry eggs etc. in OO rather than butter.) -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
Garlic and brining?
On 7-Sep-2009, "Don Phillipson" wrote: Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). Before I make a nice mild brine and smoke my trout 3-6 hrs Lemon and garlic in various forms are essentail ingredients I will sometimes use a little soy sauce as a partial salt substitute I have a sceret recipe for smoking including some whiskey Its a big hit! We also cook w olive oil - We can try to replace the fat comtent w olive oil but sometimes its worth it to add a little butter just for flavoring I would like to know more anout cold smoing Can you elaborate a bit - ? I tried it w some sockeye salmon (lox) but then I was afraid it would be undercooked or smoked so I smoked them as normal a for a litte less time I would like to know more about and have more confidence in cold smokimg? Fred |
Garlic and brining?
On Sep 7, 4:24*pm, "Fred" wrote:
On *7-Sep-2009, "Don Phillipson" wrote: Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). *Before I make a nice mild brine and smoke my trout 3-6 hrs Lemon and garlic in various forms are essentail ingredients Brining may be a prerequisite and lemon and garlic may be essential ingredients......to suit some palates, but none of the above is needed for any practical reasons. While there are virtually infinite delicious methods and ingredients and recipes for preparing trout, none of them is necessary for any reasons other than suiting individual tastes. Personally, I prefer smoking to all other methods for trout.....and I like simplest best. Just trout and warm hickory smoke for an hour or so. g. |
Garlic and brining?
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 11:22:26 -0700, Todd wrote:
Hi All, A friend of mine says he loves Garlic on his trout. I would rather not waste a pan of good trout trying this out. Any one have an comments? UM, OK - I like garlic, lots in/on some things, a little on others, and none on some things. I don't know if you like garlic or in what amount you might like it and on what. I think a little garlic on all but the mildest of fish dishes can be good, but you might not. Also, would you bother brining them? It would depend on the "cooking" method. With a simple and quick pan-saute in some form of fat, brining isn't necessary nor will it help an appreciable amount. Many thanks, -T My typical recipe: olive oil, butter, rosemary, salt, pepper HTH, R |
Garlic and brining?
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:03:06 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote: "Todd" wrote in message ... A friend of mine says he loves Garlic on his trout. I would rather not waste a pan of good trout trying this out. Any one have an comments? Also, would you bother brining them? . . . My typical recipe: olive oil, butter, rosemary, salt, pepper 1. You can try garlic in other forms, e.g. garlic bread, garlic in spaghetti sauce, and thus decide whether you want to try it on trout. The main question is whether you want to taste trout (enhanced by being rubbed beforehand with garlic) or trout and garllic (two flavours combined.) 2. Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). Before other cooking methods, it seems likely to make the food too salty. Why both olive oil and butter? (I prefer bacon fat to either for pan-fried trout, but fry eggs etc. in OO rather than butter.) Typically, using both butter and olive oil can serve one or both of two purposes. There are a couple of practical reasons: olive oil has a higher smoke point than (unclarified) butter, and so, heating a pan, putting in some olive oil, and then, some butter is less likely to "burn." Also, you can do the saute with the OO, and then, after the saute is complete, if you are making a "pan sauce," the butter can be used at the end to thicken and enrich the sauce, ala a beurre blanc, etc. The latter is ties into the second reason - taste and mouth feel. The former practical reason is one reason to clarify butter, ala ghee, etc., as it is the milk solids that cause the butter to "burn"/brown at lower temps, although this browning characteristic is also intentionally used, where this browning is intended as part of the dish/sauce - beurre noisette/noir. HTH, R |
Garlic and brining?
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 21:24:06 GMT, "Fred" wrote:
On 7-Sep-2009, "Don Phillipson" wrote: Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). Before I make a nice mild brine and smoke my trout 3-6 hrs Lemon and garlic in various forms are essentail ingredients I will sometimes use a little soy sauce as a partial salt substitute I have a sceret recipe for smoking including some whiskey Its a big hit! We also cook w olive oil - We can try to replace the fat comtent w olive oil but sometimes its worth it to add a little butter just for flavoring I would like to know more anout cold smoing Can you elaborate a bit - ? I tried it w some sockeye salmon (lox) but then I was afraid it would be undercooked or smoked so I smoked them as normal a for a litte less time I would like to know more about and have more confidence in cold smokimg? Fred Brining serves a purpose in various forms of "cooking." In cold smoking, it is part of the preserving process as well as part of the seasoning process. Smoking, both hot and cold, are primarily preserving processes that also happen to taste good, at least to a lot of folks. First, keep in mind what "cooking" is, at least as far as most people in the US consider it to be - in the case of meat, it is basically nothing more than denaturing the protein, typically via heat, and intended to make the food "safer" via heat. Therefore, personal preferences aside, all you must do for safety issues is to get the food temperature up high enough to kill any "bugs" that _might_ be present. Since all the likely "bugs" _on_ beef that you'll kill with (reasonable) heat are surfactants, rare cuts are no more dangerous than well-done cuts, but hamburgers _can_ be made potentially safer by cooking the entire burger through to medium or more. IAC, brining/salting can serve several purposes. In the case of cold smoking, it is part of the preservation process. In the case of, for example, modern US pork and chicken, brining can help keep very lean meats "juicy" in cooking, esp. if it is a relatively long cooking process - a "Boston butt" roast or a dry-roasted chicken. Basically, it's diffusion of the moisture into the intercellular spaces, which raises the denaturing temp of the protein, which means less water cooks out in the process and some sources say that there is osmosis of the water into the cells via the saline content of the solution. IME, I've heard the diffusion is accepted and the osmosis is disputed. For my purposes, it works, so I've not done in-depth research. If you really want to know all about it, get a textbook on meat processing techniques - I don't mean that in a smart-assed way, it's just a pretty complicated area that covers a whole lot of material, and as I said, there is some disagreement, at least among the food crowd. If all you want to know is how to properly cold smoke some fish, just brine it, use sawdust (or chips, but as small a pieces as you can get), keep the temp of the smoking chamber _low_ (under about 70-80 degrees), and let it smoke for at least 24 hours - longer is better, esp. for preservation rather than taste. HTH, R |
Garlic and brining?
"Fred" wrote in message
... I would like to know more anout cold smoing Can you elaborate a bit - ? I tried it w some sockeye salmon (lox) but then I was afraid it would be undercooked or smoked so I smoked them as normal a for a litte less time I would like to know more about and have more confidence in cold smokimg? Vendors of smokers usually explain, e.g. see http://www.bradleysmoker.com/faqs.asp Generally hot smoking (at 150 deg. Fahr. or hotter) is cooking for eating today and cold smoke (100 deg. F) is for storage (a month in the fridge, a year if frozen.) Cold smoking takes two or three times as much time. My portable Abu smoker (size of a shoebox, burning alcohol) cooks a fish or cheese sandwich in 20 min. (No need to brine fish. Mixed salt and red pepper is lightly sprinkled beforehand. The red pepper helps you see what you are doing.) My Luhr Jensen smoker hangs 4 to 8 whole sides (max. 16") where they are smoked 7 hours for storage. Recommended brine for cold smoke: Brown sugar 0.25 lb. Salt 1.25 lb.; we use coarse pickling salt Lemon Juice 85 ml. = 85 c.c. = 3 fl. oz (at 29.5 c.c. ea.) Garlic 3 or 4 cloves well mashed Dill weed 3 tablespoons Oregano ample pinch Marjoram ample pinch Water 15 cups (@8 oz.) Time: max. one hour per (weighed) pound of fish. Rinse afterwards under a running faucet and dry overnight (hanging from a bulldog clip) before smoking for several hours. -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
Garlic and brining?
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:28:57 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote: "Fred" wrote in message m... I would like to know more anout cold smoing Can you elaborate a bit - ? I tried it w some sockeye salmon (lox) but then I was afraid it would be undercooked or smoked so I smoked them as normal a for a litte less time I would like to know more about and have more confidence in cold smokimg? Vendors of smokers usually explain, e.g. see http://www.bradleysmoker.com/faqs.asp Generally hot smoking (at 150 deg. Fahr. or hotter) is cooking for eating today and cold smoke (100 deg. F) is for storage (a month in the fridge, a year if frozen.) Cold smoking takes two or three times as much time. My portable Abu smoker (size of a shoebox, burning alcohol) cooks a fish or cheese sandwich in 20 min. (No need to brine fish. Mixed salt and red pepper is lightly sprinkled beforehand. The red pepper helps you see what you are doing.) My Luhr Jensen smoker hangs 4 to 8 whole sides (max. 16") where they are smoked 7 hours for storage. Recommended brine for cold smoke: Brown sugar 0.25 lb. Salt 1.25 lb.; we use coarse pickling salt Lemon Juice 85 ml. = 85 c.c. = 3 fl. oz (at 29.5 c.c. ea.) Garlic 3 or 4 cloves well mashed Dill weed 3 tablespoons Oregano ample pinch Marjoram ample pinch Water 15 cups (@8 oz.) Time: max. one hour per (weighed) pound of fish. Rinse afterwards under a running faucet and dry overnight (hanging from a bulldog clip) before smoking for several hours. You seem to know what you want and how to do it - I am curious, though - have you tried a lower cold temp for a longer time period for your "cold" smoking? The reason I ask is that your temps seem a bit higher than what I'm used to insofar as the general description of "hot" and "cold" smoking. If I understand your premise hot = for eating immediately, that is what we do for things like "BBQ" - pork ribs, brisket, etc. However, we tone it down a bit for things like sausage, hams/tassos, or jerky, and even moreso for fish. I guess, technically, I'm more accustomed to hot, warm, and cold smoking, with the warm and cold being used to both flavor and preserve and the "hot" used for "cooking." This, IME, is somewhat different than smoking as used as a preservative method - "hot" and "cold" in general terminology and warm and cold in my description above - that happens to taste good as a side benefit. TC, R |
Garlic and brining?
On 8-Sep-2009, "Don Phillipson" wrote: I would like to know more about cold smoking Can you elaborate a bit - ? I tried it w some sockeye salmon (lox) but then I was afraid it would be undercooked or smoked so I smoked them as normal a for a litte less time I would like to know more about and have more confidence in cold smokimg? Vendors of smokers usually explain, e.g. see http://www.bradleysmoker.com/faqs.asp Generally hot smoking (at 150 deg. Fahr. or hotter) is cooking for eating today and cold smoke (100 deg. F) is for storage (a month in the fridge, a year if frozen.) Cold smoking takes two or three times as much time. My portable Abu smoker (size of a shoebox, burning alcohol) cooks a fish or cheese sandwich in 20 min. (No need to brine fish. Mixed salt and red pepper is lightly sprinkled beforehand. The red pepper helps you see what you are doing.) My Luhr Jensen smoker hangs 4 to 8 whole sides (max. 16") where they are smoked 7 hours for storage. Recommended brine for cold smoke: Brown sugar 0.25 lb. Salt 1.25 lb.; we use coarse pickling salt Lemon Juice 85 ml. = 85 c.c. = 3 fl. oz (at 29.5 c.c. ea.) Garlic 3 or 4 cloves well mashed Dill weed 3 tablespoons Oregano ample pinch Marjoram ample pinch Water 15 cups (@8 oz.) Time: max. one hour per (weighed) pound of fish. Rinse afterwards under a running faucet and dry overnight (hanging from a bulldog clip) before smoking for several hours. Thanks to you and others (who were at one time blocked) for help re cold smoking. I willl keep this recipe and try it We raise rainbows and I smoke some from time to time in my Weber charcoal smoker I can fit 8 filets or 4 fish It really is not worth smoking less than 2 at a time But I will try the cold smoking on some salmon Fred |
Garlic and brining?
Don Phillipson wrote:
2. Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). Before other cooking methods, it seems likely to make the food too salty. Thank you! I would have ruined a perfectly good pan of trout. Why both olive oil and butter? (I prefer bacon fat to either for pan-fried trout, but fry eggs etc. in OO rather than butter.) I mix extra virgin olive oil with butter to cut down on the butter's expense and fat. If you mix it just right, you think it is just butter (about 2 parts butter to one part OO). I use it on my fried eggs all the time. Thank you for the tips! -T |
Garlic and brining?
Fred wrote:
On 7-Sep-2009, "Don Phillipson" wrote: Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). Before I make a nice mild brine and smoke my trout 3-6 hrs Lemon and garlic in various forms are essentail ingredients I will sometimes use a little soy sauce as a partial salt substitute I have a sceret recipe for smoking including some whiskey Its a big hit! We also cook w olive oil - We can try to replace the fat comtent w olive oil but sometimes its worth it to add a little butter just for flavoring I would like to know more anout cold smoing Can you elaborate a bit - ? I tried it w some sockeye salmon (lox) but then I was afraid it would be undercooked or smoked so I smoked them as normal a for a litte less time I would like to know more about and have more confidence in cold smokimg? Fred Hi Fred, Just pan frying. Margo is allergic to smoke, so I have to stay away from smokers. Thank you for the tips! -T |
Garlic and brining?
Giles wrote:
On Sep 7, 4:24 pm, "Fred" wrote: On 7-Sep-2009, "Don Phillipson" wrote: Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). Before I make a nice mild brine and smoke my trout 3-6 hrs Lemon and garlic in various forms are essentail ingredients Brining may be a prerequisite and lemon and garlic may be essential ingredients......to suit some palates, but none of the above is needed for any practical reasons. While there are virtually infinite delicious methods and ingredients and recipes for preparing trout, none of them is necessary for any reasons other than suiting individual tastes. Personally, I prefer smoking to all other methods for trout.....and I like simplest best. Just trout and warm hickory smoke for an hour or so. g. Thank you for the tips -T |
Garlic and brining?
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Garlic and brining?
Don Phillipson wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message ... I would like to know more anout cold smoing Can you elaborate a bit - ? I tried it w some sockeye salmon (lox) but then I was afraid it would be undercooked or smoked so I smoked them as normal a for a litte less time I would like to know more about and have more confidence in cold smokimg? Vendors of smokers usually explain, e.g. see http://www.bradleysmoker.com/faqs.asp Generally hot smoking (at 150 deg. Fahr. or hotter) is cooking for eating today and cold smoke (100 deg. F) is for storage (a month in the fridge, a year if frozen.) Cold smoking takes two or three times as much time. My portable Abu smoker (size of a shoebox, burning alcohol) cooks a fish or cheese sandwich in 20 min. (No need to brine fish. Mixed salt and red pepper is lightly sprinkled beforehand. The red pepper helps you see what you are doing.) My Luhr Jensen smoker hangs 4 to 8 whole sides (max. 16") where they are smoked 7 hours for storage. Recommended brine for cold smoke: Brown sugar 0.25 lb. Salt 1.25 lb.; we use coarse pickling salt Lemon Juice 85 ml. = 85 c.c. = 3 fl. oz (at 29.5 c.c. ea.) Garlic 3 or 4 cloves well mashed Dill weed 3 tablespoons Oregano ample pinch Marjoram ample pinch Water 15 cups (@8 oz.) Time: max. one hour per (weighed) pound of fish. Rinse afterwards under a running faucet and dry overnight (hanging from a bulldog clip) before smoking for several hours. I am stuck with the frying pan, but thank you for the thoughtful tips! Marjoram. Hmmmm -T |
Garlic and brining?
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Garlic and brining?
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:03:26 GMT, "Fred" wrote:
If all you want to know is how to properly cold smoke some fish, just brine it, use sawdust (or chips, but as small a pieces as you can get), keep the temp of the smoking chamber _low_ (under about 70-80 degrees), and let it smoke for at least 24 hours - longer is better, esp. for preservation rather than taste. On 8-Sep-2009, wrote: Generally hot smoking (at 150 deg. Fahr. or hotter) is cooking for eating today and cold smoke (100 deg. F) is for storage (a month in the fridge, a year if frozen.) Cold smoking takes two or three times as much time. My portable Abu smoker (size of a shoebox, burning alcohol) cooks a fish or cheese sandwich in 20 min. (No need to brine fish. Mixed salt and red pepper is lightly sprinkled beforehand. The red pepper helps you see what you are doing.) My Luhr Jensen smoker hangs 4 to 8 whole sides (max. 16") where they are smoked 7 hours for storage. We smoke for preservation and of course - taste Some is eaten right away and at least half is frozen. There seems to be a discrepancy in the temps and advice given from 80F to 100F When we smoke We do several fish at a time - not less than 2 My inclination is to opt for the higher temps - for at least over 6-7 hrs as I am wary of cold smoking due to health concerns What health concerns are you, um, concerned about? The entire process of smoking fish, meat, etc. (the brining, smoking, etc.) has been in use for quite a while, and if were not a safe and effective method, well, it would not have been. This is not to say that you can do it any old way and have it work out, only that if it is done properly, under sanitary conditions, and with good-quality base ingredients, there should not be any health concerns for an otherwise-healthy person. As I said, the whole scientific aspect of preserving meats, fish, etc. fills up text- and reference books, and if you are interested in the "whys" rather than the "hows," there are a number of them out there. Again, I'm not being a wiseass, just that minutiae of the whole process/processes is a fair amount of information - try to imagine 50 typical posts each from Mike Connor and Goatgang, but with real information. For me, it's like using an electrical outlet - I generally understand the process, I understand the wiring, but really, all I care about for the purposes of getting whatever electrical device I'm attempting to use to work is that "plug it in, turn it on, it works..." As to temps, keep in mind that temperature is not the only aspect of preservation, and "preservation" in this context basically means "making this stuff safe to eat at x point in time." For example, pancetta isn't smoked, only cured and dried, whereas in the US, "bacon" is cured and smoked and "country ham" is cured, smoked, dried, etc. and mold growth on the surface is part of it. All are various methods of making pig parts safe to store and eat at some future time. As to fish, look to things like gravlax, lox, "Scottish" smoked salmon, etc. for a range of curing/smoking/preserving methods. Further, keep in mind that "brine"/"brining" does not mean just "salt and water" and what I suspect you call "cooking" is really the denaturing of protein via heat (only). While "heat" can and does certainly kill things that could make one sick, it is not the only way to achieve that goal - look at sashimi (_extreme_ cold in modern preparation/"preserving" - no, a typical home freezer won't do it), ceviche (denaturing in an acidic "brine," which is why it is opaque), etc. So, basically, there are a number of methods that can be used and/or combined to make the food "healthy" - or really, "safe" to consume. I think you'll find that while the taste aspect is, for many, a welcome side-benefit, the "safe to eat" aspect is what got this or that process into long-term usage. If all else fails, I suppose you could mix up some bleach and water in a Gatorade bottle... TC, R Fred |
Garlic and brining?
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Garlic and brining?
wrote in message
... You seem to know what you want and how to do it - I am curious, though - have you tried a lower cold temp for a longer time period for your "cold" smoking? Short answer is that my Luhr Jensen (is 30 years old and) has no temperature control. The more recent Bradley smoker has this (has two selectable burners for cold and hot smoke.) The traditional way of assuring cold smoke was: smoke chamber = anything convenient (e.g. a discarded fridge, with holes where appropriate; a firepit several feet distant, a pipe from firepit to smoke chamber on the surface (or buried to get even cooler), a thermometer. This requires skill in building and maintaining for several hours the right size of fire in the firepit. Electric hotplate smokers need no such skill. I have not seen a traditional backyard smoker for decades. Some big BBQs advertise that they can smoke but I never needed to test this. (My first trial of smoking was about 1974, in a huge cardboard carton over a hibachi. I forget how the fish was supported. My first LJ smoker meant more and better smoking with intinitely less trouble.) -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
Garlic and brining?
In message , Todd writes
Don Phillipson wrote: 2. Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). Before other cooking methods, it seems likely to make the food too salty. Thank you! I would have ruined a perfectly good pan of trout. Why both olive oil and butter? (I prefer bacon fat to either for pan-fried trout, but fry eggs etc. in OO rather than butter.) I mix extra virgin olive oil with butter to cut down on the butter's expense and fat. If you mix it just right, you think it is just butter (about 2 parts butter to one part OO). I use it on my fried eggs all the time. Thank you for the tips! -T A simple delicious recipe :- A scrambled egg with some smoked salmon or Rainbow trout flaked over it. Nothing fancy. -- Bill Grey |
Garlic and brining?
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:30:24 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote: wrote in message .. . You seem to know what you want and how to do it - I am curious, though - have you tried a lower cold temp for a longer time period for your "cold" smoking? Short answer is that my Luhr Jensen (is 30 years old and) has no temperature control. The more recent Bradley smoker has this (has two selectable burners for cold and hot smoke.) The traditional way of assuring cold smoke was: smoke chamber = anything convenient (e.g. a discarded fridge, with holes where appropriate; a firepit several feet distant, a pipe from firepit to smoke chamber on the surface (or buried to get even cooler), a thermometer. This requires skill in building and maintaining for several hours the right size of fire in the firepit. Electric hotplate smokers need no such skill. I have not seen a traditional backyard smoker for decades. Some big BBQs advertise that they can smoke but I never needed to test this. (My first trial of smoking was about 1974, in a huge cardboard carton over a hibachi. I forget how the fish was supported. My first LJ smoker meant more and better smoking with intinitely less trouble.) Much of early "cold" smoking techniques took advantage of the cooler temps, either seasonal or locational, to "cold" smoke. In the US, "country hams" are started in the fall for this reason. For cold smoking, the less insulation the better or the better the vessel can shed heat, the easier the cold smoking. A couple of clean metal garbage cans or food-safe clean 55-gallon drums and some vent pipe, and you've got a cold or warm smoker, and the drums will also make a good "hot" smoker/BBQ. An electric hot plate is useful for cold or warm smoking, but a separate fire from which you can transfer coals will also work. Obviously, you can't properly cold smoke if it's 105F in the shade (air temp) without some cooling system. But if it's 50-60F, it's not hard at all to maintain 80ish in the smoker. If you've never tried doing it yourself, IMO, for someone who knows what they are doing, it's well worth trying. If you've had very thinly sliced smoked salmon that looks sorta "raw," and you like it, that's what "cold" smoking will produce (under about 80F or so - at about 100F or so, you've started "cooking"). If it flakes or "whitens" _at all_, the "cooking" process has begun (and while the flaking isn't a result, directly, of the "cooking"/denaturing of the protein - it's the collegen breaking down - it's an "at-a-glance" way to know that you're hot smoking rather than cold smoking fish). And for others that may be following along, the previously-mentioned "brining" is an intergral part of this process. As an aside, a perfect example of what we do with "warm smoke" is using one of the upright "Brinkmann" type smokers - get some coals from the fire and put them in the pan in the smoker. Add a double-handful of hickory nuts and a few hickory sticks. Place some "country ribs" or a Boston butt/uncured "picnic ham" on the upper rack, put the drip pan in-between, shut the door, and don't touch for a few hours. It'll get to about 120-130F, tops, esp. in the fall. It is strictly a "taste" application and it'll need some further "heat cooking," but damn, it sure is good. TC, R |
Garlic and brining?
On Sep 8, 2:01*pm, ToddAndMargo
wrote: wrote: On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 21:24:06 GMT, "Fred" wrote: On *7-Sep-2009, "Don Phillipson" wrote: Brining is prerequisite to smoking (strong brine for cold smoke, mild brine for hot smoke). *Before I make a nice mild brine and smoke my trout 3-6 hrs Lemon and garlic in various forms are essentail ingredients I will sometimes use *a little soy sauce as a partial salt substitute I have a sceret recipe for smoking including some whiskey Its a big hit! We also cook w olive oil - We can try to replace the fat comtent w olive oil but sometimes its worth it to add a little butter just for flavoring I would like to know more anout cold smoing Can you elaborate a bit - ? I tried it w some sockeye salmon (lox) but then I was afraid it would be undercooked or smoked so I smoked them as normal a for a litte less time I would like to know more about and have more confidence in cold smokimg? Fred Brining serves a purpose in various forms of "cooking." *In cold smoking, it is part of the preserving process as well as part of the seasoning process.. Smoking, both hot and cold, are primarily preserving processes that also happen to taste good, at least to a lot of folks. *First, keep in mind what "cooking" is, at least as far as most people in the US consider it to be - in the case of meat, it is basically nothing more than denaturing the protein, typically via heat, and intended to make the food "safer" via heat. *Therefore, personal preferences aside, all you must do for safety issues is to get the food temperature up high enough to kill any "bugs" that _might_ be present. *Since all the likely "bugs" _on_ beef that you'll kill with (reasonable) heat are surfactants, rare cuts are no more dangerous than well-done cuts, but hamburgers _can_ be made potentially safer by cooking the entire burger through to medium or more. IAC, brining/salting can serve several purposes. *In the case of cold smoking, it is part of the preservation process. *In the case of, for example, modern US pork and chicken, brining can help keep very lean meats "juicy" in cooking, esp. if it is a relatively long cooking process - a "Boston butt" roast or a dry-roasted chicken. *Basically, it's diffusion of the moisture into the intercellular spaces, which raises the denaturing temp of the protein, which means less water cooks out in the process and some sources say that there is osmosis of the water into the cells via the saline content of the solution. IME, I've heard the diffusion is accepted and the osmosis is disputed. *For my purposes, it works, so I've not done in-depth research. *If you really want to know all about it, get a textbook on meat processing techniques - I don't mean that in a smart-assed way, it's just a pretty complicated area that covers a whole lot of material, and as I said, there is some disagreement, at least among the food crowd. If all you want to know is how to properly cold smoke some fish, just brine it, use sawdust (or chips, but as small a pieces as you can get), keep the temp of the smoking chamber _low_ (under about 70-80 degrees), and let it smoke for at least 24 hours - longer is better, esp. for preservation rather than taste. HTH, R I am stuck with the frying pan, but thank you for the thoughtful tips! If it's a cast iron pan you can smoke in it. Throw some soaked wood chips in it, put the fish on a grill of sorts on top of the pan, cover with a foil tent and let the whole mess sit on a Coleman stove (or any equivalent.....a grill will do.....or an open fire) for half an hour to half a day......depending on temperature. g. |
Garlic and brining?
On Sep 8, 3:00*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:03:26 GMT, "Fred" wrote: If all you want to know is how to properly cold smoke some fish, just brine it, use sawdust (or chips, but as small a pieces as you can get), keep the temp of the smoking chamber _low_ (under about 70-80 degrees), and let it smoke for at least 24 hours - longer is better, esp. for preservation rather than taste. On *8-Sep-2009, wrote: Generally hot smoking (at 150 deg. Fahr. or hotter) is cooking for eating today and cold smoke (100 deg. F) is for storage (a month in the fridge, a year if frozen.) Cold smoking takes two or three times as much time. My portable Abu smoker (size of a shoebox, burning alcohol) cooks a fish or cheese sandwich in 20 min. (No need to brine fish. *Mixed salt and red pepper is lightly sprinkled beforehand. *The red pepper helps you see what you are doing.) * My Luhr Jensen smoker hangs 4 to 8 whole sides (max. 16") where they are smoked 7 hours for storage. We smoke for preservation and of course - taste Some is eaten right away and at least half is frozen. There seems to be a discrepancy in the temps and advice given from 80F to 100F When we *smoke We do several fish at a time - not less than 2 My inclination is to opt for the higher temps - for at least over 6-7 hrs as I am wary of cold smoking due to health concerns What health concerns are you, um, concerned about? *The entire process of smoking fish, meat, etc. (the brining, smoking, etc.) has been in use for quite a while, and if were not a safe and effective method, well, it would not have been. *This is not to say that you can do it any old way and have it work out, only that if it is done properly, under sanitary conditions, and with good-quality base ingredients, there should not be any health concerns for an otherwise-healthy person. As I said, the whole scientific aspect of preserving meats, fish, etc. fills up text- and reference books, and if you are interested in the "whys" rather than the "hows," there are a number of them out there. *Again, I'm not being a wiseass, just that minutiae of the whole process/processes is a fair amount of information - try to imagine 50 typical posts each from Mike Connor and Goatgang, but with real information. *For me, it's like using an electrical outlet - I generally understand the process, I understand the wiring, but really, all I care about for the purposes of getting whatever electrical device I'm attempting to use to work is that "plug it in, turn it on, it works...." As to temps, keep in mind that temperature is not the only aspect of preservation, and "preservation" in this context basically means "making this stuff safe to eat at x point in time." *For example, pancetta isn't smoked, only cured and dried, whereas in the US, "bacon" is cured and smoked and "country ham" is cured, smoked, dried, etc. and mold growth on the surface is part of it. *All are various methods of making pig parts safe to store and eat at some future time. *As to fish, look to things like gravlax, lox, "Scottish" smoked salmon, etc. for a range of curing/smoking/preserving methods. *Further, keep in mind that "brine"/"brining" does not mean just "salt and water" and what I suspect you call "cooking" is really the denaturing of protein via heat (only). *While "heat" can and does certainly kill things that could make one sick, it is not the only way to achieve that goal - look at sashimi (_extreme_ cold in modern preparation/"preserving" - no, a typical home freezer won't do it), ceviche (denaturing in an acidic "brine," which is why it is opaque), etc. So, basically, there are a number of methods that can be used and/or combined to make the food "healthy" - or really, "safe" to consume. *I think you'll find that while the taste aspect is, for many, a welcome side-benefit, the "safe to eat" aspect is what got this or that process into long-term usage. If all else fails, I suppose you could mix up some bleach and water in a Gatorade bottle... TC, R Idiot. g. |
Garlic and brining?
On Sep 8, 4:25*pm, "Fred" wrote:
On *8-Sep-2009, wrote: *try to imagine 50 typical posts each from Mike Connor and Goatgang, but with real information. *For me, it's like using an electrical outlet - I generally understand the process, I understand the wiring, but really, all I care about for the purposes of getting whatever electrical device I'm attempting to use to work is that "plug it in, turn it on, it works..." No particular health concerns - Just a fear of under cooking or curing but with the wonderful analogy of the posters above I may choose food poisining and death. Thanks Fred So, if there are no health concerns, what promps your fear of under cooking or curing? g. who, generally, isn't much afraid of things that pose no risks. |
Garlic and brining?
On Sep 8, 6:20*pm, wrote:
Much of early "cold" smoking techniques took advantage of the cooler temps, either seasonal or locational, to "cold" smoke. *In the US, "country hams" are started in the fall for this reason. Abject nonsense. Smaoking has traditionally been done in the fall because those doing the smoking were taking advantage of the fact that meat animals (whether domestic or wild) were fattened on the bounty of the late summer. Controlling a small contained fire isn't as difficult as those who have never mastered it suppose.....regardless of time of year. For cold smoking, the less insulation the better or the better the vessel can shed heat, the easier the cold smoking. *A couple of clean metal garbage cans or food-safe clean 55-gallon drums and some vent pipe, and you've got a cold or warm smoker, and the drums will also make a good "hot" smoker/BBQ. *An electric hot plate is useful for cold or warm smoking, but a separate fire from which you can transfer coals will also work. Obviously, you can't properly cold smoke if it's 105F in the shade (air temp) without some cooling system. *But if it's 50-60F, it's not hard at all to maintain 80ish in the smoker. *If you've never tried doing it yourself, IMO, for someone who knows what they are doing, it's well worth trying. *If you've had very thinly sliced smoked salmon that looks sorta "raw," and you like it, that's what "cold" smoking will produce (under about 80F or so - at about 100F or so, you've started "cooking"). *If it flakes or "whitens" _at all_, the "cooking" process has begun (and while the flaking isn't a result, directly, of the "cooking"/denaturing of the protein - it's the collegen breaking down - it's an "at-a-glance" way to know that you're hot smoking rather than cold smoking fish). *And for others that may be following along, the previously-mentioned "brining" is an intergral part of this process. As an aside, a perfect example of what we do with "warm smoke" is using one of the upright "Brinkmann" type smokers - get some coals from the fire and put them in the pan in the smoker. *Add a double-handful of hickory nuts and a few hickory sticks. *Place some "country ribs" or a Boston butt/uncured "picnic ham" on the upper rack, put the drip pan in-between, shut the door, and don't touch for a few hours. *It'll get to about 120-130F, tops, esp. in the fall. *It is strictly a "taste" application and it'll need some further "heat cooking," but damn, it sure is good. TC, R- Good god, you are stupid. g. |
Garlic and brining?
On Sep 8, 1:57*pm, Todd wrote:
Just pan frying. *Margo is allergic to smoke, so I have to stay away from smokers. Actually, it would probably be wiser.....and a whole lot easier.....to keep Margo away from the smoke.....or vice versa. Thank you for the tips! You're welcome. g. |
Garlic and brining?
On Sep 8, 1:55*pm, Todd wrote:
I mix extra virgin olive oil with butter to cut down on the butter's expense and fat. *If you mix it just right, you think it is just butter (about 2 parts butter to one part OO). *I use it on my fried eggs all the time. Olive oil is, practically speaking, pure fat. Using pure fat does not cut down on fat. For that matter, using a good olive oil doesn't cut down on cost either, as a substitute for butter. Thank you for the tips! You're welcome. giles |
Garlic and brining?
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