ot health care
 

I'm getting worried.

Although born an American, I've lived and fished in Ireland and the UK
for a long time.

But I've been reading recently just how bad the socialist health care
over here is, compared to the USA. The Investors' Business Daily wrote
recently:

'The U.K.'s National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence
(NICE) basically figures out who deserves treatment by using a
cost-utility analysis based on the "quality adjusted life year."
'One year in perfect health gets you one point. Deductions are
taken for blindness, for being in a wheelchair and so on.
'The more points you have, the more your life is considered worth
saving, and the likelier you are to get care.
'People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in
the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this
brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially
worthless.'

And this recent Fox News report

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c-JE...layer_embedded

demonstrates that the British National Health system is responsible for
a substatial proportion of international terrorism.

I'm now in my fifties, with two genetic, chronic illnesses (ankylosing
spondylitis and hemochromatosis) which need constant attention.

Should I think of moving back to the States?

Lazarus

ot health care
 

g
very amusing, Lazarus.
Tom

ot health care
 

On 16-Sep-2009, Lazarus Cooke wrote:

I'm now in my fifties, with two genetic, chronic illnesses (ankylosing
spondylitis and hemochromatosis) which need constant attention.

Should I think of moving back to the States?

Lazarus

Thanks for the OT in your post
MAN! You have opened a can of worms w this NOW!
Healthcare is the major issue here other than wars and bailouts
I would not even aatempt to go into this on this list, but at our age, my
wife and I, health insurance is our largest expense by far
Fortunately we have enough $$ for catastrophic insurance but I shudder to
think what if?
Most American cannot say the same.

I am sorry for your illnesses and I do wish you the best
but
I hope that this topic does not burst into flames

Fred

ot health care
 

Fred wrote:
Lazarus Cooke wrote:
I'm now in my fifties, with two genetic, chronic illnesses (ankylosing
spondylitis and hemochromatosis) which need constant attention.

Should I think of moving back to the States?

snip
I am sorry for your illnesses and I do wish you the best
but
I hope that this topic does not burst into flames

Fred, the only flames Mr. Cooke's post has generated so far are
the flames coming off your scalp as it scorched over your head
at supersonic speed. It was a joke, Fred.

HTH

--
Ken Fortenberry

ot health care
 

On Sep 16, 10:12*pm, "Fred" wrote:


I hope that this topic does not burst into flames

If it did, would you **** on it?

g.

ot health care
 

On Sep 16, 10:26*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
Fred wrote:
Lazarus Cooke wrote:
I'm now in my fifties, with two genetic, chronic illnesses (ankylosing
spondylitis and hemochromatosis) which need constant attention.

Should I think of moving back to the States?

snip
I am sorry for your illnesses and I do wish you the best
but
I hope that this topic does not burst into flames

Fred, the only flames Mr. Cooke's post has generated so far are
the flames coming off your scalp as it scorched over your head
at supersonic speed. It was a joke, Fred.

Just when you think all is lost, out jumps perspicacity!

Huzzah!

giles

ot health care
 

On 16-Sep-2009, Ken Fortenberry wrote:

the only flames Mr. Cooke's post has generated so far are
the flames coming off your scalp as it scorched over your head
at supersonic speed. It was a joke,

Whoosh - right over my head
I am going to stick my head in a pail of water

Fred

ot health care
 

In article , Fred
wrote:


I am sorry for your illnesses and I do wish you the best
but
I hope that this topic does not burst into flames

Fred

Fred, thanks for your concern.

Nothing in my post was untrue. I do have those illnesses.

The quotations were accurate (although the writer failed to notice that
Stephen Hawkings is English, born in England, and has lived his
difficult life being cared for by the british National Health Service -
bit of a mistake).

When I was diagnosed with hemochromatosis, about six or seven years
ago, my physician suggested I go home and research on the internet who
I'd like to be treated by.

I found a man, AB, who was the expert in the Liver Unit at King's
College Hospital in London, and who wrote the major review of treatment
of this rare disease for 'The Lancet'. He was clearly the best man in
Britain, and is certainly one of the best in the world.

( http://www.kch.nhs.uk/services/liver/hepatology/ )

I was referred to him, and he's been treating me ever since. When I
feel I need him, I call his direct line, and normally I'll see him the
following morning.

If I were to move back to the US, how much should I budget for to get a
better standard of service?

Lazarus

ot health care
 

On 2009-09-17 18:02:55 -0400, Lazarus Cooke
said:

If I were to move back to the US, how much should I budget for to get a
better standard of service?

Nothing!

When I had prostate cancer at the ripe old age of 59, I had the same
Gleason Score as Bill Bixby (from the TV series Hulk). Bixby died just
before I was diagnosed and I was somewhat familiar with his case,
including his Gleason Score. Our cases were very similar. My tumor
was classified as lethally aggressive - i.e, if it wasn't treated very
quickly and aggressivly, I would die. I mean, TREATMENT NOW, THIS
MINUTE, NOT TOMORROW/NEXTWEEK/NEXTMONTH.

Between the time on that dreadful Friday afternoon when I was told I
had cancer and the following Monday morning, Joanne and I researched
prostate cancer in every book/article in the library/internet we could
get our hands on. When we met with the doctors on Monday morning, we
were fairly well informed. We had also searched out the best medical
team in the Boston area dealing with prostate cancer, and even
considered going to Baltimore and John Hopkins which was THE leader in
the entire world on prostate cancer and radical prostatectomy. We had
at our disposal whomever we selected. Our team in Concord
Massachusetts was considered one of the best and we went with them.

Long story short, I was cured. My doctors shrunk the tumor (remember,
"lethally aggresive"), removed it along with the organ itself in a four
hour operation, sewed me up, put in a catheter (removed a couple of
weeks later), and I have been peein' straight and sex is great ever
since. Total cost: $10 co-payment the first time I saw my urologist.
Nowhere in the world could I have received better treatment. NOWHERE!

Because I considered myself so very fortunate, I participated in a
prostate cancer survivors newsgroup for some months afterwards. I read
some horrible experiences of men with similar tumors who were nowhere
near as fortunate as I. They lived in Canada, UK, Germany, and some in
the States. My insurance paid all the expenses of that and other close
calls with death since then at a cost of about $1000/year, plus $10
co-pay each visit. My medications are paid for except for a small
co-payment per subscription.

Now that I am into my 70s and Joanne has retired, I am on medi-care,
which, so far, has treated me well. I'll take what I have now and what
I had those many years ago before I take anything Canada or GB can
offer me. I selected my own doctors, my own treatment; it was done MY
way, not the government's way, and I am alive and fairly healthy all
these many years afterward because of the decisions *I* made.

Hope you are well.

Dave
(and, yes, I am sure there are many success stories out of Canada/GB,
and many not so successful out of the USofA, but I'll keep what I have,
thankyouverymuchmrobama! Leave my health care the **** alone!!!!!)

ot health care
 

David LaCourse wrote:

Now that I am into my 70s and Joanne has retired, I am on medi-care,
which, so far, has treated me well. I'll take what I have now and what
I had those many years ago before I take anything Canada or GB can offer
me. I selected my own doctors, my own treatment; it was done MY way,
not the government's way, and I am alive and fairly healthy all these
many years afterward because of the decisions *I* made.

Hope you are well.

Dave
(and, yes, I am sure there are many success stories out of Canada/GB,
and many not so successful out of the USofA, but I'll keep what I have,
thankyouverymuchmrobama! Leave my health care the **** alone!!!!!)

Do you think people in Canada or Great Britain do not get to select
their own doctors?

Tim Lysyk

ot health care
 

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:02:55 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

If I were to move back to the US, how much should I budget for to get a
better standard of service?

Somewhere between nothing and a whole bunch...if you moved back today, at your
age, with pre-existing conditions, you might have to sign on the line for the
whole bill...you might not actually have to _pay_ it, all or partial, however.
OTOH, depending on your employer (and you'd not need be even low/mid-management
- hell, you could be Hawking's hub-greaser's second assistant and have full
coverage, or, you could be a senior manager of whatever and have none), it
might cost you nothing AND you'd have disability payments while down, if you
were down. Hell, a _full_ ride for all (even retirees with Medicare and a sup
available), healthcare-wise, is a big part of what put GM where it is...and the
UK where it is...

Let me ask you this - at what point do you feel your obligation to help pay for
the healthcare of others ends? And what obligation do you feel others have to
pay for yours?


HTH,
R

Lazarus

ot health care
 

On Sep 17, 11:50*am, "Fred" wrote:
On 16-Sep-2009, Ken Fortenberry wrote:

the only flames Mr. Cooke's post has generated so far are
the flames coming off your scalp as it scorched over your head
at supersonic speed. It was a joke,

Whoosh - right over my head
I am going to stick my head in a pail of water

Fred

Still there? freddie? freddie?

g.
who could have told him that wasn't a very good idea for someone who
doesn't know which way is up. :(

ot health care
 

On Sep 17, 8:06*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-17 18:02:55 -0400, Lazarus Cooke
said:

If I were to move back to the US, how much should I budget for to get a
better standard of service?

Nothing!

When I had prostate cancer at the ripe old age of 59, I had the same
Gleason Score as Bill Bixby (from the TV series Hulk). *Bixby died just
before I was diagnosed and I was somewhat familiar with his case,
including his Gleason Score. *Our cases were very similar. *My tumor
was classified as lethally aggressive - i.e, if it wasn't treated very
quickly and aggressivly, I would die. *I mean, TREATMENT NOW, THIS
MINUTE, NOT TOMORROW/NEXTWEEK/NEXTMONTH.

Between the time on that dreadful Friday afternoon when I was told I
had cancer and the following Monday morning, Joanne and I researched
prostate cancer in every book/article in the library/internet we could
get our hands on. *When we met with the doctors on Monday morning, we
were fairly well informed. *We had also searched out the best medical
team in the Boston area dealing with prostate cancer, and even
considered going to Baltimore and John Hopkins which was THE leader in
the entire world on prostate cancer and radical prostatectomy. *We had
at our disposal whomever we selected. * Our team in Concord
Massachusetts was considered one of the best and we went with them.

Long story short, I was cured. *My doctors shrunk the tumor (remember,
"lethally aggresive"), removed it along with the organ itself in a four
hour operation, sewed me up, put in a catheter (removed a couple of
weeks later), and I have been peein' straight and sex is great ever
since. *Total cost: *$10 co-payment the first time I saw my urologist.. *
Nowhere in the world could I have received better treatment. *NOWHERE!

Because I considered myself so very fortunate, I participated in a
prostate cancer survivors newsgroup for some months afterwards. *I read
some horrible experiences of men with similar tumors who were nowhere
near as fortunate as I. *They lived in Canada, UK, Germany, and some in
the States. *My insurance paid all the expenses of that and other close
calls with death since then at a cost of about $1000/year, plus $10
co-pay each visit. *My medications are paid for except for a small
co-payment per subscription.

Now that I am into my 70s and Joanne has retired, I am on medi-care,
which, so far, has treated me well. *I'll take what I have now and what
I had those many years ago before I take anything Canada or GB can
offer me. *I selected my own doctors, my own treatment; *it was done MY
way, not the government's way, and I am alive and fairly healthy all
these many years afterward because of the decisions *I* made.

Hope you are well.

Dave
(and, yes, I am sure there are many success stories out of Canada/GB,
and many not so successful out of the USofA, but I'll keep what I have,
thankyouverymuchmrobama! *Leave my health care the **** alone!!!!!)

Imbecile.

g.

ot health care
 

On Sep 17, 9:44*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:02:55 +0100, Lazarus Cooke

wrote:
If I were to move back to the US, how much should I budget for to get a
better standard of service?

Somewhere between nothing and a whole bunch...if you moved back today, at your
age, with pre-existing conditions, you might have to sign on the line for the
whole bill...you might not actually have to _pay_ it, all or partial, however.
OTOH, depending on your employer (and you'd not need be even low/mid-management
- hell, you could be Hawking's hub-greaser's second assistant and have full
coverage, or, you could be a senior manager of whatever and have none), it
might cost you nothing AND you'd have disability payments while down, if you
were down.

In other words, you have nothing at all to say about the matter.

Hell, a _full_ ride for all (even retirees with Medicare and a sup
available), healthcare-wise, is a big part of what put GM where it is...and the
UK where it is...

Rank stupidity. Let's see if anyone cares to explain why.

Let me ask you this - at what point do you feel your obligation to help pay for
the healthcare of others ends? *And what obligation do you feel others have to
pay for yours?

Do you have any idea at all of what the word "insurance" means?

g.

ot health care
 

On Sep 17, 8:48*pm, Tim Lysyk wrote:
David LaCourse wrote:
Now that I am into my 70s and Joanne has retired, I am on medi-care,
which, so far, has treated me well. *I'll take what I have now and what
I had those many years ago before I take anything Canada or GB can offer
me. *I selected my own doctors, my own treatment; *it was done MY way,
not the government's way, and I am alive and fairly healthy all these
many years afterward because of the decisions *I* made.

Hope you are well.

Dave
(and, yes, I am sure there are many success stories out of Canada/GB,
and many not so successful out of the USofA, but I'll keep what I have,
thankyouverymuchmrobama! *Leave my health care the **** alone!!!!!)

Do you think people in Canada or Great Britain do not get to select
their own doctors?

Tim Lysyk

See, I just do not understand why you Canadians, English, Germans,
etc. must INSIST that you know more about your respective health care
systems than we do! Why, oh WHY can you not simply accept your
comprehensive inferiority and just LISTEN!!??

g.

ot health care
 

wrote in message
...
at what point do you feel your obligation to help pay for
the healthcare of others ends?


just to jump into this mess before going fishing for a week......
I have, my whole life, been paying for the healthcare of others, through a
group health insurance plan and the subsidies included in same, not to
mention taxes that go to Medicare and Medicaid. My obligation, as a citizen
of the nation?? Yes, IMHO, that is what makes a social compact work. Could
the compact be reworked so that the costs passed on to me be lessened, and
less people suffer? It sure could, once again IMHO.
Tom

ot health care
 

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:29:27 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
at what point do you feel your obligation to help pay for
the healthcare of others ends?


just to jump into this mess before going fishing for a week......
I have, my whole life, been paying for the healthcare of others,

Geez, dude - I had no idea your dad was such a mean ol' *******...

"Tom, get your lazy ass up outta that crib, change that smelly diaper, and get
to work - you've got some healthcare to pay for, boy! And no Gerber's strained
peas for you until you get in at least half-a-day..."

But, hey, you were probably a big, healthy toddler, so I guess fair's fair, what
with social compacts and all...


through a
group health insurance plan and the subsidies included in same, not to
mention taxes that go to Medicare and Medicaid. My obligation, as a citizen
of the nation?? Yes, IMHO, that is what makes a social compact work. Could
the compact be reworked so that the costs passed on to me be lessened, and
less people suffer? It sure could, once again IMHO.

OK - and to whom should the costs be passed on?

And I'm not disagreeing with the general concept that the "stronger" can and
should help the "weaker" - or, if one prefers, the more able help the less able
- I do take exception to the use of "fortunate" helping the "less-fortunate"
because quite often "the fortunate" are so because of hard work and "the
less-fortunate" are so because of the lack of it. Which is one of my points -
in this "social compact," do you feel any need to help, via your and your
family's hard work, those who simply won't work? What about someone who leaves
a decent-enough job that provides good healthcare to start their own business
(or otherwise leaves out of mere desire)? I know folks who have kept jobs that
they didn't particularly like (but could do without any negative effects
whatsoever) because of healthcare and retirement benefits. For those who made
the choice to give that up, do you feel the need to help them? And what about
people who make poor health choices with no way to pay for the associated costs?
I mean, if Bill Gates chooses to smoke 42 packs of barebutt Luckies dipped in
PCP a day, eating nothing but chocolate fried-in-lard doughnuts washed down with
Red Bull and Everclear, while driving a fully-restored-to-absolute-original Ford
Pinto, which he loves to use to brake-check heavy-equipment haulers while
drafting gasoline trucks, to go bungee jumping inside of asbestos-coated silica
silos, that's one thing, but what if Joe-the-unemployed-plumber does so? What
about Joe-the-doing-quite-well-self-employed-plumber-who-would-rather-spend-his-
money-on-toys-and-other-crap-rather-than-the-heath-insurance-he-could-easily-
afford-if-he-didn't-spend-it-all-and-then-some-on-toys-and-other-crap?

IOW - and perhaps I was unclear - at what point do you feel your obligation to
help pay for the healthcare of others ends?

HTH,
R
....and what about Frank - I mean, if he chooses to, oh, say, stand up and like,
move or something, should you be on the hook for his cavalier recklessness...?

Tom

ot health care
 

On 2009-09-17 21:48:48 -0400, Tim Lysyk said:

Do you think people in Canada or Great Britain do not get to select
their own doctors?

I don't know, but I do know they seem to have to wait longer for
certain procedures. Time was very important in my case. It had to be
done NOW and was. I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

ot health care
 

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:47:40 -0400, David LaCourse wrote:

I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

Oh, come on, now...in at least _some_ parts of both countries, they wouldn't
have beat you _to death_...I mean, if you ordered Drambuie and Vermouth
(...what's it called again - a Chipped Nail? A Bent Pinhead? A Rusty
Trombone?...) they might have slapped you around a bit, but not beat you smooth
to death...

HTH,
R
....OTOH, so maybe if you bitched about the octane of the gas while bragging
about yer expensive rubber britches, even the more reserved would have beat you
pretty badly, but still, I don't think they'd have actually killed you...

ot health care
 

David LaCourse wrote:
I don't know, but I do know they seem to have to wait longer for certain
procedures. Time was very important in my case. It had to be done NOW
and was. I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

You're just making **** up. You have absolutely no way of knowing
your chances of survival in Canada or the UK because you don't
know diddly about health care in Canada or the UK. But you've
never let ignorance stop you from spouting off your fat mouth
before so why should this time be any different.

You're a great Republican, Louie. Keep up the good work and ...

Carry on.

--
Ken Fortenberry

ot health care
 

On 2009-09-18 08:18:34 -0400, said:

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:47:40 -0400, David LaCourse wrote:

I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

Oh, come on, now...in at least _some_ parts of both countries, they wouldn't
have beat you _to death_...I mean, if you ordered Drambuie and Vermouth
(...what's it called again - a Chipped Nail? A Bent Pinhead? A Rusty
Trombone?...) they might have slapped you around a bit, but not beat you smooth
to death...


HTH,
R
...OTOH, so maybe if you bitched about the octane of the gas while bragging
about yer expensive rubber britches, even the more reserved would have beat you
pretty badly, but still, I don't think they'd have actually killed you...

Richard, without a doubt, you are a bigger asshole than Fortenberry.

ot health care
 

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:28:39 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

David LaCourse wrote:
I don't know, but I do know they seem to have to wait longer for certain
procedures. Time was very important in my case. It had to be done NOW
and was. I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

You're just making **** up. You have absolutely no way of knowing
your chances of survival in Canada or the UK because you don't
know diddly about health care in Canada or the UK. But you've
never let ignorance stop you from spouting off your fat mouth
before so why should this time be any different.

You're a great Republican, Louie. Keep up the good work and ...

Carry on.

Um, just out of curiosity, what personal experience do you have with those
health care systems? On what do you base your assertion that he's wrong?

HTH,
R

ot health care
 

On Sep 18, 6:47*am, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-17 21:48:48 -0400, Tim Lysyk said:

Do you think people in Canada or Great Britain do not get to select
their own doctors?

I don't know, but I do know they seem to have to wait longer for
certain procedures. *Time was very important in my case. *It had to be
done NOW and was. *I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

So......um.....Bixby should have stayed here, huh?

Moron.

g.

ot health care
 

On Sep 18, 7:39*am, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:28:39 -0500, Ken Fortenberry

wrote:
David LaCourse wrote:
I don't know, but I do know they seem to have to wait longer for certain
procedures. *Time was very important in my case. *It had to be done NOW
and was. *I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

You're just making **** up. You have absolutely no way of knowing
your chances of survival in Canada or the UK because you don't
know diddly about health care in Canada or the UK. But you've
never let ignorance stop you from spouting off your fat mouth
before so why should this time be any different.

You're a great Republican, Louie. Keep up the good work and ...

Carry on.

Um, just out of curiosity, what personal experience do you have with those
health care systems? *On what do you base your assertion that he's wrong?

Just out of curiosity, what personal experience do you have with
everything? On what do you base your assertion that everybody is
wrong?

Seriously.

g.

ot health care
 

ot health care
 

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:49:28 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
David LaCourse wrote:
I don't know, but I do know they seem to have to wait longer for certain
procedures. Time was very important in my case. It had to be done NOW
and was. I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.
You're just making **** up. You have absolutely no way of knowing
your chances of survival in Canada or the UK because you don't
know diddly about health care in Canada or the UK. But you've
never let ignorance stop you from spouting off your fat mouth
before so why should this time be any different.

You're a great Republican, Louie. Keep up the good work and ...

Carry on.

Um, just out of curiosity, what personal experience do you have with those
health care systems?

I've been to a hospital in Atikokan, Ontario. Other
than that, none.

Um, well, I've been to not only Cape Canaveral, but the Texas, Mississippi AND
Alabama space facilities...I'm not claiming to be Neil Armstrong...and speaking
of outer space, how's the view up Uranus way these days....?

On what do you base your assertion that he's wrong?

Louie's doubts may be baseless but they can't technically
be called "wrong", so I never asserted that he's wrong.

Fair enough. On what do you base your assertion that his doubts are (or may be)
"baseless?"

HTH,
R

ot health care
 

ot health care
 

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:28:53 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
David LaCourse wrote:
... I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.
You're just making **** up. You have absolutely no way of knowing
your chances of survival in Canada or the UK because you don't
know diddly about health care in Canada or the UK.
On what do you base your assertion that he's wrong?
Louie's doubts may be baseless but they can't technically
be called "wrong", so I never asserted that he's wrong.

Fair enough. On what do you base your assertion that his doubts are (or may be)
"baseless?"

I base that assertion on the fact that Louie doesn't know
diddly about health care in Canada or the UK.

And on what do you base your assessment of Louie's knowledge of the health care
in Canada or the UK? And since you admit that you know little about them
yourself, how do you claim to be able to assess Louie's knowledge, even if you
had all the details of his knowledge? I mean, it sounds like you don't know
diddly about, um, well, Louie's diddly, nor does your own diddly function as an
effective measure of his diddly and/or diddlyness, or lack thereof, insofar as
his diddly and/or diddlyness is concerned, or not, as the case may, or may not,
be...

Ya know, Rick, you could save us both a lot of unnecessary
typing if you'd just read my posts carefully the first time.

Well, maybe, but it would save even more if you would read them - hell, screw
"carefully," just sorta glance 'em over - before you send them...

HTH,
R

ot health care
 

In article 2009091807474016807-dplacourse@aolcom, David LaCourse
wrote:

I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

The normally accepted rule of thumb for a country's healthcare is
infant mortality. Afghanistan comes last, and most of the poorest 30 or
so are in Africa.

But the richest country in the world comes an astonishing forty-fourth
from the top. The USA's infant mortality is 6.26 per 1,000 live births,
compared to, say, 2.75 in Sweden, 3.33 in France, 4.25 in Slovenia,
4.85 in the UK, 5.04 in Canada.

Amazingly, the US manages to come even behind Cuba (5.82).

My source for these 2009 figures is that well-known commie outfit, the
CIA.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/rankorder/20
91rank.html

Lazarus

ot health care
 

ot health care
 

Correction

Afghanistan is third worst.

Worst is Angola (180), then Sierra Leone, 154, Afghanistan, 152,
Liberia, 138, and Niger, 117.

I was remembering out-dated statistics.

Lazarus

ot health care
 

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:46:10 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
wrote:
On what do you base your assertion that his doubts are (or may be)
"baseless?"
I base that assertion on the fact that Louie doesn't know
diddly about health care in Canada or the UK.

And on what do you base your assessment of Louie's knowledge of the health care
in Canada or the UK? ...

Louie himself said he has little knowledge of the health care
in Canada or the UK other than "it seems" they have long waiting
times for certain procedures.

No, he said he didn't know if people there got to select their own doctors. Let
me ask you - do people in the US get to select their own doctors? How about
people in Holland, China, Cuba, or Tahiti...?

HTH,
R
....and maybe you ought to try at least skimming those posts that you are going
to comment upon, too...

ot health care
 

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:43:22 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article 2009091807474016807-dplacourse@aolcom, David LaCourse
wrote:

I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

The normally accepted rule of thumb for a country's healthcare is
infant mortality. Afghanistan comes last, and most of the poorest 30 or
so are in Africa.

Um, "normally accepted"...? Would, oh, say, a truck driver from South Korea
whip out this chart when confronted by, oh, say, a architect from Peru over
drinks in Paris, or is it something "normally accepted" by certain
organizations, or ???

But the richest country in the world comes an astonishing forty-fourth
from the top. The USA's infant mortality is 6.26 per 1,000 live births,
compared to, say, 2.75 in Sweden, 3.33 in France, 4.25 in Slovenia,
4.85 in the UK, 5.04 in Canada.

Oh, sure, you rattle off some figures, but how much are eggs in China?

Amazingly, the US manages to come even behind Cuba (5.82).

HOLY ****!! THAT IS AMAZING!! Um....why?

My source for these 2009 figures is that well-known commie outfit, the
CIA.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/rankorder/20
91rank.html

Ah. So, OK, put down Lazarus Cooke under "If the CIA says it, it's true...and
highly significant." Hey, wait a sec - are you just trying to build up brownie
points so you can just glide back to the US and scam some free health care...?
Well, don't try to sneak in any Cubans or they'll cut off your diddly...or any
illegal cigars, either...

Lazarus

HTH,
R

ot health care
 

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:02:02 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

Correction

Afghanistan is third worst.

Worst is Angola (180), then Sierra Leone, 154, Afghanistan, 152,
Liberia, 138, and Niger, 117.

I was remembering out-dated statistics.

Um, remembering the IMR of _every_ country on earth...? I don't care what you
do for a vocation, avocation, or just ****s and grins, you REALLY need to check
into the UK's payment scheme for psychiatric assistance...or see if they'll at
least pay for a bender or two...

HTH,
R
....but, I suppose, it's probably best that you made such a correction - all we
need is Fred, Louie, goatgang, and Steve to get into a 1754 post pillowfight on
whether Angola or Afghanistan sucks the most...by normally-accepted rules of
thumb, anyhoo...



Lazarus

ot health care
 

In article ,
wrote:


Amazingly, the US manages to come even behind Cuba (5.82).

HOLY ****!! THAT IS AMAZING!! Um....why?


I think that it IS amazing.

Since you're a lawyer I'll answer what might be a rhetorical question.

I find it astonishing that of two countries right beside each other,
the rich one, with around $47,000 per head GDP, manages to have a worse
infant mortality rate than the poor one, with around $9,500 per head
GDP. Especially since the rich one regularly castigates the poor one's
government.

What proportion Republican voters do you think would get the right
answer if asked 'In which country has a newborn baby a better chance of
living - USA or Cuba'?

Lazarus

ot health care
 

In article ,
wrote:

Um, remembering the IMR of _every_ country on earth...? I don't care what you
do for a vocation, avocation, or just ****s and grins, you REALLY need to
check
into the UK's payment scheme for psychiatric assistance...or see if they'll at
least pay for a bender or two...

Thanks R. Will follow your helpful advice. ;-)

Lazarus

ot health care
 

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-17 21:48:48 -0400, Tim Lysyk said:

Do you think people in Canada or Great Britain do not get to select
their own doctors?

I don't know, but I do know they seem to have to wait longer for certain
procedures. Time was very important in my case. It had to be done NOW
and was. I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.


You don't know that either.

One of the things that bothers me about the health care debate in the US
is the misrepresentaiton that is made about helath care in other
countries. There is a lot of misrepresentation made. I have heard the
one about picking doctors for years, and the one about waiting times.

There are no waits for urgent care. I had chest pains a few years ago,
and was admitted and treated immediately. My friend was diagnoses with
prostate cancer, and was admitted and treated immediately.

There are waits for elective surgery.

Tim Lysyk.

ot health care
 

Giles wrote:

See, I just do not understand why you Canadians, English, Germans,
etc. must INSIST that you know more about your respective health care
systems than we do! Why, oh WHY can you not simply accept your
comprehensive inferiority and just LISTEN!!??

g.

Silly us. What are we thinking?

I've had thsi happen to me a number of times when travelling to the US.
Typical scenario - I am at a conference wearing a name tag that pretty
much announces I am Canadian. Some one who has no experience with Canada
at all will notice it, and start on me about what a crappy health care
system we have in Canada. They tell me how my taxes are so much higher,
as is my cost of living , and how crappy our national economy is (even
during periods when we had surpkus budgets), etc. etc., all the time
ignoring anything that I might say to the contrary. It is astonishing,
reallly, that we Canadians have been able to survive for so long under
such miserable conditions.

Tim Lysyk

ot health care
 

ot health care
 

On 2009-09-18 08:28:39 -0400, Ken Fortenberry
said:

David LaCourse wrote:
I don't know, but I do know they seem to have to wait longer for
certain procedures. Time was very important in my case. It had to be
done NOW and was. I doubt I would have survived in Canada or GB.

You're just making **** up. You have absolutely no way of knowing
your chances of survival in Canada or the UK because you don't
know diddly about health care in Canada or the UK. But you've
never let ignorance stop you from spouting off your fat mouth
before so why should this time be any different.

You're a great Republican, Louie. Keep up the good work and ...

Carry on.

I lived it, Ken, you didn't. With a Gleason Score over the top, time
was of essence. I talked with folks on a prostate cancer help forum.
Most were not as fortunate as me. Some of them were in Canada and GB
and elsewhere. Some were in the States. Their GS was lower than mine
and yet their doctors failed them - too litte too late. It was not
only curing the cancer, but curing it with the nerve saving technique.

In the summer of 1996, there were only a handful of doctors performing
the nerve-saving technique, and they were all in the good old US of A.
There were men on the help forum that were diagnosed way after I was
and with a lower GS, and they ended up with poor care and advice. They
will wear a diaper the rest of their lives. Not a fun thing to thing
about - die, or wear diapers and never have another erection. When you
have it, and if you have any testosteron you will, I hope you get as
good a set of doctors that I had. Psst, stay close to the States,
especially Baltimore and Boston.

So, thanks, but no thanks. I'll stick with the best care available in
the world, MY doctors. And if your swarmy chicken **** half-breed
changes it, I and many others will be ****ed. Count on a one term
presidency, asshole. And I hope, HOPE,that you get to experience
socialized medicine as your swarmy lying hero wants it. I understand
you are now a sick (literally) man. It would be poetic justice if you
had Obama's care. I had socialiazed medicine for 20 years in the
military and never realized what REAL health care was like until I
retired.

And, it has nothing whatsoever to do with being a Republican, Democrat,
Communist, Veggie, whateverthe****. It's simple: Leave health care
alone.

Now stuff it up your fat ass. I'm going fishing on the Rapid for ten days.

Davey