Sweden Clave
 

I see posts regarding Swedish Clave, have some FF miles
to burn in a worthy pursuit. Destination water and dates
info would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

Jerry Brandenburg

Sweden Clave
 

"Debbie Brandenburg" wrote in message
link.net...
I see posts regarding Swedish Clave, have some FF miles
to burn in a worthy pursuit. Destination water and dates
info would be appreciated.


Jerry,

The place will be some 100 kilometers up the same river Laisan
were we had the Lapland Clave 2003. See http://www.imsoc.se/angler/
and Trip Reports - SWEDISH LAPLAND CLAVE 2003.

The time presumably will be august 2. to august 10.

From Roger you will get more information.

OsmoJ

Sweden Clave
 

"Debbie Brandenburg" wrote in message
link.net...
I see posts regarding Swedish Clave, have some FF miles
to burn in a worthy pursuit. Destination water and dates
info would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

Jerry Brandenburg

Jerry,

The same river as last years clave, river Laisan, only 100 kilometers
further into the mountains. We will rent a Saami cabin located in the area.
The cabin is located 500 meters from the river and has 5 beds, a kitchen and
a sauna. The cabin will do fine as a meeting place and a place for attendes
from far away to live. The rest of us will have to live in a tent. We have
several extra tents. We will all be sharing the cost for the cabin as we
will be using it for a meeting place. The idea is to fish in three waters;
River Laisan (brown trout only), Hurrasjokk creek (brown trout only) and
Blassajaure lake (Arctic char and brown trout). We're not likely to meet any
other people, but in worst case there will still be more than 60 kilometers
of running water and two lakes on the permit (actually two dozen more trout
and char waters if you don't mind walking). We will be flying with a
helicopter from Adolfstrom village. If we can get 10 attendes, the sum total
for this trip (with food, permit and gas costs) leaving from Umea in north
Sweden will be approx US$350. You will have to plan for a week since we
won't be able to have the helicopter fly back and forth at will. August 2 -
August 10. If three or more can decide on other dates then you should be
able to share a helicopter and make it anything in between these dates.

Attendees so far:

Vaughan Hurry (Tent)
Fred Risberg (Tent)
Roger Ohlund (Tent)
Jarmo Hurri (Tent)
Jerome Phillipon (aka Leaping frog, gets a bed in the cabin)
Myron Buck (aka riverman, gets a bed in the cabin)
Erik Risberg (Tent)
Mike Connor (Tent)

Interested:
Dave LaCourse
Osmo Jauhiainen
Hans Bock
Jeff Miller
John (asadi)

If you want more information go to the web site and find my email under
contact info.

Here are some maps describing the area.

Map1 shows where in Sweden we're going to be:
http://biphome.spray.se/salmo/ROFF/clave2004/Map1.jpg

Map2 shows where the road ends at Adolfstrom village and also where the
clave central is:
http://biphome.spray.se/salmo/ROFF/clave2004/Map2.jpg
The flight will be just less than 20 kilometers.

Map3 shows the clave central and the surrounding area.
http://biphome.spray.se/salmo/ROFF/clave2004/Map3.jpg
The distance from the cabin to the river is slightly more than 500 meters.
There's a fresh water spring 20 meters from the cabin.
The lake just north of the cabin holds Arctic char and brown trout.

--
/ Roger
Daytime engineer
Lifetime fly fisherman
If you feel like it, visit http://www.imsoc.se/angler/ for info on fly
fishing in northern Sweden, Lapland,
or visit http://www.imsoc.se/ffgallery/ , the fly fishermen's gallery.

Sweden Clave
 

"Osmo Jauhiainen" wrote in message
...

"Debbie Brandenburg" wrote in message
link.net...
I see posts regarding Swedish Clave, have some FF miles
to burn in a worthy pursuit. Destination water and dates
info would be appreciated.


Jerry,

The place will be some 100 kilometers up the same river Laisan
were we had the Lapland Clave 2003. See http://www.imsoc.se/angler/
and Trip Reports - SWEDISH LAPLAND CLAVE 2003.

The time presumably will be august 2. to august 10.

From Roger you will get more information.


The TR - "Somewhere in Swedish Lapland" was from the exact same area that
the Lapland clave 2004 will take place.
(It was supposed to be a secret, but what the hell ;-))

/Roger

Sweden Clave
 

"Roger Ohlund" wrote in message
...


The TR - "Somewhere in Swedish Lapland" was from the exact same area that
the Lapland clave 2004 will take place.
(It was supposed to be a secret, but what the hell ;-))


Secret! Hah! I've got the exact coordinates of the cabin already!

OsmoJ

Sweden Clave
 

Roger Ohlund writes:

Interested:
Dave LaCourse
Osmo Jauhiainen
Hans Bock
Jeff Miller
John (asadi)

Roger, please add my name to the attendees. God and Iceland Air willing, I'll
be there.

I have lots of questions - so be prepared on the ride from Boston to Penns
Clave. d;o)
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Sweden Clave
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Roger Ohlund writes:

Interested:
Dave LaCourse
Osmo Jauhiainen
Hans Bock
Jeff Miller
John (asadi)

Roger, please add my name to the attendees. God and Iceland Air willing,
I'll
be there.

I have lots of questions - so be prepared on the ride from Boston to Penns
Clave. d;o)
Dave


Your will be done!
Doesn't it strike you as a complete waste to have to stop on Iceland and
then not have enough time to fish?

/Roger
I'll prepare, and who knows, I might even be able to answer..............
;-)

Sweden Clave
 

Roger writes:

Doesn't it strike you as a complete waste to have to stop on Iceland and
then not have enough time to fish?

The thought has passed through my little brain, but I understand you have to
have all of your equipment sanitized because of whirling disease. Seems a
bother.

I made it onto someone's mailing list, probably from one of the local fly
shows, and I get a calendar and literature from a fishing club in Iceland. The
airfare is inexpensive, but the facilities were on the expensive side. Maybe
some day.......
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Sweden Clave
 

Hi Roger,

please remove my name from the list.

TL
MC

Sweden Clave
 

"Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote in message
s.com...
Hi Roger,

please remove my name from the list.

TL
MC


OK!
Sorry to hear that Mike.

/Roger

Sweden Clave
 

Mike please remove my name from the list.

Scheiße!

--
Jarmo Hurri

Spam countermeasures included. Drop your brain when replying, or just
use .

Sweden Clave
 

Mike Connor writes:

Hi Roger,

please remove my name from the list.

Is it coincidental that you take this action right after I confirm that I will
be at the clave? If so, Mike, you should not let my attendance sway your
decision. I have attended many claves with folks that I don't particularly
like, but none that I hate, and have always had a good time. Give it further
thought, please.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Sweden Clave
 

"Dave LaCourse" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Mike Connor writes:

Hi Roger,

please remove my name from the list.

Is it coincidental that you take this action right after I confirm that I
will
be at the clave? If so, Mike, you should not let my attendance sway your
decision. I have attended many claves with folks that I don't
particularly
like, but none that I hate, and have always had a good time. Give it
further
thought, please.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html


No, it is not coincidental. Welcome to reality dumbo. It might only be
Usenet, but everything you write on here affects others in some way or
another, and they are real people. If you behave in a foolish, mean, or
dishonest fashion, or engage in gratuitous personal attacks for whatever
arcane reasons of your own, it affects others perceptions of you as well. I
have no wish to even meet you, let alone fish with you. It would be entirely
too unpleasant. Fortunately, I can decide with whom I fish or socialise, as
I see fit, and I would not be so hypocritical as to do it with somebody I
did not like, or had a very bad impression of.

For the record, I do not hate anybody, and never have. It would be an
entirely pointless and doubtless self-destructive exercise.

MC

Sweden Clave
 

Mike Connor writes:

bunch snipped

I guess that means you're not going to go. Ok with me. Enjoy.

Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Sweden Clave
 

Mike Connor wrote:

"Dave LaCourse" wrote:

Is it coincidental ...

No, it is not coincidental. Welcome to reality dumbo. ...

Good grief, you were willing to fish with Jeffie Miller and he's
at least five, six times as ugly as Louie and a freakin' divorce
lawyer to boot !!

I've fished with both of 'em, and in the main they're pretty good
company, all things considered. I mean Jeffie's a nut who wants to
fish 24/7 and Louie's a bottom dredging bobber user, but they're
both worthy of a bit of whatever camaraderie you claim to possess.

IMHO, of course. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Sweden Clave
 

"Ken Fortenberry" schrieb im
Newsbeitrag gy.com...
Mike Connor wrote:

"Dave LaCourse" wrote:

Is it coincidental ...

No, it is not coincidental. Welcome to reality dumbo. ...

Good grief, you were willing to fish with Jeffie Miller and he's
at least five, six times as ugly as Louie and a freakin' divorce
lawyer to boot !!

I've fished with both of 'em, and in the main they're pretty good
company, all things considered. I mean Jeffie's a nut who wants to
fish 24/7 and Louie's a bottom dredging bobber user, but they're
both worthy of a bit of whatever camaraderie you claim to possess.

IMHO, of course. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Your opinion might be a great number of things, but humble it is not. ( Or
was that "Honest"?).

I would fish with Jeff Miller. In fact, I would be grateful for the
opportunity, (and there are others here, of whom I think the same), and I
would be honoured to have him as a guest in my home. I would "even" (
actually I would probably enjoy it) fish with you, knowing perfectly well
that you are an impossible arsehole. ( Hopefully you keep your "Schandmaul"
shut when you are fishing at least, not that that would bother me much
either:)): I have never known you to be dishonest. A bit ( a lot!) "over the
top" occasionally, but I don´t mind that. That´s how you are.

I have never claimed to possess, or be, anything at all. If you don´t like
it, then **** your rotten luck. I am what I am.

Mr. LaCourse unfortunately tends to hang his flag in whatever direction the
wind happens to be blowing, and is occasionally amazingly ****ing stupid to
boot. You are often an arsehole, ( Mostly in fact. Probably the result of
long and arduous practice.), but I have not yet seen you being particularly
stupid ( unless one views "arseholeness" as stupidity per se). Quite the
reverse.

I get the impression that a lot of you don´t take much of this seriously at
all, it is all a big ****ing joke, and not important at all., ( It´s only
Usenet!).For some of us it is. We take it seriously , and expect to be taken
seriously in return. It may even be a "Europe/America" thing. In the
meantime, I really don´t know.

For instance, I have thought a lot about Mark Bowen recently, he is more
than likely devastated at the turn of events here. Most unfortunate. I will
bet you a pound to a pinch of pig**** that he is bewildered, and injured.
Although that may well have not been your, or anybody else´s, real
intenion.

Whatever, I do what I do, and think what I think. If you don´t like it,
well, that´s tough, but mainly for you.

When I fish, I don´t need any company, but if I have any, then it should be
congenial. My attitude to ROFF is much the same. I don´t need any
aggravation, that is not why I am here, but if anybody really wants some, I
am usually more than willing to oblige, up to a point at least, beyond
which, things merely become silly.

Finally , there is no way I am going to drive a couple of thousand
kilometers, merely to be confronted with some dumb arsehole who went out of
his way to annoy me. I would not do it if you paid me.

If people can´t behave themselves on here, then it is most unlikely that
they will behave themselves anywhere else.

I have no wish to discover first hand if that is so, and the unpleasantness
which has already occurred, effectively prevents me from even making the
attempt.

TL
MC

Sweden Clave
 

Mike Connor wrote:

No, it is not coincidental. Welcome to reality dumbo.

Bipolar Mike Connor has entered the "dumbo" phase.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Sweden Clave
 

"Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote in message
s.com...

"Dave LaCourse" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Mike Connor writes:

Hi Roger,

please remove my name from the list.

Is it coincidental that you take this action right after I confirm that
I
will
be at the clave? If so, Mike, you should not let my attendance sway
your
decision. I have attended many claves with folks that I don't
particularly
like, but none that I hate, and have always had a good time. Give it
further
thought, please.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html


No, it is not coincidental.

Alas, I ended up with two less clavesters.
Dave declined yesterday and Mike hours before that.
You guys....., ever heard of the fact that Sweden is a neutral country?
In any case, I'm saddened that this came to be.
I will meet with Dave (looking forward to it) in May and hopefully I can
persuade you Mike to reconsider the Lapland clave, equally looking forward
to an opportunity to meet with you Mike.

/Roger

Sweden Clave
 

"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
m...
Mike Connor wrote:

No, it is not coincidental. Welcome to reality dumbo.

Bipolar Mike Connor has entered the "dumbo" phase.

You really are a silly man, and not worth the effort involved in trying to
make sensible replies to a load of rubbish. Carry on stirring the **** if it
pleases you, it wont do you any good.

MC

Sweden Clave
 

"Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote in message
s.com...
Hi Roger,

please remove my name from the list.

TL
MC

Rats, Mike. Sorry to hear that Dave's potential presence might keep you
away. Consider that the overwhelming majority of people at the clave are
your friends, and will sorely notice your absence. :-(

--riverman

Sweden Clave
 

"riverman" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
Rats, Mike. Sorry to hear that Dave's potential presence might keep you
away. Consider that the overwhelming majority of people at the clave are
your friends, and will sorely notice your absence. :-(

--riverman



Most unfortunate I agree. Even though Mr. LaCourse has apparently decided
not to attend, I still can not do so, as it would now be a shabby thing to
do. It would appear that I "forced" him to pull out. These things
overshadow and poison everything.

Bloody nuisance as well, as I already bought a tent and one or two other
things. Serves me right for being too precipitate. I ought to know better by
now. Doubtless the kids down the road will have fun with the stuff. I gave
it to them this morning, and they were very enthusiastic.

Indeed, as a result of events here, I will never attend another ROFF clave,
irrespective of location or opportunity. I simply would not feel
comfortable. Too much has been said. There is no way I would fish with
people who have wilfully denigrated, insulted, and annoyed me, and fishing
with others who have heard all this would not be exactly pleasant either.
Some of the mud invariably sticks, no matter what one does. I even get
people asking about it on other boards. All this basically stems from Gehrke
of course. His legacy, as it were. He really did a fine job of contaminating
this place.

I don´t wish people to think that I am "bringing pressure to bear"on
clavers, or anything like that, I just don´t want to do it any more, and
that is the end of that. My house is always open to any civil person who
would like to fish with me, or tie flies, or build rods, have a drink and a
natter, etc etc. But it is not open to dumb arseholes, and I have no wish
to meet them elsewhere either.

Perhaps some people will learn from this, that what they do here is indeed
real, and affects real people in a real world.

In the meantime, I have become inured to the barracking from various
quarters on here. It seems my severest "crime", which my apparently
cretinous opponents, incapable as they are of even remotely civil discourse,
bring up at every opportunity, is leaving ROFF, and then returning!

They would not recognise ethics or honesty if it bit them in the rear, as it
invariably will. Every post I send annoys them even more it seems. Good!
Serves them right. I hope to be here for a very long time yet, so they
better get used to it.

TL
MC

Sweden Clave
 

Mike Connor wrote:


I would fish with Jeff Miller. In fact, I would be grateful for the
opportunity, (and there are others here, of whom I think the same), and I
would be honoured to have him as a guest in my home.

thanks for the kind words and the invitation... of course, since i gave
daytripper the "opportunity" to fish with me and pj on upper creek he
hasn't seemed too enthusiastic about attempting a second.

.... i regret i got all wadded up within the context of disagreements
with others (whose company i have enjoyed). still, i look forward to our
fishing trip, whenever and wherever it might occur. have you ever fished
in ireland or scotland?

jeff

Sweden Clave
 

"Jeff Miller" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:TcQPb.6228$_H5.1726@lakeread06...
SNIP
thanks for the kind words and the invitation... of course, since i gave
daytripper the "opportunity" to fish with me and pj on upper creek he
hasn't seemed too enthusiastic about attempting a second.

... i regret i got all wadded up within the context of disagreements
with others (whose company i have enjoyed). still, i look forward to our
fishing trip, whenever and wherever it might occur. have you ever fished
in ireland or scotland?

jeff


Yes, I have fished in Ireland and Scotland, and all over England as well. I
have also fished quite a few places here in Europe, but nowadays, inasmuch
as I have been fishing at all in the last couple of years, it has been in
Denmark, Sweden, a few local rivers, and the Baltic Sea.

Right now, I am considering selling up here, and moving to Ireland, or
Wales, or perhaps even Denmark. Although nothing is finally decided. Have
to do a lot more research first. I only came to Germany in the first place
because of my wife, and there is nothing much keeping me here now.

Over the years, one accumulates an incredible amount of "stuff". No idea
what I would do with most of it, Have to give or throw it away I suppose,
and I would lose a lot of money as a result. Property prices are also not
exactly brilliant here right now either, and my house would not bring any
vast sum.

Also, although often lonely of course, and the fishing not exactly
brilliant, I am pretty comfortable here. I have all the usual creature
comforts, and it is very hard to make the decision to start anew somewhere
else.

Still considering.

Wherever I end up, you would be most welcome.

TL
MC

Sweden Clave
 

"Charlie Choc" schrieb im
Newsbeitrag ...
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:55:11 GMT, "Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote:

Still considering.

Good luck to you whatever you decide, Mike.
--
Charlie...

Thanks Charlie.

TL
MC

Sweden Clave
 

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:55:11 GMT, "Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote:

Still considering.

Good luck to you whatever you decide, Mike.
--
Charlie...

Sweden Clave
 

"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
m...
SNIP
If it's any help, I'm definitely not going to the Swedish Clave.


No help at all, but of course that was to be expected.

Don´t you have anything at all positive or sensible to say? Must be awful.

Good luck to you anyway.

MC

Sweden Clave
 

Mike Connor wrote:
"Charlie Choc" schrieb im
Newsbeitrag ...

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:55:11 GMT, "Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote:


Still considering.


Good luck to you whatever you decide, Mike.
--
Charlie...

If it's any help, I'm definitely not going to the Swedish Clave.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Sweden Clave
 

Jeff Miller wrote:

... i regret i got all wadded up within the context of disagreements
with others (whose company i have enjoyed). ...

That was my fault, but of all the announced attendees of the Lapland
'Clave you, Louie and John are the only ones whose camarderie I can
personally vouch for. Guilt by association, I guess. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Sweden Clave
 

"Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote in message
s.com...

Over the years, one accumulates an incredible amount of "stuff".

Hee hee.
Having seen your house, I would vote that particular comment as the
understatement of the century.....

--riverman
There's stuff, and then there's STUFF.

Sweden Clave
 

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:49:16 +0100, "riverman"
wrote:

Hee hee.
Having seen your house, I would vote that particular comment as the
understatement of the century.....

Seriously. g
--
Charlie...

Sweden Clave
 

Mike Connor wrote:

I am pretty comfortable here. I have all the usual creature
comforts, and it is very hard to make the decision to start anew somewhere
else.

Still considering.

Wherever I end up, you would be most welcome.



when i was younger, before buying a home, i enjoyed and even looked
forward to changing residences every few years. i found it invigorating
(esp. the packing and hauling g). admittedly, my moves did not involve
significant geography, certainly nothing like you've contemplated.
ironically, now that i'm relatively and selfishly certain of a place i'd
like to live the remainder of my years, i'm unable to move to that place
because of circumstances i cannot control or avoid. the move would be
most uncomfortable and uncertain, but i think that is part of the
adventure.

anyway, given your perceptive and capable nature, i've no doubt you will
succeed in being comfortable in any surroundings you choose.

likewise, i hope you know you'll have a friend's welcome if you ever
decide to venture to this side of the atlantic.

in any event, i mentioned scotland because a friend suggested it as a
place he'd want to go fishing. after looking at some of the scotland
streams, lochs, and landscapes on the web, i had a wild thought of
fishing over there. looks pleasant. but, it's likely just another of
this old man's picaresque fantasies...

jeff

jeff

Sweden Clave
 

Jeff Miller wrote:

in any event, i mentioned scotland because a friend suggested it as a
place he'd want to go fishing. after looking at some of the scotland
streams, lochs, and landscapes on the web, i had a wild thought of
fishing over there. looks pleasant. but, it's likely just another of
this old man's picaresque fantasies...


jeff, PJ in a kilt dun qualify as a fantasy...

wally

Sweden Clave
 

Mike Connor wrote:

Don´t you have anything at all positive or sensible to say? Must be awful.

A reasonable man has the humility to be open to others' opinions.

Good luck to you anyway.

And to you. I think you'll need it more than I.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Sweden Clave
 

Von:rw )
Betrifft: Sweden Clave


View this article only
Newsgroups:rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
Datum:2004-01-23 03:32:53 PST


Mike Connor wrote:

Don´t you have anything at all positive or sensible to say? Must be
awful.

A reasonable man has the humility to be open to others' opinions.

Good luck to you anyway.

And to you. I think you'll need it more than I.

--

My most humble apologies, I was not aware that you were expressing an
opinion, or even that you had one.

Why do I get the feeling that your good wishes are insincere? Probably a
result of my outrageous unreasonableness.

Regarding humility:

"What kills a skunk is the publicity it gives itself". ~Abraham Lincoln

"The humbleness of a warrior is not the humbleness of the beggar. The
warrior lowers his head to no one, but at the same time, he doesn't permit
anyone to lower his head to him. The beggar, on the other hand, falls to his
knees at the drop of a hat and scrapes the floor to anyone he deems to be
higher; but at the same time, he demands that someone lower than him scrape
the floor for him." ~ Carlos Castaneda

Excessive Humility is a sign of a scoundrel. ~ Hindu proverb

If man makes himself a worm he must not complain when he is trodden on. ~
Immanuel Kant


From William Wordsworth
Written in Early Spring

I heard a thousand blended notes
While in a grove I sate reclined,
In that sweet mood when pleasant thoughts
Bring sad thoughts to the mind.

To her fair works did Nature link
The human soul that through me ran;
And much it grieved my heart to think
What Man has made of Man.

Through primrose tufts, in that sweet bower,
The periwinkle trail'd its wreaths;
And 'tis my faith that every flower
Enjoys the air it breathes.

The birds around me hopp'd and play'd,
Their thoughts I cannot measure,-
But the least motion which they made
It seem'd a thrill of pleasure.

The budding twigs spread out their fan
To catch the breezy air;
And I must think, do all I can,
That there was pleasure there.

If this belief from heaven be sent,
If such be Nature's holy plan,
Have I not reason to lament
What Man has made of Man?

TL
MC

Sweden Clave
 

Mike Connor wrote:

...
Regarding humility: ...

"Early in life I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical
humility. I chose the former and have seen no reason to change."
-Frank Lloyd Wright-

--
Ken Fortenberry

Sweden Clave
 

Humility is the embarrasssment you feel when you tell people *how wonderful you
are*.
Author unknown

Sweden Clave
 

"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
m...

It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations. …

Indubitably, but how is he going to do it?

Was that another of your opinions?

MC

Sweden Clave
 

On 23 Jan 2004 17:03:13 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Humility is the embarrasssment you feel

--
Charlie...

Sweden Clave
 

"Dave LaCourse" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Humility is the embarrasssment you feel when you tell people *how
wonderful you
are*.
Author unknown


I suppose you are feeling a bit ****ed off about the whole thing, as am I.
It was nevertheless an excellent illustration of how events here, affect
events and people elsewhere.

Before all Roger´s extremely excellent work is dragged down, or these clave
threads hijacked any further, to no good purpose, that is definitely EOT for
me on this.

MC

Sweden Clave
 

On 23 Jan 2004 17:03:13 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Humility is the embarrasssment you feel when you tell people *how wonderful you
are*.
Author unknown

Laurence Peter.
--
Charlie...