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Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
To anyone from Pennsylvania, partiularly the southeast portion of the state.
I was just out fishing on the Delayed Harvest ALO section of the Tulpehocken when a gentlemen approched me and we struck up a convesation. He informed me that he was a member of the loacl chapter of trout unlimited and that the PA Fish & Boat commission was proposing changesing the reulations of the stream to allow the use of bait during the period of time. Such a change would be disasterous to the resident population of fish. Every other stream or lake with trout in it in this area is basicly fished out during the spring trout season, because most of the guys around here are only interested in catching as many keepers as they can. The Tulpehocken is the one place where most of the fishing pressure is from guys interested in catch and release. If any of you are intersted in preserving this fishery and its current regulation, please let the PA F&BC how you feel. |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
I fish the Little Lehigh and Lehigh, among others in the Lehigh Valley
(redundant?). I drive 5+ hours from Upstate NY to do so. Education is the key. A snelled hook with worm, corn, or bread with kill a fish. Teach the bait fisherman to pinch barbs and use methods that hook lips rather than gills is the key. Perhaps a mandatory fisherman safety course (like hunter saftey) would be in order nationwide? "G. M. Zimmermann" wrote in message ... To anyone from Pennsylvania, partiularly the southeast portion of the state. I was just out fishing on the Delayed Harvest ALO section of the Tulpehocken when a gentlemen approched me and we struck up a convesation. He informed me that he was a member of the loacl chapter of trout unlimited and that the PA Fish & Boat commission was proposing changesing the reulations of the stream to allow the use of bait during the period of time. Such a change would be disasterous to the resident population of fish. Every other stream or lake with trout in it in this area is basicly fished out during the spring trout season, because most of the guys around here are only interested in catching as many keepers as they can. The Tulpehocken is the one place where most of the fishing pressure is from guys interested in catch and release. If any of you are intersted in preserving this fishery and its current regulation, please let the PA F&BC how you feel. |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Ok, here I go again.......
GM Zimmerman writes: Fish & Boat commission was proposing changesing the reulations of the stream to allow the use of bait during the period of time. Such a change would be disasterous to the resident population of fish. see prior post: "A Plea for Help". Beyond that, let me say merely...bull****! Every other stream or lake with trout in it in this area is basicly fished out during the spring trout season, because most of the guys around here are only interested in catching as many keepers as they can. really? I fish at least 5 or 6 other Berks county streams, and on all of them, have caught trout in February and in August. None have restrictive regulations, you just have to know what you are doing. he Tulpehocken is the one place where most of the fishing pressure is from guys interested in catch and release. won't argue that, but doesn't make the Tully a superior stream.....not that I would name any in the county better, but several have substantial streambred populations, despite regs and stocking. Tom |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"just al" wrote in message ... ...A snelled hook with worm, corn, or bread with kill a fish. Lemme guess.....you really don't have a ****ing clue what the adjective "snelled" means, do you? Teach the bait fisherman to pinch barbs and use methods that hook lips rather than gills is the key. Perhaps a mandatory fisherman safety course (like hunter saftey) would be in order nationwide? Well, wherever you live would probably be a good place to start. Wolfgang so, why can't johnny read? |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Are they also planning on requiring circle hooks to be used with the bait?
California DF&G is starting to require circle hooks when bait fishing in some salmon fisheries. CA DF&G claims circle hooks have far less mortality than regular bait hooks. I haven't seen any studies that support circle hooks. Good luck! John "G. M. Zimmermann" wrote in message ... To anyone from Pennsylvania, partiularly the southeast portion of the state. I was just out fishing on the Delayed Harvest ALO section of the Tulpehocken when a gentlemen approched me and we struck up a convesation. He informed me that he was a member of the loacl chapter of trout unlimited and that the PA Fish & Boat commission was proposing changesing the reulations of the stream to allow the use of bait during the period of time. Such a change would be disasterous to the resident population of fish. Every other stream or lake with trout in it in this area is basicly fished out during the spring trout season, because most of the guys around here are only interested in catching as many keepers as they can. The Tulpehocken is the one place where most of the fishing pressure is from guys interested in catch and release. If any of you are intersted in preserving this fishery and its current regulation, please let the PA F&BC how you feel. |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"John Lindsey" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... Are they also planning on requiring circle hooks to be used with the bait? California DF&G is starting to require circle hooks when bait fishing in some salmon fisheries. CA DF&G claims circle hooks have far less mortality than regular bait hooks. I haven't seen any studies that support circle hooks. Good luck! John Circle hooks were specifically devised for longline fishing, in order to guarantee a mortality rate of 100%. They actually come close. TL MC |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Circle hooks were specifically devised for longline fishing, in order to guarantee a mortality rate of 100%. They actually come close. Perhaps you are thinking of something else? A quick google returned: http://home.att.net/~sarasotadon/circle-hook.htm http://www.ccact.org/circle_hooks.htm http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries...onal/crsb.html http://www.floridamarine.org/feature...e.asp?id=20414 |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"Wayne Knight" schrieb im Newsbeitrag .com... "Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Circle hooks were specifically devised for longline fishing, in order to guarantee a mortality rate of 100%. They actually come close. Perhaps you are thinking of something else? A quick google returned: http://home.att.net/~sarasotadon/circle-hook.htm http://www.ccact.org/circle_hooks.htm http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries...onal/crsb.html http://www.floridamarine.org/feature...e.asp?id=20414 Nope, do a search on "Longline hooks", or "Circle Longline Hooks". Apart from which, I used them for a while. For some fly-fishing. Practically all the fish I caught ( predominantly cod) ,were hooked in the throat, and impossible to release unharmed. The main reason for commercial fishermen using the circle hooks was that the fish was less likely to bleed, and consequently did not die on the line. A dead fish which may have been dead for a while, is not worth as much as live fish which can be freshly killed. These hooks were used on stationary unmanned lines. Quite a few studies have shown that the mortality rate on the lines when using such hooks is very low when compared to "J" hooks. This is true. The hook up and hold rates are also much higher, which in a commercial fishery means more dead fish. Many fish which would have escpaed from "J" hooks, are unable to escape from circle hooks. Owing to the jaw, lip and scissor hooking, ( thought to be as high as 95% in many cases and species), the fish does not bleed, and does not die quite so quickly on the unamnned line. Also, hook removal is facilitated. The properties are explained here quite well; http://www.stripersurf.com/circlehooks.html Some other interesting bits and pieces; http://www.sarasota-fla-fishing.com/circle.html For most active fly-fishing, these hooks are quite useless. They do not depend on the skill of an angler to set the hook. They depend on the fish moving away with the bait, and this usually causes a lip or scissor hook up. Any action on the part of the angler, apart from slowly tightening the line as the fish moves away will either cause the fish to eject the hook, or result in a bad hookup, in the throat etc. Some species of fish ( like Cod) tend to engulf their prey, and basically suck it down into their gullets. When they move, they are hooked in the gullet. For stationary, or "dead drift" fishing with either flies or bait, these hooks are incredibly efficient. This is however not really fly-fishing, it is more like trap setting. Which is precisely what the hooks were designed for. Sport anglers using such hooks will most certainly cause less fish mortality, for several reasons. If they move the hook, they either lose the fish, or hook it badly. Usually they will just lose it, although this depnds on the feeding habits of the species involved. If they donīt move the hook, the fish hooks itself, and usually in the lip, jaw or scissors. This is then easy to release undamaged. Most types of fly-fishing depend on the angler applying motion to the fly. This will not work with circle hooks. If the angler may not move the fly, then about 90% of flyfishing is no longer flyfishing as such, but more or less the same as bait fishing. TL MC |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Lemme guess.....you really don't have a ****ing clue what the adjective "snelled" means, do you? I think snelled means to have a pre-tied thinner line tied to a hook before tying it to the line. |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"just al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... I think snelled means to have a pre-tied thinner line tied to a hook before tying it to the line. Itīs not, itīs a knot. http://www.marinews.com/fishing/Knot...k_hooksnel.htm A snelled hook, is a hook attached to a piece of line using this knot. TL MC |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Itīs not, itīs a knot.
http://www.marinews.com/fishing/Knot...k_hooksnel.htm A snelled hook, is a hook attached to a piece of line using this knot. Shoot. I used this as my source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=snells Am I still top posting? |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"Mike Connor" wrote in message ... Nope, do a search on "Longline hooks", or "Circle Longline Hooks". Apart from which, I used them for a while. For some fly-fishing. Practically all the fish I caught ( predominantly cod) ,were hooked in the throat, and impossible to release unharmed. The main reason for commercial fishermen using the circle hooks was that the fish was less likely to bleed, and consequently did not die on the line. A dead fish which may have been dead for a while, is not worth as much as live fish which can be freshly killed. Which going back to your statement which formed the basis for my question- "Circle hooks were specifically devised for longline fishing, in order to guarantee a mortality rate of 100%. They actually come close" Seems to me if they were designed to keep fish alive on long lines (which my posted links agreed with) that would not guarantee a mortality rate of 100%? I think the post you responded to initially was regarding use of live bait on circle hooks and not flies. Based on limited reading and understanding, they don't sound appropriate for artificial lures of any type, especially flies which agains supports your thesis. Or perhaps we have two people speaking the same language not understanding each other? Like that's never happened around here, ya know? |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
just al wrote:
... Am I still top posting? No, and thanks for asking. There may be hope for you after all. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Nope. :-)
just al wrote: Am I still top posting? -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"just al" wrote in message ... Lemme guess.....you really don't have a ****ing clue what the adjective "snelled" means, do you? I think snelled means to have a pre-tied thinner line tied to a hook before tying it to the line. I see that others have already addressed the problem of definition. That leaves us with just one more burning question to be answered. What do you suppose are the odds that an UNsnelled hook "...with worm, corn, or bread..." will kill a fish? Wolfgang enquiring minds and all that. |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"Wayne Knight" schrieb im Newsbeitrag .com... SNIP Or perhaps we have two people speaking the same language not understanding each other? Like that's never happened around here, ya know? Indeed possible! :) It is quite immaterial whether one uses bait, or flies. The principles are exactly the same. Whatever, the use of circle hooks on unmanned longlines increases fish mortality considerably, because a much larger number of fish are hooked and held alive, to be eventually killed. This is a commercial operation, they want to catch as many fish as possible. The hooks work only too well. In the two seasons I tried them regularly for cod fishing, once I got the technique down, I did not miss a single fish which took the stationary lure. As I also wrote, most of these fish were hooked deep in the gullet. To be perfectly fair, this was also probably also a result of the type of lure I was using, which invariably results in such "engulfing" takes,even among trout and other fish. The lure in question is known as a "booby", and is unusual in that it is fished as a stationary lure. These hooks reign supreme for any type of stationary bait fishing. The fish do not have a chance. If they take the stationary bait and move off, they are hooked. Fortunately, circle hooks below about a size 12 cease to work any more, as the hook gape is then too small to allow a hook-up. Otherwise, dead drifting nymph fishermen using these hooks would clean up. No need for an indicator, no need for any skill at all really. Just cast the fly out and let it drift. Practically every fish which takes will be hooked. One merely has to wait until one feels a fish moving off. My basic point was, that these hooks resulted in much greater efficiency, and thus a greater fish mortality rate. As the considerably increased numbers of hooked fish were of course killed. The ease of hook removal, when the hooks do their job properly and hook lips, jaws, or scissors, is a commercial advantage, as it saves time and effort, which translates directly to money. The people using these things could not care less whether the fish is damaged or killed really, they merely want to catch a large number and unhook and kill them quickly. This is in my opinion the antithesis of sportfishing, most especially flyfishing. That these hooks could play a role in reducing the mortality of fish caught by bait fishermen is definitely true, but also extremely unlikely, as the majority of the bait fishermen are there because they want to catch and kill the fish. It is also theoretically true that flyfishermen who wish to practice catch and release would also damage far fewer fish, but not in the way that many people seem to think. They would do less damage, assuming they continued to use the present methods, because they would then catch very few fish. If they changed their methods, as has also been suggested, to suit the peculiarities of circle hooks, then they will merely be baitfishing with flies. It occurs to me that this is rather a vicious circle! :) TL MC |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Wolfgang
What do you suppose are the odds that an UNsnelled hook "...with worm, corn, or bread..." will kill a fish? I suppose you already know the answer. You know, I can help you with your bullying issues. I have training with helping aggressive at-risk students succeed and feel positive. There's no hugging involved... |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"just al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP Shoot. I used this as my source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=snells Am I still top posting? I did not need a source. The word was in common usage where I lived as a boy. The main reason for snelling hooks, is the direct pull, and strength which results. This only works with the correct knot. In the meantime many people think that a snelled hook is a hook tied to a piece of line. This is incorrect, it is a hook tied to a piece of line using a snell knot, which ensures a direct pull on the hook, and when properly tied, retains close to 100% of the line breaking strain. This is the knot favoured by most English competition anglers, especially for very fine nylon monofilament, and almost universally in combination with spade end hooks. The website is also incorrect in saying that the snell knot may only be tied by passing both ends of the line through the eye. Spade end hooks do not have eyes. It also has nothing at all to do with the attachment being "quick and simple", as stated on the website at the URL I posted, it is in fact nothing of the kind. Snelling hooks properly is actually quite difficult. This is also the main reason why it is not done on the river bank for instance, but at home in comfort. The snelled hooks are usually attached by a loop to the main line, which also allows for quick changes to different sized or shaped hooks to suit various baits, fish and conditions. It is often the case that the snelled line is weaker than the main line, but this is not essentially so. The site was merely the first one I found which showed the snell knot. Are you asking me if you are still top posting? I have no idea. But not in this instance at any rate. TL MC |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:39:30 GMT, "just al"
wrote: You know, I can help you with your bullying issues. I have training with helping aggressive at-risk students succeed and feel positive. There's no hugging involved... Hilarious. g -- Charlie... |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
just al wrote:
You know, I can help you with your bullying issues. I have training with helping aggressive at-risk students succeed and feel positive. There's no hugging involved... It's just an Internet thing with Wolfgang. In person, he's a perfect sweetheart. :-) -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"rw" wrote in message . .. just al wrote: You know, I can help you with your bullying issues. I have training with helping aggressive at-risk students succeed and feel positive. There's no hugging involved... It's just an Internet thing with Wolfgang. In person, he's a perfect sweetheart. :-) true, dat! as they say in the urban black communities where none of us ever go. wayno |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
rw wrote:
just al wrote: You know, I can help you with your bullying issues. I have training with helping aggressive at-risk students succeed and feel positive. There's no hugging involved... It's just an Internet thing with Wolfgang. In person, he's a perfect sweetheart. :-) If you could've seen that guy, Wolfie, skillfully afoot, in the presence of the glorious Lana, just over a year ago....., well, a true master. Smoove and cleaver...why she was absolutely besmirched. I could see the coalescence of the force....the genesis of the species was in sight......and, then, Jeffie walked into the pool hall and the time-space continuum was set asunder. Forever. The remembrance still stirs, but penicillin has helped...... Tom |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"a-happy-up-yours" wrote but penicillin has helped...... Tom the only thing penicillin can't whip is cheryl crow. yfitp wayno |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Very interesting points, Mike. Thanks for the info.
You said: To be perfectly fair, this was also probably also a result of the type of lure I was using, which invariably results in such "engulfing" takes,even among trout and other fish. The lure in question is known as a "booby", and is unusual in that it is fished as a stationary lure. Please describe this "booby." Fortunately, circle hooks below about a size 12 cease to work any more, as the hook gape is then too small to allow a hook-up. Agree! I am experimenting with Mustad Ultrapoint Circle hooks 39951 tying popping bugs on sizes 1/0, 1 and 2 and even then the gap is very, very small! These hooks are not offset. If they were offset, they might work better. Just cast the fly out and let it drift. Practically every fish which takes will be hooked. One merely has to wait until one feels a fish moving off. So far this has not happened to me while using these hooks on my experimental popping bugs for bass on topwater. First when the strike explodes, I cannot just WAIT! I must set the hook! On those rare occasions when I absolutely refused to set the hook, the bass quickly spat out my bug and swam away. I have yet to hook up a bass with a circle hook, much less to catch one! Of course, most bass spit out my bugs anyway - LOL That these hooks could play a role in reducing the mortality of fish caught by bait fishermen is definitely true, but also extremely unlikely, as the majority of the bait fishermen are there because they want to catch and kill the fish. It was my understanding that CA DF&G was seeking a method for all fishermen to use and throw back smaller fish when only one fish could be killed and also fish out of slot limit could be returned to the water practically unharmed. They were seeking better post release survival rates than just barbless hooks alone provide. If they could prove circle hooks were better in freshwater salmon fisheries, they planned to extend circle hooks to all catch and release fishing. If they changed their methods, as has also been suggested, to suit the peculiarities of circle hooks, then they will merely be baitfishing with flies. Perhaps my problem is my popping bug design. I eagerly await your description of a "booby." Good luck! John |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Wolfgang asks:
What do you suppose are the odds that an UNsnelled hook "...with worm, corn, or bread..." will kill a fish? and, while we are at it, what are the odds that a small trout fly can easily do likewise? I won't even delve into the issue of treble hook spinning lures, by far the deadliest of all options, and perfectly legal on most PA delayed harvest areas. Tom |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:10:36 -0800, "John Lindsey"
wrote: Very interesting points, Mike. Thanks for the info. [snip] Good luck! John Mike's description of circle hook issues just about sums it up with one exception, steelhead and salmon wet flies. The swung fly does provide a potential use as the steady pull of the current can drag the hook into the ideal scissor postion. The same thing can happen if the fish takes the fly and turns. Since the steelheader swinging a fly on the end of 90' line may not even feel the take, this hook does provide some potential advantages. Last season, one of the local guides used circle hooks for chinook and managed a very good hookup rate so I'll probably try some for this season. About your popping bug problem, that's a toughie. All I can suggest is a steady lift rather than a strike. Bass bugs are probably the last thing I'd use with a circle hook. Peter turn mailhot into hotmail to reply Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"John Lindsey" wrote Please describe this "booby." Mike will likely correct me, but I "think" ( always needs quotes when it refers to me ... since it's clearly stretching the word ) that they are flies tied with foam to float, and with marabou or some such to wiggle around, but fished on a sinking line and not moved much, if at all I fish the idea, if not the booby pattern, in lakes and it's a killer, at times. I usually use a floating dragon fly nymph and fast sinking line, enough leader so the fly is above bottom weeds, and a slow, oh, so slow, retrieve ( with the occasional fast twitch in there to keep from going nuts :-) When it's working it works well. |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Wayne Harrison wrote:
"a-happy-up-yours" wrote but penicillin has helped...... Tom the only thing penicillin can't whip is cheryl crow. yfitp wayno Was she the girl with one blue eye in the middle of her forehead? Maybe that was her sister? Mother? Tom |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:37:17 GMT, "just al"
wrote: Itīs not, itīs a knot. http://www.marinews.com/fishing/Knot...k_hooksnel.htm A snelled hook, is a hook attached to a piece of line using this knot. Shoot. I used this as my source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=snells Am I still top posting? No, you're not. And with no prompting, you've started to allow some space between what you're quoting and your own comments. Much easier to read. -- rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing. Often taunted by trout. Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it. http://www.visi.com/~cyli |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"just al" wrote in message ... Wolfgang What do you suppose are the odds that an UNsnelled hook "...with worm, corn, or bread..." will kill a fish? I suppose you already know the answer. Little trick I learned from a lawyer. You know, I can help you with your bullying issues. Ah, an optimist! How many shiny new nickels did you say you've got? I have training with helping aggressive at-risk students succeed and feel positive. You're good......I'm feeling better and better every minute. There's no hugging involved... Oh yeah, the old "enough foreplay, let's ****" gambit, eh? Hoary, but still serviceable. Wolfgang oh, and orthography ain't the study of words.....teacher. |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"a-happy-up-yours" wrote in message ink.net... If you could've seen that guy, Wolfie, skillfully afoot, in the presence of the glorious Lana, just over a year ago....., well, a true master. Smoove and cleaver...why she was absolutely besmirched. I could see the coalescence of the force....the genesis of the species was in sight...... Damn, I'd almost forgotten just how GOOD I really am! And I hadn't even put any of my best moves on her yet. and, then, Jeffie walked into the pool hall and the time-space continuum was set asunder. The *******. Forever. Nah, that's Wayno's fault. The *******. The remembrance still stirs, but penicillin has helped...... Not much......still itches something fierce. :( Wolfgang ya lie down with dogs....... |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"Charlie Choc" wrote in message ... Hilarious. g And after all the trouble I took to compliment you on your ability to distinguish between hilarious and barely cute......tsk, tsk. Wolfgang no good deed, however small......... |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
Wolfgang wrote: There's no hugging involved... Oh yeah, the old "enough foreplay, let's ****" gambit, eh? Hoary, but still serviceable. "hilarious"... but, when whorey, foreplay ain't exactly part of the deal, is it? |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
a-happy-up-yours wrote in
ink.net: Smoove and cleaver... But was he swave and deboner? Scott |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
|
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"Jeff Miller" wrote in message news:5DG_b.4818$TT5.2670@lakeread06... Wolfgang wrote: There's no hugging involved... Oh yeah, the old "enough foreplay, let's ****" gambit, eh? Hoary, but still serviceable. "hilarious"... but, when whorey, foreplay ain't exactly part of the deal, is it? It's always part of the deal. Cash is simply a remarkably effective accelerator. Wolfgang who has a nagging feeling that he just stepped in something best avoided. :( |
Attention Pa Fisherman: Special Regulations change
"John Lindsey" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... Very interesting points, Mike. Thanks for the info. SNIP You can find info on boobies here; http://bishfish.co.nz/articles/boobyfly.htm The things I was using for cod were the same, but quite a bit larger, and tied on circle hooks. TL MC |
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