OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

I haven't read anything lately that scares the bejesus out of me
as much as this article from today's Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/education/08HOME.html

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
news
I haven't read anything lately that scares the bejesus out of me
as much as this article from today's Times.

Yeah, but the girl in the HarrisDirect ad has nice, um, features. :-)

Joe F.

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"rb608" wrote...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:

I haven't read anything lately that scares the bejesus out of me
as much as this article from today's Times.

Yeah, but the girl in the HarrisDirect ad has nice, um, features. :-)

I was so turned on by the article I didn't notice. ;-)
--
yfotr,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

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Ken Fortenberry wrote in
om:

I haven't read anything lately that scares the bejesus out of me
as much as this article from today's Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/education/08HOME.html


Ken, you scare easy. It's what I'm not reading that scares the living ****
out of me. My fear today is the lack of a media uproar demanding release
of the strategic petroleum reserve.

Scott

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On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:48:29 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

I haven't read anything lately that scares the bejesus out of me
as much as this article from today's Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/education/08HOME.html


Nah, not much problem. In fact it's excellent that they're getting
involved in White House politics while they're still young enough and
idealistic enough to become hysterically upset when they finally
notice what's really going on around them.

(BTW, I'd figure the same for rabid liberal's kids who were overly
into dogma when the kids got a chance to play in Democrat politics.)
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Ken Fortenberry wrote:

I haven't read anything lately that scares the bejesus out of me
as much as this article from today's Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/education/08HOME.html

There is something very un-christian about the self-segregation of
home-schooling.

Mu

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Yep, the religious right drove me out of the Republican Party! They are
Rinos (Republicans in name only). The religious right does not embrace the
traditional Republican values of fiscal conservancy and limited government
intrusion. They are using the GOP to push "Jesus" on the rest of us. The
religious right is no better than the Taliban.


"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...
I haven't read anything lately that scares the bejesus out of me
as much as this article from today's Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/08/education/08HOME.html

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Mark wrote:

The religious right does not embrace the
traditional Republican values of fiscal conservancy and limited government
intrusion.

Traditional Republican values??? Gag!

Fiscal conservatism? Are you aware of which way the deficit is headed,
taking Social Security along with it? The Republicans control the
Presidency and Congress, but they blame the "Clinton recession,"
neglecting to mention that Clinton left them with a record surplus, and
surpluses projected as far as the eye could see, and they squandered it
on reckless tax cuts for the wealthy.

When someone points this out, they scream "class warfare." I love
Warren Buffet's comment: "If class warfare is being waged in America, my
class is clearly winning."

As for limited government intrusion, that's an even bigger joke. Are you
comfortable with John Ashcroft administering the so-called Patriot Act?
Now we have a Bush proposal to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex
marriage, for God's sake. The Republicans try to use the Constitution to
exploit wedge issues in nearly every election year. In 1980 Reagan
supported an amendment to ban abortion, and this still remains in the
party platform. In 1988 George H. W. Bush called for an amendment
outlawing flag burning. In 1996 Bob Dole supported amendments on flag
burning, school prayer, and a mandated balanced budget. (Sweet irony,
there.) The 1996 party platform also called for amendments on term
limits, citizenship for children of illegal aliens, and victims' rights.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:03:23 -0700, rw
wrote:

Mark wrote:

The religious right does not embrace the
traditional Republican values of fiscal conservancy and limited government
intrusion.

Traditional Republican values??? Gag!

Once upon a time those were the cornerstones of the Republican
platform.

(snipped)

As for limited government intrusion, that's an even bigger joke. Are you
comfortable with John Ashcroft

I'm not very comfortable with John Ashcroft being of the same species
I am.

administering the so-called Patriot Act?

I wouldn't trust Mother Teresa (if she came back) to administer that
Act.


--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

In article ,
says...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:03:23 -0700, rw
wrote:


Fiscal conservatism? Are you aware of which way the deficit is headed,
taking Social Security along with it?

Anyone counting on SS payments more than 10 years out
is crazy: the boys in the administration playing with
our futures are busy killing any chance that there will
be any money to pay anyone, or any money worth anything
to pay to anyone.


Yeah, both parties have killed any chance of SS weathering
the coming baby-boomer retirements. I was surprised to
find that Greenspan, back in 1983, actually put in place a measure that
would have gotten us through this, collecting extra money while
the boomers are working. Of course the politicians (being politicians)
promptly spent every last extra cent of it.

No one, from either party, has had the guts to make the hard changes
needed. I'm actually curious to see how this all plays out, but I'm
confident of one thing. My generation will be the ones paying for it
all.

Yay!,
- Ken

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rw:
Right you are. Back in Teddy Roosevelt's time.
If Barry Goldwater were alive today, he'd be a Democrat.

Do you mean in the McCain sort or manner?

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

rw wrote:
lid wrote:

Once upon a time those were the cornerstones of the Republican
platform.

Right you are. Back in Teddy Roosevelt's time. ...

Saw a Theodore Rossevelt quote the other day that is as apropos
today as it was when it was uttered in 1918:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
--Theodore Roosevelt

--
Ken Fortenberry

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wrote in message
...
...My generation will be the ones paying for it
all.

EVERY generation has been "the ones paying for it all", whatever the
"it" du jour may have been. Life ain't free. Get used to it.

Wolfgang

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:08:12 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

rw wrote:
lid wrote:

Once upon a time those were the cornerstones of the Republican
platform.

Right you are. Back in Teddy Roosevelt's time. ...

Saw a Theodore Rossevelt quote the other day that is as apropos
today as it was when it was uttered in 1918:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
--Theodore Roosevelt


You didn't post that in 1998 ;-)

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
rw wrote:
lid wrote:

Once upon a time those were the cornerstones of the Republican
platform.

Right you are. Back in Teddy Roosevelt's time. ...

Saw a Theodore Rossevelt quote the other day that is as apropos
today as it was when it was uttered in 1918:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
--Theodore Roosevelt

Here's another that's also quite apropos:
"If [peace activists] could only be prevailed upon to sum up eloquently the many
unspeakable miseries and horrors of War, and to present them to their own
country as a conclusive reason for its being undefended against War, and
becoming a prey of the first despot who might choose to inflict those miseries
and horrors- why then I really believe we should have got to the very best joke
we could hope to have in our whole Complete Jest Book for Posterity and might
fold our arms and rest convinced that we had done enough for that discerning
Patriarch's amusement."
--Theodore Roosevelt
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

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rw:
Our present administration
should take a page from Teddy's playbook, instead of blustering with
tough talk and overextending our military, our treasury, and our
credibility on reckless foreign adventures

Of course, there was that little shindig that came to be known as San Juan
Hill, some construction project in what became Panama, and the round the
world trip of the Great White Fleet. But the more I learn about TR the more
I'm convinced that we need another like him. Sooner, rather than later,
would be best.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

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slenon wrote:

rw:

Our present administration
should take a page from Teddy's playbook, instead of blustering with
tough talk and overextending our military, our treasury, and our
credibility on reckless foreign adventures


Of course, there was that little shindig that came to be known as San Juan
Hill, some construction project in what became Panama, and the round the
world trip of the Great White Fleet. But the more I learn about TR the more
I'm convinced that we need another like him. Sooner, rather than later,
would be best.


Do you think that today, a man like him could even get to the position
where he could be a candidate for President in one of the major
parties?

Willi

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Willi wrote:

Do you think that today, a man like him could even get to the position
where he could be a candidate for President in one of the major
parties?

Certainly. Teddy Roosevelt was a New York City aristocrat, but he had
the common touch. He was worshiped by his Rough Riders and by the
working men he met and employed on his Dakota ranch. He conquered
childhood illness and a class-based tendency toward snobbery. He stood
up to the railroad and coal trusts, who were the natural constituency of
his Republican Party. He was an honest and fearless man.

The fundamental aspect of his popularity was that he was a "no bull****"
guy. His personal courage and honesty were beyond question. It also
didn't hurt his cause that he understood how to manipulate the press.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

rw wrote:

Willi wrote:


Do you think that today, a man like him could even get to the position
where he could be a candidate for President in one of the major
parties?


Certainly. ...

I don't think so. There is no way that Teddy could have been a candidate
for the presidency in his own era, much less ours. He was a loose cannon
and an outspoken burr in the saddle of his own party. Boss Tom Platt made
him vice-president just to get him out of the New York governor's mansion
and stick him somewhere where he couldn't do much damage. If not for the
assassination of William McKinley, Teddy would never have been president.

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

rw wrote:

Willi wrote:


Do you think that today, a man like him could even get to the position
where he could be a candidate for President in one of the major
parties?


Certainly. Teddy Roosevelt was a New York City aristocrat, but he had
the common touch. He was worshiped by his Rough Riders and by the
working men he met and employed on his Dakota ranch. He conquered
childhood illness and a class-based tendency toward snobbery. He stood
up to the railroad and coal trusts, who were the natural constituency of
his Republican Party. He was an honest and fearless man.

The fundamental aspect of his popularity was that he was a "no bull****"
guy. His personal courage and honesty were beyond question. It also
didn't hurt his cause that he understood how to manipulate the press.


Maybe I'm more disillusioned than you, but I don't think that the man
you describe above would be able to get far enough in politics to be
elected to any major office.

Willi

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"slenon" wrote in message
. com...
rw:
Our present administration
should take a page from Teddy's playbook, instead of blustering with
tough talk and overextending our military, our treasury, and our
credibility on reckless foreign adventures

Of course, there was that little shindig that came to be known as San Juan
Hill, some construction project in what became Panama, and the round the
world trip of the Great White Fleet. But the more I learn about TR the
more
I'm convinced that we need another like him. Sooner, rather than later,
would be best.

Times have changed......somebody would shoot him

Wolfgang
hell, somebody DID shoot him.

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Willi" wrote in message
...


rw wrote:

Willi wrote:


Do you think that today, a man like him could even get to the position
where he could be a candidate for President in one of the major
parties?


Certainly. Teddy Roosevelt was a New York City aristocrat, but he had
the common touch. He was worshiped by his Rough Riders and by the
working men he met and employed on his Dakota ranch. He conquered
childhood illness and a class-based tendency toward snobbery. He stood
up to the railroad and coal trusts, who were the natural constituency of
his Republican Party. He was an honest and fearless man.

The fundamental aspect of his popularity was that he was a "no bull****"
guy. His personal courage and honesty were beyond question. It also
didn't hurt his cause that he understood how to manipulate the press.


Maybe I'm more disillusioned than you, but I don't think that the man
you describe above would be able to get far enough in politics to be
elected to any major office.

Well, Steve left out a couple of things. Theodore Roosevelt was pugnacious
to a degree seldom encountered, ferociously tenacious........and brilliant.
I think that in whatever age he found himself, about the only thing that
could have stood between him and success at whatever he set his mind to
would be assassination and, as noted, THAT was already tried with scant
success.

Wolfgang
who, if he were in the market for a hero, would at least pause to consider.

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Wolfgang wrote:


Well, Steve left out a couple of things. Theodore Roosevelt was pugnacious
to a degree seldom encountered, ferociously tenacious........and brilliant.
I think that in whatever age he found himself, about the only thing that
could have stood between him and success at whatever he set his mind to
would be assassination and, as noted, THAT was already tried with scant
success.

Wolfgang
who, if he were in the market for a hero, would at least pause to consider.

I think that a politician today could start out as that kind of man, but
if he survived to be either the Republican or Democratic candidate for
president, he would, as Wayne would say, be changed.

Willi

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

um...gulp...did willi just agree with forty??

jeff (suspecting the next thing he'll see will involve bj writing a
bunch of properly spelled words in a single sentence. ...tomorrow,
tomorrow, the sun'll come up tomorrow!!)

Willi wrote:



rw wrote:

Willi wrote:


Do you think that today, a man like him could even get to the position
where he could be a candidate for President in one of the major
parties?



Certainly. Teddy Roosevelt was a New York City aristocrat, but he had
the common touch. He was worshiped by his Rough Riders and by the
working men he met and employed on his Dakota ranch. He conquered
childhood illness and a class-based tendency toward snobbery. He stood
up to the railroad and coal trusts, who were the natural constituency
of his Republican Party. He was an honest and fearless man.

The fundamental aspect of his popularity was that he was a "no
bull****" guy. His personal courage and honesty were beyond question.
It also didn't hurt his cause that he understood how to manipulate the
press.


Maybe I'm more disillusioned than you, but I don't think that the man
you describe above would be able to get far enough in politics to be
elected to any major office.

Willi

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Do you think that today, a man like him could even get to the position
where he could be a candidate for President in one of the major
parties?

He'd have a better chance than Harry Truman today. His family status would
get him part way into the political mill.

But I wonder if he would play the party game sufficiently today. I think
the parties would pass him, and Harry, by for lesser and less qualified
people.

America is not the place it was a century ago, nor are we the people we were
then. The ideas of manifest destiny, expansionism, and all the other
beliefs that led to the days of American world dominance are not widely held
or politically acceptable anymore.
--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Times have changed......somebody would shoot him
Wolfgang
hell, somebody DID shoot him.

I agree. I'm glad he came along when he did.


--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Jeff Miller wrote:

um...gulp...did willi just agree with forty??

jeff (suspecting the next thing he'll see will involve bj writing a
bunch of properly spelled words in a single sentence. ...tomorrow,
tomorrow, the sun'll come up tomorrow!!)


Just because I don't like the guy doesn't mean I disagree with
everything he says.

Willi

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On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:11:04 GMT, "slenon"
wrote:
[snipped]
America is not the place it was a century ago, nor are we the people we were
then. The ideas of manifest destiny, expansionism, and all the other
beliefs that led to the days of American world dominance are not widely held
or politically acceptable anymore.

Umm.....

/daytripper (apparently, you didn't get the memo)

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Willi" wrote in message
...

I think that a politician today could start out as that kind of man, but
if he survived to be either the Republican or Democratic candidate for
president, he would, as Wayne would say, be changed.

Teddy's world, one suspects, was not all ars poetica and old lace.

Wolfgang
who sometimes wonders what color the world was before sepia.

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Wolfgang wrote:

Well, Steve left out a couple of things. Theodore Roosevelt was pugnacious
to a degree seldom encountered, ferociously tenacious........and brilliant.
I think that in whatever age he found himself, about the only thing that
could have stood between him and success at whatever he set his mind to
would be assassination and, as noted, THAT was already tried with scant
success.

Against all my basic instincts, I agree with Wolfgang. :-)

Theodore Roosevelt was a brilliant man with nearly supernatural energy,
personal magnetism, and acute political instincts. In his second term he
was overwhelmingly popular, and could easily have won a third term.

ObROFF, he was also the most important conservationist politician this
country ever had.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

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daytripper wrote:

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:11:04 GMT, "slenon"
wrote:
[snipped]

America is not the place it was a century ago, nor are we the people we were
then. The ideas of manifest destiny, expansionism, and all the other
beliefs that led to the days of American world dominance are not widely held
or politically acceptable anymore.


Umm.....

/daytripper (apparently, you didn't get the memo)

That's funny. Good one.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

lid says...
snipped
If not for the
assassination of William McKinley, Teddy would never have been president.

Really? Who was elected in 1904? Oh yeah, Teddy Roosevelt..... Given
his career, constant ascent to higher offices and popularity, he was
destined for the White House one way or another IMO.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Greg Pavlov wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:59:07 -0500, "Tim J."
wrote:


Here's another that's also quite apropos:



Way, way too complicated for the average {B,R}ush fan.

It was too complicated for me, and I despise Bush.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

says...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:59:07 -0500, "Tim J."
wrote:


Here's another that's also quite apropos:


Way, way too complicated for the average {B,R}ush fan.

It obviously is too advanced for liberals..... Are you sure that you
really understand the quote that Tim provided?

"Love of peace is common among weak, short-sighted, timid, and lazy
persons; and on the other hand courage is found among many men of evil
temper and bad character. Neither quality shall by itself avail."

"Justice among the nations of mankind, and the uplifting of humanity,
can be brought about only by those strong and daring men who with wisdom
love peace, but who love righteousness more than peace."

Care to guess who wrote those? I'll give you a hint: his initials were
T.R., his first name was Theodore and his last name was Roosevelt.

Maybe this will help you out further. And yeah, I know, you agree with
me more often than not......

http://attaboy.tommydoc.net/archives/000236.html
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

daytripper wrote in message . ..

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:11:04 GMT, "slenon"
wrote:

America is not the place it was a century ago, nor are we the people we were
then. The ideas of manifest destiny, expansionism, and all the other
beliefs that led to the days of American world dominance are not widely held
or politically acceptable anymore.

Umm.....

/daytripper (apparently, you didn't get the memo)

POTM.


Chuck Vance

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

/daytripper (apparently, you didn't get the memo)

No, I must have missed that one. Would you care to share your copy?

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Greg Pavlov wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:52:58 GMT, "slenon"
wrote:


Of course, there was that little shindig that came to be known as San Juan
Hill, ...


What about that "shindig ?"

Theodore Roosevelt showed enormous personal courage and leadership in
the battle, and characteristically he tried to take as much credit as
possible. My favorite Roosevelt quote isn't by him, but by his beautiful
and strong willed daughter, Alice Roosevelt Longworth:

"My father always wanted to be the corpse at every funeral, the bride at
every wedding and the baby at every christening."

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

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Greg Pavlov:
What about that "shindig ?"

Other than being an example of personal heroism on TR's part, I mention that
it "came to be known as San Juan Hill." The RoughRiders and the Buffalo
Soldiers who accompanied them on the assault took Kettle Hill.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

slenon wrote:
Greg Pavlov:

What about that "shindig ?"


Other than being an example of personal heroism on TR's part, I mention that
it "came to be known as San Juan Hill." The RoughRiders and the Buffalo
Soldiers who accompanied them on the assault took Kettle Hill.


Taking Kettle Hill was crucial to the battle of San Juan Hill. TR and
his Rough Riders and the Buffalo Soldiers also stormed San Juan Hill, at
great risk.

One serious blight on TR's reputation is the Brownsville incident, when
a company of black soldiers, some of whom served with TR in Cuba,
allegedly rioted in Brownsville, Texas, killing one white man. In
historical retrospect, it appears to have been a set up by town racists,
but TR cashiered the whole lot of soldiers, because not one would confess.

It's fair to say, though, that TR was not a racist by the standards of
his day. In fact, he was a strong advocate of racial tolerance. In one
incident, when he was police commissioner of New York City, a vicious,
anti-Semitic, rabble-rousing lecturer came to town. Roosevelt dispatched
a squad of Jewish city police to give him "protection." That was pure
Rooseveltian.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.