OT Follow the money
 

This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors
but one here in Urbana who sent money to a political campaign
sent their money to the good guys. Most of them to Howard Dean.

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT Follow the money
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
m...
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors
but one here in Urbana who sent money to a political campaign
sent their money to the good guys. Most of them to Howard Dean.

--
Ken Fortenberry


"good guys", eh?

you wouldn't know good if it kissed you on both cheeks and handed you a
million dollars.

if you say something is good, i resolve to run like hell from it.

OT Follow the money
 

In article ,
lid says...
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors
but one here in Urbana who sent money to a political campaign
sent their money to the good guys. Most of them to Howard Dean.

In my area is was split almost equally between Bush and Dean with some
Clark. Bush's donations were generally higher than Dean's though.

The interesting part, to me, was that I couldn't find one donation to
Kerry. Wonder if the dems have already tapped out much of their
donations supporting failed candidates?
- Ken

OT Follow the money
 

OT Follow the money
 

In article ,
lid says...
wrote:
...
The interesting part, to me, was that I couldn't find one donation to
Kerry. ...

Plug in 02100, that will give you Boston, MA and tons of Kerry donations.

You might be interested to know that 100% of all Janiks sent
contributions to Howard Dean while all of the Elmo Fortenberrys
sent contributions to Shrub. ;-)

100%, Eh? You musta loved Clinton. While that is correct, it's a tad
bit misleading given that there's only one Janik who has made a
contribution.

Not related to me BTW, all my relatives are too cheap to give money to
anyone else (especially a politician).....myself included.
- Ken

OT Follow the money
 

Scary high percentage for Bush in my area ...mostly "farmers" ( if you
understand modern California agriculture you'll understand the quotation
marks ) and "ranchers" and a ton at $2000 ... there was probably a $2000/
plate fund raiser dinner ... "Come on boys, spend a couple grand and we'll
see to it that those damn fish don't get any water you need to grow
subsidized crops."

OT Follow the money
 

Ken Fortenberry wrote in message ...
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors
but one here in Urbana who sent money to a political campaign
sent their money to the good guys. Most of them to Howard Dean.

--
Ken Fortenberry

interesting, indeed. here in piedmont north carolina, in a relatively
affluent neighborhood, i was surprised that john edwards appeared to have
garnered more contribs than the prez.

yfitons
wayno

OT Follow the money
 

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:29:02 -0500, "Wayne Harrison"
wrote:

interesting, indeed. here in piedmont north carolina, in a relatively
affluent neighborhood, i was surprised that john edwards appeared to have
garnered more contribs than the prez.

I was surprised to see that anyone *other* than Bush got money in my
neighborhood (W was 23/30). Edwards even got one $2K donation, but
lions share of the money went to shrub.
--
Charlie...

OT Follow the money
 

Charlie Choc wrote:

I was surprised to see that anyone *other* than Bush got money in my
neighborhood (W was 23/30).

The only contribution I saw from Stanley, Idaho was $2000 for Dean. I
know the guy and I'm not surprised, but I'm surprised that Bush hasn't
gotten some contributions.

Idaho is sometimes called the most Republican state in the country, but
I've encountered quite a few disaffected Republicans this year. People
HATE the Patriot Act. Politically, however, Stanley isn't typical of the
urban and ranching population. A few years ago we had an openly lesbian
mayor and no one cared in the slightest.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

OT Follow the money
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
m...
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors
but one here in Urbana who sent money to a political campaign
sent their money to the good guys. Most of them to Howard Dean.

--
Ken Fortenberry


it appears that a lot of the folks contributing in my area are self
employed. this is a great way to determine who's business to support and
who NOT to give your money to- if you care what they do with it.

-Snakefiddler

OT Follow the money
 

"snakefiddler" wrote...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors
but one here in Urbana who sent money to a political campaign
sent their money to the good guys. Most of them to Howard Dean.


it appears that a lot of the folks contributing in my area are self
employed. this is a great way to determine who's business to support and
who NOT to give your money to- if you care what they do with it.

I think it would be rather shallow to not do business with someone because of
their political beliefs and support of a legitimate political party. But that's
just me.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Follow the money
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
I think it would be rather shallow to not do business with someone because
of
their political beliefs and support of a legitimate political party. But
that's
just me.

True enough, but all other things being equal....

I see that a few folks on the list for my area are real estate agents. If I
were in the market to drop a few thousand in RE fees, I would rather *not*
contract with a business who would fork over $2,000 to a man I detest, when
there are easily dozens of others who apparently would not. But that's just
me. g

Joe F.

OT Follow the money
 

Tim J. wrote:

I think it would be rather shallow to not do business with someone because of
their political beliefs and support of a legitimate political party. But that's
just me.

Doesn't sound shallow to me, sounds like using the power of your pocketbook
to further your self-interest. What's wrong with that ?

I once chose a law firm because they sponsored the Grateful Dead Hour on
our local alternative radio station. Incompetent hippy *******s ended up
costing me a small fortune, uhh ... where was I going with that ? ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT Follow the money
 

Ken Fortenberry wrote in message om...
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors

Am I the only one who finds this a little scary???

Y'all rail about the patriot act, but this little piece of
big brother you're fine with?

Sheesh.

Jon. (bigbrotherisms don't have to always come from the gov't)

OT Follow the money
 

Jonathan Cook wrote:

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors

Am I the only one who finds this a little scary???

Y'all rail about the patriot act, but this little piece of
big brother you're fine with?

Sheesh.

Jon. (bigbrotherisms don't have to always come from the gov't)

You'd prefer that Enron and Halliburton slip Shrub a couple of mil'
under the table ? Not that that doesn't happen anyway, but I'm all
for knowing where politicos get their campaign money.

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT Follow the money
 

On 19 Mar 2004 14:50:59 -0800, (Jonathan Cook)
wrote:

Ken Fortenberry wrote in message om...
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors

Am I the only one who finds this a little scary???

Y'all rail about the patriot act, but this little piece of
big brother you're fine with?

How else can campaign finance laws be enforced?

Jon. (bigbrotherisms don't have to always come from the gov't)

The info *is* from the gov't. (http://www.fec.gov/)
--
Charlie...

OT Follow the money
 

"rb608" wrote...
"Tim J." wrote:
I think it would be rather shallow to not do business with someone because
of their political beliefs and support of a legitimate political party. But
that's just me.

True enough, but all other things being equal....

I see that a few folks on the list for my area are real estate agents. If I
were in the market to drop a few thousand in RE fees, I would rather *not*
contract with a business who would fork over $2,000 to a man I detest, when
there are easily dozens of others who apparently would not. But that's just
me. g

That's exactly why the contribution information should be kept private from the
general public - just based on the reaction from some of this group alone. An
individual should not suffer repercussions because of their political beliefs
and affiliations unless they decide to stand on a soapbox and shout them to the
world, which would declare an open target to the public. This is the equivalent
of "blacklisting" in my book, especially if, as in my case, your political views
are unpopular in your geographical area.

Besides, residing in Massachusetts, if I were to follow this policy I'd never be
able to buy *anything* from *anyone* ever again. :)

I'm in too deep already. EOT for me. OBROFFIt's back to drooling over the new
Orvis catalog that arrived in the mail today.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

OT Follow the money
 

"rw" wrote in message
m...
.....A few years ago we had an openly lesbian
mayor and no one cared in the slightest.

Yeah, that sounds vaguely familiar. What was his name again?

Wolfgang

OT Follow the money
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...

I think it would be rather shallow to not do business with someone because
of
their political beliefs and support of a legitimate political party. But
that's
just me.

Hm.....

I'd bet a shiny new nickel that it would take you less than five minutes to
come up with a very good argument demonstrating why yours is a morally
repugnant position. :)

Wolfgang
who just loves a can't lose proposition.

OT Follow the money
 

"Jonathan Cook" wrote in message
m...

Am I the only one who finds this a little scary???

Y'all rail about the patriot act, but this little piece of
big brother you're fine with?

Sheesh.

Jon. (bigbrotherisms don't have to always come from the gov't)

Social intercourse is always a delicate balancing act. Knowing which band
of murderous pigs one's neighbors support is, I think, useful and perfectly
legitimate. Allowing the particular band of murderous pigs in power at the
moment to know more about you than they have any legitimate reason to know
is another matter entirely.

Wolfgang
a shiny new nickel to the first one who correctly names the gang of
murderous pigs with the most guns.

OT Follow the money
 

Punched in my old zip back in NYC and found a Joseph A Ferrara and a
Joseph J Ferrara both listed at the same adress, both contributing $2000
to Bush - one is a self-employed attorney and the other is the owner of
a consulting firm.

Mu

OT Follow the money
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...

"snakefiddler" wrote...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors
but one here in Urbana who sent money to a political campaign
sent their money to the good guys. Most of them to Howard Dean.


it appears that a lot of the folks contributing in my area are self
employed. this is a great way to determine who's business to support
and
who NOT to give your money to- if you care what they do with it.

I think it would be rather shallow to not do business with someone because
of
their political beliefs and support of a legitimate political party. But
that's
just me.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj



bull****. why should i give my money to someone who is going to turn around
and use it to support a candidate or organization that i do not support or
worse detest.
i know it is next to impossible to know where every business i patronize
puts their money, but at least when i do know, i can make an informed
decision.

-snakefiddler
that's my story, and i'm stickin to it!

OT Follow the money
 

"snakefiddler" wrote in message
...

bull****. why should i give my money to someone who is going to turn
around
and use it to support a candidate or organization that i do not support or
worse detest.
i know it is next to impossible to know where every business i patronize
puts their money, but at least when i do know, i can make an informed
decision.

-snakefiddler
that's my story, and i'm stickin to it!

By your reasoning above, if I was your employer and found out that you
were giving money to a candidate that I do not support or worse detest, I
should deny you any raises or even fire you.
In "at will" states I would have that option (though I'd probably have to
give another reason). It may be legal, but is it "right"?


--
Bob Weinberger
La, Grande, OR

place a dot between bobs and stuff and remove invalid to send email

OT Follow the money
 

I hope you find plenty of Coors beer and Walmarts over there. Everybody
votes for and with their pocketbook. Some people donate large amounts in
order to get what they want. I spend mine to keep them form getting what I
don't want. Lots of the $ 2,000 donars want to see the snowmobiles in
Yellowstone, clearcuts, cynide leach mines etc. They can do it without my
help. I just canceled a LL Bean credit card because it's issued by MBNA who
gave Shrub $200,000.
TMSAISTO
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
...

"snakefiddler" wrote in message
...

bull****. why should i give my money to someone who is going to turn
around
and use it to support a candidate or organization that i do not support
or
worse detest.
i know it is next to impossible to know where every business i patronize
puts their money, but at least when i do know, i can make an informed
decision.

-snakefiddler
that's my story, and i'm stickin to it!

By your reasoning above, if I was your employer and found out that you
were giving money to a candidate that I do not support or worse detest, I
should deny you any raises or even fire you.
In "at will" states I would have that option (though I'd probably have to
give another reason). It may be legal, but is it "right"?


--
Bob Weinberger
La, Grande, OR

place a dot between bobs and stuff and remove invalid to send email

OT Follow the money
 

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
...

"snakefiddler" wrote in message
...

bull****. why should i give my money to someone who is going to turn
around
and use it to support a candidate or organization that i do not support
or
worse detest.
i know it is next to impossible to know where every business i patronize
puts their money, but at least when i do know, i can make an informed
decision.

-snakefiddler
that's my story, and i'm stickin to it!

By your reasoning above, if I was your employer and found out that you
were giving money to a candidate that I do not support or worse detest, I
should deny you any raises or even fire you.
In "at will" states I would have that option (though I'd probably have to
give another reason). It may be legal, but is it "right"?


--
Bob Weinberger
La, Grande, OR

Hm.....so, if you find out that one of your local shopkeepers contributes
regularly to the White Aryan Resistance, do you make a point of patronizing
his or her establishment in order to protect all of our rights?

Wolfgang
and lest anyone should protest the use of a violent extremist group for
illustrative purposes, i'd bet a shiny new nickel that he or she was not
vacationing in or near baghdad a year ago today.

OT Follow the money
 

B J Conner wrote...
I hope you find plenty of Coors beer and Walmarts over there. Everybody
votes for and with their pocketbook. Some people donate large amounts in
order to get what they want. I spend mine to keep them form getting what I
don't want. Lots of the $ 2,000 donars want to see the snowmobiles in
Yellowstone, clearcuts, cynide leach mines etc. They can do it without my
help. I just canceled a LL Bean credit card because it's issued by MBNA who
gave Shrub $200,000.

You don't spend much, do you? I mean Bush has raised over $100 million
more than Kerry from not only the SAME contributors, but others as well.
Yeah, that's right. Many of Kerry's contributors gave MORE money to
BUSH and Bush collected from MORE contributors as well. I realize that
you are too stupid to realize that, but pointing it out never hurts.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html

OT Follow the money
 

Wolfgang wrote:

"Bob Weinberger" wrote

By your reasoning above, if I was your employer and found out that you
were giving money to a candidate that I do not support or worse detest, I
should deny you any raises or even fire you.
In "at will" states I would have that option (though I'd probably have to
give another reason). It may be legal, but is it "right"?

Hm.....so, if you find out that one of your local shopkeepers contributes
regularly to the White Aryan Resistance, do you make a point of patronizing
his or her establishment in order to protect all of our rights?

So let's list everyone's contributions to all organizations on the
internet. Wouldn't want to be doing business with no closet
environmentalists, or alternatively, no NRA gun nuts neither.

Maybe their bank and credit card statements, their tax returns. Weed
out them serial divorcees and them improvident heathens living beyond
their means.

Let's put their library and video rental records on there, as well.
That's how you unmask your real pervert, you know.

How else to satisfy our right to find out just what these *******s all
around us might REALLY be up to?

On the other hand, we *could* perhaps restrict access to this
information to law enforcement agencies actually charged with looking
into campaign finance and tax law compliance, or into people and
organizations reasonably suspected of criminal actives (like WAR).

'Course, then the rest of us would have to be content with minding
our own business.

JR

OT Follow the money
 

Wolfgang wrote:

"Bob Weinberger" wrote

By your reasoning above, if I was your employer and found out that you
were giving money to a candidate that I do not support or worse detest, I
should deny you any raises or even fire you.
In "at will" states I would have that option (though I'd probably have to
give another reason). It may be legal, but is it "right"?

Hm.....so, if you find out that one of your local shopkeepers contributes
regularly to the White Aryan Resistance, do you make a point of patronizing
his or her establishment in order to protect all of our rights?

So let's list everyone's contributions to all organizations on the
internet. Wouldn't want to be doing business with no closet
environmentalists, or alternatively, no NRA gun nuts neither.

Maybe their bank and credit card statements, their tax returns. Weed
out them serial divorcees and them improvident heathens living beyond
their means.

Let's put their library and video rental records on there, as well.
That's how you unmask your real pervert, you know.

How else to satisfy our right to find out just what these *******s all
around us might REALLY be up to?

On the other hand, we *could* perhaps restrict access to this
information to law enforcement agencies actually charged with looking
into campaign finance and tax law compliance, or into people and
organizations reasonably suspected of criminal activities (like WAR).

'Course, then the rest of us would have to be content with minding
our own business.

JR

OT Follow the money
 

"B J Conner" wrote in message
...
I hope you find plenty of Coors beer and Walmarts over there. Everybody
votes for and with their pocketbook. Some people donate large amounts in
order to get what they want. I spend mine to keep them form getting what
I
don't want. Lots of the $ 2,000 donars want to see the snowmobiles in
Yellowstone, clearcuts, cynide leach mines etc. They can do it without
my
help. I just canceled a LL Bean credit card because it's issued by MBNA
who
gave Shrub $200,000.
TMSAISTO
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
...

"snakefiddler" wrote in message
...

bull****. why should i give my money to someone who is going to turn
around
and use it to support a candidate or organization that i do not
support
or
worse detest.
i know it is next to impossible to know where every business i
patronize
puts their money, but at least when i do know, i can make an informed
decision.

-snakefiddler
that's my story, and i'm stickin to it!

By your reasoning above, if I was your employer and found out that you
were giving money to a candidate that I do not support or worse detest,
I
should deny you any raises or even fire you.
In "at will" states I would have that option (though I'd probably have
to
give another reason). It may be legal, but is it "right"?


--
Bob Weinberger
La, Grande, OR

place a dot between bobs and stuff and remove invalid to send email





very cool- that's what i'm talkin about...
let your money speak for you....
snake

OT Follow the money
 

"JR" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:

"Bob Weinberger" wrote

By your reasoning above, if I was your employer and found out that
you
were giving money to a candidate that I do not support or worse
detest, I
should deny you any raises or even fire you.
In "at will" states I would have that option (though I'd probably have
to
give another reason). It may be legal, but is it "right"?

Hm.....so, if you find out that one of your local shopkeepers
contributes
regularly to the White Aryan Resistance, do you make a point of
patronizing
his or her establishment in order to protect all of our rights?

So let's list everyone's contributions to all organizations on the
internet. Wouldn't want to be doing business with no closet
environmentalists, or alternatively, no NRA gun nuts neither.

O.k. I contribute sporadically to the United Way, various blood banks, The
Salvation Army, Goodwill Industries, Disabled American Veterans, the
campaign checkoff thingy on my income tax forms, The Society of Saint
Vincent DePaul, various libraries, food pantries, and school fund drives. I
have, at one time or another, also contributed to the American Red Cross,
the Boy Scouts of America, The Girl Scouts of America, various churches,
winos and other indigents, numerous small children and, presumably, a host
of other individuals and causes forever lost to memory. I have never, to
the best of my recollection, made a direct contribution to any political
party (other than dues when I was a member of the Young Democrats back in
the sixties), political action committees, environmental organizations, hate
groups (by whatever euphemistic label they might wish to call themselves),
lobbying organizations, the NRA, the NAACP, the NCAA, the ASCPA, the NCLU,
AARP, the NBA, ABC, NBC, CBS, or TVA.

You?

Maybe their bank and credit card statements, their tax returns. Weed
out them serial divorcees and them improvident heathens living beyond
their means.

Let's put their library and video rental records on there, as well.
That's how you unmask your real pervert, you know.

How else to satisfy our right to find out just what these *******s all
around us might REALLY be up to?

Well, this IS fun but, before we continue, I was just wondering; do you have
ANY idead what Bob's point was.......or mine?

Anyway, modern urban life being what it is, I don't know most of what could
reasonbly be called my neighbors.....say, those living within a block or so.
However, until any of them displays through some sort of concrete example
that they harbor any ill will against me, I can think of no good reason to
suppose that it is so......and I have not yet seen such an example. If any
of them is interested enough to ask about my financial status or my tastes
in reading I might suggest that they need a hobby but I've got no reason to
withhold the information. If you like, I'll send you copies of my monthly
bank statements, income tax records, receipts for books (I prefer to buy
books rather than borrowing from the local library), and whatever else you
might find of interest.

On the other hand, we *could* perhaps restrict access to this
information to law enforcement agencies actually charged with looking
into campaign finance and tax law compliance, or into people and
organizations reasonably suspected of criminal activities (like WAR).

Well, see, there's the problem. As I stated above, none of my neighbors
have ever shown evidence of a desire to use sensitive personal information
against me or anyone else that I am aware of. The proper authorities, on
the other hand.......well, I think that if you and I were to leave our
neighbors alone, it would allow us sufficient time (if barely) to make a
full time career of cataloguing THEIR abuses.

'Course, then the rest of us would have to be content with minding
our own business.

Like answering questions directed to someone else, eh?

Wolfgang

OT Follow the money
 

Wolfgang wrote:

"JR" wrote

So let's list everyone's contributions to all organizations on the
internet.
.............
Maybe their bank and credit card statements, their tax returns.

Well, this IS fun but, before we continue, I was just wondering; do you have
ANY idead what Bob's point was.......or mine?

Well, I always have a good idea what Bob's points are, but then he
always has one. :)

.........
If you like, I'll send you copies of my monthly
bank statements, income tax records, receipts for books (I prefer to buy
books rather than borrowing from the local library), and whatever else you
might find of interest.

And permission to post them on the internet?

.......
'Course, then the rest of us would have to be content with minding
our own business.

Like answering questions directed to someone else, eh?

Another Usenet prohibition I've shot all to hell? :(

And yet I don't believe I attempted to answer any question. I responded
to an exchange, the last post of which was yours responding to Bob's,
which ended, as I recall, with a question directed to snakefiddler. G

JR

OT Follow the money
 

"JR" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:

"JR" wrote

So let's list everyone's contributions to all organizations on the
internet.
.............
Maybe their bank and credit card statements, their tax returns.

Well, this IS fun but, before we continue, I was just wondering; do you
have
ANY idead what Bob's point was.......or mine?

Well, I always have a good idea what Bob's points are, but then he
always has one. :)

Pretty restricted way to live, if you ask me. But then, asking me would be
intrusive.

If you like, I'll send you copies of my monthly
bank statements, income tax records, receipts for books (I prefer to buy
books rather than borrowing from the local library), and whatever else
you
might find of interest.

And permission to post them on the internet?

Sure.

'Course, then the rest of us would have to be content with minding
our own business.

Like answering questions directed to someone else, eh?


Another Usenet prohibition I've shot all to hell? :(

Not my area of expertise.

And yet I don't believe I attempted to answer any question.

No? Interesting. Not true, but interesting nevertheless.

I responded
to an exchange, the last post of which was yours responding to Bob's,
which ended, as I recall, with a question directed to snakefiddler. G

Ah! Comprehension begins to dawn. Well, sometimes it takes me a while but
I am nothing if not dogged......persistence usually pays off. So, you were
telling Bob that he should mind his own business, huh?

Meanwhile, life is full of odd little coincidences. Not ten minutes ago, I
was sitting on the front stoop, taking a short break from chopping down the
last remnants of last year's flower gardens when I spied a couple and what
are presumably their young sons walking up the street toward me and all
carrying plastic bags. One of the boys broke away from the pack, walked up
our driveway and handed me a bag, muttering something about "food for
families", and "we'll be back next Saturday". I'd guess he's about seven
years old. I didn't have the heart to tell him that he should mind his own
****ing business. :(

Wolfgang

OT Follow the money
 

Wolfgang wrote:

Ah! Comprehension begins to dawn. Well, sometimes it takes me a while but
I am nothing if not dogged......persistence usually pays off. So, you were
telling Bob that he should mind his own business, huh?

Persist.

Meanwhile, life is full of odd little coincidences .......

..... and of charming, feeble non sequiturs.


--not worth the candle. EOST for me.

JR

OT Follow the money
 

"JR" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:

Ah! Comprehension begins to dawn. Well, sometimes it takes me a while
but
I am nothing if not dogged......persistence usually pays off. So, you
were
telling Bob that he should mind his own business, huh?

Persist.

Meanwhile, life is full of odd little coincidences .......

.... and of charming, feeble non sequiturs.


--not worth the candle. EOST for me.

Surrender accepted. Go forth and sin no more.

Wolfgang
magnanimity, like most virtues, gets easier with practice.

OT Follow the money
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
...

By your reasoning above, if I was your employer and found out that you
were giving money to a candidate that I do not support or worse detest,
I
should deny you any raises or even fire you.
In "at will" states I would have that option (though I'd probably have
to
give another reason). It may be legal, but is it "right"?


--
Bob Weinberger
La, Grande, OR

Hm.....so, if you find out that one of your local shopkeepers contributes
regularly to the White Aryan Resistance, do you make a point of
patronizing
his or her establishment in order to protect all of our rights?

Wolfgang
and lest anyone should protest the use of a violent extremist group for
illustrative purposes, i'd bet a shiny new nickel that he or she was not
vacationing in or near baghdad a year ago today.

Maybe I should be flattered that you seem to have taken my statement and
question above as some sort of ACLU type stance of "champion the rights of
even the most unpopular among us to protect all our rights". Though I can
understand and empathize with that position, alas I am not principled
enough or morally rigid enough to actually adhere to it.
Also, making "a point of patronizing his or her establishment" would simply
be the flip side of withholding your patronage to make a political point.
No my far less lofty point is simply, if its OK for you to use the power of
the purse to try to influence (or punish) others for the political causes
that they support, it can with equal legitimacy be used against you, and
don't be surprised if it happens. I see that stance as considerably
different ( and yes probably more cowardly)than taking an active role to
protect "all our rights".


--
Bob Weinberger
La, Grande, OR

place a dot between bobs and stuff and remove invalid to send email

OT Follow the money
 

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
...

Maybe I should be flattered that you seem to have taken my statement and
question above as some sort of ACLU type stance of "champion the rights of
even the most unpopular among us to protect all our rights".

Well, maybe, but I don't think so. Even if that were what I had in mind, I
can't think of any good reason that you should be flattered by my taking
note of it.......um......or are you trying to flatter me? I mean, if that
is the case, I certainly don't have anything against a mutual admiration
society but I'd like to suggest that each of us could probably find a more
worthy icon.

Though I can
understand and empathize with that position, alas I am not principled
enough or morally rigid enough to actually adhere to it.

I guess I'm a bit more sanguine about your principles than you appear to be
but, obviously, I don't know you as well. At any rate, adherence to the
precept that all of us have some defensible rights doesn't require a great
deal of principle. Common sense will do well enough for those possessed of
a reasonable measure of it.. Reason is even better. Force of habit will
suffice for some. Others might require an occasional reminder from an
outside source, while others still may (at least theoretically) make do with
any number of other inducements.

Moral rigidity certainly could cause one to cling to a particular position
but, in this case at least, it is absolutely the wrong reason. Morality, by
virtue of the complexity of the human ladscape, requires a degree of
flexibility......what's right in a particular situation or context is not
necessarily so even in another very similar one. This, of course, bears
strongly on the question you raised in responding to Snake and which I
addressed in my earlier reply to you......and I'll get back to that in a
moment.

Also, making "a point of patronizing his or her establishment" would
simply
be the flip side of withholding your patronage to make a political point.

No, it's not quite that simple. Not all opposing points are of equal
intellectual, political, or moral value. Giving money to the American Nazi
Party is by no means simply the flip side of giving money to B'nai B'rith.

No my far less lofty point is simply, if its OK for you to use the power
of
the purse to try to influence (or punish) others for the political causes
that they support, it can with equal legitimacy be used against you, and
don't be surprised if it happens.

Forgive me; I mistook your question, "...is it 'right'?" for a serious (if,
perhaps, rhetorical) one. Had that been the case.......well, speculation on
what might have been......

I see that stance as considerably
different ( and yes probably more cowardly)than taking an active role to
protect "all our rights".

Stance? I see a banal observation in the sentence beginning, "No my far
less lofty point...", but no indication that anyone has taken a stance on
anything.....quite the contrary. You certainly appeared to be taking a
stance earlier but, as is so often the case here (as elsewhere), when
someone pointed out that what you were standing one was your dick, you
hastened to assure anyone who might be reading that you weren't standing on
anything at all, an observation that is no less ironic for being absolutely
true.

Wolfgang

OT Follow the money
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
...
snip

Also, making "a point of patronizing his or her establishment" would
simply
be the flip side of withholding your patronage to make a political
point.

No, it's not quite that simple. Not all opposing points are of equal
intellectual, political, or moral value. Giving money to the American
Nazi
Party is by no means simply the flip side of giving money to B'nai B'rith.
snip
Wolfgang

Wolfgang,
While I obviously don't always do the best job of making my points clear, I
find it hard to believe that someone, such as yourself who places great
emphasis on reading comprehension, would infer that my above statement in
any way implied that all opposing points are of equal intellectual,
political, or moral value. In case my assesment of your understanding of
what I meant to say is wrong, and you didn't use the statement simply as an
opening to make a separate point of your own, here is an amplification of my
statement in an attempt to make my point clearer:
Trying to protect all of our rights by making a point of patronizing an
establishment who's owner supports an unpopular cause, is the flip side of
withholding patronage from that establishment because you disagree with a
cause that he/she supports, or of patronizing that establishment solely
because you agree with the owner's politics ( OK, so its a 3 sided coin ).
These approaches involve using tactics that impact the owner's livelihood
solely for reasons that may or may not have anything to do with the business
itself.

While some causes are so repugnant to me that I will avoid doing business
with those who actively push those agendas, in my view at least, that is a
far cry from basing my purchasing decisions solely on whether or not the
business owner gave a few thousand dollars to a political party or candidate
other than the one I may support. And while others' MMV, I am somewhat
uneasy that such information is readily available.

For that matter, I have yet to find a candidate at the national level of
either party that I could enthusiastically support, or find enough real
difference between them that I could honestly say that I believed that one
was a measurably bigger threat to the country than the other. Don't give any
of them money, it only encourages the *******s.

Enough of this BS. Fishing conditions are starting to get prime, and as far
as I can tell, the fish don't care what our politics or philosophies are.
BTW, I'll be in the Twin Cities for a week or so sometime in July. Is a
Clave in the driftless zone of SE MN or SW WI for that apporoximate time
still being considered?


--
Bob Weinberger
La, Grande, OR

place a dot between bobs and stuff and remove invalid to send email

OT Follow the money
 

"troutbum_mt" wrote in message
t...
B J Conner wrote...
I hope you find plenty of Coors beer and Walmarts over there. Everybody
votes for and with their pocketbook. Some people donate large amounts
in
order to get what they want. I spend mine to keep them form getting
what I
don't want. Lots of the $ 2,000 donars want to see the snowmobiles in
Yellowstone, clearcuts, cynide leach mines etc. They can do it without
my
help. I just canceled a LL Bean credit card because it's issued by MBNA
who
gave Shrub $200,000.

You don't spend much, do you? I mean Bush has raised over $100 million
more than Kerry from not only the SAME contributors, but others as well.
Yeah, that's right. Many of Kerry's contributors gave MORE money to
BUSH and Bush collected from MORE contributors as well. I realize that
you are too stupid to realize that, but pointing it out never hurts.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html

Thanks for all that information. We're talking about MY money, not someone
elses, Bush don't get any of mine ( or as little as possible ). It's my
money and I'm not so stupid to know where and with whom I can spend it. I
though they taught you guys which turnips had blood in them but I didn't
know they taught that you were authorized to tell everyone how to spend
their money. I only see a lawyer when I need to, thanks for pointing out
to me that I also need one to tell me how to spend money. Are you
available? if so I could consult with you before spending amounts over $20,
$ 50 , $2K?
On second thought if I was too stupid to spend my own money I should get
someone smarter that myself to hellp me. I'll just continue to use the one
I have on retainer, she is not cheap but she is very good.

OT Follow the money
 

On 19 Mar 2004 14:50:59 -0800, (Jonathan Cook)
wrote:

Ken Fortenberry wrote in message om...
This is kinda cool

http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php

I plugged in my zip code, 61801, and found that all my neighbors

Am I the only one who finds this a little scary???

Y'all rail about the patriot act, but this little piece of
big brother you're fine with?

Sheesh.

Jon. (bigbrotherisms don't have to always come from the gov't)


It's the law that all donations over a certain amount (seems to be
$500?) have to be available to the public. It has been for years.
Something to do with campaign fund chicanery. Not that this will stop
it. I'm sure there are ways around it for the really big players.

Anyone who doesn't want their contributions known simply shouldn't
make them. Can I use that as a reason I don't contribute? Nah. Weak
and spurious reasoning. But almost cute.

BTW, my neighborhood is 8 to Bush, 6 to various Dems (2 to Kerry).
Considering that they took my whole zip code, I think that my
neighborhood shares my attitude to contributing by an estimate of
about at least a hundred to at most a thousand fold over the
contributors.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

OT Follow the money
 

wrote in message
...
On 19 Mar 2004 14:50:59 -0800, (Jonathan Cook)
wrote:
It's the law that all donations over a certain amount (seems to be
$500?) have to be available to the public. It has been for years.
Something to do with campaign fund chicanery. Not that this will stop
it. I'm sure there are ways around it for the really big players.

I think it's $200. The FEC has been collecting this information for a long
time, and anybody who wanted to walk in their front door could access the
reports on fiche and could copy pages for $.05 per page. When they first
put the information into computer storage, they sold access for $20 per
hour. They still do that for near-real-time data, but also let you download
summaries for free. (I found this all out at www.fec.gov). I'm happy this
information is now being distributed for free on the Web - remember this has
always been available to people with enough money to buy the computer time
and staff...