Rapid River article
 

The Summer 2004 issue of Fish & Fly magazine has an interesting
article on Big Brookies of the Rangley area of Maine, including the
Rapid River.

vince

Rapid River article
 

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:30:36 -0400, vincent p. norris wrote:

The Summer 2004 issue of Fish & Fly magazine has an interesting
article on Big Brookies of the Rangley area of Maine, including the
Rapid River.

Well, it's no surprise there are big brookies in Maine, but the magazine is
still run by self-serving effwits...

/daytripper (pphbbbbbtttt!)

Rapid River article
 

daytripper wrote in
:

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:30:36 -0400, vincent p. norris
wrote:

The Summer 2004 issue of Fish & Fly magazine has an interesting
article on Big Brookies of the Rangley area of Maine, including the
Rapid River.

Well, it's no surprise there are big brookies in Maine, but the
magazine is still run by self-serving effwits...

/daytripper (pphbbbbbtttt!)


Well my latest Orvis newsletter came in yesterday with a "nice" little
article pimping for restoration money that claims "the best brook trout
fishery" is the rapid.

That will go a long way to lowering the pressure. Idiots.

Flyfish

Rapid River article
 

Flyfish wrote:




Well my latest Orvis newsletter came in yesterday with a "nice" little
article pimping for restoration money that claims "the best brook trout
fishery" is the rapid.

That will go a long way to lowering the pressure. Idiots.

Flyfish

i bet you can hear the sound of one-hand clapping by aldo, though...

Rapid River article
 

Flyfish writes:

Well my latest Orvis newsletter came in yesterday with a "nice" little
article pimping for restoration money that claims "the best brook trout
fishery" is the rapid.

That will go a long way to lowering the pressure. Idiots.

This week-end is the great bass tournament at Pond in the River. The fish and
game folks told me there would be 40 people fishing the Pond in hopes of
getting rid of some of the bass. They will be lucky if they catch 40 bass
total. The best way to rid the river of bass is to turn it into a cold water
fishery instead of the warm water one it now is. FPL's total mismanagement of
the water flow is part of the problem. The bass have been in Umbagog since
1984 and have only recently become a problem. The Richardsons were overflowing
with water in early winter, but instead of bleeding it off normally, they
opened uf the dam and lowered the lake by 7 feet. It is about 5 feet low right
now and the 390 cfs remains. If you call TU and speak to the Maine bigwigs,
you will think you are talking to FPL's CEO.

Also, if the flow is 390 cfs (like it has been since May 14), the river is easy
to fish and the locals flock in. Put the flow at 900 and the fishing pressure
is lowered because the "catching" is harder. Harry (the dam keeper and local
poll taker for fish and game) counted 51 people on the river on Memorial Day,
from Cedar Stump all the way to Upper Dam. Sounds like alot of pressure, but
it was easy to find a place to fish.

I've heard from a number of people that the Lower Dam structure will be removed
this August. The state fears that if it collapses into the river below the
dam, it will be a negative impact on the brookie spawning beds. So, if you do
not have some pictures of it, best to take a few now before it becomes history.
Too bad, really. They will leave the wooden shoots and rock structures.

Also, the condo prolem is dead - or so I've heard. They can't find a way to
get the people in except by boat. However, two cabins *will* be built on Rifle
Point between the cove and the dam. Even more pressure, but not as bad as it
would have been with twelve condos.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Rapid River article
 

Forgot to add:

Last Saturday, the 5th, a fly fisherman tried to run the river from Middle Dam
down to the Pond. He made it just past Harbeck Pool before he capsized. He
tried to wade ashore and got his foot stuck between some rocks. Fortunately
there was a big rock to hold on to. When his waders filled, he did the
smartest thing and cut them off. The water temp was 53 degrees and he stayed
clinging to the rock for more than an hour before someone heard him. A friend
(Murry) waded out and tried to free the man's foot, but couldn't. So Harry
lowered the dam to less than 100 cfs and they managed to free him. A
helicopter and ambulance made it in from Rangeley, but the guy refused their
services. Most of his stuff (back pack, vest, etc) was found, but not his 4
pice Sage rod. So..............

Harry
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Rapid River article
 

On 13 Jun 2004 16:12:48 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:


Forgot to add:

Last Saturday, the 5th, a fly fisherman tried to run the river from Middle Dam
down to the Pond. He made it just past Harbeck Pool before he capsized. He
tried to wade ashore and got his foot stuck between some rocks. Fortunately
there was a big rock to hold on to. When his waders filled, he did the
smartest thing and cut them off. The water temp was 53 degrees and he stayed
clinging to the rock for more than an hour before someone heard him. A friend
(Murry) waded out and tried to free the man's foot, but couldn't. So Harry
lowered the dam to less than 100 cfs and they managed to free him. A
helicopter and ambulance made it in from Rangeley, but the guy refused their
services. Most of his stuff (back pack, vest, etc) was found, but not his 4
pice Sage rod. So..............

****in' A Tweetee Birds! Someone practicing Random Acts of Stupidity.

Why the hell would a *fishing* person be running the river? It ain't like
you're gonna have any chance to actually cast a fly!

What was he trying to float down in? A 'yak?

/daytripper (I didn't even know Frank was up there last weekend! ;-)

Rapid River article
 

/daytripper (I didn't even know Frank was up there last weekend! ;-)

I'll have you know that I got out of my little dip in the Rapid on my own,
the only thing not intact was my pride.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

Rapid River article
 

In article , Dave
LaCourse wrote:

Forgot to add:

Last Saturday, the 5th, a fly fisherman tried to run the river from Middle Dam
down to the Pond. He made it just past Harbeck Pool before he capsized. He
tried to wade ashore and got his foot stuck between some rocks. Fortunately
there was a big rock to hold on to. When his waders filled, he did the
smartest thing and cut them off. The water temp was 53 degrees and he stayed
clinging to the rock for more than an hour before someone heard him. A friend
(Murry) waded out and tried to free the man's foot, but couldn't. So Harry
lowered the dam to less than 100 cfs and they managed to free him. A
helicopter and ambulance made it in from Rangeley, but the guy refused their
services. Most of his stuff (back pack, vest, etc) was found, but not his 4
pice Sage rod. So..............

Harry
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Holly crap whatta moron! Where's Darwin when you need em? why go to the
effort to get a boat above Middledam then try and run that river? Maybe
for a thrill in a wetsuit but in waders????!!
Allen

Rapid River article
 

Last Saturday, the 5th, a fly fisherman tried to run the river from Middle
Dam
down to the Pond.

That should read "run the river in a kayak..." Damn fool didn't make 100
yards before he lost it. He is damn lucky they were only running 390 cfs,
otherwise he would have been a very large strike indicator somewhere in the
Pond.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Rapid River article
 

Full Immersion Frank writes:

I'll have you know that I got out of my little dip in the Rapid on my own,
the only thing not intact was my pride.

My "WWFD" button fell off my vest while wading at the top of Second Current. I
bent over to pick it up. Once it was in my hand, I lost my balance and did a
Full Reid. Although the water was only two feet deep, I had a heck of a time
getting up. I put the button in a vest pocket and dried off as best I could.
On the very next cast, while stripping the line in, the button's pin stabbed me
in the left forearm. Deep, painfull and bloody.

It is now on the vest with a little piece of 200 mph tape holding the point in
place. Surprisingly, few people have asked me about its meaning, but those
that do get a two or three minute description of who and what a Frank Reid is.

Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Rapid River article
 

On 14 Jun 2004 00:34:06 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

Full Immersion Frank writes:

I'll have you know that I got out of my little dip in the Rapid on my own,
the only thing not intact was my pride.

My "WWFD" button fell off my vest while wading at the top of Second Current. I
bent over to pick it up. Once it was in my hand, I lost my balance and did a
Full Reid. Although the water was only two feet deep, I had a heck of a time
getting up. I put the button in a vest pocket and dried off as best I could.
On the very next cast, while stripping the line in, the button's pin stabbed me
in the left forearm. Deep, painfull and bloody.

It is now on the vest with a little piece of 200 mph tape holding the point in
place. Surprisingly, few people have asked me about its meaning, but those
that do get a two or three minute description of who and what a Frank Reid is.

Not to mention a live demonstration ;-)

/daytripper (Probably a good thing they were running under 400cfs...)

Rapid River article
 

DT writes:

Not to mention a live demonstration ;-)

/daytripper (Probably a good thing they were running under 400cfs...)

Hey, I've gotten ashore after falling off the X rock at Second Current with 900
cfs flowing. Long slow swim to the rocks below Third Current. Lost my hat and
mag-eyes, but saved an old GL3 5 weight. 'Course, I was younger then.....
d;o(
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Rapid River article
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote

Hey, I've gotten ashore after falling off the X rock at Second Current
with 900
cfs flowing. Long slow swim to the rocks below Third Current. Lost my
hat and
mag-eyes, but saved an old GL3 5 weight. 'Course, I was younger
then.....
d;o(


must have been around the late 40's...and to think that i was only
eight...

yfitons
wayno

Rapid River article
 

Wayno writes:

must have been around the late 40's...and to think that i was only
eight...

Yep, about ten years before Jo was born. d;o)

Rapid River article
 

Rapid River article
 

My "WWFD" button fell off my vest while wading at the top of Second
Current. I
bent over to pick it up. Once it was in my hand, I lost my balance and
did a
Full Reid. Although the water was only two feet deep, I had a heck of a
time
getting up. I put the button in a vest pocket and dried off as best I
could.
On the very next cast, while stripping the line in, the button's pin
stabbed me
in the left forearm. Deep, painfull and bloody.

Ah, those pins were imbued with some bad juju. I've lost two of my three
during dunkings. Next time, hell with the pin. I wanna fish with you up
there next year, so I'll wear the damn thing for the rest of the year.

It is now on the vest with a little piece of 200 mph tape holding the
point in
place.

What's the translation between 200 mph and cfs?

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

Rapid River article
 

Flyfish writes:

Hadn't heard the condos were dead, but they'll be back in a year or two
bigger and better wait and see. Someone decided that the camps were more
important to build first. Someone at FPL probably.

Three Islands won't allow the traffic on their access road, nor access from
the south via Black Cat Road. Only way in is by boat. There isn't enough
parking at the Oxford public parking at South Arm, so I don't see the condos
coming in for awhile, anyway. They will eventually find a way, and TU will
help them. *******s!
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Rapid River article
 

"Flyfish" wrote in message
...
irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote in
:

Flyfish writes:

Well my latest Orvis newsletter came in yesterday with a "nice" little
article pimping for restoration money that claims "the best brook
trout fishery" is the rapid.

That will go a long way to lowering the pressure. Idiots.

This week-end is the great bass tournament at Pond in the River. The
fish and game folks told me there would be 40 people fishing the Pond
in hopes of getting rid of some of the bass. They will be lucky if
they catch 40 bass total. The best way to rid the river of bass is to
turn it into a cold water fishery instead of the warm water one it now
is. FPL's total mismanagement of the water flow is part of the
problem. The bass have been in Umbagog since 1984 and have only
recently become a problem. The Richardsons were overflowing with
water in early winter, but instead of bleeding it off normally, they
opened uf the dam and lowered the lake by 7 feet. It is about 5 feet
low right now and the 390 cfs remains. If you call TU and speak to
the Maine bigwigs, you will think you are talking to FPL's CEO.

TU in Maine has lost their statewide focus. They are totally focused on
Shawmut and their "world class" brown trout tailwater. Hardly surprising
since the Kennebec Valley TU took credit for the Edwards dam removal
(despite opposing it originally) that the Maine TU is dominated by
Kennebec Valley after this "stunning" success. TU is kissing FPL's ass
because they want fish ladders on all of FPL's dams on the Kennebec
(which is all the dams I believe). FPL has played the political game well
on the ladders and are likely to get the law changed so they don't
"have" to remove the dam on the Sebasticook in Winslow. FPL said they
were going to breach that dam rather than put a ladder in because it's
too expensive. This caused local outrage and there is now an effort to
"exempt" certain dams from the need for ladders. I expect that FPL will
get key exemptions on the Kennebec which negate the need for ladders
upstream. It worked with the Edwards dam for over 1/2 a century. This
will take at least a decade to play out, and TU will have been their
unwitting partner in not installing the ladders, all because they think
they're going to have atlantic salmon runs of a million fish in 30 years.
What they're really going to have is a great northern pike and smallmouth
fishery.

The bass tourney is just more of their fantasy. You will not clean the
smallmouth out by killing a few. In fact, I do not believe you can clean
the smallmouth out, they do quite well in coldwater elsewhere in the
State.

Also, if the flow is 390 cfs (like it has been since May 14), the
river is easy to fish and the locals flock in. Put the flow at 900
and the fishing pressure is lowered because the "catching" is harder.
Harry (the dam keeper and local poll taker for fish and game) counted
51 people on the river on Memorial Day, from Cedar Stump all the way
to Upper Dam. Sounds like alot of pressure, but it was easy to find a
place to fish.

Haven't been this year. My guide buddy tells me it's a zoo on weekends.

I've heard from a number of people that the Lower Dam structure will
be removed this August. The state fears that if it collapses into the
river below the dam, it will be a negative impact on the brookie
spawning beds. So, if you do not have some pictures of it, best to
take a few now before it becomes history.
Too bad, really. They will leave the wooden shoots and rock
structures.

Sad to hear that. I did get some nice shots last fall.

Also, the condo prolem is dead - or so I've heard. They can't find a
way to get the people in except by boat. However, two cabins *will*
be built on Rifle Point between the cove and the dam. Even more
pressure, but not as bad as it would have been with twelve condos.
Dave

Hadn't heard the condos were dead, but they'll be back in a year or two
bigger and better wait and see. Someone decided that the camps were more
important to build first. Someone at FPL probably.

Flyfish


Flyfish is completely right. We have watched TU's silly games here for way
long. TU will be whining hard when it comes time for the fish ladder
that will let the stripers into their golden playground at Shawmut. THEN
they
will suddenly want a ladder *with inspection/sorting* to keep the stripers
out,
else they loose their playground in about a year, like we did the trout
fishery on
the Kennebec from Waterville to Augusta when they took Edwards out.

People with a cause but no clue are extremely dangerous to themselves
and others, and those folks are sure clueless, especially the " Saviours of
the
Kennebec Atlantic Salmon" (of which there may actually be two , hybidized
with stocked landlocks).

As to condo's, Two camps will lead to condo's. Its the foot in the door
thing.
Thats simply the way things are done here in Maine, one weasel-a-way at a
time.
Once those are there it will only be a matter of time. People who can afford
them will also be able to afford a 20 minute float plane ride to get to
them, and
hiring a boat once a month to come in with a load of propane for the
generators.
Enough money will swing a overland right of way sooner or later.


--
{{ MudFish{('
"Careful with that Axe Eugene."

Rapid River article
 

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:36:31 -0400, "Mudfish\(Co30\)"
wrote:

Flyfish is completely right. We have watched TU's silly games here for way
long. TU will be whining hard when it comes time for the fish ladder
that will let the stripers into their golden playground at Shawmut. THEN
they will suddenly want a ladder *with inspection/sorting* to keep the stripers
out, else they loose their playground in about a year, like we did the trout
fishery on the Kennebec from Waterville to Augusta when they took Edwards out.

People with a cause but no clue are extremely dangerous to themselves
and others, and those folks are sure clueless, especially the " Saviours of
the Kennebec Atlantic Salmon" (of which there may actually be two , hybidized
with stocked landlocks).

As to condo's, Two camps will lead to condo's. Its the foot in the door
thing. Thats simply the way things are done here in Maine, one weasel-a-way at a
time. Once those are there it will only be a matter of time. People who can afford
them will also be able to afford a 20 minute float plane ride to get to
them, and hiring a boat once a month to come in with a load of propane for the
generators.
Enough money will swing a overland right of way sooner or later.

Geeze, Ed! First post for you in - what, years? - and you're just a barrel of
laughs...But, between you and me, I'm waiting for the guided float trips next.

Speaking of float trips: ya gotta take a float using Dave's new toys, they're
a blast!

/daytripper (Maybe even take Dave for a drag behind your jet boat ;-)

Rapid River article
 

just a quick note on the bass event on PIR: it was NOT a TU event; the
main sponsor and organizer was www.flyfishinginmaine.com, essentially
a board very similar to this, with just as diverse a group of members.
FFIM pulled together TU, FFIM, SAM (sportsman's alliance of
maine....essentially the hook & cook, bullet & spin crowd), Maine
IF&W, the Rangeley Region Guides and Sportsman's Association and
Rangeley Lakes Heritage Trust. 35+ fisherman harvested 85 bass under
very windy conditions. All bass were taken by IF&W biologists to do
scale sampling, aging, egg sampling, etc to further understand the
Rapid bass issue. Other issues with the Rapid aside, this was a
monumental occasion. While 85 bass may be a drop in the bucket, for
once diverse sporting groups in Maine came together with a common
goal, working for the common good, rather than fighting for their own
interests. A problem exists, and many folks are finally stepping up to
do something about it, rather than watching it slide by the wayside.
Many other problems exist within the state of maine; your TU
complaints are valid; i would personally like to see them establish a
sub-group to handle the education of young people and return the main
focus of the group to protection and restoration of Maine's coldwater
fisheries (not that education isn't important, but it seems to have
become the main focus). TU Maine needs to take a more active,
agressive approach IMHO. I also am not sure restoration of Atlantic
Salmon is possible in Maine with so many other limiting factors; we
can't even get paper companies on the Kennebec & Andro to moderately
raise dissolved 02 content (that was shot down recently) to simply
imrove the viability of holdover stocked trout, how can we expect to
restore AS. I digress, however. The Bass Event was a success on the
Rapid; we generated positive publicity to the issue, a diverse groups
of folks came together to help protect a valued resource, and at the
end of Saturday night's conclave festivities, Don Palmer, head of the
Save the Rapid coalition, was presented with a check for over $7000.
to help out Maine's most historic fishery. Not bad out of a bunch of
knuckleheads who post on a Maine fly fishing website, myself included.

Not disagreeing or agreeing with your views on Maine TU, FPL,
development (don't get me started on Plum Creek, they are in the
process of destroying the Roach fishery as we speak), but don't
discount this past weekend's actions. Don't view it as a solution, but
a beggining to helping out one of maine's most treasured resources,
and perhaps a start at helping them all.

Rapid River article
 

"tim_s" wrote

.. 35+ fisherman harvested 85 bass under
very windy conditions. All bass were taken by IF&W biologists to do
scale sampling, aging, egg sampling, etc to further understand the
Rapid bass issue. Other issues with the Rapid aside, this was a
monumental occasion. While 85 bass may be a drop in the bucket, for
once diverse sporting groups in Maine came together with a common
goal, working for the common good, rather than fighting for their own
interests. A problem exists, and many folks are finally stepping up to
do something about it, rather than watching it slide by the wayside.

\ i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

wayno

Rapid River article
 

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
. com...

"tim_s" wrote

. 35+ fisherman harvested 85 bass under
very windy conditions. All bass were taken by IF&W biologists to do
scale sampling, aging, egg sampling, etc to further understand the
Rapid bass issue. Other issues with the Rapid aside, this was a
monumental occasion. While 85 bass may be a drop in the bucket, for
once diverse sporting groups in Maine came together with a common
goal, working for the common good, rather than fighting for their own
interests. A problem exists, and many folks are finally stepping up to
do something about it, rather than watching it slide by the wayside.

\ i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length
as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

Still, ya gotta love that egalité, fraternité, common good ****. It ain't
every day that the vast majority of humanity that is trout fans speak with a
single voice.

Wolfgang

Rapid River article
 

wayno writes:

i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

I can't believe you don't know. Bass are a warm water fish and will eat a
fishery to death of all its trout/salman. The Rapid *was* a cold water fishery
without bass. They were illegally introduced to Umbagog in the mid 80s. Maine
has a problem with Bubbuhs who think that bass and pike are more important than
the native fish. Nothing wrong with fishing for bass using any rig you want,
but there is a problem when you try to protect one of the greatest Brook Trout
streams in the country and some asshole introduces bass. You have your
unspoiled Hazel. I have my Rapid which is quickly becoming spoiled. Imagine
bass and pike in Hazel eating all those rainbows and browns. Would you stand
for it? Fish for the bass instead?
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Rapid River article
 

Tim S. writes:

just a quick note on the bass event on PIR: it was NOT a TU event;

I know it wasn't. Hope I didn't give anyone that idea. I *am* disgusted,
however, with TU's support of FPL's water flow on the Rapid. We never had
troubles with the bass before because the Rapid was cold water for all of the
summer. Last year the water temp at PIR was approaching 70 during the 3rd week
in June, making it a *warm water* fishery.

I am glad they got so many bass. That surprises me. I hope they did not catch
very many brookies or landlocks.

I have a serendipity trip there next week. A friend was supposed to go last
week but his sister-in-law died. He had to cancel. He won't go alone, so I
"volunteered" to go for a few days. The flow is still 390, but the weather has
been cool. The river will heat up very quickly at that flow rate.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Rapid River article
 

(tim_s) wrote in
m:

just a quick note on the bass event on PIR: it was NOT a TU event; the
main sponsor and organizer was www.flyfishinginmaine.com, essentially
a board very similar to this, with just as diverse a group of members.
FFIM pulled together TU, FFIM, SAM (sportsman's alliance of
maine....essentially the hook & cook, bullet & spin crowd), Maine
IF&W, the Rangeley Region Guides and Sportsman's Association and
Rangeley Lakes Heritage Trust.

A good post, and some good news. I wasn't trying to put down the event but
it is remniscent of ****ing into the wind, if the biologists can make some
sense of it that's better news.

TU has lost it, lost it years ago IMHO. YMMV

Flyfish

Rapid River article
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:

"tim_s" wrote

. 35+ fisherman harvested 85 bass under

very windy conditions. All bass were taken by IF&W biologists to do
scale sampling, aging, egg sampling, etc to further understand the
Rapid bass issue. Other issues with the Rapid aside, this was a
monumental occasion. While 85 bass may be a drop in the bucket, for
once diverse sporting groups in Maine came together with a common
goal, working for the common good, rather than fighting for their own
interests. A problem exists, and many folks are finally stepping up to
do something about it, rather than watching it slide by the wayside.


\ i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?



Our environment isn't managed only for sport fishermen or more
specifically only for the fish you may prefer.

Willi

Rapid River article
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
wayno writes:

i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

I can't believe you don't know. Bass are a warm water fish and will eat a
fishery to death of all its trout/salman. The Rapid *was* a cold water
fishery
without bass. They were illegally introduced to Umbagog in the mid 80s.
Maine
has a problem with Bubbuhs who think that bass and pike are more important
than
the native fish. Nothing wrong with fishing for bass using any rig you
want,
but there is a problem when you try to protect one of the greatest Brook
Trout
streams in the country and some asshole introduces bass. You have your
unspoiled Hazel. I have my Rapid which is quickly becoming spoiled.
Imagine
bass and pike in Hazel eating all those rainbows and browns. Would you
stand
for it? Fish for the bass instead?
Dave

Wanna restore North America to a pristine state? Well, you could start by
getting your murderous fat white evil welfare ass off of it. :)

Oh, and lest anyone should feign shock over the simple truth, allow me to
point out that:

A: Dave has explicitly stated support for an illegal action in which a lot
of people's grandchildren have been sent to occupy another sovereign nation
and in the process kill thousands of the grandchildren of many thousands of
other people. Now, I'm no legal expert, but I'm fairly certain that here in
the US, any willful and premeditated illegal action with a high probability
of mortality among the victims and which indisputably results in such
mortality is murder.

B: Dave is most certainly fat. I know.....I've met him.

C: Dave is most certainly white (in the vernacular sense). I know.....I've
met him.

D: Dave has assured me (as well as an individual who once wished him simply
"Peace", and to whom he responded with a hearty "**** your peace") that
human beings are inherently evil. Dave is, to a moral certainty, human.
Ergo, Dave is evil. Incidentally, it necessarily follows that
grandchildren, too, are evil.

E. Dave has been on welfare for virtually all of his adult life.

F: Dave wishes for things to be the way they were.

So, who's got a problem with that? :)

Wolfgang

Rapid River article
 

In article , Wolfgang
wrote:

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
snipped


E. Dave has been on welfare for virtually all of his adult life.

snipped

So, who's got a problem with that? :)

Wolfgang

Wolfie,
I'm pretty sure a 20 + year career in the Navy doing SIGINT ain't
welfare.

The other stuff we'll just disagree on and leave it that as I've
decided it's futile to try a persons politics, operating system or
taste in beer.

Allen

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"Allen Epps" wrote in message
et...
In article , Wolfgang
wrote:

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
snipped


E. Dave has been on welfare for virtually all of his adult life.

snipped

So, who's got a problem with that? :)

Wolfgang

Wolfie,
I'm pretty sure a 20 + year career in the Navy doing SIGINT ain't
welfare.

Hm......I guess we just disagree on that one.

The other stuff we'll just disagree on and leave it that as I've
decided it's futile to try a persons politics, operating system or
taste in beer.

Well, if I didn't know better, I'd believe that's about what I've been
saying for the last five years or so. Some of us are just a bit more
verbose about it than others.....um......not that there's anything wrong
with that! Carry on. :)

Wolfgang
with all due respect.....seriously.

Rapid River article
 

Allen Eps writes:



E. Dave has been on welfare for virtually all of his adult life.

snipped

So, who's got a problem with that? :)

Wolfgang

Wolfie,
I'm pretty sure a 20 + year career in the Navy doing SIGINT ain't
welfare.

The other stuff we'll just disagree on and leave it that as I've
decided it's futile to try a persons politics, operating system or
taste in beer.

Allen

So wolfie thinks I've been on welfare all of my adult life? Now, *that* is
funny. That's probably what is wrong with our system; my "welfare" checks have
made me a millionaire a couple of times over. Ya gotta love *those* kinds of
social programs.

BTW, I plonked wolfie many many months ago, so I don't see his posts. But that
one must have been a phunny one.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

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"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
...I plonked wolfie many many months ago....

Ah yes, if ya can't nuke 'em hide from 'em. The military mind......shrewd!

Wolfgang
.....in the navy!......dum de dum dum dum dum dum.... :)
BOO!

Rapid River article
 

On 16 Jun 2004 01:25:31 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:
...checks have made me a millionaire a couple of times over....

UNCLE LOUIE!!! Can y'all show lil' ol' me how to tie a knot...a Hermes
scarf would be SUCH a dreamy teaching tool...

Viper

Rapid River article
 

E. Dave has been on welfare for virtually all of his adult life.
Wolfie,
I'm pretty sure a 20 + year career in the Navy doing SIGINT ain't
welfare.

Hm......I guess we just disagree on that one.

Hold it. I got a dog in this fight, so I'll stop counting my food stamps
(green ones with Jefferson on them, not them ones with the "Great
Communicablator" on them) and chime in.
Number 1: These folks on welfare, they supposed to work?
Number 2: Are you defining "welfare" as any gubmint job, or just the
military life? So, like, air traffic controllers are also on welfare, or
not? I understand "providing for the welfare of," but not being "on
welfare."
Number 3: How 'bout the "quasi military" kinda things, like CIA and DIA and
all the rest of those intel guys. The FBI?
Number 4: How 'bout people taking gubmint grants? For research and the
like?
Number 5: How 'bout people who only have a job because of the gubmint?
Like lawyers (if it twern't for them danged laws, enforced by the gubmint,
we wouldn't have 'em danged lawyers)

See, you're using "welfare" as a trigger word. You throw it at some one who
takes pride in the fact that he has provided for his family, some one to
whom being the recipient of charity is as low as they can personally sink,
emasculating. Would you be so base as to attempt this, knowing the outcome?
Intentionally trying to emasculate one, and in the process, intentionally
trying to inflict collateral damage on many others with a similiar
background? You can't hurt yourself with these words (even though you were
in the same, albeit a bit smaller, boat), but many others can take offense,
especially when you question their life's purpose.
Kenny, in an altogether different thread, Kenny, the guy who's to the left
of communists (hyperbole here), is outraged at Opie for allegedly breaking a
law. And then in this thread, you compare the compensation given to someone
who's made it his life's work defending those laws, national and internation
al, to the social security given to my handicapped brother. My brother,
who, even though illiterate and so crippled he can barely walk 50 feet, has
decided to become the dispatcher for the local volunteer fire department,
just so he can feel a bit better than a charity case.
You've created a barrier to communication with the choice of words. Most
would not try to delve into the concepts inherint in your remark, but
rather, become defensive and attempt to return the pain. I don't know you
all that awful well, some time fishing together, tag team wrasslin' a
bear... So I gotta ask ya, do you really want to continue in this vein,
intentionally ****in' folks off instead of letting them hear your Rush
Limbaugh wanna-be ideas, perhaps even converting a few? You feel lucky
punk? Do ya? (plagerized hyperbole)

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

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"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
way loads of snippage - can't believe I read this far...
I'll give you marks for originality on this one. I have never, to the
best
of my knowledge, been compared to Rush Limbaugh before.

We were less interested in your political leanings than the eerily similar
cheezy beards.

Rapid River article
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
wayno writes:

i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

I can't believe you don't know. Bass are a warm water fish and will eat a
fishery to death of all its trout/salman. The Rapid *was* a cold water
fishery
without bass. They were illegally introduced to Umbagog in the mid 80s.
Maine
has a problem with Bubbuhs who think that bass and pike are more important
than
the native fish.

truth is, louie, i didn't realize that smallmouth bass and pike weren't
"native" to maine.

Nothing wrong with fishing for bass using any rig you want,
but there is a problem when you try to protect one of the greatest Brook
Trout
streams in the country and some asshole introduces bass.

hey, i ain't trying to be combative; just trying to understand. am i
wrong by surmising that if the water is colder than the smallies can handle,
they won't survive, or at least they wouldn't become the dominant species.
thus, it would appear that the villain here is whoever is responsible for
the change in water temp, not ol bubba...

You have your
unspoiled Hazel.

you know, there has been (still may be) considerable rumblings about
taking all the rainbows and browns out of hazel and returning it to its
native state--nothing but brookies. if i were four or five years old, i
might not mind that idea coming to fruition. however, it would take longer
to develop than i likely have to fish, and i am too selfish to lose my time
there.

I have my Rapid which is quickly becoming spoiled. Imagine
bass and pike in Hazel eating all those rainbows and browns. Would you
stand
for it?

well, no doubt i would be ****ed. still, that is a very unlikely
scenario, since there is nothing that anyone could do to raise (or lower)
the water temp in hazel. there are plenty of bass and pike around the mouth
of hazel, btw. but i think my response to any sort of undesirable change
would be to look up a couple of my politically influential republican
friends (that *is* possible, you know) and set them loose on the local
congressman. far more effective than having a "fish in", imho.


Fish for the bass instead?

if they were in there, their asses would be fished for...

yfitons
wayno

Rapid River article
 

"Stan Gula" wrote in message
...
"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
way loads of snippage - can't believe I read this far...
I'll give you marks for originality on this one. I have never, to
the
best
of my knowledge, been compared to Rush Limbaugh before.

We were less interested in your political leanings than the eerily
similar
cheezy beards.

Ah. I wasn't aware that Mr. Limbaugh was sporting a beard. I watched
a segment of his TV show a few years ago. Aside from a mild interest
in the phenomenon of a mediocre hate monger pandering to a slavering
collection of idiots I found both the show and its host dull. I
haven't paid much attention since then. Anyway, I shaved my beard and
cut off about 80% of my hair a couple of weeks ago. Unless the pig
has done likewise, it should once again be pretty easy to tell us
apart.

Wolfgang

Rapid River article
 

wayno writes:

truth is, louie, i didn't realize that smallmouth bass and pike weren't
"native" to maine.

But they *are* native to Maine. They are *not*, however, native to the Rapid
River. An illegal stocking of Umbagog in 1984 introduced them to the river.

Nothing wrong with fishing for bass using any rig you want,
but there is a problem when you try to protect one of the greatest Brook
Trout
streams in the country and some asshole introduces bass.

hey, i ain't trying to be combative; just trying to understand. am i
wrong by surmising that if the water is colder than the smallies can handle,
they won't survive, or at least they wouldn't become the dominant species.
thus, it would appear that the villain here is whoever is responsible for
the change in water temp, not ol bubba...

Duhhhhh! That has been my complaint all along, wayno. The bubbahs introduced
the fish to Umbagog, the body of water the Rapid empties into. It is a warm
water lake with maximum depth about 20 feet. Florida Power and Light (FPL) has
been running the dams for the past four years and have done a terrible job of
it. The water flow in the Rapid today is 390 cfs, little more than a trickle.
(The dam is not a deep water one, drawing water from only about 30 feet, so it
isn't that cold to begin with.) The bass were not a problem when Union Power
owned the dam. They managed the water levels in the Rangeleys far more
efficiently than FPL has. Return the Rapid to a cold water stream (increase
the flow to normal levels in the spring and summer), and most of the bass
problem will go away.

One of the problems is that most of the "concerned" conservationists are in bed
with FPL, with TU being the master whore.


You have your
unspoiled Hazel.

you know, there has been (still may be) considerable rumblings about
taking all the rainbows and browns out of hazel and returning it to its
native state--nothing but brookies. if i were four or five years old, i
might not mind that idea coming to fruition. however, it would take longer
to develop than i likely have to fish, and i am too selfish to lose my time
there.

That would be too bad if they did. It would be a good thing for the stream
(eventually), but would hurt alot of folks who love it as it is.


I have my Rapid which is quickly becoming spoiled. Imagine
bass and pike in Hazel eating all those rainbows and browns. Would you
stand
for it?

well, no doubt i would be ****ed. still, that is a very unlikely
scenario, since there is nothing that anyone could do to raise (or lower)
the water temp in hazel. there are plenty of bass and pike around the mouth
of hazel, btw. but i think my response to any sort of undesirable change
would be to look up a couple of my politically influential republican
friends (that *is* possible, you know) and set them loose on the local
congressman. far more effective than having a "fish in", imho.

I don't think that anyone expected the "fish-in" to have a great impact on the
problem. But it *did* get lots of possitive publicity, and therein lies its
effectiveness.


Fish for the bass instead?

if they were in there, their asses would be fished for...

There are plenty of places in Maine to fish for bass. In fact, bass fishing in
Maine is considered very good. Lots of ponds and lakes to grow big 'uns.
Illegal stocking has become a problem not only in the Rapid, but in other
rivers/lakes in Maine. You will always have that lunatic fringe who think they
know what is best for a waterway. The same thing has happened out west with
the illegal stocking of laketrout. Once a species gets into a watershed, it is
difficult to get them out.

yfitons
wayno

Still waiting for you and yours to come up and fish. Think about
September..........
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

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Frank Reid wrote in news:capcbs$9i8$1
@newslocal.mitre.org:

No one was killed directly by the disgusting
actions of some,

Actually, I think some prison deaths are very likely to be ruled homicides

Scott

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No one was killed directly by the disgusting
actions of some,


Actually, I think some prison deaths are very likely to be ruled homicides

Scott

If that does indeed happen, and there are convictions (military is at
about the 90% rate on convictions for charges filed), I'll retract that.
--
Frank Reid
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