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Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread. What size thread would be recommended to tie these? Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the uknowhat. Any suggestions? Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west. |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
"Hooked" wrote in message
... Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread. What size thread would be recommended to tie these? Bigger than 8/0 for sure. I would normally use a Danville waxed 6/0 for elk hair or deer hair on #16 and larger. Unless I was out of 6/0 and I would then try to get by with 8/0. For #18 and smaller I will use 8/0 and go much sparser on the hair anyways. I don't like Uni for deer or elk hair wings but I can't really say why. I like Uni better for snowshoe hare foot wings. (Man that sounds awkward!) Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the uknowhat. Any suggestions? A very fine toothed mustache comb works for me. I have one with velcro on the handle (useful for picking out guard hairs on nymphs and also for keeping it stuck to my tying bench). Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west. Depends on where you are for sure. For hackle, I usually use grizzly or grizzly dyed in light brown or dark olive. Body color isn't usually too important (where I fish), just dark or light. If you want a good spread, use cream, tan, olive and black. My favorite is bright orange. I tie those by wrapping thin strips of orange flat foam. |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Hooked wrote:
Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread. What size thread would be recommended to tie these? On a 16 you should be able to use 6/0. Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the uknowhat. Any suggestions? I grab the hair by the tips and stroke out the underfur using my fingers. Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west. I dont really think this matters a whole lot (if at all). When I fish these I usually skate the fly across the water. The fish slams it so hard and fast that I dont think they even look at color in the first place. |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
GSP
Lou T |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
On Fri, 28 May 2004 16:42:53 -0500, "Hooked" wrote:
Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread. What size thread would be recommended to tie these? 6/0 uni Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the uknowhat. Any suggestions? If you don't have a good mustache comb, strip the underfur off the bunch with your fingers. Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west. I like natural hares mask blended with lightish olive dubbing. Nice and buggy, and olive is just one of those near universal colors... /daytripper |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Wow--you guys use big thread. I use either 8/0 Uni or 10/0 Gudebrod to tie
size 16 on down EHC's. One trick (if you're not doing it already) for locking in the hair is to *not* just tie on the thread together in one area--but run the thread through the butts of the hair six or 8 times. It locks in the hair without putting undue pressure (so you break the thread) on the wraps. As to colors of bodies--I go with black; Olive; tannish/ginger; and hares ear for my EHC's. Unless you have a need to skate them; just omit the hackle alltogether and tie X-Caddis' or No-Hackle Caddis. They work just as well--or better--than EHC's. Dave M "Hooked" wrote in message ... Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread. What size thread would be recommended to tie these? Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the uknowhat. Any suggestions? Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west. |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
"Hooked" wrote... Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread. What size thread would be recommended to tie these? Just to be contrary, I use 8/0 Uni-Thread. No one ever told me I'd have a problem with it, so I haven't (up till now.) :) Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the uknowhat. Any suggestions? I use my fingertips. Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west. I normally tie and carry some tan (dubbed with synthetic or rabbit and palmered brown or furnace) and some dark bodies (usually made with peacock herl and palmered grizzly.) I've also taken to tying a few of each with rubber legs, Madame X style. -- TL, Tim http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
"Dave Martel" wrote... Wow--you guys use big thread. I use either 8/0 Uni or 10/0 Gudebrod to tie size 16 on down EHC's. One trick (if you're not doing it already) for locking in the hair is to *not* just tie on the thread together in one area--but run the thread through the butts of the hair six or 8 times. It locks in the hair without putting undue pressure (so you break the thread) on the wraps. Yup, that's the way I learned, from Dave Hughes "Trout Flies", I think. Nice little book; I refer to it often. -- TL, Tim http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
I use 8/0 uni thread for the elk hair caddis in sizes 14s and 16s. For 12s,
I may jump up to 6/0 uni. Your difficulties may stem from your choice of hair. The hair should be hollow and not coarse like a porcupine. I usually find myself taking 6 to 8 wraps to secure a wing on a size 16 or 14 and 9 to 12 wraps on a size 12. Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone has some of the best hair I have seen. Your problem could also be the result of using too much hair. The more overdressed the pattern, the more wraps required to mount the wing. Hope this helps, Dan Daufel "Hooked" wrote in message ... Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread. What size thread would be recommended to tie these? Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the uknowhat. Any suggestions? Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west. |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Willi wrote:
Hooked wrote: Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread. What size thread would be recommended to tie these? Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the uknowhat. Any suggestions? You got some good advice from other posters. One thing no one brought up is that all Elk hair is not created equal! Where the fur was taken from the animal, the time of year the Elk was killed, and how it was cared for all contribute to the condition and type of hair. Texture, length, quality color etc. are going to differ. Sometimes patches have alot of underfur and I've gotten some that were sticky. This makes it hard to remove the guard hairs. Washing will get rid of the stickiness. Usually I just use my fingers to pull out the underfur, but on the tougher ones I use a dog flea comb. It has very fine rounded teeth that work very well. I've given up on ordering Elk hair unseen. I never end up getting what I want. The texture or color is often wrong and I often get pieces with lots of broken off tips. I'm sure the fish don't mind but I don't like the way they look. Too true... The best elk hair for smaller flies would either be hock hair or yearling elk hair. And the problem you mentioned with the thread breaking could be due to the hair beings too stiff (as Willi mentioned) or the thread having been exposed to the sun and having gotten damaged. If I'm buying thread in a shop, I usually look to see where they store it, and if it's near a window or anywhere it gets struck by direct sunlight, I unroll a foot or so and wrap it a round a key and see how easy it breaks. I personally don't care much for Uni thread (I know, heresy) because it's a "round thread"... a core of thread wrapped by more fibers. I prefer a thread that can be unwound and flattened, like Danville or Gudebrod. The Gudebrod 10/0 and 8/0 are great threads for smaller flies, but their 6/0 is equivalent in diameter and strength to Uni 6/0. Also, another suggestion for winging material on these smaller EHCs is to try turkey flats. Once the fibers get separated, they look a lot like hair. Larry |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
"Willi" wrote in message ... Hooked wrote: Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread. What size thread would be recommended to tie these? Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the uknowhat. Any suggestions? You got some good advice from other posters. One thing no one brought up is that all Elk hair is not created equal! Where the fur was taken from the animal, the time of year the Elk was killed, and how it was cared for all contribute to the condition and type of hair. Texture, length, quality color etc. are going to differ. Sometimes patches have alot of underfur and I've gotten some that were sticky. This makes it hard to remove the guard hairs. Washing will get rid of the stickiness. Usually I just use my fingers to pull out the underfur, but on the tougher ones I use a dog flea comb. It has very fine rounded teeth that work very well. I've given up on ordering Elk hair unseen. I never end up getting what I want. The texture or color is often wrong and I often get pieces with lots of broken off tips. I'm sure the fish don't mind but I don't like the way they look. Willi Good advice. I have returned a number of hides, because the elk or deer was "dragged" out, thus broken tips. Watch out also for bleached elk or deer. (They can become so brittle, they are more or less unusable depending on how they are processed) Oh . . .I use 8/0 for Elk Hair Caddis starting at size 14 and smaller. Use it down to size 20. . . .hmm . . . sometimes. DaveMohnsen Denver |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
"Larry Medina" wrote in message
. com... Also, another suggestion for winging material on these smaller EHCs is to try turkey flats. Once the fibers get separated, they look a lot like hair. Larry Now there's a good idea! I have a few packages of flats that I've never even tried for anything (I got sold on them as dry fly wing material). |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Ok, thanks for all the help.
So far most of you use 6/0 for a size 16 EHC. I still think that's a bit large for that size fly. I will give it a try, but I'll probably stick with the 8/0. As for removing the under-fur, I use a mustache comb for combing out all my tying hairs. For some reason this stuff does seem to be a little sticky, so I'll try shampooing it to see if that helps. As for the color, I got the idea for using olive fur for the body from a website that was based in MI. which is just across the pond from me here in WI. I figured the species couldn't be too different for the general region. Yesterday, I did notice a caddis fly on the windshield of my truck and noticed that the body, and the wings, were a light tan to almost white. So I'll try using a cream dubbing fur. Now there was also mention of the type of hair to use. I'm using a patch from Umpqua that is labeled "Elk Body Hair Bleached Ginger." It does seem to be somewhat brittle, but not as bad as some hairs I've tied with. It does flair out bit but not like deer body. I'll go back to the local shop and scrounge around to see if they have a better patch I could use. I bought this patch a few years back for some pattern that I don't recall. Just had it in my box of stuff and wanted to tie up some EHC's so I used it. Now I have one more question. Noticing the caddis fly on my windshield, it had quite prominent antennae. Do any of you tie something in for the antennae? I know the Goddard's Caddis calls for it. But what about for the EHC? |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
"Hooked" wrote in message
... snip Noticing the caddis fly on my windshield, it had quite prominent antennae. Do any of you tie something in for the antennae? I know the Goddard's Caddis calls for it. But what about for the EHC? I don't add antennae because: 1. I don't think it matters much 2. They tend to get tangled in the tippet |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
On Sun, 30 May 2004 21:25:30 GMT, "Stan Gula"
wrote: "Hooked" wrote in message ... snip Noticing the caddis fly on my windshield, it had quite prominent antennae. Do any of you tie something in for the antennae? I know the Goddard's Caddis calls for it. But what about for the EHC? I don't add antennae because: 1. I don't think it matters much 2. They tend to get tangled in the tippet Dittos. EHC are the worker-bee of trout flies but like all flies they work best when actually on the water. Messing about with twisted up antennae isn't part of the equation. I'm all for simple ties for this pattern. No hackle, no antennae, tie for durability, and matching the hatch colors does help... /daytripper |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
"daytripper" wrote in message
... I don't add antennae because: 1. I don't think it matters much 2. They tend to get tangled in the tippet Dittos. EHC are the worker-bee of trout flies but like all flies they work best when actually on the water. Messing about with twisted up antennae isn't part of the equation. I'm all for simple ties for this pattern. No hackle, no antennae, tie for durability, and matching the hatch colors does help... /daytripper I was sitting at my desk this evening catching up on some work and a small insect landed on a pad right in front of me. I figured it was just a little moth and was getting ready to flick it, and I decided to take a closer look. It was a small (#18) caddis! And I live almost a mile from the nearest stream. It has a light tan body (it was nice enough to let me peak under it's tent) and it had beautiful dark tan wings with black spots. And pronounced antennae that looked like they would tangle my tippetg. -- Stan Gula |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Stan was amazed to find a caddis on his desk so far from the water.
--------------- Them buggers get around for sure. Perhaps you caught bugmasters TR where we encountered zillions of caddis a few weeks back. Twelve miles of float so thick they covered the boat and everything else. Actually, I wanted to comment on flies I tie for fishin' and those I tie or try to tie for looks. My last contribution to a fly swap was a anemic looking tube fly. Frankly, I catch more fish with those skimpy flies than I did with the fully dressed types. I agree, having stuff on a fly that tangles of adds to the complexity that may or may not add to its fish appeal is worth considering leaving off, in my opinion. Chris |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Larry Medina wrote: Also, another suggestion for winging material on these smaller EHCs is to try turkey flats. Once the fibers get separated, they look a lot like hair. How about flotation? I'd think they absorb alot of water? For a small skittering type caddis with a front hackle, I like stacked guard hairs from mink tails. I tie them long so they extend the same amount as a conventional tail. They're very stiff and light and result in a very animated fly. (not my pattern but I don't remember where I got it) Willi |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
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Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Willi writes:
For a small skittering type caddis with a front hackle, I like stacked guard hairs from mink tails...... not my pattern but I don't remember where I got it Leonard Wright, I believe, wrote about it in the 1960's, maybe before. Tom |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Willi wrote:
Larry Medina wrote: Also, another suggestion for winging material on these smaller EHCs is to try turkey flats. Once the fibers get separated, they look a lot like hair. How about flotation? I'd think they absorb alot of water? They float just fine. Never have had a problem with them getting waterlogged. For a small skittering type caddis with a front hackle, I like stacked guard hairs from mink tails. I tie them long so they extend the same amount as a conventional tail. They're very stiff and light and result in a very animated fly. (not my pattern but I don't remember where I got it) I usually go to a King's River Caddis or a Hemingway for skittering. Larry |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
I've had good luck skittering the "Goddard Caddis"
Gene "Larry Medina" wrote in message m... Snip I usually go to a King's River Caddis or a Hemingway for skittering. Larry |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Gene Cottrell wrote: I've had good luck skittering the "Goddard Caddis" Gene "Larry Medina" wrote in message m... Snip I usually go to a King's River Caddis or a Hemingway for skittering. Larry I fish alot of skittered flies on my home river. In the Summer it's a deadly technique. When the fish are onto it, I've even skittered nymphs across the surface with success. You can skitter just about every thing but I've found that the best skittering caddis flies are as light as possible with longer than normal wings that support the fly and a couple extra wraps of hackle. These are more animated on the water. A "good" one will roll when given a little nudge if it's set on a hard surface. They bounce and hop and roll and they're easy to give subtle movement when that's called for. Another technique I like to use is to put a soft hackle on a dropper behind the dry. This serves as an anchor and you can bounce the dry on top of the water by lifting the line so the dry leaves the water with the soft hackle still submerged. You'll also get lots of fish on the soft hackle. Willi |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Kevin Vang wrote: In article , says... For a small skittering type caddis with a front hackle, I like stacked guard hairs from mink tails. I tie them long so they extend the same amount as a conventional tail. They're very stiff and light and result in a very animated fly. (not my pattern but I don't remember where I got it) It sounds like Leonard Wright's Fluttering Caddis fly, from back in the 70's. I tie something similar too. That's it. Willi |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Willi wrote in news:40bdd902$0$200$75868355
@news.frii.net: Another technique I like to use is to put a soft hackle on a dropper behind the dry. This serves as an anchor and you can bounce the dry on top of the water by lifting the line so the dry leaves the water with the soft hackle still submerged. You'll also get lots of fish on the soft hackle. Now THAT sounds like a great tip. Haven't heard that one before. Scott |
Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
Scott Seidman wrote: Willi wrote in news:40bdd902$0$200$75868355 @news.frii.net: Another technique I like to use is to put a soft hackle on a dropper behind the dry. This serves as an anchor and you can bounce the dry on top of the water by lifting the line so the dry leaves the water with the soft hackle still submerged. You'll also get lots of fish on the soft hackle. Now THAT sounds like a great tip. Haven't heard that one before. Scott It's based on the old technique of fishing a "cast" of wets. That's also fun and can be productive partly because it's something the fish haven't seen. I usually use soft hackles instead of traditional wets. I'd use it more, it's a fun way to fish, but it's a pain to set up. Willi |
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