Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?

Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?

Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown
hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine
types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west.

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

"Hooked" wrote in message
...
Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?

Bigger than 8/0 for sure. I would normally use a Danville waxed 6/0 for elk
hair or deer hair on #16 and larger. Unless I was out of 6/0 and I would
then try to get by with 8/0. For #18 and smaller I will use 8/0 and go much
sparser on the hair anyways. I don't like Uni for deer or elk hair wings
but I can't really say why. I like Uni better for snowshoe hare foot wings.
(Man that sounds awkward!)

Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?

A very fine toothed mustache comb works for me. I have one with velcro on
the handle (useful for picking out guard hairs on nymphs and also for
keeping it stuck to my tying bench).

Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman
brown
hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine
types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west.

Depends on where you are for sure. For hackle, I usually use grizzly or
grizzly dyed in light brown or dark olive. Body color isn't usually too
important (where I fish), just dark or light. If you want a good spread,
use cream, tan, olive and black. My favorite is bright orange. I tie those
by wrapping thin strips of orange flat foam.

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Hooked wrote:

Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?

On a 16 you should be able to use 6/0.



Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?


I grab the hair by the tips and stroke out the underfur using my fingers.



Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown
hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine
types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west.

I dont really think this matters a whole lot (if at all). When I fish these I
usually skate the fly across
the water. The fish slams it so hard and fast that I dont think they even look
at color in the first
place.

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

GSP

Lou T

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

On Fri, 28 May 2004 16:42:53 -0500, "Hooked" wrote:

Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?

6/0 uni

Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?

If you don't have a good mustache comb, strip the underfur off the bunch with
your fingers.

Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown
hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine
types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west.

I like natural hares mask blended with lightish olive dubbing. Nice and buggy,
and olive is just one of those near universal colors...

/daytripper

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Wow--you guys use big thread. I use either 8/0 Uni or 10/0 Gudebrod to tie
size 16 on down EHC's. One trick (if you're not doing it already) for
locking in the hair is to *not* just tie on the thread together in one
area--but run the thread through the butts of the hair six or 8 times. It
locks in the hair without putting undue pressure (so you break the thread)
on the wraps.

As to colors of bodies--I go with black; Olive; tannish/ginger; and hares
ear for my EHC's. Unless you have a need to skate them; just omit the hackle
alltogether and tie X-Caddis' or No-Hackle Caddis. They work just as
well--or better--than EHC's.

Dave M
"Hooked" wrote in message
...
Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?

Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?

Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman
brown
hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine
types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west.

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

"Hooked" wrote...
Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?

Just to be contrary, I use 8/0 Uni-Thread. No one ever told me I'd have a
problem with it, so I haven't (up till now.) :)

Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?

I use my fingertips.

Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman brown
hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine
types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west.

I normally tie and carry some tan (dubbed with synthetic or rabbit and palmered
brown or furnace) and some dark bodies (usually made with peacock herl and
palmered grizzly.) I've also taken to tying a few of each with rubber legs,
Madame X style.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

"Dave Martel" wrote...
Wow--you guys use big thread. I use either 8/0 Uni or 10/0 Gudebrod to tie
size 16 on down EHC's. One trick (if you're not doing it already) for
locking in the hair is to *not* just tie on the thread together in one
area--but run the thread through the butts of the hair six or 8 times. It
locks in the hair without putting undue pressure (so you break the thread)
on the wraps.

Yup, that's the way I learned, from Dave Hughes "Trout Flies", I think. Nice
little book; I refer to it often.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Hooked wrote:

Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?

Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?

You got some good advice from other posters. One thing no one brought up
is that all Elk hair is not created equal! Where the fur was taken from
the animal, the time of year the Elk was killed, and how it was cared
for all
contribute to the condition and type of hair. Texture, length, quality
color etc. are going to differ. Sometimes patches have alot of underfur
and I've gotten some that were sticky. This makes it hard to remove the
guard hairs. Washing will get rid of the stickiness. Usually I just use
my fingers to pull out the underfur, but on the tougher ones I use a dog
flea comb. It has very fine rounded teeth that work very well.

I've given up on ordering Elk hair unseen. I never end up getting what I
want. The texture or color is often wrong and I often get pieces with
lots of broken off tips. I'm sure the fish don't mind but I don't like
the way they look.

Willi

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

I use 8/0 uni thread for the elk hair caddis in sizes 14s and 16s. For 12s,
I may jump up to 6/0 uni. Your difficulties may stem from your choice of
hair. The hair should be hollow and not coarse like a porcupine. I usually
find myself taking 6 to 8 wraps to secure a wing on a size 16 or 14 and 9 to
12 wraps on a size 12. Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone has some of
the best hair I have seen. Your problem could also be the result of using
too much hair. The more overdressed the pattern, the more wraps required to
mount the wing.

Hope this helps,
Dan Daufel


"Hooked" wrote in message
...
Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?

Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?

Also, what color bodies work best? I used a light olive and a coachman
brown
hackle. Would a tan body work better? If location is needed to determine
types of hatches, I'll be fishing in the upper mid-west.

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Willi wrote:


Hooked wrote:

Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the
thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?


Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?


You got some good advice from other posters. One thing no one brought up
is that all Elk hair is not created equal! Where the fur was taken from
the animal, the time of year the Elk was killed, and how it was cared
for all
contribute to the condition and type of hair. Texture, length, quality
color etc. are going to differ. Sometimes patches have alot of underfur
and I've gotten some that were sticky. This makes it hard to remove the
guard hairs. Washing will get rid of the stickiness. Usually I just use
my fingers to pull out the underfur, but on the tougher ones I use a dog
flea comb. It has very fine rounded teeth that work very well.

I've given up on ordering Elk hair unseen. I never end up getting what I
want. The texture or color is often wrong and I often get pieces with
lots of broken off tips. I'm sure the fish don't mind but I don't like
the way they look.

Too true...

The best elk hair for smaller flies would either be hock hair or
yearling elk hair. And the problem you mentioned with the thread
breaking could be due to the hair beings too stiff (as Willi mentioned)
or the thread having been exposed to the sun and having gotten damaged.
If I'm buying thread in a shop, I usually look to see where they store
it, and if it's near a window or anywhere it gets struck by direct
sunlight, I unroll a foot or so and wrap it a round a key and see how
easy it breaks.

I personally don't care much for Uni thread (I know, heresy) because
it's a "round thread"... a core of thread wrapped by more fibers. I
prefer a thread that can be unwound and flattened, like Danville or
Gudebrod. The Gudebrod 10/0 and 8/0 are great threads for smaller
flies, but their 6/0 is equivalent in diameter and strength to Uni 6/0.

Also, another suggestion for winging material on these smaller EHCs is
to try turkey flats. Once the fibers get separated, they look a lot
like hair.

Larry

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

"Willi" wrote in message
...
Hooked wrote:
Last night I tried tying up some size 16 EHC's. Being that I was using a
size 16 hook, I opted for 8/0 Uni-Thread. I couldn't put a whole lot of
pressure on the thread to secure the elk hair without breaking the
thread.
What size thread would be recommended to tie these?
Trying to comb out the underfur from the elk hair was a pain in the
uknowhat. Any suggestions?
You got some good advice from other posters. One thing no one brought up
is that all Elk hair is not created equal! Where the fur was taken from
the animal, the time of year the Elk was killed, and how it was cared
for all
contribute to the condition and type of hair. Texture, length, quality
color etc. are going to differ. Sometimes patches have alot of underfur
and I've gotten some that were sticky. This makes it hard to remove the
guard hairs. Washing will get rid of the stickiness. Usually I just use
my fingers to pull out the underfur, but on the tougher ones I use a dog
flea comb. It has very fine rounded teeth that work very well.
I've given up on ordering Elk hair unseen. I never end up getting what I
want. The texture or color is often wrong and I often get pieces with
lots of broken off tips. I'm sure the fish don't mind but I don't like
the way they look.

Willi


Good advice. I have returned a number of hides, because the elk or deer was
"dragged" out, thus broken tips.
Watch out also for bleached elk or deer. (They can become so brittle, they
are more or less unusable depending on how they are processed)
Oh . . .I use 8/0 for Elk Hair Caddis starting at size 14 and smaller. Use
it down to size 20. . . .hmm . . . sometimes.
DaveMohnsen
Denver

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

"Larry Medina" wrote in message
. com...
Also, another suggestion for winging material on these smaller EHCs is
to try turkey flats. Once the fibers get separated, they look a lot
like hair.

Larry

Now there's a good idea! I have a few packages of flats that I've never
even tried for anything (I got sold on them as dry fly wing material).

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Ok, thanks for all the help.

So far most of you use 6/0 for a size 16 EHC. I still think that's a bit
large for that size fly. I will give it a try, but I'll probably stick with
the 8/0.

As for removing the under-fur, I use a mustache comb for combing out all my
tying hairs. For some reason this stuff does seem to be a little sticky, so
I'll try shampooing it to see if that helps.

As for the color, I got the idea for using olive fur for the body from a
website that was based in MI. which is just across the pond from me here in
WI. I figured the species couldn't be too different for the general region.
Yesterday, I did notice a caddis fly on the windshield of my truck and
noticed that the body, and the wings, were a light tan to almost white. So
I'll try using a cream dubbing fur.

Now there was also mention of the type of hair to use. I'm using a patch
from Umpqua that is labeled "Elk Body Hair Bleached Ginger." It does seem to
be somewhat brittle, but not as bad as some hairs I've tied with. It does
flair out bit but not like deer body. I'll go back to the local shop and
scrounge around to see if they have a better patch I could use. I bought
this patch a few years back for some pattern that I don't recall. Just had
it in my box of stuff and wanted to tie up some EHC's so I used it.

Now I have one more question.

Noticing the caddis fly on my windshield, it had quite prominent antennae.
Do any of you tie something in for the antennae? I know the Goddard's Caddis
calls for it. But what about for the EHC?

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

"Hooked" wrote in message
...
snip
Noticing the caddis fly on my windshield, it had quite prominent antennae.
Do any of you tie something in for the antennae? I know the Goddard's
Caddis
calls for it. But what about for the EHC?


I don't add antennae because:
1. I don't think it matters much
2. They tend to get tangled in the tippet

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

On Sun, 30 May 2004 21:25:30 GMT, "Stan Gula"
wrote:

"Hooked" wrote in message
...
snip
Noticing the caddis fly on my windshield, it had quite prominent antennae.
Do any of you tie something in for the antennae? I know the Goddard's
Caddis
calls for it. But what about for the EHC?


I don't add antennae because:
1. I don't think it matters much
2. They tend to get tangled in the tippet

Dittos. EHC are the worker-bee of trout flies but like all flies they work
best when actually on the water. Messing about with twisted up antennae isn't
part of the equation. I'm all for simple ties for this pattern. No hackle, no
antennae, tie for durability, and matching the hatch colors does help...

/daytripper

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

"daytripper" wrote in message
...
I don't add antennae because:
1. I don't think it matters much
2. They tend to get tangled in the tippet

Dittos. EHC are the worker-bee of trout flies but like all flies they work
best when actually on the water. Messing about with twisted up antennae
isn't
part of the equation. I'm all for simple ties for this pattern. No hackle,
no
antennae, tie for durability, and matching the hatch colors does help...

/daytripper

I was sitting at my desk this evening catching up on some work and a small
insect landed on a pad right in front of me. I figured it was just a little
moth and was getting ready to flick it, and I decided to take a closer look.
It was a small (#18) caddis! And I live almost a mile from the nearest
stream. It has a light tan body (it was nice enough to let me peak under
it's tent) and it had beautiful dark tan wings with black spots. And
pronounced antennae that looked like they would tangle my tippetg.

--
Stan Gula

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Stan was amazed to find a caddis on his desk so far from the water.
---------------
Them buggers get around for sure. Perhaps you caught bugmasters TR where we
encountered zillions of caddis a few weeks back. Twelve miles of float so
thick they covered the boat and everything else. Actually, I wanted to
comment on flies I tie for fishin' and those I tie or try to tie for looks.
My last contribution to a fly swap was a anemic looking tube fly. Frankly,
I catch more fish with those skimpy flies than I did with the fully dressed
types. I agree, having stuff on a fly that tangles of adds to the
complexity that may or may not add to its fish appeal is worth considering
leaving off, in my opinion.

Chris

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Larry Medina wrote:

Also, another suggestion for winging material on these smaller EHCs is
to try turkey flats. Once the fibers get separated, they look a lot
like hair.


How about flotation? I'd think they absorb alot of water?

For a small skittering type caddis with a front hackle, I like stacked
guard hairs from mink tails. I tie them long so they extend the same
amount as a conventional tail. They're very stiff and light and result
in a very animated fly. (not my pattern but I don't remember where I got it)

Willi

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

In article ,
says...

For a small skittering type caddis with a front hackle, I like stacked
guard hairs from mink tails. I tie them long so they extend the same
amount as a conventional tail. They're very stiff and light and result
in a very animated fly. (not my pattern but I don't remember where I got it)


It sounds like Leonard Wright's Fluttering Caddis fly, from back in the
70's. I tie something similar too.

I like mink tails a lot. They are perfect for tailing mayfly patterns:
stiffer than hackle fibers, but finer than deer hair or bucktail.

Kevin

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Willi writes:
For a small skittering type caddis with a front hackle, I like stacked
guard hairs from mink tails......
not my pattern but I don't remember where I got it

Leonard Wright, I believe, wrote about it in the 1960's, maybe before.
Tom

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Willi wrote:



Larry Medina wrote:

Also, another suggestion for winging material on these smaller EHCs is
to try turkey flats. Once the fibers get separated, they look a lot
like hair.



How about flotation? I'd think they absorb alot of water?

They float just fine. Never have had a problem with them getting
waterlogged.

For a small skittering type caddis with a front hackle, I like stacked
guard hairs from mink tails. I tie them long so they extend the same
amount as a conventional tail. They're very stiff and light and result
in a very animated fly. (not my pattern but I don't remember where I got
it)

I usually go to a King's River Caddis or a Hemingway for skittering.

Larry

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

I've had good luck skittering the "Goddard Caddis"

Gene

"Larry Medina" wrote in message
m...
Snip
I usually go to a King's River Caddis or a Hemingway for skittering.

Larry

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Gene Cottrell wrote:

I've had good luck skittering the "Goddard Caddis"

Gene

"Larry Medina" wrote in message
m...
Snip

I usually go to a King's River Caddis or a Hemingway for skittering.

Larry




I fish alot of skittered flies on my home river. In the Summer it's a
deadly technique. When the fish are onto it, I've even skittered nymphs
across the surface with success.

You can skitter just about every thing but I've found that the best
skittering caddis flies are as light as possible with longer than normal
wings that support the fly and a couple extra wraps of hackle. These are
more animated on the water. A "good" one will roll when given a little
nudge if it's set on a hard surface. They bounce and hop and roll and
they're easy to give subtle movement when that's called for.

Another technique I like to use is to put a soft hackle on a dropper
behind the dry. This serves as an anchor and you can bounce the dry on
top of the water by lifting the line so the dry leaves the water with
the soft hackle still submerged. You'll also get lots of fish on the
soft hackle.

Willi

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Kevin Vang wrote:
In article ,
says...


For a small skittering type caddis with a front hackle, I like stacked
guard hairs from mink tails. I tie them long so they extend the same
amount as a conventional tail. They're very stiff and light and result
in a very animated fly. (not my pattern but I don't remember where I got it)



It sounds like Leonard Wright's Fluttering Caddis fly, from back in the
70's. I tie something similar too.


That's it.


Willi

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Willi wrote in news:40bdd902$0$200$75868355
@news.frii.net:

Another technique I like to use is to put a soft hackle on a dropper
behind the dry. This serves as an anchor and you can bounce the dry on
top of the water by lifting the line so the dry leaves the water with
the soft hackle still submerged. You'll also get lots of fish on the
soft hackle.

Now THAT sounds like a great tip. Haven't heard that one before.

Scott

Size 16 Elk Hair Caddis ???
 

Scott Seidman wrote:

Willi wrote in news:40bdd902$0$200$75868355
@news.frii.net:


Another technique I like to use is to put a soft hackle on a dropper
behind the dry. This serves as an anchor and you can bounce the dry on
top of the water by lifting the line so the dry leaves the water with
the soft hackle still submerged. You'll also get lots of fish on the
soft hackle.


Now THAT sounds like a great tip. Haven't heard that one before.

Scott

It's based on the old technique of fishing a "cast" of wets. That's also
fun and can be productive partly because it's something the fish haven't
seen. I usually use soft hackles instead of traditional wets. I'd use it
more, it's a fun way to fish, but it's a pain to set up.

Willi