waders rant
 

I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

I do most of my shopping at a local fly shop that will remain
annonymous. The owner is the NICEST guy, who has treated me *INCREDIBLY*
well (just want to make that clear).

He traded some quality waders for work I did for him (again, I praise
him for this). The waders were medium king sized (I am a big guy). The
associate was concerned that they were tight, and said he was worried
they might bust a seem in the stomach. The owner (this is very
important) said special sized waders would be $100 more and RECOMMENDED
that I get the medium kings, which is what I did. THE OWNER OF THE SHOP
RECOMMENDED THAT I GET THE WADERS. These were waders that he had in the
shop for some time that a customer ordered but never came in to buy.

About 3 months later I started to get leaks in them, and the material in
the bottom of the feet started wearing out. All the leaks were knee
level or bellow.

I called the manufacturer and they agreed that I could return the waders
to the store, and that instead of medium kings I needed specially made
waders. They told me to email them all the pertinent info, they would
make the waders and charge me $40.

They called the fly shop owner, who told them I insisted on getting the
waders even tho they told me not to. This was untrue. The associate most
definitely did say that the waders could tear at the stomach, but the
owner said that I should get them.

Thus, the manufacturer VOIDED my warranty, and if I want the specially
made waders I have to pay $270. The fly shop said they will try to
repair the leaks, but I am still without a WARRANTY plus without the
brand new specially sized waders for $40.

The owner IS a really nice guy, but I got screwed so incredibly hard.

waders rant
 

Steve Sullivan wrote:

I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.


Print out this post or rewrite it and mail it to the owner. If he really
has treated you incredibly well in the past, he should do right by you.
If not **** him and never go there again.

Willi

waders rant
 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Steve Sullivan wrote:

I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

Hey that really sucks. BTW my unscientific intuition about Simms is that
their motto should be something along the lines of:

we make the best stuff, everything else sucks, you'll be lucky if you can
afford this

as opposed to

the customer is always right.

I bought the large because the medium king was unavailable and I needed a
new pair of waders ASAP. The other thing about Simms is that their sizes
seem a little small. I'm 5'8 and 175 lbs. When I tried on the mediums I
thought the seams would burst in the thighs if I did a squat. They must
expect that most people have legs like chickens.

Mu

waders rant
 

The waders were not simms.


In article
. umich.edu,
Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Steve Sullivan wrote:

I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

Hey that really sucks. BTW my unscientific intuition about Simms is that
their motto should be something along the lines of:

we make the best stuff, everything else sucks, you'll be lucky if you can
afford this

as opposed to

the customer is always right.

I bought the large because the medium king was unavailable and I needed a
new pair of waders ASAP. The other thing about Simms is that their sizes
seem a little small. I'm 5'8 and 175 lbs. When I tried on the mediums I
thought the seams would burst in the thighs if I did a squat. They must
expect that most people have legs like chickens.

Mu

waders rant
 

The waders were not simms.

ADG?

Frank

waders rant
 

Wow, what a tear jerking tale......Sounds like ya have like 2 options: 1. go
back and give the fella the $270.00, B. go elsewhere and buy a pair of
waders, or A.-wade without waders... Cabela's has an excellent wader for
under $100.00... A small peace of advice here from an x-fatguy, loose some
weight!!!
Sr.



"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

I do most of my shopping at a local fly shop that will remain
annonymous. The owner is the NICEST guy, who has treated me *INCREDIBLY*
well (just want to make that clear).

He traded some quality waders for work I did for him (again, I praise
him for this). The waders were medium king sized (I am a big guy). The
associate was concerned that they were tight, and said he was worried
they might bust a seem in the stomach. The owner (this is very
important) said special sized waders would be $100 more and RECOMMENDED
that I get the medium kings, which is what I did. THE OWNER OF THE SHOP
RECOMMENDED THAT I GET THE WADERS. These were waders that he had in the
shop for some time that a customer ordered but never came in to buy.

About 3 months later I started to get leaks in them, and the material in
the bottom of the feet started wearing out. All the leaks were knee
level or bellow.

I called the manufacturer and they agreed that I could return the waders
to the store, and that instead of medium kings I needed specially made
waders. They told me to email them all the pertinent info, they would
make the waders and charge me $40.

They called the fly shop owner, who told them I insisted on getting the
waders even tho they told me not to. This was untrue. The associate most
definitely did say that the waders could tear at the stomach, but the
owner said that I should get them.

Thus, the manufacturer VOIDED my warranty, and if I want the specially
made waders I have to pay $270. The fly shop said they will try to
repair the leaks, but I am still without a WARRANTY plus without the
brand new specially sized waders for $40.

The owner IS a really nice guy, but I got screwed so incredibly hard.

waders rant
 

Steve Sullivan wrote in news:none-501831.14570525032004
@news.sf.sbcglobal.net:

I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

The owner basically said that the waders wouldn't fail because they were
stretched, and based on where they failed, they didn't.

It was you who let the guy talk you into getting a size other than what you
wanted. It was you who tried to use the warranty to get a custom size. If
you hadn't mentioned sizing when you spoke with the manufacturer, it never
would have come up, and you would have gotten a replacement pair of the
same size.

You contracted for a guy under a barter system for something you didn't
need. Work for cash--its much simpler.

Scott

waders rant
 

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Steve Sullivan wrote:

The waders were not simms.

d:-o

Mu

waders rant
 

In article ,
"Frank Reid" wrote:

The waders were not simms.

ADG?

Frank

At this point I am not going to mention either the name of the
manufacturer or fly shop. I will first give them a chance to rectify the
situation.

waders rant
 

Wow,

I glad it ws not me.(just for the record)

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

I do most of my shopping at a local fly shop that will remain
annonymous. The owner is the NICEST guy, who has treated me *INCREDIBLY*
well (just want to make that clear).

He traded some quality waders for work I did for him (again, I praise
him for this). The waders were medium king sized (I am a big guy). The
associate was concerned that they were tight, and said he was worried
they might bust a seem in the stomach. The owner (this is very
important) said special sized waders would be $100 more and RECOMMENDED
that I get the medium kings, which is what I did. THE OWNER OF THE SHOP
RECOMMENDED THAT I GET THE WADERS. These were waders that he had in the
shop for some time that a customer ordered but never came in to buy.

About 3 months later I started to get leaks in them, and the material in
the bottom of the feet started wearing out. All the leaks were knee
level or bellow.

I called the manufacturer and they agreed that I could return the waders
to the store, and that instead of medium kings I needed specially made
waders. They told me to email them all the pertinent info, they would
make the waders and charge me $40.

They called the fly shop owner, who told them I insisted on getting the
waders even tho they told me not to. This was untrue. The associate most
definitely did say that the waders could tear at the stomach, but the
owner said that I should get them.

Thus, the manufacturer VOIDED my warranty, and if I want the specially
made waders I have to pay $270. The fly shop said they will try to
repair the leaks, but I am still without a WARRANTY plus without the
brand new specially sized waders for $40.

The owner IS a really nice guy, but I got screwed so incredibly hard.

waders rant
 

There are tons of places to buy fly fishing equipment now so don't ever go
back to a retailer that you don't feel comfortable with.

A good fly shop could fit you better over the phone than it sounds like from
your report.

I am short, fat with short legs and small feet so I have to get custom
waders that are $50 more.

Also, I don't see any waders other than Simms that are worth buying in the
US. Patagonia is still in the R&D catch-up mode with Simms especially for
fit. We got tired of closing out thousands of dollars worth of redesigned
waders every year that did not fit people well.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Willi" wrote in message
...


Steve Sullivan wrote:

I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.


Print out this post or rewrite it and mail it to the owner. If he really
has treated you incredibly well in the past, he should do right by you.
If not **** him and never go there again.

Willi

waders rant
 

Hi Bill, I took the waders to Fish First in Chico and they suggested I
contact the Colorado Better Business Bureu. Anyone think that would be
worth the effort?


In article ,
"Bill Kiene" wrote:

Wow,

I glad it ws not me.(just for the record)

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

I do most of my shopping at a local fly shop that will remain
annonymous. The owner is the NICEST guy, who has treated me *INCREDIBLY*
well (just want to make that clear).

He traded some quality waders for work I did for him (again, I praise
him for this). The waders were medium king sized (I am a big guy). The
associate was concerned that they were tight, and said he was worried
they might bust a seem in the stomach. The owner (this is very
important) said special sized waders would be $100 more and RECOMMENDED
that I get the medium kings, which is what I did. THE OWNER OF THE SHOP
RECOMMENDED THAT I GET THE WADERS. These were waders that he had in the
shop for some time that a customer ordered but never came in to buy.

About 3 months later I started to get leaks in them, and the material in
the bottom of the feet started wearing out. All the leaks were knee
level or bellow.

I called the manufacturer and they agreed that I could return the waders
to the store, and that instead of medium kings I needed specially made
waders. They told me to email them all the pertinent info, they would
make the waders and charge me $40.

They called the fly shop owner, who told them I insisted on getting the
waders even tho they told me not to. This was untrue. The associate most
definitely did say that the waders could tear at the stomach, but the
owner said that I should get them.

Thus, the manufacturer VOIDED my warranty, and if I want the specially
made waders I have to pay $270. The fly shop said they will try to
repair the leaks, but I am still without a WARRANTY plus without the
brand new specially sized waders for $40.

The owner IS a really nice guy, but I got screwed so incredibly hard.

waders rant
 

Anyone think that would be
worth the effort?


Can we say principe??? By all means it'd be worth the effort!!!
Sr.


"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
Hi Bill, I took the waders to Fish First in Chico and they suggested I
contact the Colorado Better Business Bureu. Anyone think that would be
worth the effort?


In article ,
"Bill Kiene" wrote:

Wow,

I glad it ws not me.(just for the record)

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

I do most of my shopping at a local fly shop that will remain
annonymous. The owner is the NICEST guy, who has treated me
*INCREDIBLY*
well (just want to make that clear).

He traded some quality waders for work I did for him (again, I praise
him for this). The waders were medium king sized (I am a big guy). The
associate was concerned that they were tight, and said he was worried
they might bust a seem in the stomach. The owner (this is very
important) said special sized waders would be $100 more and
RECOMMENDED
that I get the medium kings, which is what I did. THE OWNER OF THE
SHOP
RECOMMENDED THAT I GET THE WADERS. These were waders that he had in
the
shop for some time that a customer ordered but never came in to buy.

About 3 months later I started to get leaks in them, and the material
in
the bottom of the feet started wearing out. All the leaks were knee
level or bellow.

I called the manufacturer and they agreed that I could return the
waders
to the store, and that instead of medium kings I needed specially made
waders. They told me to email them all the pertinent info, they would
make the waders and charge me $40.

They called the fly shop owner, who told them I insisted on getting
the
waders even tho they told me not to. This was untrue. The associate
most
definitely did say that the waders could tear at the stomach, but the
owner said that I should get them.

Thus, the manufacturer VOIDED my warranty, and if I want the specially
made waders I have to pay $270. The fly shop said they will try to
repair the leaks, but I am still without a WARRANTY plus without the
brand new specially sized waders for $40.

The owner IS a really nice guy, but I got screwed so incredibly hard.

waders rant
 

"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
Hi Bill, I took the waders to Fish First in Chico and they suggested I
contact the Colorado Better Business Bureu. Anyone think that would be
worth the effort?


It will only be worth the effort if the company you will be filing a
complaint about has a standing membership in the BBB. Otherwise it is
useless. Unless of course that said company would someday wish to become a
member.

Not all companies are members of the BBB and filing against a non member is
just several pages of paperwork that will get filed in a lost cabinet.

waders rant
 

Hi Bill, I tried to email you but the email bounced because it said you
were over quota. I have kept the names of the businesses secret to try
to be fair to them, but I have explained my situation to other flyshop's
as well as the internet (as well as showing the waders to fish first)
and they have all agreed I am getting screwed over. The waders are made
by ADG. The local fly shop is Sierra Stream and Mountain in Chico.
They also go by the name tie fast and sell quality accessories, such as
their knot tiers.

Is their a way to see if Sierra Stream and Mountain is a member of the
california BBB and if ADG is a member of the Colorado BBB? ADG, btw,
makes a really nice fly rod, the titan. I have one of these as well as
one of their reels. Obviously I am less than happy with their customer
service, but I suppose there is a small chance they will do right (a
very small chance). As far as the waders go, Fish first said they have
a couple of issues. First of all the feet are neoprene and they said
most waders have a more durable material. Also, their is a patch on the
knee that has come undone, they said that it is single stitched and a
quality wader would be double stitched.



In article ,
Steve Sullivan wrote:

Hi Bill, I took the waders to Fish First in Chico and they suggested I
contact the Colorado Better Business Bureu. Anyone think that would be
worth the effort?


In article ,
"Bill Kiene" wrote:

Wow,

I glad it ws not me.(just for the record)

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

I do most of my shopping at a local fly shop that will remain
annonymous. The owner is the NICEST guy, who has treated me *INCREDIBLY*
well (just want to make that clear).

He traded some quality waders for work I did for him (again, I praise
him for this). The waders were medium king sized (I am a big guy). The
associate was concerned that they were tight, and said he was worried
they might bust a seem in the stomach. The owner (this is very
important) said special sized waders would be $100 more and RECOMMENDED
that I get the medium kings, which is what I did. THE OWNER OF THE SHOP
RECOMMENDED THAT I GET THE WADERS. These were waders that he had in the
shop for some time that a customer ordered but never came in to buy.

About 3 months later I started to get leaks in them, and the material in
the bottom of the feet started wearing out. All the leaks were knee
level or bellow.

I called the manufacturer and they agreed that I could return the waders
to the store, and that instead of medium kings I needed specially made
waders. They told me to email them all the pertinent info, they would
make the waders and charge me $40.

They called the fly shop owner, who told them I insisted on getting the
waders even tho they told me not to. This was untrue. The associate most
definitely did say that the waders could tear at the stomach, but the
owner said that I should get them.

Thus, the manufacturer VOIDED my warranty, and if I want the specially
made waders I have to pay $270. The fly shop said they will try to
repair the leaks, but I am still without a WARRANTY plus without the
brand new specially sized waders for $40.

The owner IS a really nice guy, but I got screwed so incredibly hard.

waders rant
 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:56:29 GMT, Steve Sullivan wrote:

I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.
[rant snipped]

There's your real problem right the no sense of perspective...

/daytripper (how many lifetimes do you think you get, anyway?)

waders rant
 

Steve,

Who is 'ADG' ?

Try my email again?

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...

Hi Bill, I tried to email you but the email bounced because it said you
were over quota. I have kept the names of the businesses secret to try
to be fair to them, but I have explained my situation to other flyshop's
as well as the internet (as well as showing the waders to fish first)
and they have all agreed I am getting screwed over. The waders are made
by ADG. The local fly shop is Sierra Stream and Mountain in Chico.
They also go by the name tie fast and sell quality accessories, such as
their knot tiers.

Is their a way to see if Sierra Stream and Mountain is a member of the
california BBB and if ADG is a member of the Colorado BBB? ADG, btw,
makes a really nice fly rod, the titan. I have one of these as well as
one of their reels. Obviously I am less than happy with their customer
service, but I suppose there is a small chance they will do right (a
very small chance). As far as the waders go, Fish first said they have
a couple of issues. First of all the feet are neoprene and they said
most waders have a more durable material. Also, their is a patch on the
knee that has come undone, they said that it is single stitched and a
quality wader would be double stitched.



In article ,
Steve Sullivan wrote:

Hi Bill, I took the waders to Fish First in Chico and they suggested I
contact the Colorado Better Business Bureu. Anyone think that would be
worth the effort?


In article ,
"Bill Kiene" wrote:

Wow,

I glad it ws not me.(just for the record)

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

I do most of my shopping at a local fly shop that will remain
annonymous. The owner is the NICEST guy, who has treated me
*INCREDIBLY*
well (just want to make that clear).

He traded some quality waders for work I did for him (again, I
praise
him for this). The waders were medium king sized (I am a big guy).
The
associate was concerned that they were tight, and said he was
worried
they might bust a seem in the stomach. The owner (this is very
important) said special sized waders would be $100 more and
RECOMMENDED
that I get the medium kings, which is what I did. THE OWNER OF THE
SHOP
RECOMMENDED THAT I GET THE WADERS. These were waders that he had in
the
shop for some time that a customer ordered but never came in to buy.

About 3 months later I started to get leaks in them, and the
material in
the bottom of the feet started wearing out. All the leaks were knee
level or bellow.

I called the manufacturer and they agreed that I could return the
waders
to the store, and that instead of medium kings I needed specially
made
waders. They told me to email them all the pertinent info, they
would
make the waders and charge me $40.

They called the fly shop owner, who told them I insisted on getting
the
waders even tho they told me not to. This was untrue. The associate
most
definitely did say that the waders could tear at the stomach, but
the
owner said that I should get them.

Thus, the manufacturer VOIDED my warranty, and if I want the
specially
made waders I have to pay $270. The fly shop said they will try to
repair the leaks, but I am still without a WARRANTY plus without the
brand new specially sized waders for $40.

The owner IS a really nice guy, but I got screwed so incredibly
hard.

waders rant
 

In article ,
"Bill Kiene" wrote:

Steve,

Who is 'ADG' ?



www.adgfish.com. It is David Ahn's company. I personally like the fly
rod I have from them, the adg titan.

waders rant
 

"daytripper" wrote in message
...

/daytripper (how many lifetimes do you think you get, anyway?)

Since I'm already on my 59th, I would guess, 381.

:-)

waders rant
 

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Bill Kiene wrote:
Wow,
I glad it ws not me.(just for the record)
Bill Kiene
Web site: www.kiene.com

For the record, Bill and his employees are about as knowledgable and
friendly a group of tackle peddlers that you will ever meet. Plus it's a
large store with a very extensive inventory.

Mu

waders rant
 

In article
. umich.edu,
Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004, Bill Kiene wrote:
Wow,
I glad it ws not me.(just for the record)
Bill Kiene
Web site: www.kiene.com

For the record, Bill and his employees are about as knowledgable and
friendly a group of tackle peddlers that you will ever meet. Plus it's a
large store with a very extensive inventory.

I guess I should of got my waders from Bill instead of Tie Fast.

waders rant
 

"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...

I guess I should of got my waders from Bill instead of Tie Fast.

Only if they had your size. Don't settle on anything too small.

waders rant
 

"Hooked" wrote in message
...
"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...

I guess I should of got my waders from Bill instead of Tie Fast.

Only if they had your size. Don't settle on anything too small.



Agreed. I got a pair of breathables a few years back that were a bit snug in
the belly because I needed them postehaste, they were half-price, and they
were the only thing in the shop that was close to my size. I was never truly
comfortable wearing them, as I was always concerned about ripping them out
if I ever went down on a knee midstream. Even lacing up my boots was a bit
on the edge. The silver lining was that I got robbed in South Africa, and
with my insurance money I bought (with the assistance of Frank Reid) a very
comfortable pair of breathables that fit a tiny bit large, but with the wide
belt Frank chose for me, I can 'bunch up' the excess fabric and make them
right. Its like the difference between a pair of shoes that are a half-size
too small, and a pair of sandals that are just perfect.

--riverman

waders rant
 

The silver lining was that I got robbed in South Africa, and
with my insurance money I bought (with the assistance of Frank Reid) a very
comfortable pair of breathables that fit a tiny bit large, but with the wide
belt Frank chose for me, I can 'bunch up' the excess fabric and make them
right. Its like the difference between a pair of shoes that are a half-size
too small, and a pair of sandals that are just perfect.

--riverman

Again, they are not kevlar waders. If I'd known you were gonna need
kevlar, I would have taken you down to Ft. Meade and had some custom
ones made up. How goes the shooting?

--
Frank Reid
Reverse Email to reply

waders rant
 

"Frank Reid" wrote in message
...
The silver lining was that I got robbed in South Africa, and
with my insurance money I bought (with the assistance of Frank Reid) a
very
comfortable pair of breathables that fit a tiny bit large, but with the
wide
belt Frank chose for me, I can 'bunch up' the excess fabric and make
them
right. Its like the difference between a pair of shoes that are a
half-size
too small, and a pair of sandals that are just perfect.

--riverman

Again, they are not kevlar waders. If I'd known you were gonna need
kevlar, I would have taken you down to Ft. Meade and had some custom
ones made up. How goes the shooting?

--

LOL. The image of me walking around in Kevlar waders during a firefight is
almost as funny as the time I field-tested my new breatables prior to the
Denmark clave by sitting in an ice-cold bathtub for a half hour. Sheesh,
newbies.

The entire coup thing left as quick as it arrived. As of midmorning Saturday
(when I woke up after finally falling asleep at dawn), the fighting was only
taking place downtown in Gombe (the diplomat district) and at the 'beach'
(the dock with Brazzaville). The government troops arrested about 15
insurgents by lunch, and the streets were completely calm by tea time. Of
course, a lot of the insurgents just blended into the crowd. Yesterday was a
completely normal day, and today its like it never happened. Kabila is
having high-level meetings with his VPs, (one of whom was probably behind
the coup) and the military and Kabila are assuring the population that
keeping the peace is their absolute highest priority. About 500 troops are
on full alert. Folks at work (we got a day off) are chatting about how
cool/exciting/scary/bizarre/typical it all was, and how it might mean that
there will be more bumps in the road in the future, but mostly how
incredibly stupid and suicidal the insurgents were to attack a city with
5000 UN troops, 10000 loyalist troops and the focus of the world on it. My
next-door neighbor, who is the senior officer in charge of all UN flights
in/out of the country assured me that my family and I wouldn't have to wait
for an official evacuation notice to get hauled out any time there was real
danger.

--riverman

waders rant
 

"Bill Kiene" wrote in
om:


Also, I don't see any waders other than Simms that are worth buying in
the US. Patagonia is still in the R&D catch-up mode with Simms
especially for fit. We got tired of closing out thousands of dollars
worth of redesigned waders every year that did not fit people well.

Apples to Apples, Bill. Sure, you get what you pay for, but not everyone
can get the top of the line Simms. How do the Freestones compare to the
rest of the $150 market?

Scott

waders rant
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.4...
"Bill Kiene" wrote in
om:


Also, I don't see any waders other than Simms that are worth buying in
the US. Patagonia is still in the R&D catch-up mode with Simms
especially for fit. We got tired of closing out thousands of dollars
worth of redesigned waders every year that did not fit people well.

Apples to Apples, Bill. Sure, you get what you pay for, but not everyone
can get the top of the line Simms. How do the Freestones compare to the
rest of the $150 market?

I can't speak for all, but my Freestone waders fit *much* better than the others
(Cabelas, Hodgeman) I've tried.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

waders rant
 

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Scott Seidman wrote:

Apples to Apples, Bill. Sure, you get what you pay for, but not everyone
can get the top of the line Simms. How do the Freestones compare to the
rest of the $150 market?

I purchased the Simms lightweights for $180 in 2003. Considering the
quality, I'd say it was actually rather inexpensive compared to my
previous waders ($130 for Orvis Clearwaters in 2000, and $160 for a pair
of Cabela's breathables back in the 1998).

Mu

waders rant
 

Mu Young Lee wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Scott Seidman wrote:

Apples to Apples, Bill. Sure, you get what you pay for, but not everyone
can get the top of the line Simms. How do the Freestones compare to the
rest of the $150 market?


I purchased the Simms lightweights for $180 in 2003. Considering the
quality, I'd say it was actually rather inexpensive compared to my
previous waders ($130 for Orvis Clearwaters in 2000, and $160 for a pair
of Cabela's breathables back in the 1998).

A pair of waders is merely a necessary tool. I've never heard gear
whores bragging about how many pairs of waders they have. :-) I suppose
there's always a first time to look forward to. (I have two pair -- both
Simms -- one pair reconditioned at the factory, which acts as my backup
and loaner pair.)

My philosophy about buying tools is that I don't compromise on quality.
I may not buy the tool with all the fancy bells and whistles, but I
won't ever buy second best if I can help it. It's a false economy.

Nowadays, when it might cost $40 in gas, one way, to get to your fishing
destination, a pair of Simms waders seems like a bargain.

Apropos of waders, about a week ago in Jerry's Country Store in Lower
Stanley I saw a young steelhead fisherman wearing a brand new pair of
Simms waders and, over top of them, a pair of cheap rubber hip boots.
He'd forgotten to bring his wading boots. The guy was pretty cool
because he realized how ridiculous he looked. :-)

waders rant
 

In article et,
says...

Apropos of waders, about a week ago in Jerry's Country Store in Lower
Stanley I saw a young steelhead fisherman wearing a brand new pair of
Simms waders and, over top of them, a pair of cheap rubber hip boots.
He'd forgotten to bring his wading boots. The guy was pretty cool
because he realized how ridiculous he looked. :-)


I've done that before. Fortunately there were no witnesses.

Kevin

waders rant
 

"Kevin Vang" wrote in message
...


I've done that before. Fortunately there were no witnesses.


Fishing last year, a guy started stalking me on the river. Then I waded a
little deeper and laughed as he followed me again and the water went over
the top of his knee high rubber boots.

waders rant
 

"riverman" wrote in message
...


Agreed. I got a pair of breathables a few years back that were a bit snug
in
the belly because I needed them postehaste, they were half-price, and they
were the only thing in the shop that was close to my size. I was never
truly
comfortable wearing them, as I was always concerned about ripping them out
if I ever went down on a knee midstream. Even lacing up my boots was a bit
on the edge. The silver lining was that I got robbed in South Africa, and
with my insurance money I bought (with the assistance of Frank Reid) a
very
comfortable pair of breathables that fit a tiny bit large, but with the
wide
belt Frank chose for me, I can 'bunch up' the excess fabric and make them
right. Its like the difference between a pair of shoes that are a
half-size
too small, and a pair of sandals that are just perfect.


And then there's always the problem of boot foot waders. You buy a pair of
waders to fit your feet, and they aren't long enough in the inseam, or too
tight in the waste. Or vice versa.

But then it also happens with stocking foot waders too. Buy them for the
waste size and the inseam is too short.

Why can't they make waders that fit the majority of those who wear them?
Seems like they got a few special order sizes when they were an upstart
company, and then just stuck to those few sizes.

waders rant
 

In article ,
says...


But then it also happens with stocking foot waders too. Buy them for the
waste size and the inseam is too short.


Hmmmm.... I think I see why some of you complain about your waders
starting to smell bad.

Kevin

waders rant
 

"Hooked" wrote in message
...
"riverman" wrote in message
...


Agreed. I got a pair of breathables a few years back that were a bit
snug
in
the belly because I needed them postehaste, they were half-price, and
they
were the only thing in the shop that was close to my size. I was never
truly
comfortable wearing them, as I was always concerned about ripping them
out
if I ever went down on a knee midstream. Even lacing up my boots was a
bit
on the edge. The silver lining was that I got robbed in South Africa,
and
with my insurance money I bought (with the assistance of Frank Reid) a
very
comfortable pair of breathables that fit a tiny bit large, but with the
wide
belt Frank chose for me, I can 'bunch up' the excess fabric and make
them
right. Its like the difference between a pair of shoes that are a
half-size
too small, and a pair of sandals that are just perfect.


And then there's always the problem of boot foot waders. You buy a pair of
waders to fit your feet, and they aren't long enough in the inseam, or too
tight in the waste. Or vice versa.

But then it also happens with stocking foot waders too. Buy them for the
waste size and the inseam is too short.

Why can't they make waders that fit the majority of those who wear them?
Seems like they got a few special order sizes when they were an upstart
company, and then just stuck to those few sizes.



I just think the Koreans, do not realise how tall we are. I wear size 14
shoes and the Red Ball boot foot waders were the only ones that were long
enough in the inseam when I used boot foots for duck hunting. The Korean
waders were always about 6" short in the crotch. I think my latest
neoprenes are Hodgeman and they are fine.
Bill

waders rant
 

nice guy till he couldn't make a buck off you....
your learning fast....but not fast enough..
allen
"Sr." wrote in message
...
Wow, what a tear jerking tale......Sounds like ya have like 2 options: 1.
go
back and give the fella the $270.00, B. go elsewhere and buy a pair of
waders, or A.-wade without waders... Cabela's has an excellent wader for
under $100.00... A small peace of advice here from an x-fatguy, loose
some
weight!!!
Sr.



"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
I am so unbelievably depressed and angry at the same time. I feel so
incredibly screwed. I have to get this off my chest.

I do most of my shopping at a local fly shop that will remain
annonymous. The owner is the NICEST guy, who has treated me *INCREDIBLY*
well (just want to make that clear).

He traded some quality waders for work I did for him (again, I praise
him for this). The waders were medium king sized (I am a big guy). The
associate was concerned that they were tight, and said he was worried
they might bust a seem in the stomach. The owner (this is very
important) said special sized waders would be $100 more and RECOMMENDED
that I get the medium kings, which is what I did. THE OWNER OF THE SHOP
RECOMMENDED THAT I GET THE WADERS. These were waders that he had in the
shop for some time that a customer ordered but never came in to buy.

About 3 months later I started to get leaks in them, and the material in
the bottom of the feet started wearing out. All the leaks were knee
level or bellow.

I called the manufacturer and they agreed that I could return the waders
to the store, and that instead of medium kings I needed specially made
waders. They told me to email them all the pertinent info, they would
make the waders and charge me $40.

They called the fly shop owner, who told them I insisted on getting the
waders even tho they told me not to. This was untrue. The associate most
definitely did say that the waders could tear at the stomach, but the
owner said that I should get them.

Thus, the manufacturer VOIDED my warranty, and if I want the specially
made waders I have to pay $270. The fly shop said they will try to
repair the leaks, but I am still without a WARRANTY plus without the
brand new specially sized waders for $40.

The owner IS a really nice guy, but I got screwed so incredibly hard.

waders rant
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

I just think the Koreans, do not realise how tall we are. I wear size 14
shoes and the Red Ball boot foot waders were the only ones that were long
enough in the inseam when I used boot foots for duck hunting. The Korean
waders were always about 6" short in the crotch. I think my latest
neoprenes are Hodgeman and they are fine.


I have 2 pair of Hodgeman. One is a bootfoot neoprene pair, that the boots
are loose fitting, everything else is tight, but the length is right. The
other pair are stockingfoot breathables. The feet are a bit big, the waste
and inseam are fine, but they're a bit big around the chest.

Ever thumb trough a catalog and check out the sizes they give? Who really
fits those sizes? Certainly not me, and I bet a million other guys.

I guess I could spend more for a better fitting pair (spelled tailored) but
I for one can't afford that.

waders rant
 

Hooked wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

I just think the Koreans, do not realise how tall we are. I wear size 14
shoes and the Red Ball boot foot waders were the only ones that were long
enough in the inseam when I used boot foots for duck hunting. The Korean
waders were always about 6" short in the crotch. I think my latest
neoprenes are Hodgeman and they are fine.



I have 2 pair of Hodgeman. One is a bootfoot neoprene pair, that the boots
are loose fitting, everything else is tight, but the length is right. The
other pair are stockingfoot breathables. The feet are a bit big, the waste
and inseam are fine, but they're a bit big around the chest.

So you're a skinny, concave-chested guy with little feet. Deal with it. :-)

Ever thumb trough a catalog and check out the sizes they give? Who really
fits those sizes? Certainly not me, and I bet a million other guys.

Off-the-shelf waders and pants fit me just fine.

BTW, it's "waist," not "waste."

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

waders rant
 

"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...

So you're a skinny, concave-chested guy with little feet. Deal with it.
:-)

If I'm skinny, why is everyone telling me I should go on a diet?

Concave chested? No. And I don't have a big chest (like a woman) either.

Little feet? Average, size 9.


Off-the-shelf waders and pants fit me just fine.

Then you are one of the few who fit those waders. Are you Korean?


BTW, it's "waist," not "waste."

Blame it on Microsoft Spell Checker.

waders rant
 

so stop with bull **** with the waders... will someone get a life and talk
about a issue the really means something !!


"Hooked" wrote in message
...
"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...

So you're a skinny, concave-chested guy with little feet. Deal with it.
:-)

If I'm skinny, why is everyone telling me I should go on a diet?

Concave chested? No. And I don't have a big chest (like a woman) either.

Little feet? Average, size 9.


Off-the-shelf waders and pants fit me just fine.

Then you are one of the few who fit those waders. Are you Korean?


BTW, it's "waist," not "waste."

Blame it on Microsoft Spell Checker.

waders rant
 

if you guys want to have a slow motion chat room go to AOL !
"Hooked" wrote in message
...
"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...

So you're a skinny, concave-chested guy with little feet. Deal with it.
:-)

If I'm skinny, why is everyone telling me I should go on a diet?

Concave chested? No. And I don't have a big chest (like a woman) either.

Little feet? Average, size 9.


Off-the-shelf waders and pants fit me just fine.

Then you are one of the few who fit those waders. Are you Korean?


BTW, it's "waist," not "waste."

Blame it on Microsoft Spell Checker.