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-   -   To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question? (http://www.fishingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=8291)

Tim Apple July 2nd, 2004 08:11 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple


Frank Reid July 2nd, 2004 09:32 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?


Well, if you're into business ethics, Orvis got into bed with Wally World
whilst you were getting your ass shot off. How's that for gratitude.
By the way, welcome back to the real world. If you end up TDY to DC, give
me a hollar. Gots some water that needs fishin'. And, by the way, thank
you.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply



Ken Fortenberry July 2nd, 2004 10:53 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Tim Apple wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. ...


I think the "beef" with Orvis is more reverse snobbery than anything
of substance. Orvis presents themselves as upscale and markets their
products the same way. Tweed and cardigans, bird dog asleep in front
of the fireplace while the master of the house ties flies with a pipe
in his mouth and a brandy at the elbow. This image is, of course,
anathema to most of roff. All the fly fishermen here drive rusted out
old Dodge Darts, wear clothes from the Goodwill bin, and fish with old
fly rods purchased for six ninety-five at Sears back in the fifties.

Like you, I have a used Orvis rod, a 7'6" Superfine, that I am very
happy with.

--
Ken Fortenberry


[email protected] July 2nd, 2004 11:51 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:11:42 -0500, Tim Apple
wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple


Orvis gear, generally, is good gear. Here's a way you may wish to look
at it: Take two rod blanks, both made at the same plant. Then send one
to "Bob's House O' Rods" and the other to Orvis. Bob, who is an honest
businessman, finishes his rods with decent, but not fancy, fittings and
simply sells them out of his small shop. He offers no warranty other
than that covering his own work. He is upfront about it all, saying,
basically, that it is what is: a reasonably-priced fishing tool. Now
Orvis takes the same blank and finishes it with the finest of fittings,
offers what is essentially a "no questions asked" return policy, markets
it through its catalogs, websites, dealers, etc. Of course, and quite
properly, the Orvis rod will be considerably more expensive.

Is the Orvis version a "better" rod? If the buyer thinks it is for
them, then it is in a purely subjective manner. One could argue that it
is a "better" rod because of the higher quality of the fittings or the
better warranty, and in that narrow objective context, they'd have a
legitimate point. But things like "better," "nice," "fantastic,"
"crappy," and such are always, in practice, subjective.

This might sound smart-assed, but it isn't meant to: only you can say if
a piece of gear is "good" for you. Can you afford it? If so, then the
only real hurdle is overcome. Do you like the feel, the action, the
cast? If so, that is answered . Do you like the look of it? If so,
then that is, IMO, just frosting on the cake when it comes to tools, but
you may think it an important point.

HTH,
R

Particle Salad July 3rd, 2004 01:31 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
I've never even used one of their rods... but I was in Tahoe City last
weekend looking for some flies. I see an "Orvis" shingle, and I think, cool
a flyshop. I go in... hmm... what's this? Knick-knacks all over the place,
not a rod or piece of fly gear in sight. Oh, there... "flyfishing upstairs"
the sign says. Cool, head on up... hmm... lots of clothing. Clothing all
over the place... and not flyfishing stuff either. Oh, there in the
corner... it's a small whiteboard with handwritten fishing reports, three
Orvis rods (none my side of $350), and a box of flies... maybe 40-50
different varities.

That is my experience with Orvis, and it matches the impression I had of
them before going in. I'm sure it's good quality stuff...

"Tim Apple" wrote in message
...
You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk

against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for

rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple




Charlie Wilson July 3rd, 2004 09:50 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
The need to bash Orvis seems to be endemic among sophomore flyfishermen.
They make some good stuff and some not so good stuff, and they market a
bunch of stuff you don't need. Trying to turn a profit doesn't make them
evil.



riverman July 3rd, 2004 10:18 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 

"Tim Apple" wrote in message
...
You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk

against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for

rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?


I have no complaints about my Orvis waders. They fit better and cost less
than the Sims ones I tried on, and have a couple of features that I really
like.

I think willingness to use Orvis products is a sign of non-elitism, since
they DO get a lot of smack talk. I think becoming 'Orvisboy', with a total
dedication to Orvis products is a sign of misdirected product allegience.

--rivemman



Big Dale July 3rd, 2004 11:52 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
I have been trying to figure out what the deal is with Orvis also. I don't own
any of their rods, but have several friends that do and I have fished with
several. If you like a rod that is not superfast, in a 3 or 2 weight rod, I
doubt you will find many any more fun to fish that the Superfine series. The
company has a reputation for being a good corperate citizen for well over a
century now. The local "factory store" in Dallas came to town about a decade
ago and has always supported the local fly fishing club very well and they try
to keep some of all of the fly tying materials in their catalog in stock. Sure
they sell a lot of dog beds, but I don't know of another shop in Dallas that
even tries to keep a few bamboo rods in stock. I hear a lot of bitching about
their high cost, but most of the fly shops carry a bunch of stuff at MSRP in
fact most companies would not sell their stuff to them if they did not. The new
manager of the store in Dallas has the coolist fly shop dog that I have met in
several years.Use them as you see fit as far as I am concerned.

Big Dale

Jim July 3rd, 2004 03:02 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:11:42 -0500, Tim Apple
wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk

against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for

rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in

all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple


Orvis gear, generally, is good gear. Here's a way you may wish to look
at it: Take two rod blanks, both made at the same plant. Then send one
to "Bob's House O' Rods" and the other to Orvis. Bob, who is an honest
businessman, finishes his rods with decent, but not fancy, fittings and
simply sells them out of his small shop. He offers no warranty other
than that covering his own work. He is upfront about it all, saying,
basically, that it is what is: a reasonably-priced fishing tool. Now
Orvis takes the same blank and finishes it with the finest of fittings,
offers what is essentially a "no questions asked" return policy, markets
it through its catalogs, websites, dealers, etc. Of course, and quite
properly, the Orvis rod will be considerably more expensive.

Is the Orvis version a "better" rod? If the buyer thinks it is for
them, then it is in a purely subjective manner. One could argue that it
is a "better" rod because of the higher quality of the fittings or the
better warranty, and in that narrow objective context, they'd have a
legitimate point. But things like "better," "nice," "fantastic,"
"crappy," and such are always, in practice, subjective.

This might sound smart-assed, but it isn't meant to: only you can say if
a piece of gear is "good" for you. Can you afford it? If so, then the
only real hurdle is overcome. Do you like the feel, the action, the
cast? If so, that is answered . Do you like the look of it? If so,
then that is, IMO, just frosting on the cake when it comes to tools, but
you may think it an important point.

HTH,
R


Unless something has changed dramatically in the last year or so, Orvis
designs its own blanks and manufactures them in Manchester. The only
exception to this would be the new Wally World rods. Whether you like the
action or not is entirely subjective. I have several Orvis rods, and like
most of them. Unfortunately, as I have fished with two of them, I have
discovered that I really don't like those two particular rods, even though
they cast great at the shop. The only real way to fully evaluate a rod is to
take it to the river for a few trips.

Jim Ray



Jim July 3rd, 2004 03:13 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 

"Particle Salad" wrote in message
. ..
I've never even used one of their rods... but I was in Tahoe City last
weekend looking for some flies. I see an "Orvis" shingle, and I think,

cool
a flyshop. I go in... hmm... what's this? Knick-knacks all over the

place,
not a rod or piece of fly gear in sight. Oh, there... "flyfishing

upstairs"
the sign says. Cool, head on up... hmm... lots of clothing. Clothing all
over the place... and not flyfishing stuff either. Oh, there in the
corner... it's a small whiteboard with handwritten fishing reports, three
Orvis rods (none my side of $350), and a box of flies... maybe 40-50
different varities.

That is my experience with Orvis, and it matches the impression I had of
them before going in. I'm sure it's good quality stuff...

"Tim Apple" wrote in message
...
You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk

against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis

rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for

rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in

all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the

stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple




Orvis has company stores, full line dealers, and shops that just carry
selected items. The level of control Orvis corporate has over each type shop
varies dramatically, but they all get to hang out the Orvis shingle. Thus,
an Orvis shingle on what seems to have been a clothing store. BTW, apparel
is the largest part of Orvis business - not flyfishing! Orvis' presence in
Wally World reminds me a lot of the ill fated attempt Black and Decker made
to become a mass market tool supplier. Who can forget walking into K-Mart
and seeing stacks of plastic circular saws on sale for $19.95? They were not
worth the scrap value of the copper, IMHO. It took B&D years to recover, and
finally had to re-introduce DeWalt to penetrate the market it once
dominated. Hope Orvis doesn't discover the same thing.

Jim Ray



Ken Fortenberry July 3rd, 2004 03:52 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Jim wrote:

... The only real way to fully evaluate a rod is to
take it to the river for a few trips.


That's a bunch of hooey. An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.

--
Ken Fortenberry


Jim July 3rd, 2004 04:20 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
gy.com...
Jim wrote:

... The only real way to fully evaluate a rod is to
take it to the river for a few trips.


That's a bunch of hooey. An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.

--
Ken Fortenberry


My local shop doesn't have a stocked pond out back. The rods cast fine. One
of the things I dislike about them is that the tip is so fast, I tend to
snap a lot of tippets on the water. Don't have that problem with other rods
I own. Not sure that this is something possible to evaluate except under
actual fishing conditions. But you are correct about evaluating its casting
characteristics - a few casts and I am pretty sure whether I like the action
or not.

Jim Ray



George Adams July 3rd, 2004 07:36 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
From: Greg Pavlov

The trick, in many cases, is to
bypass the dealer if necessary and go directly to
the company.


Absolutely. I am not "Orvis Boy", (is he one of the superheroes?), but I do own
several Orvis prducts. I had a problem with one set of two year old waders I
got online, but I am within a reasonable, (2.5 hr), driving distance of their
corporate HQ in Manchester. I drove up there, brought the waders into the
company store, and explained the problem to the young man at the flyfishing
counter. He checked the size and brought out a new pair. There was a four year
depreciating warranty on the waders, so I pulled out my wallet, expecting to
pay half of the purchase price. He said, "No charge, waders aren't supposed to
leak." I call that good customer service. I have had no problem with the
replacement waders, or any of the other Orvis products I own.

I suspect, however, if I had gone the mail order replacement route, they would
have charged me, and there likely would have been a long wait, and I wouldn't
have fished the Battenkill that afternoon.{;-)


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller


Tom Littleton July 3rd, 2004 07:44 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Ken writes:

That's a bunch of hooey. An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.


if you had thrown in the caveats that:
1.Said caster could evaluate it fully with
the given line type and weight at hand
2. Said caster could evaluate the CASTING
(as opposed to fishing) qualities of the rod
and
3. casting quality is but a small portion of
the overall nature of a rod.
then, I might have agreed. That said, some rods take time for one to adjust to.
Some rods with limited casting ranges are great fishing tools for certain
intended purposes.
In the final analysis, the qualities of a flyrod are WAY more subtle that
casting qualities, and of such a personal nature I would hesitate to steer
anyone toward any given rod maker or especially specific models.
Tom
p.s. Just play with lots of rods, buy one or two and enjoy. If you don't like
the rod, that is why they created EBay....unload it, and try something else.

Peter Charles July 3rd, 2004 08:13 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:11:42 -0500, Tim Apple
wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple



Orvis is no better nor no worse than the rest. Buy what you like and
ignore the BS.

Peter (multiple CFOs, one BBS, one Green Mountain, multiple
Superfines, Clearwater waders, and a two-handed rod and not a problem
in the bunch)



Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Ken Fortenberry July 3rd, 2004 10:13 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Tom Littleton wrote:
Ken writes:
... An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.


if you had thrown in the caveats that:
1.Said caster could evaluate it fully with
the given line type and weight at hand


I'll grant you this caveat. At the least, I like to cast three
lines, the stated weight, one weight under and one weight over
to fully evaluate a potential addition to the arsenal. (I can
do this in 5 minutes or less BTW.)

2. Said caster could evaluate the CASTING
(as opposed to fishing) qualities of the rod
and
3. casting quality is but a small portion of
the overall nature of a rod. ...


A fly rod does three things. It casts, it controls the line and
it plays the fish/protects the tippet. Of these casting quality
is BY FAR AND AWAY the most important. Casting quality is not
but a small portion of a fly rod's nature, it is the ESSENCE of
a fly rod's nature. Furthermore, the other two attributes can be
easily inferred by first, the rod's length, and second by the
nature of its casting quality.

--
Ken Fortenberry


Bob Weinberger July 3rd, 2004 11:24 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
gy.com...

A fly rod does three things. It casts, it controls the line and
it plays the fish/protects the tippet. Of these casting quality
is BY FAR AND AWAY the most important. Casting quality is not
but a small portion of a fly rod's nature, it is the ESSENCE of
a fly rod's nature. Furthermore, the other two attributes can be
easily inferred by first, the rod's length, and second by the
nature of its casting quality.

--
Ken Fortenberry


While that may be true for some flyfishing styles, it certainly isn't true
for all. One of the best dry fly fishermen I've ever encountered (and who
by the way was mostly responsible for Winston's excellent reputation, having
owned the company for many years until a crippling disease forced his
retirement and sale of the company a few years ago) was a master at getting
close to the fish and rarely casting over 10'. For such fishing a noodly 10'
rod that could only flip out the leader would serve superbly.


--
Bob Weinberger
La, Grande, OR

place a dot between bobs and stuff and remove invalid to send email



Mark H. Bowen July 3rd, 2004 11:34 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Well, we all know that you're **** outta luck then!

Mark
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
gy.com...
Jim wrote:

... The only real way to fully evaluate a rod is to
take it to the river for a few trips.


That's a bunch of hooey. An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.

--
Ken Fortenberry




Ken Fortenberry July 3rd, 2004 11:47 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Chester the Molester wrote:

Well, we all know that you're **** outta luck then!


Go crawl back under your rock, you filthy, white trash
cracker, you have absolutely no business attempting to
associate with the decent sportsmen here.

--
Ken Fortenberry


Stan Gula July 3rd, 2004 11:59 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
"Tim Apple" wrote in message
...
You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk

against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for

rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple


Orvis is looked down on because they're trying to survive as a business by
expanding their markets beyond flyfishing and hunting gear. They are
becoming a marketing machine (like LLBean and others) and are the catalog
choice for east coast yuppie flyfisher wannabes, but that doesn't mean their
gear is substandard. You should look past the shtick and look at the
products. I think their mid-priced rods have been a good value for the
money - my go to stick is a Silver Label 4 wt. - that rod matches my cast
perfectly, and that's how you should pick a rod. Not brand name. I have a
couple of Battenkill reels and I think they are also great bang for the
buck. They stand behind their stuff too. I lost a screw from the drag
adjustment knob on a Battenkill reel and they gave me a whole new frame.
Mine was all banged up from years of use. Needless to say, I'm a repeat
customer. I also buy a lot of my tying material from them - I stop in
whenever I'm in southern VT.

So, when you're shopping, don't buy any rod you can't cast first.
Appearance, brand, hearsay are worthless. If you can't cast it for ****,
you wasted your money whether it's an Orvis, a KPOS, a Sage, or whatever.
My second favorite rod is a $60 KPOS 3 wt. I bought from a friend who has
them built in mass quantities. It doesn't look fancy, but the finish is
very nice and it casts great.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps



Willi July 4th, 2004 12:37 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 


Tom Littleton wrote:

Ken writes:


That's a bunch of hooey. An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.



if you had thrown in the caveats that:
1.Said caster could evaluate it fully with
the given line type and weight at hand
2. Said caster could evaluate the CASTING
(as opposed to fishing) qualities of the rod
and
3. casting quality is but a small portion of
the overall nature of a rod.
then, I might have agreed. That said, some rods take time for one to adjust to.
Some rods with limited casting ranges are great fishing tools for certain
intended purposes.
In the final analysis, the qualities of a flyrod are WAY more subtle that
casting qualities, and of such a personal nature I would hesitate to steer
anyone toward any given rod maker or especially specific models.
Tom
p.s. Just play with lots of rods, buy one or two and enjoy. If you don't like
the rod, that is why they created EBay....unload it, and try something else.


I agree. There are a number of qualities of a rod that you can't
determine from 5 mintues of casting in a parking lot. I'm not a great
caster by any means, but I can use "any" balanced outfit to put the fly
where I want within normal fishing conditions. Personally, I need to
fish a rod about a dozen times before I can really make a decision about
it. For me, the feel of the rod needs to match me and five minutes of
casting doesn't tell me that.

Willi





Willi July 4th, 2004 12:37 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 


Greg Pavlov wrote:



Orvis did the same for me, tho mine were 4 yrs old.
These leaked along most of the lower seams.

Unfortunately, after half a dozen outings, the new
ones also started to leak in at least three places.
These were not the cheapest either: they're Silver
Labels with lace-up bootfoots. And the stocking
foot SLs I bought just about a year ago are also
leaking now, also in more than one place. My guess,
though, is that one or two of the leaks are the
result of errant Clousers.


Why do you keep buying them?

Willi




Tim J. July 4th, 2004 01:19 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
Tom Littleton wrote:
Ken writes:
... An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.


if you had thrown in the caveats that:
1.Said caster could evaluate it fully with
the given line type and weight at hand


I'll grant you this caveat. At the least, I like to cast three
lines, the stated weight, one weight under and one weight over
to fully evaluate a potential addition to the arsenal. (I can
do this in 5 minutes or less BTW.)


I could cast that rod in 4 notes, Dennis.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj



Mark H. Bowen July 4th, 2004 04:17 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
That's why I hang with you!

Your pal,

Mark
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
gy.com...
Chester the Molester wrote:

Well, we all know that you're **** outta luck then!


Go crawl back under your rock, you filthy, white trash
cracker, you have absolutely no business attempting to
associate with the decent sportsmen here.

--
Ken Fortenberry




RUMRUN July 5th, 2004 09:16 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
I believe Orvis is having a promotion for their high end rods and reels through
July 15.. Send them any old rod or real and buy your choice of an Orvis
rod/reel at a 25% discount. They have a youth give away program for the old
stuff.
Nice discount and a nice thing to do .

Tom Bogdan

Scott Seidman July 6th, 2004 01:10 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Ken Fortenberry wrote in
gy.com:

Jim wrote:

... The only real way to fully evaluate a rod is to
take it to the river for a few trips.


That's a bunch of hooey. An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.


But it takes a little longer to figure out if the reel seat is gonna fall
off after 6 hours in a hot trunk, or if the windings are gonna unravel
after a month.

Scott

Steve Sullivan July 9th, 2004 07:16 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
In article ,
Greg Pavlov wrote:

What I *really* need to do for lots of good reasons is lose
about 50 pounds, keep them off, and by a pair of high-end
Simms.


I dont know, from what I hear, if you buy the high end (just under $500
out the door) model, "warrantied for life" means they are warrantied
till they die, so if they die after 6 months you are **** out of luck.
At least with Orvis, if you fish them hard, and they die after 9 months,
Orvis will give you a new pair no questions asked.

Steve Sullivan July 9th, 2004 07:16 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
In article ,
Greg Pavlov wrote:

What I *really* need to do for lots of good reasons is lose
about 50 pounds, keep them off, and by a pair of high-end
Simms.


I dont know, from what I hear, if you buy the high end (just under $500
out the door) model, "warrantied for life" means they are warrantied
till they die, so if they die after 6 months you are **** out of luck.
At least with Orvis, if you fish them hard, and they die after 9 months,
Orvis will give you a new pair no questions asked.

Steve Sullivan July 9th, 2004 07:18 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
In article ,
"Particle Salad" wrote:

I've never even used one of their rods... but I was in Tahoe City last
weekend looking for some flies. I see an "Orvis" shingle, and I think, cool
a flyshop. I go in... hmm... what's this? Knick-knacks all over the place,
not a rod or piece of fly gear in sight. Oh, there... "flyfishing upstairs"
the sign says. Cool, head on up... hmm... lots of clothing. Clothing all
over the place... and not flyfishing stuff either. Oh, there in the
corner... it's a small whiteboard with handwritten fishing reports, three
Orvis rods (none my side of $350), and a box of flies... maybe 40-50
different varities.


Your problem is you didnt go to a "company store". "mothers nature" is
not a company store.

Steve Sullivan July 9th, 2004 07:23 AM

Orvis walmart combos
 
In article , "Jim"
wrote:

Unless something has changed dramatically in the last year or so, Orvis
designs its own blanks and manufactures them in Manchester. The only
exception to this would be the new Wally World rods.


What is the story on the orvis combo's sold at walmart (aka wallyworld)?
They are about $120, and include rod, reel, line, and backing ( I
think). Orvis has a new 5 weight out for about $90, and the low end
orvis reel is about $35, with line and backing to be (I assume) about
$40 for a low end line.

walt winter July 10th, 2004 12:32 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Steve Sullivan wrote:
In article ,
Greg Pavlov wrote:


What I *really* need to do for lots of good reasons is lose
about 50 pounds, keep them off, and by a pair of high-end
Simms.



I dont know, from what I hear, if you buy the high end (just under $500
out the door) model, "warrantied for life" means they are warrantied
till they die, so if they die after 6 months you are **** out of luck.
At least with Orvis, if you fish them hard, and they die after 9 months,
Orvis will give you a new pair no questions asked.



steve, instead of horse****, why doncha take a moment and do some
research.

1) There are 4 wader factories on the planet. One is in Bozeman
Montana, the other three are overseas.... for the astute amongst
us, that speaks volumes.... and no, i'm not speaking of "buy usa"
pride.

2) Simms Warranty, direct from their website:

http://www.simmsfishing.com/za/SIM?PAGE=REPAIRS_MAIN

At Simms, we stand behind everything we make. If your Simms
product fails due to workmanship or material defect during the
life of the product, please return it to us for repair or
replacement. This warranty does not cover damages caused by
improper care, accidents or the natural breakdown of materials
over extended use and time. All defective or damaged products
should be returned to Simms for evaluation and will be repaired
or replaced at the discretion of Simms Fishing Products.

What does this mean for waders?

Workmanship & Materials are Guaranteed for the Life of the
Product. If a Simms wader fails due to workmanship or material
defect during the life of the product, please return it to us for
repair or replacement. All defective or damaged waders should be
returned to Simms for evaluation and will be repaired, replaced
or returned at the sole discretion of Simms Fishing Products.
This warranty does not cover damages caused by improper care,
accidents or the natural breakdown of materials over extended use
and time.

30 Day “Across the Counter” Wader Exchange. If, within 30 days of
the purchase date, you are unhappy with a Simms wader, bring it
back to the dealer you bought it from. Present your sales
receipt, and we will replace it, no questions asked.

The First Repair Is On Us. At Simms, we stand behind everything
we make. But, from time to time, we all take a tumble in the
pursuit of fish. If you accidentally damage your Simms wader
during the first year that you own it, the first repair is on us.
Simply ship us the wader, along with a copy of your receipt, and
we will repair it and ship it back to you.

Further, we will only charge you our actual cost for any
additional repairs that you may need during the life of your
wader. Our Repair Department is not a profit center. Simply bring
the wader to your dealer or contact Simms’ Customer Service for a
Return Authorization. Then, ship the wader to us with a note
describing the problem and someone from our Customer Service Team
will promptly contact you with a repair estimate. Once we receive
your approval we will repair your waders and ship them back to you.
Using the About Repair section to your advantage.

Learn about care & maintenance for your Simms Waders, and other
important details to increase the life-span of your waders. The
online registration form allows you to quickly register your
waders with Simms.




--
Tight Lines,

--Walt
Fly Fishing NC & more...
http://www.ezflyfish.com
http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com


walt winter July 10th, 2004 12:32 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
Steve Sullivan wrote:
In article ,
Greg Pavlov wrote:


What I *really* need to do for lots of good reasons is lose
about 50 pounds, keep them off, and by a pair of high-end
Simms.



I dont know, from what I hear, if you buy the high end (just under $500
out the door) model, "warrantied for life" means they are warrantied
till they die, so if they die after 6 months you are **** out of luck.
At least with Orvis, if you fish them hard, and they die after 9 months,
Orvis will give you a new pair no questions asked.



steve, instead of horse****, why doncha take a moment and do some
research.

1) There are 4 wader factories on the planet. One is in Bozeman
Montana, the other three are overseas.... for the astute amongst
us, that speaks volumes.... and no, i'm not speaking of "buy usa"
pride.

2) Simms Warranty, direct from their website:

http://www.simmsfishing.com/za/SIM?PAGE=REPAIRS_MAIN

At Simms, we stand behind everything we make. If your Simms
product fails due to workmanship or material defect during the
life of the product, please return it to us for repair or
replacement. This warranty does not cover damages caused by
improper care, accidents or the natural breakdown of materials
over extended use and time. All defective or damaged products
should be returned to Simms for evaluation and will be repaired
or replaced at the discretion of Simms Fishing Products.

What does this mean for waders?

Workmanship & Materials are Guaranteed for the Life of the
Product. If a Simms wader fails due to workmanship or material
defect during the life of the product, please return it to us for
repair or replacement. All defective or damaged waders should be
returned to Simms for evaluation and will be repaired, replaced
or returned at the sole discretion of Simms Fishing Products.
This warranty does not cover damages caused by improper care,
accidents or the natural breakdown of materials over extended use
and time.

30 Day “Across the Counter” Wader Exchange. If, within 30 days of
the purchase date, you are unhappy with a Simms wader, bring it
back to the dealer you bought it from. Present your sales
receipt, and we will replace it, no questions asked.

The First Repair Is On Us. At Simms, we stand behind everything
we make. But, from time to time, we all take a tumble in the
pursuit of fish. If you accidentally damage your Simms wader
during the first year that you own it, the first repair is on us.
Simply ship us the wader, along with a copy of your receipt, and
we will repair it and ship it back to you.

Further, we will only charge you our actual cost for any
additional repairs that you may need during the life of your
wader. Our Repair Department is not a profit center. Simply bring
the wader to your dealer or contact Simms’ Customer Service for a
Return Authorization. Then, ship the wader to us with a note
describing the problem and someone from our Customer Service Team
will promptly contact you with a repair estimate. Once we receive
your approval we will repair your waders and ship them back to you.
Using the About Repair section to your advantage.

Learn about care & maintenance for your Simms Waders, and other
important details to increase the life-span of your waders. The
online registration form allows you to quickly register your
waders with Simms.




--
Tight Lines,

--Walt
Fly Fishing NC & more...
http://www.ezflyfish.com
http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com


S S Law NH July 11th, 2004 11:47 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
I mut have been kiving on Mars lately. Can someone fill me in on this
gonnection between Walmart and Orvis? Doesn't sound like a very smart ove for
Orvis if I get the drift.

Jay Sweeney in NH

Mark H. Bowen July 11th, 2004 12:24 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 

"S S Law NH" wrote in message
...
I mut have been kiving on Mars lately. Can someone fill me in on this
gonnection between Walmart and Orvis? Doesn't sound like a very smart ove for
Orvis if I get the drift.

Jay Sweeney in NH


No!


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 7/9/2004


Mark H. Bowen July 11th, 2004 12:24 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 

"S S Law NH" wrote in message
...
I mut have been kiving on Mars lately. Can someone fill me in on this
gonnection between Walmart and Orvis? Doesn't sound like a very smart ove for
Orvis if I get the drift.

Jay Sweeney in NH


No!


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 7/9/2004


daytripper July 11th, 2004 05:32 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
On 11 Jul 2004 10:47:21 GMT, (S S Law NH) wrote:
I mut have been kiving on Mars lately.


You've been...Hey! We got laws against that stuff here on Earth, buddy!

Can someone fill me in on this gonnection between Walmart and Orvis?
Doesn't sound like a very smart ove for Orvis if I get the drift.


Let's be honest: there's really just a very small chance of that, isn't there?

daytripper July 11th, 2004 05:32 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
On 11 Jul 2004 10:47:21 GMT, (S S Law NH) wrote:
I mut have been kiving on Mars lately.


You've been...Hey! We got laws against that stuff here on Earth, buddy!

Can someone fill me in on this gonnection between Walmart and Orvis?
Doesn't sound like a very smart ove for Orvis if I get the drift.


Let's be honest: there's really just a very small chance of that, isn't there?

[email protected] July 12th, 2004 07:59 AM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
On 11 Jul 2004 10:47:21 GMT, (S S Law NH) wrote:

I mut have been kiving on Mars lately. Can someone fill me in on this
gonnection between Walmart and Orvis? Doesn't sound like a very smart ove for
Orvis if I get the drift.

Jay Sweeney in NH



Seems as if Orvis and WalMart made a deal where WalMart will sell
products with the Orvis name on them. No, it doesn't sound smart of
Orvis, unless they're going to have a different name on the products.
Even then, someone who picks up a cheap Orvis googoo piece of gear at
WalMart and isn't happy with it is unlikely, if he ever goes into a
shop with the regular line of good Orvis, to want to buy anything by
that name. Thanks, but I'll take my KPOSes from Cabela's, not
WalMart.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

George Adams July 12th, 2004 01:35 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
From: lid

Seems as if Orvis and WalMart made a deal where WalMart will sell
products with the Orvis name on them.


It's only one product.....an entry level flyrod, reel, and line, and AFAIK, the
Orvis name will be present, but not prominent.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller


Steve Sullivan July 12th, 2004 08:57 PM

To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?
 
In article ,
lid wrote:

On 11 Jul 2004 10:47:21 GMT,
(S S Law NH) wrote:

I mut have been kiving on Mars lately. Can someone fill me in on this
gonnection between Walmart and Orvis? Doesn't sound like a very smart ove for
Orvis if I get the drift.

Jay Sweeney in NH



Seems as if Orvis and WalMart made a deal where WalMart will sell
products with the Orvis name on them. No, it doesn't sound smart of
Orvis, unless they're going to have a different name on the products.
Even then, someone who picks up a cheap Orvis googoo piece of gear at
WalMart and isn't happy with it is unlikely, if he ever goes into a
shop with the regular line of good Orvis, to want to buy anything by
that name. Thanks, but I'll take my KPOSes from Cabela's, not
WalMart.


I would suggest that most people that buy high end orvis products DO NOT
visit walmart. The combo kit is about $110 at walmart, I would assume
it is the rod that Orvis sales for $89 on their web site, the $39 reel,
and their cheapest line and backing


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