Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"hermit" wrote in message
...

Just wanted to say *thanks* for the many responses to my post on
waders for cold conditions. Looks like the breathables with
appropriate layering is the key to keeping warm. Now my next decision
is breathable nylon or Gortex.

Again, thanks to all for their responses and information/advice. It
has helped a lot.



GoreTex is just WL Gore and Associate's patented name for their own version
of micropore breathable material. By now, with all the competitors working
to develop their own micropore fabrics, I would not show any product
dedication to Gore over a cheaper product. Go for ANY breathable product,
regardless of whether it says 'GoreTex' or not. You'll save money and still
get to fart in your waders.

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"hermit" wrote in message
...

Just wanted to say *thanks* for the many responses to my post on
waders for cold conditions. Looks like the breathables with
appropriate layering is the key to keeping warm. Now my next decision
is breathable nylon or Gortex.

Again, thanks to all for their responses and information/advice. It
has helped a lot.



GoreTex is just WL Gore and Associate's patented name for their own version
of micropore breathable material. By now, with all the competitors working
to develop their own micropore fabrics, I would not show any product
dedication to Gore over a cheaper product. Go for ANY breathable product,
regardless of whether it says 'GoreTex' or not. You'll save money and still
get to fart in your waders.

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

Just wanted to say *thanks* for the many responses to my post on
waders for cold conditions. Looks like the breathables with
appropriate layering is the key to keeping warm. Now my next decision
is breathable nylon or Gortex.

Again, thanks to all for their responses and information/advice. It
has helped a lot.

Regards,

Dick Williams

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

riverman wrote:

GoreTex is just WL Gore and Associate's patented name for their own version
of micropore breathable material. By now, with all the competitors working
to develop their own micropore fabrics, I would not show any product
dedication to Gore over a cheaper product. Go for ANY breathable product,
regardless of whether it says 'GoreTex' or not. You'll save money and still
get to fart in your waders.

It's arguable whether the actual membrane bonded to the fabric is
better, but Gore does require that all garments made with their
product meet certain standards. I've found Gore-tex items to be of
consistently higher quality than some of the other breathables.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

riverman wrote:

GoreTex is just WL Gore and Associate's patented name for their own version
of micropore breathable material. By now, with all the competitors working
to develop their own micropore fabrics, I would not show any product
dedication to Gore over a cheaper product. Go for ANY breathable product,
regardless of whether it says 'GoreTex' or not. You'll save money and still
get to fart in your waders.

It's arguable whether the actual membrane bonded to the fabric is
better, but Gore does require that all garments made with their
product meet certain standards. I've found Gore-tex items to be of
consistently higher quality than some of the other breathables.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
gy.com...
riverman wrote:

GoreTex is just WL Gore and Associate's patented name for their own
version
of micropore breathable material. By now, with all the competitors
working
to develop their own micropore fabrics, I would not show any product
dedication to Gore over a cheaper product. Go for ANY breathable
product,
regardless of whether it says 'GoreTex' or not. You'll save money and
still
get to fart in your waders.

It's arguable whether the actual membrane bonded to the fabric is
better, but Gore does require that all garments made with their
product meet certain standards. I've found Gore-tex items to be of
consistently higher quality than some of the other breathables.


In both aspects: breathability and construction? I have found that the
construction varies, but there are some real bargains to be found
(especially when compared to cost: i.e. a product thats half the price may
work about 90-95% as well), and that I cannot discern the difference in
breathability.

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
gy.com...
As for construction, most definitely Gore-Tex is better. Gore requires
all manufacturers who use their product to have factory seam-taping
which requires special, expensive equipment. Not all manufacturers do
this, but if you buy a garment with the Gore-Tex tag you know for sure
that the seams have been taped at the factory.


Yes, I also remember back when I was buying some shoes with goretex linings,
that Gore has some criteria about slicing and stitching through their
material. Many folks were making GoreTex lined shoes by stitching pieces of
GoreTex fabric to the inside of the leather outers. Gore started making
sock-shaped booties which manufacturers were required to use, that were
nested between two layers of shoe material and only stitched at the ankle,
to minimize leak spots.

No doubt that the product is excellent, but I found that you could find
other brands that were constructed just as well. But you had to do your
homework.

But, back to the GoreTex waders question. I've always wondered if there was
any value to being breathable when you are standing hip-deep in water? It
seems that the vapors would not move through a semipermeable membrane from a
region of lesser humidity to a region of higher. Do breathables work
underwater, or only when you are on shore? Or does the vapor move up to the
top of the waders, and escape through there? And if that is the case, what't
the impact of wearing a wading belt?

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
gy.com...
As for construction, most definitely Gore-Tex is better. Gore requires
all manufacturers who use their product to have factory seam-taping
which requires special, expensive equipment. Not all manufacturers do
this, but if you buy a garment with the Gore-Tex tag you know for sure
that the seams have been taped at the factory.


Yes, I also remember back when I was buying some shoes with goretex linings,
that Gore has some criteria about slicing and stitching through their
material. Many folks were making GoreTex lined shoes by stitching pieces of
GoreTex fabric to the inside of the leather outers. Gore started making
sock-shaped booties which manufacturers were required to use, that were
nested between two layers of shoe material and only stitched at the ankle,
to minimize leak spots.

No doubt that the product is excellent, but I found that you could find
other brands that were constructed just as well. But you had to do your
homework.

But, back to the GoreTex waders question. I've always wondered if there was
any value to being breathable when you are standing hip-deep in water? It
seems that the vapors would not move through a semipermeable membrane from a
region of lesser humidity to a region of higher. Do breathables work
underwater, or only when you are on shore? Or does the vapor move up to the
top of the waders, and escape through there? And if that is the case, what't
the impact of wearing a wading belt?

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

riverman wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
It's arguable whether the actual membrane bonded to the fabric is
better, but Gore does require that all garments made with their
product meet certain standards. I've found Gore-tex items to be of
consistently higher quality than some of the other breathables.

In both aspects: breathability and construction? I have found that the
construction varies, but there are some real bargains to be found
(especially when compared to cost: i.e. a product thats half the price may
work about 90-95% as well), and that I cannot discern the difference in
breathability.

I'm a sweating machine, I don't find ANY of the so-called breathables to
be all that great. Better than a rubber rain suit sure, but I'm a sweaty
mess after 10 minutes of paddling, hiking or casting in any rain jacket.

As for construction, most definitely Gore-Tex is better. Gore requires
all manufacturers who use their product to have factory seam-taping
which requires special, expensive equipment. Not all manufacturers do
this, but if you buy a garment with the Gore-Tex tag you know for sure
that the seams have been taped at the factory.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

riverman wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
It's arguable whether the actual membrane bonded to the fabric is
better, but Gore does require that all garments made with their
product meet certain standards. I've found Gore-tex items to be of
consistently higher quality than some of the other breathables.

In both aspects: breathability and construction? I have found that the
construction varies, but there are some real bargains to be found
(especially when compared to cost: i.e. a product thats half the price may
work about 90-95% as well), and that I cannot discern the difference in
breathability.

I'm a sweating machine, I don't find ANY of the so-called breathables to
be all that great. Better than a rubber rain suit sure, but I'm a sweaty
mess after 10 minutes of paddling, hiking or casting in any rain jacket.

As for construction, most definitely Gore-Tex is better. Gore requires
all manufacturers who use their product to have factory seam-taping
which requires special, expensive equipment. Not all manufacturers do
this, but if you buy a garment with the Gore-Tex tag you know for sure
that the seams have been taped at the factory.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, riverman wrote:

But, back to the GoreTex waders question. I've always wondered if there was
any value to being breathable when you are standing hip-deep in water? It
seems that the vapors would not move through a semipermeable membrane from a
region of lesser humidity to a region of higher.

Don't you know that the Gore brand of breathables incorporate a
nanotechnology which allows it to function as a reverse-osmosis (aka
active transport) device ;)
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, riverman wrote:

But, back to the GoreTex waders question. I've always wondered if there was
any value to being breathable when you are standing hip-deep in water? It
seems that the vapors would not move through a semipermeable membrane from a
region of lesser humidity to a region of higher.

Don't you know that the Gore brand of breathables incorporate a
nanotechnology which allows it to function as a reverse-osmosis (aka
active transport) device ;)
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"Mu Young Lee" wrote in message
. itd.umich.edu...
On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, riverman wrote:

But, back to the GoreTex waders question. I've always wondered if there
was
any value to being breathable when you are standing hip-deep in water?
It
seems that the vapors would not move through a semipermeable membrane
from a
region of lesser humidity to a region of higher.

Don't you know that the Gore brand of breathables incorporate a
nanotechnology which allows it to function as a reverse-osmosis (aka
active transport) device ;)

Well, since the key is osmotic pressure, somehow we have to make the partial
pressure of the water vapor inside the waders higher than the PP of the
water vapor in the river, which is approaching 100%. Hmmm, other than
pressuring your waders with distilled water, I don't see how any micropore
layer functions underwater! Gore claims it on their website, but provides no
explanation. I've seen those demonstrations at REI where there is a sealed
beaker underwater with a heating element inside it, and the air bubbles are
escaping into the water. But they are ignoring the vapor pressure of the
boiling water...

Nope, still doesn't make any sense to me. GoreTex functions best as a
bilayer barrier when the air temps (hence the carrying capacity/humidity)
difference is greatest, and the outside air is considerably more dry than
the inside air. Skiing comes to mind, and I know goretex jackets are
excellent in the winter, but I have no idea if they actually breathe
underwater.

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"Mu Young Lee" wrote in message
. itd.umich.edu...
On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, riverman wrote:

But, back to the GoreTex waders question. I've always wondered if there
was
any value to being breathable when you are standing hip-deep in water?
It
seems that the vapors would not move through a semipermeable membrane
from a
region of lesser humidity to a region of higher.

Don't you know that the Gore brand of breathables incorporate a
nanotechnology which allows it to function as a reverse-osmosis (aka
active transport) device ;)

Well, since the key is osmotic pressure, somehow we have to make the partial
pressure of the water vapor inside the waders higher than the PP of the
water vapor in the river, which is approaching 100%. Hmmm, other than
pressuring your waders with distilled water, I don't see how any micropore
layer functions underwater! Gore claims it on their website, but provides no
explanation. I've seen those demonstrations at REI where there is a sealed
beaker underwater with a heating element inside it, and the air bubbles are
escaping into the water. But they are ignoring the vapor pressure of the
boiling water...

Nope, still doesn't make any sense to me. GoreTex functions best as a
bilayer barrier when the air temps (hence the carrying capacity/humidity)
difference is greatest, and the outside air is considerably more dry than
the inside air. Skiing comes to mind, and I know goretex jackets are
excellent in the winter, but I have no idea if they actually breathe
underwater.

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"Mu Young Lee" wrote in message
. itd.umich.edu...
On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, riverman wrote:

But, back to the GoreTex waders question. I've always wondered if there
was
any value to being breathable when you are standing hip-deep in water?
It
seems that the vapors would not move through a semipermeable membrane
from a
region of lesser humidity to a region of higher.

Don't you know that the Gore brand of breathables incorporate a
nanotechnology which allows it to function as a reverse-osmosis (aka
active transport) device ;)

Well, since the key is osmotic pressure, somehow we have to make the partial
pressure of the water vapor inside the waders higher than the PP of the
water vapor in the river, which is approaching 100%. Hmmm, other than
pressuring your waders with distilled water, I don't see how any micropore
layer functions underwater! Gore claims it on their website, but provides no
explanation. I've seen those demonstrations at REI where there is a sealed
beaker underwater with a heating element inside it, and the air bubbles are
escaping into the water. But they are ignoring the vapor pressure of the
boiling water...

Nope, still doesn't make any sense to me. GoreTex functions best as a
bilayer barrier when the air temps (hence the carrying capacity/humidity)
difference is greatest, and the outside air is considerably more dry than
the inside air. Skiing comes to mind, and I know goretex jackets are
excellent in the winter, but I have no idea if they actually breathe
underwater.

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004, riverman wrote:

Well, since the key is osmotic pressure,

Myron, I was agreeing with you. Hence the winking smiley ;)
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"riverman" wrote in
:


Well, since the key is osmotic pressure, somehow we have to make the
partial pressure of the water vapor inside the waders higher than the
PP of the water vapor in the river, which is approaching 100%.

The key is not osmotic pressure, which has to do with the concentration of
solutes in the water. It's vapor pressure-- and you're right-- breathables
can't breathe underwater.

Scott

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"riverman" wrote in
:


Well, since the key is osmotic pressure, somehow we have to make the
partial pressure of the water vapor inside the waders higher than the
PP of the water vapor in the river, which is approaching 100%.

The key is not osmotic pressure, which has to do with the concentration of
solutes in the water. It's vapor pressure-- and you're right--
breathables
can't breathe underwater.


I was referring to FRANK's waders.

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"riverman" wrote in
:


Well, since the key is osmotic pressure, somehow we have to make the
partial pressure of the water vapor inside the waders higher than the
PP of the water vapor in the river, which is approaching 100%.

The key is not osmotic pressure, which has to do with the concentration of
solutes in the water. It's vapor pressure-- and you're right--
breathables
can't breathe underwater.


I was referring to FRANK's waders.

--riverman

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

riverman wrote:
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...

"riverman" wrote in
:


Well, since the key is osmotic pressure, somehow we have to make the
partial pressure of the water vapor inside the waders higher than the
PP of the water vapor in the river, which is approaching 100%.

The key is not osmotic pressure, which has to do with the concentration of
solutes in the water. It's vapor pressure-- and you're right--

breathables

can't breathe underwater.



I was referring to FRANK's waders.

--riverman

Frank wears waders.....why?

brians, sorry frank ;-)

Waders - Thanks everybody
 

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:14:44 -0700, brians wrote:


I was referring to FRANK's waders.

--riverman

Frank wears waders.....why?

brians, sorry frank ;-)


If I'd had cola in my mouth at that moment, I'd be cleaning off my
monitor and keyboard now. Well done.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli