Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Two years ago, I tried to duplicate the female Hydropsyche caddis egg
layer as she dives down, releases eggs, drifts along, then swims back
up. I tried creating a pattern and fishing it in this down, drift,
and up but I didn't get a sniff. Into the "failure" bin it went.

Well, I'm out today on Whitemans Creek and there's nada happening.
I'm doing the minimalist thing so I have very little in the way of
different flies to try. But I do have the faliure. So I gave it a
"what the hell" and instead of deading drifting, I swing it.
Actually, I'm casting across stream, dead drifting, then swinging.
True to form, the dead drift still scores nada.

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing. The fly is tied on a
heavy wire hook and that proved to be a problem for getting good
hooksets on Whitemans little rainbows so the next batch will be a lead
wrapped light wire but I must've had in excess of 50 hits, about 20
hookups and a dozen or so landed.

Can't wait to do a Rhyachophillia for the Rapid. :)))


http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/caddis-diver.jpg

In this picture, the wing edges are straight across but I V'ed them
when I fished it.

Hook: Kamasan B175 or Mustad 3906
Thread: 8/0 Uni-thread tan
Rib: Fine Gold Wire
Body: Light tan rabbit
Hackle: Gray Hungarian Partridge
Wing: Light Gray Turkey Quill





Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

forgot some things . . .

I'm calling it a searching pattern as I simply swing it through
riffles, looking for fish -- there's not much targeting going on. If
I had wished, after getting hits and no hookups, I could've switched
over to another type fly and hope for better hookup results.

The fly did squat in slow current -- it needed faster water. It even
picked up fish in very fast chutes -- the only decent fish and only
brown was hooked and LDRed in a very fast chute.

The 50 hits is a very conservative estimate -- some fish were whacking
it three and four times. At first I though "chubs" but all but one of
the fish that I hooked up, landed or saw, were rainbows. These are
baby steelies, first, second, and third year fish where the oldest run
8" to 10" -- a lot of fun on a 2/3 wt.

I've had days on Whitemans where I've had a lot of hits but never on
the same fly like this. I'll be trying it on the Grand for browns as
well -- the upstream end of Frustration Flats should give it a
workout.

I think the approach should work for any caddis species where the
females dive to lay eggs then swim back up.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

forgot some things . . .

I'm calling it a searching pattern as I simply swing it through
riffles, looking for fish -- there's not much targeting going on. If
I had wished, after getting hits and no hookups, I could've switched
over to another type fly and hope for better hookup results.

The fly did squat in slow current -- it needed faster water. It even
picked up fish in very fast chutes -- the only decent fish and only
brown was hooked and LDRed in a very fast chute.

The 50 hits is a very conservative estimate -- some fish were whacking
it three and four times. At first I though "chubs" but all but one of
the fish that I hooked up, landed or saw, were rainbows. These are
baby steelies, first, second, and third year fish where the oldest run
8" to 10" -- a lot of fun on a 2/3 wt.

I've had days on Whitemans where I've had a lot of hits but never on
the same fly like this. I'll be trying it on the Grand for browns as
well -- the upstream end of Frustration Flats should give it a
workout.

I think the approach should work for any caddis species where the
females dive to lay eggs then swim back up.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.

I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?

Mu

__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.

I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?

Mu

__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

The best caddis searching pattern, if I had to pick just one, is a PT nymph.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

The best caddis searching pattern, if I had to pick just one, is a PT nymph.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 00:36:08 -0600, rw
wrote:

The best caddis searching pattern, if I had to pick just one, is a PT nymph.


Funny, I don't think of nymphing as being much of a searching method.
Nymphing is usually confined to seams, runs, and the deeper slots,
though of course, it can be used almost anywhere. It's usually
applied to features where the fish are concentrated. Swinging wets
and streamers explores the margins, the shallows plus it covers way
more water. Fish are also more likely to move to the swung fly.

Yesterday, I could swing the fly a dozen times through the head of a
riffle and get nothing, then a few feet further and I'd be swining
through a fish holding area and hit after hit. There probably was a
slight depression in that area and the fish were holding in it, yet it
wasn't apparent just by looking at the riffle and I'm sure most
nymphers would have walked right by it as it was totally unremarkable.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 00:36:08 -0600, rw
wrote:

The best caddis searching pattern, if I had to pick just one, is a PT nymph.


Funny, I don't think of nymphing as being much of a searching method.
Nymphing is usually confined to seams, runs, and the deeper slots,
though of course, it can be used almost anywhere. It's usually
applied to features where the fish are concentrated. Swinging wets
and streamers explores the margins, the shallows plus it covers way
more water. Fish are also more likely to move to the swung fly.

Yesterday, I could swing the fly a dozen times through the head of a
riffle and get nothing, then a few feet further and I'd be swining
through a fish holding area and hit after hit. There probably was a
slight depression in that area and the fish were holding in it, yet it
wasn't apparent just by looking at the riffle and I'm sure most
nymphers would have walked right by it as it was totally unremarkable.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 02:13:43 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.

I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?

Mu

I think you have to get to know the caddis in your river. If you have
diving egg-layers and emergers that move laterally as well as up, then
your odds are better.

I like caddis because they tend to come off in these long, sporadic
hatches rather than in the one, 20 minute blizzard common to mayflies.
There's always some caddis action going on, even if it's only a few
egg layers. Yesterday, there's hardly a caddis to be seen yet the
continual yet sporadic, egg-laying action keeps the trout interested.
I've never had a day quite like it before.

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 02:13:43 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.

I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?

Mu

I think you have to get to know the caddis in your river. If you have
diving egg-layers and emergers that move laterally as well as up, then
your odds are better.

I like caddis because they tend to come off in these long, sporadic
hatches rather than in the one, 20 minute blizzard common to mayflies.
There's always some caddis action going on, even if it's only a few
egg layers. Yesterday, there's hardly a caddis to be seen yet the
continual yet sporadic, egg-laying action keeps the trout interested.
I've never had a day quite like it before.

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 02:13:43 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.

I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?

Mu

_________________________________________________ ______________________

In my neck of the woods you can get by on four, Hydropsyche,
Cheumatopsyche, Rhyacophillia, and Glossosoma (spotted sedge #14,
little sister sedge #18, green rock worm #14, and tiny black caddis
#20, respectively). All of these caddis exhibit swimming egg-layers.
The first two are primarily tailwater species that do well in warmer
condtions while the last two are cold water species. I can do all of
my caddis work on the Grand with just the first two, though a
Glossosoma is handy early in the season. You should tie the first two
with both light and dark wings as they tend to get progressively
lighter as the season matures.

A Kings River Caddis is a great pattern for the spotted sedge while
the Henryville Special is a great, high floating, pocket water fly for
GRWs. I also tie the KRC pattern in GRW, LSS, and TBC colours/sizes
as well. The KRC style is a perfect, downwing generic style for
almost any caddis so I replicate it in the colours and sizes I need
for any of these bugs.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 02:13:43 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.

I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?

Mu

_________________________________________________ ______________________

In my neck of the woods you can get by on four, Hydropsyche,
Cheumatopsyche, Rhyacophillia, and Glossosoma (spotted sedge #14,
little sister sedge #18, green rock worm #14, and tiny black caddis
#20, respectively). All of these caddis exhibit swimming egg-layers.
The first two are primarily tailwater species that do well in warmer
condtions while the last two are cold water species. I can do all of
my caddis work on the Grand with just the first two, though a
Glossosoma is handy early in the season. You should tie the first two
with both light and dark wings as they tend to get progressively
lighter as the season matures.

A Kings River Caddis is a great pattern for the spotted sedge while
the Henryville Special is a great, high floating, pocket water fly for
GRWs. I also tie the KRC pattern in GRW, LSS, and TBC colours/sizes
as well. The KRC style is a perfect, downwing generic style for
almost any caddis so I replicate it in the colours and sizes I need
for any of these bugs.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Clarification:

Cinnamon Caddis, Spotted Sedge, Hydropsyche bifida, and the
Ceratopsyche are all the same bug as far as we're concerned. H.
bifida was renamed Ceratopsyche. Some spotted sedges don't have
spots, hence the cinnamon caddis name.

My references for all of this a

"Caddisflies" by Gary Lafontaine
"Caddis Super hatches" by Carl Richards and Bob Braendle
"The Caddisfly Handbook: An Orvis Streamside Guide" by Dick Pobst and
Carl Richards
"Hatch Guide for New England Steams" by Thomas Ames, jr.
"Trout Stream Insects: An Orvis Streamside Guide" by Dick Pobst

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Clarification:

Cinnamon Caddis, Spotted Sedge, Hydropsyche bifida, and the
Ceratopsyche are all the same bug as far as we're concerned. H.
bifida was renamed Ceratopsyche. Some spotted sedges don't have
spots, hence the cinnamon caddis name.

My references for all of this a

"Caddisflies" by Gary Lafontaine
"Caddis Super hatches" by Carl Richards and Bob Braendle
"The Caddisfly Handbook: An Orvis Streamside Guide" by Dick Pobst and
Carl Richards
"Hatch Guide for New England Steams" by Thomas Ames, jr.
"Trout Stream Insects: An Orvis Streamside Guide" by Dick Pobst

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Peter Charles wrote:

Two years ago, I tried to duplicate the female Hydropsyche caddis egg
layer as she dives down, releases eggs, drifts along, then swims back
up. I tried creating a pattern and fishing it in this down, drift,
and up but I didn't get a sniff. Into the "failure" bin it went.

Well, I'm out today on Whitemans Creek and there's nada happening.
I'm doing the minimalist thing so I have very little in the way of
different flies to try. But I do have the faliure. So I gave it a
"what the hell" and instead of deading drifting, I swing it.
Actually, I'm casting across stream, dead drifting, then swinging.
True to form, the dead drift still scores nada.

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing. The fly is tied on a
heavy wire hook and that proved to be a problem for getting good
hooksets on Whitemans little rainbows so the next batch will be a lead
wrapped light wire but I must've had in excess of 50 hits, about 20
hookups and a dozen or so landed.



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Peter Charles wrote:

Two years ago, I tried to duplicate the female Hydropsyche caddis egg
layer as she dives down, releases eggs, drifts along, then swims back
up. I tried creating a pattern and fishing it in this down, drift,
and up but I didn't get a sniff. Into the "failure" bin it went.

Well, I'm out today on Whitemans Creek and there's nada happening.
I'm doing the minimalist thing so I have very little in the way of
different flies to try. But I do have the faliure. So I gave it a
"what the hell" and instead of deading drifting, I swing it.
Actually, I'm casting across stream, dead drifting, then swinging.
True to form, the dead drift still scores nada.

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing. The fly is tied on a
heavy wire hook and that proved to be a problem for getting good
hooksets on Whitemans little rainbows so the next batch will be a lead
wrapped light wire but I must've had in excess of 50 hits, about 20
hookups and a dozen or so landed.



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Peter Charles wrote:

Two years ago, I tried to duplicate the female Hydropsyche caddis egg
layer as she dives down, releases eggs, drifts along, then swims back
up. I tried creating a pattern and fishing it in this down, drift,
and up but I didn't get a sniff. Into the "failure" bin it went.

Well, I'm out today on Whitemans Creek and there's nada happening.
I'm doing the minimalist thing so I have very little in the way of
different flies to try. But I do have the faliure. So I gave it a
"what the hell" and instead of deading drifting, I swing it.
Actually, I'm casting across stream, dead drifting, then swinging.
True to form, the dead drift still scores nada.

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing. The fly is tied on a
heavy wire hook and that proved to be a problem for getting good
hooksets on Whitemans little rainbows so the next batch will be a lead
wrapped light wire but I must've had in excess of 50 hits, about 20
hookups and a dozen or so landed.



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.


I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?


That's THE question. The technique is an easy and fun one but figuring
out when to use it is what's tough. It's a technique that works better
in some places than in others and I've been unable to find the reason
for it. It's is an especially good technique on my home river during the
Summer. Below are some things I have picked up about fishing a fly with
action, whether it be skittering or swinging or lifting or......

Times to try it:

When there are active flies about - caddis, stoneflies, craneflies, etc.
about

When you see splashy rises

During the dog days of Summer when you don't want to dredge the deep
holes for fish, fishing feeding riffles and giving your fly some action
will sometimes bring fish out of their doldrums.

When you see flashes of fish up in the water column.

When you haven't had any success with more traditional methods.


Places to try it:

Like Peter said, shallow riffles are probably the number one place.

The upstream lip of pools.

Sometime a slow dead driftish swing through a pool will work.


Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.


I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?


That's THE question. The technique is an easy and fun one but figuring
out when to use it is what's tough. It's a technique that works better
in some places than in others and I've been unable to find the reason
for it. It's is an especially good technique on my home river during the
Summer. Below are some things I have picked up about fishing a fly with
action, whether it be skittering or swinging or lifting or......

Times to try it:

When there are active flies about - caddis, stoneflies, craneflies, etc.
about

When you see splashy rises

During the dog days of Summer when you don't want to dredge the deep
holes for fish, fishing feeding riffles and giving your fly some action
will sometimes bring fish out of their doldrums.

When you see flashes of fish up in the water column.

When you haven't had any success with more traditional methods.


Places to try it:

Like Peter said, shallow riffles are probably the number one place.

The upstream lip of pools.

Sometime a slow dead driftish swing through a pool will work.


Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

rw wrote:

The best caddis searching pattern, if I had to pick just one, is a PT
nymph.


I would agree as a general searching pattern but for a caddis specific
one, I vote for a soft hackle hands down.

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

rw wrote:

The best caddis searching pattern, if I had to pick just one, is a PT
nymph.


I would agree as a general searching pattern but for a caddis specific
one, I vote for a soft hackle hands down.

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:22:12 -0600, Willi wrote:



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.


You read my mind -- I'm thinking about the same fly sans wing --
however - - - -

When this fly is held in the current, I get a very natural V shape
wing in the water. I think the wing may say "caddis" more loudly,
when viewed from underneath. We can never know exactly what makes a
trout strike one particular fly over another, though we can usually
make some decent inferences. So . . . I'm loathed to tamper with it
as it appears to work as is.

My brown trout weamer works. Every, and I do mean every modification
I've made to that fly to "improve" it in some way, has reduced its
effectiveness, sometimes to the point of zero. I go back to the
original and good things happen all over again.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:22:12 -0600, Willi wrote:



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.


You read my mind -- I'm thinking about the same fly sans wing --
however - - - -

When this fly is held in the current, I get a very natural V shape
wing in the water. I think the wing may say "caddis" more loudly,
when viewed from underneath. We can never know exactly what makes a
trout strike one particular fly over another, though we can usually
make some decent inferences. So . . . I'm loathed to tamper with it
as it appears to work as is.

My brown trout weamer works. Every, and I do mean every modification
I've made to that fly to "improve" it in some way, has reduced its
effectiveness, sometimes to the point of zero. I go back to the
original and good things happen all over again.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:22:12 -0600, Willi wrote:



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.


You read my mind -- I'm thinking about the same fly sans wing --
however - - - -

When this fly is held in the current, I get a very natural V shape
wing in the water. I think the wing may say "caddis" more loudly,
when viewed from underneath. We can never know exactly what makes a
trout strike one particular fly over another, though we can usually
make some decent inferences. So . . . I'm loathed to tamper with it
as it appears to work as is.

My brown trout weamer works. Every, and I do mean every modification
I've made to that fly to "improve" it in some way, has reduced its
effectiveness, sometimes to the point of zero. I go back to the
original and good things happen all over again.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:22:42 -0600, Willi wrote:



Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.


I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?


That's THE question. The technique is an easy and fun one but figuring
out when to use it is what's tough. It's a technique that works better
in some places than in others and I've been unable to find the reason
for it. It's is an especially good technique on my home river during the
Summer. Below are some things I have picked up about fishing a fly with
action, whether it be skittering or swinging or lifting or......

Times to try it:

When there are active flies about - caddis, stoneflies, craneflies, etc.
about

When you see splashy rises

During the dog days of Summer when you don't want to dredge the deep
holes for fish, fishing feeding riffles and giving your fly some action
will sometimes bring fish out of their doldrums.

When you see flashes of fish up in the water column.

When you haven't had any success with more traditional methods.


Places to try it:

Like Peter said, shallow riffles are probably the number one place.

The upstream lip of pools.

Sometime a slow dead driftish swing through a pool will work.


Willi

I think the "where" is more easily answered -- where the bugs are.
That's not a facetious answer -- the Hydropsyche I'm imitating is a
lover of fast riffles -- which is probably why it is useless dead
drifted in slow water. Every single hit I had yesterday came in fast
water on the swing.

I'm a lazy fisherman who knows too much. I have to force myself to
use my knowledge to fish more effectively. I like to teach others but
I can't be bothered to do it myself unless, of course, I'm doing a
demo. I'm out to relax so concentrating on a miriad of little details
is too much like work. BUT! There's no doubt in my mind that if you
key in on a few bugs, learn their habits, and learn to fish them
according to their habits, your hit rate is gonna go way up. I've
made the decision that I'm going to pay close attention to just three
bugs, Hydropsyche, Cheumatopsyche, and Rhyacophillia -- learn where
they live and how they live, then fish them accordingly. These bugs
cover the waters I fish in Southern Ontario and are abundant through
most of the season, with only the need to add the Little Black Caddis
in the late spring, before my trimvirate gets active. I'll keep some
mayflies in the box for those days when they're abundant, but if I'm
not swinging a streamer, I'll be swinging these instead.

If I see any caddis hitting the water, that's my signal to get these
swinging. If I see bulging or jumping rises, that the signal to swing
emergers and tossing dries instead. If I see nothing anywhere, then
I'll swing these through a riffle simply because I don't like
nymphing.


Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:13:51 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?


Based on this sole experience, I did way better with this fly than
when I've used P&Os and the like on Whitemans.



Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:13:51 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?


Based on this sole experience, I did way better with this fly than
when I've used P&Os and the like on Whitemans.



Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.


Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?


From what I understand, variants are dry flies tied with dry fly hackle
as are American spiders. The British use the name spider for soft
hackles which I think are good wet caddis imitations, although I like
the "Americanized" soft hackles and flymphs better than the traditional
British ties..

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.


Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?


From what I understand, variants are dry flies tied with dry fly hackle
as are American spiders. The British use the name spider for soft
hackles which I think are good wet caddis imitations, although I like
the "Americanized" soft hackles and flymphs better than the traditional
British ties..

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Peter Charles wrote:

You read my mind -- I'm thinking about the same fly sans wing --
however - - - -

When this fly is held in the current, I get a very natural V shape
wing in the water. I think the wing may say "caddis" more loudly,
when viewed from underneath. We can never know exactly what makes a
trout strike one particular fly over another, though we can usually
make some decent inferences. So . . . I'm loathed to tamper with it
as it appears to work as is.

My brown trout weamer works. Every, and I do mean every modification
I've made to that fly to "improve" it in some way, has reduced its
effectiveness, sometimes to the point of zero. I go back to the
original and good things happen all over again.


Good points.

Although I'm not too big on using specific patterns, I do have some
favorites that just seem right. These are consistant producers for me. I
think it's partly because I have confidence in them but I also think
there's something about them that makes them special.

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Peter Charles wrote:

You read my mind -- I'm thinking about the same fly sans wing --
however - - - -

When this fly is held in the current, I get a very natural V shape
wing in the water. I think the wing may say "caddis" more loudly,
when viewed from underneath. We can never know exactly what makes a
trout strike one particular fly over another, though we can usually
make some decent inferences. So . . . I'm loathed to tamper with it
as it appears to work as is.

My brown trout weamer works. Every, and I do mean every modification
I've made to that fly to "improve" it in some way, has reduced its
effectiveness, sometimes to the point of zero. I go back to the
original and good things happen all over again.


Good points.

Although I'm not too big on using specific patterns, I do have some
favorites that just seem right. These are consistant producers for me. I
think it's partly because I have confidence in them but I also think
there's something about them that makes them special.

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Peter Charles wrote:


If I see any caddis hitting the water, that's my signal to get these
swinging. If I see bulging or jumping rises, that the signal to swing
emergers and tossing dries instead. If I see nothing anywhere, then
I'll swing these through a riffle simply because I don't like
nymphing.


Although, IMO, dead drifting nymphs is THE most effective technique day
in and day out, it's not a very fun way of fishing. Swinging wets and
some of the other nymphing techniques are much more fun. However, they
are not as consistently effective and it's hard, at least for me, to
determine when they are going to be effective.

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

Peter Charles wrote:


If I see any caddis hitting the water, that's my signal to get these
swinging. If I see bulging or jumping rises, that the signal to swing
emergers and tossing dries instead. If I see nothing anywhere, then
I'll swing these through a riffle simply because I don't like
nymphing.


Although, IMO, dead drifting nymphs is THE most effective technique day
in and day out, it's not a very fun way of fishing. Swinging wets and
some of the other nymphing techniques are much more fun. However, they
are not as consistently effective and it's hard, at least for me, to
determine when they are going to be effective.

Willi

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:38:52 -0600, Willi wrote:



Peter Charles wrote:


If I see any caddis hitting the water, that's my signal to get these
swinging. If I see bulging or jumping rises, that the signal to swing
emergers and tossing dries instead. If I see nothing anywhere, then
I'll swing these through a riffle simply because I don't like
nymphing.


Although, IMO, dead drifting nymphs is THE most effective technique day
in and day out, it's not a very fun way of fishing. Swinging wets and
some of the other nymphing techniques are much more fun. However, they
are not as consistently effective and it's hard, at least for me, to
determine when they are going to be effective.

Willi



I think the success of nymphing is also because more people do it a
lot of the time, plus they're applying it to places where fish are
known to be. The typical nympher fisher walks up to a run, sees no
surface activity and ties on a nymph then catches a whack of fish.
Would he have caught the same or more with another technique? Maybe,
but most anglers I know are two dimensional: dries or nymphs, so we
don't get to find out.

In heavily fished waters, the ability to do something other than nymph
can connect you with a lot of fish. Nymphers tend to stand in one
spot, swingers tend to move, so I frequently fish up to a nympher,
then walk around to continue downstream. It's quite common for me to
catch a fish on both sides of him as his pounding have pushed fish out
of the run. I really don't feel at a disadvantage by resorting to
other methods.

Peter

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Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:38:52 -0600, Willi wrote:



Peter Charles wrote:


If I see any caddis hitting the water, that's my signal to get these
swinging. If I see bulging or jumping rises, that the signal to swing
emergers and tossing dries instead. If I see nothing anywhere, then
I'll swing these through a riffle simply because I don't like
nymphing.


Although, IMO, dead drifting nymphs is THE most effective technique day
in and day out, it's not a very fun way of fishing. Swinging wets and
some of the other nymphing techniques are much more fun. However, they
are not as consistently effective and it's hard, at least for me, to
determine when they are going to be effective.

Willi



I think the success of nymphing is also because more people do it a
lot of the time, plus they're applying it to places where fish are
known to be. The typical nympher fisher walks up to a run, sees no
surface activity and ties on a nymph then catches a whack of fish.
Would he have caught the same or more with another technique? Maybe,
but most anglers I know are two dimensional: dries or nymphs, so we
don't get to find out.

In heavily fished waters, the ability to do something other than nymph
can connect you with a lot of fish. Nymphers tend to stand in one
spot, swingers tend to move, so I frequently fish up to a nympher,
then walk around to continue downstream. It's quite common for me to
catch a fish on both sides of him as his pounding have pushed fish out
of the run. I really don't feel at a disadvantage by resorting to
other methods.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success
 

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:38:52 -0600, Willi wrote:



Peter Charles wrote:


If I see any caddis hitting the water, that's my signal to get these
swinging. If I see bulging or jumping rises, that the signal to swing
emergers and tossing dries instead. If I see nothing anywhere, then
I'll swing these through a riffle simply because I don't like
nymphing.


Although, IMO, dead drifting nymphs is THE most effective technique day
in and day out, it's not a very fun way of fishing. Swinging wets and
some of the other nymphing techniques are much more fun. However, they
are not as consistently effective and it's hard, at least for me, to
determine when they are going to be effective.

Willi



I think the success of nymphing is also because more people do it a
lot of the time, plus they're applying it to places where fish are
known to be. The typical nympher fisher walks up to a run, sees no
surface activity and ties on a nymph then catches a whack of fish.
Would he have caught the same or more with another technique? Maybe,
but most anglers I know are two dimensional: dries or nymphs, so we
don't get to find out.

In heavily fished waters, the ability to do something other than nymph
can connect you with a lot of fish. Nymphers tend to stand in one
spot, swingers tend to move, so I frequently fish up to a nympher,
then walk around to continue downstream. It's quite common for me to
catch a fish on both sides of him as his pounding have pushed fish out
of the run. I really don't feel at a disadvantage by resorting to
other methods.

Peter

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Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html