newbie casting help
 

hello there folks,

Well I did it. I got a fly rod and now I'm trying to learn how to
cast. I have a book (LLBean) and have been hanging out at the local
sunfish pond practicing my "loops".

I know that this is one of those things that is almost impossible to
"explain" in a literary sense, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

As far as I can tell, my backcast loop is not half bad (half the
time). It's tight but doesn't close up. However on the foward cast,
I find that most of the line piles up about 15 feet in front of me,
regardless of how much line I have in the air. Right now I can roll
cast farther than regular cast. I'm going to read my book a few more
times, but what do you guys think? Also, I'm assuming that - hearing
the fly "snap" behind you - is a bad thing.

Anyway - it's way cool and fun but very confusing right now. At one
point I got a sunny on there, and had to drop the rod, and hand-line
it in - entirely spastic.

Sam

newbie casting help
 

Ok... I worked on that. I got the "snap" more or less under control -
bad timing. As far as the line piling up in front, I'm pretty sure I
was angling too close to the water, so it came crashing down.

I can get about 30 ft in the air and have it going back and forth nice
and easy, but more than that and I have a disaster on my hands. How
do you guys keep the line from crashing into the rod? Man that sucks!
I've seen some pretty ugly tangles but wow - instant birds nest.

You might be right about line weight mis-match. The fact is I bought
one of those kits that has everything included. I purposely got a 4
wt. rod, but who knows what line they included. I know.. kits are for
loosers .. but I'm out of work rightnow and the money is tight.
Anyone looking for a software developer (securities/trading) let me
know.

I'll point a Google eye on those organizations TU/FFF and see where
they are in relationship to me. Thanks

sm

newbie casting help
 

I'll point a Google eye on those organizations TU/FFF and see where
they are in relationship to me. Thanks

Where generally do you live? There's probably a ROFFian within casting
distance who would love an excuse to get out on the water and help you
out. You both get to fish, you casting gets better, and all's it will
cost you is a round of beer.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse Email to reply

newbie casting help
 

some places offer FREE casting lessons. i got mine from a local sporting
goods place which has a small fly fishing section amid the water skis, float
vests, hiking boot, backpacks, rifles, etc. call around. it may just be a
three hour offering with casting in a parking lot with rolled out astroturf
and a sit down afterwards showing off various reels and lines, but it can
really help.


eric
fresno, ca.




From: Mu Young Lee
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:51:41 -0400
Subject: newbie casting help

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Sam Matthews wrote:

I'll point a Google eye on those organizations TU/FFF and see where
they are in relationship to me. Thanks

If money is tight and you cannot afford lessons, $30 for Mel Krieger's
basic casting video would probably be well worth it.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

newbie casting help
 

Frank Reid wrote in message ...
I'll point a Google eye on those organizations TU/FFF and see where
they are in relationship to me. Thanks

Where generally do you live? There's probably a ROFFian within casting
distance who would love an excuse to get out on the water and help you
out. You both get to fish, you casting gets better, and all's it will
cost you is a round of beer.

Hey now... I live in Rockland County New York, about 40 min from the
GW. I would love to "hook up" (pun!!) with anyone in the area.

I went back to the sporting goods place and got some proper WF 4 line,
and it is somewhat lighter than what I had.

I'm practicing every other day, and while I think I'm getting better,
I'm by no means comfortable yet. No offense roff-folks, but fly
fishing is one big pain in the ass. I just don't get the practical
dynamics of it - as say compared to spin-casting. For example... how
do you fish a fly that you cast upstream? With spin casting it's
simple - cast - retreive - repeat. With a fly, once you toss it up
stream, how do you keep the line taught enough to even detect a
strike? Do you reel in, or hand line? And once you pull the fly all
the way back, you have to do all that false casting crap to get the
line back out there again? After a "false casts" on my part and the
fish have all run for cover, lest they be whipped to death.

Here's another question... in the normal process of correct casting,
is the body of line traveling ABOVE the rod, or along side of it. The
reason for my inquiry, is that, no matter how hard I try, it's only a
matter of time before the body of line crashes into the rod and -
instant bird's nest - @#$% fly sh@t suks ARRRhh.

Thanks again,

Sam


(remove nothing to spam me! - go ahead - see if I care)

newbie casting help
 

Frank Reid wrote in message ...
I'll point a Google eye on those organizations TU/FFF and see where
they are in relationship to me. Thanks

Where generally do you live? There's probably a ROFFian within casting
distance who would love an excuse to get out on the water and help you
out. You both get to fish, you casting gets better, and all's it will
cost you is a round of beer.

Hey now... I live in Rockland County New York, about 40 min from the
GW. I would love to "hook up" (pun!!) with anyone in the area.

I went back to the sporting goods place and got some proper WF 4 line,
and it is somewhat lighter than what I had.

I'm practicing every other day, and while I think I'm getting better,
I'm by no means comfortable yet. No offense roff-folks, but fly
fishing is one big pain in the ass. I just don't get the practical
dynamics of it - as say compared to spin-casting. For example... how
do you fish a fly that you cast upstream? With spin casting it's
simple - cast - retreive - repeat. With a fly, once you toss it up
stream, how do you keep the line taught enough to even detect a
strike? Do you reel in, or hand line? And once you pull the fly all
the way back, you have to do all that false casting crap to get the
line back out there again? After a "false casts" on my part and the
fish have all run for cover, lest they be whipped to death.

Here's another question... in the normal process of correct casting,
is the body of line traveling ABOVE the rod, or along side of it. The
reason for my inquiry, is that, no matter how hard I try, it's only a
matter of time before the body of line crashes into the rod and -
instant bird's nest - @#$% fly sh@t suks ARRRhh.

Thanks again,

Sam


(remove nothing to spam me! - go ahead - see if I care)

newbie casting help
 

"Sam Matthews" wrote...
Frank Reid wrote...
I'll point a Google eye on those organizations TU/FFF and see where
they are in relationship to me. Thanks

Where generally do you live? There's probably a ROFFian within casting
distance who would love an excuse to get out on the water and help you
out. You both get to fish, you casting gets better, and all's it will
cost you is a round of beer.

Hey now... I live in Rockland County New York, about 40 min from the
GW. I would love to "hook up" (pun!!)

First things first - STOP THAT! :)

with anyone in the area.

I went back to the sporting goods place and got some proper WF 4 line,
and it is somewhat lighter than what I had.

I'm practicing every other day, and while I think I'm getting better,
I'm by no means comfortable yet. No offense roff-folks, but fly
fishing is one big pain in the ass. I just don't get the practical
dynamics of it - as say compared to spin-casting. For example... how
do you fish a fly that you cast upstream? With spin casting it's
simple - cast - retreive - repeat. With a fly, once you toss it up
stream, how do you keep the line taught enough to even detect a
strike? Do you reel in, or hand line? And once you pull the fly all
the way back, you have to do all that false casting crap to get the
line back out there again? After a "false casts" on my part and the
fish have all run for cover, lest they be whipped to death.

Here's another question... in the normal process of correct casting,
is the body of line traveling ABOVE the rod, or along side of it. The
reason for my inquiry, is that, no matter how hard I try, it's only a
matter of time before the body of line crashes into the rod and -
instant bird's nest - @#$% fly sh@t suks ARRRhh.

I'm back to my original recommendation - get involved with a local TU or FFF
chapter and go to a few meetings. Talk to some of the people and let them know
you're just starting and the problems you're having. Chances are very good they
can solve a lot of the mechanical problems during a five minute conversation or
demo. Also, go to http://www.sexyloops.com/ and check out their casting
tutorials, or buy a video and a good book on basics. My guess on your "another
question" issue is that you're trying to keep too much line in the air for too
long of a duration. Save that for when you're an old pro. For the time being,
start with about 10-15 feet of line out until you can keep it in the air above
the rod, then slowly add more line. DT line is best to learn on, IMO. All you're
trying to do is get enough line out to properly present a fly to a fish, so
start on a small stream where you only need 15-20 feet of line to accomplish the
job.

The main difference between fly fishing and spin fishing is what you are
casting. With spin casting, you're casting whatever is on the end of the line.
With fly casting, you're casting the line itself (more like rolling out line).
You cant really use any of the mechanics of one for the other.

Another possibility that may be causing problems is the rigging of the backing,
line, leader, and tippet. If these are improperly assembled, you won't be able
to properly present the fly to the fish. Get to a fly shop and have them take a
look at what you've got so you know it's put together correctly.
--
HTH,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

newbie casting help
 

"Sam Matthews" wrote...
Frank Reid wrote...
I'll point a Google eye on those organizations TU/FFF and see where
they are in relationship to me. Thanks

Where generally do you live? There's probably a ROFFian within casting
distance who would love an excuse to get out on the water and help you
out. You both get to fish, you casting gets better, and all's it will
cost you is a round of beer.

Hey now... I live in Rockland County New York, about 40 min from the
GW. I would love to "hook up" (pun!!)

First things first - STOP THAT! :)

with anyone in the area.

I went back to the sporting goods place and got some proper WF 4 line,
and it is somewhat lighter than what I had.

I'm practicing every other day, and while I think I'm getting better,
I'm by no means comfortable yet. No offense roff-folks, but fly
fishing is one big pain in the ass. I just don't get the practical
dynamics of it - as say compared to spin-casting. For example... how
do you fish a fly that you cast upstream? With spin casting it's
simple - cast - retreive - repeat. With a fly, once you toss it up
stream, how do you keep the line taught enough to even detect a
strike? Do you reel in, or hand line? And once you pull the fly all
the way back, you have to do all that false casting crap to get the
line back out there again? After a "false casts" on my part and the
fish have all run for cover, lest they be whipped to death.

Here's another question... in the normal process of correct casting,
is the body of line traveling ABOVE the rod, or along side of it. The
reason for my inquiry, is that, no matter how hard I try, it's only a
matter of time before the body of line crashes into the rod and -
instant bird's nest - @#$% fly sh@t suks ARRRhh.

I'm back to my original recommendation - get involved with a local TU or FFF
chapter and go to a few meetings. Talk to some of the people and let them know
you're just starting and the problems you're having. Chances are very good they
can solve a lot of the mechanical problems during a five minute conversation or
demo. Also, go to http://www.sexyloops.com/ and check out their casting
tutorials, or buy a video and a good book on basics. My guess on your "another
question" issue is that you're trying to keep too much line in the air for too
long of a duration. Save that for when you're an old pro. For the time being,
start with about 10-15 feet of line out until you can keep it in the air above
the rod, then slowly add more line. DT line is best to learn on, IMO. All you're
trying to do is get enough line out to properly present a fly to a fish, so
start on a small stream where you only need 15-20 feet of line to accomplish the
job.

The main difference between fly fishing and spin fishing is what you are
casting. With spin casting, you're casting whatever is on the end of the line.
With fly casting, you're casting the line itself (more like rolling out line).
You cant really use any of the mechanics of one for the other.

Another possibility that may be causing problems is the rigging of the backing,
line, leader, and tippet. If these are improperly assembled, you won't be able
to properly present the fly to the fish. Get to a fly shop and have them take a
look at what you've got so you know it's put together correctly.
--
HTH,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

newbie casting help
 

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Sam Matthews wrote:

matter of time before the body of line crashes into the rod and -
instant bird's nest - @#$% fly sh@t suks ARRRhh.

Here's a little tip. Before starting any casting motion or just before
changing direction make sure that there is as little slack line as
possible. If you are false casting this means letting the line finish (or
nearly finish as you get better with the timing) its trajectory in one
direction before you change directions (eg. going from a backcast to a
forward cast or redirecting the cast to another location on the water).
If you are about to pick up line that is in the water make sure there is
as little slack as well. This could mean stripping in some line by hand
or it could mean letting the current drag the line downstream - although
this might put down some fish, etc. Keep in mind the general principle
(see second sentence of this paragraph). How you manage to accomplish
this depends on the particular situation as I've given you three examples
which by no means covers all the possibilities.

Unless you are doing a sidearm cast or a Belgian underhand cast or some
other variation, the typical overhead cast should have the line above the
rod tip.

Mu

newbie casting help
 

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Sam Matthews wrote:

matter of time before the body of line crashes into the rod and -
instant bird's nest - @#$% fly sh@t suks ARRRhh.

Here's a little tip. Before starting any casting motion or just before
changing direction make sure that there is as little slack line as
possible. If you are false casting this means letting the line finish (or
nearly finish as you get better with the timing) its trajectory in one
direction before you change directions (eg. going from a backcast to a
forward cast or redirecting the cast to another location on the water).
If you are about to pick up line that is in the water make sure there is
as little slack as well. This could mean stripping in some line by hand
or it could mean letting the current drag the line downstream - although
this might put down some fish, etc. Keep in mind the general principle
(see second sentence of this paragraph). How you manage to accomplish
this depends on the particular situation as I've given you three examples
which by no means covers all the possibilities.

Unless you are doing a sidearm cast or a Belgian underhand cast or some
other variation, the typical overhead cast should have the line above the
rod tip.

Mu

newbie casting help
 

In article ,
(Sam Matthews) wrote:

Frank Reid wrote in message
...
I'll point a Google eye on those organizations TU/FFF and see where
they are in relationship to me. Thanks

Where generally do you live? There's probably a ROFFian within casting
distance who would love an excuse to get out on the water and help you
out. You both get to fish, you casting gets better, and all's it will
cost you is a round of beer.

Hey now... I live in Rockland County New York, about 40 min from the
GW. I would love to "hook up" (pun!!) with anyone in the area.

I went back to the sporting goods place and got some proper WF 4 line,
and it is somewhat lighter than what I had.

I'm practicing every other day, and while I think I'm getting better,
I'm by no means comfortable yet. No offense roff-folks, but fly
fishing is one big pain in the ass. I just don't get the practical
dynamics of it - as say compared to spin-casting. For example... how
do you fish a fly that you cast upstream? With spin casting it's
simple - cast - retreive - repeat. With a fly, once you toss it up
stream, how do you keep the line taught enough to even detect a
strike? Do you reel in, or hand line? And once you pull the fly all
the way back, you have to do all that false casting crap to get the
line back out there again? After a "false casts" on my part and the
fish have all run for cover, lest they be whipped to death.

Here's another question... in the normal process of correct casting,
is the body of line traveling ABOVE the rod, or along side of it. The
reason for my inquiry, is that, no matter how hard I try, it's only a
matter of time before the body of line crashes into the rod and -
instant bird's nest - @#$% fly sh@t suks ARRRhh.

Thanks again,

Sam


(remove nothing to spam me! - go ahead - see if I care)

Have you thought of hiring a guide? Or if you are short on funds maybe
joining a flyfishing club?

newbie casting help
 

trying to do is get enough line out to properly present a fly to a fish, so
start on a small stream where you only need 15-20 feet of line to accomplish the job.

See, that's a big help already. I'm pretty happy with 20 feet of
line, and will keep doing that until I'm *very* happy.

BTW, I went to www.sexyboobs.com but I couldn't find the fly-casting
department. :)

sm



I'm back to my original recommendation - get involved with a local TU or FFF
chapter and go to a few meetings. Talk to some of the people and let them know
you're just starting and the problems you're having. Chances are very good they
can solve a lot of the mechanical problems during a five minute conversation or
demo.

newbie casting help
 

trying to do is get enough line out to properly present a fly to a fish, so
start on a small stream where you only need 15-20 feet of line to accomplish the job.

See, that's a big help already. I'm pretty happy with 20 feet of
line, and will keep doing that until I'm *very* happy.

BTW, I went to www.sexyboobs.com but I couldn't find the fly-casting
department. :)

sm



I'm back to my original recommendation - get involved with a local TU or FFF
chapter and go to a few meetings. Talk to some of the people and let them know
you're just starting and the problems you're having. Chances are very good they
can solve a lot of the mechanical problems during a five minute conversation or
demo.

newbie casting help
 

(Sam Matthews) wrote in message . com...
trying to do is get enough line out to properly present a fly to a fish, so
start on a small stream where you only need 15-20 feet of line to accomplish the job.

See, that's a big help already. I'm pretty happy with 20 feet of
line, and will keep doing that until I'm *very* happy.

BTW, I went to www.sexyboobs.com but I couldn't find the fly-casting
department. :)

sm
Hi Sam,
Tim's opinion of keeping your casting distance(for now) under..~25' is
an excellent point...IMHO.
First, hat's off to you!...you know the rods that come in those
"package deals" are NOT the easiest rods to throw a line with.
They're usually pretty slow & weak in their flex...bending all the way
down into the butt/cork area, which is what is coined as "slow
action"... and possessing little backbone in the butt section. Thus
you have to give the strokes(both back & forward strokes) time to
98%_unfurl...so don't rush through each stroke, take your time...and I
mean, REALLY take your time...that's one of the reasons for your
"Cracking the Wip" with the line at the end of the backcast, not
enough time was given for the line to almost fully play out....before
initiating the loading of the forward stroke. Let the rod do the
work.
A personal_$.02, you don't need a tight loop on the backcast, so ease
up...but be sure to make the line pick-up and backcast motion in the
common phrase: "Speed Up & Stop", start the line pick-up slow but
accellerate the arm motion speed to the final "point"(a abrupt
Stop)...where you want the line to specifically go. If you use this
same motion for the forward stroke...you shouldn't have many
problems(for starters).
Sorry for the rambline...just three more points:
1) Make an easy, narrow oval in you whole motion....pick-up into
backcast into forward stroke, MOST everything is determined by the
initial loading into the forward stroke anyways...
2) Keep your wrist rather firm, don't tighten/tense it up, just make
your hand the outer extension of your forearm.
3) Keep your wrist cocked just ever so slightly back...from the
direction that your forearm is traveling...that is up until the VERY,
very last moment....whe (at the end of the backcast)-- do a
hitchhiker's thumb...and(at the end of the forward stroke)-- "Press
in a thumbtack...into the rod handle's cork".
_______________
....again, take Tim's advice and keep things short..but in control!
The videos are great!....you can catch visually in 5 seconds what it
takes 10 lines to type.
For casting, both Mel Krieger's and Doug Swisher's videos!(Doug has a
wrist of iron and uses rather fast action rods, so beware!:-)..makes
my wrist ache just to watch, but his technique is superb....both these
guys are second to none.

$.02 & a whole lot more,,,maybe a little too much;-)
Have Fun
Steve