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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:04:10 -0600, Barney Fife
wrote: http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=650 Isn't this the case with most rivers in built up areas in the US? |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
A User wrote:
Barney Fife wrote: http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=650 Isn't this the case with most rivers in built up areas in the US? yep. people see a river as a place to toss stuff they no longer want. cities dump their sewage in rivers. I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. I LOL at Raleigh for allowing homes with open septic drain fields on land around Falls lake where Raleigh takes their drinking water from. sad these things are but LOL is better than crying since neither will change how big money is ruining this planet. |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Jim Ledford wrote in news:44039637.A15C8C21
@bellsouth.net: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. snip Well, laughingboy, water discharged from a properly designed and operated waste treatment plant is cleaner than the water drawn out of many open lakes in the United States. Chicago's Metropolitan Sanitary District (MSD) is such a waste treatment operation. In fact, MSD could bottle it, sell it to you, and you'd never know. If you want pure virgin water you need to get hydrogen and oxygen and combine them by burning. |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:26:14 -0500, Sheldon Harper
wrote: Jim Ledford wrote in news:44039637.A15C8C21 : snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. snip Well, laughingboy, water discharged from a properly designed and operated waste treatment plant is cleaner than the water drawn out of many open lakes in the United States. Chicago's Metropolitan Sanitary District (MSD) is such a waste treatment operation. In fact, MSD could bottle it, sell it to you, and you'd never know. If you want pure virgin water you need to get hydrogen and oxygen and combine them by burning. I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
..
I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. LOL. your "best guess"? you just made that up. |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
In article ,
Lawrence Glickman wrote: I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. I'm guessing iron. I'd bet money against visible organic matter if the water actually came out of a municipally-supplied tap. Without proper collection, storage and testing (all of which are a genuine pain in the keister), an experiment such as yours tells you one thing: "there's a brown precipitate in the water." Our tap water comes from a private well. On occasion, it is brown or blood-**** colored. At first, I too thought it might be some kind of fertilizer. We live in a rural area, after all. So, I went online and found out how to collect tap water for testing. Collected it, stored it and took it to a commercial testing facility where (after paying $50 per sample) we found out our worries were unwarranted. It was just a heavy concentration of iron, common in the midwest. |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Lawrence Glickman wrote:
[....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
bearclaw wrote:
Lawrence Glickman wrote: I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. I'm guessing iron. I'd bet money against visible organic matter if the water actually came out of a municipally-supplied tap. Without proper collection, storage and testing (all of which are a genuine pain in the keister), an experiment such as yours tells you one thing: "there's a brown precipitate in the water." Our tap water comes from a private well. On occasion, it is brown or blood-**** colored. At first, I too thought it might be some kind of fertilizer. We live in a rural area, after all. So, I went online and found out how to collect tap water for testing. Collected it, stored it and took it to a commercial testing facility where (after paying $50 per sample) we found out our worries were unwarranted. It was just a heavy concentration of iron, common in the midwest. just keep telling yourself that. stay happy. |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford
wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I will need a biology microscope to investigate the exact nature of the material collected as *precipitate,* or it can be removed, dried, then burned and its' color spectrum analyzed for materials present. I will never have enough $ for the spectrum analyzer, but I might be able to borrow a bio microscope. I know human feces is composed 50% by weight of bacteria. I also know what bacteria look like ( I studied Invertibrate Zoology in college ). If the precipitate is organic in origin, I will identify it as such. These things have cell walls, even if they are bacteria. Iron does not have cell walls. If there are cell walls present, you can be assured it is ORGANIC in nature. (*) denotes *you* plural, not Jim in particular. There are many many communities that have fecal material in their water supply. It is dead, but other things in there are no good. For example, did you know that the chlorine that is added to water to kill the bacteria often transmutes into chloriform? which is a carcinogen. And furthermore, there is the fact that Lake Michigan has a deposit underwater of the Highest concentration of Dioxin known on EARTH, from a chemical plant that released its' effluent into the Lake for 50 years before it was shut down. EPA doesn't dare touch it, for fear of putting it into suspension and disbursing into the drinking water supply ( their philosopy is let sleeping dogs lie ). And then there are the unknow contents of thousands of barrels of who knows what that have leached into the soil along southern lake Michigan from over 1 century of Industrail Steel Production. In fact, during one hard rain which forced a sewage treatment plant in Hammond, Indiana to overflow its' containment walls, the neighboring town brought in earthmoving equipment and put up EARTHEN DIKES between Hammond and their township ( hegewish ) so that contamination wouldn't spread into their community. Again, children are often burned in puddles of who knows what that are found when it rains and absorbs toxins from the soil here. Superfund EPA technicians have investigated unmarked and leaking barrels in my area and have NO IDEA what is in them. They remain to this day...unidentified. No doubt a witche's brew of all the harmful things humanity can invent but wants nothing to do with. Left behind by manufacturing for someone else to clean up. Lg |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
In article , Lawrence
Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Lawrence Glickman wrote:
Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. You really in over your head here, most of the sediment in fresh water lakes is plane old suspended dirt, if it was not there, you would not have any fish in the water. Most of it is from ground run off, you also will have quit a bit of microbial life, it's called the food chain,, if there is any crap in there, 99% of that crap, is fish crap (yes fish actually **** in the water they swim in. :-) I hate to tell you this, but much of the canned veggies you eat are grown with "dead" human feces, Delmonte buys the stuff from sewage treatment plants,( I know this because I have seen their field injection trucks (they have plows at the back of the trucks) loading the stuff up at a plant right out side Gettesburg and puts it on their fields.) Of course animal crap is one of the best fertilizers there is I will need a biology microscope to investigate the exact nature of the material collected as *precipitate,* or it can be removed, dried, then burned and its' color spectrum analyzed for materials present. I will never have enough $ for the spectrum analyzer, but I might be able to borrow a bio microscope. I know human feces is composed 50% by weight of bacteria. I also know what bacteria look like ( I studied Invertibrate Zoology in college ). Then you should know that all natural water is full of bacteria, it is the basic start of the food chain, and it breaks down other organic compounds, to the minerals that life needs to live in water If the precipitate is organic in origin, I will identify it as such. These things have cell walls, even if they are bacteria. Iron does not have cell walls. If there are cell walls present, you can be assured it is ORGANIC in nature. If there s nothing organic in that water, then your lake is DOA (*) denotes *you* plural, not Jim in particular. There are many many communities that have fecal material in their water supply. It is dead, but other things in there are no good. For example, did you know that the chlorine that is added to water to kill the bacteria often transmutes into chloriform? which is a carcinogen. And furthermore, there is the fact that Lake Michigan has a deposit underwater of the Highest concentration of Dioxin known on EARTH, from a chemical plant that released its' effluent into the Lake for 50 years before it was shut down. EPA doesn't dare touch it, for fear of putting it into suspension and disbursing into the drinking water supply ( their philosopy is let sleeping dogs lie ). And then there are the unknow contents of thousands of barrels of who knows what that have leached into the soil along southern lake Michigan from over 1 century of Industrail Steel Production. In fact, during one hard rain which forced a sewage treatment plant in Hammond, Indiana to overflow its' containment walls, the neighboring town brought in earthmoving equipment and put up EARTHEN DIKES between Hammond and their township ( hegewish ) so that contamination wouldn't spread into their community. You don't sell water purifiers, do you ? -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) Pragmatism has no place here - it demotivates the hand wringers... :) AL |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:01:30 -0600, Rodney Long
wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. You really in over your head here, most of the sediment in fresh water lakes is plane old suspended dirt, if it was not there, you would not have any fish in the water. Most of it is from ground run off, you also will have quit a bit of microbial life, it's called the food chain,, if there is any crap in there, 99% of that crap, is fish crap (yes fish actually **** in the water they swim in. :-) I hate to tell you this, but much of the canned veggies you eat are grown with "dead" human feces, Delmonte buys the stuff from sewage treatment plants,( I know this because I have seen their field injection trucks (they have plows at the back of the trucks) loading the stuff up at a plant right out side Gettesburg and puts it on their fields.) Of course animal crap is one of the best fertilizers there is I will need a biology microscope to investigate the exact nature of the material collected as *precipitate,* or it can be removed, dried, then burned and its' color spectrum analyzed for materials present. I will never have enough $ for the spectrum analyzer, but I might be able to borrow a bio microscope. I know human feces is composed 50% by weight of bacteria. I also know what bacteria look like ( I studied Invertibrate Zoology in college ). Then you should know that all natural water is full of bacteria, it is the basic start of the food chain, and it breaks down other organic compounds, to the minerals that life needs to live in water If the precipitate is organic in origin, I will identify it as such. These things have cell walls, even if they are bacteria. Iron does not have cell walls. If there are cell walls present, you can be assured it is ORGANIC in nature. If there s nothing organic in that water, then your lake is DOA (*) denotes *you* plural, not Jim in particular. There are many many communities that have fecal material in their water supply. It is dead, but other things in there are no good. For example, did you know that the chlorine that is added to water to kill the bacteria often transmutes into chloriform? which is a carcinogen. And furthermore, there is the fact that Lake Michigan has a deposit underwater of the Highest concentration of Dioxin known on EARTH, from a chemical plant that released its' effluent into the Lake for 50 years before it was shut down. EPA doesn't dare touch it, for fear of putting it into suspension and disbursing into the drinking water supply ( their philosopy is let sleeping dogs lie ). And then there are the unknow contents of thousands of barrels of who knows what that have leached into the soil along southern lake Michigan from over 1 century of Industrail Steel Production. In fact, during one hard rain which forced a sewage treatment plant in Hammond, Indiana to overflow its' containment walls, the neighboring town brought in earthmoving equipment and put up EARTHEN DIKES between Hammond and their township ( hegewish ) so that contamination wouldn't spread into their community. You don't sell water purifiers, do you ? No, but I've watched deniers like yourself DIE FROM CANCER in the hospital. Their oncologists tell me the water did them in. Drink up old chap. Have a *tall one* on me. Lg |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
In , Lawrence Glickman wrote:
You don't see a problem, which means you are pig assed stupid. Contaminants collect in the fatty tissues of the human body, the filter units ( liver and kidneys ) and can become cancerous. Fecal matter that was the main contaminant mentioned up to now sure doesn't! Contaminants tax the immune system, until one day the immune system can't keep up with the chemical/organic insult anymore and disease takes over. Take solice in the fact that if all the fat-soluble toxins that are currently stored in YOUR fat reserves were released into your bloodstream all at once, you would be dead in short order. Although there are fat-soluble toxic materials that get into people and mostly from pollution, the problem happens to mostly be small enough for overweight/obese overeaters managing to later get down to normal weight to have health benefits from losing fat rather than ill effects of reduced ability to store toxic chemicals in dwindling fatty areas. Cattle aren't expected to live long enough ( 4 to 6 years ) to show signs of a deteriorating immune system, except in the cases of Anthrax and BSE. What about dairy cows? Humans otoh, who want to see 80 years of age, better walk the thin line and keep as many carcinogens out of their body as possible, as many ACCUMULATE IN CONCENTRATION AND QUANTITY as the years go by. Some things to keep in mind: 1. Cancer is not the No. 1 cause of death in the USA. Heart disease is. 2. Most cancer is preventable by avoiding known causes and contributing factors other than eating/drinking chemicals: a) Lung cancer - by a large margin the biggest cancer problem, with a very large majority having smoking as either sole cause or main essential contributing factor. A distant second is known - radon, from buildings being more sealed than they were before the 1970's energy "crisis". b) Colon/rectum cancer - known to be much more common in people who are overweight/obese. To a lesser extent, some evidence exists that a diet lower in fat and higher in fiber helps. That big study with results released recently and supposedly indicating lack of benefits of such a diet only lasted 8 years and *did* show a significant reduction of colon polyps (a precursor of colon cancer) and a deemed-insignificant-by-the-studiers 9% reduction in breast cancer. Oh, and the study was a fat-vs.-carbs one. The "experimental group" reducing fat intake maintained calorie intake through carbs - although "recommended"-healthy forms, fruits and whole grains. I expect that much more significant cancer avoidance would have occurred if the dieters actually consumed fewer calories and lost weight. BTW, the lower-fat higher-carb group with same calories did not gain weight. Actually they lost 5 pounds and gained back about half of that for a very slight net loss. A major purpose of that study was to determine if fat calories and carb calories were more fattening and the results indicated close enough to a draw - with higher-carb lower-fat being less fattening to an extent small enough to consider insignificant and likely not always repeatable. c) Breast cancer - known to be somewhat and significantly more common among overweight people. By at least one account, breast cancer is twice as common among obese women as among women who are not overweight at all. Keep in mind that about .7% of breast cancers are in men! d) Skin cancer - that took a big uptick in the 1980's and 1990's with an uptick in popularity of suntanning, as well as population shift within the USA to sunnier areas. There are many varieties of skin cancer: Basal Cell Carcinoma - a more common less deadly one Squamous Cell Carcinoma - another more-common less-deadly one (Both of these require treatment but a week or month or 2-month delay is unlikely to kill you) Malignant Melanoma - I have heard of 7 varieties, with the 5 most common of those 7 starting at visible primary sites on skin, the 4 most common of all starting at dark-pigmented primary sites in skin, and the most common 3 of these being caused by sun exposure and especially severe sunburn. One form ("acryl lentiginous"), I believe 4th-place of incidence of malignant melanoma, is largely not caused by sunburn and occurs close to equally among people of all races. 5 of the other 6 that I have heard of occurs more among lighter-skin people. But bottom line, I would not blame environment for most or even much of cancers. Lifestyle choices and "go-along-to-get-along" could account for a good 2/3 of cancers. Also, part of the reason that the USA has more cancer is that nowadays Americans are getting more and better heart and kidney disease and stroke treatment, better treatment of infectious diseases, vaccinations against some bad infectious diseases, and after that fewer war deaths and cars now being more crashworthy than they were decades ago so Americans live longer to have a better chance at getting cancer. - Don Klipstein ) |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
In , Lawrence Glickman wrote:
On 27 Feb 2006 23:01:30 -0600, Rodney Long wrote: You don't sell water purifiers, do you ? No, but I've watched deniers like yourself DIE FROM CANCER in the hospital. Their oncologists tell me the water did them in. Drink up old chap. Have a *tall one* on me. I work a job delivering food from a restaurant to a neighborhood having 2 teaching hospitals, 2 other hospitals and 4 universities and a college. And I waste time doing some reading all of the many newspapers and publications that I can find while doing my job! Done that very many years... And surely I would have to hear of half a bazillion studies and a gadzillion anecdotes! This water issue I find ranking low! Makes me think that L. Glickman is either selling or sold on a water purifier! - Don Klipstein ) |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:57:23 -0800, Joshua Putnam
wrote: In article , says... THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I will need a biology microscope to investigate the exact nature of the material collected as *precipitate,* or it can be removed, dried, then burned and its' color spectrum analyzed for materials present. I will never have enough $ for the spectrum analyzer, but I might be able to borrow a bio microscope. Ever consider taking a properly-bottled sample to a competent testing lab that already owns the necessary equipment for a far more accurate analysis than you're likely to achieve at home? I know what is in the drinking water as far as the Village is willing to release to the public. They sent me ( as a homeowner ) an analysis a while back but for the life of me I can't find it at the moment. IIRC, it passed muster IMO, so maybe I tossed it. Did that at a previous hom because of exactly this sort of brown precipitate issue, and it was indeed simply a very high iron concentration. Turned out that beautiful light-gray sand our aquifer ran through was so high in iron that the sand would rust and turn brown if exposed to air for a few weeks. Well, iron is a necessary mineral for any healthy person, up to a point. Beyond that point, it becomes a POISON. 18 ( eighteen ) milligrams of Iron is accepted as the recommended daily allowance for one each adult human. Beyond that, you're asking for trouble. Also, the presence of bacteria in general won't confirm fecal origins, there are bacteria that thrive on dissolved iron in wells like that. A water district on the same aquifer had to repeatedly hoist and clean their well filters because the iron-loving bacteria would plug the intake filters. Zero coliform count, just lots of bacteria, and lots of iron. Actually, I read somewhere that it is a GOOD IDEA to let algae grow on your sediment prefilter, as this somehow helps in the water purification process. I don't remember the exact mechanism for this. I do know that I let algae ( green ) grown on my sediment pre-filter and do not *worry* about it contaminating anything. In fact, it helps in the cleansing process. I do still want a bio microscope though. I've been looking for an unwanted/unused one for years, but no luck to date. The ones on e-bay are to rich for my blood. Using polarized contrast-phase lighting, you can view LIVE specimines without killing them. So in summary, there are 2 kinds of pollutants: organic inorganic ( chemicals ) Both can hurt you. Cryptosporidium closed down the Milwaukee Wisconsin water supply not to many years ago. There was a boil order in effect for many days befor that was brought under control. Did you know that as few as 3 to 5 Giardia Lamblia cysts can cause Giardiasis? Explosive diarrhea. The kind that can dehydrate and kill you if you don't get the correct medicines in time ( Flagyl, etc. ) in the right doses. I know of someone who went to Mexico and ended up spending over a month in hospital for treatment of Giardia Lamblia infection. Then there are the otherwise unexplained brain cancers, liver cancers, bowel cancers...I don't rule out the water supply as a contributor to these killers. Belittle it all you like. Drink UP! Down the hatch...that a boy. Good Fella! My that was tasty wasn't it? Lg |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Lawrence_Glickman wrote:
Joshua Putnam wrote: Lawrence_Glickman wrote: THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I will need a biology microscope to investigate the exact nature of the material collected as *precipitate,* or it can be removed, dried, then burned and its' color spectrum analyzed for materials present. I will never have enough $ for the spectrum analyzer, but I might be able to borrow a bio microscope. Ever consider taking a properly-bottled sample to a competent testing lab that already owns the necessary equipment for a far more accurate analysis than you're likely to achieve at home? I know what is in the drinking water as far as the Village is willing to release to the public. They sent me ( as a homeowner ) an analysis a while back but for the life of me I can't find it at the moment. IIRC, it passed muster IMO, so maybe I tossed it. Did that at a previous hom because of exactly this sort of brown precipitate issue, and it was indeed simply a very high iron concentration. Turned out that beautiful light-gray sand our aquifer ran through was so high in iron that the sand would rust and turn brown if exposed to air for a few weeks. Well, iron is a necessary mineral for any healthy person, up to a point. Beyond that point, it becomes a POISON. 18 ( eighteen ) milligrams of Iron is accepted as the recommended daily allowance for one each adult human. Beyond that, you're asking for trouble. Also, the presence of bacteria in general won't confirm fecal origins, there are bacteria that thrive on dissolved iron in wells like that. A water district on the same aquifer had to repeatedly hoist and clean their well filters because the iron-loving bacteria would plug the intake filters. Zero coliform count, just lots of bacteria, and lots of iron. Actually, I read somewhere that it is a GOOD IDEA to let algae grow on your sediment prefilter, as this somehow helps in the water purification process. I don't remember the exact mechanism for this. I do know that I let algae ( green ) grown on my sediment pre-filter and do not *worry* about it contaminating anything. In fact, it helps in the cleansing process. I do still want a bio microscope though. I've been looking for an unwanted/unused one for years, but no luck to date. The ones on e-bay are to rich for my blood. Using polarized contrast-phase lighting, you can view LIVE specimines without killing them. So in summary, there are 2 kinds of pollutants: organic inorganic ( chemicals ) Both can hurt you. Cryptosporidium closed down the Milwaukee Wisconsin water supply not to many years ago. There was a boil order in effect for many days befor that was brought under control. Did you know that as few as 3 to 5 Giardia Lamblia cysts can cause Giardiasis? Explosive diarrhea. The kind that can dehydrate and kill you if you don't get the correct medicines in time ( Flagyl, etc. ) in the right doses. I know of someone who went to Mexico and ended up spending over a month in hospital for treatment of Giardia Lamblia infection. Then there are the otherwise unexplained brain cancers, liver cancers, bowel cancers...I don't rule out the water supply as a contributor to these killers. Belittle it all you like. Drink UP! Down the hatch...that a boy. Good Fella! My that was tasty wasn't it? Lg good morning Lawrence. people for a long time have made themselves happy with thinking how their government loves them, takes care of them and puts their well being first and foremost above all. me, I've known for a long time how the government is a bunch of liars who steal, lie, cheat and work from behind closed doors in order to maintain their privileged class existence at the expense of the [tax paying module]. understanding of how the [tax paying module] has been placed at the bottom of the food chain by the government sheds light onto the truth concerning just how much the government really cares. government plays a nice lip service to the lowly [tax paying module] with nice catch phrases such as, The Clean Air and Water Act, and another catch phrase known as Super Fund. there are two kinds of contaminates in the drinking water supply, chemical and organic. both got into the water supply by man's own carelessness and neglect for what is actually the right thing to do. forever industry has taken the less expensive route of dumping the chemical and heavy metals waste with the least cost possible to itself. usually this means out the back door and onto the ground and without containment of any sort rain run off carries these contaminates into the ground water supply. cities such as Raleigh NC which have experienced unreal growth as a result of everyone in the universe wanting to live there can't keep up with the demands placed on their human sewage treatment facilities resulting in overflows. sometimes reported as spills they are necessary to keep the city running and provide for the need of people to release their excrement. it is a sad state of existence we find ourselves in today on this earth as a result of the greed of many who would abuse others for their own gain. with government bought and paid for by the wealthy controlling privileged class, there is little hope of anything changing for the good of the financially challenged members of mankind known to the government as the [tax paying module]. people don't like being shown how they've been used and abused for years. the revealing causes those who have been used to enter into a state of denial whereby they are compelled to reject any notion of any other human having abused them. from a sociological stand point all humans are driven to expound with vigorous argument constructed from elaborate detail of how they are in charge of their destiny and in possession of a greater understanding of all matters than any of their competing fellow inhabitants. for this reason whenever one human makes an attempt to explain to other humans there will always be rejection for the explanation. the drinking water is polluted. man did it. man now gets to live with that. |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Lawrence_Glickman wrote:
Belittle it all you like. Drink UP! Down the hatch...that a boy. Good Fella! My that was tasty wasn't it? I had a friend like you, but he also sold a very high priced water filters door to door. He died a few years back,, a truck hit his car, and killed him, while he was going to save another family's life with a new water filter. Selling water filters, is what killed him. -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
I do still want a bio microscope though. I've been looking for an unwanted/unused one for years, but no luck to date. The ones on e-bay are to rich for my blood. Using polarized contrast-phase lighting, you can view LIVE specimines without killing them. Try American Science and Surplus (www.sciplus.com) They've got a nice-sounding 0060-1500X binocular microscope for only about $600. (there's cheaper ones too, down to about $130, but that's the nice one) |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
You're correct, of course, Don. To someone with lots of industrial
water treatment experience such as myself, this guy comes across as a raving lunatic who has managed to find a water treatment glossary somewhere and is randomly picking words to use. The fact is, unless someone is ****ting in yer well, fecal matter does NOT add color to water. The dilution is simply too high. The detection method for fecal matter in water is the coliform bacteria that always accompanies it. Bacteria can be cultured until it has multiplied enough to be observable. The fecal matter itself cannot be. Moreover, if there is excess chlorine in the water, an EPA requirement, whatever is there is sterile. If any of what this lid says is true, most likely the sediment is carry-over from the floctreater. Muddy water is first treated with a floculating agent (alum is the most common) that causes the suspended matter to agglomerate into gelatinous masses that are easily removed by the subsequent sand filter. Sometimes this matter carries over during filter backflush or malfunction. Though it looks bad because it is mud-colored, it is harmless to humans. Don, your theory of sediment/rust in the system is also likely. In oversized feeders, the water velocity is low enough that traces of rust and sediment settle out. When something causes high velocity flow, say a fire or periodic flushings, the sediment is re-suspended and tints the water reddish orange to brown. Again, it is harmless, though it looks bad. The EPA's water quality standards which every water district must adhere to, requires the water turbidity, dissolved solids, dissolved oxygen and chlorine to be continuously monitored with on-line instruments. Previously via alarming strip-chart recorders and now more commonly computerized data logging systems. In addition, manually analyzed samples must be taken several times a shift and compared to the on-line monitoring as both validation calibration. Organic matter is also analyzed during these batch samples. The permissible levels of dissolved solids (including the evil, dastardly "heavy metals") and organic matter are so low as to be silly, orders of magnitude below that which causes any harm. Anyone wondering why his water bill has skyrocketed over the past few years, well there you go. Also correct, Don, is the observation that man wasn't created and doesn't live in a vacuum. We live in a sea of organisms, only a tiny proportion of which cause us any problems. That's what our immune systems are for. I wonder if this guys who's so phobic about something brown in his water is equally phobic of actual turds in various delicacies. After all, things like shrimp, lobster and other shellfish are eaten with their digestive tracts AND their turds intact. Sterilized by cooking in some cases, others such as raw oysters, not. I've developed a theory that this guy tends to validate. My theory is that some (many?) people have a mental flaw that demands there be a certain constant level of (dis)stress in their lives. Absent real problems, they make up things and/or believe the wildly improbable. Witness the phobias about such things as individual atoms of allegedly "bad" metals, for example. Back during my childhood, typhoid outbreaks still closed public places and the disease sometimes showed up in municipal water systems. Now all those awful water-borne diseases are conquered so some people have to make up stuff to fulfill their stress quotients. The utter destruction of the educational system over the past few decades undoubtedly plays a major part. After all, when people have no real experience or education in the sciences, they tend to believe patently absurd things such as little handheld explosives blowing up entire blocks and cars always exploding into fireballs when shot. And of course, the unknown and invisible but teeming critters and substances, all conspiring to harm those who Truly Believe(TM) Americans have never had safer food and water, better medical care, safer or longer lives in the history of man and yet some people still work themselves into froths over imaginary "dangers". I think my theory is on the verge of becoming an immutable law. John On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC), (Don Klipstein) wrote: In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:17:36 -0500, Goedjn wrote:
I do still want a bio microscope though. I've been looking for an unwanted/unused one for years, but no luck to date. The ones on e-bay are to rich for my blood. Using polarized contrast-phase lighting, you can view LIVE specimines without killing them. Try American Science and Surplus (www.sciplus.com) They've got a nice-sounding 0060-1500X binocular microscope for only about $600. (there's cheaper ones too, down to about $130, but that's the nice one) Excellent Goedin. BTW, does uri.edu stand for University of Rhode Island? I attended school there at one time at the Providence, R.I. extension, and -that- is where I studied invertebrate zoology. Quite challenging and rewarding. Very challenging. But not quite as bad as "logic" class. Do you know how to read heiroglyphs? You will if you make it through "logic" class ;( Here is my choice: Microscope 90197 and if I go for the Full Monte... phase contrast enhancement kit 14385 "Somewhere, over the rainbow, Blue Birds sing...." I'm dreaming again.... I will be happy to have the 90197 by itself, but the 14385 makes it so much more useful. Lg |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote:
You're correct, of course, Don. To someone with lots of industrial water treatment experience such as myself, this guy comes across as a raving lunatic who has managed to find a water treatment glossary somewhere and is randomly picking words to use. The fact is, unless someone is ****ting in yer well, fecal matter does NOT add color to water. The dilution is simply too high. The detection method for fecal matter in water is the coliform bacteria that always accompanies it. Bacteria can be cultured until it has multiplied enough to be observable. The fecal matter itself cannot be. Moreover, if there is excess chlorine in the water, an EPA requirement, whatever is there is sterile. If any of what this lid says is true, most likely the sediment is carry-over from the floctreater. Muddy water is first treated with a floculating agent (alum is the most common) that causes the suspended matter to agglomerate into gelatinous masses that are easily removed by the subsequent sand filter. Sometimes this matter carries over during filter backflush or malfunction. Though it looks bad because it is mud-colored, it is harmless to humans. Don, your theory of sediment/rust in the system is also likely. In oversized feeders, the water velocity is low enough that traces of rust and sediment settle out. When something causes high velocity flow, say a fire or periodic flushings, the sediment is re-suspended and tints the water reddish orange to brown. Again, it is harmless, though it looks bad. The EPA's water quality standards which every water district must adhere to, requires the water turbidity, dissolved solids, dissolved oxygen and chlorine to be continuously monitored with on-line instruments. Previously via alarming strip-chart recorders and now more commonly computerized data logging systems. In addition, manually analyzed samples must be taken several times a shift and compared to the on-line monitoring as both validation calibration. Organic matter is also analyzed during these batch samples. The permissible levels of dissolved solids (including the evil, dastardly "heavy metals") and organic matter are so low as to be silly, orders of magnitude below that which causes any harm. Anyone wondering why his water bill has skyrocketed over the past few years, well there you go. Also correct, Don, is the observation that man wasn't created and doesn't live in a vacuum. We live in a sea of organisms, only a tiny proportion of which cause us any problems. That's what our immune systems are for. I wonder if this guys who's so phobic about something brown in his water is equally phobic of actual turds in various delicacies. After all, things like shrimp, lobster and other shellfish are eaten with their digestive tracts AND their turds intact. Sterilized by cooking in some cases, others such as raw oysters, not. ================================================== ========= I've developed a theory that this guy tends to validate. My theory is that some (many?) people have a mental flaw that demands there be a certain constant level of (dis)stress in their lives. Here we go with the ad hominum. Quite to be expected from the likes of Neon John. Standard operating procedure. Absent real problems, You are a *real* problem. they make up things and/or believe the wildly improbable. Witness the phobias about such things as individual atoms of allegedly "bad" metals, for example. Back during my childhood, typhoid outbreaks still closed public places and the disease sometimes showed up in municipal water systems. Now all those awful water-borne diseases are conquered so some people have to make up stuff to fulfill their stress quotients. Your argument doesn't hold water. The utter destruction of the educational system over the past few decades undoubtedly plays a major part. I'm 60 years old, and was formally educated before calculators were invented to help you add two columns of numbers. After all, when people have no real experience or education in the sciences, That's a LIE John. What are your academic credentials? Finish High School did you? I spent 5 years in college, and no they were not all in the same classroom. rest of Neon John's psychosis ignored Lg they tend to believe patently absurd things such as little handheld explosives blowing up entire blocks and cars always exploding into fireballs when shot. And of course, the unknown and invisible but teeming critters and substances, all conspiring to harm those who Truly Believe(TM) Americans have never had safer food and water, better medical care, safer or longer lives in the history of man and yet some people still work themselves into froths over imaginary "dangers". I think my theory is on the verge of becoming an immutable law. John On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC), (Don Klipstein) wrote: In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote:
All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. FACT: Many of these fish show mutations such as multiple eyes and fins where they are not supposed to be, along with cancerous tumors all over their bodies. FACT: They got this way by drinking Lake Michigan water. CONCLUSION: Neon John is full of ****, and nothing more than a rabid, foaming at the mouth denier. Lg You're correct, of course, Don. To someone with lots of industrial water treatment experience such as myself, this guy comes across as a raving lunatic who has managed to find a water treatment glossary somewhere and is randomly picking words to use. The fact is, unless someone is ****ting in yer well, fecal matter does NOT add color to water. The dilution is simply too high. The detection method for fecal matter in water is the coliform bacteria that always accompanies it. Bacteria can be cultured until it has multiplied enough to be observable. The fecal matter itself cannot be. Moreover, if there is excess chlorine in the water, an EPA requirement, whatever is there is sterile. If any of what this lid says is true, most likely the sediment is carry-over from the floctreater. Muddy water is first treated with a floculating agent (alum is the most common) that causes the suspended matter to agglomerate into gelatinous masses that are easily removed by the subsequent sand filter. Sometimes this matter carries over during filter backflush or malfunction. Though it looks bad because it is mud-colored, it is harmless to humans. Don, your theory of sediment/rust in the system is also likely. In oversized feeders, the water velocity is low enough that traces of rust and sediment settle out. When something causes high velocity flow, say a fire or periodic flushings, the sediment is re-suspended and tints the water reddish orange to brown. Again, it is harmless, though it looks bad. The EPA's water quality standards which every water district must adhere to, requires the water turbidity, dissolved solids, dissolved oxygen and chlorine to be continuously monitored with on-line instruments. Previously via alarming strip-chart recorders and now more commonly computerized data logging systems. In addition, manually analyzed samples must be taken several times a shift and compared to the on-line monitoring as both validation calibration. Organic matter is also analyzed during these batch samples. The permissible levels of dissolved solids (including the evil, dastardly "heavy metals") and organic matter are so low as to be silly, orders of magnitude below that which causes any harm. Anyone wondering why his water bill has skyrocketed over the past few years, well there you go. Also correct, Don, is the observation that man wasn't created and doesn't live in a vacuum. We live in a sea of organisms, only a tiny proportion of which cause us any problems. That's what our immune systems are for. I wonder if this guys who's so phobic about something brown in his water is equally phobic of actual turds in various delicacies. After all, things like shrimp, lobster and other shellfish are eaten with their digestive tracts AND their turds intact. Sterilized by cooking in some cases, others such as raw oysters, not. I've developed a theory that this guy tends to validate. My theory is that some (many?) people have a mental flaw that demands there be a certain constant level of (dis)stress in their lives. Absent real problems, they make up things and/or believe the wildly improbable. Witness the phobias about such things as individual atoms of allegedly "bad" metals, for example. Back during my childhood, typhoid outbreaks still closed public places and the disease sometimes showed up in municipal water systems. Now all those awful water-borne diseases are conquered so some people have to make up stuff to fulfill their stress quotients. The utter destruction of the educational system over the past few decades undoubtedly plays a major part. After all, when people have no real experience or education in the sciences, they tend to believe patently absurd things such as little handheld explosives blowing up entire blocks and cars always exploding into fireballs when shot. And of course, the unknown and invisible but teeming critters and substances, all conspiring to harm those who Truly Believe(TM) Americans have never had safer food and water, better medical care, safer or longer lives in the history of man and yet some people still work themselves into froths over imaginary "dangers". I think my theory is on the verge of becoming an immutable law. John On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC), (Don Klipstein) wrote: In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Do you suppose this guy smokes?
-----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Glickman ] Posted At: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:20 PM Posted To: fishing Conversation: Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe Subject: Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. FACT: Many of these fish show mutations such as multiple eyes and fins where they are not supposed to be, along with cancerous tumors all over their bodies. FACT: They got this way by drinking Lake Michigan water. CONCLUSION: Neon John is full of ****, and nothing more than a rabid, foaming at the mouth denier. Lg You're correct, of course, Don. To someone with lots of industrial water treatment experience such as myself, this guy comes across as a raving lunatic who has managed to find a water treatment glossary somewhere and is randomly picking words to use. The fact is, unless someone is ****ting in yer well, fecal matter does NOT add color to water. The dilution is simply too high. The detection method for fecal matter in water is the coliform bacteria that always accompanies it. Bacteria can be cultured until it has multiplied enough to be observable. The fecal matter itself cannot be. Moreover, if there is excess chlorine in the water, an EPA requirement, whatever is there is sterile. If any of what this lid says is true, most likely the sediment is carry-over from the floctreater. Muddy water is first treated with a floculating agent (alum is the most common) that causes the suspended matter to agglomerate into gelatinous masses that are easily removed by the subsequent sand filter. Sometimes this matter carries over during filter backflush or malfunction. Though it looks bad because it is mud-colored, it is harmless to humans. Don, your theory of sediment/rust in the system is also likely. In oversized feeders, the water velocity is low enough that traces of rust and sediment settle out. When something causes high velocity flow, say a fire or periodic flushings, the sediment is re-suspended and tints the water reddish orange to brown. Again, it is harmless, though it looks bad. The EPA's water quality standards which every water district must adhere to, requires the water turbidity, dissolved solids, dissolved oxygen and chlorine to be continuously monitored with on-line instruments. Previously via alarming strip-chart recorders and now more commonly computerized data logging systems. In addition, manually analyzed samples must be taken several times a shift and compared to the on-line monitoring as both validation calibration. Organic matter is also analyzed during these batch samples. The permissible levels of dissolved solids (including the evil, dastardly "heavy metals") and organic matter are so low as to be silly, orders of magnitude below that which causes any harm. Anyone wondering why his water bill has skyrocketed over the past few years, well there you go. Also correct, Don, is the observation that man wasn't created and doesn't live in a vacuum. We live in a sea of organisms, only a tiny proportion of which cause us any problems. That's what our immune systems are for. I wonder if this guys who's so phobic about something brown in his water is equally phobic of actual turds in various delicacies. After all, things like shrimp, lobster and other shellfish are eaten with their digestive tracts AND their turds intact. Sterilized by cooking in some cases, others such as raw oysters, not. I've developed a theory that this guy tends to validate. My theory is that some (many?) people have a mental flaw that demands there be a certain constant level of (dis)stress in their lives. Absent real problems, they make up things and/or believe the wildly improbable. Witness the phobias about such things as individual atoms of allegedly "bad" metals, for example. Back during my childhood, typhoid outbreaks still closed public places and the disease sometimes showed up in municipal water systems. Now all those awful water-borne diseases are conquered so some people have to make up stuff to fulfill their stress quotients. The utter destruction of the educational system over the past few decades undoubtedly plays a major part. After all, when people have no real experience or education in the sciences, they tend to believe patently absurd things such as little handheld explosives blowing up entire blocks and cars always exploding into fireballs when shot. And of course, the unknown and invisible but teeming critters and substances, all conspiring to harm those who Truly Believe(TM) Americans have never had safer food and water, better medical care, safer or longer lives in the history of man and yet some people still work themselves into froths over imaginary "dangers". I think my theory is on the verge of becoming an immutable law. John On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC), (Don Klipstein) wrote: In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Lawrence Glickman wrote in :
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. I think you better alert the commercial fishing boats about it! snip rant I decided to take a look for myself, and this is some of what I found. "Bottom trawl nets are presently used on Lakes Michigan and Superior by fewer than 10 fishing vessels operating out of a few ports along mid-Green Bay, at Two Rivers on Lake Michigan and at Duluth on Lake Superior. Trawlers usually operate in the same area over a long period of time, so they are very predictable and easy to avoid." http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/greatlakesfish/nets.html "Last winter the Department worked with commercial fishers to study incidental catch rates of lake trout in gill nets set for chubs during winter. Data were collected by Department employees riding commercial boats, with the fishers reimbursing the Department for the time and expenses of those biologists." http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/fish/lakemich/Lake%20Michigan%20Fisheries%20News%20Sept%201997.h tm "PCBs are present in some types of Lake Michigan fish at concentrations exceeding US FDA tolerances. Such elevated PCB levels have resulted in closure of some commercial fisheries and issuance of fish consumption advisories for sports fishing. PCBs contribute to reproductive problems and deformities in fish and wildlife (Mac 1988, Gilbertson, 1988)." http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/lmmb/substs.html And more on sport fishing on Lake Michigan: http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/dec04/283365.asp |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 18:18:55 -0500, Sheldon Harper
wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote in : On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. ================================================== =========== I think you better alert the commercial fishing boats about it! They are in clear violation of the Law. I think you had better alert them. I'm about 20 or 30 minutes south of the most southern part of the Lake, and live in one of the most contaminated areas. This contamination is mostly from INDUSTRIAL EFFLUENT that has been pumped into the Lake over the course of the last century by Big Business, as in USS Steel. snip rant pity...I thought it was worthy of a repost I decided to take a look for myself, and this is some of what I found. "Bottom trawl nets are presently used on Lakes Michigan and Superior by fewer than 10 fishing vessels operating out of a few ports along mid-Green Bay, at Two Rivers on Lake Michigan and at Duluth on Lake Superior. Trawlers usually operate in the same area over a long period of time, so they are very predictable and easy to avoid." http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/greatlakesfish/nets.html "Last winter the Department worked with commercial fishers to study incidental catch rates of lake trout in gill nets set for chubs during winter. Data were collected by Department employees riding commercial boats, with the fishers reimbursing the Department for the time and expenses of those biologists." http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/fish/lakemich/Lake%20Michigan%20Fisheries%20News%20Sept%201997.h tm VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV "PCBs are present in some types of Lake Michigan fish at concentrations exceeding US FDA tolerances. Such elevated PCB levels have resulted in closure of some commercial fisheries and issuance of fish consumption advisories for sports fishing. PCBs contribute to reproductive problems and deformities in fish and wildlife (Mac 1988, Gilbertson, 1988)." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is worse that the government is willing to admit to the public. Much worse. BTW, the Vermillion River, which has nothing to do with Lake Michigan, is contaminated to dangerous levels with phosphates from farm fertilizer runoff. To the point it is also unfit for human consumption. Yet Ottawa Illinois and Streator Illinois get all their drinking water from this one contaminated source. Would you use a *filter* if you lived there? Or would you just dip and drink? http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/lmmb/substs.html And more on sport fishing on Lake Michigan: http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/dec04/283365.asp |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:20:08 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. http://www.lakemichiganangler.com/ Fishing Lake Michigan provides some of the best fishing for steelhead, coho salmon, perch, chinook salmon, rainbow trout, lake trout, brown trout, smallmouth bass, largemouth bass and walleye in the Midwest. This web site contains Fishing reports, information, techniques and tips for fishing from a large or small boat, shore and the harbors, or tributary rivers and creeks. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...00000300R.html TITLE 17: CONSERVATION CHAPTER I: DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES PART 850 COMMERCIAL FISHING IN LAKE MICHIGAN SECTION 850.30 RESTRICTED COMMERCIAL FISHING AREAS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 850.30 Restricted Commercial Fishing Areas a) During the month of August, commercial gill net fishing may be undertaken anywhere in the Illinois portion of Lake Michigan outside of the 1,000 yard distance from any pier, breakwater, or similar structure, or the low water mark on the shore. From the months of September through June, inclusive, commercial fishermen must fish in water depths of at least 5 fathoms (30 feet) or deeper to minimize incidental catch of salmon and trout. b) The following described area in Lake Michigan is established as fish refuge and it shall be unlawful for any person to place any commercial fishing device in it: all waters on or adjacent to any area commonly referred to as Julian's Reef, located in a general area bounded by 42 16'00" north latitude on the north, 87 29'00" west longitude on the east, 42 11'00" north latitude on the south and 87 35'00" west longitude on the west, on U.S. lake survey navigational chart #75, edition of April 1972 (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration). c) During the months of August and September, all gill nets set in the Illinois portion of Lake Michigan in waters up to 20 fathoms (120 feet) in depth shall not be set prior to sunrise and must be removed from the water prior to sunset on the same day. d) During the month of July, all gill nets must be placed in waters greater than 20 fathoms (120 feet) in depth to minimize the incidental catch of yellow perch. (Source: Amended at 28 Ill. Reg. 4697, effective March 1, 2004) FACT: Many of these fish show mutations such as multiple eyes and fins where they are not supposed to be, along with cancerous tumors all over their bodies. FACT: They got this way by drinking Lake Michigan water. CONCLUSION: Neon John is full of ****, and nothing more than a rabid, foaming at the mouth denier. Lg |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:47:07 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 18:18:55 -0500, Sheldon Harper wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote in : On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. ================================================= ============ I think you better alert the commercial fishing boats about it! They are in clear violation of the Law. I think you had better alert them. I'm about 20 or 30 minutes south of the most southern part of the Lake, and live in one of the most contaminated areas. Perhaps you should provide a link tio this law you are referring to, and alert the Department of Natural Resources that their authority has been countermanded by some asshole on usenet. http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...00000300R.html TITLE 17: CONSERVATION CHAPTER I: DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES PART 850 COMMERCIAL FISHING IN LAKE MICHIGAN SECTION 850.30 RESTRICTED COMMERCIAL FISHING AREAS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 850.30 Restricted Commercial Fishing Areas a) During the month of August, commercial gill net fishing may be undertaken anywhere in the Illinois portion of Lake Michigan outside of the 1,000 yard distance from any pier, breakwater, or similar structure, or the low water mark on the shore. From the months of September through June, inclusive, commercial fishermen must fish in water depths of at least 5 fathoms (30 feet) or deeper to minimize incidental catch of salmon and trout. b) The following described area in Lake Michigan is established as fish refuge and it shall be unlawful for any person to place any commercial fishing device in it: all waters on or adjacent to any area commonly referred to as Julian's Reef, located in a general area bounded by 42 16'00" north latitude on the north, 87 29'00" west longitude on the east, 42 11'00" north latitude on the south and 87 35'00" west longitude on the west, on U.S. lake survey navigational chart #75, edition of April 1972 (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration). c) During the months of August and September, all gill nets set in the Illinois portion of Lake Michigan in waters up to 20 fathoms (120 feet) in depth shall not be set prior to sunrise and must be removed from the water prior to sunset on the same day. d) During the month of July, all gill nets must be placed in waters greater than 20 fathoms (120 feet) in depth to minimize the incidental catch of yellow perch. (Source: Amended at 28 Ill. Reg. 4697, effective March 1, 2004) This contamination is mostly from INDUSTRIAL EFFLUENT that has been pumped into the Lake over the course of the last century by Big Business, as in USS Steel. snip rant pity...I thought it was worthy of a repost I decided to take a look for myself, and this is some of what I found. "Bottom trawl nets are presently used on Lakes Michigan and Superior by fewer than 10 fishing vessels operating out of a few ports along mid-Green Bay, at Two Rivers on Lake Michigan and at Duluth on Lake Superior. Trawlers usually operate in the same area over a long period of time, so they are very predictable and easy to avoid." http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/greatlakesfish/nets.html "Last winter the Department worked with commercial fishers to study incidental catch rates of lake trout in gill nets set for chubs during winter. Data were collected by Department employees riding commercial boats, with the fishers reimbursing the Department for the time and expenses of those biologists." http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/fish/lakemich/Lake%20Michigan%20Fisheries%20News%20Sept%201997.h tm VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV "PCBs are present in some types of Lake Michigan fish at concentrations exceeding US FDA tolerances. Such elevated PCB levels have resulted in closure of some commercial fisheries and issuance of fish consumption advisories for sports fishing. PCBs contribute to reproductive problems and deformities in fish and wildlife (Mac 1988, Gilbertson, 1988)." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is worse that the government is willing to admit to the public. Much worse. BTW, the Vermillion River, which has nothing to do with Lake Michigan, is contaminated to dangerous levels with phosphates from farm fertilizer runoff. To the point it is also unfit for human consumption. Yet Ottawa Illinois and Streator Illinois get all their drinking water from this one contaminated source. Would you use a *filter* if you lived there? Or would you just dip and drink? http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/lmmb/substs.html And more on sport fishing on Lake Michigan: http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/dec04/283365.asp |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:20:15 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:47:07 -0600, Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 18:18:55 -0500, Sheldon Harper wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote in : On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. ================================================ ============= I think you better alert the commercial fishing boats about it! They are in clear violation of the Law. I think you had better alert them. I'm about 20 or 30 minutes south of the most southern part of the Lake, and live in one of the most contaminated areas. Perhaps you should provide a link tio this law you are referring to, and alert the Department of Natural Resources that their authority has been countermanded by some asshole on usenet. Which asshole would that be, mop boy, YOURSELF? You see, there are so many to choose from, one hardly knows where to begin. Lg http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...00000300R.html TITLE 17: CONSERVATION CHAPTER I: DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES PART 850 COMMERCIAL FISHING IN LAKE MICHIGAN SECTION 850.30 RESTRICTED COMMERCIAL FISHING AREAS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 850.30 Restricted Commercial Fishing Areas a) During the month of August, commercial gill net fishing may be undertaken anywhere in the Illinois portion of Lake Michigan outside of the 1,000 yard distance from any pier, breakwater, or similar structure, or the low water mark on the shore. From the months of September through June, inclusive, commercial fishermen must fish in water depths of at least 5 fathoms (30 feet) or deeper to minimize incidental catch of salmon and trout. b) The following described area in Lake Michigan is established as fish refuge and it shall be unlawful for any person to place any commercial fishing device in it: all waters on or adjacent to any area commonly referred to as Julian's Reef, located in a general area bounded by 42 16'00" north latitude on the north, 87 29'00" west longitude on the east, 42 11'00" north latitude on the south and 87 35'00" west longitude on the west, on U.S. lake survey navigational chart #75, edition of April 1972 (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration). c) During the months of August and September, all gill nets set in the Illinois portion of Lake Michigan in waters up to 20 fathoms (120 feet) in depth shall not be set prior to sunrise and must be removed from the water prior to sunset on the same day. d) During the month of July, all gill nets must be placed in waters greater than 20 fathoms (120 feet) in depth to minimize the incidental catch of yellow perch. (Source: Amended at 28 Ill. Reg. 4697, effective March 1, 2004) This contamination is mostly from INDUSTRIAL EFFLUENT that has been pumped into the Lake over the course of the last century by Big Business, as in USS Steel. snip rant pity...I thought it was worthy of a repost I decided to take a look for myself, and this is some of what I found. "Bottom trawl nets are presently used on Lakes Michigan and Superior by fewer than 10 fishing vessels operating out of a few ports along mid-Green Bay, at Two Rivers on Lake Michigan and at Duluth on Lake Superior. Trawlers usually operate in the same area over a long period of time, so they are very predictable and easy to avoid." http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/greatlakesfish/nets.html "Last winter the Department worked with commercial fishers to study incidental catch rates of lake trout in gill nets set for chubs during winter. Data were collected by Department employees riding commercial boats, with the fishers reimbursing the Department for the time and expenses of those biologists." http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/fish/lakemich/Lake%20Michigan%20Fisheries%20News%20Sept%201997.h tm VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV "PCBs are present in some types of Lake Michigan fish at concentrations exceeding US FDA tolerances. Such elevated PCB levels have resulted in closure of some commercial fisheries and issuance of fish consumption advisories for sports fishing. PCBs contribute to reproductive problems and deformities in fish and wildlife (Mac 1988, Gilbertson, 1988)." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is worse that the government is willing to admit to the public. Much worse. BTW, the Vermillion River, which has nothing to do with Lake Michigan, is contaminated to dangerous levels with phosphates from farm fertilizer runoff. To the point it is also unfit for human consumption. Yet Ottawa Illinois and Streator Illinois get all their drinking water from this one contaminated source. Would you use a *filter* if you lived there? Or would you just dip and drink? http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/lmmb/substs.html And more on sport fishing on Lake Michigan: http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/dec04/283365.asp |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:17:04 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:20:08 -0600, Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. http://www.lakemichiganangler.com/ Fishing Lake Michigan provides some of the best fishing for steelhead, coho salmon, perch, chinook salmon, rainbow trout, lake trout, brown trout, smallmouth bass, largemouth bass and walleye in the Midwest. This web site contains Fishing reports, information, techniques and tips for fishing from a large or small boat, shore and the harbors, or tributary rivers and creeks. http://www.great-lakes.org/marchapril.html Wisconsin Sea Grant releases Dioxin Study Normal lake trout sac fry (IMAGE) Lake trout sac fry exhibiting blue sac disease symptoms after exposure to dioxin (TCDD) in laboratory tests. Note deformed skull and excess fluid in yolk sac. Hemorrhaging is also evident as dark blotches in the fry's body. (IMAGE) The Headline read "CAUSE FOUND FOR GREAT LAKES TROUT REPRODUCTION FAILURE" leaving many confused on the issue of natural reproduction of great lakes lake trout and other salmonids A study released by Richard E. Peterson, a toxicology professor at the UW-Madison School of Pharmacy and Wisconsin Sea Grant showed data suggesting that dioxins and related chemicals may have contributed to the extinction of lake trout in Lake Ontario prior to 1960 and to the recruitment failure of stocked lake trout since then. Peterson described how dioxin contributed to survival of sac fry in early development stages, however, inconsistent with Peterson's findings, healthy lake trout fry have been collected in Lake Michigan, and other great lakes, from time to time for nearly twenty years. EPA Pressuring Michigan on Fish Advisories michigan Despite EPA's threats to release it's own advisory, Michigan stands behind Science Boards findings. Based on the results of its review of the available information, the MESB Panel concludes that the data presented by the ATSDR and USEPA do not alter the original findings or conclusions presented in September 1995 by the MESB - CGLG Special Fish Advisory Panel. In particular, the recently published Jacobson and Jacobson (1996) data, which indicates that the fetus is more susceptible than adults to potential harm from fish consumption. Editor's note: THAT'S =HUMAN= FETUS IS MORE SUSCEPTIBLE THAN ADULTS TO POTENTIAL HARM FROM FISH CONSUMPTION. http://www.great-lakes.org/marchapril.html ================================================== =================== HAVE A LOOK AT THIS: http://biology.usgs.gov/s+t/imagefiles/m2131f07.htm Reproductive problems, tumors, and other deformities are still being detected in certain fish and wildlife populations in most of the Great Lakes. Similarly, consumption advisories recommending restrictions on eating certain species and sizes of Great Lakes fish still remain. The United States and Canada have agreed upon a virtual elimination policy for toxic contaminants under the auspices of the Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement. Remedial action plans are being developed by federal and state agencies in cooperation with local municipalities and local citizens to eliminate beneficial use impairments in the most contaminated rivers, harbors, and bays in the Great Lakes. Continued long-term monitoring of contamination in fish is required to determine the success of these programs and to guide where further corrective actions may be necessary. http://biology.usgs.gov/s+t/noframe/m2131.htm SMOKE THAT DICKWEED |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:02:20 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
wrote: Which asshole would that be, mop boy, YOURSELF? You see, there are so many to choose from, one hardly knows where to begin. Lg You are the only one claiming that it's illegal to fish commercially in Lake Michigan - I just provided the cite that proved you wrong. |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 05:57:16 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:02:20 -0600, Lawrence Glickman wrote: Which asshole would that be, mop boy, YOURSELF? You see, there are so many to choose from, one hardly knows where to begin. Lg You are the only one claiming that it's illegal to fish commercially in Lake Michigan - I just provided the cite that proved you wrong. There was a ban on this at one time; I was unaware that it had been _partially_ rescinded. There are still areas of contamination. Look at the title of the thread. Lg |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 01:35:35 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:16:51 -0600, Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 05:57:16 GMT, Bob Ward wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:02:20 -0600, Lawrence Glickman wrote: Which asshole would that be, mop boy, YOURSELF? You see, there are so many to choose from, one hardly knows where to begin. Lg You are the only one claiming that it's illegal to fish commercially in Lake Michigan - I just provided the cite that proved you wrong. There was a ban on this at one time; I was unaware that it had been _partially_ rescinded. There are still areas of contamination. Look at the title of the thread. Lg Face it - you were wrong, I called you on it, and you resorted to calling me namers ratgher than researching your claims before posting. **** off, troll-boy. Eat **** and die, pedophile. |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 01:35:35 GMT, Bob Ward wrote:
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:16:51 -0600, Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 05:57:16 GMT, Bob Ward wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:02:20 -0600, Lawrence Glickman wrote: Which asshole would that be, mop boy, YOURSELF? You see, there are so many to choose from, one hardly knows where to begin. Lg You are the only one claiming that it's illegal to fish commercially in Lake Michigan - I just provided the cite that proved you wrong. There was a ban on this at one time; I was unaware that it had been _partially_ rescinded. There are still areas of contamination. Look at the title of the thread. Lg Face it - you were wrong, I called you on it, and you resorted to calling me namers ratgher than researching your claims before posting. **** off, troll-boy. Eat **** and die, pedophile. The links I posted are VALID. Your bull**** is just that; government de-regulation allowing Big Business to precede with their contamination, at a price you and I and everyone else is going to pay for with shortened lives. I hope you die soon of a brain tumor. Eat more fish. Especially the fatty parts of them in the lower belly area. Prove what a girly fag you really are. The Poison Pit known as the public water supply has already started wasting your brain. It is obvious to anyone who reads your ****. Why don't you provide a public service and slit your wrists. Lg |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Having helped care for two different relatives who died from Alzheimer's Disease, it is easy for me to recognize the symptoms such as you are displaying here. I sincerely feel sympathy for you, Lawrence. Though you were probably a nasty old fool before your brain started going and not someone I'd want to associate with, I'd not wish this on anyone, even my worst enemy. Yours is obviously in the early stage since you can still type and spell but you are losing the ability to think rational thoughts and your self-control is slipping which means that something needs to be done immediately. Letting vulgarities fly in public places is a classic early sign. There are some really good drugs now that help postpone the onset of symptoms and in some cases, roll them back. I urge you to show this post to your kids or whomever is your caregiver so that they can appreciate your condition and seek out appropriate treatment. With proper treatment you can enjoy a few more years of lucidity. I also suggest that they cut off your posting privileges so that you won't further sully your public reputation. It'd be a shame for your grandkids to plug your name into Google and have to read the kind of stuff you're writing now. Most people idolize their grandparents. What a tragedy to have that bubble burst for your grandkids. To others he please don't tease this fellow or bait him on. It's like poking a caged animal with a stick. It's just not nice. John On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:55:02 -0600, Lawrence Glickman wrote: Eat **** and die, pedophile. The links I posted are VALID. Your bull**** is just that; government de-regulation allowing Big Business to precede with their contamination, at a price you and I and everyone else is going to pay for with shortened lives. I hope you die soon of a brain tumor. Eat more fish. Especially the fatty parts of them in the lower belly area. Prove what a girly fag you really are. The Poison Pit known as the public water supply has already started wasting your brain. It is obvious to anyone who reads your ****. Why don't you provide a public service and slit your wrists. --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:18:35 -0500, Neon John wrote:
Having helped care for two different relatives who died from Alzheimer's Disease, it is easy for me to recognize the symptoms such as you are displaying here. I sincerely feel sympathy for you, Lawrence. Save it for yourself, you ****ing retard. BTW, are you ready to come clean on why your wife walked out on you? Though you were probably a nasty old fool before your brain started going and not someone I'd want to associate with, I'd not wish this on anyone, even my worst enemy. Yours is obviously in the early stage since you can still type and spell but you are losing the ability to think rational thoughts and your self-control is slipping which means that something needs to be done immediately. Letting vulgarities fly in public places is a classic early sign. Do you speak from experience? There are some really good drugs now that help postpone the onset of symptoms and in some cases, roll them back. I urge you to show this post to your kids or whomever is your caregiver so that they can appreciate your condition and seek out appropriate treatment. With proper treatment you can enjoy a few more years of lucidity. Speaking from experience? I also suggest that they cut off your posting privileges so that you won't further sully your public reputation. It'd be a shame for your grandkids to plug your name into Google and have to read the kind of stuff you're writing now. Most people idolize their grandparents. What a tragedy to have that bubble burst for your grandkids. I don't have any grandkids. Shows what you -don't- know, nitwit. BTW, if you're such a perfect example of the perfect citizen, WHY did your wife leave you for another man...or was it another woman? To others he please don't tease this fellow or bait him on. It's like poking a caged animal with a stick. It's just not nice. John Drink some water. In fact, stick your head in a bucket of it. Lg On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:55:02 -0600, Lawrence Glickman wrote: Eat **** and die, pedophile. The links I posted are VALID. Your bull**** is just that; government de-regulation allowing Big Business to precede with their contamination, at a price you and I and everyone else is going to pay for with shortened lives. I hope you die soon of a brain tumor. Eat more fish. Especially the fatty parts of them in the lower belly area. Prove what a girly fag you really are. The Poison Pit known as the public water supply has already started wasting your brain. It is obvious to anyone who reads your ****. Why don't you provide a public service and slit your wrists. --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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