Channel Hopper
 

Here's some evolving new hopper technology.
Ultra-lightweight closed cell foam is easy enough to find
in gray, but tan colored foam is elusive. Rainey's sells a nice tan
(hopper colored) Evazote foam, but it's so dense and
heavy it barely floats. Extra-lightweight foam makes
a big difference.

http://montana-riverboats.com/static...el_Hopper.html

Channel Hopper
 

"Salmo Bytes" wrote

so dense and
heavy it barely floats.


Couldn't you be describing a natural hopper with that? Sorta just kidding,
but I do "think" ( damned if I can find one in the back yard right now to
test in a glass of water ;-) that real hoppers float pretty damn low in the
water

As always, an interesting tie ... oh, and I checked a couple "big city"
craft and hobby stores but chocolate open cell foam was not to be found ...
:-((

Channel Hopper
 

"Larry L" wrote in message ...


Couldn't you be describing a natural hopper with that? Sorta just kidding,
but I do "think" ( damned if I can find one in the back yard right now to
test in a glass of water ;-) that real hoppers float pretty damn low in the
water

True (real hoppers float low).
But the better a foam hopper floats, the heavier
the nymph you can drag off the rear end of the hopper.

With a lightweight foam hopper, you can mend the line
hard (while dragging a heavy nymph)--which sinks the
hopper mommentarily. But then up pops the hopper again:
right on top, even in fast water.

On the Madison above Ennis (in Montana), you can drag a
weighted Woolly Bugger underneath the hopper, while fishing
the fast, deep water in the middle of the river...which is
(on that river anyway) where all the good fish are. If you try
to do that with a deer hair hopper (or even one made with
dense, heavy foam) it just doesn't work.

Channel Hopper
 

"Salmo Bytes" wrote

But the better a foam hopper floats, the heavier
the nymph you can drag off the rear end of the hopper.



I've seen the advice to fish a "hopper and dropper" and wondered about that.
I don't nymph a lot but I've found that when I use a "dry and dropper" that
I nearly always catch only on the nymph. It has been my impression that
this was less because the nymph is more attractive than because the dry
suffers badly, in presentation, because it's movement is impeded by the
nymph ( and as you say from mending for the nymphs sake )

Which leads to a ??? Do you catch many fish on the HopperHalf of
Hopper&Dropper? ... if not, why not just use a yarn indicator and focus on
nymphing? What is the gain? certainly a hank of yarn takes less tying time
than a HopperG

Channel Hopper
 

Larry L wrote:

"Salmo Bytes" wrote


But the better a foam hopper floats, the heavier
the nymph you can drag off the rear end of the hopper.




I've seen the advice to fish a "hopper and dropper" and wondered about that.
I don't nymph a lot but I've found that when I use a "dry and dropper" that
I nearly always catch only on the nymph. It has been my impression that
this was less because the nymph is more attractive than because the dry
suffers badly, in presentation, because it's movement is impeded by the
nymph ( and as you say from mending for the nymphs sake )

Which leads to a ??? Do you catch many fish on the HopperHalf of
Hopper&Dropper? ... if not, why not just use a yarn indicator and focus on
nymphing? What is the gain? certainly a hank of yarn takes less tying time
than a HopperG


I fish dries with a dropper pretty often. Most often with emerger
patterns or soft hackles as the dropper. Overall, I'd say the ratio
would be 70/30, with 30 being the dry.

If I'm going to fish a deep nymph, I usually use an indicator instead.
There are some exceptions, like today. My home river is VERY low right
now and as clear as it gets. I found a small pod of fish feeding on
midges (I'm pretty sure) about three feet down in water about eight feet
deep. I put on a tiny foam indicator, about half the size of the stick
on ones and put on a small midge pupa about four feet below. On my first
cast, as the indicator passed over the fish they dropped back about six
feet and sunk to the bottom. They got alerted but not totally spooked as
they continued to feed, now along the bottom. I think I would have had
a good chance on those fish in the pool if I has used a dry instead of a
foam indicator or if I had added weight and moved up the indicator so I
could fish the bottom. They were more secure down on the bottom of the
deep water and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have reacted to the
indicator passing overhead.

But I took off the indicator, tied on a size 14 Klinkenhammer
with the midge pupa on a dropper. I moved upstream and fished to another
fish feeding in slightly shallower water and caught it.

As I fished up beyond the head of the pool, the the water quickly
changes into a short section of pocket water. I fished up through it
with the dry and dropper with no interest. The pocket water gave out and
I came to a long stretch of "dead" water at these flows. I only had a
short time to be out and didn't have time to hike up to the next likely
area, so I decided to fish down through the pocket water back to the van
using one of my favorite methods, skittering the dry and dropper through
the pockets. I thought it would just be fun to fish that way not
expecting to catch anything Generally this technique works best when
Caddis are active and these fish haven't seen an insect bigger
than a size twenty since the beginning of November. I didn't change
rigs, just used the Klinkenhammer with the midge dropper. Third cast a
Brown nailed the dry as it skittered through an eddy. I got two more
fish and three more strikes all on the Klinkenhammer, in that 100
foot section of pocket water. Pretty interesting to me that fish were so
responsive to a moving fly that was so much bigger than anything they'd
seen in a long time.

Willi

Channel Hopper
 

"Willi" wrote

.. On my first
cast, as the indicator passed over the fish they dropped back about six
feet and sunk to the bottom. They got alerted but not totally spooked as
they continued to feed, now along the bottom.

That is the type situation where I normally use a dry as a "bobber" I
like to fish the Big Lost when the water is down about August, for instance,
and the fish sit in very shallow water. I've found a foam Carpenter ant
with a tiny Copper John or some other similar combo works better than the
same nymph and an indicator, by far. Sometimes a fish will take the ant or
beatle, but mostly it just suspends the nymph and makes detection easier.

BTW, you've got me interested with all your skitter talkG I've even tied
up some Hewitt skaters ...where's the Crane Flies when ya need em?

The Brachye ..a .. i .. .... um ..you know, the Mom's day caddis, starts
real soon on the Lower Sac and I plan 4 or 5 mid-week days up there.
Mostly it's dredged, but I plan to at least try skittering a EHC in some
likely places, thanks to your prompting.

Channel Hopper
 

Larry L wrote:

"Willi" wrote

. On my first

cast, as the indicator passed over the fish they dropped back about six
feet and sunk to the bottom. They got alerted but not totally spooked as
they continued to feed, now along the bottom.


That is the type situation where I normally use a dry as a "bobber" I
like to fish the Big Lost when the water is down about August, for instance,
and the fish sit in very shallow water. I've found a foam Carpenter ant
with a tiny Copper John or some other similar combo works better than the
same nymph and an indicator, by far. Sometimes a fish will take the ant or
beatle, but mostly it just suspends the nymph and makes detection easier.

BTW, you've got me interested with all your skitter talkG I've even tied
up some Hewitt skaters ...where's the Crane Flies when ya need em?

Although any dry pattern will work (I've even caught fish skittering
nymphs along the top) the pattern I use is a modified St Vrain Caddis. I
hackle it with about eight to ten wraps of hackle using hackle that is
undersized so the hackles tips are just barely more than the hook gap. I
tie the elk hair wing longer and slightly less dense than normal. The
length of the tail extends approximately one hook shank length beyond
the bend of the hook. This makes for a fly that really bounces around on
the surface.


The Brachye ..a .. i .. .... um ..you know, the Mom's day caddis, starts
real soon on the Lower Sac and I plan 4 or 5 mid-week days up there.
Mostly it's dredged, but I plan to at least try skittering a EHC in some
likely places, thanks to your prompting.




Try it at the heads of pools and in the pocket water above. These are
the place where the fish move to aggressively feed and this action is
often needed to get their attention. I suggest using a soft hackle
dropper of about 18" to 2 feet below the dry. You'll get fish on both
the dry and the dropper and the dropper will serve as an "anchor" which
will help you bounce the dry along the surface. Don't be reluctant to
fish the combo with LOTS of action in pocket water. Across current
action usually works best but experiment. Be prepared to miss a bunch of
fish. Sometimes a dead drift through the area where you got a miss will
get you a hookup. A wet fly swing while holding most of the line off the
water is also a technique that works.

Success with it yesterday shows that I still need to learn when it will
work! Nothing I had learned about it in the past would make me think
that it would have worked.

Some of the things I have learned:

Works most consistently in pocket water

Something I almost always try when there are Caddis or Stoneflies
around, even on flat water but on flat water I will use less action

It will bring up fish during the doldrums of Summer when nothing else will.

It is more effective on some rivers than on others. There's nothing I've
observed that explains this.

Often works in heavily fished waters. I think that's because it shows
the fish something they haven't seen.

Willi

Channel Hopper
 

On 3/20/04 11:23 AM, in article ,
"Willi" wrote:

Larry L wrote:

BTW, you've got me interested with all your skitter talkG I've even tied
up some Hewitt skaters ...where's the Crane Flies when ya need em?

Although any dry pattern will work (I've even caught fish skittering
nymphs along the top) the pattern I use is a modified St Vrain Caddis. I
hackle it with about eight to ten wraps of hackle using hackle that is
undersized so the hackles tips are just barely more than the hook gap. I
tie the elk hair wing longer and slightly less dense than normal. The
length of the tail extends approximately one hook shank length beyond
the bend of the hook. This makes for a fly that really bounces around on
the surface.

After hearing your suggestions for skittering, I've tried the technique on
PA browns, with that same St. Vrain caddis. I've had them actually *chase*
the fly for three or four feet trying to get it!

Bill

Channel Hopper
 

William Claspy wrote:

On 3/20/04 11:23 AM, in article ,
"Willi" wrote:


Larry L wrote:


BTW, you've got me interested with all your skitter talkG I've even tied
up some Hewitt skaters ...where's the Crane Flies when ya need em?

Although any dry pattern will work (I've even caught fish skittering
nymphs along the top) the pattern I use is a modified St Vrain Caddis. I
hackle it with about eight to ten wraps of hackle using hackle that is
undersized so the hackles tips are just barely more than the hook gap. I
tie the elk hair wing longer and slightly less dense than normal. The
length of the tail extends approximately one hook shank length beyond
the bend of the hook. This makes for a fly that really bounces around on
the surface.


After hearing your suggestions for skittering, I've tried the technique on
PA browns, with that same St. Vrain caddis. I've had them actually *chase*
the fly for three or four feet trying to get it!


Cool! I'm glad to hear someone else having some success with it. It's a
fun technique. Interesting to do and the strikes are very exciting. With
all the emphasis places on dead drifting in the literature, it's hard to
remember that the insects we're imitating are alive and do move!


Willi