The area I live in does not have a flyshop within an hour drive. After
gas or shipping charges from mail order (not to mention the wait)
floatant ends up costing twice as much, but
more than that it is just becoming a pain in the butt.
This leads me to my question.
Does anybody know how I can make my own floatant? Something I can
pick-up at the hardware store or grocery store prehaps?
What did the "old timers" use as floatant in the days before LL Bean?

Thanks

(new to group, so if this is a beaten horse..... Sorry)

Goat wrote:
> The area I live in does not have a flyshop within an hour drive. After
> gas or shipping charges from mail order (not to mention the wait)
> floatant ends up costing twice as much, but
> more than that it is just becoming a pain in the butt.
> This leads me to my question.
> Does anybody know how I can make my own floatant? Something I can
> pick-up at the hardware store or grocery store prehaps?
> What did the "old timers" use as floatant in the days before LL Bean?
>
> Thanks
>
> (new to group, so if this is a beaten horse..... Sorry)

Making floatant yourself is a waste of time. Albolene (a skin
moisturizing cleanser, available in any large drugstore) is the same as
Gink-like floatants, at a tiny fraction of the cost. Frog's Fanny-type
dessicant is the same as some stuff used in fiberglass fabrication, but
I don't remember what it's called because Willi gave me 10-year supply.
It's REALLY cheap. Snoop?

The next time you're in the big city you can buy a lifetime's supply of
each for maybe $20.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

>From: rw

>Frog's Fanny-type
>dessicant is the same as some stuff used in fiberglass fabrication, but
>I don't remember what it's called because Willi gave me 10-year supply.

Cab-o-Sil. Fumed silica. Available from aircraft and boat supply houses. Got
mine from an outfit called Spruce Aircraft, IIRC.
Cost is about 12 bucks a gallon, which should be a lifetime supply.

As rw said, Albolene is available at nearly all drug stores for about 12 bucks
for a large jar, so for 25 bucks you can outfit yourself with a lifetime supply
of floatants.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

Another possiblilty is "Hydostop". this is a liquid that you immerse your
fly in for 5 minutes, and let it dy overnight. You can make your own by
dissolving some candle wax in lighter fluid. It doesn't take much was. If
you get too much, the fly will be sticky. Just add move lighter fluid to
thin

--


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"Goat" > wrote in message
...
> The area I live in does not have a flyshop within an hour drive. After
> gas or shipping charges from mail order (not to mention the wait)
> floatant ends up costing twice as much, but
> more than that it is just becoming a pain in the butt.
> This leads me to my question.
> Does anybody know how I can make my own floatant? Something I can
> pick-up at the hardware store or grocery store prehaps?
> What did the "old timers" use as floatant in the days before LL Bean?
>
> Thanks
>
> (new to group, so if this is a beaten horse..... Sorry)

On 21 Aug 2004 17:02:36 GMT, (George Adams)
wrote:

>>From: rw
>
>>Frog's Fanny-type
>>dessicant is the same as some stuff used in fiberglass fabrication, but
>>I don't remember what it's called because Willi gave me 10-year supply.
>
>Cab-o-Sil. Fumed silica. Available from aircraft and boat supply houses. Got
>mine from an outfit called Spruce Aircraft, IIRC.
>Cost is about 12 bucks a gallon, which should be a lifetime supply.
>
>As rw said, Albolene is available at nearly all drug stores for about 12 bucks
>for a large jar, so for 25 bucks you can outfit yourself with a lifetime supply
>of floatants.

And since you'll need something to carry it in astream (well, unless
you're going to try to reverse the minimalist thang and carry the whole
bottle of Albolene), might I suggest a bottle of Gink, direct from the
source, if it is still available that way (the site is, or was, still
up). And before anyone has apoplexy (well, Ken and Mark, go ahead...),
here's how I figure it:

George (Gehrke, not Adams) was, well, Ginkles, but all the same, he was
a ROFFian, and he may have been a lot of things, but he wasn't a
quitter, and he sure as hell was a part of FFing history. And truth be
told, as I've said before, I kinda miss the crazy old son of a bitch -
sort of ROFF's own G. L. Herter-meets-H.L. Meinken-meets-Bulwinkle J.
Moose.

But that said, I have no idea if Gladys _needs_ the money (it's none of
my business either way), but I can't imagine it would hurt her, and from
all accounts, she is a nice lady. And if you are among those inclined
to think George really was all that bad, then think of it as her
deserving some business for having had to put up with him (I don't
subscribe to that, but...).

As always, YMMV...

TC,
R

wrote:

> On 21 Aug 2004 17:02:36 GMT, (George Adams)
> wrote:

> And since you'll need something to carry it in astream (well, unless
> you're going to try to reverse the minimalist thang and carry the whole
> bottle of Albolene), might I suggest a bottle of Gink, direct from the
> source, if it is still available that way (the site is, or was, still
> up). And before anyone has apoplexy (well, Ken and Mark, go ahead...),
> here's how I figure it:
>
> George (Gehrke, not Adams) was, well, Ginkles, but all the same, he was
> a ROFFian, and he may have been a lot of things, but he wasn't a
> quitter, and he sure as hell was a part of FFing history. And truth be
> told, as I've said before, I kinda miss the crazy old son of a bitch -
> sort of ROFF's own G. L. Herter-meets-H.L. Meinken-meets-Bulwinkle J.
> Moose.

I posted one time that some of George's bombastic posts reminded me of
an old Herter's catalog. When I met George, he remarked to me that he
was surprised that I saw that. It turned out that Herter was George's
childhood "hero" and George strove to base his advertising and
salesmanship from Herter's writings.

>
> But that said, I have no idea if Gladys _needs_ the money (it's none of
> my business either way), but I can't imagine it would hurt her, and from
> all accounts, she is a nice lady. And if you are among those inclined
> to think George really was all that bad, then think of it as her
> deserving some business for having had to put up with him (I don't
> subscribe to that, but...).

Still use Gink. Haven't found anything better.

Willi

"George Adams" > wrote in

> Cab-o-Sil. Fumed silica. Available from aircraft and boat supply houses.
Got
> mine from an outfit called Spruce Aircraft, IIRC.
> Cost is about 12 bucks a gallon, which should be a lifetime supply.


I'm not convinced that fumed silica, as sold for thickening resins, IS the
same as Frog's Fanny. I bought some from West Marine ( not "cab-o-sil"
brand, but fumed silica sold for same market) and it DOES look just like
Frog's Fanny, and DOES dry a fly just like Frog's Fanny.

BUT, that fly does NOT stay dry nearly as well as with Frog's Fanny.
Someone here on ROFF has said that Frog's Fanny (hereafter referred to as FF
:) is "just a desiccant, not a fly floatant" That is not consistent with
my experience OR the FF label/marketing packaging which clearly promotes
FF's ability to repel water and thus trap air around the fly for nymphing
use.

Indeed, a desiccant absorbs water by definition and any left on the fly (
that white look) would quickly attract water and sink the fly. That is
exactly what I find happens with fumed silica. But NOT what I find with FF,
with it I seldom have a sinking fly until the next fish slimes it.

I carried two bottles this summer for over a month, one "real" FF, the other
a FF bottle filled with fumed silica. I make no claims of good science but
I did try to be random in which I used, honest in my evaluation of the
results. I ended up putting the fumed silica in my shop with the
fiberglass supplies and I now carry nothing but store bought FF. BTW, the
difference between the two is least obvious with CDC where "desiccant" is
the real need, but far more so with other types of materials that need to
not only be dry but need help repelling water to float for long. I'm cheap
and would love to avoid the high price of FF which I also love, but fumed
silica, as I tried it, is not the answer.

YMMV and all other disclaimers apply and, again, "Cab-O-Sil" is not the
brand of fumed silica I tried.

>Still use Gink. Haven't found anything better.
>

After George died, I threw away my "No Gink" hat and bought a couple of
bottles. I'm sure Gladys can use the business.

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:37:50 GMT, "Larry L"
> wrote:

>
>"George Adams" > wrote in
>
>> Cab-o-Sil. Fumed silica. Available from aircraft and boat supply houses.
>Got
>> mine from an outfit called Spruce Aircraft, IIRC.
>> Cost is about 12 bucks a gallon, which should be a lifetime supply.
>
>
>I'm not convinced that fumed silica, as sold for thickening resins, IS the
>same as Frog's Fanny.

I thought Frog's Fanny was similar to _hydrophobic_ (treated, oiled,
siliconed, etc.) fumed silica, not regular untreated. I have no idea
which "Cab-o-Sil" is being discussed, so ???. Then there are the toner
product-related types, too. IAC, unless you have the right/same fumed
silica, your mileage WILL vary.

Do a googling on "cabot degussa silica" and you'll probably find enough
to bore you to tears.

HTH,
R

>From: "Larry L"

>BUT, that fly does NOT stay dry nearly as well as with Frog's Fanny.

I have used FF and Cab -o- Sil side by side all this season, and see no
difference in performance betewwen the two.>Indeed, a desiccant absorbs water
by definition and any left on the fly (
>that white look) would quickly attract water and sink the fly. That is
>exactly what I find happens with fumed silica. But NOT what I find with FF,

I notice that both leave a white powdery residue on the fly, and several FF
users commented on this in previous posts here. I believe that the first false
cast removes most of the residue.

>with it I seldom have a sinking fly until the next fish slimes it.

Same experience here with both, and with the exception of CDC and ostrich herl,
a fly treated with Aab -O- Sil or FF need only be "cleaned" by slapping it on
the water and dried by false casting to restore it to good floating condition.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

George Adams wrote:


>Cab-o-Sil. Fumed silica. Available from aircraft and boat supply houses. Got
>mine from an outfit called Spruce Aircraft, IIRC.
>Cost is about 12 bucks a gallon, which should be a lifetime supply.
>
>As rw said, Albolene is available at nearly all drug stores for about 12 bucks
>for a large jar, so for 25 bucks you can outfit yourself with a lifetime supply
>of floatants.
>
>
>George Adams
>
>"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
>youth that doth not grow stale with age."
> ---- J.W Muller

Great info and thanks.

Albolene ? who'd a thunk it. This is great for me and no problem to
get. My wife is a Pharmacy Tech. and even gets a discount, and I don't
even have to get off my butt to get it myself, so...win / win I will
surely give it a try.
Now the Cab-o-Sil is not quite so easy to get but I will give it a try
as well. Found some online for $5.20 for 1 gal. The Cab-o-Sil is a
powder correct? Does it protect againt the water saturating the fly or
does it just dry out the flies fibers (or both)

On 21 Aug 2004 21:28:07 GMT, (George Adams)
wrote:


>
>I have used FF and Cab -o- Sil side by side all this season...

WHICH Cab-O-Sil? Do you have the container? What does it say?

> wrote in message

> I thought Frog's Fanny was similar to _hydrophobic_ (treated, oiled,
> siliconed, etc.) fumed silica, not regular untreated. I have no idea
> which "Cab-o-Sil" is being discussed, so ???. Then there are the toner
> product-related types, too. IAC, unless you have the right/same fumed
> silica, your mileage WILL vary.
>


VERY interesting ... I found a few websites, back when when FF sub was a
topic here, for Cab-O-Sil and read the info about uses etc. I called
around and could not find C-O-S anywhere in this area but did find the
product I bought that listed similar uses and looked right.

a TREATED version of what I bought would be FF, I do believe

I will have to investigate further

Thanks

"George Adams" > wrote

> I have used FF and Cab -o- Sil side by side all this season, and see no
> difference in performance betewwen the two.>

I'd be interested in very specific ordering info ... where, part number,
listed additives, etc

I don't doubt that what you and Willi have works as well as FF, but I know
that just "fumed silica" isn't enough information to guarantee satisfaction

I'd like to try exactly what you are using and bet I'd be pleased.

"George Adams" > wrote

> I have used FF and Cab -o- Sil side by side all this season, and see no
> difference in performance betewwen the two.>

I'd be interested in very specific ordering info ... where, part number,
listed additives, etc

I don't doubt that what you and Willi have works as well as FF, but I know
that just "fumed silica" isn't enough information to guarantee satisfaction

I'd like to try exactly what you are using and bet I'd be pleased.

>From:

>
>WHICH Cab-O-Sil? Do you have the container? What does it say?

Because I didn't think I'd ever need more, I discarded what little information
I had. I can tell you the following:

I ordered from an outfit called Spruce Aircraft from their online catalog.
IIRC, I had to do a search function as Cab -o- Sil wasn't listed. I think
Spruce is in CA. I found them via an internet search .

The only container was a plastic bag with a twist tie. No info in it or on it.
I seem to recall that Cab -o- Sil was described in their online catalog simply
as "fumed silica".


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

>From: "Larry L"

>I'd be interested in very specific ordering info ... where, part number,
>listed additives, etc

Larry, see my reply to R. Dean. Unfortunately, other than the source, I have
very little info, and it is unlikely that Spruce Aircraft would know how Cab
-o- Sil compares to Frog's Fanny.

I got the Cab -o- Sil name from a thread on ROFF sometime late last year, and
simply Googled the name, and came up with Spruce Aircraft as the most likely
source.
If you looked in the archives under Frog's Fanny, Cab o- Sil, or fumed silica,
you might find more info.



George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

>From: (Goat)

>Now the Cab-o-Sil is not quite so easy to get but I will give it a try
>as well. Found some online for $5.20 for 1 gal. The Cab-o-Sil is a
>powder correct? Does it protect againt the water saturating the fly or
>does it just dry out the flies fibers (or both)

There may be more than one type of Cab -o- Sil. (see Larry L's posts on this
thread) The one I purchased was from Spruce Aircraft, and I think it was more
expensive, but I might be including shipping charges. My memory ain't what it
used to was, and I discarded all the info I had long ago.

In my experience, it dries out the fibers, and also acts as a floatant, but
it's main advantage is as a super dessicant that will dry out delicate fibers
like CDC and ostrich herl. The trick is to work it into the fibers completely
with a brush. You may want to consider purchasing one container of FF to get
the supplied brush.

As rw and Dave L mentioned, you may also need a suitable container for the
Albolene. It wouldn't hurt to buy a bottle of Gink and refill it as needed. As
an aside, I was just looking at a Fly Fisherman magazine from the early
seventies that showed Gink being sold in a small wide mouth jar.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

George, could this be the stuff / site you are refering to? Sounds the
same, bag and all. $5.20
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/cabosil.php


>George Adams wrote:

>>From: "Larry L"
>
>>I'd be interested in very specific ordering info ... where, part number,
>>listed additives, etc
>
>Larry, see my reply to R. Dean. Unfortunately, other than the source, I have
>very little info, and it is unlikely that Spruce Aircraft would know how Cab
>-o- Sil compares to Frog's Fanny.
>
>I got the Cab -o- Sil name from a thread on ROFF sometime late last year, and
>simply Googled the name, and came up with Spruce Aircraft as the most likely
>source.
>If you looked in the archives under Frog's Fanny, Cab o- Sil, or fumed silica,
>you might find more info.
>
>
>
>George Adams
>
>"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
>youth that doth not grow stale with age."
> ---- J.W Muller
>

George, could this be the stuff / site you are refering to? Sounds the
same, bag and all. $5.20
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/cabosil.php


>George Adams wrote:

>>From: "Larry L"
>
>>I'd be interested in very specific ordering info ... where, part number,
>>listed additives, etc
>
>Larry, see my reply to R. Dean. Unfortunately, other than the source, I have
>very little info, and it is unlikely that Spruce Aircraft would know how Cab
>-o- Sil compares to Frog's Fanny.
>
>I got the Cab -o- Sil name from a thread on ROFF sometime late last year, and
>simply Googled the name, and came up with Spruce Aircraft as the most likely
>source.
>If you looked in the archives under Frog's Fanny, Cab o- Sil, or fumed silica,
>you might find more info.
>
>
>
>George Adams
>
>"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
>youth that doth not grow stale with age."
> ---- J.W Muller
>

"Goat" > wrote

> George, could this be the stuff / site you are refering to? Sounds the
> same, bag and all. $5.20
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/cabosil.php
>
>


for $5 I'm going to try it ... that was one site I remember from when I was
looking the first time. I didn't want to get it online if I could find it
local, at that time.

"George Adams" > wrote in message
...
> >From: (Goat)
>
> >Now the Cab-o-Sil is not quite so easy to get but I will give it a try
> >as well. Found some online for $5.20 for 1 gal. The Cab-o-Sil is a
> >powder correct? Does it protect againt the water saturating the fly or
> >does it just dry out the flies fibers (or both)
>
> There may be more than one type of Cab -o- Sil. (see Larry L's posts on
this
> thread) The one I purchased was from Spruce Aircraft, and I think it was
more
> expensive, but I might be including shipping charges. My memory ain't what
it
> used to was, and I discarded all the info I had long ago.
>
> In my experience, it dries out the fibers, and also acts as a floatant,
but
> it's main advantage is as a super dessicant that will dry out delicate
fibers
> like CDC and ostrich herl. The trick is to work it into the fibers
completely
> with a brush. You may want to consider purchasing one container of FF to
get
> the supplied brush.
...

I just did a little experiment.

I put about half an ounce of water in a glass pinch bowl and then added a
pinch of Frog's Fanny. The FF floated in clumps of various small sizes.
After stirring vigorously for a couple of minutes, all of the FF was still
floating. Twenty minutes later, all of it is still floating.....or, at
least apparently so. None is visible below the surface. Without chemical
analysis, it's impossible to tell whether or not any has dissolved.......but
I don't think it has. What does this mean? Well, it looks like FF is not a
desiccant, at least in the sense that silica gel or clay (two of the most
widely used desiccants) are. Both clay and silica gel work by absorption.
They are both porous and hydrophilic. That is to say, they readily form
loose bonds with water molecules and have a large available surface area
with which to form many such bonds......they hold a LOT of water. Drop
either of them in water and, even if ground exceedingly fine (like FF) and
they will sink because both are heavier than water AND their hydrophilic
character allows them, even in very small pieces, to break the surface
tension......they sink

FF seems to work by aDsorption, as opposed to aBsorption. Adsorption is
purely a surface phenomenon. FF works because water clings to the surface
and then is brushed off with the excess FF. Drop a saturated fly in a
bottle of FF and you will pull out a saturated fly covered in FF.

Bottom line.......Frog's Fanny is not a desiccant.....nor, it seems, exactly
a floatant either. Or, at least not a floatant like most that we are
familiar with. It doesn't appear to absorb water like desiccants. Thus,
anything that is thoroughly coated with it won't absorb either. But it
doesn't cling to fly tying materials like all of the hydrocarbon based
floatant materials we're used to......and thus, it doesn't last long either.

I did another experiment. I don't know what "fumed" silica is, but I DO
know what silica is. Silica is silicon dioxide.....two oxygen atoms bonded
(very tightly) to one silicon atom. Silicon dioxide is THE most common
substance in the Earth's crust (remember OSiAlFeCaNaKMg?)....rock, sand,
quartz. Silicon dioxide won't burn.....burning is combustion, is
oxidation.....the silicon in silicon dioxide is already as oxidized as it's
ever going to get. I put a liberal shake of FF on a piece of paper towel,
and set fire to the paper. The FF survived, unscathed. Whatever this stuff
is, one simple test confirms that it COULD be silica.

Is there a mineralogist in the house?

Wolfgang
ain't science fun? :)

Buy a little bottle of silicone water-proofer made for shoes.
Cavalier' is one brand name, available at Walmart. When you finish
tying a batch of dry flies, dip them in it, or paint them with it
using a small brush, and let them dry overnight.

You don't have to mess around with "greasy kid stuff" while on the
stream.

Alternative: Buy a can of Thompson Water seal. Do the above.

vince

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 00:50:50 GMT, "Larry L"
> wrote:

>
>"Goat" > wrote
>
>> George, could this be the stuff / site you are refering to? Sounds the
>> same, bag and all. $5.20
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/cabosil.php
>>
>>
>
>
>for $5 I'm going to try it ... that was one site I remember from when I was
>looking the first time. I didn't want to get it online if I could find it
>local, at that time.
>

If I may offer: Google up Cabot's website, get the product numbers for
the various "Cab-O-Sil" products, and then simply compare what Spruce
has to the Cabot product data. Just make sure it is a
hydrophobic/treated variety, Cabot or otherwise.

HTH,
R

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 19:51:13 -0500, "Wolfgang" > wrote:


>
>Is there a mineralogist in the house?

No, but there IS guy whose family owns a silica mine...hydrophobic
(often treated with silicone oil - like copier oil) fumed silica should
have the properties of FF. The untreated variety should not as it is
hydrophilic. I can't remember where I heard it, but I do remember
hearing that FF is the treated stuff as is used in certain toner
formulations. FWIW, "Cab-O-Sil" isn't a specific product, it is a line
name, with various formulations in the line.

HTH,
R

>
>Wolfgang
>ain't science fun? :)
>

>From:

>
>George, could this be the stuff / site you are refering to? Sounds the
>same, bag and all. $5.20
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/cabosil.php

Yes, that's it.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

Hi Goat,

Years ago the old timers mixed paraffin and lighter fluid.

I have seen guides mix the old Red Mucilin paste with lighter fluid to thin
it so they could dunk their flies.

I think you can buy Lanolin Anhydrous at the drug store which is suppose to
be what most paste/crème floatants are made up from.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Goat" > wrote in message
...

> The area I live in does not have a flyshop within an hour drive. After
> gas or shipping charges from mail order (not to mention the wait)
> floatant ends up costing twice as much, but
> more than that it is just becoming a pain in the butt.
> This leads me to my question.
> Does anybody know how I can make my own floatant? Something I can
> pick-up at the hardware store or grocery store prehaps?
> What did the "old timers" use as floatant in the days before LL Bean?
>
> Thanks
>
> (new to group, so if this is a beaten horse..... Sorry)

"vincent p. norris" wrote:
>
> Buy a little bottle of silicone water-proofer made for shoes.
> Cavalier' is one brand name, available at Walmart. When you finish
> tying a batch of dry flies, dip them in it, or paint them with it
> using a small brush, and let them dry overnight.

A low cost alternative to Hydrostop..... thanks, Vince.

JR

"Larry L" wrote:
> I'm not convinced that fumed silica, as sold for thickening resins, IS the
> same as Frog's Fanny. I bought some from West Marine ( not "cab-o-sil"
> brand, but fumed silica sold for same market) and it DOES look just like
> Frog's Fanny, and DOES dry a fly just like Frog's Fanny.
>
> BUT, that fly does NOT stay dry nearly as well as with Frog's Fanny.
> Someone here on ROFF has said that Frog's Fanny (hereafter referred to as
FF
> :) is "just a desiccant, not a fly floatant" That is not consistent
with
> my experience OR the FF label/marketing packaging which clearly promotes
> FF's ability to repel water and thus trap air around the fly for nymphing
> use.

I heartily agree. Willi gave me a zip-lock full of silica gel (having
that laying around the house raised a few eyebrows), and although it works
quite well, it isn't the same as real FF, per Larry's observations.

wrote in message >...

> No, but there IS guy whose family owns a silica mine...hydrophobic
> (often treated with silicone oil - like copier oil) fumed silica should
> have the properties of FF. The untreated variety should not as it is
> hydrophilic. I can't remember where I heard it, but I do remember
> hearing that FF is the treated stuff as is used in certain toner
> formulations. FWIW, "Cab-O-Sil" isn't a specific product, it is a line
> name, with various formulations in the line.

I am wondering if cab-o-sil is the same as "colloidal silica". The
reason I mention it is because you used to be able to get a sampler
pack from West System epoxy that included "colloidal silica" as a
filler. IIRC, you simply paid shipping costs for the pack. (Or
shipping costs plus a nominal fee.) I don't know if they still offer
that or not.

Anyhow, if this stuff is the same, I'd guess that you could order
some from them for a decent price.


Chuck Vance (who'll have to dig around in his shop to see where
he put that sampler pack)

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 16:29:11 GMT, (Goat) wrote:

>The area I live in does not have a flyshop within an hour drive. After
>gas or shipping charges from mail order (not to mention the wait)
>floatant ends up costing twice as much, but
>more than that it is just becoming a pain in the butt.
>This leads me to my question.
>Does anybody know how I can make my own floatant? Something I can
>pick-up at the hardware store or grocery store prehaps?
>What did the "old timers" use as floatant in the days before LL Bean?
>
>Thanks
>
>(new to group, so if this is a beaten horse..... Sorry)


Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?


g.c.

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 16:29:11 GMT, (Goat) wrote:

>The area I live in does not have a flyshop within an hour drive. After
>gas or shipping charges from mail order (not to mention the wait)
>floatant ends up costing twice as much, but
>more than that it is just becoming a pain in the butt.
>This leads me to my question.
>Does anybody know how I can make my own floatant? Something I can
>pick-up at the hardware store or grocery store prehaps?
>What did the "old timers" use as floatant in the days before LL Bean?
>
>Thanks
>
>(new to group, so if this is a beaten horse..... Sorry)


Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?


g.c.

>From: George Cleveland

>Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
>of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
>plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
>discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?

I've been using Albolene for three years, and Cab-O-Sil for one, and have been
happy with both.
The Albolene is a little thicker, when cold, than Gink or Aquel, and I used to
thin it with mineral oil, but I find it works just as well straight from the
jar. A bit of a PIA to refill the bottles, but winter is long up here, so I
have plenty of time.
There is some question as to whether Cab-O-Sil is identical to Frog's Fanny. It
may or may not be, but it works well enough for me.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

"George Cleveland" wrote...
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 16:29:11 GMT, (Goat) wrote:
>
> >The area I live in does not have a flyshop within an hour drive. After
> >gas or shipping charges from mail order (not to mention the wait)
> >floatant ends up costing twice as much, but
> >more than that it is just becoming a pain in the butt.
> >This leads me to my question.
> >Does anybody know how I can make my own floatant? Something I can
> >pick-up at the hardware store or grocery store prehaps?
> >What did the "old timers" use as floatant in the days before LL Bean?
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >(new to group, so if this is a beaten horse..... Sorry)
>
>
> Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
> of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
> plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
> discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?

I'll confess to the latter. It's strictly a convenience thing. Also, I really
don't use that much floatant during a season, so a single small bottle goes a
long way for me.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

George Cleveland wrote:
>
> Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
> of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
> plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
> discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?

I no longer use floatant at all, I use Frog Fanny and an Amadou.
I'm still using the Frog Fanny I bought two years ago but I'm
down to my last Amadou. I've not been able to find genuine Amadou
here in the states. The fly shops sell a synthetic version called
Samadou that doesn't work nearly as well.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
> George Cleveland wrote:
> >
> > Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
> > of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
> > plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
> > discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?
>
> I no longer use floatant at all, I use Frog Fanny and an Amadou.
> I'm still using the Frog Fanny I bought two years ago but I'm
> down to my last Amadou. I've not been able to find genuine Amadou
> here in the states. The fly shops sell a synthetic version called
> Samadou that doesn't work nearly as well.

http://tinyurl.com/6gcg6
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:46:55 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
> wrote:

>George Cleveland wrote:
>>
>> Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
>> of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
>> plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
>> discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?
>
>I no longer use floatant at all, I use Frog Fanny and an Amadou.
>I'm still using the Frog Fanny I bought two years ago but I'm
>down to my last Amadou. I've not been able to find genuine Amadou
>here in the states. The fly shops sell a synthetic version called
>Samadou that doesn't work nearly as well.
You can order large sheets from this company in Europe.

http://www.petitjean.ch/

g.c.

George Cleveland wrote:
>
> Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
> of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
> plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
> discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?

Yo.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

George Adams wrote:

> The Albolene is a little thicker, when cold, than Gink or Aquel, and I used to
> thin it with mineral oil, but I find it works just as well straight from the
> jar. A bit of a PIA to refill the bottles, but winter is long up here, so I
> have plenty of time.

I just melt it in a sauce pan and and pour it into the bottle.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

George Adams wrote:

> The Albolene is a little thicker, when cold, than Gink or Aquel, and I used to
> thin it with mineral oil, but I find it works just as well straight from the
> jar. A bit of a PIA to refill the bottles, but winter is long up here, so I
> have plenty of time.

I just melt it in a sauce pan and and pour it into the bottle.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

George Cleveland wrote:
> Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>>I've not been able to find genuine Amadou
>>here in the states. ...
>
> You can order large sheets from this company in Europe.
>
> http://www.petitjean.ch/

Excellent. Thanks for the link, that's exactly what I've
been using. I'll cut that sheet into thirds and each third
will last a season or more.

--
Ken Fortenberry

George Cleveland > wrote in
:

> Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
> of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
> plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
> discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?
>
>
> g.c.
>

Not me. I can understand the DIY principle, but when it comes to saving
$3.50 per season (if that), it seems out of whack not to just pick up some
floatant from my local shop. Seems like a fair trade in exchange for the
wealth of info, support, and good conversation that I've gotten out of my
three local flyshops for years.

That said, I don't know what I would do about floatant if I didn't have a
convenient local shop.

Scott

"George Cleveland" > wrote in message
...

> Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How
many
> of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead
of
> plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
> discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?

I've been using Albolene for about twenty years. I've bought a couple
of others when I forgot to refill with Albolene or lost it. Haven't
noticed a significant difference among them. Might as well stay with
the cheap stuff.

Wolfgang

Hi Ken,

I think the wily Amadou is now on the endangered species list?

(bad joke)

PS: I think you are right on with the Frogs Fanny and Amadou though.
--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...

> George Cleveland wrote:
> >
> > Okay all you junior chemists here is the pertinent question. How many
> > of you are actually using Albolene straight out of the jar instead of
> > plunking down your $3.50 at the counter of the local fly shop/
> > discount store when your little plastic bottle goes dry?
>
> I no longer use floatant at all, I use Frog Fanny and an Amadou.
> I'm still using the Frog Fanny I bought two years ago but I'm
> down to my last Amadou. I've not been able to find genuine Amadou
> here in the states. The fly shops sell a synthetic version called
> Samadou that doesn't work nearly as well.
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry

> wrote in message
...
> On 21 Aug 2004 17:02:36 GMT, (George Adams)
> wrote:
>

> George (Gehrke, not Adams) was, well, Ginkles, but all the same, he was
> a ROFFian, and he may have been a lot of things, but he wasn't a
> quitter, and he sure as hell was a part of FFing history. And truth be
> told, as I've said before, I kinda miss the crazy old son of a bitch -
> sort of ROFF's own G. L. Herter-meets-H.L. Meinken-meets-Bulwinkle J.
> Moose.

> TC,
> R
>
Yeah, he was quite the character... although I am pretty much convinced that
Gink is Albolene, I would like to point out that George Gehrke, and both of
his sons that I knew, and one former employee, swore up and down to me that
Gink wasn't made form Albolene the few times I asked them point blank...

I really don't care one way or the other, as I have a lifetime supply of the
real Gink purchased from a fly shop liquidation....

George Gehrke... sort of like Herters on Acid.

Bill Kiene wrote:

> Hi Ken,
>
> I think the wily Amadou is now on the endangered species list?
>
> (bad joke)
>
> PS: I think you are right on with the Frogs Fanny and Amadou though.

Yeah, it works really well, better than floatant I think.

There's a marketing opportunity for you and Waldo. Nobody wants to
pay Orvis $20 for fifty cents worth of Amadou attached to a $19.50
piece of leather and a d-ring. Especially since the leather and
d-ring are useless when the Amadou wears out.

(You're top posting BTW, keep it up and you'll grow nose warts. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
> George Cleveland wrote:
> > Ken Fortenberry wrote:
> >>I've not been able to find genuine Amadou
> >>here in the states. ...
> >
> > You can order large sheets from this company in Europe.
> >
> > http://www.petitjean.ch/
>
> Excellent. Thanks for the link, that's exactly what I've
> been using. I'll cut that sheet into thirds and each third
> will last a season or more.

The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for shipping (about
$62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because of the $20
Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3 of a sheet is a
year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How long does this
stuff keep its properties?

Another option would be for 3 or more of us to chip in for a sheet apiece. I'd
like to try it for myself and would be willing to do it that way.
--
TL,
Tim
who will gladly pay you Tuesday for some amadou today.
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Tim J. wrote:
>
> The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for shipping (about
> $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because of the $20
> Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3 of a sheet is a
> year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How long does this
> stuff keep its properties?

Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. Eventually, as you use it,
it starts to shred. It works better smooth, but will continue to work
until it just falls apart. I've kept ragged pieces as small as a quarter.
To answer your question, if you keep it in the package and don't use
it, I assume it will keep its properties in perpetuity, if you use it
it will eventually fall apart. I get a season or more out of a piece
that measures about 2"X4".

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in
message ...
> Tim J. wrote:
> >
> > The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for
shipping (about
> > $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because
of the $20
> > Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3
of a sheet is a
> > year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How
long does this
> > stuff keep its properties?
>
> Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. Eventually, as you use
it,
> it starts to shred. It works better smooth, but will continue to
work
> until it just falls apart. I've kept ragged pieces as small as a
quarter.
> To answer your question, if you keep it in the package and don't use
> it, I assume it will keep its properties in perpetuity, if you use
it
> it will eventually fall apart. I get a season or more out of a piece
> that measures about 2"X4".

Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
eventually oxidize and crumble. A piece of chamois works as well, is
a lot cheaper and much more readily available. The sleeve of a well
worn cotton shirt is better in every respect......except, of course,
for cachet among elitist idiots.

Wolfgang

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in
message ...
> Tim J. wrote:
> >
> > The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for
shipping (about
> > $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because
of the $20
> > Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3
of a sheet is a
> > year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How
long does this
> > stuff keep its properties?
>
> Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. Eventually, as you use
it,
> it starts to shred. It works better smooth, but will continue to
work
> until it just falls apart. I've kept ragged pieces as small as a
quarter.
> To answer your question, if you keep it in the package and don't use
> it, I assume it will keep its properties in perpetuity, if you use
it
> it will eventually fall apart. I get a season or more out of a piece
> that measures about 2"X4".

Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
eventually oxidize and crumble. A piece of chamois works as well, is
a lot cheaper and much more readily available. The sleeve of a well
worn cotton shirt is better in every respect......except, of course,
for cachet among elitist idiots.

Wolfgang

(Conan The Librarian) wrote in
om:

> wrote in message
> >...
>
>> No, but there IS guy whose family owns a silica mine...hydrophobic
>> (often treated with silicone oil - like copier oil) fumed silica
>> should have the properties of FF. The untreated variety should not
>> as it is hydrophilic. I can't remember where I heard it, but I do
>> remember hearing that FF is the treated stuff as is used in certain
>> toner formulations. FWIW, "Cab-O-Sil" isn't a specific product, it
>> is a line name, with various formulations in the line.
>
> I am wondering if cab-o-sil is the same as "colloidal silica". The
> reason I mention it is because you used to be able to get a sampler
> pack from West System epoxy that included "colloidal silica" as a
> filler. IIRC, you simply paid shipping costs for the pack. (Or
> shipping costs plus a nominal fee.) I don't know if they still offer
> that or not.
>
> Anyhow, if this stuff is the same, I'd guess that you could order
> some from them for a decent price.
>
>
> Chuck Vance (who'll have to dig around in his shop to see where
> he put that sampler pack)
>

FWIW I experienced the same result Larry L described earlier. I only mention it here
because I was testing West System 406 Colloidal Silica which Chuck mentions. I don't
know anything about Frog's Fanny but assume the Top Ride I use is the same sort of
thing. I added a teaspoon or so of the 406 to the Top Ride container and tried it out.
I am certain it is not the right stuff. Although it dried the fly well enough it
seemed to make it sink rather than float especially if I had applied paste floatant to
the fly earlier. In that case the silica clumped onto the fly and dragged it down
instantly. Perhaps there are different formulations of colloidal silica as RDean
suggested but based on my experience West 406 Colloidal is NOT the right kind.

Back to the fly shop to replace the Top (now Bottom!) Ride.

Jeff

Wolfgang wrote:
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
>>Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. ...
>
> Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
> eventually oxidize and crumble. A piece of chamois works as well, is
> a lot cheaper and much more readily available. The sleeve of a well
> worn cotton shirt is better in every respect......except, of course,
> for cachet among elitist idiots.

Always nice to hear the knee-jerk nasty contingent weighing in.

A small piece of chamois will de-slime a fly a few times, a small
piece of cotton will not de-slime a fly at all. Amadou is the way
to go.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Wolfgang" wrote...
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
> > Tim J. wrote:
> > >
> > > The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for
> shipping (about
> > > $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because
> of the $20
> > > Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3
> of a sheet is a
> > > year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How
> long does this
> > > stuff keep its properties?
> >
> > Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. Eventually, as you use
> it,
> > it starts to shred. It works better smooth, but will continue to
> work
> > until it just falls apart. I've kept ragged pieces as small as a
> quarter.
> > To answer your question, if you keep it in the package and don't use
> > it, I assume it will keep its properties in perpetuity, if you use
> it
> > it will eventually fall apart. I get a season or more out of a piece
> > that measures about 2"X4".
>
> Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
> eventually oxidize and crumble.

It's the "eventually" part I'd like to have clarified.

> A piece of chamois works as well, is
> a lot cheaper and much more readily available. The sleeve of a well
> worn cotton shirt is better in every respect......except, of course,
> for cachet among elitist idiots.

All that said, I have no way of making that comparison without trying the amadou
myself.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Wolfgang" wrote...
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
> > Tim J. wrote:
> > >
> > > The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for
> shipping (about
> > > $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because
> of the $20
> > > Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3
> of a sheet is a
> > > year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How
> long does this
> > > stuff keep its properties?
> >
> > Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. Eventually, as you use
> it,
> > it starts to shred. It works better smooth, but will continue to
> work
> > until it just falls apart. I've kept ragged pieces as small as a
> quarter.
> > To answer your question, if you keep it in the package and don't use
> > it, I assume it will keep its properties in perpetuity, if you use
> it
> > it will eventually fall apart. I get a season or more out of a piece
> > that measures about 2"X4".
>
> Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
> eventually oxidize and crumble.

It's the "eventually" part I'd like to have clarified.

> A piece of chamois works as well, is
> a lot cheaper and much more readily available. The sleeve of a well
> worn cotton shirt is better in every respect......except, of course,
> for cachet among elitist idiots.

All that said, I have no way of making that comparison without trying the amadou
myself.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Tim J. wrote:
> "Wolfgang" wrote...
>>Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
>>eventually oxidize and crumble.
>
> It's the "eventually" part I'd like to have clarified.

Think geologic time. I've had pieces out of the package for over
ten years that don't look, or perform, any different than they
did the day they arrived.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Tim J. wrote:
> "Wolfgang" wrote...
>>Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
>>eventually oxidize and crumble.
>
> It's the "eventually" part I'd like to have clarified.

Think geologic time. I've had pieces out of the package for over
ten years that don't look, or perform, any different than they
did the day they arrived.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Wolfgang > wrote:
>
> The sleeve of a well
> worn cotton shirt is better

The _best_ reason to stick with plain ol' 100% cotton tees...

Jon.

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
> >>Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. ...
> >
> > Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
> > eventually oxidize and crumble. A piece of chamois works as well, is
> > a lot cheaper and much more readily available. The sleeve of a well
> > worn cotton shirt is better in every respect......except, of course,
> > for cachet among elitist idiots.
>
> Always nice to hear the knee-jerk nasty contingent weighing in.
>
> A small piece of chamois will de-slime a fly a few times, a small
> piece of cotton will not de-slime a fly at all. Amadou is the way
> to go.

Horse****. Amadou does exactly what chamois or cotton.....or a paper towel,
for that matter...do. It absorbs water. It doesn't remove slime. If it
did, we wouldn't have in our presence a piece of slime who uses his daughter
as bait.

Wolfgang

"Tim J." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Wolfgang" wrote...
> > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
> > > Tim J. wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for
> > shipping (about
> > > > $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because
> > of the $20
> > > > Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3
> > of a sheet is a
> > > > year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How
> > long does this
> > > > stuff keep its properties?
> > >
> > > Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. Eventually, as you use
> > it,
> > > it starts to shred. It works better smooth, but will continue to
> > work
> > > until it just falls apart. I've kept ragged pieces as small as a
> > quarter.
> > > To answer your question, if you keep it in the package and don't use
> > > it, I assume it will keep its properties in perpetuity, if you use
> > it
> > > it will eventually fall apart. I get a season or more out of a piece
> > > that measures about 2"X4".
> >
> > Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
> > eventually oxidize and crumble.
>
> It's the "eventually" part I'd like to have clarified.

Considerably less than in "perpetuity". How long it will last depends on
storage conditions. Drier is better. An oxygen free atmosphere is better
yet. Under normal conditions.....lying somewhere in the back of a drawer or
closet.....it's probably o.k. for a few years.

> > A piece of chamois works as well, is
> > a lot cheaper and much more readily available. The sleeve of a well
> > worn cotton shirt is better in every respect......except, of course,
> > for cachet among elitist idiots.
>
> All that said, I have no way of making that comparison without trying the
amadou
> myself.

Try it. It's good stuff.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
>> ...
>>A small piece of chamois will de-slime a fly a few times, a small
>>piece of cotton will not de-slime a fly at all. Amadou is the way
>>to go.
>
> Horse****. Amadou does exactly what chamois or cotton.....or a paper towel,
> for that matter...do. It absorbs water. It doesn't remove slime. If it
> did, we wouldn't have in our presence ...

Well, that was uncalled for, not to mention nasty. But then nasty
is your forte.

As to the question at hand, you're wrong. Amadou removes the water
AND the slime and using an Amadou prepares the fly for the next
application of Frog Fanny better than anything I've ever used.
And that includes a cotton T-shirt, a piece of auto chamois, and
a piece of Cabela's Samadou.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
> >> ...
> >>A small piece of chamois will de-slime a fly a few times, a small
> >>piece of cotton will not de-slime a fly at all. Amadou is the way
> >>to go.
> >
> > Horse****. Amadou does exactly what chamois or cotton.....or a paper
towel,
> > for that matter...do. It absorbs water. It doesn't remove slime. If
it
> > did, we wouldn't have in our presence ...
>
> Well, that was uncalled for, not to mention nasty. But then nasty
> is your forte.

On the contrary, many here know as well as you do that you have been begging
for it for a long, long time. Now, you can pretend all you like that it's
possible to be a gratuitous ****head forever and not deal with the
consequences, but that isn't the same as knowing that it's true, is it?
Yes, it works fairly well for some......LaCourse is a good
example.....becuase of the native generosity of most of their audience, but
then, you're no retired Navy chief, are you?

> As to the question at hand, you're wrong. Amadou removes the water
> AND the slime and using an Amadou prepares the fly for the next
> application of Frog Fanny better than anything I've ever used.
> And that includes a cotton T-shirt, a piece of auto chamois, and
> a piece of Cabela's Samadou.

Horse****. Amadou absorbs water. That's all it does. All the snotty
elitist posturing in the world will never change that. Grow up.

Wolfgang
and, say, how's that freelance writing career coming along? :)

Wolfgang wrote:
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
>>
>>Well, that was uncalled for, not to mention nasty. But then nasty
>>is your forte.
>
> On the contrary, many here know as well as you do that you have been begging
> for it for a long, long time. Now, you can pretend all you like that it's
> possible to be a gratuitous ****head forever and not deal with the
> consequences, but that isn't the same as knowing that it's true, is it?

If by consequences you mean nasty personal attacks from a Usenet
psychopath like you, it pretty much comes with the territory. And
hell, you don't even have to be a gratuitous ****head, you've been
known to launch nasty personal attacks against just about anybody
and everybody.

> Yes, it works fairly well for some......LaCourse is a good
> example.....becuase of the native generosity of most of their audience, but
> then, you're no retired Navy chief, are you?

No, but I own three really nice canoes.

>>As to the question at hand, you're wrong. Amadou removes the water
>>AND the slime ...
>
> Horse****. ...

Uh huh, you said that already. You're still wrong.

> and, say, how's that freelance writing career coming along? :)

Very well, thanks. Not as lucrative as Unix Sys Admin but it keeps
me in Budweiser and Amadou.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Wolfgang wrote:
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
>>
>>Well, that was uncalled for, not to mention nasty. But then nasty
>>is your forte.
>
> On the contrary, many here know as well as you do that you have been begging
> for it for a long, long time. Now, you can pretend all you like that it's
> possible to be a gratuitous ****head forever and not deal with the
> consequences, but that isn't the same as knowing that it's true, is it?

If by consequences you mean nasty personal attacks from a Usenet
psychopath like you, it pretty much comes with the territory. And
hell, you don't even have to be a gratuitous ****head, you've been
known to launch nasty personal attacks against just about anybody
and everybody.

> Yes, it works fairly well for some......LaCourse is a good
> example.....becuase of the native generosity of most of their audience, but
> then, you're no retired Navy chief, are you?

No, but I own three really nice canoes.

>>As to the question at hand, you're wrong. Amadou removes the water
>>AND the slime ...
>
> Horse****. ...

Uh huh, you said that already. You're still wrong.

> and, say, how's that freelance writing career coming along? :)

Very well, thanks. Not as lucrative as Unix Sys Admin but it keeps
me in Budweiser and Amadou.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
> >>
> >>Well, that was uncalled for, not to mention nasty. But then nasty
> >>is your forte.
> >
> > On the contrary, many here know as well as you do that you have been
begging
> > for it for a long, long time. Now, you can pretend all you like that
it's
> > possible to be a gratuitous ****head forever and not deal with the
> > consequences, but that isn't the same as knowing that it's true, is it?
>
> If by consequences you mean nasty personal attacks from a Usenet
> psychopath like you, it pretty much comes with the territory. And
> hell, you don't even have to be a gratuitous ****head, you've been
> known to launch nasty personal attacks against just about anybody
> and everybody.

What many people seem to miss is the fact that as vitriolic as these little
charades get, in the end they always devolve to comedy. A rather low form
of humor, to be sure, but funny nevertheless. :)

> > Yes, it works fairly well for some......LaCourse is a good
> > example.....becuase of the native generosity of most of their audience,
but
> > then, you're no retired Navy chief, are you?
>
> No, but I own three really nice canoes.
>
> >>As to the question at hand, you're wrong. Amadou removes the water
> >>AND the slime ...
> >
> > Horse****. ...
>
> Uh huh, you said that already. You're still wrong.

O.k., so how does amadou work this incredible magic?

> > and, say, how's that freelance writing career coming along? :)
>
> Very well, thanks. Not as lucrative as Unix Sys Admin but it keeps
> me in Budweiser and Amadou.

$450.00 a month, huh? Wow, you're better than even YOU thought!

Wolfgang
you know i read it in a magazine......

"Wolfgang" > wrote

> you know i read it in a magazine......
>
> ...benny and the jets!!!

hey, this could be fun!

yfitons
wayno(she's got electric boots, a mohair suit...)

>From: Jeff Marso

>FWIW I experienced the same result Larry L described earlier. I only mention
>it here
>because I was testing West System 406 Colloidal Silica which Chuck mentions.
>I don't
>know anything about Frog's Fanny but assume the Top Ride I use is the same
>sort of
>thing.

> I added a teaspoon or so of the 406 to the Top Ride container and tried it
>out.
>I am certain it is not the right stuff. Although it dried the fly well enough
>it
>seemed to make it sink rather than float especially if I had applied paste
>floatant to
>the fly earlier.

> In that case the silica clumped onto the fly and dragged it down
>instantly. Perhaps there are different formulations of colloidal silica as
>RDean
>suggested but based on my experience West 406 Colloidal is NOT the right
>kind.

According to what I got from the Cabot website, I would say you want untreated
fumed silica. (Cab-O-Sil M-5, I think) This would be the stuff added to paint
and epoxy to help keep it from running down vertical surfaces. The treated
stuff used in toner is quite different.

The stuff I got from Aircraft Spruce may not be identical to FF, but it works
quite well for me.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

>From: Jeff Marso

>FWIW I experienced the same result Larry L described earlier. I only mention
>it here
>because I was testing West System 406 Colloidal Silica which Chuck mentions.
>I don't
>know anything about Frog's Fanny but assume the Top Ride I use is the same
>sort of
>thing.

> I added a teaspoon or so of the 406 to the Top Ride container and tried it
>out.
>I am certain it is not the right stuff. Although it dried the fly well enough
>it
>seemed to make it sink rather than float especially if I had applied paste
>floatant to
>the fly earlier.

> In that case the silica clumped onto the fly and dragged it down
>instantly. Perhaps there are different formulations of colloidal silica as
>RDean
>suggested but based on my experience West 406 Colloidal is NOT the right
>kind.

According to what I got from the Cabot website, I would say you want untreated
fumed silica. (Cab-O-Sil M-5, I think) This would be the stuff added to paint
and epoxy to help keep it from running down vertical surfaces. The treated
stuff used in toner is quite different.

The stuff I got from Aircraft Spruce may not be identical to FF, but it works
quite well for me.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

>From: Ken Fortenberry

>As to the question at hand, you're wrong. Amadou removes the water
>AND the slime and using an Amadou prepares the fly for the next
>application of Frog Fanny better than anything I've ever used.
>And that includes a cotton T-shirt, a piece of auto chamois, and
>a piece of Cabela's Samadou.

Never used Amadou. I've used Samadou and chamois, and, IMO, the chamois is
cheaper and works better than Samadou. I used to try to use a fleece patch,
which didn't work at all.

The way I treat a slimed fly is as follows:

Make a couple of short casts away from where the fish are, slapping the fly
sharply on the surface.

Dry the fly with the chamois.

Apply Frog's Fanny (Or Cab-O-Sil)

This procedure works quite well, even with the ostrich herl and cdc midge
patterns I have been using recently.



George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

"Jonathan Cook" > wrote in message
...
> Wolfgang > wrote:
> >
> > The sleeve of a well
> > worn cotton shirt is better
>
> The _best_ reason to stick with plain ol' 100% cotton tees...

Not that there aren't other sufficient reasons. :)

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
>> ...
>>Uh huh, you said that already. You're still wrong.
>
> O.k., so how does amadou work this incredible magic?

Beats hell out of me. I don't pretend to be some sort of
amateur chemist with a penchant for pretentious jargon
and a pre-fab crackpot explanation. All I know is that
an Amadou removes water and trout slime from fur and
feathers so that the next application of Frog Fanny is
as effective as the previous application.

You can dispute this until you're blue in the face, but
I know that it's true.

>... Not as lucrative as Unix Sys Admin but it keeps
>>me in Budweiser and Amadou.
>
> $450.00 a month, huh? Wow, you're better than even YOU thought!

You GROSSLY underestimate my monthly Budweiser bill. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

"George Adams" > wrote in message
...
> >From: Ken Fortenberry
>
> >As to the question at hand, you're wrong. Amadou removes the water
> >AND the slime and using an Amadou prepares the fly for the next
> >application of Frog Fanny better than anything I've ever used.
> >And that includes a cotton T-shirt, a piece of auto chamois, and
> >a piece of Cabela's Samadou.
>
> Never used Amadou. I've used Samadou and chamois, and, IMO, the chamois is
> cheaper and works better than Samadou. I used to try to use a fleece
patch,
> which didn't work at all.

A fleece patch....or, at least, the original....is simply raw wool on the
tanned skin. Wool, it should come as no surprise, is an extremely poor
material for absorbing water. Waterlogged sheep are no good to themselves
or anyone else. As a matter of fact, you'd do better shearing off the hair
and using the tanned hide........in essence, what you'd have is chamois.

> The way I treat a slimed fly is as follows:
>
> Make a couple of short casts away from where the fish are, slapping the
fly
> sharply on the surface.

I don't doubt that this method works, but it seems to me it would startle a
lot of fish. I usually just let it drag in the current downstream for a
bit.

> Dry the fly with the chamois.

Or a piece of weel worn cotton fabric......if one is available. :)

> Apply Frog's Fanny (Or Cab-O-Sil)
>
> This procedure works quite well, even with the ostrich herl and cdc midge
> patterns I have been using recently.

I don't use much ostrich herl, and I've never tried cdc. Typically, I'll
grease a fly up real good with Albolene and then, after it's been slimed or
waterlogged, I dry it thoroughly with a piece of well worn cotton fabric,
chamois or......if nothing better is available.....amadou. Then, and only
then, I break out the FF.

Wolfgang

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
> >> ...
> >>Uh huh, you said that already. You're still wrong.
> >
> > O.k., so how does amadou work this incredible magic?
>
> Beats hell out of me.

Yeah, but what don't?

> I don't pretend to be some sort of
> amateur chemist with a penchant for pretentious jargon
> and a pre-fab crackpot explanation.

Ah, then it's for eal!

> All I know is that
> an Amadou removes water and trout slime from fur and
> feathers so that the next application of Frog Fanny is
> as effective as the previous application.

You know a great deal less than you think you do......as everyone here
knows.

> You can dispute this until you're blue in the face, but
> I know that it's true.

You know a great deal less than you think you do.

> >... Not as lucrative as Unix Sys Admin but it keeps
> >>me in Budweiser and Amadou.
> >
> > $450.00 a month, huh? Wow, you're better than even YOU thought!
>
> You GROSSLY underestimate my monthly Budweiser bill. ;-)

Judging by what we've all seen here and what a good few of us have seen in
person, a six pack would be enough to get you ****ed in any frat house in
the country. You must use an awful lot of amadou.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" > wrote in message
...
>

> Ah, then it's for eal!

Hm......

Should have been "real". I can understand why spellcheckers don't quite
understand exactly what it is one is trying to say, but it often seems that
they miss a lot of stuff that they shouldn't. "Eal", for God's sake?
:(

Wolfgang
who hastens to add that the damned thing caught it THIS time!

"Wolfgang" wrote...
> "Tim J." wrote...
> > "Wolfgang" wrote...
> > > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
> > > > Tim J. wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for
> > > shipping (about
> > > > > $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because
> > > of the $20
> > > > > Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3
> > > of a sheet is a
> > > > > year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How
> > > long does this
> > > > > stuff keep its properties?
> > > >
> > > > Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. Eventually, as you use
> > > it,
> > > > it starts to shred. It works better smooth, but will continue to
> > > work
> > > > until it just falls apart. I've kept ragged pieces as small as a
> > > quarter.
> > > > To answer your question, if you keep it in the package and don't use
> > > > it, I assume it will keep its properties in perpetuity, if you use
> > > it
> > > > it will eventually fall apart. I get a season or more out of a piece
> > > > that measures about 2"X4".
> > >
> > > Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
> > > eventually oxidize and crumble.
> >
> > It's the "eventually" part I'd like to have clarified.
>
> Considerably less than in "perpetuity". How long it will last depends on
> storage conditions. Drier is better. An oxygen free atmosphere is better
> yet. Under normal conditions.....lying somewhere in the back of a drawer or
> closet.....it's probably o.k. for a few years.
>
> > > A piece of chamois works as well, is
> > > a lot cheaper and much more readily available. The sleeve of a well
> > > worn cotton shirt is better in every respect......except, of course,
> > > for cachet among elitist idiots.
> >
> > All that said, I have no way of making that comparison without trying the
> amadou
> > myself.
>
> Try it. It's good stuff.

Okay, but if it isn't any better than a chamois or a shirt sleeve, you owe me
$20. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Tim J." > wrote in message
news:nUvWc.171885$8_6.87065@attbi_s04...
>
> "Wolfgang" wrote...
> > "Tim J." wrote...
> > > "Wolfgang" wrote...
> > > > "Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
> > > > > Tim J. wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for
> > > > shipping (about
> > > > > > $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because
> > > > of the $20
> > > > > > Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3
> > > > of a sheet is a
> > > > > > year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply.
How
> > > > long does this
> > > > > > stuff keep its properties?
> > > > >
> > > > > Amadou starts out very smooth on both sides. Eventually, as you
use
> > > > it,
> > > > > it starts to shred. It works better smooth, but will continue to
> > > > work
> > > > > until it just falls apart. I've kept ragged pieces as small as a
> > > > quarter.
> > > > > To answer your question, if you keep it in the package and don't
use
> > > > > it, I assume it will keep its properties in perpetuity, if you use
> > > > it
> > > > > it will eventually fall apart. I get a season or more out of a
piece
> > > > > that measures about 2"X4".
> > > >
> > > > Amadou is simply a fungus. Leave it in the package and it will
> > > > eventually oxidize and crumble.
> > >
> > > It's the "eventually" part I'd like to have clarified.
> >
> > Considerably less than in "perpetuity". How long it will last depends
on
> > storage conditions. Drier is better. An oxygen free atmosphere is
better
> > yet. Under normal conditions.....lying somewhere in the back of a
drawer or
> > closet.....it's probably o.k. for a few years.
> >
> > > > A piece of chamois works as well, is
> > > > a lot cheaper and much more readily available. The sleeve of a well
> > > > worn cotton shirt is better in every respect......except, of course,
> > > > for cachet among elitist idiots.
> > >
> > > All that said, I have no way of making that comparison without trying
the
> > amadou
> > > myself.
> >
> > Try it. It's good stuff.
>
> Okay, but if it isn't any better than a chamois or a shirt sleeve, you owe
me
> $20. ;-)

Well, it's not......and, o.k. :)

Wolfgang
you know where to send the snail mail address.

Wolfgang wrote:
>
> ......as everyone here
> knows.
> ...
> Judging by what we've all seen here and what a good few of us ...

Just who is this "everyone," and "we," and "us" you keep talking
about ? Why don't you ever deliver your nasty insults and take
personal responsibilty for them ?

Rhetorical question, we all know the answer to that one. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

George Adams wrote:
>>From: Ken Fortenberry
>
>>As to the question at hand, you're wrong. Amadou removes the water
>>AND the slime and using an Amadou prepares the fly for the next
>>application of Frog Fanny better than anything I've ever used.
>>And that includes a cotton T-shirt, a piece of auto chamois, and
>>a piece of Cabela's Samadou.
>
> Never used Amadou. ...

So you must be the guy Wolfie is talking about when he says "we".

;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > ......as everyone here
> > knows.
> > ...
> > Judging by what we've all seen here and what a good few of us ...
>
> Just who is this "everyone," and "we," and "us" you keep talking
> about ?

"Everyone", in this instance, is everyone reading ROFF. "We" is everyone
who reads ROFF. "Us" includes those of us who have met you.

> Why don't you ever deliver your nasty insults and take
> personal responsibilty for them ?

Did I say something that suggests to you that someone else might claim or be
assigned credit for what I put forth here?

> Rhetorical question, we all know the answer to that one. ;-)

Oh my, what a clever little device. And just who do you think you've fooled
this time? Well, there's me, Mark, Jennifer, Jeff, and Wayno at
least.......right?

Wolfgang
you're a pal and a confidant...

Wolfgang wrote:
> ...
> Oh my, what a clever little device. And just who do you think you've fooled
> this time? ...

Time for me to end my participation in this thread gone bad and remind
you that you're probably gonna want to cover your keyboard in Saran Wrap.
You're just jacking off with your right hand while posting to roff with
your left at this point and fly floatant is but a distant memory.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
> I no longer use floatant at all, I use Frog Fanny and an Amadou.
> I'm still using the Frog Fanny I bought two years ago but I'm
> down to my last Amadou. I've not been able to find genuine Amadou
> here in the states. The fly shops sell a synthetic version called
> Samadou that doesn't work nearly as well.

Me too. The local fly shops still have amadou in stock, but I find
myself carrying only one piece of it. After a couple of hours of good
catching, the amadou is pretty soaked and I usually resort to using my
shirttail.

Charlie,
planning to get rich marketing amadou shirts.

"Charlie Wilson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
> > I no longer use floatant at all, I use Frog Fanny and an Amadou.
> > I'm still using the Frog Fanny I bought two years ago but I'm
> > down to my last Amadou. I've not been able to find genuine Amadou
> > here in the states. The fly shops sell a synthetic version called
> > Samadou that doesn't work nearly as well.
>
> Me too. The local fly shops still have amadou in stock, but I find
> myself carrying only one piece of it. After a couple of hours of good
> catching, the amadou is pretty soaked and I usually resort to using my
> shirttail.
>
> Charlie,
> planning to get rich marketing amadou shirts.

Go with the cotton-amadou blend......wears well and, in a pinch, you can
make soup.

Wolfgang
friend of the american.....and french.....farmer.

"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
m...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> > ...
> > Oh my, what a clever little device. And just who do you think you've
fooled
> > this time? ...
>
> Time for me to end my participation in this thread gone bad and remind
> you that you're probably gonna want to cover your keyboard in Saran Wrap.
> You're just jacking off with your right hand while posting to roff with
> your left at this point and fly floatant is but a distant memory.

Surrender accepted, Dorothy.

Wolfgang
it's like andy jackson and the injuns all over again......and
again.......and again.......and again......
and yes, it IS as easy as it looks. :)

"Tim J." > wrote in message
...
>
> The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for shipping
(about
> $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because of the
$20
> Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3 of a
sheet is a
> year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How long
does this
> stuff keep its properties?
>
> Another option would be for 3 or more of us to chip in for a sheet apiece.
I'd
> like to try it for myself and would be willing to do it that way.
> --
> TL,
> Tim
> who will gladly pay you Tuesday for some amadou today.
> ------------------------
> http://css.sbcma.com/timj
>
>

Amadou retains its properties until it falls apart. This depends entirely on
how often you use it. It must be soaked before use, kept wet ( damp)in
use,and properly dried before storing, as it will otherwise go mouldy.
It also tends to oxidize in time, and simply crumbles. Under "normal"
conditions, ( properly prepared and dried, and then stored in a zip lock
bag), it will last a very long time indeed. I have some which I prepared
over twenty years ago, and it is still OK.

If kept dry when not in use, it will last a very long time. The last piece I
had "in operation", lasted about four seasons of heavy use before it fell
apart.

It is still quite readily available in Europe, although it is expensive. I
make my own, as the woods around my house have a large supply of the fungus.
When properly prepared, it is the best drying agent bar none. I have tried
lots of things, and nothing comes even close to it for effectiveness.

If you want to go cheap, then 3ply paper towels work as well as anything
else I have tried ( barring Amadou).

Amadou was once prepared extensively on a commercial basis as a styptic (
for stilling blood), and also, when treated with nitrates, ( concentrated
urine was often used for this, doubtless the cause of many ****ing contests)
as an igniter for various purposes, one of which was firing flintlocks and
the like.

I prepare mine using caustic soda. The fungus is placed in a strong caustic
solution, allowed to stand for at least two weeks, stirring occasionally.
The result is poured through a fine flat(PLASTIC! I use plastic net curtain
material over a square wooden frame) sieve,spreading the material as one
pours, washed thoroughly in the sieve, and allowed to dry until it looks
like thick yellow parchment. One may hammer this, add water again, and then
repeat the sieving procedure, but I only tried this a couple of times, as
the first result works perfectly.

The surface is smooth at first, roughens with use, and eventually
disintegrates.

The main reason for the extreme absorbent properties are the fibres of the
fungus, which have extremely long capillaries, and these are capable of
absorbing very large quatities of water and other substances ( i.e. Slime).
Amadou is the only substance I know of which will actually remove fish slime
almost completely. ( Without extensive washing with detergent etc). How
this functions exactly, I do not know, but it does. Probably also a
function of the capillaries in the fungus fibres.

TL
MC

"Tim J." > wrote in message
...
>
> The minimum order is three sheets at $50.25 CHF + $30 CHF for shipping
(about
> $62 USD total). I've never used the stuff before, mainly because of the
$20
> Orvis price for a tiny patch you mention in another post. If 1/3 of a
sheet is a
> year or greater supply, this would be about a 10 year supply. How long
does this
> stuff keep its properties?
>
> Another option would be for 3 or more of us to chip in for a sheet apiece.
I'd
> like to try it for myself and would be willing to do it that way.
> --
> TL,
> Tim
> who will gladly pay you Tuesday for some amadou today.
> ------------------------
> http://css.sbcma.com/timj
>
>

Amadou retains its properties until it falls apart. This depends entirely on
how often you use it. It must be soaked before use, kept wet ( damp)in
use,and properly dried before storing, as it will otherwise go mouldy.
It also tends to oxidize in time, and simply crumbles. Under "normal"
conditions, ( properly prepared and dried, and then stored in a zip lock
bag), it will last a very long time indeed. I have some which I prepared
over twenty years ago, and it is still OK.

If kept dry when not in use, it will last a very long time. The last piece I
had "in operation", lasted about four seasons of heavy use before it fell
apart.

It is still quite readily available in Europe, although it is expensive. I
make my own, as the woods around my house have a large supply of the fungus.
When properly prepared, it is the best drying agent bar none. I have tried
lots of things, and nothing comes even close to it for effectiveness.

If you want to go cheap, then 3ply paper towels work as well as anything
else I have tried ( barring Amadou).

Amadou was once prepared extensively on a commercial basis as a styptic (
for stilling blood), and also, when treated with nitrates, ( concentrated
urine was often used for this, doubtless the cause of many ****ing contests)
as an igniter for various purposes, one of which was firing flintlocks and
the like.

I prepare mine using caustic soda. The fungus is placed in a strong caustic
solution, allowed to stand for at least two weeks, stirring occasionally.
The result is poured through a fine flat(PLASTIC! I use plastic net curtain
material over a square wooden frame) sieve,spreading the material as one
pours, washed thoroughly in the sieve, and allowed to dry until it looks
like thick yellow parchment. One may hammer this, add water again, and then
repeat the sieving procedure, but I only tried this a couple of times, as
the first result works perfectly.

The surface is smooth at first, roughens with use, and eventually
disintegrates.

The main reason for the extreme absorbent properties are the fibres of the
fungus, which have extremely long capillaries, and these are capable of
absorbing very large quatities of water and other substances ( i.e. Slime).
Amadou is the only substance I know of which will actually remove fish slime
almost completely. ( Without extensive washing with detergent etc). How
this functions exactly, I do not know, but it does. Probably also a
function of the capillaries in the fungus fibres.

TL
MC

Ken,

What is "top posting"?

You forget, I have a reading handicap and an old generation brain.

--
Bill Kiene



Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
...
> Bill Kiene wrote:
>
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > I think the wily Amadou is now on the endangered species list?
> >
> > (bad joke)
> >
> > PS: I think you are right on with the Frogs Fanny and Amadou though.
>
> Yeah, it works really well, better than floatant I think.
>
> There's a marketing opportunity for you and Waldo. Nobody wants to
> pay Orvis $20 for fifty cents worth of Amadou attached to a $19.50
> piece of leather and a d-ring. Especially since the leather and
> d-ring are useless when the Amadou wears out.
>
> (You're top posting BTW, keep it up and you'll grow nose warts. ;-)
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry

Ken,

What is "top posting"?

You forget, I have a reading handicap and an old generation brain.

--
Bill Kiene



Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Ken Fortenberry" > wrote in message
...
> Bill Kiene wrote:
>
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > I think the wily Amadou is now on the endangered species list?
> >
> > (bad joke)
> >
> > PS: I think you are right on with the Frogs Fanny and Amadou though.
>
> Yeah, it works really well, better than floatant I think.
>
> There's a marketing opportunity for you and Waldo. Nobody wants to
> pay Orvis $20 for fifty cents worth of Amadou attached to a $19.50
> piece of leather and a d-ring. Especially since the leather and
> d-ring are useless when the Amadou wears out.
>
> (You're top posting BTW, keep it up and you'll grow nose warts. ;-)
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry

Wolfgang wrote:
>
> Wolfgang
> who hastens to add that the damned thing caught it THIS time!

It couldn't possibly have been your fault. No way. It must have been
your nondeterministic spell checker.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Wolfgang wrote:
>
> Wolfgang
> who hastens to add that the damned thing caught it THIS time!

It couldn't possibly have been your fault. No way. It must have been
your nondeterministic spell checker.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:00:34 -0400, vincent p. norris >
wrote:

>Buy a little bottle of silicone water-proofer made for shoes.
>Cavalier' is one brand name, available at Walmart. When you finish
>tying a batch of dry flies, dip them in it, or paint them with it
>using a small brush, and let them dry overnight.
>
I've used the silicon spray shoe water proofer on some of my flies.
Seems to work fairly well. I'll have to try it on all of them. And
I've got some silica gel that I bought at the flower shop / nursery /
hobby shop (used to dry flowers for arrangements) that I can use to be
sure they're dry first or after some use.

Cyli
http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:00:34 -0400, vincent p. norris >
wrote:

>Buy a little bottle of silicone water-proofer made for shoes.
>Cavalier' is one brand name, available at Walmart. When you finish
>tying a batch of dry flies, dip them in it, or paint them with it
>using a small brush, and let them dry overnight.
>
I've used the silicon spray shoe water proofer on some of my flies.
Seems to work fairly well. I'll have to try it on all of them. And
I've got some silica gel that I bought at the flower shop / nursery /
hobby shop (used to dry flowers for arrangements) that I can use to be
sure they're dry first or after some use.

Cyli
http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:00:34 -0400, vincent p. norris >
wrote:

>Buy a little bottle of silicone water-proofer made for shoes.
>Cavalier' is one brand name, available at Walmart. When you finish
>tying a batch of dry flies, dip them in it, or paint them with it
>using a small brush, and let them dry overnight.
>
I've used the silicon spray shoe water proofer on some of my flies.
Seems to work fairly well. I'll have to try it on all of them. And
I've got some silica gel that I bought at the flower shop / nursery /
hobby shop (used to dry flowers for arrangements) that I can use to be
sure they're dry first or after some use.

Cyli
http://www.visi.com/~cyli

damn...that might explain the, uh, "effect" of a breakfast of lacourse's
fried eggs... <g>

rw wrote:

>
> I just melt it in a sauce pan ...
>

damn...that might explain the, uh, "effect" of a breakfast of lacourse's
fried eggs... <g>

rw wrote:

>
> I just melt it in a sauce pan ...
>

damn...that might explain the, uh, "effect" of a breakfast of lacourse's
fried eggs... <g>

rw wrote:

>
> I just melt it in a sauce pan ...
>

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 00:31:17 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
> wrote:

>Wolfgang wrote:
>>
>> ......as everyone here
>> knows.
>> ...
>> Judging by what we've all seen here and what a good few of us ...
>
>Just who is this "everyone," and "we," and "us" you keep talking
>about ?

Well, I'm not much of a joiner, but I've thought you were a piece of **** from
day one. And, no matter what anyone tells you, it isn't true that you get
used to the smell. <g> FWIW
--
Charlie...

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 00:31:17 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
> wrote:

>Wolfgang wrote:
>>
>> ......as everyone here
>> knows.
>> ...
>> Judging by what we've all seen here and what a good few of us ...
>
>Just who is this "everyone," and "we," and "us" you keep talking
>about ?

Well, I'm not much of a joiner, but I've thought you were a piece of **** from
day one. And, no matter what anyone tells you, it isn't true that you get
used to the smell. <g> FWIW
--
Charlie...

Charlie Choc wrote:
>
> Well, I'm not much of a joiner, ...

**** you, Choc.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Charlie Choc wrote:
>
> Well, I'm not much of a joiner, ...

**** you, Choc.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On 8/23/04 7:49 PM, in article , "Wolfgang"
> wrote:

>
> "Jonathan Cook" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Wolfgang > wrote:
>>>
>>> The sleeve of a well
>>> worn cotton shirt is better
>>
>> The _best_ reason to stick with plain ol' 100% cotton tees...
>
> Not that there aren't other sufficient reasons. :)

Now, those of us who are seasoned three-night-campout backwoodsmen know that
Cotton Kills!

Cotton is great for a night at the Millheim, but gimme
Capilene/Polartec/Synchilla anytime when it comes to being outside for
extended periods, especially when there is any chance the weather could go
all Penns on ya.

Bill

On 8/23/04 7:49 PM, in article , "Wolfgang"
> wrote:

>
> "Jonathan Cook" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Wolfgang > wrote:
>>>
>>> The sleeve of a well
>>> worn cotton shirt is better
>>
>> The _best_ reason to stick with plain ol' 100% cotton tees...
>
> Not that there aren't other sufficient reasons. :)

No