On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:16:04 -0400, Logic316 wrote:

mid-post

dh@. wrote:
Goo insists that no animals can anticipate, but that humans are
somehow projecting their emotions into the animals causing them
to behave in a way which gives the obvious appearance that they
are experiencing them themselves...most likely through voodoo or
something...it's bizarre, whatever it is.

Perhaps he's referring to "anthropomorphism". Yes, people are often
guilty of attributing human qualities and motives to things that aren't
human. Just look at the Disney channel :-P

It can go either way...people can attribute too much to animals, but they
also can be ignorant of what animals are capable of. The latter is the case
with Goo. But. Goo does insist that a fantasy about a talking pig--an extreme
case of anthropomorphism written by one of his fellow "ARAs"--somehow
refutes the fact that some farm animals benefit from farming.

The only question I have, could such a fish (one having learned to
associate the presence of humans with food) learn to distinguish between
humans and other large creatures who show up in front of it's tank who
don't feed it (like dogs or cats)?

- Logic316


Most likely they can learn to avoid things as well as anticipate
getting food from them. Amusingly, Goo can understand that animals
feel fear and anger, but can't understand that they also feel pride,
anticipation and disappointment. It's amusing, but in an almost pitiable
way.

'Fear' and 'anger' are among the most primal of emotions, present even
in most lower lifeforms. These help ensure survival by allowing the
organism to either flee danger, or fight off threats to its food and
territory. 'Anticipation' is not an emotion; it's the condition of
merely having knowledge of an upcoming event, and acting on it. As for
'pride', that's a far more complex emotion which involves feeling
pleasure from knowing that you acquired, accomplished or succeeded at
something - which you definitely won't find in a fish. The closest
instinct you can find to that in a fish is simply territoriality and
aggression. As for 'disappointment', that's also a complex mammalian
emotion involving a feeling of dissatisfaction that results when one's
expectations are not realized. Again, I doubt a fish can feel that; if
it sees and tries to obtain food or a mate and it fails to do so, they
don't have the capacity to think about their loss - they just keep
trying and keep going about the business of survival.

- Logic316

That's probably the case with fish, but some animals do experience
disappointment even if fish don't. This is another area of Goo's extreme
ignorance. Here are a couple of his classic quotes:
__________________________________________________ _______
From: Rudy Canoza
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 15:48:32 GMT

Animals do not experience pride or disappointment. Period.
[...]
No animals anticipate.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
His ignorance is so pure, that he doesn't even consider the possibility
that some animals are capable of experiencing things that other
animals are not capable of. That is very shallow "thinking", and in
many ways very primitive and animal like imo.