"Tim J." wrote



You're, of course, assuming that Bush IS a conservative,

Actually, no. I think I'm far more conservative than Bush in many areas,
especially fiscal responsibility. BUT, Bush/Rove do have the adman repeat
the mantra style down and that is what I cited when using the phrase
"Bush-like"

Sidenote:
I often wonder what 'conservative' now means ... I live within my budget,
( my only debt is what remains on my mortgage ). If I want something I
can't afford I look for ways to make the money BEFORE I buy. If I must buy
something I can't afford ( emergency ) I instantly look for ways to increase
my income, maybe go back to work. I am 'liberal.'

Most of the people that I deal with are younger than me, Yuppies or 'old
money,' Republican voters and call themselves 'conservative.' A
tremendously high percentage are in debt up past their ears, measure their
own worth ONLY by what they own ( it's the only thing they ever mention
about themselves, so I'm forced to think it is their only self measure),
think deficit and debt doesn't really matter, show ZERO real interest in
what the world will be like after they are gone and want to use up as much
as they possibly can while here. They are 'conservatives' ..... just what
is you guys 'conserve'?? G


Yeah, once he's told what to believe. ;-)


Possibly true, humans are all subject to human nature. But, at least at
the level of social issues, I'd bet 15 to one on most 'liberals' at least
trying to listen to the views of others over most 'social conservatives'
But, this roffian zoo shows that few on either side listen past hearing
something they think they can argue with ... I point that out because it
really is on the same thread as 'sound bite culture' ... communication, the
act of honestly trying to share and understand other's ideas, even if the
belief in them is not shared, is dying fast over all our culture. I think
this is largely because of TV and it's effect on HOW we think, not what we
think....i.e. sound bite grab em in 10 seconds cause that is all they can
handle, thinking.




Talk about yer oversimplification! Hoo boy.
--

Again my point was about the effect of 'admen' and 'sound bite culture' on
political outcomes .... I don't get the impression that is what you are
responding to G As an experiment, in your own mind, try to formulate
'sound bite' messages for both sides of one issue ... stem sell research
using the little 4 cell 'embryos' produced as part of some infertility
treatments. Note how easy ( regardless of your true belief, that is NOT the
subject, sound bite advertizing is the subject ) it is to conjure up a few
words and 'inspiring' images to support the side that believes those four
cells are 'a human.' Note how difficult it is to present a QUICK argument
for research of unknown outcome, demanding a degree of ethical care, but in
the long term very likely producing great improvements for humans that have
actually grown past 4 cells and have brains and families and friends and are
more than just DNA, are actually humans i.e. self aware social animals.

Again, MY issue here is not the stem cell issue, itself, rather the
suitablity of the various 'sides' for adman tactics in our culture.

Bush is Pres not because of his actual personal quality. Rather an adman
found him and made him the neocon product spokesman. That is my point, and
I believe I'm right ... I will try to listen to opposite opinions, but admit
that I already have thought about this a lot and believe that Bush was
choosen BECAUSE he was a very common person, not too bright, easy to
manipulate, eager to be a 'true believer,' had lots of money, a 'good
family political name' and just the right amount of 'good looks' ..enough to
present well on TV but not so much as to leave Clyde in Tulsa feeling
inferior.