On 9 Mar 2006 08:06:07 -0800, "rb608" wrote:

Here's the thing. If you intend to downplay the significance of one
isolated Abramoff sentence by sarcastically pretending that's all
there is to the scandal, you're simply being dishonest.

Here's another thing. I intended to make fun of RW and Vanity Fair and
the stupidity of using the such as an "AHA!"

RW's point, I believe, is that our president, George W. Bush lied when he
said he didn't know Abramoff.

And that's why there's chocolate and vanilla - I believe RW's point is
under his hat. And if the claim is that Bush actually _knew_ Abramoff
or anyone else on the basis of a few exchanged pleasantries, then Bush
"knows" thousands of people from all over the world.

For just a moment, forget the discussion is of Bush and Abramoff. I
won't speak for you, but there have been hundreds of people over the
years that I've exchanged little bits of conversation with, and many on
more than one occasion; for example, I regularly get gas at a particular
station and chit-chat with the manager if he's there. For the life of
me, I can't think of his name, and am not 100% sure I've ever known it,
but he has at least two kids, a boy and girl, and got divorced last
year. Other than that, I can't really think of anything else I _know_
about him. Anybody like that in your life? Either way, in your
opinion, do I "know" him? And if someone asked me if I know "John Doe"
or whatever his name is (i.e., by name), I would say, perfectly
honestly, "No." Would you accuse me of being a liar? If they then
asked me what my connection might be to the manager at the service
station, I would most likely say none because I don't know him. Would
you accuse me of being a liar?

Now I know that presidents who lie to
us are nothing new, but the right's hypocritical denial of GWB's
lies is a bit hard to swallow.

The Abramoff corruption scandal of influence peddling in the Republican
party cannot be dismissed by a little snarky humor,

Um, I spend a lot of my time in LA, TX, and MS and have had family ties
here for generations...if you think this is REAL corruption, you don't
know jack...oh, sure, it's a bunch of punks with their hands in the
cookie jar, alright, but so far, it ain't real, **** 'em all, downhome
_corruption_. Abramoff is capable of it, but with few exceptions, the
pols involved just don't have the stones to get REALLY
nasty-crooked-dirty.

especially when it clearly reaches the Oval Office.
Bush said he didn't know the guy.
That is a bold-faced lie. There is more than one instance of friendly
conversation between him and Bush, there are photographs of them
together at events that go well beyond mere photo ops, and there's no
doubt that Abramoff was selling access to the President either directly
or through Rove.

And you know all of this how? You've stated a lot of things as facts
that might not be as cut and dried as you might think. And do you
really think that Bush would risk what he'd be risking to sell (or even
allow to be sold) access to the Oval Office using a crooked little punk
like Abramoff as the broker and do so on a few ****ant Indian bingo
games or some cruise ship BS? And for money he doesn't even need.

To guys like Abramoff and Rove (yeah, IMO, at the end of the day, he's a
little ****ant punk, too), a coupla hundred thou might be real big
money, but to Bush, Cheney, etc., it wouldn't even be a week's interest
on real money. And until something more is _known_, I don't see
Abramoff as having been any more truly "known" to Bush or the Oval
Office than the service station guy whose name I can't remember...

While Clinton may have sold the Lincoln bedroom,
George Bush is selling the Oval Office. Oh yeah, and he's lying
about it.

As I've said on many occasions, I understand and share many political
positions of my Republican friends and acquaintances. What I cannot
understand is why they are so willing to deny the reality that George
W. Bush is a liar.

Again, just because you think it is reality doesn't make it so, even if
you honestly believe it with all your heart and soul.

TC,
R