wrote in message
For just a moment, forget the discussion is of Bush and Abramoff. I
won't speak for you, but there have been hundreds of people over the
years that I've exchanged little bits of conversation with, and many on
more than one occasion; for example, I regularly get gas at a particular
station and chit-chat with the manager if he's there.

Oh puhleese. This is nothing but a straw man. The President is *not* the
manager of a gas station, and access to the White House and his company is
anything but casual chit chat. Nobody gets in that building or near him
without proper authorization. You must be joking with that analogy. He's
not the manager of a gas station, he's the CEO of the largest entity on
earth, and it's ridiculous to assert that he would not "know" a person who
delivers millions of dollars to his firm or not know his name. Your analogy
is utter bull**** and nothing more than framing the question inaccurately.

Other than that, I can't really think of anything else I _know_
about him. Anybody like that in your life?

Anecdotally, yes; but anecdotes selected to fit pre-established conclusion
are hardly persuasive. As a matter of fact, I was once a field sales rep
for a manufacturing company. I had one particular customer with whom I
became friendly. His name was Dave D. In the course of several years, I
met him and/or spoke with him probably ten times or less; but we connected
well and I knew he was married, had kids, and played ice hockey. Even now,
though I haven't seen or spoken to him in more than ten years, if you asked
me if I knew Dave D., I'd have to say yes.

Would you accuse me of being a liar?

In your particular case, I'd say "liar" might be too strong; but I would say
you were less than honest. In Bush's case, I'd call him a liar.

Um, I spend a lot of my time in LA, TX, and MS and have had family ties
here for generations...if you think this is REAL corruption, you don't
know jack...

Oh, well that makes it okay then.

oh, sure, it's a bunch of punks with their hands in the
cookie jar, alright, but so far, it ain't real, **** 'em all, downhome
_corruption_. Abramoff is capable of it, but with few exceptions, the
pols involved just don't have the stones to get REALLY
nasty-crooked-dirty.

I'd postulate that bribing Congresspeople to benefit special interest
clients and fundamentally corrupting the democratic process is about as
nasty-crooked-dirty as it gets. Trying to paint it as a minor little
indiscretion is just putting lipstick on a pig.

And you know all of this how?

Oh, I don't know; it migh have been the Presidential press conferences and
FBI testimony. Oh yeah, and the occasional felony indictment. That sort of
thing. Nothing you'd consider authoritative.

And do you
really think that Bush would risk what he'd be risking to sell (or even
allow to be sold) access to the Oval Office using a crooked little punk
like Abramoff as the broker and do so on a few ****ant Indian bingo
games or some cruise ship BS? And for money he doesn't even need.

Yes, I do think so. Again, you try to downplay a multi-million-dollar
Indian gaming industry as "****ant Indian bingo games". Bull****. There is
serious money involved and serious political influence for sale. To portray
it as otherwise is dishonesty.

To guys like Abramoff and Rove (yeah, IMO, at the end of the day, he's a
little ****ant punk, too), a coupla hundred thou might be real big
money, but to Bush, Cheney, etc., it wouldn't even be a week's interest
on real money.

If it were simply about Bush or Cheney's personal fortunes, I'd agree; but
you know damned well it's not. It's about control of US policies and
pursestrings. It's about abusing the public trust to enrich supporters.
It's about billions and billions of taxpayer dollars to connected cronies;
and that's worth a whole lot more than a "coupla hundred thou".

Again, just because you think it is reality doesn't make it so, even if
you honestly believe it with all your heart and soul.

I do not operate on heart and soul. I believe it because the known facts
support it.

Joe F.