"GaryM" wrote in message
2.112...
"riverman" wrote in
oups.com:

I came across that video of an Apache helicopter shooting of three
people in a field (google under 'apache killing video'), and for
the past two weeks I have felt a bit nauseus. It was a very
contentious issue, and made the online rounds several years ago,
but AFAIK it was never definitively proven that these guys were
doing anything wrong. Some people insisted such strange
assertations as "if they were innocent, why were they in a field
at night?" or "if they were innocent, why was that one person
running?" Being in a field at night, or running don't seem to me
to be offenses punishable by death, and people's willingness to
accept that 'they were killed, therefore they must be guilty of
something' makes me deeply ashamed

I recall that video. It troubled me too for days. The 50mm cannon
rounds left absolutely nothing behind but the green heat signature
of remains. Those guys were acting very suspicious, as you mention,
and I had read they were 1/4 of mile from a US Army checkpoint. I was
hoping you had found an explanation, but I guess we'll never know.

I don't know what 'suspicious' means, and I most definately did not say they
were acting so. They were acting in a manner that was not clear what they
were doing, but I've seen enough things in other cultures and places to not
label them 'suspicious' without reason to be suspect. Its like an inkblot:
different people see different things. The person running across the field
seemed a bit out of place, but then again I have worked with people who were
very agressive when they worked. If that person was putting something in a
field that the tractor needed when it arrived, then I could easily imagine
them being a 'go getter' who sprinted out to the field and back; not
something deserving of being killed over. Likewise, as they were unwrapping
the thing the moment they were being killed, they had their head down beside
the engine of a running tractor. I think it is completely likely that they
never heard or saw the tractor driver being shot, and were just hustling,
doing their job. Again, this is only supposition, but similarly so is the
assumption that they were doing something 'suspicious'. The difference is,
my supposition didn't lead to them being killed by a hovering Apache.


Putting aside the controversey, it is interesting to see how the
decision is made to kill them, and how the gunner eventually gets
the go code. It was not a fait accompli, nor could you detect any
wink-winkness in the dialogue.

No, I agree. But I think the part of the coversation where the controller
says "are you sure its a weapon" and the pilots reply: "Absolutely Positive"
sealed their fate, but I was anything but 'absolutely positive' and fail to
understand how the pilot could be so sure. I deeply crave to know that the
pilot was privvy to some info that I don't have. Or at least that ground
troops later verified that he was correct.

For me, this video does not rank
beside the British troops who made the random shoot-up video to Elvis
music that you mention.

What do you mean: its worse, or its not as bad?


An interesting part of the video is the when the gunner opens fire,
but is on 'manual'. The gunship is a few miles away I think, and he
misses, causing one of the targets to "dance". How could the targets
not know they were being shot at?

Trust me on this: I have been in the vicinity of live machinegun fire. When
you hear it, you skip; its involuntary. In Congo, during the coup, whenever
the gunfire went off, even inside the house and knowing full well that I was
not being targeted, I reacted pretty much exactly like that, then giggled it
off. Their reaction was precisely what I'd expect for someone who thought
they were NOT being shot at. If they thought they were the target and were
familiar with gunfire, they would have instantly scattered.

Some poster pointed out that the tractor driver gave the runner a little
peck on the cheek. I think the skipper was a woman. In fact, the scenario I
can't get out of my head, that fits the image, is this:

A farmer is plowing a field, his field hand is hanging out by the truck, and
the farmer's wife or daughter is bringing something out to the tractor. She
meets up with the field hand, they chat a bit, and she says 'just a sec, I
need to drop this by the field for Abdul." She's one of those 'go get it'
workers, so she sprints to the field, drops the package, and sprints back to
casually resume her converstation. Meanwhile, the fieldhand strolls over and
drops off what looks like a bottle of water. They return to the truck and
chat a bit more (having no idea that an Apache pilot is watching). They know
the chopper is there, glance up at it, and say something like "geez, its
strange having those Americans all over the place, but at least they're here
to make some changes. I hope it doesn't take long." Then, the tractor
arrives, she sprints over to see Abdul, and the sound of the chopper firing
makes her skip a step in suprise. She shakes it off, not ever imagining she
was the target. The farmer pecks her on the cheek, hops off the tractor, and
starts walking over to his fieldhand to take a break while she preps
whatever she brought. Suddenly, out of the blue, he is blown to bits, which
shocks the everloving **** out of the field hand who dives under the truck.
The woman doesn't hear a thing, with her head down by the running tractor
engine, and with her get-go attitude, she's unwrapping whatever thing she
brought. Then she gets blown to ****, too.

Meanwhile, the fieldhand cannot believe or understand what is happening. He
is panicking, trying to hide behind the truck and falls down, where he is
spotted. A second later, the truck explodes in front of him, stunning,
injuring and shellshocking him. Severely wounded, he rolls out into the
field, where he is also blown to death.


I suppose that with no gunfire
audible or rotar sound they must have written off the thuds of
bullets as something else. The gunner says, "****! Going to auto!",
or something like that. And of course doesn't miss again.

I remember thinking it was just like a video game with a cheat bot
enabled.

I think that's precisely the impression that modern weaponry is designed to
make.

--riverman
If anyone knows more about this video.....FACTS, not suppositions, I need to
hear them.