"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:42:32 -0500, "Opus--Mark H. Bowen"
wrote:

I can only suppose that you wouldn't have problem with the so-called
enemies
of the US torturing our troops at will as well. I mean it could save the
lives of our enemies troops.

What are you talking about, nitwit. They ARE torturing our troops,
and not for info, but just for the pleasure of it. Where the hell
have you been for the past few years? I know you live in a backward
town in backward section of a great state, but surely they have tv,
radio, newspapers.


Imagine that? You're not one who holds with the ideals of liberal democracy
are you. Now I know that you will associate the word "liberal" with
political ideology, but that ain't got nothin' to do with what I am alluding
to. I mean you don't really abide with the precepts of constitutionalism, do
ya Davie?

Begin Quotes**
In Furman v. Georgia (1972), Justice Brennan wrote, "There are, then, four
principles by which we may determine whether a particular punishment is
'cruel and unusual'."

a.. The "essential predicate" is "that a punishment must not by its
severity be degrading to human dignity," especially torture.
b.. "A severe punishment that is obviously inflicted in wholly arbitrary
fashion."
c.. "A severe punishment that is clearly and totally rejected throughout
society."
d.. "A severe punishment that is patently unnecessary."
Because it is the needless infliction of pain, torture is prohibited by the
Eighth Amendment--

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_...s_Constitution)

The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly
in 1984 and entered into force on June 26, 1987.

It defines torture as any act by which:
severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental; is intentionally
inflicted on a person; for such purposes as:

a.. obtaining from him/her or a third person information or a confession
b.. punishing him/her for an act s/he or a third person has committed or
is suspected of having committed
c.. intimidating or coercing him/her or a third person
d.. or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind;
when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with
the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in
an official capacity.*

*Amnesty International believes that acts of violence by private individuals
constitute torture when they are of the nature and severity envisaged by the
concept of torture in international standards and when the state has failed
to fulfill its obligation to provide effective protection against such acts
of
violence. --(http://www.amnestyusa.org/Reports_St...&n2=38&n3=1052)



"Lt. Col. V. Stuart Couch, a former Guantanamo Bay prosecutor and appellate
judge of the Navy-Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals, was scheduled to
appear before a House subcommittee today to testify about the use of
waterboarding and the legality of torture and other interrogation
techniques."

"In a March 31 Wall Street Journal story, Couch had said he had refused to
prosecute a suspected terrorist because he believed the evidence had been
tainted by torture."

""Waterboarding is torture, period," Malcolm Wrightson Nance, a former Navy
instructor of prisoner of war and terrorist hostage survival programs, said.
"I believe that we must reject the use of the waterboard for prisoners and
captives and cleanse this stain from our national honor.""
(http://wcbstv.com/national/hearing.w....2.563973.html)

End Quotes**

My neice's son was killed there last year. He was killed outright
while taking down a couple of al qaeda. His two friends were not so
lucky. They were captured and tortured to death.

Truly sad. But that does not mean that we, as a nation, should condone acts
of torture.

Many people, nations, and ideologies condone many different things that we,
as a nation, abhor and have made laws against, because we are a nation of
laws and recognize that vengeance is not justice.

Waterboarding causes NO pain, leaves NO mark, draws NO blood. OTOH,
cutting off the genitals and heads of our GI's DOES.

Torture is not merely defined by PAIN, it is also defined by SUFFERING,
whether physical/mental. (see quote from above)

You're a fool, Mark. You can get all the formal education you desire,
but you will remain a fool and a looser until the day you die.

I may very well be a fool, but I have the backing of people in the military,
who have been tortured, to support my argument. You, OTOH, have your hatred
to back your rantings.

My formal education has nothing to do with my beliefs concerning torture or
any other human rights, for that matter. I base my beliefs on morality and
decency. While as an agnostic, I *might* someday burn in hell. You certainly
will burn in hell (supposing of course that Christ ever existed), because
you are morally bankrupt and an anathema to Christ.

As long as I don't ever become what you are, I can accept being a loser in
your jaundiced eyes.

Op

Davie