On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:15:43 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
There ain't enough help,
R

you know as well as I that the media lives for the ongoing controversy.
Still, Hill is running out of cash on hand, the delegate count didn't move
far, so my prediction of her demise in a month and a half still holds. BTW,
my glowing assessment of Obama's November chances is based on his political
organization, which is pretty darned good for a 'political newcomer'. I
would have never thought he would have been anything but a fleeting
annoyance for Clinton at the outset.
Anyhoo, the numbers over people sitting it out, or voting for McCain are
collected in the heat of the battle. Those won't hold at those levels long
term. Further, the GOP has a serious pair of concerns from:
1. Conservative Christians sitting on their hands and wallets during this
election
2. Bob Barr running as the Libertarian nominee.

I'd offer that "heat of battle" isn't quite the factor in the primary as
you seem to offer. I think, even if the worst numbers are skewed (for
whatever reason - why I posted the middling CNN numbers), that it shows
the real polarized divide among the Dems, which reflects a similar
divide in the US. It's not just that folks are for their choice, they
are _against_ others, and with a vehemency fairly new for such a large
swath of US. IOW, sure, in the past, the most "liberal" were against
the most "conservative" and vice-versa, but this is something new and
different, IMO. Partly due to the avalanche of info, via the 'net,
youtube, cable, etc. versus the past where it was 30 min. of news in the
evening and a smattering of local newspaper coverage, even for those in
major urban areas, I'm sure, but an extreme polarization, nonetheless.

IAC, I don't see either of your "concerns" as all that important as yet,
if ever. The first is mooted, IMO, by what will be their alternatives -
support McCain or risk Obama or Hillary. If it were a couple of
conservative Southern Dems - a Edwards-Lieberman ticket (yeah, yeah) -
it might be more of a concern for McCain, but not with either of these
two. As to Barr, nobody, including Barr, thinks he has the slightest
chance in hell, and the GOP-skewed voters tend to be less, um,
pie-in-the-sky protest voters than Dem-skewed voters (ala Nader voters).

Anyone who has any real interest in objectivity need do no more than
look over Obama's own recent quotes, often about himself and his
campaign, to see he's just another pol interesting in winning first and
foremost. I'll grant the possibility that he may have not started out
that way - I doubt it, but anything is possible and maintaining that he
was once an idealist isn't wildly ridiculous. But it's not relevant to
what he is _now_, and attempting to maintain that he isn't just another
(novice) pol IS ridiculous.

...and at 84 goddamned years old, JC not only had the stones to go,
damned the consequences, but might actually broker some sort of peace,

agreed with your observation about Mr.Carter. I always thought he had the
most personal integrity of any Presidential candidate I have thus far voted
for.

Think Ford and Carter, above.

I don't know as I would characterize Obama as a self-absorbed asshole,
and what he has done in running vs. the Hilldebeast and her machine, not to
mention as a black man running for President in a serious fashion(as opposed
to Jesse Jackson, or (shudder!) Rev. Al) shows a sturdy set of balls on his
part.

Or hubris...

I wouldn't surprise me to see proof that he thought he'd run just strong
enough to assure Hillary would pick him as Veep, the, er, ball(s) got
rolling, and he said, "Hey, you know, I can win this thing myself..."
Now, his supporters might say, "Well, so? What's wrong with that?" And
my answer would be that there isn't anything "wrong" with it, but it
clearly shows he is just another calculating pol and that he himself
didn't think he was the guy until the wind shifted his way.

And that's one of the main points - he may win, but anyone who tells
themselves he's something "special," "the real deal" (a little too much
"West Wing"...), or is gonna bring about, um, peace, love, and
understanding might shoulda supported Elvis Costello for POTUS...

TC,
R
Tom